 Now, because everything we do is a two-way conversation, we've got a little Q&A. Once again, I'm Matt Mullowake, mat.blog, ma.tt, or you can tweet me at Photomat, and now we're going to open up the floor for questions or anything that y'all might want to opine on of what we just discussed. Also good opportunity for me to just repeat how amazed and proud I am at what we built over this past year. I also now understand why no one has touched the editor for a long time, turned it out as a little controversial, but we did it. And now we're on the other side of it, and we can talk about what's next. I think to ask we've got some mics up here on the left and right. So if you walk up, we can begin going to things. And we'll start on the right. Why don't you say your name, where you're from, or my right. Okay, okay. Your name, where you're from, and then whatever you'd like to ask. My name is John Parris, I'm from here in the U.S., South Carolina. Maybe hold it close so everyone stays there. All right, how's this? There we go. So my name's John Parris, I'm from here in South Carolina, U.S. First off, I wanted to thank you for pushing this to happen and putting significant financial resources behind it, because I know that's been pretty huge. I was wondering if you could speak to the role of themes, how this all may affect themes, as phase two is completed. The role of what? Themes. Of themes, yeah. Yeah, because historically, the 20 themes have been relatively simple, but there's a lot of themes in the ecosystem that do a lot more. And it seems like with phase two and beyond that, the way things are registered and managed are going to change to some degree, and how you think that may affect themes going forward. That's a good question, and thank you very much. Well, everything's going to change, and I think things will be one of the places we see this show at first. So there's no reason my old themes can't continue to work, but to show some of that maybe visual version, where what you see in the theme is lines up pretty closely with what you're able to edit within Gutenberg, we're going to need themes to add new support, just like back in the day, they might have added support for editor styles or widget areas or things like that. So what we're going to create in phase two is a way for themes to essentially opt in and say, hey, because really all the header and footers or sidebars are kind of like reusable content blocks. So here's where they are, and here's some sort of CSS and layout that shows where, if you're playing at Gutenberg, blocks and columns, where they should go. And so we're going to see, we've already got over 100 Gutenberg ready themes in 2019 kind of cheats a little by mostly being single column. So what you see on the back is kind of what you see on the front. Next is taking it where themes can actually register these additional areas, and you'll be able to have like a really elegant experience going from sort of the back into the front end and understanding what you're doing, how it affects, how it relates to things for all future themes. Now, this might mean, since all themes can be totally customizable, you can change the layouts, you can change the columns, you can change lots of things. I don't know if we need like 10 or 20,000 themes in the future. We might see that start to shift to more something like where there's a lower number of themes. I don't know how many, probably still hundreds though, because people like to write their own things and everything like that. But where a lot of the customization starts to move to really kind of verticals and allowing people head starts for their themes. So here's some starter content that you can modify. Here's like, if you are a Mexican restaurant, here's the starter that puts like the images and the color scheme and like things that might be typically something you might want if you're creating a website for that kind of business or person or anything like that. And I think that's where we're going to start to see a lot more of the kind of mass, tens of thousands of different things. And I think it's also interesting to start to think about how we could even expose and share those on WordPress.org. So keep an eye out for that as themes evolve. But I should also say, I'm not clairvoyant. So we create the frameworks and people use them in ways never could have hoped for or imagined. And so I am also curious to see what themes are going to do next. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, let's go over here. All right. I'm Nick Adams from WP Buffs. Had a question about just the transparency and the release of 5.0. There was some concern about the fact that 12 of the last 11 posts on wordpress.org slash blog all came from automatic employees. And there was just some concern that seemed of the transparency of how conversations around the release were made. So I was just wondering about what lessons have been learned that we can all apply as those who contribute as well about how we communicate going forward with 5.1 and beyond. Sure. Now, automatic tries to follow fire for the future. It's now a company of over 830 folks, which means that translates to about 40-plus full-time people working on WordPress core. It's working on work camps. It's working on a lot of things. So being one of the larger companies, it does appear to have an outsized presence. On one nice thing, though, that we did differently, this release that we've never done before is we had, actually, a pretty wide team of release leads. And I don't remember the exact percentage, but there were more 5.0 release leads that didn't work for automatic than there were total release leads and prior releases. So we did have some really vigorous discussion and lots of different viewpoints addressed. The other thing that I think everyone, regardless of what company they happen to work for, tries to bring to the release process, or the WordPress decision-making process, really, is gathering as much information as possible. And that might be objective data. I think we certainly read and I think we responded to almost every single review of Gutenberg, probably over 1,000 of them. We read Twitter. We read the blog post. We read post status. We read WP Tavern. We read the comments on YouTube. Like, even things that they say you shouldn't do. They don't read the YouTube comments. I know. To try to get as much input as possible. And that is part of the art in science. Like, maybe the science is some of the data that comes in, like the numbers that are adopted in the classic editor, the Gutenberg plugin. And the art is really trying to make sense of all the different things people are saying and balance that. So I would say the standard that we should hold everyone to, regardless of whether they work for automatic, Yoast had a ton of contributors in this release, which was really impressive. I think Bluehost now has five full-time people on core, Godash is spending their core team. We're going to see a lot more people that are being sponsored and contributing full-time. And by definition, because they're spending a lot more hours than weeks than perhaps someone who's not working full-time, they're going to appear to be right there. But regardless of company affiliation, we have a way that we do things in WordPress. And that is what's really important. And I think it's great if we can, when we talk about these things, that we don't attack the company, because often it's a very small percentage of the company that's even there. And the people working for it have been kind of donated by the company. They're often bringing a worthy and a set of experience, which actually usually isn't even that aligned with the commercial interest of that company. But that we talk about behaviors versus just saying, hey, contributors from X company are bad or evil or being too strong. We could say, encourage more folks to do more. I would love for the 40 from automatic to be a small percentage of the total people working full-time. We will get there. As more companies start to adopt five for the future, I think that this will appear to be less and less of a problem. All right, thank you. No problem. Appreciate it. We can clap. It keeps you awake, right? Oh, movement. Right over here. Hey, Matt. So I'm Fred Meyer from WP Shout. And first I want to say thank you for your personal role in helping move Gutenberg ahead. And I know, I mean, it can't have been especially easy to get it out the door and I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to see it exist. My worry about it is that in like the two, three and four steps you mentioned, there's very little about making layout more robust in Gutenberg. So there's columns right now, but you can't do anything like margins or padding or you can't specify how those columns work on different devices. And what I think is going to happen is it may be the case that WordPress starts to orient itself around blocks, but all of those layout decisions that are maybe 50 or 60% of what makes a layout builder are going to be handled by the marketplace, which in general I kind of like, but it's going to kind of mean that there's a million different ways that things work in practice once again. So I'd really like to see you do as much as you can to actually define a layout language for WordPress. That's a lot more robust than what Gutenberg has right now. And I'm also curious kind of how you move Gutenberg onto the front end in a way that has your participation because once again, that's something that the marketplace is going to do. And I think right now is really an opportunity to make that as standard as it can be. So yeah, I hope that makes sense. I'm curious your thoughts on that, because I didn't see it in the two, three or four priorities that you mentioned. Thank you very much. I'm also worried about that. Like that's important that we get right. I'm not so worried that I think we shouldn't start. But I think that it's something that we're going to start to develop. And a beauty of WordPress development is we can see what people are doing organically, and then adopt and cherry pick the best of it. So I'm okay with some different things happening right now, much like there's a dozen plus page builders right now that all have completely incompatible data stores and design languages and blocks and everything like that. Now they're all able to build on some of this common foundation of Gutenberg. And in the future, you could even imagine a day where you could switch between different page builders and not lose your entire content. That would be pretty exciting. But we're not there yet. I would say that these are going to be ripe areas. We're just getting started with phase two. So even though I showed some mockups that looked high fidelity, think of those as just like starting points. And actually, all those mockups have been posted to make.core now, or make slash core, make.wordpress.org slash core. I think we have posted on the PHP versions. We did post on the nine areas that I talked about. We did post of some of those phase two mockups. And the reason is that we want them to be a starting point for discussion. And I want that discussion to have where WordPress development always happens. So we can also be inclusive of 2,000 people here that are like bajillion people who aren't here. So dropping on that thread would be a fantastic place to keep that discussion going. Thank you. Thank you. Left? Hi. My name is Toru Miki. I flew from Tokyo, Japan to be at my first world camp US. Where'd you say you're from? Tokyo. Tokyo, cool. So my question might already be covered a little bit already, but if I may, I would like to read a question I've got here. So I gave a talk yesterday reflecting on contribution to WordPress from a contributor's point of view after teaching university art students what is and how and what could mean to online self-publish. And at the end of the talk in yesterday, I presented one perspective on the mission of the WordPress democratized publishing. And my question kind of jumps up from what I concluded at the end. So 15 years ago, and maybe even 13 years ago, I first started using WordPress, mission democratized publishing. To be honest, it was very vague meaning and at least in Japanese, we had a difficult time trying to translate that just to words. But that was okay, I felt because we had no other options. I think the WordPress was only kind of software that was had that kind of mission and I felt that contributing to WordPress not only meant contributing to WordPress, but the whole the web itself. But at the end of 2018, there are so many other ways to publish online. Different tools, whether you like or not the proprietary stuff, social medias and open source and different technologies and the devices, the mobile devices has changed even how we interact our life with the web. So my first part of question is that I would like to hear an update or perhaps now in little bit more details on your sort, vision and definition of democratized publishing. Because our surrounding environment had changed so much since the first time they came out. And the second part of that is that I get my, I presented one perspective for the meaning of that democratized publishing yesterday and I think everyone here has their own sort and their own meaning and their own perspective of things which may be, I'm not sure if anyone's here, 180 degrees difference to your statement, but maybe not quite the same, look in the same directions, but slightly different sorts or some may overlap. How we can cope with that difference or in a way, how could we fill that gap or bridge that gap if we want to or how could we keep walking together even if your sorts are different. What would you request or want the community to do? That's good questions. Let me try to address both points, but it's also really broad. So I don't know if we have this face to fully do all of that. I talked about one version of democratizing publishing. It's okay, there's probably a more expansive definition that we could talk about. That's okay, people have different ones. It's a mission, it's broad enough that it's something that we can work on the rest of our lives and we will break it down to projects and ideas and tasks and different things like that and that's where it gets a little more concrete and different people will be involved in different ways. But fundamentally, we kind of want the web to be a more open place and we kind of want more people using WordPress. Also, if you disagree with that mission, all the code, you can take all the code or WordPress in forking or do something else and that is not a bad thing. Gary actually has a great post on the importance of forking in open source. In terms of these other, like you said, there are a lot more places you can post now. There were a lot of places, even when WordPress started, there was just the most of them are gone. There was LiveJournal, there was TypePad, there was the oldvox.com, there was Diaryland, there were all these sort of Zenga, anyone having flashbacks? There were all these different places you could publish. WordPress succeeded because it was more open and more flexible and at the time provided a better user experience. I think our mistake, really the mistake of the past decade is we didn't do the work to create Goodberg until two years ago. We didn't start it because every time we'd start it, it got really controversial or we get mired in technical details or it was just too much, too acrimonious. We'd be too worried about backwards compatibility or something to really take it to the term, to fruition, to where it's something that we can actually present and release to the world. So some of these other specialized services have better interfaces, particularly for the use cases. Twitter used to be called micro blogging, right? Many of them have many of these basic elements of publishing, embedding images, commenting, sorts of things and you could actually build most of these services on a WordPress backbone. They weren't because we weren't innovative enough on the user experience. I think we're actually now leapfrogging. So we've created something that allows a lot more flexibility and more power and because of the WordPress ecosystem actually supports more blocks and everything like that than anyone else does, even a few days after release. And this, I think, gives us an opportunity to recapture the web that was. And whether we do so or not, though, depends 100% on the user experiences we create. Okay, so it's not a question, but I would like... It kind of bounced to the next question just so we can... It's not a question, it's just a one request. Can I make just one request? Sure. Yeah. I would like to request, if I may, with all respect to give you homework to write this answer and publish it on your personal blog or on a.org, in some way or another, for the reason it can be translated accurately to people around the world because it's only 50% of WordPress localities is in English. Yeah. Homework to blog, I'm happy to do it. So thank you. Thank you. Over here. Hi, my name is Victor from Miami, Florida, although I identify as a Central American with a lot of close Canadian friends. And but one of the things I've taken away from this particular conference and speaking with previous WordCamp Europe organizers is the idea of embracing neighboring regions and not discouraging where an event like WordCamp Europe can be hosted. And so I suppose my question is, was it perhaps a small oversight where WordCamp United States, as was sort of dictated in the state of the word, where other regions around here, which obviously you want to draw from, discourages a large area and base like Canada from hosting what would be a landmark event on this side of the world. Yeah. So why isn't it called like WordCamp North America? Yeah. It's a little less catchy, but we'll probably do it at some point. How many Canadians do we have here, by the way? Yeah, round of applause for our Canadians. I mean, this used to be called WordCamp San Francisco. So we've expanded a little bit. The idea was to have at least one sort of major Keystone event per year where I put on a suit, present the sort of things. We can kind of towards the end of the year where we can kind of reflect on where we've been and where we're going. What it's called could almost be anything. It was called WordCamp San Francisco for many years, and when we started moving it around, so it wasn't in the same place. Also San Francisco started to get pretty expensive. We switched it to U.S. I would be happy to have a WordCamp U.S. in Montreal or Vancouver or other cities. And I believe we've even had some proposals from some other cities to host. So the next two years we will win St. Louis. So those were still, maybe we'll still call them WordCamp U.S. But I would love for our first WordCamp U.S. not in the United States. Perhaps we can change that name when that happens. So keep organizing and maybe do a proposal next year for hosting, I guess that would be 2021 and 2022. That's good, thank you. Hi, I'm Birgit from Germany and I'm wondering how the foundation of WordPress can expand more to support people who are investing so many time into contributions to WordPress and are not covered by business. For instance, like Heather Burns for creating more awareness about privacy or people who are creating more accessibility. I saw Automatic is sponsoring or pledging for the WP campus accessibility audit. But what can we do as WordPress community or the WordPress foundation to set more funds to support such people who are not covered by companies? That's a good question. Definitely something we consider many times. Right now the WordPress foundation has zero employees. So actually all the filings are online. You can see. I apply. You apply to be an employee? Well, part of the nice thing about having zero employees is that as soon as you have one employee, you need HR, the US, you need health insurance. Like it starts to actually create a lot more overhead. And the more importantly, I feel like you need like a good management structure so that people are getting the proper feedback that they're growing, that they're contributing away. You kind of need that oversight that happens. One of the great donations that companies do when they devote people to work full time is they also provide all that for those people including the management and oversights. And I actually think it is not a bad hurdle because there are literally so many companies trying to hire people to contribute full time to WordPress. It maybe is not a bad hurdle that if you can't get hired by any of them, maybe you're working on something that isn't a good fit. But if there is a specific area, feel free to raise it to me because I talk to all the companies that are trying to hire lots of WordPress contributors and they're often asking me, what do we need more of? And so lately that's been like more JavaScripts, more design, yeah, no, I actually have been saying that. Thank you, Mel. Areas where we're a little bit weaker in terms of contributors. And happy to start to put the bug in the ear for other types of things in the future. Actually, as you already have done just by asking the question. So thank you. Okay. Hey Matt, Adam from Colorado. You mentioned before in your talk that people were using one star reviews as a way of expressing their goals for the future of WordPress. And you said that perhaps there was a better avenue or channel that we could develop for that. I'm curious about your ideas for what that might look like. Whew, that's a tough one. Like, I don't know. We also had on the 5.0 target release date announcement. Think one of our busiest P2 threads ever, like 200 plus comments, some better than others. I don't know. Like pure voting would be weird, right? Because it's not really necessarily representative. Elections would be hard, right? Choosing actual representatives in kind of like a representative democracy sort of way is hard. So I don't know. Maybe we can create on Buddy Press or WordPress or something a better forum for this. You know, we've had ideas for them in the past. We've had a convention of WordPress.org where people can just complain. Like maybe there's like a version two or version three of some of those where we can have capture more of that. It was like petitions for various things that we want to do or prioritize. So, but doesn't it exist yet? If you're excited and working on that, I'm happy to put some experiments up on a WordPress.org and so to get involved with the Meta Group. Sounds good. Thank you. To the, no, just kidding. Hello, I'm Morton from Planet Earth. Stay a little closer to the mic. Right, sorry. I wanted to talk to you about the use of the word we. So you said earlier today, we never talked about the release dates until we were absolutely sure. And previously you used the word we to refer to the people in this room and then you used we to refer to all the people that use WordPress. And then sometimes you use we to refer to something that sounds an awfully lot like Matt Mullenwick. This is actually more of a question of leadership than it is about we, it's just, it's framed within how we use the term we. So for just to give you all some context in all the make blogs, there's this common consensus that if like the accessibility team or the themes team or any other themes post something, they posted it under the moniker we because it's something that comes from the team, right? Now in the post that came out about the release of 5.0, it said we have decided to release, and if you read the comments, there was a bunch of people who said, who is we? Where was this decision made? Where's the insight into all this and what's happening here? I think the community needs to have a better understanding of what leadership looks like in WordPress currently, what the vision is for leadership moving forward. But we also need some clarity in language because this language that's being used is awfully confusing the way it is. So specifically I actually want to know who we is who made the decision for this release. Not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because I don't know and no one knows because who was there, what decision was made, how did that happen and what form was this? Where can we look at it? And secondly, I would like to hear your thoughts about who this we leadership group is and how that works because we make decisions about the next leaders. We make decisions about when things are gonna be released. We make decisions like we're gonna do Gutenberg. Who is we? Good question. Who? I mean, we is contextual, right? So you can look at the context of where it's being talked about to ascertain what it was. Sometimes we might not have done that as well. So to answer specifically your question, the we that I meant when I said we've decided on this release date was the 5.0 release leads. And where it was decided was in a channel where we were debating and talking about it. And I also said, I said an I in there as well or I said I take responsibility for it because it was rough and so I'll take personal responsibility and say me or I for holding off on announcing a new date and then finally, you know, my name was on the post for the date that was announced. But I don't just go in a cave and come up with these things. We tried, how am I using we here? The we is everyone who showed up to like the dev chats tried to have conversations about this and it turned out to be really, really difficult to have a conversation in, you know, we WordPress default to being very, very open where anyone can contribute to any of our threads, any of our Slack channels, any of our weekly meetings, anything like that. One of the challenges was a lot of people were showing up who had never contributed to WordPress before and we're kind of crowding out the kind of core teams discussion and debate about where the release date could happen or whether the software is ready or what bugs were urgent or things like that. So you're completely correct that I would say the changing context of we is one of the biggest challenges that we have in both being kind of radically open where anyone is allowed to participate in any of these things outside of the 5.0 release leads which were announced and chosen. But it's also part of why we did create a private channel just for the 5.0 release leads. So we could have a conversation that was, by the way, every bit as feisty as the public one but among people who were part of the group, meaning there wasn't any drive-by folks. I mean, could you imagine at your company if like just sometimes you were like deciding something and then random people would come in and like talk for five minutes or like, it's a very difficult way to develop things and that's what I meant when I talked about open source is amazing, open source is hard to develop in public. I'm okay with this trade-off meaning that sometimes we might default to doing things in the open or debating them on Slack channels or in P2 posts or something like that but ultimately we need to make a decision. And that decision will not reflect or be agreed with with everyone who participated in the discussion but as much as possible we should have those people heard and that they had an input into it even if the outcome is not what they would have liked. I think something we can always continually prove on is helping people feel like they were heard and understood in it. And the instance that I did a lot of work in the weeks leading up to the 5.0 release trying to listen and hear and understand as many people as possible, those were definitely inputs that led to the decision that the software was ready and it just into more objective things like how many bugs are open? What's the severity of them? Does anyone really care about responsive images? That was just for you. So that is, but feel free to ask. I didn't actually see the comments that asked who we were in the P2 thread. I did respond to like two dozen others but I must have missed those. But you can always ask and happy to clarify. And if English is not your first language as well I completely understand where things might be confusing as you go through. So thank you. Can I just add a comment to that? Sure. I realize what you're describing is a governance structure designed without governance, right? If only there were a meetup for that. Thank you very much. I met my name is Andrew Taylor. I'm from Portland, Oregon. I'm on the hosting team and I know release date was big for a lot of folks but you mentioned that this was the longest release almost by like one day between releases. Between major versions, yeah. Between major versions and Gutenberg has had a kind of release to it every two weeks. So I was wondering you mentioned also that if you look at RC history you could kind of infer that this date was coming. Can you be more direct about release cadence in the future? I know there's been talk of a fast follow but when can we expect that and can we expect another to your gap or is the cadence gonna be tighter in the future? Good question. Let me tell you about my dreams. Cause this is what I think about. I would love to get to the point where you're not thinking about what version of WordPress you're on. You're essentially choosing a channel. Like give me the code that's super baked and stable. Let me be a little riskier and run beta stuff and then for the folks actually involved in development like let me run today's version of the code. That's probably been tested by only a handful of people. This is very similar to like the Canary Channel on Chrome or there's other large software used by actually far more people than WordPress that follow this kind of thing. In terms of future minor releases to WordPress we are hoping to get out a kind of minor bug and enhancement release to 5.0 before the end of the year. So that probably means in the next two or three weeks. That will be, think of the plus 0.0.1 version of 5.0. There's just a lot of things that because we froze the code, they're fixed, they're ready to go, the nice enhancements we got some performance increases as well but we were freezing the prior code to get the rest done. What I would really like to move to, I don't know if two weeks is possible though I think it's good to aspire to is where every time there's essentially such a regular cadence that we can launch essentially start development on the next sprint or two week sprint and freeze the previous one. So that sort of branches into an RSE that goes out to everyone who wants to test it, people who are on more of the beta or stable channel and then a week later we can release it to the world. So when we get to that more regular cadence I think it's gonna be better for all users of WordPress. So that's the minor releases, major releases. I think that covered it, right? I miss anything? No, I think that's pretty good, thank you. No problem, thank you. And let's start wrapping up here. So last questions, last couple. Hey Matt. Howdy. Michael Bisse to SoFly. You piqued my interest earlier about the idea of having native multi-lingual functionality in WordPress. Today we've got players like WPML, Polylang, the fellows at MultiPress. Hi, they're back there in the green shirts. But I'm wondering, it's, granted it's planned for 2020 plus so maybe it's not that big of a sketch yet but I'm curious what's this gonna look like from a functional standpoint? And also what does it look like in a post block world? So the blocks perhaps provide a different layer of granularity or control that you might wanna branch out a site written in one language into other languages. I don't know and I actually don't wanna sort of prescribe any particular technical direction because we just need to do some experiments and see what works best there. There's been promising work around multi-site so where each kind of language is its own site and then you have something running to kind of synchronize them or show like what's built in one language and not the other. You could also do similar things by sending permissions and custom post types and all sorts of other ways you can kind of skin that cat. And I don't know exactly what's gonna be right there. I kinda want us to get more of the customization out of the way for us because I think it's really interesting if you truly internationalize a site. Maybe you're not just translating the words but actually translating the layout, translating the images, translating all parts of the site in ways that today might express themselves as a different theme but in the future we could have some sort of workflow and for collaboration workflow attached to that that is completely driven through the WordPress interface which I would find pretty exciting. So don't worry, there's nothing that's been decided there. There's no we that has decided something. It's just something that I wanna, people will start thinking about. I want us to start discussing it and debating it and kinda aim for that once we get some of this stuff out of the way and in a really good place where we're not seeing testimonials and quotes in user tests like we saw earlier that this is probably one of the next big things we need to address with WordPress. All right, thank you. Cool. All right, we'll do one more and then you can be the last one. All right, so next to last. Hi, my name is Dimitri. I'm the founder of a theme shop called Theme Patio and also lead organizer of work at Moscow twice. My question is for quite a long time there was this notion that theme is responsible for visual representation of the website and plugin is for adding functionality and more complex stuff like that. Now, after the release of WordPress 50, we have basically theme is responsible for basic styling, adding CSS, maybe some basic JavaScript and nothing more. And people start releasing plugins that add blocks, which is fun. And you also mentioned that in one of the next phases, you may want to introduce a repository for blocks. So can you elaborate on that? Do you see that happening and how fast and what should happen with plugins that already introduce new blocks? And how do you see that? Yeah. Well, we're going to see. I think that a lot of the effort that currently goes into making themes can go into making blocks, combinations of blocks, premade layouts, kind of these configurations, essentially, a future version of what I showed with that import and export of JSON, I think is like the first bits of what is going to become really what is exciting for people building their WordPresses in the future. I also think that it'd be nice to have a clean, well-lit place for everyone to find these, just like the plugin and theme directories aspire to be today. And I would love for there to be, essentially, parallel to a plugin directory, a block directory, and then parallel to themes, kind of a layout builder type thing, so you can choose different stuff. But I don't know what that exactly is going to work like. And in the meantime, it's going to be a little wild west of different plugin themes. I do encourage any blocks being registered to be in a plugin. So please don't do that in themes. That might even be an official guideline. But what's cool about that is it then allows more portability across themes and more of that kind of design happening in a way that also is more portable. It's probably the best way to put it. Yeah, so you do see it as a different entity in terms of themes, collection of blocks, and plugins in future. Yeah. OK, thank you. Cool, thank you. And thank you for organizing work at Moscow. It's one of the places I want to make it out to. All right, shutting it down. Hi, Matt. My name is Christy Cheney, and I am one of the co-owners of Caldera WP. We make Caldera forms, a drag and drop form builder for WordPress. Woo-hoo. And my question to you is now that Gutenberg is out, how are we going to tell people outside of WordPress about it? How are you going to make sure that people who have been burned by WordPress, people who fill their mouths on Twitter and elsewhere saying that WordPress sucks and to use something else, know that Gutenberg is out, that WordPress is better than ever, and they need to try it out? Yeah, what do you think? I asked you, you can't hit me back with a question. OK, this is officially the tougher question side of it. For all future work camps, go to the right side if you are going to ask it everything. I think we need to continue what we've been doing. That's why I highlighted how many work camp sessions, how many talks, et cetera, have been done on this. How we talk about it, there is an interesting question there in terminology. We're calling it the block editor. So once it's in WordPress, it kind of is, I think, within the interface. It makes more sense to refer it to the block editor. It's also easier to contrast a block editor to a classic editor. So that's a lot of the terminology that we've been using in new documentation. Outside of that, the Gutenberg name has really taken hold. It's also not trademarked or anything. So you can go to Drupal Gutenberg dot whatever it was. I don't remember. And that is the Drupal version of Gutenberg. And that's kind of beautiful because this now allows, we're not just affecting 32% of the web when we can make improvements. When we improve Gutenberg, that could potentially go even to other CMSs, even to other native mobile apps in the future. Maybe even other social networks can adopt it. Want to be cool if, like, when you're creating your emails on MailChimp or constant contact, that that was a Gutenberg builder and had the same blocks. And perhaps they even allow you to port in the blocks from the open ecosystem so you can do cool things to it. And then they transform it into the HTML and CSS that's appropriate for email, just like the AMP plug-in is transforming into the subset that's appropriate for AMP sites. So this, I could have never even imagined that sort of adoption five or 10 years ago. I kind of wrote a public love letter to the Drees. Drupal is my other favorite open source project. I think they're really cool. We learn a lot from each other. And we talk. We'd hang out. We'd say, hey, is there anything we can do together? And we'd always come up like, oh, can we have plug-ins work across it? No, because then you have the data layers. And we both have our authentication. We both have all our functions, all the helpers. It's hard to find something. But with Gutenberg, we've created a layer of abstraction that plausibly, not just in theory, but in reality, now has the same code running across Drupal and WordPress. And I think that is just even better than I could have imagined. So we need to continue to educate people, teach them how to use blocks, make more tutorials, make more block builders. And I think actually the built-in directories will help a lot. If we do it right, we can make it so that when you're in Gutenberg and you search for something that's not there, we can also show you the directory results. And by clicking on it, it'll, in the background, install a plugin, activate it, and then the block enters right there. It can be completely seamless. So again, you're not just building your site or page with what you happen to have installed. You're building with the wealth of flexibility and control that WordPress provides. So all right, with that, thank you. Thank you. Before we break, I did want to show you a little video if you haven't seen this yet. We made a release video for 5.0 Babo, but also shows a little bit of phase two. So if you will grant me a minute, let's go ahead and click play here. Thank you all so much. What we accomplished this year, I didn't think was possible. So thank you all, and I appreciate it.