 Here we go. I started recording. By the way, welcome everybody to this new meeting. Today we're going to have a speech that's largely anticipated on LinkedIn and all the media. And you have our friend, Boba Khabestein from Netherlands. So we love not to waste too much time into introduction. Boba's already gone through one meeting last year, exactly in April, by the way. So it's my pleasure to introduce him again letting me speak about sustainability and supply chain. So Boba, I'll leave it on to you right away to start your discussion, your introduction. Please take the stage, stage yours, you can start. Thank you. I don't know, what do you screen now? I don't think you see my right screen. Do you see my screen? Yes. Yep. With a slide also, hopefully. Yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect. So yeah, we live actually in strange time. If you think about it, we just know how to deal with an international health crisis, COVID-19. And now something is replaced by this Russia-Ukrainian crisis. And on top of that, we already have to deal with all kinds of extreme weather conditions, climate change, inequality, just an MSU. So how do you explain the impact of your organization, not only on the economy, but also in your environment and on people? How do you inform what you do is actually good. You can do that all with all kinds of communication. You can just publish a number of posts out there in the open, social media, for instance. But you would like to have a solid solution, which is really comparable and further reliable. Well, if you think about those two words, you probably already have a solution in mind, because you're dealing with that on a frequent basis. But what you would like to do is to be more transparent really about what you do for the environment, the social and the governance type of impacts. Currently, you have all kinds of reporting in that related to the ESG that's on annual basis. But you would like to move that in the future to really see this on a daily basis and maybe real-time. So you would like to show the world that you and your actions are really sincere and that you practice what you preach. And that's all what sustainability is about. So what we'll discuss today briefly is ESG fundamentals, basically stating what is sustainability, given the definition, some small insight on some of the reporting possibilities there, a little bit more on focusing on the European Union and what is happening there related to sustainable finance and in a particular new taxonomy. Then the combination of supply chains and sustainability. Now as I touch a little bit upon, we have to deal with small and medium-sized enterprises, even smaller ones as well, and what they can play for a role. But I think the most important part is actually what I really ask you to pay attention to. Act now, because we really have to become climate fit. Trade and supply to the plan as you can use really as an incentive to make the change possible and to use self-shift to a future proof of business. That's not only from a corporate perspective, but also from a banking perspective basically. So if you think about it currently, sustainability is really a container concept. If you look out in all kinds of articles you see that we're sustainable. We have a sustainable product, our product is green. But what do they really mean with it? Because there's so much terminology around it, it's extremely vague. It also provides really all kinds of means of typical word of greenwashing. So we'd like to avoid this. So then it's good to give some kind of definition to sustainability. And in this case, you can use the pillars of the ESG, free pillars to describe basically sustainability. So you describe it in environmental sustainability, social sustainability, and government sustainability. So some examples of environmental sustainability you think about then energy efficiencies, the carbon footprint, the biodiversity, but also the amount of water you actually use in your operations. As an example of the social sustainability is that you think about labor standards, wages, human rights, supply chain management and the effect of that on the whole supply chain. And governance then is more about what is the composition of the board. Think about how many women friends are represented there. As well as the compensation, how much do you pay them and if you're involved with bribery and corruption. So these are kind of means to define what is sustainability. But in the end, why are you so interested in this sustainability thing? Well, one of the things, of course, you hear a lot in the news and as a company more and more forced to actually report on it. And when I hear also in the news is that we refer to there are a lot of extreme weather conditions which are experiencing as well as information from the IPCC, all kinds of reporting that we actually are having to face what we're dealing is doing wrong and what we have to act. For me, it started more than 25 years ago as a student, I started to be involved with research on nuclear infusion which is basically trying to recreate the sun here on earth by putting two melting two particles together in which that really is this energy. So it actually could be an energy source which is controllable and can replace gas, oil and coal and actually be a new energy source to the mix of solar, wind and water energy. I hear at that time also many discussions and some nice presentations where climate change and the problems related to it became very clear to me. So for like, this is really interesting research I want to be involved with but unfortunately the broader public didn't know it and then around 2006 you had the incoherent truth on Elm Gore and we saw this extremely nice documentary it got a number of prizes and people started to act a little bit on it but really the necessity to really change became not really clear yet. At the moment you can actually see a really nice documentary on Netflix on David Etterberg called The Breaking Boundaries that's describing how he and witnessed in his lifetime the changes of the world and basically describing that we are breaking or extending the boundaries of our earth basically to destroying our own home our planet earth. So people are more and more aware of it and as well as because of all the publications out there in the media but if you think about it actually most of the wheels start as a community from a political point of view also in countries that have started to be involved and interested in this is willing to find a place team with the Paris Agreement. In the Paris Agreement they decided that we actually should not exceed two degrees Celsius rise of temperature and actually we would like to keep it at 1.5 degrees compared to pre-industrial area and then in 2019 we had a European dream year where we described that we would actually have a 55% reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in 2030 and another good example that what we discussed is in Europe we would like to be the first climate neutral continent in 2050. Well on top of that 2021 we also had a close close statements where we really wanted to achieve net zero and this one and a half degrees so not even two degrees but we're limiting ourselves to the one from five degrees protect ecosystems and habitats mobilize all kinds of fans because if you want to achieve this you need a really huge amount of investment not only from the financial institutions but also from the private industry and investors combined and more more collaboration basically you cannot think that the rich countries can do all their own and the poor countries can do that on their own no I think the rich countries should really help the poorer countries to achieve this and how to deal for instance with the rising sea levels so that became some kind of standards and discussions on how we can actually limit this but we also heard that actually yesterday with the new report of the IPCC we really have to act now because we have discussed a lot there are some nice initiatives but that won't be sufficient to achieve because we actually would like to achieve and how but became that possible to actually make that statement well with that we actually require some kind of reporting and you want to actually report that you make impact what is your effect on the economy the environment and the people so in that case you want to be very clear about what you mean how you put your reputation forward how that means for your client for your employees what it does for your customers and also the community operating so for that you can use report but then you come to another problem and that is basically what is a good report and then you have two things you have standards and frameworks and that already gives itself another discussion which needs to be cleared up and we try to do that so a standard it's more something you agree on a quality requirements that we think is acceptable and we can use it for reporting so and also the reporting entity accept this a few examples which are out there in the market related to sustainability reporting are these which are presented you see a lot of nice symbols with acronyms for instance the global reporting initiative the GRI or the EFRAG European Financial Reporting divisional group all kinds of nice integrations I don't know my heart that's why I have to look at them also so next to standards you also have then frameworks that's basically guiding principles helping you to share your thoughts now do you think about this in public but there's no really reporting obligation related to it so there's a difference between the standards but it already gives you and helps you give aid give insight so on some examples on that you see here for instance the TCFD the European financial reporting the task force on climate-related financial disclosures or the CDP which is the carbon disclosure project and in the middle actually C1 probably all recognize that's the United Nations sustainability development goals so yeah this helps you more or less as a company or as an financial institution to use something to be able to report on and a lot of that information is also being reused by other agencies ranking agencies which also give you a lot of information so they basically use all kinds of information but basically used or reported on by public and listed companies unfortunately if you start comparing with them they have quite a huge defiation between each other if you look at the ratings for credit from these companies there is basically an overlap or correlation or relationship between them of about 99% so you can doesn't matter which one you take you basically get the same result but if you start looking at ESG rating then the correlation is likely well 50% so it really depends which one you take and therefore it's a little bit of a trick to use these numbers so you really have to go into the structure right there because the kind of black boxes you have to understand how they use the initial data and how they come into the final result but this could be very useful to be able to show and use for all kinds of reporting for yourself or for your company so these are ways to actually give this transparency either by reporting or you use ratings from rating agencies in the European Union we also have something which is called the European sustainable finance strategy this is basically a strategy which helps to put more financing to sustainability and make this transition possible so we actually are achieving the goals which are presented for instance in the European Union and therefore we would like to have all kinds of regulations which basically promote sustainable investments you manage your finance so risk much better and also make this shift from short on thinking to long on thinking and there are a huge amount of regulation possible there and they all have the means to provide transparency so you see here a huge amount of words but I would like to focus this one on only one of them and it's your taxonomy well these regulations as I mentioned really give transparency because they give or use the same criteria about to describe what is a sustainable product that provide greater transparency on the sustainability risks that provides you this framework for all kinds of objectives and they promote cooperation because collaboration is important we cannot do this on your own sounds also familiar if you're very much involved in trade and supply chains so the taxonomy is basically the building block of many of the regulations in the European Union gives you an assessment of sustainability it's basically a classification system with criteria to describe which activities you perform as a company can actually be defined as being sustainable and they have to be then contributing substantially to a few environmental objectives they do not have harm the other objectives which actually are defined and it also should meet minimal safeguards in this moment it's only focusing on environment in the later stages that will also include the social and the governance aspects of sustainability as well so the taxonomy in itself already gives a company a tool a tool to show and to make actually an assessment of sustainability themselves and show their impact not only in the environment on the social and governance so basically on the economy the environment and on people so that that can help you to manage your reputation to manage your risks maybe as a company you already have to report on this so you also have a complaint and the number of companies which have to be report on this is also growing over time currently it's only related to public and listed companies but in the long run even a small and medium-sized enterprises should be reported on this and also as financial institutions should also have a look at this and report on this how green they are in their whole ratio related to the amount of loans and finance they give how green they are they also will start thinking about do I want you and your client and your finance actually be part of my thinking book itself so how easy it is actually to get access to finance becomes also very important so in that perspective you also make your future profile in business so the more green you are the more likely it is you will have access to finance and be able to run your business in the future as well and do all concepts and fastens to even become better so therefore the ATOX economy is just a small building block but extremely important and it is not related only to the european union but it will have effects also your whole supply chain and therefore on a global basis so sustainability and supply chains are quite intertwined with each other on ATOX and I think they can provide also a solution to these two challenges because if you think a little bit more about the ENSS energy the environmental solution governance you can also relate them together again with the sustainable development goals from the united nations for instance environmental then you come to decent work industry innovation sustainable cities and communities and partnerships and goals if you think about governance then you also have the effect on it on clean water responsible consumption light below water life on land climate action and social then we talk really about no poverty civil hunger good health gender equality peace and justice and if you think about it if you would provide enough money to your supply chain participants and they're able to provide a living wage they actually have a huge impact on working because we're providing a living wage to all your participants in the supply chain you make it possible there is no poverty you avoid hunger so there's zero hunger you have good health and health being you provide the chance for good quality education gender equality you're reduced in inequalities in that perspective as well you provide the chances of clean water and sanitation affordable and clean energy decent work and economic growth industry innovation and infrastructure and I think that actually you're touched most upon which are already presenting this overview of the development costs from the United Nations so this little aspect has already a huge impact on your supply chain and if you think about it as a company you also have maybe different value drivers why you want to do things why you want to invest in digitization or data management to name a few data management ownership process automation you would like to have more transparency you will want to be compliant you want to improve your data sharing and as I also mentioned basically a year ago Andrea mentioned the presentation I gave at that time I also showed that what Chen can already help you in that perspective to build trust to announce the transparency reduce costs make it more possible to collaborate support paperless trades and also in this case you can actually support sustainability because it's just a side effect of all the other value drivers you have if you want to have more transparency in your whole supply chain with that you can basically also more insight on the effect you have as a company and your whole supply chain on the environmental social and governance parts because if you look a little bit more about the supply chain it starts with raw material sourcing you would like to show that if you produce these shirts that it's organic cotton no child labor has been involved so the end user is very happy with that that you manufacture or something that you also want to show that you're not polluting the ground where the factories are and why you are actually distributing it that you're not using very much dirty exhausts of trucks for example but this is only looking upstream again if you think about supply chain and sustainability you have to look at the whole chain so you also have to look downstream the usage of it and the end usage of it and actually this is still a very linear process and one of the goals is also in 2050 to be a climate zero as the first continent in the European Union then you have to think completely different business model but then you would like to be more circular so then basically start reusing a lot of your materials and there's very little waste so you also require very little new materials and sourcing but at this moment about 80 percent of all the carbon commissions are part of course by global supply chains because nothing is happening in the near vicinity a lot of production from the richer countries are happening actually in the poorer countries so you cannot state like okay you have to solve it we have to do this together so you have to look in all kinds of possibilities of how to deal with that and example is really that you can reduce the greenhouse gas emissions the amount of emissions you have from CO2 for instance and that has been measured also in three different scopes as they call it first one is a direct emission which you basically caused by the operation of the company the second one is indirect and it's been caused by the energy or electricity you use for your operations and the third one is the indirect emissions that's basically all the emissions from your value chain so that also includes your suppliers your distribution logistics your business travel so a lot of things related to that become then whole part of the whole supply chain so it's not only you as a company you have to see the whole supply chain so even for just measuring the greenhouse gas emissions and specifically for which is called free emissions you have to understand the whole supply chain but there's a transparency place part of that and as you know blockchain can provide help to increase the collaboration and transparency but what can you do for instance if you just think about the decarbonisation possibilities in your whole supply chain but let's start of course with raw materials so you can source green or use much more of the recycled products and materials already so instead of really being linear we already try to be more of a certain business model if you do your manufacturing you want to improve the energy and efficiency of the processes you want to use other energy sources so instead of using energy from coal gas or oil you maybe use already energy from your sunopernos which you have on your business or you use hydrogen which becomes available and at the same time you want to use more and more recycled components well if you do the disabusing of course it's very obvious that you can think about an electrical fleet also here you have to think more about your energy and your operational efficiency and the renewable energy part of your operations in general can also play a huge role and affect already and to your users of your product yeah we can promote there to be more sustainable and the system will use it so fit and if you then think about if they want to dispose of it that you promote actually to the user that they use it longer maybe you can reuse it and otherwise use second plant reselling of course it all depends on the type of products you're involved with services or it becomes much more difficult so this is a supply chain the effect of sustainability and just a few measures that's already helpful by decarbonisation of your supply chain but we also know global supply chains about 80% of them are seaborn so we have to also be able and deal with shipping and if you don't think about it if you are involved with shipping you also have to enter the port and if you're part of a port you're part of a complete and difficult ecosystem where many parties are involved in and even here in this part you would like to make this much more efficient not only but collaboration between these parties where again blockchain can provide fantastic means to share information on a methanol basis and give insights and transparency when it's required there's more involved in it and you can use all kinds of nice technology on that because if you think about it a port is nothing else than a funnel for goods which are coming in and leaving either from the seaside or from the hinterland side more inside so now which way you go you can see it as a bit of a funnel where a lot of things are happening before the goods are distributed again so here you can think about all kinds of initiatives where you can optimize the flow through this whole port ecosystem by announcing much more in advance when a ship is coming the efficiency inside a port can be actually also much better when you know when a ship is coming you know exactly where the goods are on the ship as well when you unload it you know exactly when it is being unloaded so the company which has to pick it up can already be notified in advance when you expect it to be available when it's already available and a lot of the information already has been shared in advance customers can already decide if they want to clear it just now or they want to inspect the container in advance for the goods a lot of the paperwork therefore can already be done in advance instead of the extremely linear process which currently is the case with the help of digitization you can already speed up things to make it a little bit more parallel so the port in itself you can think of a system which benefits a lot from a digital twin we can follow the goods on an electrical way you know exactly where the ship is coming in by all kinds of measurements you know exactly how the water is moving so you know exactly when a ship can be actually docking on the release in the goods when it can be picked up when it can get through cleanings from customers be picked up at the end and actually leave to the next modality out in the hinterlands so with the help of all kinds of digitization possibilities where port check can provide a huge role you can actually optimize this movement of goods through the port and with that of course that has a huge impact on the environmental solution and governance perspective of course if you think about digitization you'll have a huge impact on education, business work and economic growth industry, innovation and infrastructure sustainable cities and communities as well as partnerships because you can do this on your own so it's all about data collaboration between all the stakeholders you can improve the flow of information either it's digital or still on paper but at least you would like to improve the documentation flow and as I mentioned with the help of port call optimations and just in time arrival of goods ships and all the communication inside this ecosystem you can improve a lot of the communication and also the speed of which goods are arriving in the port as well as leaving in the port with the next modality if you think about health, safety and security if it's just following the latest procedures and think about safety think about how your personnel and your visitors actually are have to fill this with lines when they're actually on the port society that you of course have all kinds of security in place but also that is still an accessible area and not just completely closed and difficult to access and enter and leave as well as you can optimize all kinds of inspections of cargo as well as the passengers itself and what becomes more and more important is also cyber security because the more we are depending on the intersection we also have to be aware that we have to be secure and in control of all the data and not all the data becomes really available to everybody so you can also think really about the environment when a ship comes in instead of using its engine when it's lying in the cage you can provide all kinds of means of cleaner energy help them not pollute the water inside the harbor as well but make sure that there's fresh water available when you bunker that you also think that they are not just from their litter over the water but you have a collection and so you can reuse and recycle a lot of the materials they actually not use on the ship anymore but could be used for other processes and therefore you protect the habitat thereby the first in the clear surroundings of the port and climate and energy is also quite obvious in the perspective you would like to use more and efficiency of the energy you use, think more about the circular economy think about reusing more and more renewable energy as you mentioned previously also as examples you can reduce the carbon footprint a lot footprint a lot think about clean ships alternative transport fuels so they're also actually polluting less so all kinds of initiatives you can actually do make visible and transparent so you have a huge impact on sustainability and therefore your whole supply chain by also picking what is the right port not only from perspective what is the best way to cut it as quickly to my client or my customer but also what is the best impact if I use this in this port because it has a better impact on the environment or from a social global feminist perspective because that becomes also very important so next becoming climate fit you have to understand that as we explain a huge and important role because about 90% of all the businesses over the world are actually small million sized enterprises and provide about half of all of the employment and these companies are also very difficult to really know where to start because they lack access to knowledge access to finance they don't have the right incentives because they are only one to produce produce produce or deliver deliver deliver because you asked for it and they cannot make a huge investment so we really need to help these small million sized enterprises with help of knowledge of course but also if you would like improve efficiency or scores related to sustainability in your supply chain you have to give them incentives and one of the best ones is actually to provide them is access to finance give them incentives to actually improve their services because in the anti-benefit from it so here trade finance as well as supply chain finance instruments can play neutral you can give them discounts by delivering quicker for instance so supply chain finance actually helps because you would like to have sustainable operations in the end that creates financial benefits so it supports a sustainable strategy which in a terms helps with the supply chain management so in the end you have better operations and financial benefits so you really feed the wheel in order to make this huge impression possibilities and improvements in your whole supply chain and give the rights and incentives to all the players in the supply chain so what I hope I've shown you and what you discussed is give you a little bit of some of the fundamentals of ESG some of the standards talk a little bit about e-toxonomy the solutions to some of the challenges which sound very easy they're hard to achieve but I think they're really easy to to incentivize by finding the right instruments in this case you can use financing trade finance or supply chain finance to really create incentives to really make the changes possible so with that it's easy to become climate fit you can use these instruments of the trade and supply chain finance to incentivize this change and you can in the perspective if you can achieve that privately as a business in the future as well so with that I want to conclude and at least thank you for your time hopefully you have some questions and we can have some nice introduction to a fantastic discussion thanks Bob thanks for the presentation by the way it was insightful as ever as it was the last one that you had in 2021 I wanted to ask you what do you see the role being for DLTs and blockchain and the picture that you just talked about what role can it play in this in achieving ESG and sustainability development goals thank you very question Andrea to me I see this as a fantastic infrastructure to provide collaboration between all kinds of parties in the supply chain the collaboration can be used in order to exchange the information used to exchange data because that is a big huge problem that data can be anything helping your supply chain and with that related it can be any data element reflecting anything related to sustainability in the EDS or the G so that perspective I see it as the infrastructure which is required to exchange the information to collaborate but really in such a way because it is trust what you see otherwise is that you have some kind of central solution where all the information becomes available companies don't want to have insights don't want to give that insight maybe put it that way and at the same time you're done bound to this one system and I think for all supply chains you require different solutions so again DLTs can provide this infrastructure to connect all of the solutions you require to do your business in a proper way and to make really the whole supply chain transparent and therefore gives efficiency to your operations and to your guts as a whole as an ecosystem hopefully that answers your questions Yeah, is there anybody that wanted to make a question to Bob? I mean that was great by the way, Bob and I wanted to ask you also one more thing and you see how do you see I mean the interaction into this not only DLTs and blockchain but other technologies to the envisage I mean I see the blockchain really is this infrastructure which can help you to monitor all kinds of events happening in your supply chain and with that again trigger all kinds of other actions which are required and sometimes that can be automated because it gets a trigger for instance from an IoT device or a location based on the location of your ship the GPS signal you can also trigger something think about I'm an exporter I want to deliver goods and actually we describe based on the income terms basically when it arrives at the K of the foreign country that there that's the time that means like I fulfilled my requirements then the location of the ship together with maybe that your container also receives a signal from a GPS messed again together with the clearance signal from customs can trigger already the payment and you don't have to wait for all the paperwork being done by the bank of the customer you have in the foreign country so therefore you can speed up and processes and have been much more hold of your own money again and improve your working capital so it's a trigger yeah events and create transparency because of that and automation of all kinds of other related processes and I had some transparency without violating the principle of independence let's say abstractness upon which you see the International Chamber of Commerce the ICC several balls based on trade fund solution think about the LC they're all commitments revocable and independent ones so undertakings by the way so they are not linked to operational side of the contra and stuff like this contra has nothing to be able to do so entering into the new world into a new space where transparency is definitely enhanced without violating without breaking totally what's been done over the centuries so it's kind of an evolution maybe leading to a revolution but at the stage like so it's an enhancement rather than real revolution exactly and because of what is required for that the transparency in losing this infrastructure of course we need standards and as I mentioned in the beginning you already have standards frameworks and even many different types of standards so we have to make it feasible and possible possible that they actually all interact with each other and have the common language because we have to be able to speak the same language if we deal with each other but also this is extremely important and this matches perfectly with what's been done you see in digitization in the standards that has been drawn by the DCSA by the Singapore Digital Standards Initiative you see we're talking about different standards technical ones and other standards for ESG but you see the purposes they're always the same speaking the same language just one other question you know that my background is still deeply into Africa, Middle East and those developing countries how do you see ESG and SDG into that particular space of emerging economies LDCs you see how the cold has developed countries what are the challenges in your opinion and the opportunities for those countries in that space it is clear that there is a huge challenge there it is not that we are in the developer world can say it's your problem because much of the production we actually are not doing ourselves anymore because we outsource it over there so it's not like okay now it's there resolve it so we really have to collaborate on this so we would be able to provide them support not only with knowledge but also the AI's finance to make this transition possible so also that they make it much more possible to make this transition to a much better and sustainable environment and better world actually the example of living wages is already an example that you actually can improve many things over there without doing a lot of effort yes it may be because that your product becomes a little bit more expensive but a little bit here makes a huge difference over there also help them to think about how can we improve the energy consumption of our processes how can we make it possible that we're using actually renewable energy much more than coal, gas, or oil which are easily abundant for this country's phenomenon and the only source of energy they have so it requires a lot of collaboration sharing knowledge and a lot of funding thank you does that answer it does indeed just a last question from my side and I'm going to live on to the audience we often hear about the trade finance gap which is huge one it's in trillions only all how it works you see why there is this gap we've discussed so much in that picture being that white trade funds how can these topics be of any support namely as I often say the redefining the data structure the data quality the data in themselves you see in reframing the way evaluations in trade finance is done how do you see that that perspective also by using DLT it helps actually to get more insight in the data of the company and in the supply chains and who are the involved with which countries so for them it's easy to use this technology this infrastructure to create data to actually create a credit rating which is most of times lacking for these companies because there's no history on that so it can build actually this history next to that it becomes much more important to include the ECG factors in the credit rating of the company so the more you actually show of the transparency and your ECG factors the better it also is to get this number into ECG in your credit rating and if you also know actually who are your buyers the big corporates which are using your products you can also start using that credit rating and their scoring to actually get better financing because they also can provide your concept means and that because you know if you have a purchase order from this large company you actually know that this is a large lower risk that you're not getting any money so therefore it's much easier to get financing so it helps to create a credit rating the sustainability factors are affecting more and more in the credit rating will be part of it but also if you provide this transparency and you show with us your whole supply chain and you're the supplier of which companies and if they're really large ones you can benefit from their credit rating as well wonderful Bob now there's a caffeine slider that is ESG scoring in SMEs makes good sense I mean thank you for this I mean I'm living on to the audience now it's up to me to shut up I know it's a lot usually let me tell you I'm justified to do so so I'll leave it on to the tenants to make some question to raise hands and I encourage them because this is a great chance to have Bob with us today it's a good chance for for getting some very interesting insights I also know I presented a lot and maybe there was way too much way too quick so yeah maybe have to do just on it but yeah if there's anything you would like me to repeat or explain a little bit more please let me know as well there is a question from Marina Pachevich she asks which blockchain framework you recommend for building the collaboration for ESG goals am I correct in interpreting BC as blockchain yes I would interpret it that way as well Andrea yeah so I think this is a very hard question because it really depends which are the players you would like to achieve something what you would like to achieve what are your requirements for this and based on that you can define what is then the best blockchain framework you can use for this because it all depends what you would like to achieve I don't say there is one solution which is better than the other it really depends on the use case the participants in the efficiency you want to create and how open you would like to share it as well because maybe you want to do it for a close amount of participants or you really want to do everything out in the open and do it extremely transparent it all depends really what you would like to achieve and what type of data you want to want to exchange in which way there's now the question from Sara Faraz she asks digitalization is key to DLT use case in supply chain and trade funds but without cross-border digitalization how practical is the use case with blockchain your thoughts in the current limited scope please it's true that cross-border digitalization is the biggest issue but you can think of it there's an amount of single windows for countries which are out there which help you to digitize part of your trade and by just connecting these two different digital single windows with the help of this type of technology yeah you start to create a common knowledge certain standard of how to exchange information with two countries or two continents whatever you want also we have depending on what you want to exchange at what time pushing control there are different ways of doing this but in principle you would like to have verifiable and comparable information so we understand what we're really doing and somebody can really check that the statement you make is really the right one so this is not just limited to a country or a continent we're talking about global supply chains so it is required that we do something on cross-border and even within a continent there's so much trade going on with different countries so yeah cross-border becomes part of it not only for the trade and the information collaboration possibilities but also for the payments hopefully that answers your question so for us there's another question from a friend Daniel what role will the eyes of 2020 immigration play on cross-border digitalization it's a very nice question because I've been involved in the past with the bank payment obligation which is using basically a lot of the messaging within the eyes of 2021 standards which is actually already a nice standard in its own because it's combining and reusing a lot of understand standards so and it's developing in that perspective so it becomes already a single useful language to exchange information so unfortunately this is still on measures basis but it provides you a framework at least to talk about the same thing in the same way in a controlled and structured manner so I think eyes of 2022 is one of the possible formats of digitalization possibilities you can use for cross-border trade a list of the companies thank you Bob I'm sorry I couldn't be visible virtually it was very very good to get that high perspective way in the sky and so I want to thank you for that you're welcome so there's another question from Marina again and I quite like that she's making questions do you think that would be possible to create a system tool for self-assessment ready to use your companies and supply chains I'm convinced that it will be possible if you think about for instance example I gave you the e-tux on me there are a number of tools available where companies can actually do this assessment themselves maybe some of the questions are still hard to answer and you require some help but in principle it's all managed to make the assessment yourself as a company so you actually get a good overview of your sustainability overview related to in this case the activities you perform on an environmental perspective and how aligned you are with the rules of regulation they actually put forward and that can be shared with for instance financial institutions so the moment they give you finance they also know how well aligned their finance is if you use it for the activities of your country of your company and with that they have really good nice easy means to report it to the regulator themselves so yeah I foresee that it will become a number of self-assessments available for your company not only on environmental but also more and more on the social and the governance perspective and it will require also much more in the future so to have insight in your supply chain and therefore it will help you unfortunately currently it's still an assessment which is probably done with a lot of manual efforts on an annual basis but if you use more digitization and technology like DOT or blockchain you can basically with the push of the button get the insight at the moment how well you're doing for each of the single trades or for your whole portfolio and your experience over the whole year month whatever nice question thanks yeah hi Bob this is Daniel Auriglia in fact also Italian I heard in your last statement there you you made a marked a difference between blockchain and or DLT do we need to make that distinction or is DLT kind of a sub a subgroup of BC I don't want to burn my fingers on this on this discussion because it really depends we're talking to you have notorious with making use distinction if you can use the New York or the abbreviation DLT or blockchain I use it from a business perspective basically to be single in one it doesn't matter or it's a part of which is better or worse I don't know I use it basically as intertwined terminology from a business perspective hopefully that answers your question because I think it's very difficult to make this statement to burn my fingers on it I don't think I do yeah I you're very you're very good you're very neutral which is which is the way it needs to be thank you for answering you're welcome thank you for asking any other questions for you shot the entire attendance Bob I bought him to death probably do you want to shot them or whether you have a fully let's say exhausting you you gave the full outlook you say there's no need to make question to raise hands I'm just boring no it's not an interesting topic so nobody has any questions you just want to fill the time I think I go okay I mean that's I encourage everybody to make questions suppose their own question if any otherwise we can close the meeting and you see hi this is Daniel over there one last question I didn't recognize in the the rating portion of your presentation one of the groups the MS see you said you didn't remember all of them but I guess this presentation will be made available by by way of the hyper ledger yeah and to comment on that it's not an extensive overview it's the names or the initiatives I'm aware of myself relate to standard frameworks I don't intend to be complete and I don't think I have to complete picture myself either so just as a little note on that part but yeah it will be shared with the group and available on the hyper ledger wiki page thank you so much yeah it's going to be available also I'll never link the page shortly you see just the time to upload recording on youtube channel it's about if no other questions is in the pipeline think we can close the meeting this way and I wanted to thank you so much for this continuation actually of last year see first meeting it was insightful as ever so thank you so much for being with us today and we start from these you're welcome it was a pleasure if you might have any questions afterwards please don't hesitate to reach out to me or any of my colleagues at the value department we can hopefully provide you with answer ourselves and if it comes we can relate you to the person who might be able to do so and use our network for that so thank you once more and hope to see you soon again see you soon again and we're going to be back in two it's time if you have time it's going to be thirsty so I hope to see you again have a nice continuation of the day and thank you so much thank you Bob it was great to have you today see you soon bye everybody thank you bye ciao Mario thank you Bob bye bye Marina ciao everyone I'm writing ciao Marina thank you