 Felly hynny oedden nhw, wna, wna, ychydig i, hwnnw, fyddiwch, fyddiwch, i'ch dweud at yn dod. Felly ychydig i fawr o'r ysègwys coun i gweithio i'n gwneud cyfal, rwy'n sefydliad o'r peth ar gyfer ymgyng doctors. going. My name's Jim Robinson and I'm the HLP AOR, House and Land and Property Area Responsibility Coordinator with the Protection Cluster and yeah, really good to have you here at our quarter to sort of global meeting where we get to you know here around something around a specific subject but then also here updates from some of the coordination related to HLP but also a'r hwn dyfodol yng Nghymru wedi rhoi yw'r teimlo'n bod ychydig yn fawr, rydyn ni'n gofio'n amdano'n nhw, a'r cymdeithasol yn ysgrifennu os yw'r rhywbeth ar y gailed ar gyfer rydyn ni'r gweinyddol. Mae hynny'n ei brofi wneud o'r ffordd. Efallai ar draws odd i'r camerau, cyfeirio'n ffordd. dwi'n gallwch yn gallu'n sgiriaeth. Mae'r sefydlu i chi. Felly yw, efallai e'i wneud o ddegwysig. Mae yn rwyf yn ei anum. Rwy'n ei anum. Ddiolch yn ddechrau, mae ei gadw cyflym ysgrifennu, y diogelwch â'u lleogi, llyfrgyrchu llogeth sydd hwnnw og chi'n gweithredu ac yw'r rhagwm. Fyrnau cymrydau ac yr hyn hyn i chi gweithredu llogeth llogeth mae'r cwmddian nhw'n mynd i'r cyfnodd, o'r cyfnodd yn ymweld yn Ycran, a'r rwyfyrdd o'r rysgwun ar y cynnig, o ran ymddangos Llanu Pobl, felly mae'n gael eu hynod o ffyrdd o'r rhaidiau a'r cyfnodd yn iawn i ffordd y dyfodol. Mae'n fywr, ac yn fawr, ac mae'r hyn o'r gwrthog, ond ysbyt ymddangos y proses, mae'n rhaid i'n creu ymddangos ymddangos ymddangos ei gwerthoedd yn gwybod ar ysbyt yw. Felly hynny'n gweithio'r traelor, sy'n gweithio bod yn diwylliant i'r hyn. Rwy'n ddyn nhw'n gweithio'r cyhoedd. Felly rydym yn sfeithio yn cydweithio'r cyhoedd. Mae'r ddweud o'r cymdeithasol i'r adroddau HLP. Ysbetholist, Ibir, yn gweithio'r adroddau o hyd yn cael ei gweithio'r adroddau. Rwy'n ddyn nhw'n ddyn nhw'n gweithio'r adroddau ar yr adroddau Laiolol, ac rwy'n cael ei gwybod gwahodd o'u clywed o'i gweithio clywedol a'i gyfer hynny o gyfer hynny. A wedyn, rydw i fy nghylch yn mynd i fod yn y bryd ymgyrch, rydych chi'n bod ni'n gweithio'r cyfnod ac yn ymgylch ar y gyrweithio, yn amlwg a'r gweithio ymgylch ar y llaw o'r ddweud ymgylch arall, a'r gweithio ymgylch ar y ddweud ymgylch ar y cyffredin wedi gweld o'u cyfnod ymgylch, i'r gweithio ar y gweithio ar y chyfl, I am fyw i'r pethau oherwydd yn cael ei gweithio. Mae'r llwysoedd ffawr i'n gofynnwys i'r grwp yn dweud â'r newydd. Felly, mae'n mynd i ddweud ym mwyn ffwrdd o'r ffordd i ddweud yng Nghymhwyl hlp yng Nghymhwyl. A'r cyffredin iawn i'n gwybod i'r ffordd o'r hlp gweithio yng Nghymhwyl hlp yng Nghymhwyl yng Nghymhwyl wedi ddod i ddweud. Yn diwrdd John Nrur yn dymlwy, ac mae'n gallu cyfan yw'r collegau ifyngau yma yn y maen nhw, ac yn ym pawr, strun gweddoli'r cyfan. Wrth gwrth i ddweud, Oflodiumia. Hynny, rwy'n cael ei wneud maen nhw. A gwneud i gyd yn cael ei ddweud o gyd y cwntecau, ni'n ymddangos ei ddweud a yw i'r cwestiynydau'r cwestiynau ar y CEO, o homework oを HLP? Yr iechyd o'r Lodiumia? I'm really glad to have this opportunity to present a little bit about what we are now on the compensation file in Ukraine. Just some technical notes. I hope you can hear me well and you can see me well, otherwise just let me know in the chat. So as we have quite heavy agenda for today, I wouldn't spend much of your time on some introduction part. I just want to say that my name is Volodymyr Parbaladze. I work with NRC and also I'm co-ordinate HLP technical working group in Ukraine with SITs under the protection shelter cluster. And during the last few years, one of the main focus of our work and our advocacy is compensation, access to the compensation and restitution mechanism for Ukrainians who are affected by the first loan, the compensation. So in this very moment, I would like to start sharing my screen. I hope you can see their presentation. Yes, we see it well. So actually, in the photograph, there is a multi-storey housing in Borolianka, you might hear about the city, which is one of the most affected city in the Kyiv region. So I would like to start with a brief explanation of the background. Where we are now in Ukraine. Some of the aspects which are grouped in three different groups like positive aspects, neutral one, and the negative or challenges we have to address in order to be able to provide compensation and restitution to the conflict affected city in the Kyiv region. So I would like to start with a brief explanation of the background, where we are now, what we have in place. a'r tyfnod ychydig i'w cyd-dweud wedi'i adreff ychydig i'r bwnnig i'r gwneud y cysylltu i'r fathau a'r dweudach sy'n ddweud, fel y cyd-dweud yna'r ysgol o'r newydd yr ysgol yn ysgol i'r Cyfrwyr 21r, sydd ydy eu cyfrwyr yn ysgol i'r ddweud i'r cyfrwyr rysg Lryf yn ysgol i'r cyfrwyr ysgol i'r Cyfrwyr Ac o'r cyfnod, y dyfodol yn ein bod yn ei wneud yn y byddwyr yn cyfnod yn gyfwng hwnnw, sy'n dydw i'r ffwrdd ymlaen yn ymweld i'r ysgol yma ar hyn yn y ddiwrnod 80 yryn. O'r ffwrdd ymlaen cyfnod, rwyf yn cael ei ffyrdd hwnnw'n cyd-dwyngol yma, ymlaen yn cyfnod o'r ffyrdd ymlaen, o'r cyfnod yn wneud yn y ffwrdd ymweld. The first thing that this extremely important, that at this moment we have really really strong political will to establish the competition mechanism to the compensation framework for conflict affected people. Actually it makes our work a little bit easier because the president of Ukraine has been stated that every conflict affected people, every conflict affected person with the damage to destroyed housing, will be restored in their rights. However, the only thing that of course some mechanism should be developed and implemented by the responsible stakeholders and we already have the direct order from the president of Ukraine to the cabinet of minister to intensify the work in this direction. So, the second one is actually quite related to the first one that we already have the ongoing legislative initiative. I will explain it a little bit more in details in the next slides, just want to say that at this moment we already have the compensation draft law successfully registered in the Ukrainian parliament and successfully passed the first hearing in the Ukrainian parliament. However, the legislative process requires three hearings until the adoption, so two more steps is still required to make this draft law as a law. The third one is that Ukrainian government already has some positive experience of the previous implementation of the compensation mechanism in Ukraine because, as you may already know, two years ago Ukrainian government has adopted the compensation mechanism for destroyed housing in Donetsk and Lohansk oblast and they have been implementing this mechanism for two last years and hundreds of beneficiaries receive compensation for completely destroyed housing. So, we already have some strong lesson learned from these mechanisms and how it was implemented, what should be amended in order to enable as much people as possible to access this compensation mechanism. The last one, during the first four months of the conflict, we already have some legal documents partially covering the compensation mechanism. Of course, it's not establishing the compensation mechanism itself, however, we already have adopted on the level of the cabinet of ministers the methodology on the damage assessment. To be quite honest with you personally, I think that this mechanism might work because they even foresee different procedures, for example, for light damages, for small damages and also completely different procedures for completely destroyed housing and assessing the scope of the damage. Moving forward to the some neutral aspects, we just have to consider during our work which we cannot put in the positive on the negative, this is just the fact we have to work with. The first thing that the president of Ukraine has stated that the primary focus of this work is going to be on the restitution of property, I mean not restitution of rights, but restitution of property or reconstruction. The primary aim to reconstruct what has been damaged and what we have a capacity to reconstruct and provide compensation only in that cases when reconstruction is not possible. The second one currently the primary focus is only on the conflict affected housing. Of course, we do understand that the compensation file is much more complicated and it includes a lot of the different types of the property, however, it has been stated very clearly that the first focus on the housing and after the issue with the housing will be solved. Solved, we can think about the non residential property, private assets, land plots and so on. The third factory is a cross cutting digitalisation agenda in Ukraine. Actually the digitalisation digitalisation activities of the Ukrainian government is one of the priority which has been stayed by the by the by the landscape cabinet of ministers. So what I mean practically that any actions, for example, application for compensation application that your housing has been damaged or destroyed should be adjusted in a way that applicants should have a possibility to apply for them online using their smartphones or using their laptops. Well, of course, there is still an option to do it in a person through administrative centres for providing all the governmental services but any procedure adopted by Ukrainian government should be adjusted in a way to enable the online application. And the last one neutral is there is a significant need for the technical support, and I would like to pay a particular focus to this because at this very moment, at this particular days, some responsible person within the cabinet of ministers is working on the developing this compensation mechanism. And let's be honest that the situation on the ground is quite complicated. We have a lot of different legal challenges connected with heavy bureaucracy in terms of the property ownership legislation. We have different situation of the even presence of the ownership documentation in the rural areas. So, in order to be able to develop the comprehensive and accessible compensation mechanism, there is still a quite strong requirements from the government to support them in this development. And they are extremely open. I haven't been worked with any of the government who are open as Ukrainian one and they provide, they open to any suggestion, any ideas, and this is quite an important thing during our work. The last one is negative and also this is also important that we have to consider the first one, lack of data. And this is one of the most important challenge we have at this moment because I would like to mention some of the figures we have at the moment, but give me a second in this. So, the figures we have are quite fragmented, only fragmented. So, for example, in Ukraine, we have already established the mechanism for conflict affected people to claim that their housing has been damaged or destroyed. It's not the application for compensation, it's just to claim to state that your housing has been affected by the conflict, and then it is tasked to the government to verify this information. At this moment, we have 135,000 applications of the damage or destroyed housing. And if we talk about figures on the square, it's 9,400,000 square meters conflict affected housing. But also what is important to say that it's based on the approach when people just state and these figures are not verified at this moment. Another thing and other figures that we have that, for example, it's just in some part of Ukraine in some region, for example in Kiev, region we already have figures about like 5,000 residential building has been damaged or destroyed. And I mean, even the multi-storied houses you've seen on the first slide, it's gone just as a one, however we understand the amount of the apartments which are in this building. So the problem is that we don't have the consolidated data for the Ukraine, but I know that some of the partners has been started working jointly with the shelter cluster on the consolidated data and also Ukrainian government making some actions in order to have this data collection process more streamlined in one way in order to have the consolidated data further. The second one is lack of coordination. Maybe it's a little bit strong wording, but the situation is now that we have some of the ministries which is responsible for different aspects of the compensation procedure. For example, we have Ministry of Reintegration, which is generally responsible for overall integration of internal displaced people. However, we have the Ministry of Regional Development, which is overall responsible for the housing policy. And for any regulations related to the construction, reconstruction, and so on. We also have the Ministry of Infrastructure, which is might be the main stakeholders in terms of the fund for the reconstruction of Ukraine. So currently in this moment, this coordination is only on the stage of being established, so I hope this challenge will be addressed in the nearest future, but now this is the situation we have on the ground. The next one is lack of the clear concept how the restitution mechanism would look like. I will probably I will say a little bit more on this during the two next slides when I will explain what we have in place on the compensation initiative. However, there are just a few words as a spoiler that the compensation draft law is more framework kind of the law. And in order to be implemented, the further bylaws should be adopted, which foresee how exact the compensation mechanism will look like. And the next one is of course lack of the access to some areas. At this very moment we have been, we have a few areas of Ukraine, for example, like Kiev region, Sumi region, Chernihiv region, which is completely under the governmental control and it is already an opportunity to start doing something in terms of the provision of the compensation restitution. However, the most affected areas south of Ukraine and east of Ukraine are still under the control, partially under the control of Russian forces or the facto authorities in the Netskin-Lohansk oblast and there is now even access to assess the scope of the damages, not even talking about the provision of the compensation itself. And the last one, ongoing hostilities in the south of Ukraine and the east of Ukraine, the new damages happen in daily basis because of the ongoing hostilities have quite severe nature and it is another challenge for the government to address this issue, how they can provide any compensation mechanism in the areas when the new damages happen on a daily basis. Then I would like to move forward to the next slide about these few words about the compensation draft law. So what I would like to start with, as I said before, this compensation draft law is the direct result of this state of the president of Ukraine that every conflict affected people receive compensation or restitution. So one of the member of parliament of Ukraine has been initiated this draft law and currently they are in the process of preparing this draft law to the second hearing. So when we have them, so the situation which I'm going to briefly explain in the next couple of minutes why it might be a little bit changed in the next weeks or in the next months. The first thing I would like to start with is that this draft law is only covered the conflict affected housing, but they include the objects which was under the construction on the moment of this war started. So this draft law completely not covering non residential property and any other kind of the property, it's only for the housing. The next one, they foresee that the potential beneficiaries is owners, heirs of the owners, investors in terms of their objects under construction. Also, it's like some of the Ukrainian novell of the Ukrainian legislation is members of the housing cooperatives. It's kind of like still inheritance from the Soviet time and owners as owners association. We talk about places which are shared in the multistoric heart. The next one, responsible implementer will be settlements level local authorities. So on this level. So the local authority will be completely responsible for them for establishing the damage committee damage commissions and also the compensation commissions, which will make the final decision. Who will receive compensation and amount of this compensation. So everything will run the level of the settlements level local authorities. However, it's still unclear who will be supervising this activity on the central level. It's going to be all under the Ministry of Reintegration and Ministry of Regional Development. The next one, it's probably the most tricky one. It's from the text of the draft law is clearly understandable that the government decided to have a strong evidence based approach to decision making. So practically it means that if you want, if any person want to receive the compensation, this person should prove the ownership to the conflict affected house. And of course that the base of them and that the first step in order to receive the compensation is to ensure that you are legal owner of the house. The second aspect of this evidence based approach that in the in the most simple cases when there are only some windows broken doors broken roofing. There is going to be no need to invite the special experts who have expertise on the construction. So it's going to be just under the decision of the local authorities. However, if you house a heavily destroyed, there is a need to invite construction experts who can assess professionally the level of this level of damage and the cost of the cost of its reconstruction because it will do that. Because it will directly related to the amount of the compensation. And the last that the next one is vulnerability criteria that the law initiatives said that, of course, of course there is no going to be any discriminatory policy within during the implementation. Everyone regardless of the state of the age sex location social position should have the equal rights to receive compensation, however, there is going to be a vulnerability criteria so those people who are in the most vulnerable situation will receive the compensation first. And the last one is transferring the claim on rights to Ukrainian government. So, in order to receive the compensation, there is a need to have separate contract with the government under which the claim on for the compensation transferring any further claim on rights to the Russian Federation, or to the de facto authorities to Ukrainian government. So, if the person received compensation under the Ukrainian law, there is no further rights to be a claimant in terms of the further potential court hearings with the Russian Federation. And the last probably, but definitely not the least that the compensation law for a three ways of the three forms of the compensation, the first one is a financial compensation and just like money. The next one is a natural compensation when applicants will be provided with a new housing. And the last one is a reconstruction of own property, I mean this sharing shared property within the multi storage houses. So, the last slide, I just want to say a few words about each of these forms. The first form is financial compensation, technically just money. So, it's only applicable for damaged houses. If people, if any person, they made one exception, if person has an individual private housing, which is destroyed. I mean, not an apartment, but just like the balance, the individual housing, they also can apply for the financial compensation. And there is going to be a spending limitation, so they consider it is a targeted assistance. So, it's still not clear which exactly the spending limitation will look like, but we expect that person who received financial compensation might have a chance to spend it only for new houses. The last one amount, amount of the compensation, this amount of the compensation will be determined upon damage assessment. So, how much will it cost to reconstruct the house, so this exact amount of money people should receive the compensation. But there is two more limitations. The first one, if the cost of reconstruction is actually higher than just to buy a new house, people will not receive the amount of this more than the cost of reconstruction. In the last one, the amount of compensation could not exceed the market price of 150 square meters. The next one is a natural compensation, it's quite also tricky and interesting one. So, by the natural compensation, they means the construction of new houses with a further transferring ownership rights to the applicants. So, this kind, this form of compensation will be applicable only for the completely destroyed houses. And what is also important that this new housing must be built in the same area in the same settlements. Well, actually in the law, it is written that in the best case scenario, the new house should be built even on the same land plot. However, it is not practically possible, they allow to build in the same settlements just nearby the previous location. And the person applicants had the right to reject an offered object and independently choose another one, even if some private company construct the new house, they can just choose it. And if the price of the new house meet the standards for this compensation procedure, they have the right to do so. Another thing, the new house in any case should be bigger, could not be bigger than 150 square meters. And the last one, it's going to be limitation in order to the applicants and the people who receive new house will not have the right to sell this new housing for the next three years. The last one is corn property. I mean, this is just, you know, the shared, the shared places in the multi-storey house. So the concept is quite simple, they just want to find the reconstruction through owners' associations. And it's only applicable for the damaged and multi-storey residential units. So at this moment, this is really, really briefly what we have in Ukraine in terms of the context overview and the currently existing legislation issues. But I would be really glad to answer any of the questions in the end of the meeting or it's up to Eugene to motivate it anyway. Thanks, Floddomir. Yeah, no, thank you. That's really insightful, helpful and a great overview of what their current situation is with the compensation law. I think, I mean, it's good to hear that there's some positives and some good things there, but also some challenges and really helpful for you to pick out some of those key parts there. I'm going to hand over to John Unrhe now who's going to talk a little bit about some of the work he's been doing and then Floddomir will come back to some questions once John's introduced what he's been working on as well. And, you know, that this is part of an effort in this sort of real-time formulation of these policies, these laws, these practices. How can we see what else is going on around international best practice for these things as well and how can we be part of that conversation as well. So John, over to you. Jim, appreciate it and thank you, Floddomir, for your leadership on this really important issue and your very in-depth knowledge about what's going on in Ukraine. So maybe just to start things off, we could talk a little bit about the last words that Jim just said, sort of a look internationally and what's kind of broadly seen in some cases as best practice or what's worked well elsewhere and how that might contribute to the Ukraine situation. But in reading the law and the associated materials, there's also the reverse. I see that a lot that is in the Ukraine law and that material contributes to international best practice as well because a lot of it is very forward thinking and very, very progressive. So it's fantastic to see that. But what I would find exciting about this is to tap into the knowledge and experience of everyone present here in this idea of comparing best practice, comparing what's worked well elsewhere, what the international donors might expect in terms of moving forward with large scale support of Ukraine in reconstruction and its compensation efforts, including where to get that funds, those funding, and how to make things happen in a fairly timely manner. And that, and kind of bring that outside look and kind of integrate it or kind of compare it with what Vladimir has just talked about and with the law itself. So I think Jim distributed earlier that law, I'm hoping the link works, I know there were some glitches there. Jim also sent around a quick guidance note that some of us had put together regarding some of the kind of the larger questions of the international view versus Ukraine's reality. So maybe just to start things off, I could just throw something out there and we can respond to that or we could, we could respond to other things as well. And to respond if you could either wave your hand physically or better virtually put your hand up so that we can, we can call on you. So if you wave your hand virtually actually to remember that whereas if you, if you, if you put it up electronically then, then it's always there so we can get at that so I'm not, we get 55 people I can't see everyone so I'm going to have to page through my view here and in order to find people so I'll apologize if we don't go in the order of the raised hand. I am at zoom here. So I guess one big issue that that I have is that we have approximately 12 million people right so that are dislocated so that's refugees plus, plus the internally dislocated. So if we wind down the conflict and I think most of us would like it to go one way versus another. That 12 million is going to all start to return that that 12 million is is a lot of people, and it's a lot of people that's going to hit this process, more or less, all at once. One question I have is that the some of the aspects of the law that require a case by case look at at the applications at the assessment of damage, the, the local level consideration of each and every application, verifying it, defining how much compensation, etc. Some of the other aspects of the law which require if you don't have documents you get assistance in trying to get those documents in order to file your claim. So, I'm kind of concerned that this, these numbers of returnees are going to be quite overwhelming. And is there the capacity that doesn't Ukraine have the capacity to handle all that. I think that there will be some agreement, or maybe around the virtual room here that no, no country is actually able to do that so you would get kind of the biggest superpower, and they wouldn't handle these numbers coming into to a claims process. And so, we can tell the people please be patient, wait your turn that waiting, of course, can go on for years. And people actually don't don't wait for too long before they get really disgruntled. They have to be supported they have to eat that percentage kids of school they have to drink water they have to get employment they have to be secure, all of that costs huge money. Right, so, so there's a cost. There's a human cost and economic cost to having people wait their turn in a process that that seeks to go kind of person by person. So just I throw that out there, and, and tap into some of the expertise in the room here and see if there's any, any thoughts on on that and if, and, and where else we might want to take the discussion. Igor still needed. Sorry for this I'm just trying to unmute myself I managed right, you can hear me. Good. Okay, so first, thank you very much for inviting me nice to see so many familiar faces here. John great work. Thank you very much for the, for the very comprehensive update or where the things stand in Ukraine. You know, I'm not going to use the words out of the word I'm president, but it is, and there is no question about that in terms of destruction in terms of human relations in terms of everything. It's a it's a really unique situation in a way that we have massive destruction massive human relations happening in the same time but in the same time a state with more or less relatively ready actually more than the other states that we have seen in our work in other places you know, ready actually to do something, you know, and there is a political will to do it. So that's good. So the wall over the wall of the mid was dividing the things on positive and negative and neutral, you know, on the, on the, on the, on the negative side, I would say it's massive on the positive side. I would say, you know, it is a state which has institutions, which with a sufficient, you know, upgrade and update and support might be actually able to process the law itself. I had a very brief opportunity, you know, to quickly look through go through it. It's not a bad law from. I mean, I have seen much more what's lost. So it doesn't it's not a bad law but there are some gaps which are already identified. One of the gaps is the, the mass claim processing, you know, it's, you know, the way it's envisaged now it's not going to happen. This dimension assessment that John mentioned on a case-to-case basis is going to be extend the process too long. It's going to spend a lot of resources, consume a lot of resources from the institutions in Ukraine. So maybe a simple way can be or should be, should be found. The other thing about the law is that envisage a creation of two new institutions to where I understand these two new institutions, the commission and the register they do not exist at the moment. And these needs to be created from scratch. And this is going to be a really, really big work that needs to be done. And also the question is, you know, whether the law envisages sufficient resources in terms of number of people's stuff and competencies for these institutions. We have seen in our work, John, myself, others who are here, many commissions consist of too few judicial personnel who are not actually capable to process 120,000 claims by themselves, you know, and they have zero support from a secretary. So it is not very clear. Perhaps it will be regulated by the bylaws, which is good because it's a generic, so it could be modified by bylaws. Now these bylaws basically should also provide that people who are making decisions, the commissioners, with sufficient information and sufficient support in terms of stuff. So that's one of the critical things. And the challenge from human rights perspective would be the provision that they have to sign a contract, the claimants with the state that they will not be able, they will not sue, or they will not force you to claim anywhere else. That might be challenging. And we need to see whether what would be the response of the Venice Commission or maybe some other institutions to the law, which will review the law. So it might be a human rights challenge over there. And the last thing that I'm going to mention is the vulnerability criteria. I think it needs to be expanded. I may perhaps maybe a bit more refined, because many of those people who are IDPs and refugees are in the same time victims of other human rights relations, not only loss of land and property, but some of them are victims of sexual violence. Many of them have lost their families, etc. So in terms of prioritisation, there has to be probably a better and more modern ones definition. And one last word, finally, I think this is very important and it's very good that it's convenient because for quite some time we have been talking about the importance of the links between transitional justice and durable solutions. And this is very important, because I think in Ukraine it's actually the place where we will be able not only to see, but actually try to do some changes in terms of linking more the transitional justice sector and the durable solution sector. So I will stop here. Thank you very much. And thank you for the good work, everyone. Thank you. Thanks Igor. John, I don't hear you. John, we see you, but I can't hear you. John, we see you, but I can't hear you. John, I'm sorry, glitches. Anybody else with the comments? So I see two hands raised and then there was a couple of comments in the chat as well. So maybe we could take the comments with the hands raised. Just about, it's a little bit in and out. So maybe turn your camera off, John. I don't know if you can. How's that? Yeah, that's better. Yeah, yeah. LeGrand, did you have your hand up? Yes, can you hear me? Yes, we hear you. Yeah, I'm with, I'm a shelter, one of the shelter guys at Bureau of Humanitarian Assistance. People may know me. Two questions. One very interesting question was done. I mean, really good presentation, by the way. This is really the financing of a shelter program. And it's going to take a long time as everybody's indicated. So my first question is how can the humanitarian shelter activities take place while the overarching bigger development and recovery activities are taking place under this law that you're talking about right now, because it's going to be many, many, many years. I mean, our experience shows that it's three to five years before it's any kind of reasonable recovery and housing in these major operations. And we seem to lose track of the humanitarian shelter activities, handshaking with the development activities. In other words, take care of the humanitarian activities on the ground building up while the larger infrastructure processes from the top start building down and how those two meet. I'd be interested in how someone sees how we can coordinate those two issues. And the second question deals with quality of construction and how we're going to how we're going to guarantee good quality and how we're going to take care of the asbestos issue. I would suspect because it's all concrete Russian type construction. There's a large amount of asbestos that's going to be in the rubble over. Thank you. Yeah, good questions. I'm wondering if, as these questions come in, if maybe sometimes, I mean, sometimes I'm thinking that maybe Vladimir or others can maybe have a response to the specific questions so we can attend to those. So, so for the last two questions with Igor McGrond, anybody respond want to respond specifically to those maybe before we move on. I would get forward. Sorry, sorry, yes, because I was thinking that this is a time to jump in. I would definitely can answer the second one about the building standards and this is not going to be an issue because currently in Ukraine we have this Ministry of Regional Development which is responsible for the, for the development of the comprehensive policy on the protection of the, of the, of the building construction and so on. So, each of the building standards is quite updated from the recent times and I think it's going to be one of the prayer requirements during this reconstruction to ensure that the new construct new houses will meet the standards under the Ukrainian law. Another thing, of course, it's going to be how the shelter humanitarian shelter actors will coordinate with the Ukrainian stakeholders in order to also meet the Ukrainian standards not on the international one, but I think this is something that is very manageable to do, just when we have the facilitation of the shelter cluster and the government is quite open for the discussion. Thank you. Appreciate it. Let's see any other hands up. So I see three hands, john I see a beer day, then Ryan, so maybe we could take those and then come back to those. Those maybe if you could come on. Yeah, I'll keep an eye on those and yeah a bear age you want to come in. Thanks. Yeah. So my question is just taking a step back and, and reflecting a bit on what we're discussing and and I think that it seems that we are discussing an issue of reconstruction of post art reconstruction and we're not discussing particularly an issue of property restitution, which is traditionally the issue that that triggers the development of this type of compensation and restitution commissions, like we've seen in in Colombia or in possible Bosnia. It's completely different phenomena that we're looking at in Ukraine and talking about reconstruction so. And I think that framing it as compensation brings more difficulty to the process because that means that we need to do proper damage assessment of each of the properties that been damaged and, and then the compensation to the damage etc. And this reconstruction is not going to be done this way. And we all know that even doing just the rest of props the property restitution is very difficult to do with a commission. Imagine doing the reconstruction on top of that. It's not going to happen this reconstruction is going to be self driven on the driven. But when we're talking about reconstruction, we should be talking about how to remove obstacles for market forces to work to provide resources for the people that don't have resources reconstructed themselves, and so forth so on and so forth. So I think that. Yeah, so my question is just now why frame it as compensation and not just as reconstruction. Is that to answer, if my eye. Yeah, of course. Well, it's tricky question and let's be honest, I will try to explain why we use this terminology of course. First of all, we do understand that even the compensation the financial compensation of course is a part of the restitution of violated property rights itself, the general umbrella. In Ukraine, the stakeholders use restitution in two different meanings. The first one when we call what we're talking about like the restitution of the property. It's. Well, the first one is restitution of the property when they just build a new house. It's provided to the applicants and in this way, restitute the violated right so that they call it like restitution of the property. However, we do understand that there is like restitution of the rights, which is mostly taken in place in if we have such issues as a secondary occupation and so on. Restitution of the rights, which is most usually most commonly used in the international community. It's not a thing here in Ukraine, we mostly talk about the restitution of property. And the thing is why they frame the provision of restitution of the property at the part of the compensation. First the question of the to the to the government, but let's be. Let's be honest on this point, I don't think that at this very moment they wouldn't consider their rewarding of the world of restitution to compensation and so on at the first priority. So, we can point their attention that you can reframe it in a different way, but if it works for them. Okay, we can understand that on the Ukrainian legislation, there are two types of. Thanks, john, I'm seeing there's two more hands raised and I was just thinking in the interests of time if we take those two questions and have a response and then we'll probably need to move on to the other items on the agenda. You know, but this is the start of a conversation but maybe if we can hear from Ryan and then, or Laura's just crept in there, good work, Laura. Ryan, Max Maratheon and then we'll go to Laura and then we'll. Yeah, if that's okay, we'll then have a response and then tie this this part together. Ryan, do you want to come in. Yeah. Thanks Jim so I just have a quick comment and then a question was that and while we're also talking about the longer the time period for. Let's say housing compensate everything we also need to factor in the cluster munitions and the minds that have been present with no. In rural areas and the demining action itself along gets the time for one evaluation of the minds present in these areas and in the demining process in the post demining evaluation itself. And this obviously affects in our own areas the quality of construction that is undertaken in these spaces, but in the rural areas, especially when they're in agriculture and farmland areas. That actually had in the previous instance has has caused people to move towards urban settlements in the first place which in itself creates more housing stresses in urban setups altogether which obviously compounds on situation in the cities. The question that I had was, I've been read the law that you guys posted the link off in the chat, but I had a question that once the refugees start doing the Ukraine territory is there is an interim period before the case is considered, and actually as a result given whether we turn to their, but true housing land and property, where they, where they basically settled before the wall. There are three measures being placed in regards to avoid ghettoization or development of informal slums during the consideration of the cases altogether. Because looking at past case in Afghanistan in India, even though those were in the case of IDPs, that when cases took years to be considered the familiar setups, especially when children had to go to schools and have to be led them to settle in informal slums so they could access a public school that is relatively cheap to so again it's like a generation thing in the generation mobility aspect. Thanks Ryan. Good question. So we'll take the questions comments from Max Moratti and then Laura will come back to a lot of me I think john might have dropped off so it's good that we're recording this so you can catch up. He's back. He's back. He's back. Thanks. Okay, Max Moratti please come in. Yes, thank you Jim. Yeah, maximum Max Moratti is my user. I have three questions. Three questions I think for for Vladimir but also building on what the other colleagues as mentioned, because I work on them in 2016 2017 I was part of the consultations with the Council of Europe for the law that provided compensation for IDPs from Donbas. So it will be happy to hear from Vladimir if there has been any what is the status of implementation of those laws and either might be a conflict between the displacement of our displacement. This is the first question. The second one and also thinking of what Igor was saying a few moments ago. I mean, I know that those entitled to compensation are also investors. And to some extent they're also we're also talking about legal persons in some aspect associations of owners something like that, but also people who finance and invested. So I was wondering if we have to make priorities. Shouldn't we add the status of IDP as a person who has lost their property, rather than people who have simply invested in a future properties that we have not been completed. And the third question I mean thinking also about, you know, potential minority groups and I'm thinking about their own money. I'm not clear if the law foresees the possibility for asking for compensation for informal settlements. So properties that were not, you know, formally registered and the weather was was a bit of a regular situation, and so on. And so these are three questions and we are finally would agree I mean the task is really massive there is, you know, we're talking about millions of people. But again I see, as you know it was mentioned previously, this is more an issue of let's say compensation and reconstruction rather than dealing with secondary occupation secondary occupants. At the moment this is not an issue. Thank you. Thanks Maximo. Laura, do you want to come in and then we'll give a final word to Vladimir and John and then gather these questions and use them to help us guide and develop another session on this in the future. Laura, please. Thank you. Thank you all and many thanks to Vladimir and our colleagues on the ground for the very useful presentation. I actually wanted to also ask about minorities and renewable group and I also wanted to hear if there is any specific provision. Vis-à-vis women and access to compensation and restitution for women given also that we know in the refugee response and the ADP response there are quite a lot of now women who are becoming head of household. And then I also really wanted to share some of the experience from from Syria currently still working on the Syrian response. And we are very far in Syria from even having a draft law on potential HLP or restitution and compensation and we are you know more than 11 years now into the conflict. But we are still trying to prioritize activities that are key in advancing a potential HLP mechanism, even when this mechanism will be established for Syria, because I think the situation is different. But I think one, two important lessons learned from the Syrian response if it can be any inspiration for our colleagues working in Ukraine is the importance of including and continue to advocate for including HLP language in a potential peace framework. You know agreement of some sort that can be the result of a political process I think this is a key point that we are in an RC here continue to advocate. But then we are also working to really enhance the capacity of professional including lawyers but other professional that will be key for you know facilitating some of these the scheme that is in vision in the draft law. And I think Professor John Uro said it very well you know country can do this on their own, and clearly any, you know, profession, including lawyers in Ukraine will be or engineer will be really overwhelmed, even when the time comes for you know, putting in a vision implementing what the law sets out, and then really the importance of carrying out information counseling legal assistance and really raising awareness with the displaced population on HLP documentation and preserving HLP documentation again one of the major lessons learned here from this year response is that many refugees and IDP unfortunately have lost their document. And so with the loss of these and the lack of these documentation of course, we know that their rights are weaker and their position if and when a restitution mechanism will be put in place will be weaker. So these were some of the some of the lessons learned some of the work that we are doing as part of this response. Thank you very much. Thanks Laura. Good to hear from you. And there's other questions in the chat as well and I think the richness of the comments and the questions show what you know unnecessary and really interesting area. John, Floddermey, let's let's pass over to you for a couple of final comments and then. And then I think, yeah, as I said, I think what we can do is johns agreed to sort of help sort of draw together a group to look at this sort of area in more detail and we can have a more dedicated time to this because I think there's such a rich area of discussion and and also some like, you know, genuine pulling together the experience of this group is invaluable. So, yeah, Floddermey, John, a final comment and then we'll move on to the next items. Thanks. Okay. Great. Thanks Jim. Thanks everybody for your really insightful comments appreciated. So lost going on. I guess one, the one thought I might have is kind of the broad context and direction of our, of our discussion and maybe a lot of American can comment on this. So the draft laws in the first reading of Parliament, it's gone through that there are two more. I guess I'm wondering if a subset of the group here wants to proceed forward with our discussions, and come up with maybe a small tightly worded contribution. I'm able to submit that to Parliament for consideration. And so in such a contribution we might have for example, other cases, similar to what Ukraine is experiencing and how that, how that went so in other words provides some background material for consideration to to Parliament might we have the to do that as a kind of a goal of these these discussions. So, so I'll end that with that question to Vladimir. Thanks. Okay, okay, let me start like really briefly answering the question that I managed to catch. I will start with the last one about the prioritisation of any particular vulnerable groups and any groups which require some special protection measures. The first one, the draft law prescribes directly priority for family with the many children's. The second one, children, the second one, people with disability and the last one, ex combatants. What about protection of women and another categories of applicants. It just have non discriminatory provision which say that access to compensation should be regardless of any of the status of gender age, as I said gender age location and so on. So, this is about first question the next one is about informal settlements now at this very moment, and it used to be practice, which a few years ago when we have compensation mechanism for the bus area of Nescom Hansgoblust only officially formally objects of residential property will be covered by the compensation, however, the, the opportunity for the advocacy work is to simplify registration process for informal settlements as much as possible in order to provide residents of such settlements also to receive the access to the compensation. And I think this is something which is not really negotiate negotiable with about provision for the informal settlements without any registration. The next one is about priority for investors, very good point and this is something that is definitely the voice for the government. And the last one is the conflict between two procedures, the which was existed before which we are currently working, this is not going to be a place because it was geographical limitation on the Nescom Hansgoblust and I really think that in the end, in the very ending part of the bylaw it will be new provision which I say that the previous compensation mechanism is not in place anymore. I think this is everything I can do but if not I would be glad to answer someone later. Thanks a lot Amir. Yeah, trying to answer those questions in 30 seconds is not an easy task. But yeah, very much appreciated. So I think, I mean, there's some really good questions and it strikes me that, whilst there might be room for us to be making recommendations and drawing on other best practice and other experience, it might also be that there's some advocacy points in there that we want to push forward as well depending if, and that might be a separate process to something that we would submit as well. So, let's be interesting to think about that and talk more. Yeah, thanks so much everyone for that part of our discussion. I think that was really rich. We can gather all those questions because I think they're part of formulating some of the areas that need further consideration. And John's point there about, you know, if you would like to be part of a, you know, maybe a smaller group or a focus group on this then either put your name in the chat here or email me or John or Vladimir or whoever's contact details you have. And we'll do another kind of call out for this as well based on the mailing list, but I know that the mailing list sometimes, you know, gets spam filtered and all the rest of it so just want to give you the opportunity to register interests here. Well, thank you. Now let's move. I think because we have about 25 minutes left of our schedule time. Let's go to just sort of open it up for people to give very brief sort of one minute, two minute update on what they're working on. And this can be, it might be that you're part of a humanitarian operation and want to show what you've been doing on HLP it might be a particular challenge you're facing. It might be something else that you're developing but just a chance to open up and get share share what's going on and we'll do that for a while, and then come back to a couple of things just towards the end. Yes, open up Daniel. I see you had your hand raised, which I think came up at the end of the Ukraine conversation. Did you want to give an update on anything else? You're muted so we can't hear you just yet. Yeah, thanks so much. I wanted to ask a question about Ukraine issue, but as the time has already passed. Let me give some few elements regarding the situation in Bukinaw Faso. So on the legal issues, a process to to domesticate the compiler conversion started last in 2020 in Bukinaw Faso will be the support of UN issue and some international organization. And because of the military coup, this process to transpose the regional law into domestically legal framework is somehow stopped. But the issue is that what I observed at the international community humanitarian community is reluctant to to advocate the new authorities in order to make progress on this domestication process. This is the situation that's going on here. And regarding the HIV trends, the situation is critical with mass displacement that is putting much pressure on the housing and property issues across the country today. So this is the situation after 13 region impacted affected by the conflict. So this situation raise questions and needs about HLP. Thank you. Daniel, that's great. And yeah, on that domestication of compiler, I know a number of other colleagues are probably working on similar issues or facing that exact challenge. Do let us know in the chat if that's something you've worked on or if you might be able to offer any idea as to might assist Daniel. Something we can maybe come back to another time as well. Thanks Daniel. But anyone else like to give a short update on their work, their operation or their things that they're working on. You're very quiet. I've exhausted all your energy on the Ukraine discussion. Fatih, yeah, please come in. Hi, Jim. Hi, hi. Afternoon and morning and evening. But today, Gal, I'm from UN Habitat's GLTN. So I just wanted to jump in with a quick update. I think quite a few of you guys were part of our last launch on the woman land and peace messages, which was quite a successful launch. We've decided to move forward and actually create video animations on that content to kind of make it more accessible and share it widely through our network. So we're hoping to have that finished by the end of the summer and in September bring you guys all maybe back together to do a bit of like a validation session and see how that video is progressing. In addition to that, some of our work from the field, we've developed a training guide on advancing women's land and property rights, and it was adapted for the Somalia region. And we're actually getting ready to launch that as well. And so we wanted to have another webinar bring together some experts. And so if anyone here is interested in participating, I think I'll try to get help from Jim to kind of curate some of the email lists for that. We're hoping to do that early July to share the contents of that training guide to kind of also go over the process and why we thought it was important and maybe if any of the colleagues are interested in adapting similar training guides for their country contacts. Yeah, I'll end there. Thank you guys. Thanks so much Fatih. Good to hear from you and I'm guessing there will be people who definitely will be interested in that training that's been developed and yeah we look forward to learning more about that but yeah very much happy to help convene that process. Anyone else want to update? Actually, whilst you're thinking about whether or not you want to take that momentous leap and share something, we've got Iberia is going to give us a short update on, yeah from his work with the shelter cluster on HLP that we collaborate on a lot. So Iberia, over to you. Thanks Jim. Tried to make this very short. So I just want to share with you a bit of the work that we've been doing. So we're working on an online training on HLP. It's going to be focused on displacement crisis and mostly for CCM and shelter practitioners but of course that will benefit everyone. It's going to be an open course and the idea is to have a course that is more engaging and hopefully people want to do it and go through it. So I'm going to put online the content that we've been developing for the course and I'll be very happy if you had some contributions or some comments on the content. So the ideas that are going to be featured in the, in the training is most of the core of it is just two three and four to secure of tenure theory practice and then returns and property restitution. So what we have, it's to do that in a game-fied way so doing for the training to be based to have a core based on an interactive interactive video where people are going to be like first person and then have different branching stories according to the decisions that you make, because often that's the conundrum that we found ourselves in when you're doing HLP you have to figure out what you're going to do first we're going to consult if you're going to spend a lot of time checking the land registry or talking to the different government authorities or if you're going to go on the ground and talk to the neighbors, etc. And that consumes time and resources so try to play with those different different constraints. So, yeah, so I'll share later on the link for the online documents so that people can can comment on and then whoever wants to participate in this, designing of this training will be, will be great. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, that would be great to see that and to get some contributions and really make that as engaging as we can. Yeah, look forward to that and you mentioned that being sort of primarily for shelter CCCM but of course open to everyone. I saw I'll mention a couple of updates from the global side that relate to, I think, yeah the last two to commenters. So, I'm going to be attending the CCCM clusters annual meeting next week actually, and myself and Iberia hosting a session on HLP, and we're going to share kind of case studies around some challenges and responses. So, just wondering if there's anybody here who has worked with CCCM colleagues so camp coordination, camp management colleagues on HLP issues, or if you've observed issues in a particular context and we do look Marko's there he's put his camera on so I could see the CCCM background there we go. But if you have suggestions of case studies that would be great to understand that a little bit more like where some key ones are so I was in South Sudan last week so I was speaking to some colleagues there so I think we're going to share some of their examples as there was some particular challenges that they're facing. But be really good to hear others as well. So yeah, we can either put those in the comment or get in touch with me on the on the email. Second comment just to mention, I can't recall if I've said this before or not, but so the moment the HLP OR is coordinated by NRC is that the lead agency on that. You and Habitat are going to join as a co-coordinator in the coming months and there's just to let you know that's an ongoing process and hope to have someone here who's going to speak a little bit about that but in the end they couldn't make it so next time we're going to have a bit more of an update on that but I wanted to let you know just because you know it will probably be start getting discussed and you might start seeing things so just to let you know that so you and Habitat are going to be co-coordinating on the global level with the OR. Relating to firstly just want to say these meetings, if you have an area of interest and a subject you would like to have a focus on then please do let me know. It would be great to have presentations from either a particular country or on a theme and then a discussion around that so that's firstly something to have a think about and related to that is we have our newsletter that's a global update that goes out and it'd be great. Also if you have things that you wanted to share about, if you've got things to put out there, it could be events, it could be reports, learning, it could be a short thing, a long thing, a blog post, anything. If there's things that you would like us to share to the whole of the mailing list which is about 600 at the moment then let me know and it would be really good to include those. Also, the GPC, Global Protection Cluster is launching its version, is it 2.0 or 3.0, it might be 5.0 by now I'm not sure, but of its website and so we've put together, so we're having a look again at the text for that and again if you'd be interested in being part of a small team that has a quick look at that and make sure it's fit for purpose then please let me know either in the chat here or by email. I'll have a few of you that I will call on as well to look at that but if that's something you'd be interested in so thinking about that very basic level how do we communicate what the HLP AOR is about and please let me know. The other side from the global side is that we just started the process to recruit an HLP information management and coordination support person so that's going to be about two kind of main roles, there's going to be support to managing information data, how do we use it to facilitate more effective HLP coordination response, but also around advocacy and resource mobilisation. How do we tell better stories about what we're working on, how do we have real kind of data driven sort of stories that will really help us communicate better about what works going on so we're starting the recruitment for that and we need that role also to be someone who can work in French as well as English because we're also going to include some support on behalf of the AOR to the francophone countries as well so if you know people or if you are that person please let me know and it'd be great to. Yeah, to share the process once that's online so yeah that's something that's coming up in the next few weeks and months. And final point for me is I'm going to hand over to my colleague Ryan who's going to give us an update on a recent event that we co-hosted that is also part of a bigger project that the AOR is working on. Ryan over to you. Thanks Jim just let me get the presentation ready. So as Jim had mentioned we we'd hosted an event at the H&PW this year in Geneva on climate change, disaster displacement and housing land and property intersectionalities between the three elements. Which actually revealed a fair bit of overlap between what we are seeing now and how there are different agencies working on these thematics within their own mandates but there's a lot of gaps that exist in terms of both data collection implementation as well as consideration of what we see as emergency services as well as durable solutions. So, in terms of what inspired one the event and the larger project altogether is that the NRC, as well as the global protection cluster has seen that there's a significant overlap between climate displacement and longstanding issues of the issues which are also overlapped with ongoing conflict circumstances, prevalent in certain national scenarios, as well as access to natural resources, and restriction of livelihoods, particular agriculture education, or even vocational activities. So, this year, the NRC had applied for a grant with the government of Liechtenstein which we received to address this knowledge gap and the intersectionalities between climate change, displacement and H&P, and in collaboration with the global protection and the H&P OR. We have worked towards one assessing where these gaps exist, as well as trying to fill in these gaps, both through primary and secondary research initiatives conferences and events that self consolidate what we need to look at moving forward as the effects of climate change extension exacerbate in different national context. So, the three case studies that we've seen in during the event were from Mozambique, Somalia, and from the Pacific. From Mozambique we saw that the intensity and the rising frequency of cyclones that keep on washing on the African state has exacerbated the conflicts associated with resource crunches, forced migration as well as housing and security. One of the major issues that we've seen with H&P in that natural context was the loss of documentation that is very critical to the United States and therefore return of restitution became very, very difficult due to national laws prevailing there and currently as what we have seen from the spokesperson in Mozambique is that my laws are being adapted to sort of configure these circumstances, the process is still underway. Something that was of critical importance was the gender and children aspect, which we saw that because of the structures present in terms of land ownership in the country. So, these setups force male representation in terms of land ownership there for discriminated customs and patriarchal notions of who can own land and who can, who can this land return to inhibit access for women who may have, who may be separated, divorced or may have been, maybe just may just be bachelor's looking to turn to their land of origin or find new forms of settlement after displacement. I see that the desperate need to find documentation to show to bureaucratic officers goes on to lead to significant one waiting times and furthermore lead to a lot of confusion and a lot of distress already in times where some overlapping issues of, let's say, conflict displacement, familial separation, even gender insecurity. Now, in the case of Somalia, what we've seen is that similar thematic in terms of loss of tenure documents as well as multipliers of conflict, but an element that was unique to the case of Somalia was the food security issue that the coordinator in Somalia identified was that because of increasing food insecurity and the lack of agricultural produce, as well as lack of access to rural vocation, it has led to people to move towards urban settlements and create informal settlements around urban settlements altogether, which has led to one and increased dependence on these settlements and increase the burden in these places as well, and has also led to severe secondary displacements in terms in times of extreme weather events and environmental hazards, which leads me to the last case study was in the Pacific. The Pacific was, at least what we observed, was a completely unique set of circumstances where ancestral land were essentially isolated to specific islands and because of shrinking coastline inundation or increased salination, these communities are moving to new lands and it's led to intercommunal tension because of that migration, and for them are because of this tension or just entirely because of coastal displacement. The urban hotspots try to have informal settlements being set up around docks or on the outer rings of the settlements, which are often closer coastal areas for access to fishing or access to coastal based activities, which includes inter-island boating and etc. Now, because of this, it goes on to show that while these countries are working towards creating a compensatory or response frameworks to climate displacement, HRP is often seen as a long term or a middle term issue, and it's been sidelined as something that that will be addressed later on. But what we have witnessed is that HRP is actually central to a lot of the issues that they're facing because the lack of housing security leads to risk of trafficking, gender violence, as well as loss of vocation, lack of access to education, as well as discriminatory practice as such as indiscriminatory rent pricing, as well as forced homelessness. So, in the interest of ensuring that there's maximum access to the outputs of the next project, the NRC has set up a mailing list where you can sign up to receive regular publications that's coming out from other collaborative organisations, and as well as the events and any other material that we will be preparing during the duration of this project. You can scan the QR code and just follow the form. And yeah, thank you so much and back to you, Jim. Thanks so much, Ryan, and I realise in my haste I didn't introduce you properly so Ryan is working with the NRC in Geneva as an intern on policy and partnerships and he's got a real interest of background in HRP particularly in areas related to climate as well. So it's been great having Ryan working with us and he's working with us on this project. So there's going to be a briefing based on that event as well that will be available very shortly and I put links in to watch the event again on YouTube if you would like to do that. And yeah, thank you. So does anyone else have any last updates we've have a few minutes left and anyone else like to come in. There's some great stuff in the chat in case you haven't been looking yet. So I'd recommend it as a great place to hang out. I will give just a couple of minutes on I just got back yesterday from south Sudan, where I was there for about a week or so with. Yeah, to meet colleagues working on HLP and also as part of the global protection cluster had a mission there to support the cluster and HLP issues are everywhere in south Sudan, as I don't know if you know that or not, but they really are kind of a real underlying part of. Many of the challenges that have been faced and I was able to see lots of good work going into improve people's security of tenure but there was a real obvious need to link that to other types of support around shelter livelihoods and a real need for that integrated approach. Also linked to work that's being done but needed more of on access to justice rule of law of those kind of things and yeah there was a real case of these things really being joined up. And I'll give a much more detailed presentation next time and maybe actually while we're here I'll ask the south Sudan colleagues to join me in that so next meeting we can do something together maybe on that. Another part of the visit there was to. Yeah has led to us kind of elevating the HLP coordination a little bit there so we're activating an HLP and I'll see you're going to lead and that's going to be a great place to be. And I'll see you're going to lead and that's going to be happening. The process has begun to sort of developing to bring a little bit more visibility and create a bit of a wider forum open to dealing with those issues. And it was interesting because I spoke to colleagues working on GBV CCC shelter mine action access to justice rule of law. Women's access to land. All of them saying HLP isn't is needed to be thought about and these are much more integrated approach. And interestingly, the new matting coordinator relatively new I think she's been there six months convened a protection round table which was the first time I think that I've been done in the country and it brought together a lot of different actors working from across that you know humanitarian peace and development nexus. And it was really clear how much HLP issues cuts across so it could be a really interesting place to look at how we do that more integrated programming. Let's hope some people have the courage to do that. And yes we'll talk more on that next time. And yeah, I mean I think we might finish two minutes early unless anyone has a comment or a question or totally fine if you don't. And let's do one last cameras on and have a wave, if you're still here. And thanks so much for joining. Thanks. Thanks for the other contributors and presenters and yeah look forward to seeing you all next time. Thanks everybody. Thanks everyone. Thanks everybody. Thanks everyone. Thanks Jim.