 Open it up Justin, open it up. Yeah Can we keep that in there Doug, please if you want to pump your body and expand your mind There's only one place to go Might pop might pop with your hosts Salda Stefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews I had a really good time because after Matt dropped off or you got dropped off here we hung out afterwards and ended up chopping up forever and I love when we meet people like cuz we I've met we've met a ton of people yeah Interviewing us with that and I like pretty much all of them like all of them I like and then there there's like levels of how much I really like some of the best like somebody you could hang out Right beyond this If he was somebody who was up the road from us, you know, I'm saying if we really get on a plane to go see him all Time we were sure we would hang out. He's a cool guy a really smart guy He's like a bigger stronger version of Justin. Yeah, I know I know it's I felt the same thing I was a little bit like man. I wish I could do a cool shit You can do this. Oh, yeah, we're like the same guy. No, he's hilarious. It's very sharp-witted He's a competitive. He was an ex-competitor, right? He's to compete in the two-time world champion Highland games Which is a it's a strength sport. I love to even hear him talk about that because the way he makes fun of himself Oh, yeah, he's like, that's not even a real sport. Yeah, he's come on, dude He's fucking really very humble very humble guy very humble guy very cool guy very down-to-earth guy For sure will be a friend of ours for quite and his clothing line, right? What's his clothing line called? It's a big but with with the Roman numerals. Yes, H and then V II and it's a very successful I mean he started himself. I love hearing stories like this, right? He was a obviously in a strength sport wanted to turn that into a business somehow Came up with his clothing line, which is doing very well I mean, it's legit stuff like me and Adam both. Oh, no, like, oh, when's the black Friday sale? We're like going for it man. Cuz it like it's stuff. I'd actually I dropped over 300 bucks on his gear. Oh, yeah Wait, you'll see. I should get it this week. He sent me a bunch of free stuff His uh, you can find his apparel be that guy that kind of friend the hate dot-com But it's hate Roman Roman no Roman numerals. That was weird. It's the Hvi.com He's the three I sorry Hvi I I equal calm. Yeah, you can find him on Instagram at I Hvi I Matt Vincent and he has a podcast. He's actually got a new podcast. He's a good podcast. We were on his too Yeah, we were on his podcast his podcast is called um, so so um and then so you get how it you get how that works, right? Well, I hate Matt Vincent. Okay. I just wanted to tell the audience Oh, I just had to spell it out. Yeah, okay I was like you get that Roman numerals. I literally got I literally got it right the second Before oh you did as you read it. You got it. No, Justin's like hate Roman. Oh Roman numerals. Yes, excellent So here we are talking to Matt Vincent. It's the last night. I recorded with Jen Widerstrom and Jeff Nichols my Navy Seal buddy and Recorded at Jen's house and like what do we want to talk about blah blah blah blah? So we ended up setting it up on the table in front of us and we watched commando and critiqued it That's one of those movies when your kid is awesome when anyone you're adult and you watch it later like whoa, it's terrible I'm yelling about like continuity issues in the film I'm like, why would that be a thing that that guy has and she's yelling about how great Arnold's like what shape he's in Like won't let us badmouth Arnold at all and I'm yelling about you look at that stunt double Look anything remember the member the ending Got the guy hanging over the cliff. No, it was that line. Oh, yeah, that was a great You're a funny guy. I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last Remember when he throws the guy that the guy through the pipe or whatever he throws it through a straight through and let off some steam Merrick's wearing that like Macramay vest the entire time. I don't know if it's if I'm supposed to believe that's like some weird chain mail But that guy's in terrible shape Arnold you're not gonna fight You know what movie he did a knife I actually had this conversation with my friend the other day because we were huge when I was a kid me my cousin and Our buddy Wes were huge Arnold fans like all action heroes But the one movie that has stood the test of time as predator The original predator is still a badass movie when you watch it. No original predator Yeah, the other side commando like, you know red heat not stuff like oh my god That was a stretch. Well how many years later though predator came quite a way It was quite a bit later than those Prezors not that much later really no not that much. It was after commando. Yes. Oh, yeah Yeah, it was after commando, but it wasn't that much after commando because it was Conan commando. We should find out I know that the order was it Conan. I know Conan's first Breakthrough right? Hercules in New York. Hercules in New York. He's actually like I bet you guys title is like Arnold strong Arnold strong because they couldn't fucking bother spelling his name at that point You know, he used to have to used to have to argue with people because they wouldn't they don't want to put his last name It's like that's not gonna work. Your last name is too crazy. Yeah, Smith He's one of probably a hundred people who tried to make that play and we never know any of the others Just do it like Arnold outside the bilker Predator was in 1987 1987 was predator. Yeah, so what 85 is commando commando was 85. Yeah, I was sweet Carl Weathers. Yep. Yep. Yep. God so many great lines. I'm gonna say the way they split his name up there. That's Shwasi Yeah, memory kicks the door doesn't work throws the knife through the guy and he's like stick around But no it's after Terminator Yes, Terminator because he says I'll be Yeah, yeah Terminator 1984. Which is Yeah kicks the door down knock knock when he blasts everybody what a weird existence like Arnold Schwarzenegger has to have had right like I mean, you're essentially The most famous person in any room you've walked in since like what? 80 yeah, yeah, he's He is the if I'll argue this all day long and I will win this argument with anybody He represents. He's very confident Arnold represents the American dream better than anybody I can think of better than anybody and he's not even American. He's in that's why yeah, that's why he Immigrant who comes to this country doesn't speak English doesn't speak English at all He says I'm gonna become the best bodybuilder in the world what she does and he says I'm gonna become Rich which he does before he becomes an actor people realize this he made a lot of money in construction A business and as a bodybuilder and selling, you know protein powders a lot of stuff Then he says I'm gonna become the highest paid Here a movie star action hero no just movie star Oh, yeah, and everybody laughed they're like you can't speak English You're a bodybuilder terrible actor everybody made fun of bodybuilders back then terrible actor like no way Does it becomes the highest paid one of the highest paid actors of all time then he marries a Kennedy? Yeah, okay, and then he's like I'm gonna become the governor of the most populous state in the country as a Republican He's essentially running the third larges like the third largest economy on the planet As a Republican he became the governor of California like Democrat land Voting is a popularity content put someone in all right So I believe that within 12 years the rock will be the way on the way, right? Don't you think the only problem I have with that right is I feel like Dwayne's pretty smart and He's gonna see that it's a horrible job. I want that job. Yeah, you know what I think it is. So like yeah You've been to billion dollars to earn a job that pays 400 grand right Oh, you go it's the power. It's the power right because at that point you've accomplished almost everything else It's a terrible job. Just admit that that guy doesn't do much This is like a mascot Totally Yeah, we are I mean, how can you stop that if if we if we allow me if you can go in and vote right and now Everyone's everybody is on Facebook now Almost everybody is on these social media platforms and that you can be and Donald Trump was an example of somebody who you utilize that Yep, you know hate him or love him He did that fucking very well and he's paving the way for probably who's gonna do it the net next way right and it's just I think there's gonna keep one up in each other until you know, it's gonna be a popularity contest and you're right It's it's there are a mascot anyways, they're not making the decisions, right? It's everybody. I hope it's American idol That's true. Like I hope that guy's not make a decision We'll see what happens. So I I want you to share a story because I know I know I know yes No before we go to that one. I'm gonna make you go there first. I don't know if these guys know I remember The first time that I came across you was actually I found you I think Joe Rogan reposted your coffee Yeah, I had a coffee might be getting reposted Joe Rogan day show that share that story Taylor was briefly telling me a little bit too about it that you weren't even ready for that No, no not even close, right? So we've we've been in business at that point With hate brand a year The damn near a full year. So we put the coffee mug out and we're still doing stuff like limited release things like that So we think we make this mug. We ordered our standard quantity. We got I think 300 of them I'm like, well, this this is a whole deal Christmas, you know, this is like early like end of October and sure enough like it's yeah, November 2nd 2015 is Joe Rogan day and Like I got a get a text from her friends like holy shit do Joe Rogan just reposted your mug And I'm like, why don't I look it up and I'd taken a photo that morning with like two bags of caveman coffee and my mug and And sent it over to the guy a caveman that I know and he reposted and then Joe reposted man tagged us in it And so like we've got at this point like probably I don't know 150 mugs in stock No, what is the mug say on it? Just as kick today in the day. It's one that we Posted yeah, and so that's kind of being our being our thing right and So he posts this thing and like sales just And so it's like my partner calls me it's like well, we've only got like 140 of these left Like what do you want me to do because we're we've blasted through that in like the first 10 minutes since this thing's been posted Oh, wow, it's that powerful. Oh dude. I was like let it fucking run We will send fucking emails and we will apologize and say we did not expect Yeah, I'm sorry, but we have to like reorder them and I know that's gonna take like six weeks Give them IO use right and so we end up selling like over the course of the next four days like I don't know 1,100 mugs wow damn and it's that we've never never stopped carrying that mug We still sell about a thousand of them a quarter. It's been that's so how crazy is that the power of and that's a Post like not an organic post by Rogan. Yeah, that was just a repost that he didn't on his Instagram And he didn't even talk about it on his podcast. He didn't even talk about it on his podcast No, no, I'm not even close. Wow. Just to show you the power of one person. That's like Oprah was like that Like if you Oprah could make her break your life. Yeah, if you got on her show and she talked about your book You're a best-seller. Yeah guaranteed. Yep. That's crazy. That's insane. Yeah. Wow. So tell us about Your what you compete in what that's all about and you do Highland Games competition Yeah, so a lot of our listeners have no idea it's a strength sport, but they have no idea what it Like I think it's I consider it one of the most, I mean, you know manly It's good fun, right? So, you know, my background was a thrower in college shop at discus and hammer at LSU and then just spent some years doing some powerlifting did some a strong man was really average at both of them and made my way and found a Highland game to do and Really really enjoyed it took well to it if you threw for ten years prior to getting to the Highland games It's essentially cheating It all makes sense really but instead of you know doing three events. We now have nine So we do two stone throws that are really similar to the shot put we do two hammer throws We do two weights for distance and we do a weight over a bar a caber and the sheaf which is like a 20 pound Hey bail thing you throw with a pitchfork. Hmm. So got into that really really enjoyed it That was 2008 did my first game or 2009 did my first game in November 2010 did a full season essentially traveling around and then Went professional at the end of 2011. How do you become professional at it? Um, it's a little bit of just throw your hands in the air and say I'm now professional But the path that it worked out for me, which isn't I don't even think it's in existence anymore to do it there was something of a federation at the time and And They hosted an amateur world championship I went and did that and won that was right at the end of 2011 and so what I'd understood was if I win that I Get an automatic invite to the 2012 professional world championship. I'm like sweet I'll stay amateur another year do this game get the automatic invite so do that and Like talking to him like where you guys gonna host worlds next year, you know blah blah blah blah He's like, oh, it's gonna be loon mountain in New Hampshire. I'm like, well, that's where you guys are doing it this year He's like, yeah, it's in a couple weeks Which which worlds am I invited to and they're like, yeah, the one in a couple weeks. I'm like, oh All right It's on so went and you know man perfect spot to be in I'm as in good a shape to throw at that time as I could be I'm complete rookie first professional competition is at the world championships So just went out hair on fire and let him fucking have it took second One then won the following year. Oh bad ass. How's the vibe towards Americans? Oh, it's fun. Yeah. It's fun I mean, I've heard that the culture is Around the Highland games is similar to strong man and that everybody's a super fucking having a great time Everybody's cool and the professional ranks 100% 100% we're for me I always thought that the professional side of things everybody was in on the joke a little bit of like this is fucking kind of silly Let's be honest about this There's people paying us and flying us out and putting us up in hotels and we have prize money for fucking throwing rocks in a Field today that we're gonna measure You know, all the professionals were also did other sports my brother does it He was an NFL guy and most of the other guys threw in college. So we're all used to doing other things the amateurs get They get a little bit to the point where it's like they're looking for something to define them and That's where I ran into it was strong until I'm like, come on man fucking take it easy, bud We're in fucking GNC parking lot We're forced here to listen to disturbed and carry stuff around at GNC Park Let's pump the brakes on how down with the sickness we are Now you've been around it for a long time So have you seen the sport evolve for potentially the good and the bad? Yeah, of course and the coolest thing is like I think now More athletes are finding it as like another opportunity to stay in competition and stay doing things And so now there's more information too about like where do you find games? And how do you get into the sport and what are the events and well shit? How would I actually train for that? And so that's been cool to share all that type of stuff, right? Yeah, I actually looked into that and there was like It was like clubs in the local area right have it and they would host it and all that and I was curious Like how do you even like get in you have to get into the club kind of circuit or yeah, and like there's not really It's not like a club or anything like that and there's no federations. There's no any of that with Highland games We're essentially paid entertainment at some festival got it and so which I see okay because so some renaissance festival Or somebody else drinking and doing shit awesome. Yeah, so we have crowds. Yeah, which is also the same reason they can pay us to compete and so My recommendation to anyone is like look up renaissance festival Highland games in your area Find one and just go do it and go have a good just go be fucking terrible at it Yeah, like you only you're only allowed to be a kook for so long in your sport And like you're gonna be the first time you do it whether or not you spent the last six months really giving a shit So just go be a kook right have a good time and then figure out is this something I'd like to invest the rest of my time in before you buy all the stuff For you know there's a long history behind Yeah, yeah, you know any of course yeah, so you know it's been around in Scotland forever and so essentially when the English had started Taking over Scotland and doing stuff like that. They took all their weapons And so these were ways that the clans could meet together and have some type of a physical challenge or a way to train For battle with it not seeming like Smashing swords So you throw rocks and they had you know counterweights from the scale So we threw a we throw a 28 pound weight for distance when we throw a 56 pound for distance and so we throw a 56 pound over a bar, which is For stone or something like that whatever the translation is and these were you know weights that they used to measure grain and stuff like that and you know the weights have Become more of a throwing implement now than what they started as and so a lot of the games You know that I've done in Scotland have been around a really long time like oh, this is a 700th running of Wow, this game and it's really cool because it's also like 700 years. Yeah, holy shit Yeah, and so it's deep and then you have some of those that have done a really good job of Like maintaining things and so you've got Like field records and stuff like that. We're set with that stone. Well, so it's the same stone. Yeah Holy cow some of the other implements wear out and stuff like that, but occasionally you get a good one Are the fuck yeah, have you encountered some of these because it's there's nothing like competing in something that's got such a long lineage and Comparing yourself to how people were hundreds of years ago in terms of performance I think a lot of times we Incorrectly assume that because today we're modern that oh, we're just better at everything than people were a few hundred years ago And in some cases that's not the case. I mean I remember Really learning about the democratization of sports and learning how much equipment Played a role in breaking new records like Cycle, you know cyclists or the or the track or the shoe or the you know The new technique of jumping or whatever and how much that plays a role versus just the physical performance and just how people back Then we're fucking bad asses, too Do have you seen records of some of these competitions where you're like this record has been up here for 130 years There's nothing that long there's some records like older records a tied a Tied one of the stone records for the world record is like 63 three or something like that and Owner of that record is Brian Oldfield. It was like a four-time Olympian world record holder in the shop But oh, so you've got a couple records like that and Jeff cast with another Olympian And these are all guys from kind of the 80s that post track and field had got into something else So they're like peak. Yeah. Yeah, these are legit athletes And so the records have been around long enough that most of the owners now are Pretty much somebody but yeah, but I mean, there's such a difference now I mean most so the average thrower in the professional ranks of the Highland games now is Think someone did the top 20 of us and there was you know, the average is six three three ten Just big dudes big boys, you know, I mean those people didn't exist 600 years ago Yeah, we just didn't have enough food or if they did they might not have come Competed. Yeah, or they were worried about things like say their village being set on fire They were my self with every day pillaging What is a pillage how much of your training is devoted to skill versus just most especially early on You know kind of the rule of thumb I always told people like don't fucking waste all your time like trying to build this 600-pound squat if If your technique in the sport that you give a shit is so bad That you can only transfer 30% of the energy into the implement, right? You'd be better off having a 300 pound squat and transferring a hundred percent of your energy You know, that's less wear and tear and it's a hell of a lot easier to improve technique in your first two years that like a specialty sport Then it is to add 200 pounds to your squat. Now. That's a very intelligent theory right there How do you apply that in your training like give an example of like how you would do that? So when in doubt go throw more, you know, so it's it's reps It's always going to take reps and I mean, what did I do to get better at the sport? I mean As having a throwing background I managed that, you know I didn't have a coach or anything but I could video and I could critique myself and see where I'm screwing stuff up And I'd thrown long enough that I had enough feel for the sport. So what I did was I would take 60 throws per event a week for the entire year and so it was throw first I'm plenty strong Until I can make this work. Why are we focusing on getting stronger? Everyone goes it's easy to get stronger and that's that's where people default and go there but that's a much more general and a lot of people understand that like there's General foundational kind of adaptations and then they become more and more specific Based on, you know, whatever company sport you're doing. So you can build for example general Endurance, but that doesn't mean you're gonna swim longer than somebody who's got excellent technique in the water And knows how to use that endurance, you know in a swim and the same thing is true with strength You can have some incredible. I mean, it's funny because many times, you know, I was a grappler for quite a while and I was usually stronger than the other person just because I had a background on lifting weights and for my body weight I'm pretty strong for my weight obviously bigger guys than me are stronger than me But if you know, if I'm going against a hundred and ninety pound guy in Jiu-Jitsu typically if we go to the gym, I'm an out deadlift squat bench, whatever but there's guys I would grab and Just pure strength and grappling they would they I would feel like I'd be manhandled Then I'd go take into the gym and I did this many times I take these guys at the gym and we'd lift and they couldn't squat to 25 They couldn't they couldn't pull 300 pounds off the floor. They couldn't bench press over 200 pounds And I remember initially I'd be shocked that these people weren't that strong And then I realized like it's just it's just different to different skill. It's different They can apply their strength differently than I can whereas I can squat and deadlift more whatever But then when we grapple it was a completely different different story, right? You know, and that applies with the throwing thing and the way I tried to explain it to people is like people get Overwhelmed and it's like, oh, you know, I get stronger this thing's heavy and the truth is Like none of the shit we throw is heavy. I mean, let's be honest We all lift and so like that's 56 pounds not fucking heavy There's not a move in the gym that I could be like, hey, could you do this with a 60 pound dome? But we're like, yeah, yeah, I should not a big deal Right. However How do I apply a 400 pound clean to something that only weighs 60 pounds and that's leverage That's technique that's trying to figure out. You know biomechanically How do I get my hips in front so that I'm using my legs to throw something that weighs 60 pounds? Not my arm and shoulder and that's technique and that's gonna come from the repetition and What I recommend doing to build that repetition is Keep working how what's the furthest you can throw with the least amount of effort is Where you want to be? Oh interesting. And so most of my training practices working on technique were You know start off really slow and throw out the you know 20 or 40 throws were Let me throw just further than the last row like what's what's the least amount of effort I have to put in to throw just further than the last one Mm-hmm. And so you know pick up six inches six inches four inches, you know foot and at some point you'll hit one That's relatively effortless and it's a bomb and then when you take your next one, you're like shit I've got to get my shit together. That's what looks at one Wow, so you can really feel the difference of your technique like what can you know since it comes out of your hand 100% of the really yeah, if it's a bomb, you know it. Oh, that slows down a little bit You just feel things line up and you finish dead on balance like both feet planted You know that all of the energy and momentum that you created was spinning went into that Oh, that's cool. You know, it's essentially like slamming a door, right? You know when you really slam it you don't move You transferred everything into it, right or it's like hitting a baseball or exactly, right? Right, you know when you hit that sweet spot. It seems effortless, right? No, but now if you blow out to the side or do anything I think that's wasted energy that went this way instead of That now did the 10,000 hour sort of rule apply here Like what do you think when do you think you started to kind of get in the groove of it? I'm sure I got into the groove of it Learning how to throw in college, right? Yeah, you know, so I already knew the point that Everything has to be led with my right hip, you know The further distance that I can create between my right hip and my right arm holding the implement the further It's gonna go. Hmm. So I already knew that But then things came together in the Highland games. I remember During the first full season I competed like things started clicking and I started hitting big throws and then started hitting big throws really consistently And then when they started getting consistent Like that's when things get fun Hmm, like that's the best thing in the world about throwing is when it when it just starts lining up and The techniques there and you've built enough hours into it that I mean, there's a lot of variables in the throw, right? You know, so I've got to think You know shift my weight over the left foot turn. I need to kick the right foot out I've got to switch the hip in front. I need to land keep the right foot turning land keep the shoulders behind You know push the right foot through block with the left shoulder initiate the shoulder push the hand out finish reverse Stay in yeah, you know for sound simple. Yeah Fucking a lot of steps. No, this is all one side driven. Do you ever go on the other side? You don't have time Yeah, you don't have time for you don't have time to be good. Yeah, just this is your sacrifice to try to be good at a sport Asymmetrical. Yeah. Yeah, there's no such thing as sports at a high-end that are healthy. Thank you. Yeah God, thank you. Yes, there's a big fucking difference between someone who wants to be a competitive athlete and someone who's a participant That's something that we try and talk about all the time is that like it's writing a bike healthy fuck Yeah, right is competing in the Tour de France. No Little different. Yeah, right. So so true man I want to get into your business mind a little bit man because you seem like a pretty savvy business, dude When you started doing the Highland games, did you do it with the intent to build a business? Are you just having fun? No, tell me how that all played out then. How do we get here? So I did my first season Competing and at the time I'm traveling a lot for work and Hanging out with some different people on the road and I would always kind of book meetings around where I had a competition Or there was a gym. I wanted to try to go see what kind of work are you doing right now this so at this point I'm doing outside sales and a oil and gas petrochemical field And so I'm chasing turnarounds doing stuff. Of course you did sales. You're very you communicate very well weird I'm very familiar that what I am professionally as a salesman. I know this is my skill and so At that time I'm traveling and I ended up meeting up and hanging out a lot with Jim Wendler And so as we're chatting in this time and this is this is probably 2009 How did you know him? Hmm. I had done a long trip up the East Coast for sales There's actually a really weird week. I've done like two weeks up the East Coast seeing people from essentially South Carolina all the way up to Pennsylvania and finished the trip. I'm like fuck you had no tomorrow 19 hours Back to Louisiana get a call from a customer and they're like, hey, we need someone to come out tomorrow more You know Monday morning. This was a Friday You know, we need someone here Monday morning at 9 o'clock to come look at these drawings and You know see what we need for this upcoming work Cool. You're in st. Louis. Mm-hmm. I'm in Philly. That is not on the way home So drive over the weekend and since I'm on the week It was up in Philadelphia where there's a gym iron sport Steve Pulsinella runs and he knows Dave Tate and the guys from elite So he connects me and he's like hey a buddy of mine is gonna come through do you mind if he trains? So I end up training it elite over the weekend and while I'm in there Wendler comes through and we hit it off So we hit it off over I don't know was a really awful day of running prowler At that time like everyone kind of dies during it and then he and I are just still Running and going so we end up shooting the shit going to dinner and hanging out and have just been friends since Oh, and at the time he's like anybody ever written a book for Highland games And I'm like nope. He's like are you gonna? I was like, I don't know And he's like you should otherwise. I'm going to All right, I was like, I don't even know how you'd go about doing these guys easy So we talking stuff like that and so he kind of mentored me through it And so wrote a book basically laying out my training for the games the training for the games at that point like essentially Everybody was just meatheads and so those guys doing different powerlifting stuff like this to get good at the games I'm like, why wouldn't you just train like a thrower? Yeah, the way we did in college. It's different. We compete 20 times a year You know, you don't do for Contest like the way you do in powerlifting so part of competing 20 times a year and trying to peak for three games of the season is Some of these you're not going to be your best at right because you train straight through them This is an organized practice for you to get used to competing And if you don't look at it that way, I'm not saying you're not going to throw well But you may have done 10 sets of 10 on squats, you know 48 hours before the competition Right. Wow. So you actually account for that. Oh, you have to yeah, like this contest doesn't matter. Yeah You're doing 20 of them Peek for 20, you know most seasons I did 22 23 games So I mean you just can't peak for 23 weeks from May until September now are there some that help your ranks more than others as far as the events are concerned No, no, not so far as the events are concerned The ranking always came from because we do the same nine events every week It's not like strongman, you know, it's never a change and so you could rank people the Catholic style scoring Throughout the country no matter where they threw and so that gave you your top 10 Is this common to compete so much in the in the Highland games? Yeah, okay Yeah, it's not nearly as physically abusive on the body as strongman or powerlifting or any of that, right? And so I mean for example the last year I competed was 2016 and was in Scotland for 16 days And I competed 11 times Wow It's brutal Wow, but I mean you get used to it And you know the biggest difference you learn as a thrower competing that much is like how to turn it on and how to turn it off You just can't stay up for for that You know the way the way you see guys just Geeked out like so you you decide you decided to write a book. Yes, I ended up writing a book wrote Throwing lab is a training lab is the first one I wrote and essentially broke down Here's what you should do for your entire season of lifting if you're this many in many weeks out from a competition that fucking matters Here's how you'd set up a peak. Here's how you would you know build a speed and power program Here's how you would do strength cycle. Here's how you would do your off season Mm-hmm, and so put that out and sold sold some copies and one of the things I wrote about in the book Was the hate the mentality kind of where the brand had come from and you know basically describing that like You know these athletes like your Jerry Rice your guys like these that you'd hear these stories about that like you know Despite the Jerry Rice is the best, you know wide receiver in the history of football That this guy is still out running hills. You know at 4 a.m. He's catching bricks He's still practicing routes and like that fucking guy hates himself more than I do You know you know be willing as an athlete to own that that like be willing to outwork your competition I mean I I can't be any taller I can't do any of those things so I can either dwell on that or say what can I do and what I can do is show Up on time I can I can outwork you and I can put in the effort put in the reps and You know so hate yourself more than the next guy, you know a little bit of self-loathing goes a long way And so I mean that's essentially where the you know the mentality came from and so talked about that and so wrote another But the brand is born at that yeah at that brand right so wrote another book throwing lab which broke down all the throws from a technical standpoint is A good book. It is terrible to fucking write it's essentially bullet points of what I just said about the stone But are you are you blowing people's minds at this point because you're saying that? There's not that many people It's silent games. I'm selling dozens of these much group of people. Yeah, yeah number one Highlands game But it is selling but it's a weird spot because nobody's done this right with the games And so they you know the old guards a little pissy like it was this guy coming in here Telling people I don't be the authority of everything. Yeah, right and so I put this book out Like here's how I'm training for the full season did it want a world championship. Oh Which is also really weird because success doesn't teach you very much Failure teaches you a shitload. Mm-hmm. And so like taking second place the year before I was like, all right What do we fucking change? Where was I weak? Where do I do this? I win the next year? I'm like, all right Well that worked. Yeah, no, it's like preservation so Ended up doing that and had those two books out and then at the end of 2014 You know fans and stuff like that were asking, you know, we put on a shirt put on a shirt Do that, you know, the hate shirt, you know, blah blah blah. I don't do that Like I don't have time to ship stuff like I have a job Yeah, that pays well and in a career and like I don't have time to go ship Go to the post office every day this week just to sell one shirt a day You know what I mean, right? A lot of people don't realize that like so I try to start three different clothing lines as a kid growing up where I'm at now And I remember when mine pump really started taking off that was you know, all the fans are like, oh make the shirts Make the shirts. I'm like, you guys don't understand like there's just there's not as much money as you just fucking snap my fingers Yeah, and you're not gonna get rich off of it You're really not like when you start that in like what would it cost to now pay somebody to handle all the Shipping and all it's like you're not make you're not getting becoming a millionaire unless you're already somebody who's Joe Rogan's type famous then you can right but then again It's still the smallest thing that's bringing income to his you know what I mean exactly no exactly the model today I think with apparel is you don't look at it as your moneymaker. You look at it as more advertising Yeah, I mean, yeah, and it's it's it's gone. Well So we we did that and essentially some like I don't want to do it because I know I don't have time And I'm not gonna be able to do it well. And you know, you can't tell people like well I ship every Thursday The fucking Amazon exists right can't tell people who ordered on a Saturday that like I will get it out sometime next week Yeah, and so Another guy had met through through Wendler who's helping Wendler with his apparel He's like hey, man I own a you know a print company and I've got a warehouse and I can do all your drop shipping I can do everything for you is that at Kansas City and I'm like What do you think and he's like look run a presale See who orders we fulfill it take whatever profit we have Buy more inventory Okay, there's no risk to that. Yeah, that's no problem. I have fucking any risk at all. So we did it sell 50 shirts over the the one week that I've got pre-sale up Rolled those into more shirts bought more shirts It's just been doing that since oh wow Ever since then it's just pink right now. Have you left the other job completely and that's all yeah So they they decided they fired me in March of this year And like I can sell that anyway. I want to I mean they didn't want to keep pursuing pursuing stuff in Louisiana where I was about four and a half hours from the main office and You know, they just weren't growing that way and didn't want to put an office by me and fill it with people for me to actually sell Whereas all my competition in the area has that so if I'm trying to compete like I've got a paper Deum to a group of guys who comes and does the work just not competitive and so They let me go and I didn't get fired because I was like stealing from them or anything But as far as I'm concerned, they decided one morning that they weren't interested and give me a paycheck for my job anymore That's getting fired. So They they let me go and I was like, well, yes, we'll make a run at this fucking apparel thing You know and the wife was cool and you know, I'm really really glad at that point I didn't walk inside and say I think I'd like to start an apparel company Yeah, that'd be a terrible idea Since it was already working right it's going great. So that's that's essentially what I do for a living now Is that and you know YouTube and podcast and I've got some sponsors and stuff like that What do you so what are you liking about that because this is a total career shift when you think about it? It's great. It's great because I essentially wake up every day and do whatever the fuck I want Right and so that whatever the fuck I want is get on a plane and go to Denver and talk to these people that Inspire me or meet some new people and find some new life experience and Do this type of stuff. What's gonna make me a better me and that's really what I'm chasing. That's cool What are the things that you're doing now that to make you a better year? What are things you're into? It's it's really trying to surround myself, right with you know, like-minded people, but not the same mind I'm not I'm not looking to be validated by the people I talked to or books. I read or anything like that I want something new. I want a new insight. I want new life experience. I want those type of things and really enjoying Getting feedback and helping other people realize that they can do the same, right? And travel has always been big for me and now that I don't have this other job. I kind of travel as I want to But it's it's meeting new interesting people like your Kyle Kingsbury who's got a complete different outlook on a lot of things than I've had and Just opened everything right like the way I feel about it is like show up be a novice Have you always been like that open-minded for growth or is that something that did something a pivotal time in your eye for you? Like I need to fucking change. I mean, I feel like I've always have been but for sure pivotal role I guess would be I'm 34 now be 35 in April and when I was 31 Or just turned 31. My father died my dad got pancreatic cancer and it passed away, right? and Was when he died he was 62 and so the only thing like we didn't have a weird relationship or any of that things are fucking great It's just super sad fucking dad died, right? And uh, how old is your dad when he died 62? Oh, he's young Yes, I was 31 at the time and I just couldn't help thinking and I kept having this fucking loud voice in my ear I was like you're fucking halfway. Oh, that's first thing just went through my head You said that you're fucking halfway and if that's true what the fuck are you doing and Like that was a that was a big fucking moment man and part of that was like gas pedal Mm-hmm, you know, let's go. Let's go because I couldn't meal my dad worked in a pet You know worked in the oil and gas industry as a welder a boulder maker Made a great living took care of myself my brother my mom and in all this shit and you know, it's good dad and They had just basically started like getting out and traveling and doing stuff for them in probably the last four or five years before he had passed and Because because you got time you're fucking young you're 60 Mm-hmm, you know, but he never took care of himself or anything like that And not that that's how you get pancreatic cancer, but he definitely didn't put any cards in his favor. Mm-hmm, and so Like I just couldn't you know He got sick on a trip with him mom and fucking came home went to the doctor and 11 months later. He's dead And so like my fuck I can get hit by a fucking bus tomorrow. Mm-hmm So let's go. Yeah, you know, and if I if I look at things like That that this time is fleeting right that the fucking clock is ticking and I've got today This is all I'm certain of I don't have tomorrow and you know, I don't have yesterday that shit is done good or bad that checks cashed and So so what can I do today? What can I do more of to not? Waste any of that time. Mm-hmm. You have kids. I know you're married No kids. No kids. No kids yet. We spent about a year and a half trying and unsuccessfully and so that gets weirdly stressful, too So essentially we've kind of pumped the brakes on that and like if the universe decides that we're gonna have kids We'll have kids with nothing I can do about it. Anyway Just hang out with me Yeah, I do hella cool shit, bro No, it's one of those laughing things we my wife and I've talked about, you know Our friends who were all you know our age with kids and shit like that. I'm like, oh cool You guys went to go watch a a Wiggles reunion Man, I went I thought it's so true my wife and I went to Italy for the weekend Our story just the same thing I get it. Oh, you're broke My girl and I said we've been together for seven years We're 36 and 37 say it all the time and we're not anti-having. Yeah, right Like you said the universe lets it happen. It happens type of deal But right now But we had those exact same because all you see everyone married and having kids now Oh, it's the best thing ever and I'm like really cuz I mean look I think honestly like if I would have had that you know The fucking the first job that I had in the petrochemical industry as a sales guy like if I'd have had that job And that was gonna be it for the next 30 years, right doing that grinding it out Oh, I'd have kids by now. Hmm that I have a lot less options Right and kids are an option that would have worked great for that life, right but Now I've kind of broken to a weird spot where the options are what I need to do to keep growing the thing That now pays our bills is is go and meet and do because people aren't coming to me Yeah, and I'll never expect that, you know, I want to go and experience people on their turf Yes, right not bring them into my fucking little weird world. And so That's that's what I'm into and so make a run at it and see what we can find that's such a great attitude You got a fantastic when we first started I remember people couldn't put it together where we we didn't know A lot of people don't know this so this was the first time I think I think we share this on the podcast that You know, we had to we had to front the money to flot we flew our guests in we how we did everything to get them to come Because when we were small and we're just getting started Fuck yeah, it was mine pump or okay, I'm gonna come on your show. And so we had to we had to actually I mean it was a major hustle and we would go any we still do that. We just got back from la We did a 10 shows in three days and and so one of that shit's cheap. Yeah. No not at all It's not it's not cheap. It's a lot of it's a lot of work and it's a grind But it's also super rewarding too. I think you right you have to know because what the mindset you have right now like Man the amount of growth that we've gone through in the last three years with meeting all these really really cool people Have you had anybody that? Just totally wowed you that you weren't that you weren't ready for and you were like Oh, I did not expect that that person to be like this. Um, probably kelly stirrett. Ah Uh so I'd started a youtube channel and I've filmed like a bunch of training and bullshit and regular things you do and you're like I can make videos using my flip cam and uh I posted a bunch of that and then I got with a buddy of mine. I was a dude. I got an idea for a project I'd really like to do and I like traveling I know some interesting people and I've definitely got connections to other interesting people through that network And so I wanted to film, you know, this uh, the drift to lift a series that I've got on my youtube channel And so we do it about once a year. So this is 2014 Something whatever and so I've decided like we're gonna go do this and so I talked to my buddy We're gonna fly to california. We're gonna interview kelly. We're gonna view mark bell and go talk to jesse burrick And I've known mark and so then I know jesse and I know kelly. So we go in and meet with kelly And man fucking grounds running, but I mean like all this was my bill You know, I paid for this because it was something I wanted to create right and uh Go and talk to him and and he and I and his wife hit it off I think we hit it off talking about mid-century modern furniture. So I Super random. Yeah, it wasn't over stretching And so since then I mean like mark kelly and jesse are are really really close friends And I would say more than anyone else like I really get along with kelly very well. We uh He's as close to kind of mentor role for a lot of stuff that I've ever had And um, he's he's great people. They're wildly positive. You know, he and his family and kids are amazing And we've got you know, they're they're family friends at this point And so I mean we stay with them for new years. Well, we were up there a couple weeks ago and uh in July or june my wife will no better We've got a 16 day rafting and camping trip in the grand canyon with kelly and julia And a bunch of other people and that should be that should be really really good. Have you done that before? I hear that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it's like no phone disconnect. Yeah. No, that's the big 16 You're shitting in a five five gallon bucket and stuff like that I've had family and friends have done that should be cool said it's awesome So, you know to kind of get ready for that, you know, the wife and I were talking about things I was like, let's fucking drive out. Let's drive out to arizona to do it She's like, yeah, and I'm like look man After 16 days of of like disconnect and and this environment of this close-knit group and kind of this tribal thing that you get from that And in getting to actually know these people I just don't know that I can stomach going to the airport. Hmm Fucking hate the airport. Oh, so I like going places But if we could if we can't the japanese could stop building machines We could have sex with and come up with teleportation. Hey, hey, we're making progress there, buddy That's what I'm saying. If we could knock this out in like the next half hour Fucking great But they're getting hotter every day. I know They are really good It's worth every penny Yeah And so I just don't want to go to the airport and be super fucking bummed out like after that trip Like I don't need to be that by integration back into society. That's funny. Yeah, we can't stay on the airport No, it's the worst That's actually that's actually a really unique strategy that I don't even know if I would think about when you put it out There like that that makes a lot of sense. You just have this incredible You know being disconnected from tech and others and you're in nature and you're with a tight group Like you're saying to get right back on a plane and otherwise And yeah hurting cattle at that point versus riding home with your wife or you can probably download all the stuff that you guys Exactly right and I've got you know, we got a rooftop tent on the truck So we'll drive through a couple national parks and camp and hang out. That's awesome, you know and Like that's that's what I want to do I mean look, I've it's really interesting because of the change of things and and after 20 years of You know competing and lifting and doing stuff like that Now that I'm essentially not throwing anymore because of my knee like I'm still interested in lifting that that's not going anywhere. That's just ingrained now in the dna and something I've got to do sometimes during the week But I want to be out of the fucking gym Yeah, like how do I get outside probably the most underrated side of competing in the highly games is you just throw outside all day That's it's so different. Yeah, I remember the first time I did that me and my uh, when I owned a personal training studio Me and my partner Had kettle bells and it's like hey, let's take these apart just chuck them and I it was the most fun I'd ever had with weights. Yeah, it's it's fucking great, man And so I want to be outside more I'd like to you know do more mountain biking do some hiking and you know some Stuff that i'm fucking bad at like, you know weird long hikes or like a multiple day hike and shit like that I don't want to be out of my comfort zone. Yeah. Yeah. Did you did you grow up small town? Or are you yeah? Yeah? Yes, you did it's Louisiana's there's not like if there's a lot of options for metropolis The whole state has like four million people in it and now you're doing Denver's and New York's and austin's and san jose's I mean, what what's your take doesn't make you like where you're at where you live even more Or does it make you want to move to somewhere else? It's always a double-edged sword and so the way I've looked at it and I've talked to different people Is like I mean if I could pick a place To live I really really do like norcal. I really like where kelly and them are at However, my budget's not fixing to buy myself into sam rafael. Oh my god, you know, it's getting worse I don't have two million to drop on a house from the sixties that needs to be gutted So not crazy right and so You know I started looking at stuff like that because you know after I'd lost the other job There's nothing really keeping me there. I mean as long as I have my phone attention Yeah, I can work and so you know we talked about it a little bit and then we built the house a couple years ago and Realized that like we built the exact house we wanted Uh with you know our nice backyard and set up and we're in a neighborhood that only has 30 houses in it It's not getting any bigger. I'm an hour from an international airport And my house was like 280 grand. Yeah, I can live like a fucking king in louisiana on a shitload less money All right. Yeah, and it's home. I like louisiana. I've never had to shovel hot Like there's no clearing my driveway in the winter I could fucking be outside all year And so whether I lived here or I live in louisiana or I was in denver or I was in fucking iceland Most of my time is going to be spent in this like four mile radius around my house where I go to this grocery store I go to the gym. I go to my house See family Yeah, and so whether I'm at home or I'm here It's this four mile radius I live in and occasionally you go and do really cool stuff So I can live there and get on a plane to go do really cool stuff All right, right, right what I what I've noticed more recently I've never traveled as much as I've traveled since we started the podcast. We're probably on a plane Every month right almost every single month. Yeah, I average like 40 flights a year Okay, so here's a crazy thing that I noticed that I never realized before. Um, we started doing this was that you know The the country we live in america is so massive. Yeah, it's huge It's so big and every state is almost not quite but almost like another country in the sense that you can sense and feel Different culture In like the state culture hundred percent and even in california you go to you go to southern california different culture It's totally different in orca. Oh, yeah, you go to texas Austin is totally different from dallas and you go to colorado and that's different and you go to florida and that's different It's like and you can almost start to feel You know like floridians or different the californians that are different than texans that are and it's very interesting Have you noticed this 100% right and and that's really cool You know, and I've got to spend some time, you know in scotland and you know in the uk and then you know iceland and some other countries and Like states or countries over there. I mean like they're not far apart and that's why everyone learns multiple languages Whereas like we're fucking huge. Yeah, the us is gigantic Yeah, and and not only that like it still blows my mind that people live stacked on top of each other Because you fly east to west and you're like there's fucking no one here There's an awful lot of space You could actually fit the entire united states in Something smaller than texas and have lots of rooms. Oh, I think it's something like like Greater la area could hold all of the people physically. Oh, that's crazy Yeah, most of the most of the population is like on the coast and in a few states Otherwise, it's like we follow water. Yeah. Otherwise. It's super sparse. What are what because you're from Louisiana What are people from Louisiana like? What are some of the stereotypes or good and bad? um I mean, it's a state. I've always wanted to visit by the way. I plan on going to some time there. Yeah, I mean You've watched like swamp people or anything like this, right? Like tv show, you know, it exists, right? Sure that fucking exists I mean I grew up In southern, you know south western Louisiana small town about 30 000 people is like one high school um But I mean like we grew up, you know hunting and fishing and we also trapped alligators and did all that so I mean I've done Seasons with 150 plus alligator tags and oh shit throwing them in boats shooting them the whole nine so I know that that exists and I know the people fucking from those shows like I know that Down in the bio bar Those people exist and you know northern Louisiana is a lot fucking different too and then new orleans is it's complete on thing Yeah, um, you know new orleans is as close to we have as a city and it's a little rougher. It's also fucking sketchy New Orleans gets real sketchy really fast I think it's most I think it's currently the most dangerous city on earth, which is we're winning All right Well, I know I know stocked in california is like was rated number one on yahu like two years ago Is the worst city to live in? Yeah, we go for murder capital Who's got the murder and um, we're real good at it It's just too hot I would imagine though, that's like those are basic stereotypes Just like I'm sure people see like the Kardashians and they think fucking all of la in california probably look like that or act like that Yeah, what do you think of california every time you come? I love california. I like california a lot You guys got legal dope We do california is fucking great weather's nice. You mean it's it's fucking 70 here I get to wear a hoodie and not be disgusting most of my life It's fucking hot at home, man. Like during the summer can't drive here though No, if it starts to rain a little bit stupid people exist everywhere Stupid people can't drive anywhere at any time it rains That's common across earth um But man, you know at home like during the summer, you know, we're 105 degrees and 90 humidity So my garage that I train in by myself is like 92. Wow Wow, you don't need a sauna. No, no, it's pretty cool. Oh cool heat shock proteins. I'm just going the attic for fun So matt you you mentioned, uh, kelly start being kind kind of like a mentor to you now where you're at in your life What about like growing up like what what turned you into the man that you are today? Like did you have was your was did your father play a big role in that or did you have mentors like? You know, I think a big part of my brother, right? Um, we we always been really close and so andy's Four four years older than me or five years school wise. So we were never in high school together Which was probably great And he was a shitload better at sports than me and so Like seeing him excel and never get in trouble and not be a piece of shit Like that was like, why wouldn't I follow this path? This seems to be working out pretty god damn good And so, you know, I like doing sports and you know, I mean we I don't ever remember a point when I was asked if I wanted to play sports Is just we weren't going to sit around the house. So well, you've got soccer tomorrow. Like, oh, okay, soccer starts and um You know, I think that and I think with my parents. I think it was really solid expectations You know, they weren't crazy but I mean they were I also don't think they were relatively they weren't crazy strict because I did a lot of dumb shit But there were consequences, you know, there was a set line of consequences There was you know, there was good consequences and bad consequences. These are yours to choose on how the how you'd like to act And you know and then expectations with school and grades and there was never an expectation from sports side of thing That was just a thing we did Yeah, we just happened to have some decent genetics and enjoy doing it. So it worked out well Did start with throwing uh played football stuff like that growing up, right? Like, um you know football and track through high school did football and track in middle school and then Got recruited by some smaller schools For for college for football But I mean nobody was looking for six foot 270 pound linemen that weren't that fast You know at schools. I wanted to actually go to right and so I was a much better track athlete and so lsu had recruited me So I went there on a scholarship and competed for for four years Excellent. Yeah, it was fun. Tell us about your podcast. When did you start it and why did you start it? I am a sweet Seven episodes in yeah, you're new. Yeah, it's a brand new. It's called um, so I'm so yeah, so like that Just kind of talk about anything it was you know It was just kind of an expansion on getting to do this and you know with travel and talk to these people and you know, maybe have a little bit more in-depth conversation and It's it's stuff like you know being influenced by what rogan does which I love is that long format Conversation, you know and like I mean look man. If you've only got one gear I'm not that interested to talk to you Like if this is all we're gonna fucking talk about right like it's this this I get it. We all know how to lift Thank you. Yeah, what else right? Why do we do this? It's that's one of our favorite things when we meet a guest So we just like again, we just got back from la we saw this and we saw people like Drama from fantasy factory and uh, who else do we see that was like totally opposite of what we would normally Nothing to do with health and fitness, right? And I they're always they're always scared to talk to us at first because I think we're gonna just talk about barbells and dumbbells Well, sure, but I mean like I mean, but that's kind of that, you know I don't want to meet a bunch of people that You know, otherwise it's just sitting around smelling my own farts, right? Yeah, you know, which is fun But yeah, it's great. You know your own brand. Yeah And I want to meet people that don't have my background that don't do what I do that don't Have any of this. I want, you know, it's my opening life experience. I want some, you know insight into something and You know, I'm not gonna gain anything You know only talking to someone who mirrors me, right all the same people, right? You know and I mean while I love, you know guys like mark bell or verticlic We don't ever have to talk about lifting we fucking get it, right? You know, this is a conversation. We don't ever have to have right And so it's the other you know how important that is right now We talk about this on the podcast with where we're going with marketing And what what's happening is, you know, you're on facebook or you're searching on google and you know now google and facebook Figure you out and they start feeding you the same shit. What do you like? You like you like these Here's the same politics stuff. Oh, you like to loop, man Yeah, you and and then it gets and the the more you get that right the more confirmation bias you have There's the harder it is for you to break free of that And so I can't stress that enough to listen or especially the younger generation coming up the importance of Seeking out people that you you might not agree with or seeking out people that do nothing related to what you do Right making sure that you're always doing that and then even when you get good information is seeking out the opposing information too I I can't stress how important it is. It's becoming comfortable being uncomfortable. It's part of it Of course, but that's growth. That's right. You know, that's that's adaptation to the weights Right, you know, it's all the same lessons. I've learned in the gym And then you know the biggest lessons I've learned from the gym is the fact that I mean the entire time I competed I trained by myself in my garage and through by myself No one gives a shit Like no one fucking cares if I if I hit a pr today in the gym This is for me. All right And so that changes my outlook on training a lot with with ego Because I'm like, oh man, am I going to add five pounds to that bar and go chase a single in a garage by myself Or do I take five pounds off and hit a fucking triple? Which one of those is going to make me stronger and ain't the one You know do more work. Mm-hmm. Well, that's interesting because what you see now is everybody making sure they capture it and put it on instagram Right, great. You have to otherwise doesn't count. You're a great person to ask that question too What are some of the things in since we've avoided our field with our obvious field that we're all in What are some of the things that drive you crazy that you see going on right now? For the life of me. I just don't understand figure competition At all I just don't um dogged pony show I get the amount of work and discipline Bodybuilding or bikini or any of that take it is a fuckload of effort I have really problems with subjective sports That like I beat you because I fucking threw this further. Right. This is a really easy way for us to manage a clear line Right here. We don't have to debate anything. You're right. Yeah, you know, I also don't understand the sport that women allow that Butthole shot that they have to The cross leg yeah, they're like, yeah, it's so weird. Yeah. Yeah This is part of your sport. This this is how you judge a thing Yeah, like the guys don't have to fucking do that. I just want to see the judge like oh, yeah Isn't that isn't that which I believe that a bunch of perverted old guys came up with that when they were first Don't you know what let's make them do this. Yeah, it's just so fucking weird to me and it's I think it's really detrimental and and I think I think a lot of people get into that route men and female both go to the aesthetic route because You know, it doesn't take a lot of talent It takes discipline and anyone can fucking have discipline Right and so this is a great avenue for people to do that But I also see it breaks so many fucking people and it breaks more women than it does men because it it really What do you think that is what it fucking rewards people starving it rewards This side of things not a performance, right, you know, they're like, oh, fuck. I just have to be lighter than the next time in browner Like come on man Like I love you, man. I wish we could get away from that So I share this on the show all the time right when I uh, so I competed if you didn't know that already and I used it as a platform to do what we're doing right now Like and I remember I I met a few people who ended up being friends and I've remained friends With them because they were there's less than a handful so I can count on one hand how many people I've met and from amateur all the way to professional level that Saw it the same way I did like, okay. This is getting a ton a ton of attention It's a growing sport. These are all the covers of the magazines. These are the people everyone's looking up to Let's use that to get some attention and then catapult and then redirect the message Look and and backtracking on what I've said If competing in these things if you're doing it for you Fuck yeah If you're doing this because this is how you get better. This is how you push yourself. This is how you Manage discipline and stress and do all these other things. Fuck yeah But if you're doing it for some shitty three foot tall bowling trophy Come on I'll buy you one. Well, you know what I mean like what I was blown away by was the The amount of body image issues poor relationship with food and poor relationship with exercise that I found You would have thought that okay. These are some of the elite physiques that are out there Super disciplined to get there So if you're that disciplined, I would assume that you were dialed in And when I got backstage and started talking to all these other competitors, I was floored by How how terrible the advice was that they were given and the protocol that they were following and I thought Holy shit. These guys are doing so much damage. They have no idea and they're listening some dumb ass coach That's telling they're 30 competitors all the same information just yikes. Yeah And it's all the way through to the professional level and I cannot believe that I saw more of that In the competitive world than I ever saw in the thousands of clients that I trained my entire career Right, so I thought that was really crazy and fascinating. So it's a lot of what we talk about on the show and I agree with you man It's a it is it's a it's a crazy sport. It's just not for fuck. I don't get it. It's not for me If that fucking if that's what fucking blows your hair back Yeah, that's not for me I I just think if you identify with how you look so much And then you enter into a sport what that's your value is how you look It can be not always but it can be a recipe for disaster. Of course, right? But what it falls back on is It's no different than fucking getting leaner and having abs as it is You know having more money or or having this next thing if you're not fucking happy Those abs ain't gonna make you happy, right? Nor is That extra, you know 100 grand a year if you're fucking miserable you're gonna be miserable with cash, right? So sort your fucking self out, you know, you're and you're not just blowing smoke There's actual they've actually done scientific study on this. I mean with money for example Once there is a particular basic me needs just like 75 or 80 grand something like that I think they said 70,000. I think they said 70,000 dollars for a household in america Beyond that there is no more. There's no more correlation or relationship to becoming more happy So in other words if you have a house well, there is it's just a really fucking long way away I mean, but it's just because people are surviving at that level like if you're you know If you're someone struggling and you're making you know, you two kids single parent knocking out 30 grand a year Definitely like you're in this weird spot that you can't fucking get out of you're just treading water because Let's say you're making this 30 grand a year and and you're super frugal And and you do the right things. So you're putting away 200 bucks a month Away from your expenses and rent and stuff like that maybe if you could even do that maybe yeah And okay cool. Well, so you also don't have a vehicle. That's terribly reliable So you end up with a flat tire and now need a new tire wheel and alignment Everything I've saved in the last six months is gone. It's absorbed right away. Yeah You know or now I'm negative right and like man That's tough like that treading water thing that that survival that's tough And but once you get out of that, I mean they even do studies on lottery winners Oh, yeah, they fucked that up all the time lottery winners I think it's like they're they're they're happier for like I don't remember how many years and then done and then it goes right back to baseline Right. So now they're millionaires, but they're still or bro. Yeah, most of them actually go broke. Yeah Jim Kerry said I've quoted this a several times now Jim Kerry recently said I wish everybody could get rich and famous so they could know that that's not the answer Right. Yeah. No, it's a hundred percent right if you're not fucking happy You know that that was a weird that was a really weird thing I spent yeah, I was really broke straight out of college Opened a bicycle shop with a buddy of mine and was real fucking broke doing that for Four years and I got out of that and got a real job that I didn't particularly care about But it's easier to pay my bills than be upset So had jobs and shit I didn't like and then worked up a ladder to a job that paid well enough that things were pretty cool right and then By the time I got let go Uh in march. I essentially had you know hate brand was was paying me As much as the real job. So I've got a sweet income between these two You know, especially for where I live But there was definitely a weird awakening and like taking a minute to think that like things are okay when I got fired I'm like, oh my income just got cut in half Fuck right and then you know, it was like Like now eight months later Fucking cares right, you know, I'm not I'm not even less happy I have enough money to do the things I want to do the really only difference is The amount of money that ends up in a savings account. So some some fucking weird digital number. That's a high score That I don't touch Anyway, I mean it's never I'm never gonna be a guy that's like well got enough. I guess I'll stop working Yeah, you know, there's no fucking there. Yeah to the end of this road And I believe it or not the faster you get there. I think that the sooner you die too I believe that too, man people live a little bit longer when I have a job to do. I had no purpose That's a fact actually. Yeah, again back by side. Yeah, you fucking retire. You know what you do die Right, great work. No shit, dude. That's how it is. That's why I tell people to have no plans of retirement I'll be doing something till I die. I hope I die My retirement the reality is I mean besides the hustle and bustle of my kids are young and all that sort of stuff I'm kind of like this is almost like retirement for me in the sense that I love so I love what I do so much that I really don't consider it Of course, I get tired and all that stuff, but it's not there's not a second I don't enjoy like there's nothing at this fucking point There's nothing I actually hate more than like meeting a stranger And they're like, oh, so what are you doing like nothing? I hate more than saying I run an apparel company Like oh fucking 35 year old with a beard run selling t-shirts. Are you try saying you're a trainer, right? That sounds cool though. No, just say consultant. I just say unemployed Job it doesn't matter saying you're a writer I'm an artist. Oh, you're you're unemployed. It's like I say it and I feel like but we're doing really well I feel like I have to We're doing good man I love it when I tell people I have a podcast When I first met my girlfriend the hell do you make money? Yeah when I first met my girlfriend's dad he's like so So you have a podcast. Yeah, what else? What else do you do? That's all I do How do you how do you how does that make money you guys like uh? Like people pay to listen to your podcast. No, no, no, it's a free podcast anybody can listen. It's totally free The look on his face is like it's free and you do it and how the fuck do you make money? Dude, I think about this all the time, right? I think about like my grandfather, you know guy born in the You know late 20s early 30s You know died, you know at 96 or something years old You know probably 10 years ago and I think about conversations with this guy like war two vet Blah blah blah a guy who worked for fucking 40 years for exxon You know Did it did did the american dream the white picket fence and fucking house and you know never moved his entire life And uh like talking to him. He's like so so how's things how are things going like well? I've got an apparel company. He's like, oh, that's great. You know, uh, do you guys have a store? No All right, no store. So you you sell stuff online like yeah, yeah, you know, some people buy stuff He's like, okay cool. So people buy it and you ship it out and I'm like, well, I don't personally Like I've got a place that ships it out. Well, they're in Kansas. I've never been there They're who met them. No. No, I've never been to the warehouse that has all my fucking inventory in it and he's like So So what is it you say you do? It's like I take the goddamn information from the customers to the engineers that they don't have to interact. I'm a fucking people person Like that guy on office space Yeah, it's like trying to explain to my grandfather that there's adult coloring books now How the fuck are you people so stressed out about you fighting nazis? Is that Adults are taking gummy vitamins, right? Yeah Children shed some light on what it's like Do and I know you don't you don't like to be labeled that or attached to that But I think there's a lot of people that have a misconception of either one how easy is oh I'll just come out. I got a cool logo or I have a cool brand Shed some light on what what it's taken to to build it to where it can become a sustainable income like you And some of the things that you think are extremely important if you're going to do that I think my credibility in In lifting in the iron sport Helped there's no fucking doubt about it, right? So you had an audience first Yeah, I had an audience first. I was already doing some youtube stuff I was already, you know writing books and had done these type of things and people relatively knew who I was Through through a bunch of different animals, you know avenues and this is pre instagram stuff like that And so you would you had grown into being a big fish in a small pond by now So even though your pond is not huge, right? Yeah. Yeah in the highland games Yes, right and then I was able to transfer that by starting to go meet You know leave my comfort zone to go meet guys like kelly and mark and this and that and then be on mark's podcast It's not hard to meet awesome people It's the tricky part is being someone they'd like to hang out with a second time Great point. That's a good point. Great point, dude. You know because then because if it's just one creepy Yeah, we don't have a fucking relationship, right, right, you know, you're just you're just then an episode Right, you know, I want to build relationships with more fucking awesome people For sure and that'll play out. However it plays god, that's such an important point man Your true net worth is your net circle. Yeah, you know that idea and and so It's never been this really hard sales thing and I try to stay away from you know, trust my gut on like that feels gross Let's not do that You know, like even the kick today in the dick thing Like hey man, you guys should do a shirt a shirt with that like no I wouldn't wear it And that's my opinion will it sell fuck it would sell. Am I gonna make it? No? I think it's lame So it's my it's my part. Yeah, right, you know what I mean? And so You got to have a little bit of a line there that you that you don't break and be a genuine person and not And people can fucking smell fuckery. Yeah, they smell it especially today. Yeah There's so much bullshit out there and look some people get away with it and good on them But that was never going to be the fit for me. I don't have a good enough memory to be a liar Yeah, do you design all your own stuff because I think a lot of your stuff is really cool Um creative side of it. Yes. So typically I will come up with concept and I'll sketch And do that and I am a terrible digital artist But I've been really lucky that uh some guys that I had worked with years past as I tore managed for a band They are very good at it. What kind of band? Um, just rock band Toured around and did did that for a few years and uh was fun and then Drew the guy who uh who was a singer for the band now owns a creative agency uh this company slash and I've known him for 12 years and so the beauty of working with him is I can show up with What I've got sketched out and since he doesn't have to go. Hey, man. Give me five designs from scratch Like what what do you want just anything? That's the fucking worst thing you can tell a creative person like And so yeah, so I show up with what I want and then he can make it into usable Digital art, you know and polish and make it great And so that's that's where they come in and and do that side of it for me But the actual concepts and all that yeah, that's all me. Do you have a favorite or a bestseller? um The original shirt we ever did uh, is this kind of craft beer labeled looking Uh hate shirt, you know, it says you know handcrafted in the dirty south And uh that shirt we've kept on the site forever and it has always sold really really well. That's cool. Excellent You seem like a growth-minded individual what are things or areas that you're Currently exploring or growing and have nothing to do with fitness. Um So business wise or life wise whatever either. Yeah, okay. Um, what excites you the most I guess right now adventure Adventure new experiences. That's that's the big one. That's the one I want to chase and and that for me is What was the last like big adventure for your experience? Uh, we were in iceland for 10 days Um over over over the summer beautiful went with a group of like eight of us and uh It was fun and it was it was a learning experience to try to have that many people Involved in something and I didn't care for it. There was too many too many heads too many I it was a great trip Love all the people I went with but we were also trying to film And it was just too many fucking people and then it rained for like seven of 10 days and so that was Creates its own fucking problems and like nowhere in iceland is close to the next place And so as soon as you leave reiki Vic like everything's a long way away and something that's like, okay cool That's 30 miles from here that may take an hour So it's it's that that I'm trying to learn from I'm trying to learn management of time better I'm trying to Learn those things from those trips and then you know the other side of that trip was like, you know The six months we took the fucking planet and like where we were going to hit every day in this itinerary Basically was fucking out the window because of the weather And so I was like, all right. Well, now what's the story? And the story was you're experiencing this awesome place with the people that we were with Not this weird plan that we had set out with before and so I mean if anything I want to learn to be a little bit less in the driver seat You know, maybe take back and just Let's let's do what happens or you were you uh, did you feel like you were control freak before? I was trying to you know, I was really trying to because I it's tough when you're self-made when you're a self-made guy It's you've you learn to do that. Yeah, right. You learned you got to where you're at by being that guy Right, right, right, you know, we're all that guy. All of us are very comfortable making fucking choices all day You know and and you have a group of eight people You know, there's some choices that don't need to be fucking up for debate But just tell us where we're going to eat Let's not spend the next fucking four hours talking about dinner. Let's just go I'm just gonna say we're going here So that that decision is made or like We're getting gas and then doing this That's it, you know, like Most people are like, okay, cool You know and so, you know, it's learning from that. Um, they're trying to figure out where to eat with your girlfriend You know and as much as I'm trying to get new experiences from shit like that and travel And and those things I'm very interested in also Diving deeper into me and like what makes me tick and why do I feel this way and those type of things? And so there's definitely some Interest I've got in in psychedelics and some stuff like that kind of going forward. Is that more recent very recent Oh, that's a real recent thing for me. I've got no experience with it from a younger years in my life or anything like that. And so What's it done for you? Um in it, man, I'm still really fresh And so there's there's been just a little bit of like micro dosing mushrooms or something like that And so you haven't gone full on. No, I haven't gone full full barge. Um Had some cool moments in my backyard with clouds And then, you know, had some insightful stuff, you know That I thought about while while being pretty high And then, you know I've I've dipped a toe in the water enough to go like, yeah I want to see where that goes and I'm glad at 35 and relatively confident in who I am and secure with my own feelings on things about Where that journey will be, you know, that I'm along for the ride. I'm not here to drive that boat either Right, right. Yeah Anything anything right now that you, you know, when you say you're unpacking about yourself, right or digging deeper into yourself That tends to come back or you have triggers for and you've got to constantly like remind yourself like I gotta I gotta pull back on that. That's those are my old bad habits or yeah, I mean Look man, we're all self-destructive in certain ways and you know, whether that's gonna be You know food issues or shit like that. I mean hell, you know, since since I got hurt with my knee I've dropped 60 pounds. I don't need to fucking weigh 290 pounds at six foot. I'm like, I'm not throwing anymore Right, you know, so that's that's been a lot of lessons and what have you done to lose the weight? Are you just changing your diet training? I mean, look I did ketogenic style diet But I'm always weird about saying that because I didn't track ketosis The whole time you just drop carbs up your fat. Yeah, I'm a fat drop my carbs And I lived in a caloric deficit for a year Which is a better way to talk about it anyways because I hate all the fucking names for it anyways Yeah, what's all for marketing reasons? Hey, what'd you do to lose weight? I lived in a fucking caloric deficit for a year Right, right it worked out and stopped eating so much probably processed carbohydrates and switched over to any healthy facts I switched to food that was Is it green or did it have a face? Yeah, and if it's both, yeah, well, there you go one of them cried some frog That's it if it if it crawled ran swam or you know, you know any of those things if it's it was self-propelled Or is it a green plant I can eat as much of it as I want People don't tend to binge on steak and kale crazy, you know or broccoli, you know, I've done it Oh same, you know with with that said, I mean, I'm a garbage disposal. I could fucking throw food in And there's not much I don't like but you know, it was that's that's discipline to learn You know that that bit has been has it been a challenge losing that much weight and changing Because 290 pounds at six foot Pretty much any room you walk into you're the biggest you're the biggest fucker in the room Did it? Well, maybe not the room you walk into weird friends. Yeah, I was just fat Did it did was that a challenge now that you're You know so much smaller or lean or whatever was it a challenge to change like that or was it easy? Um, the only the only it's it's been nothing but positive response so far because I'm still I mean I'm still 240 pounds and you're still a big boy. You're a big guy. I'm strong and stuff like that and it's Weird having some strange shadow of abs that's never existed But like I've flirted into kind of the mid-2 30s and stuff like that and like went into a store Recently and had picked up a shirt and like got home and put it all on As an as an XL and it was bigger than I like shirts to fit and I was like We're not going to larges So time to get back in the gym boys That is so I could so identify with that for sure because I'm gonna I'm an XL guy I'm probably the lightest I've been in the last three years right now and I've been totally good with it I've been totally fine. I've been enjoying it and my mobility is better than it's ever been I feel great like But I you know, I slid on this shirt that I hadn't worn in a long time and it was like, oh, shit I'm not really feeling this shirt. I am not going to large dude back at the gym That was literally my my mentality last week. I swear to god. That's so hilarious You know, I know you know, my wife doesn't like things to fit as tight as I do So she you know, we'll we're we're like mediums. I'm like, I'm not one size bigger than her This isn't gonna I'm gonna have to sort this out So, you know, there's it's just all changes, right? And I mean You know, I sure as shit at 35 don't want to be the guy I was at 30 And I sure as shit don't want to be the guy I was at 25 Or 21 or 18 And I really hope at 40. I feel this way again Right, you know and at 45 and 50 All right, I tell you something Abraham Lincoln, man, I have no respect for a man that's no wiser today than he was yesterday Yeah, you know lived by that something I don't know man. There's something great about your 30s as a man. I feel like that's kind of when you I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like it's when I like I really feel like me comfortable yourself Yeah, like I'm really me and it makes me actually look forward to the next Right, like I what's that going to be in my 40s? Shit, I feel like at 30 you really you've just turned the switch on to start trying to learn about yourself The first 30 years I thought I figure who this is. Yeah, your brain fucking doesn't work at all until you're over 25 Yeah You basically shouldn't be allowed to do testosterone and come you should wear a fucking helmet most of the time and use nerf utensils So but like yeah after 25 you start like, you know, there's part of you that's like I gotta stop getting fucked up and going out and doing these things like that story's old Yeah, like I know the experiences I'm getting from that and you should say what's next And then you know five or six years into you know your early 30s You've hopefully been maybe at the same job for a while Have an income and have some expendable income because I mean, look things are real fucking comfortable here in America You know, I don't have an invading army. I don't have any of these things and so I'm not gonna get drafted off to war Right And so, you know, you can you can focus on that and try to be part of that growth and then you know Worry about your own ego, right? Right, you know, because I don't Have any of these stresses that our ancestors have had Which is why I think people can be so fucking offended by everything now Oh, it's because we're wildly comfortable. We're not busy enough Let's just be clear that there's four people in this room, you know, who make a living talking Not only just talking but talking about doing fucking fake work Like like we all have muscles. We don't need to survive All right, we're not stacking in the bar. We're not fucking doing construction work 10 hours a day Yeah, because we do fake work to make up for the the softness our minds up and goes away, right Because this is what we do all day. My job requires me to sit in a chair And punch away on a device that holds all the information of forever in it Oh, man, like It's awesome and it's fucking crazy Yeah, it should be though, right? Like like we're fucking this is the best time to be alive ever The people that like, oh, I'd love to be back alive in the 70s I'm like, fuck that man central air and heat and I can get on airplanes. They're not full of smoke This is fucking wonderful. Right. Yeah people. Yeah people I think that's why people freak out so much with the whole offending and all that stuff. It's because We're wired to Be under stress and because there is now we got to make it up. You gotta create it We have to create we have to invent it so soft. Yeah, well, this is why we see the rise I think of things like the spartan race and so that I think I mean it's artificial. It's amazing Yeah, it's exploding and I think it's because We've become so plugged in and we're we're so detached from our own selves that we need to feel again It's a mud in my face. I need to hurt a little bit. I need to fall, you know I'll never forget my kid was he was let's say he must have been six. He was young And uh, they were just an art, you know class or whatever drawing and stuff Maybe five maybe a younger and he drew a picture of You know the school and then there were kids and they were shooting machine guns and grenades were flying And we got called into the office. It's happening to me too. No, we got called into the office with for my five-year-old with a meeting with the principal because There's there's bombs and guns and stuff and there's a picture of the school Have you seen the news and I'm like, yeah, and I'm like I said, listen, I said my kid's five He's five. He's a boy five-year-olds do you know what I used, you know, do they not sell army men anymore? Is that not a thing? I bet they don't know Okay, I I dressed up I dressed up as a for Halloween I dressed as a mobster like you know gangster, right? So I order my costume on amazon So I'm like, oh shit. I need a tommy gun They don't sell fake guns on amazon at all none No, I had you know what they sold a blow-up A blow-up tommy gun. I'm like, I'm not gonna go Getting getting toy water guns that looked real and painting them to look like real Airsoft guns like fuck we were just talking about this yesterday or the day before when we were flying back from la I said, uh, we used to play. Uh, we used to shoot each other with BB guns It was the one pump rule. You can only pump one time and you always fucking knew when your friend Ball or any of this shit, right? Oh god, man I spent my entire kindergarten making weapons to mock like play predator Right, you know like with like these large Tinker toy type things I had a guy kicked out of school What the fuck's wrong with this kid? Yeah, you got thrown in jail likes the church strong people there's a saying what is it that tough times make Uh, good men good men make good times good times make weak men weak men make bad times And the cycle starts over and over. Yeah, there was a I had a Crosses my grandparents lived across the street from us growing up and um, so it was my grandfather my grandmother and her sister and I remember asking My my aunt I guess is what she technically is or great aunt or something like that, right? And sister is what we called her and um, I remember asking her like, why are you never married? You know and this was like a fucking 10 or 12, right? And she just fucking says all the good men died in the war Yeah, just fucking boom You know and I've always thought about that and there's a weird quote that basically says like our country now is You know generations that were raised by cowards and cripples and Oh man, there's something there's something to be said about that idea that that everyone fucking left That that World War II was a major fucking change to society huge Huge, you know, you know, there's so here's what's what's interesting is that when you look at between when you look at men and women and you look at the spectrum of You know on the left is and I don't mean this politically I mean if you just look at a chart on the left You've got people who are insane go to prison Lose their minds and all way on the right. You've got brilliant minds inventors whatever Men make up a larger percentage of either and sure because and some and scientists will say It's because our brains are designed to be a little bit more or designed or evolved or whatever you believe in Are a little more extreme and the reason the behind that and the prevailing theory behind that is because men are expendable because you could have A society where you have 10 women to every man and it would it would survive and flourish You could not have a society with 10 men to every woman because It just it just wouldn't work because it does not procreate It doesn't procreate very well and it's because we we died Killed each other through wars and shit like that all the time and not saying that it's a good thing But no, but it is a fact. It's a fact and because and because we don't have lots of challenges the same way that we had before Uh, it does it's it's interesting. It's we almost have to create Challenges for ourselves fake challenges. It's like, uh, it's like that scene in the matrix when Uh, you know, he's talking about the first matrix. We made the first matrix to be perfect But it just crashed and didn't work because the human mind couldn't comprehend this I had to create this You know, which is even more impressive, right that that there are people like like think fuck we live in a time That I can make the choice to still train And work out and fucking not eat like an asshole And and watch stranger things on netflix. Yeah and travel and do this like Fucking it's great. Yeah, things are fucking great You know, and I know other people are you know have way harder times than me But like I'm not a dude who's gonna sit there and cry about shit. No, it's a double-edged sword It's like you have because you have this free time because you have things are so awesome compared to human history throughout human history You can either choose To to try to grow Uh in ways you want to not in ways you have to like I don't have to grow in in hand to hand combat because it's not necessary But I choose to grow in the way I learn things or the way I treat people or whatever Or I can sit here and choose to just be complacent and not grow Which is not it's bad. It's terrible. It's terrible for the brain terrible for the body Um and terrible for society. Yeah, I mean Yeah, like you said get comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, that's that that's what a lot of it's about. I mean You know that that mentality of like things are fucking awesome right now That that's been a big part of I mean shit the last two years of essentially I've had seven knee surgeries in the last two years And so that's been pretty fucking rough that went from the last time I competed I took what would you do to your knee a lot? So if you had seven you pretty much did everything I would have done everything except replacement. Um So the last time I competed in the howling games, I took second at a world championship And then essentially it was like, okay, cool. I'm never throwing again And it's been I've done four acls. They just don't take A body just rejects them. And so at this point it's just like, oh fuck it. We're not gonna have one of those Um, but I did the 10 years I competed I did without an acl I tore it post college and uh or a tort in college got it fixed and then tore it again While I had a bike shop and no money. So I'm not fixing that um And then torn meniscus Uh really late in my career. I guess at the end of it now that it's late in my career because I'm not doing it um So got that fixed went to fix the acl Did this oats procedure to try to uh implant some cartilage on the femoral head And it's just never quite been right. So it's been fixing this and that and It's essentially like there was so much wrong with my knee that it was all trying to get through a hole But because there was so much wrong with it like nothing can get through so there's no problem But as soon as we fix something like fucking everything else can shoot through me like, hey What about us over here? We're shitty too And so it's just you know, it's been ongoing and and you know, that's been a real struggle and a lot to learn from of like Okay, cool I'm gonna walk with a limp for two years and not squat and not deadlift and how do you stay metabolically intact? And how do I how do I still push myself in the gym and do stuff like that because I mean at the end of the day it's It's effort, you know Choose to fucking put in the effort and that's that's growth in anything I mean you could sit there and woe is me like fuck. I don't get to compete anymore. This is what I loved and Blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, let's just be clear in the last 10 years after winning two world titles I've met all my favorite people I got to travel around the world and compete in a silly sport I got to make a few bucks. I wrote a book about it that now is a business that I run That essentially pays my life That's worth money. Good fucking trade But don't you find that rare as far as an athlete to be able to disassociate themselves with that identity? Of course it is. Of course it is, but I just think they're fucking real short-sighted Yeah, you know, I mean the thing I've always said to people is Like when I look back at throwing in college, right like that was book 14 years ago Right, like those memories are like looking at something in third person And that's not me the same way I feel about looking back at high school football That's not me anymore. And and this thing throwing that I did while I loved it and and I'm passionate about strength Like none of my fucking prs or world championships are going to make my tombstone, man That's a fucking thing I did That's it. That's a different chapter and that chapter is closed So what the fuck's next so many people have a hard time with that right? What a great what a great Attitude on things. Do you do you like to read? Yeah, do you do you what are some books that you're into now? um I say, yeah, so I do more books on tape with traveling. Um Same difference. Yeah, same idea. I'm loading the information The books I've I've I've tried recently. I end up like halfway through a lot of stuff. Um Like I picked up like subtle art of not giving a fuck. Yes, and I got about two hours into it. I was like, I already feel this way Already I don't give a shit about most of the things apparently most people care about And so I don't I don't need to waste the next four hours being validated You know, I want something that's going to make me, you know, think different routes And so a lot of that I stick to podcast almost consider podcast is fucking reading Yeah, yep You know, I'm I'm getting great place to consume information. Right. It's just I want to consume more information whether that or youtube or any of these other type of things And like I stick I stick with that like book wise man. I guess I guess I really don't fucking read very much The truth of it, but um, I'm interested in tim ferris's new book um the one with mentors I think that one's interesting and part of that's because mark senate and ed cones in it Well, shit. He did. I mean what he did was you referred to podcasting is I mean He just took all his podcast basically and the information there and put it in a book. It was really smart. Good work, tim Yeah, I know right, you know, yeah, we might steal that one later on. Yeah, right on. It's a brilliant idea for sure It's another way for people to digest information. I mean I mean, what's the last real new innovation that's come in lifting? Right, so we've all been regurgitating the same shit Yeah To people but where people fuck stuff up and where I fuck stuff up for for lifting and I think guys Like you guys do a really good job that I struggle with is that The crowd is the beginner I mean, you guys don't need to fucking motivate me to lift. I'm not I'm not your target audience Nor are you mine, right? It's the guy who's just started lifting and is now finding interest in the barbell And that's been the real shift that I'm trying to to become and that's whether it's fucking through crossfit Or it's through highland games or through powerlifting or anything If you want to pick up a barbell to get better I'm interested. I don't fucking care how you got there. Yeah, you know, I have more in common with you Than I do someone who doesn't right and You know, it's it's that information and you know, what is you know, maybe nothing maybe there isn't a lot new out there As far as those things but there really isn't when you think about what we see It's all about how you can resurrecting. Yeah, if anything you see yeah, you see, you know kettlebells and macebells and indian clubs I mean, they're these things have been around for forever forever and now they're coming back around because because you know why because None of that machine bullshit stuff that we've invented over the last 20 30 years is better than what we've been using for hundreds of years No, and it's and it's variety, right, you know, variety is spice of life and and most people get so fucking bored That they need That change, right, you know to do something different whereas like I don't need that in the gym. I'm good I can you know, hey, man, how do I get strongly? I don't know man bench squat deadlift once a week moderately heavy for the next decade Be fine Sort itself out Some weeks go heavier than you did before maybe do some or less reps Do some for a few for the next 10 fucking years. You'll be just fine You know, that's great. I think you just wrote a book. Yeah Chapter one and done Right. Well shit, man. Awesome talking. Yeah. Yeah, man. Good time. Dude. This is great Obviously won't be the last time we do this look for you hanging out with you more often Let's uh, I said we go get some lunch and then I love lunch Friends forever. We don't get to get lunch very often. Let's do something else in common Let's do some lunch and then we'll come back and hang out some more man. Excellent. Excellent. Check it out Go to uh mind pump tv On youtube we post a new video every single day that 365 videos a year subscribe to our Channel. Thank you for listening to mind pump. 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