 Who's idea was it for you to go to America? Terry Lawless, I wanted to get some experience. I had 21 fights, but if I could go around America, it's Vegas, it's Chicago, I even had a fight in America, you know what I mean? But to see the feeling and the vibes was out there. America's a big place, but there's some weird nutters, but there's some good nutters out there as well. What was that like for you? Were you nervous going out to America alone? No, really. I thought it was quite exciting. Me, Mark, Katelyn and Tony had them from over there. Good experience. Did you know who Mike Tyson was before you went? No, I don't think Mike Tyson knew who he was. What were you thinking the first time you've seen him? Nothing much. He's not much bigger than you, but he's compact. You know what I mean? You're compact, but he's compact. Big neck and stop treating like he breaks the ice. Yeah, that's what it's to me, I mean, you know. Yeah, because I spoke to Joe, it's Joe's... Joe Egan. Joe Big Joe Egan. He says he went sparring with Mike Tyson as well, but when he used to go running, Tyson used to sprint, he used to say, yeah, you do that, you'll tie yourself out, but when it came to the sparring, he just used to knock people out for fun. Yeah, I mean, sometimes he's a very special, very unusual person. I don't think you find too many in the world like him, but good luck to him. I think he's trying to rebuild himself and make some more money, but it's not that easy, but I wish him well. Yeah, did you feel his power the first time you sped? Yeah, he felt his power, but he felt my power as well, because he was not being foolish or not trying to be flesh. He was brought in to be my sparring partner. We designed to go to Catskill Mountains, Gleason's, is the name of the gym, it's a Jewish health farm, but they love boxing and they had a ring built down there suddenly for anyone who wanted to come down there. Was there many people there with you? Yeah, there's Jewish sparring partners and a couple of friends that Jewish brought along. Yeah, Terri brought along, Terri Lawler, sorry. So you made your pro debut at 21? In Chicago, I think, yeah. No, no, no, my pro debut was at Royal Abbey all. How was that experience? It was very scary, actually, you know? Sometimes when you go into something, and you've got a television there and you've got 5,000 people in the room. Before, when I was at Amateur, there was about, the maximum was about 200 people in the room, but it was scary, but persevered through on one different vibe, taking off your shirt and you've got to find someone, you know what I mean, professionally, it's a different cup of tea, especially when you've got to put food on the table for the baby to come and the missus as well. Did you feel that added pressure that you were a father at a young age? That's the right cause, you know what I mean? You just go with the flow. I wasn't there to really, I was ducking and diving, going to different gyms, sparring, going to different shows and gaining my experience. And 1989 was that when you fought Tyson? Well, I don't even know what day, now that you know what day, if you say so, no, yeah. Because that fight, was that not called off? So many times beforehand? Boy, it was scary, man. Even thinking of it now, it's draining, the thing at many times, it was postponed, but if you're a boxer, you've got to go with the flow, you know what I mean? But yeah, his wife, Robbie, nothing at the time. Did he have a wife? She must have been very sexy in the bedroom, talking to him like a puppet, and she said, sit down and bark. He would sit down and bark at him under manners. And unfortunately, he didn't look at the wearer there because he must have been good sex. Blocks everything out. He tried having a wife, but I mean, I think she was good to him. Yeah, so that was 1989. You're supposed to get that fight in Wembley, but it happened in Vegas. Donald Trump and Don King got a briefcase full up with money and gave it to Mickey Duff. And this fight was postponed and moved to Vegas. I think about five, six times it was postponed. Did you want to fight Mike Dyson? So again? Did you want to fight him? Of course, when he was 15, I was 19. I knew more than what other people would know because I wanted to fight him. Do you think it could have made a difference if it was in your home top Wembley? Much different, much, much different. Same like when Donald King has his runners and judges and whatever gives him a brown envelope, sold something out for them the night before. Yeah. How were you treated in America? I was treated pretty well, you know what I mean? Not too bad in America. Yeah, you took thousands of fans came over to Donor in Vegas? For the first time, yeah. I loved it, I loved it, yeah. What was Don King like? He's not a bad guy. A lot of people can't take him, but he's the duck and divider, business man, very intelligent guy and someone not to be missed with. So when you go to Vegas, how long did you go to Vegas for before? About three weeks. Arizona first to get to get used to the heat or whatever. So Vegas was about 10 days before. And going into that fight, you're the first man to ever rock Tyson, is that correct? Well, I think so, if you say that, but yeah, I think, yeah. I don't know, rocked him, you know what I mean? Rocked, like obviously, ha ha ha. Obviously, he's getting the position, ha ha ha. Yeah. And what was that like going, world title fight then and then losing that? Was that hard? Was that a bit of a pull to swallow? Yeah, sometimes, yeah. But I'm determined to fulfill my dream and get what I wanted to do is win the WBC everywhere, sometimes it's better, but yeah. Bad day at the office. Because your friendship with Tyson became very strong over the years as you grew closer, is that correct? I think denying him from the Casco Mountains or whatever, getting him by himself, we can talk. He's very, very relaxed, but when he's got them, yes, people around him, it's very, very difficult to get through, but when he went to Miami, Paul went to Miami with me, he wasn't too bad. So when you, 93, when you fought Lennox Lewis, that was, you made history, that was the first British heavyweight fight ever? Is it? I don't know. Yeah, I think, so I don't know, I might have just got that wrong, but as far as I'm aware, it's true, yeah. Okay, you and Lennox Lewis was the British title. Ha ha ha. If it's not, we'll just end it there anyway. Twist it up, yeah. Yeah, really good, yeah. How is the fight between Lennox Lewis and Tyson? Who was a harder opponent? I think Tyson, you know what I mean? Very, very awkward, very difficult to catch, but I think Tyson was on the slide, then he was partying too hard, and I think Lennox Lewis got him at the right sort of time, but if you go back in time, watch DVDs of Mike Tyson when he was in his prime, you know what I mean? The people he knocked out, and he's so young, you've got to tell them the situation, because not too many... I don't think there's going to be another every way who will come and deserve our show and be as dangerous as that man, and I've got to give him respect, you know what I mean, because he's a dangerous hombre. Once you won the World Title, the agreement clause was to fight Mike Tyson after that? Yes, Frank Warren let me sign that, and Frank Warren didn't let me have him in Bramon who came to represent me to find out a good contract, but I can't really talk of a spot meal because as Frank Warren was watching, he was saying I'm a grateful son, so I'm not grateful, I thank him for the bone in my heart, for raising and making a fight with Oliver McCall, but I don't know how a man could be in prison, and then he comes straight on to be number one contender for my belt yesterday, so good to have gone. Does that play in your mind, that? You don't play in my mind, but these promoters, they're very, very tricky, and I can see why some people get lawyers for their backside, because sometimes if they, they're trying to chill in your toes, they're trying to treat you, and they're making a lot of money for most, I didn't realise how much money they made, but that was yesterday, man, I'm just going for it today. Yeah, so if I fight Mike Tyson again, he's just out of prison, did you ever feel as if you had, you would have the edge then, if he was away for a few years? What, in prison? Yeah. No, man, they'd be chasing his arse all over the place. I bet he could have been down in the shower, or something like that, you know? Yeah, I'll tell you the truth, man. A lot of friends are now in prison, but I don't know. Yeah, I've been in prison to visit friends or whatever, but I don't know what it's like when they shut the door, you know what I mean? I don't know. I've got lots of friends, but I leave it as that, man, go on to the next question. So that was your last fight, Frank. Was that your last fight against Mike Tyson? Yeah, it was my last fight, yeah. How was that then, like, amazing career? It was sad in a way, but it's not the way I wanted it, but this way, the cookie crumbles, when I fought Mike Tyson for the second time, I got a detached retina from Oliver McCall in the first fight, in the first round, but I rang it and tried to go through, but it was very risky doing what I'd done. Your interview with Mike Tyson, how did that come about when your new documentary last year? They wanted us to go over to Miami to do help with the Tyson documentary, but what, we had to put things up your nose and squared it round and take this Ted and Mike outside, waiting to go and deliver it. It's crazy, but it came out all right in the end. How was that coming face-to-face with Mike again? It was all right, no hassle. Sometimes with Mike, when he's got the entourage around him, that's when trouble leaks, all the runners, you know what I mean, he shouldn't be getting involved with, but getting by himself, he was very constructive, he laughed and he went along with the flow that everything shouldn't go on. Did he have a good conversation off-camera? No, no, no, I don't think, you're never off-camera, are you? You're never off-camera, but yeah, but yeah, he was all right. You know, he's a mountain weed now, isn't he? He's a gunger planner. Yeah, he's got the weed farmers are smoking when you were there? I didn't see it, I don't know, he's a mulled. Yeah, he does his podcast and he's eating fucking mushrooms and... Oh, yeah, like, da, da, da. He's out, he's not. Listen, even the smoking to encourage kids to go, you should leave there, if you want to do that indoors, you can do that, but he gets nearer than Mike, you know, I mean, with kids and not nearer than Mike with kids, but even known for women, you know what I mean? And you can't, you can be who you want to, but you can't pick out who you want, because that's someone's child, but he's trying to explain things to him. He was thinking that he could walk on water and the people around him were getting him this, getting him that, and he was out of his box all the time, you know? Yeah, do you see that then? Because the boxers in the 90s is what I remember it from yourself, Gansett, Mike, Tyson, and Vegas, like the money, Tyson was on, like, 40, 50 million a fight back then, that some fighters don't even get that now, but because when you were agreeing to terms, like, you were only getting one-third of the pus, what was that collect? I don't know one-third at all. I know that, you know, I mean, it's supposed to be Mike Tyson at the time, he must have got 40 million, allegedly, and I was a champion, so I should have got that by B, none of them are cool, but I don't particularly can get into it, because it might wind up Frank or whatever, but if you think that a heavyweight is a champion, he should get them more money. Yes or no? Yeah. Oh, that's my case, your Honor. Just bad management, ain't it, some points, Honor? It was a little bit, but Frank will allow Henry Brammer to come upstairs to draw out a contract with me and the ex-wife, Miss Bin Laden at the time, but yeah, just strange one, just strange show, just had to sign the contract and not have another lawyer or someone look over it and willing to do things, even the money was not as good, but the money's only money.