 Hi, I'm Mark and welcome to the special episode of the service design show. In this episode, you're going to hear about some of the challenges in-house service designers face and get some practical advice to be successful when you're an in-house service designer. So there's no denying that in-house service design is growing fast, even in these times. More and more organizations are building internal design capabilities and that means that more and more people are becoming an in-house service designer. Well, that brings some interesting challenges along in-house service design is quite different from doing service design as an agency, as an external consultancy. When you're in-house often, you're still a team of one where everybody is looking up to you to be the expert. But when you have no peers around you to benchmark, if you're doing it right, who knows, it might feel a little bit lonely. So to give these in-house service designers an opportunity to meet other peers in other organizations and talk about the challenges they face in doing in-house service design, I set up a community called the Campfire. And in this episode, you're going to hear the stories of James, Annem, Mike, Kate, Hayden and Bobby, who are all in-house service designers and they're going to share with you some of the challenges they face and give you some practical advice on how to be more successful as an in-house service designer. If you're listening to this and thinking, I'm an in-house service designer as well, and I would love to meet some of the peers in other organizations. Well, I've got good news. The registration for the third Campfire group has just opened and you can read about the application process on servicedesignshow.com. Campfire, there is quite a strict application process as there's just a spot for eight people in the group. So head over to servicedesignshow.com slash Campfire, read about the application process and who knows, you might be featured in the next Campfire episode. But for now, just sit back, relax and enjoy the tips and stories from James, Hayden, Mike, Kate, Bobby and Adam. That's the brief introduction round to hear who is in the virtual room here. Mike, can I start with you? Yeah, my name is Mike Lovis. I'm the director of design and innovation at Smart Cancer Care, which is the innovation program at Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto, Canada. All right, James. Hello, I'm James Field. I'm service design lead at Focus and Ventures, which is a part of Focus and Enterprises. And we're moving on to Kate. I am Kate Moon, service designer on the bridge team in IBM. We have Hayden on the call. Hi, I'm Hayden, and I am a service designer with the experience design team at NCR. And finally, Bobby. Hi, I'm Bobby. I'm a principal service designer at Farmers. And, Bobby, you have the most challenging connection today with your internet, but we'll be all right. And I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you the first question. Like, what made you interested in signing up for these campfire sessions? Honestly, I felt like a lone wolf in the service design space. And I was super curious about, you know, what other service designers were up against and just, yeah, just curious about, you know, what other service designers were interested in and their challenges and the things that they've gone through. And I hear that a lot. And I already forgot somebody who's also on the call, Adam. So, Adam, already the question also to you, who are you and what made you join the campfires? Hi, Mark. So, yeah, I'm Adam. Until recently, I was leading the service design team at Welling Airlines. I'm now the experienced director of many one with the London office. And, yeah, why did I want to join? So, when I was at Welling, I had a lot of interesting experiences trying to lead the team of service designers in a very large, wide classes, traditional organization. And I had a lot of questions about what I was doing and whether we were taking the right approaches, et cetera. And I was always wanting to reach out to other service designers who were in similar positions to see if it was just me or it's just our team or if it was something specific when it came to designers working in-house. And that's when I stumbled across the campfires. And, yeah, just thought it was an awesome opportunity to try and speak to some peers. James, how is it for you as in meeting other service designers? Do you have that opportunity in-house or how do you usually meet other peers? Yeah, it's a great opportunity really to work with other service designers in similar positions. I'm also first service on role in the company, so it's really great to get that comparison point with others, you know, see what they encounter, similar challenges and so on. Typically, I go to service line events. So, service line network is really strong, Atlanta, where we're based. So, we do a lot of sharing there, but it's really nice to sit and take the time and depth to discuss some of these topics. Yeah, and then these days it's a bit harder to go to local events and chapters. So, we're moving into this space. Kate, you've been part of all four sessions for campfires. You've listened to the stories. I'm curious, what do you feel are maybe let's stick to one. What is the biggest challenge that you've heard in-house service designers face? The big one that we talked about is the challenge of showing value kind of in the short term to prove, kind of show what you do to the organization when a lot of the value that is delivered through service design, I think especially in enterprise is pretty longitudinal in long term. So, trying to strike that balance between, you know, proving that you're doing something effective today when the outcomes aren't necessarily seen for months, if not longer. Yeah, yeah. Anything to add to that, Mike? What do you feel is a big in-house challenge? Yeah, for us in healthcare, I feel like there is a lot of interest and emphasis on doing research. And so, there's already a big body of research around, let's say, patient experience. And so, for me, I feel like justifying spending time to do upfront qualitative research is a hurdle. Because it feels like it's already been done. So, that's another one. Yeah, yeah. So, measuring value and showing progress, getting time and resources to do research. Anything to add to that, Hayden? What have you heard so far? I'd definitely echo all of that. Another theme that came up that I had been reflecting on in some of my responses recently is also just keeping design alive. So, a lot of us will put so much time and effort into realizing an idea, creating a brief, you know, working through the co-creation. And then, you hand it off sometimes. And then, I remember Joseph was talking about even like lots of meetings where things feel like, well, yeah, things feel like they may not live on past. And I've faced that problem and I've heard that in others too. Just the managing of design, in addition to the awareness and the value demonstration, there's a lot to it for sure. Yeah, we heard that, of course, when you're at an agency or consultancy, you do the project and you hand it off and you hope that it lives on. But that's also a challenge in the house. Because often in-house, you're just an in-house agency. At least, it feels that way. At least, that's what I've been hearing from your stories, right? Yes. What can we add to this? Maybe, Hayden, if we start with you, what do you feel is your biggest learning so far from these campfires? So, yeah, in my thesis, I heard this too and I didn't quite realize it because I was still a student. But just how new design is, how new service design is, design thinking, having a seat at the table is still a very new phenomenon. A lot of people don't know what we do. A lot of people don't know the value that we bring. And just realizing that through all the stories, like, I'm the first service designer, we're the one team, I'm the whatever, like just there's still a lot ahead of us, which is great. It's a great opportunity and there's a lot of responsibility and mindfulness that comes with that as well about being that exemplar of service design in these organizations. So, that was a learning for me. It's just that commonality. Bobby, what was your takeaway from this? What will you remember from these campfires in the year of time? I absolutely loved. I think it was Adam that said it was James and Adam that had mentioned, you know, providing guidance in a subconscious way. And I absolutely loved that. It's not brute force. I think when you're a consultant, you get to come in and it's very rigorous and speed and momentum is important. And I'm not saying that's not important when you go in-house, but there's this beautiful way of guiding in a subconscious way that like I absolutely loved from these sessions. Kate, can you add anything to that? What what is the biggest takeaway you got out of this? Yeah, so I think to kind of build on what Bobby was saying, I think understanding what your stakeholders care about and are trying to achieve really empowers you to do that kind of guidance. If they trust you and understand that you're looking out for their best interest, you're kind of doing it in this new way that they maybe don't understand. But you're going in the same direction and trying to achieve the same goal, I think is very important and seems to be a indicator of success or a precursor. I think we dropped the term organizational empathy, something like that. Right. That's that was also a common theme. Adam, what would you say is your biggest piece of advice for other in-house service designers or people thinking of going in-house? Good question. I think do your homework. What I mean by that is many things, I guess. Do your homework in terms of the organization. So before you accept that role, you know, really dig into what is the organization about? What is the role about? Is it what you really think it is? Is it it's advertised in one way? Is there any way of finding out if it's really going to be that way? And then on top of that, do your homework in terms of especially if you haven't worked in house before, what's this transition going to look like? What does it look like working in an organization? What do you need to expect in terms of the culture, in terms of the politics, et cetera? There's some great resources out there that you can dig into. There's there's various blogs. There's podcasts. There's a great podcast. It's I think it's called Talking About Organizations, which is all about digging into how organizations work. So really do your homework in terms of those areas and that will set you up quite well. And do you have one suggestion on how to do the homework up front before you get in? What what do you wish you would have known? I'd maybe have looked back at the interview process and structured my questions a little bit different. I'd have maybe put the person on the spot a bit more and tried to really dig into the offer that they're making a little bit. I'm not an expert at the interview process, so to speak. But yeah, I'd have maybe structured my questions a little bit differently. And then there's plenty of websites out there, like Glassdoor, et cetera, that you can dig into that gives you a really clear idea of what's this organization like that I'm getting into. It's not that it's put you off, but at least it prepares you. Yeah, got it. James, what would your advice be? I think it's similar to what we've heard there. It's really twofold that you when you first come in is about having that patience to develop relationships, understand the challenge and then gain trust. But then also having the initiative as well to take the lead. You know, you're coming in as an expert. So it's about you deciding what's important in your process, not getting hung up on doing things right and just having the courage, I guess, to be a leader. And that that's kind of the theme I've heard. Speaking to everyone on this call, everyone's very courageous in kind of going into the unknown and taking things forward. We have no choice, right? I think you have to be courageous and you have to be a bit naive. Isn't the right word, but you have to trust the future. You have to be hopeful about the future and trust the things will be all right, right? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you have to trust it and make it happen at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a good thing. Bobby, what would your advice be for future or existing in our service designers? I think I cannot say this more enough. Patience, really, really having the patience to all the things that we learned when it comes to design thinking and human-centered design and empathy and all of that. Like, do not forget to apply that to your family in-house. You know, taking the literally using those methods when you get frustrated, when you don't understand, apply it in-house and it does wonders. What makes you impatient? I guess just expectations. Expectations that it should be one way, you know, business should be one way and we should already know this or we should be working faster or some really, I know better, but for some reason when you are working, you just, I think it's the expectations. Expectations that it should be one way and it's not. Mike, did I ask you this question already? No, I don't think so, right? What is your piece of advice for in-house service designers? Yeah, I think I'd echo a lot of the same things and it's okay kind of morphing off of that. I think it's okay to drop the lingo around service design and really adopt the voice and the language that's used in the organization and in the industry that you happen to be in to provide impact. In keeping the principles, keeping the ideal, it's keeping the methods in there, but you can hide it under existing methods and hide it under existing language to make sure that you can have the impact as opposed to waving the flag of service design. That's not the goal, I don't think. It's about having impact on the org level. Yeah and I think that's also a theme that has come up a lot that it's easier if we sort of find empathy with the people we're designing for rather than trying to get them into our space in our world that takes much more effort and they might get interested at some point but it's easier to start off by inviting yourself into their context, right? Yeah, definitely. Kate, anything to add? What piece of advice would you give knowing what you know now? I think Bobby kind of touched on it around the expectations but it's just get used to being uncomfortable, right? It's part of the process you were brought in to bring some change to the organization and change is an uncomfortable process. You'll be kind of trying to convince people to do things in a new way that they may not feel comfortable with and once I let go of that expectation of oh it should be this way and just got used to like okay I'm going to be uncomfortable and that's how it goes and we just roll with it and acceptance really helps. What happened in your situation? Was there a tipping point where you could let it go? I think what happened is I learned through you know on that idea of proving value quickly I had a project that didn't show immediately the value but then like a year later did so stakeholders are initially kind of like well what is this? And then a year later the value is realized and it's like oh okay so for that year between the delivery and the outcome it was just kind of well what did you even do? So you have to stick around long enough? You do, yeah. You have to set it out, yeah. And that's a really uncomfortable position to be in because you don't know when it will happen, right? When the value will come and if it will come. You just got to trust that it does. Yeah, yeah. Hayden, anything to add to this? No, just all my thoughts, sir. Come on, I'm sure you do. Well, nothing original I should say. Everyone else has definitely echoed all of what I had. You know vetting your employer is really important to know. Peel behind the shiny marketing veneer and really try to understand what this company is. The maturity of design, build alliances, be really mindful of how you grow service design. I like Mike's call to, you can have service design in your head. Broadcast the language that speaks in the way that resonates with the organization that speaks to the currencies that are important. And I know that we had that problem too where we kind of came out like the service design, the big deal and people just got overwhelmed with the language and it wasn't really resonating. And the last thing is just grit, yeah. Definitely having the grit to see it through the patients. Mark, you used the analogy of exercise. I've always thought like fertilizer, you know like we're scattering fertilizer all over the soil and a flower may pop up next season. And that's kind of the benefit, but it's hard to say like to have an ROI specific like a JIRA ticket that was associated with that or whatever. It's challenging, especially at an organization that really is very engineering numbers focused. Yeah. And that's I think the big challenge a lot of us are in that this approach goes against how organizations are organized and measured and how value is measured. So I think that's the discrepancy and the gap that we sort of feel on where the tension is. Really briefly, Hayden, what will you remember from these campfire sessions in a year time? This is going to designer-y touchy-feely. I'm going to feel connected. Whenever like I'm sick or going through a hard time, it always is comforting knowing that others are feeling or experiencing what I'm experiencing. And that definitely was an epiphany for me is through this campfire, knowing that we're all having a common struggle and I have a community that I can bounce ideas off of and share my thoughts with. Yeah. We are all dealing with the same shit. Bobby, what will you remember in a year? We're still there, Bobby? Yeah, you're here. Sorry, guys. I think it's similar to what Hayden said. It's like I came in feeling like alone. For some reason I always feel like a lone wolf in the service design space and I've learned so much from you guys that I don't feel that way. I don't feel so new. It's not necessarily such a new thing. You guys have been in it. There's plenty of people that have gone through these challenges. Feeling connected like Hayden said, feeling like I kind of had a superpower team as I go through some of my challenges and stuff. It's a sacred space. So yeah, just feeling connected to you guys. And Mike, is there anything else you're going to remember in a year? Time maybe an insight or a lesson or is it the group? Yeah, I think more than a lesson. Probably just remembering that there is this group of kindred spirits that came together and dedicated spending an hour every week to come and chat in a collective quest or drive towards having human-centered change within different organizations, different industries from all over the world. I think, yeah, that's what I'll remember. Yeah, and it's nice that I think these campfires are also quite international. This one, I don't know how many countries we had here, three or four, but that's also a good angle and perspective to take that service design. It is a global thing and it's happening everywhere. Kate, anything you'll remember in a year time? Definitely seconding the community. It's awesome to have this community. I'd also add just the importance of the environment and the support structures within the company in terms of leadership and where you are positioned in the company. I think should I ever move on to another role, that's something I'm going to interrogate really thoroughly to understand where do we fit in the organization because I think that has a lot of impact on your ability to deliver. Yeah, yeah. And becoming more aware and conscious of which questions you should ask, how important it is. It's the, well, yeah, it's the context in the environment that allows you to be impactful. Exactly. Adam, some questions to you? Yeah, I mean, I've got notes and pages and pages and notes in terms of the little takeaways and the little techniques, and the little nuggets, but I have to say it's like, it is. It's the camaraderie, it's the feeling like, oh, I'm not alone. You know? And especially what you just mentioned, Mark, about the fact that there's four or five countries involved here. There's times where in the past, I'm starting to thinking, is this just a cultural thing? Is it because I'm in a different country to where I originate from? No, it's just, it's a service design. It's an organization thing. It's just, it's reassuring. You know, we heard lots and lots of different, quite emotional stories, really deep stories from different people in the group. And it just shows you that, you know, this is tough, what we're doing. It's not easy. And the grit and the determination and the trust in the process, everybody has the same thing going on. So, yeah, it's reassurance, basically. Yeah. And it's good to know that, again, everybody has the same, has the same challenges. And it's when you're alone or a team of two or three within an organization, it's so hard to get that outside validation and to know that it's not you who's crazy, right? Yeah. James. That's crazy. Yeah. Oh. James, anything to add? What will you remember in a year time from the Scamfire? I think what's been striking is the similarity of all of our journeys. Although there are slight differences. We've all had the same kind of path and we're all the same on the same journey, but different stages. And what seems to stand out is the, the make or break is the network of supporters, allies, advocates within your organization. That seems to be where we've seen success and seen problems. So for me, it's about making sure I established that and where I'm at and continue to build and grow those relationships. Yeah. We've talked a lot about the importance of finding allies, finding partnerships, establishing that and seeing that as part of our work. So, yeah. Our official campfires, our initial campfires are over, but we're going to stay in touch for sure. A new campfire round is starting and I'll explain that in a little bit. Thanks all for now for sharing your stories, for being part of this, yeah, I don't know, program, whatever we want to call it. It was a pleasure to hear your stories. Thanks all. It's pretty clear to me that the conversation among the people in this campfire group definitely isn't over and it's going to continue in the foreseeable weeks and probably even months. If you're interested in joining the next campfire group, which is starting in January, head over to servicedesignshow.com slash campfire, read about the application process and make sure you submit your application before December 9th. That might sound far away, but yeah, we need to add all these things in the schedule so it will be over, it will be there before you know it and also we've got just eight spots and if those are filled, the deadline will be even sooner. So don't wait too long. Even if you're not an in-house service designer, I really hope you enjoyed these stories, got some useful information out of it. For now, all I have to say is keep making a positive impact and I'll catch you really soon in the next episode.