 Hi, welcome all of you in this gaming session, how Indian gaming is changing the game. So, I also welcome all of my panelists. I want to begin with, you know, what to understand the state of Indian gaming landscape in India first, from all of you, like, what's the current state like. You guys, if you can, you know, introduce yourself, a brief intro first. What you guys... Hello everyone, good afternoon. I'm Keefi Singh, I'm co-founder at Hinvigate. Hinvigate is India's highest rated cricket game on Play Store and App Store. We have over 5 million users across 104 countries. And our vision is to build the best cricket game out there that can engage the billion cricket fans globally. Hi everyone, I'm Par, I'm the co-founder at Stan. It's been seven years for me in the gaming industry. I've looked at all the different genres starting from real-money gaming, hyper-casual, and now building something really interesting into communities of gaming. So Stan is about the gamers community platform. We believe that whatever communities existed today are not doing decent or a good job at it. So we kind of took that mission and it's a lot of esports, like little games like PUBG, pre-fire, follow-up duty. So you find our app on the Play Store depending on number three since the last five months. And we've got like close to 5 million gamers now. And people come to play, meet, make friends, and play with the creators and YouTubers which they really admire. Hi everyone, a very good afternoon. I'm Thrupthi and I'm also from Reliance Geo. It's like a startup, but yeah, and I manage the gaming segment of Geo, which is Geo Games, and mainly focusing on the user engagement and marketing. And yes, we do focus on the overall gaming ecosystem. We're a publishing platform and we are into different segments like esports and streaming as well. So as we go along, we'll talk a lot more about it. So we also have with us Samir. Samir, welcome to our summit. Can you hear us? We can't hear you. Samir, can you hear us? Yeah, I can hear you. Welcome, Samir. Thanks for having me there. I felt like that weird guy talking looking behind people's heads while they talk. I don't see three panelists. I don't see any of the audience, but thanks for having me here and for accommodating the fact that I'm not there in person. I and Samir, I lead the gaming sales for Cloud in Apan, for Google. Thanks for the introduction, guys. I was asking, you know, I want to, if you guys can throw the light on the current gaming landscape in the current state of gaming in India, you know, we can talk about it first. Samir, can you start? Sure. I mean, estimates are broad for, you know, anywhere between 3 to 4 billion. Out of that, roughly 1.8 to 2 odd billion is referred to as RMG. You know, in Apple, it's dominated by probably two games, roughly in the range of $620 to $15. And the balance $302.4 is looked at as the advertising revenue that happens from games. So that's from the broad range right now. I mean, yeah. Yeah, so what we have observed is there are around, totally around 800 million who are telecom users, I can say, out of which almost 80% of them are on internet. And almost around 450 million users are there who play on a, you know, regular basis, the total number of gamers in the country. And out of which almost 100 billion almost play on a daily basis. It ranges from casual gaming to, you know, esports professional level gaming as well. And yes, of course, I think a lot of technologies are adapting much more in the gaming segment and gamification further tools as such. Yeah, I think I've been looking at this space from almost like five, six years now. A lot has changed for the good. Obviously, thanks to Mr. COVID, we saw those golden years for our industry. And it's not been bad after that. It's actually been pretty good in the sense that there have been a lot of mature gamers who were very casual people. And I think the good part is the access to games has become pretty free and easy, like free-to-play games existed. And the content has been pretty interesting. Obviously, everybody talks about the games like Ludo, PUBG, Free Fire and all these have, you know, the table it offers, right? And that have led to be a strong driver. And obviously, we see mobile is something which is the dominating piece of it. I believe what I think 80% of the gaming audience would be playing on phone right now. And like Samir mentioned that close to 500 million gamers, I think the interesting piece which we are seeing today is 25% of these are paying, right? Which was close to like 10, 12% before. And it's growing like every year with like 20% more. So if you do the math, it's close to about 120, 140 million gamers who are paying in the games. And these would be spread across all those genres and categories which Samir was telling, like real-money gaming and in-app purchases. Interestingly, what we are starting seeing in stand where we have a community of gamers is people kind of are building trust faster with the product and spending more and repeat purchases is something which is coming up. So it's a golden era for the Indian gaming market. Your views, okay. Yeah, so as everybody has rightly said, gaming has come of age. And I think the interesting bit is not just on the consumer side, but on the ecosystem. Like I remember in 2015 when I was graduating from ISV, nobody thought gaming was a mainstream industry. People would think about building a career in EdTech and Pintech and Helltech and XTech. But gaming even though it was generating billions of dollars globally was picking up in India, it wasn't getting the limelight that it should have gotten. So that way I think it's very good to see that, you know, today young grads, engineers, MBAs, they're thinking about building a career in India. India is a consumption market, but we need creators as well. People who are making the PUBG for India, right? Games which can make Indians spend on in-app purchases. So that's where I feel that a big leap has happened where Indians are getting inspired to build games, not just for the Indian audience, but for the global audience as well. Alright, but if we talk about the gamers, are you seeing the change in the demographic of the gamers? Means the profile and everything? I mean we just heard that there's what, close to 30% female, 40% female gamers now? What, you know, a fellow panelist is talking about. So I think, and thanks to the content around like Candy Crush and all, which has led to a lot of spread and I think tier 2, tier 3, tier 4, that has kept on evolving in the last couple of years, right? And that's all because of I think the smart phones per iteration, which has happened. Like you can play a decent game on a smart phone which costs you like 4,000, 5,000 bucks. So even on our platform, we see close to like 35% tier 1 and rest of it is like the Bharat, right? Which is kind of loving this. And I think socializing is helping in gaming. And I think we are in the positive space and why it's growing so rapidly is because Indian population is generally very young, right? So I think 70 to 30 years of age is where the maximum bracket of, like you'll see the gamers there. So there's no drastic change there. But like I said, per iteration in the tier 2, tier 3 has kind of grown very rapidly. Sameer, I would like to know, you agree with the path or you use a different, what's your assessment? My assessment of sort of the demographics of our audience. Yeah. Yeah, I will probably pretty much be looking at it as a cross section. There's no new insight I can bring over paths as well. Okay. And what do you have to say on gaming is being now viewed as an entertainment on that? What are your views? So I think broadly you can see this as a, if you see this as how game the world, initially they would be just downloadable software that you end up paying for as entertainment. Soon enough it ended up having the second phase which was the ability to always be live services. So these were games that were not just sort of static pieces of object, but they really ended up having like with regular software updates being put out to them to keep users engaged. And it kind of became what we call games as a service. Soon enough it's kind of become games as a franchise where your own lower end story and characters are what we expand into trans-India. You've seen this happening with you know, triple A titans and especially single paid titans now. They're class of ours and Edwining Emmys and League of Legends expanding into you know, say Arcane and Netflix and you see more and more of that happened now as game pipeline began to end up in production. And finally where we are today is you know games as platforms, which is really the idea of games becoming 3D social worlds as envisioned originally by the likes of Roadblocks and our Fortnite Minecraft as soon enough GTAs. So that's how the clinical of what games will end up looking like and you're already seeing that being wrought out now about a year and a half ago, once Fortnite launched UEF and most it's very hard to get there because these need to be really thriving economies. You need to build tool sets that enable UGC. So that's sort of I guess the expression of how players become viewers and some viewers end up becoming developers. So that's you know, in terms of what I feel it will continue to evolve to as tools to make these games become democratized. I think Google's released a recent paper called Genie. That's a really interesting paper about how these foundational world models are creating deeply interactive worlds. So I guess you know, over the next five years, how games get designed and develop loads of fundamentals be changed. Kirvi would like to know, from your view, do you think games have evolved in the industry of entertainment now? Games have always been for entertainment and obviously how games are interesting is because it gives the ability of the gamer to engage with the game to the depth that he wants to. So you can just play a casual board game and you know, it can just restress you for 10 minutes and that's your dose of entertainment. Somebody can play COD or you know, another FPS game and immerse himself for an hour, an hour and a half and that is entertainment for him. Somebody can take gaming to another level, be a esports player and represent his nation. So I think that way gaming does very well in the fact that you know, it allows somebody from five minutes entertainment to actually maybe two or three hours of seriousness you know, even lending itself to building a career. So that way I would say that gaming has evolved and it has given people the ability to do however they want to engage with it. Can't you? Yeah, I think it has always been fun like what you said and I think there are multiple factors which led to like crazy growth and that's how it became the most obvious choice for entertainment. Again, like we just heard that gaming revenue even crossed OTT's revenue in the last one year, right? That's in itself an example that people want to spend where they're really like enjoying and like there have been diverse content so everybody's kind of picking what they like. So that has led to that entertainment in its own sense and obviously these days the Gen Z's, millennials are not stepping out and playing cricket and football that much. To be honest what it was in my days like when I was a kid, they are hanging out more on like platforms where they can find peers to play together like Stan and you know, Discord and they want to just make friends on those different avenues. So it has become kind of an obvious choice for somebody that the conversations are around gaming and because I think it has been you know caused that there is a lot of gamification across apps, there's so much content around it and what Sameer mentioned around people even viewing gaming content like live streaming for that matter, right? It was never a big industry for India and now like you would find five people sitting in a room and watching game streams, right? Either on YouTube or Twitch, right? So all these different ways where people are consuming gaming content is something which has led to kind of making it the obvious choice of entertainment. Yes, my views on the entertainment aspect, if we go to look at it traditionally what has been a source of entertainment to the Indian audience has been television, radio and nowadays it's OTT apps and again further go divided among the number of people or let's talk about economics of the same. Around 80 million of them are paying users for different OTT apps in the country according to certain reports of few experts. Similarly around 92 again 110 million are the paying users for gaming. So economy wise, yes, I think it has kind of leading entertainment sector and when it comes to engaging in different aspect of it, I think people are adopting mostly to becoming creators because that is one thing. Gaming content has been streamed and they're making a lot of money out of it. I think recently one of the gamers got facilitated by RPM as well for being one of the top gaming creator and creators economy is a huge media chunk right now even on YouTube. After music gaming is the most watched entertainment segment in YouTube as well. So I can very clearly say that it has involved a long wave just from last year to this year and it will further go ahead in coming years. I was coming to that, we were seeing a lot of rise in gaming influence in creator economy. So Sameer, what's your take on the rise in gaming influences these days? Like my friend suggested, it is the second largest category on platforms like YouTube after music. It tends to be a great way to use the internet and social. So the ability to build conversations inside of these 3D worlds leads to a lot of easy way to make content on video. You are also seeing the other happen where influences are now using the large communities that are built on platforms like Twitch and YouTube to launch games to news and reduce their user acquisition costs. It will appear to be the dominant form of creating content not just in terms of you know you've got folks who actually start their careers understanding when you're building games, when you're building videos for example inside of games like Roadblocks or Fortnite it allows you to get accustomed to the tools in order to create these videos. By that I don't mean the video games, that I mean the machinima related tools that we use such as these game engines whether it's Roadblocks video or whether it's Unreal Engine. And that kind of lets you not just create videos but gives you the knowledge base to eventually end up making games themselves. So I think you know both of these are inherently going to be complementary communities. So the video community currently is already large but what you're seeing is after a while when people build these large audiences on YouTube they actually put down all the skill sets to understand what makes them good games especially on platforms like Roadblocks and Fortnite and others and end up finding ways to dabble in that by creating instead of videos of games and using the audience they made on videos to find out what the source was that they've created. Yeah I think the biggest reason to start Stan was this, like Stan is a fusion of creator economy and gaming because we started noticing a very interesting thing that across YouTube people like live watching started spiking when they started playing games like folks like Tanmayward, Samer and I, like people know them probably as comedians but long time mass audience came, Tanmayward was playing PUBG, Samer was playing chess so we started noticing that because I in my previous experiences were working very closely with these YouTubers but we started seeing that if we could create an avenue where these guys can make money they can monetize their fan base that would be game changer and in terms of YouTube it's predominantly ad revenues which we have seen and the good thing about creator is he actually is known for let's say you know two things majorly one he is good at playing the game like you go to watch his content because of the mechanics of the game like he really teaches you tips and tricks how to win the game or he is very funny playing the game which is like the folks like Karim Natty and all right so these two things have led to mass distribution as well so any new game today starts influencer marketing so a lot of dollars kind of shifted from performance marketing from the you know meta and everything to influencer led approach this is something which actually uplifted the RNG industry in India like I was running an RNG platform before stand and I could see like 70% of my marketing spends were going to influencers so we felt that there's a big need that we could create a platform where the influencers were probably into gaming for fun for mechanics of it they can build their community as well as monetize through the users as well like they could give exclusive content they could you know get people to pay to play with them right so the uniqueness of a creator, economy and gaming fusion is something which is going to you know keep on increasing from now and we'll see more dollars coming to influencer marketing for gaming industry so yeah I mean everybody has rightly pointed it out and when game earlier it was about okay one person is playing a game then it evolved into okay can I play a multiplayer game with somebody else I don't want to play against a bot then it evolved into can I play with friends not just anybody and now it's gone to an extent where people are like okay even if others are playing I'm going to watch it and that's what's happening with the creator economy the influencers if at all what YouTube has shown is that you know anybody can be a celebrity and it has actually democratized the entire celebrity status which earlier used to be with the movie and the music industry and I think the way gaming is going to penetrate in different aspects of our lives is going to be phenomenal like I'm not able to imagine that you know a youth not having a touch point with gaming I mean you go on YouTube there is gaming content you're talking to your friends you're talking about games you're on your mobile you have games so the touch points are just immense and I just I can sense it that it's only growing and will grow further but this site you know the gaming is evolving to be a mainstream entertainment it still has its challenges so I want to know from my panelist you know they can talk about it the challenges of the gaming industry Samir you have anything to say on that I mean I think the last challenge with India has always been the ability for organization currently the estimated 150 million people were paying out of base on what 450 million but we wanted to share in terms of who is lower I think the other challenges being that I think in the early days of sort of finding ways that people can look at mid-flow and hard-core titans or up-lay and triple-lay titans which are currently it's been the market's been kind of trained on playing casual and hyper-casual but it comes to a percentage of time spent and the kind of engagement and sort of fan-building and socializing that happens in games mature that audience continues to you know while it's growing and you know arguably BGMI and pre-fire are at that space but one assumes that it's around 100 million dollars a total addressable base right so there's still substantial amount of growth especially in advanced markets if you look at monetization then you come from games that are deeply immersive safe-home genres like road-link games like RPG or RDSS beyond the set PSS so I think that sort of palette is developing within the gaming ecosystem and it's been dominated by in terms of monetization by RMG so those are the two pieces I think are not really challenges it's just a matter of time as this market continues to evolve I think talent has always been a big problem and as I mentioned earlier at least it's picking up now but when it comes to gaming it's like in the cusp of technology art, science, data there's so much that goes into building a game I can get somebody to pay for a bottle of water but can I get somebody to pay for consuming a bottle of water virtually and that's the challenge in gaming people spend thousands of dollars on consuming content which is virtual which has no real life significance and yet they do that so to get to that point is where the entire art and craft of making games lie in and for that the best of the minds in the country, the youth people need to know that this is very very challenging and I think for a long while the concept about Indians are not going to spend a lot monetizing so the entire focus was on the consumer but the focus should be on the content, titles like PUBG, Clash of Plans now have shown that Indians are spending 100 million dollars and it's not that the GDP of the country increase so much that people thought of having more money to spend the money was always there in the wallet but it was a content problem and I still believe that you know a lot of great games, mid-core games which can be the PUBGs of India that need to come out in front globally people need to see a success from India that makes its mark not just in India but world over adding to that, that kind of compliments the fact that lot of dollars still now have been flowing outside India and the economy grows, the industry flourishes if the dollars are circulated inside like for example in the analogy of advertisement the money still flows outside but the money started flowing to the creator economy started foaming on, another example is real money gaming real money gaming is a beautiful product of India if you ask me outside there's no RMG, there's gambling, there's skill, there's gaming and so on so RMG gave an interesting avenue that the dollars kept on circulating inside the industry Indian market itself that uplifted the market implicitly, so what you know Keith is also trying to say is the more content comes out of India the more interesting titles, games or platforms where the money is still flowing inside the country that challenge is something which everybody is addressing now for the good, that is important because if the money keeps flowing out the studios outside keep making money and it's too difficult for us to and everybody comes and says that here you know there's not enough scope in the industry, but although the users are a bit paid, but another, there's a chicken in there because the talent is still not, it's very subpar here, like we still want to get the good artists from outside India to work on the games we are building, I think it has to be solved from the level that in colleges, academies, some vocational courses around it and I see some of the guys have started up on that and I also personally do some promotion on that, I think when I see some good content I give my creators to promote corporate, like whoever is associated with stand report like 5,000 people working with us, so some of the Indian titles which are really, really working hard to become the next PUBG, we really believe that that should come out very fast so when it comes to challenges of gaming in India, one basic that we see, the gaming has grown that is established over with the growth of gaming, the perspective and the policies attached to gaming is still not really significantly changed and the policies are not really stringent uniform enough across the states where in gaming developers as well as new publishers and eSports organizers see that there is ban in few states because of the policies and government rules and few other states is it is again the taxation there is not that uniformity or clarity among the industry as well as this so policy is something that I can say is one challenge that most of the ecosystem is facing from the developers to eSports organizers to the media folks as well and apart from that what I have observed in my experiences in the rural areas almost 56% of gamers are in the rural segment back now and they do not have high end devices to be able to create titles you might get the best of best talent, best of best content and everything else so what exactly can be the solution of course internet penetration was one I think which is getting solved right now for which they all started playing the games but their still lives is what they say and they don't have high end gadgets to play and they don't have consoles and PCs so they stick to mobile phones and so how do we really solve this problem and ensure they actually enjoy all the to play titles is something cloud gaming is that what we actually came up with and launched to ensure that one triplet title can be played across all the devices it could be a console, PC, mobile as well as web browsers so this kind of barriers and blockers are still existing which are getting resolved on my own as well I guess I want to tip sir I think it brings out opportunities like what she mentioned that cloud gaming came out to be trusty because you want to serve those who don't have good devices even in the policy space I think people find it out a way to build something called RNG and got those licenses and everything and then this elephant in the room which is like the 28% GHD hatred thing but yeah we need good backers, supporters in the government forum still believe that gaming is the big thing and it's going to contribute a large jump to the community if it works completely in the direction which all of us are chasing I think RNG and eSports should have a clear bifurcation there's a lot of mix in the way RNG is perceived versus what exactly eSports is eSports is purely based on passion and those athletes really practice a lot from mostly to 10 hours a day they are on their pieces playing so I think that clear bifurcation as well is very important for these gamers to reach the Olympics whether they really can be shown for our country to reach So with the challenges around and the opportunity you talked about how the future of gaming looks to all of you Samid, we start with you the future of gaming industry obviously right there is growing as the country is really deep for capital growth I just said with some of the statements which are made around in case they haven't been spending money you move one dominant game from the charts in India and the overall spending does drop and it's not like other games haven't been around here totally for a while to speak it's also a matter of getting these certain games like which say for example on the PC so it takes a lot for our game to reach the threshold and then there is an affinity to actually playing there over the years so if you can manage to crack into that because this is a huge business over the next couple of years I believe that Indian studios will come up with a lot more development most designers came out of the Indian shops that were set up by puzzle makers which include the likes of the electronic arts and others those books are now hence used the same play book that they were accustomed to which are building hyper casual and casual and rubbing mobile and taste in success I believe that that mid-go, hardcore segment is where you end up eventually having a lot more experience in building these titles which we can last for a decade and that kind of attempt is being made now by game developers the capital is there as well in order to support these kind of studios new parts of the ecosystem such as publishers are also emerging that reduce the risk including finding ways to fill the gaps of marketing and going to marketing so it's going to be a great time at the same point of time I also think that mobile development platform what we are seeing globally is that cross platforms tends to be the place where the new age of games dominates it's not just them being on mobile also needs to be there on PC and console because in spite of mobile being so large what you know the monetization of that of the scope of our pools much higher in some of those platforms so I think the still set should have to be developed will continue to move in the direction of more quality and not just remain in the hypercasual and casual space becoming harder and harder to get established as you know these platforms already so much on our and have been there for a few days. Thank you so much. I am very excited and I am sure everybody else is that's why a lot of startup founders have put things on the line just to benefit on the gaming industry in India and I expected to be among the top 10 industries going forward 10 years back India was just a download market the data reports from app and me and all the gaming platforms used to say oh it is number one in downloads and you know it has surpassed all other countries but it's far away in terms of generating revenue now we are the top 10 globally in generating revenue and I am quite sure the spot number one or number two is not that far and that keeps all of us very excited. The future of gaming I think has different perspective to it and to start with I think we all have already entered into the three end metaverse which has huge monetization opportunities as well and I think we came across this ad network on a web 3 where the game is developed on a common platform and the ad flows through the entire segment of that platform so metaverse is something which is a very big future for gaming and cloud gaming as I mentioned it is device agnostic so everybody can adapt to gaming very quickly and experience AAA titles as well and gamification is taking up a lot these days on the different segment especially for learning it could be it has started already in schools and colleges where they are adapting skin based games for learning mathematics logic and different competitive exams as well so there are multiple use cases which are adapted across the industry and not just in the gaming so I think AR, VR cloud gaming, metaverse, web 3 as well as your gamification is the future of gaming that we can see where gaming is applied to grow different products as well. Yeah I think I am bullish about the creator economy and will do it I think distribution is solved because of this specific vertical and distribution will lead to all the dark hoes and revenues and you know India becoming the biggest market in the world so like I can tell you the interesting fact that so we at stan we did something for the stan pan fest like 2 years before and we brought like 100 top gaming creators in one place 20,000 people turned up there to meet them and enjoy the experiences this year we have close to 3000 applications for creators to be part of stan pan fest so that in itself is an example that lot of creators want to create content from gaming and these could be streamers, game developers who basically want to showcase something which is attached to gaming and they are looking at places where they can build their industries so if at all this creator economy in gaming can be cracked well I think we can really see some big differences there and like Samir mentioned cross platform that is something which we all really enjoy I was at my cousin's place last weekend and I saw my nephew playing with another nephew of mine in tazia bar and he was on the p.s. and he was on the p.c. both of them playing the same game inside the same lobby so that is actually a problem so whatever device you have you can play the game and claim and yeah I think these are certain technological advancements and operational advancements which could really resolve the gaps which exist today like some questions from the audience if anybody has give mine to the person I actually wanted to ask can you talk about the mental mental growth of gaming on users and I have always enjoyed and your reflexes improved there is a lot of benefits around gaming I see today parents really want to make sure their children are aware of what is the latest I have noticed that somebody was talking about roblox in a wedding so education is happening through gaming so mental health is something which obviously comes at the forefront that we should not see it getting affected somebody is playing gaming it has always been a stigma but it has changed over a period of time obviously there are measures to control toxicity which sometimes happen but I think that is inevitable human thing if you are conversing if you are in a playground playing football also there were people who used to be toxic there were people who were very poor sportsmanship I think the same there has been replicated in the games so there is no difference there we have not come across a case where it is affecting the mental health it is actually helping people to do their IQ and EQ by playing games that is what our learnings are if we check some of the gaming games say Ninja or PewDiePie all of them have taken reign from gaming once in a lifetime because of internet issues and if you say like some current issues like we might say like azure speed is a gamer and we can see what the enemy does so that is something I think he is playing around with this content I met him in person when he was in India so he is kind of trying each and everything what works for him and this side part is this is what works for him you are just associating it to a gaming thing I believe these people look at producing content on live streams and platforms which touch the masses obviously we can associate Karim and Adi as gaming but he does other content as well on youtube so it is not something which is affecting too much of mental health but obviously like you mentioned PewDiePie these guys we see Jonathan Scow model these likes of these gamers in India as well who are represented in the outside and they are doing pretty good they are turning to content creators which is in these sports right and they are these are like really new gamers these are new and good games I have seen portal play so the significant study has told the great matter in the brain increases even in adults when they involve in gaming so if I look at the scientific way of it it does develop in a significant way the great matter really helps the efficiency of the you know using your brain or logic or rationale so in a way it does help the development of the brain and reflexes and different efficiency as well but anything done in extreme has an impact not just gaming but anything you binge watch overnight that also has an impact on your health and mental health so you cannot really significantly there is no evidence is to actually prove that it will affect the mental health I don't completely deny it but I don't completely accept it as well because anything for that matter done in extreme will result into some mental health issues so that is to sum up the whole debate so just one more question and then we will wrap it up I will make it interesting here so I think this is a good discussion especially on the Indian gaming spectrum I would like to understand your views on how the VR gaming will develop over the years now that we have seen a little bit of an option with small little companies like Ivy cricket VR cricket in the team and now that Applevision has launched in the US but not in India like how do you think the gaming industry is growing in India and would love to give your insights on that anyone in the background even with Geo we have something called Geo glass which is more or less like a VR experience and in that gaming is one of the most important so definitely the immersive experience and Metaverse is also again merged with the VR experience so I think there is a great growth for VR and when it comes to the monetization aspect of it has to be still explored a little further it is not as ignored as the existing gaming market in my opinion I have tried my hands on Metaverse 2 I play golf I learnt golf in the game so I have not got my hands on the Applevision code yet but I think it is still here to be solved with the shape and form of it and India is not ready for a very premium product today I met couple of founders in some events who are building cool stuff in ARDR but I think it is going to start with outside market for monetization like she is mentioning but people love I think to experience ARDR I mean we have been fans of ready clear one so we want to wear that and enter the Metaverse with my friends sitting in the US but I think it is something which is in working progress so there is a technology aspect to it and there is an adoption aspect for it adoption is where I think it has been bit of a challenge and it has been bit of a challenge for a while now and any time you are talking about introducing something new to a user he has to buy that set he has to use it he has to get familiarized and again he will not have the same level of social aspect to it that he would have in a mobile game when he is able to play with anybody else but I think adoption wise there is bit of a road ahead for us so we end the session here it was quite insightful thanks Samil and I can call the other panelist thank you so much