 Thank you guys so much and thank you everybody from Probonanet. Hello everyone, good morning or good afternoon depending on where you are. We have a very exciting set of presenters that I'm going to moderate. And so, hold on, let me just... We have Tally Wells who works at Atlanta Legal Aid Society and has been the force behind the Olmsted project that we've been working with for a little while. And so he is going to be sharing information about how he has been doing advocacy, training and capacity building in the context of getting that support decision out. And then we have Kathy Daniels who is at Legal Services of Connecticut and who has been a longstanding member of the Legal Aid Tech community and of the Legal Aid community working in technology projects. So I'm very excited to have them share their projects. And before we get started, I just wanted to give a little bit of context of why we're doing this topic. And basically, you know, there's a lot of push factors that are pushing us as a community to go and innovate and bring technology in as a way to leverage ourselves and leverage the work that we do. So in thinking about training lawyers, training provolno advocates and then training ourselves and then how we do self-advocacy, what are the push factors? So these were the things that I was thinking about when I was thinking like, what would we want to showcase? And so one of the things that I think a lot of us went through is in the early, late 2000s, we were really thinking about the digital natives and we had a bunch of sessions and presentations about that. And the digital native conversation continues to be relevant. We haven't talked about it in a little bit, but it's continuing to be relevant because it's not only impacting the staff that we bring into our programs or that go into working to self-help or assistance, but also digital natives are now our clients. Anyone that's 18 or over that has legal standing is a digital native. So when we look at all the resources shrinking and technology getting commoditized and everybody having a better understanding of the benefit of technology in their personal life, we look at all of these push factors. We can see that there's a great impetus for technology. So I started thinking, okay, so what are the things that now have become ubiquitous? And for example, people are doing trainings in Google Handouts. Podcasts are kind of very normal now. They used to be really new and cool, but now a lot of programs are doing them at the national level, at the local level by substance in area. The social media icons, it's kind of like if your page doesn't have it, it's, wow, why don't they have social media? Skype is being used a lot to communicate and to do non-advice type work with clients. Crowdfunding, e-conferences, all of that. A lot of groups are working on that and experimenting on that. So all of these are just examples of what providers are doing to adopt technology. You know, there's texting projects going on, courts texting people for court appointments, legal aid texting people for appointment reminders. And now what's exciting is that there's also more integration happening where you're taking proven tools and integrating them into multiple platforms. And, you know, we have new funders also coming online. For example, the Knight Foundation funded a project in Illinois called Expungement IO, and that project uses low-help interactive to generate forms. So that's an example of an integration, but there's a lot of excitement going on in the legal aid community around technology. The other piece is the client piece, you know, and some of the things that we're dealing with, which are very real, is the DIY movement. It's a complete change in how consumers want to use and control their time and what they do. This is not a trend that is going to get reversed, and it's really reshaping our economic and our democracy. So the DIY movement is here to stay. Our clients want to do things on their own, and that's what they expect in their private life and what they're going to expect when they're getting legal services. On demand, you know, 24-7, the growth of suburban poverty is a huge factor, and it really impacts low-income communities that are not in the city. When you look at transportation and mobility barriers for suburban communities to come all the way to Center City for services, then technology really starts making a lot of sense. So all of these are kind of things that are changing in client communities, commute times, lack of buses, poor infrastructure, those kind of things. And then the demographics, the bottom line is that we have a growing group of baby boomers that are going to be aging. A significant majority of them who use computers when they were 40. So they have been using computers for 25 years or longer, some of them may have worked. Being some of the early adopters with the Commodore 64, if you remember that. So all of these are things that are changing in our client community, and they will expect and demand that we serve them online. So with this context, why did we pick the two projects that we're going to share? And basically I think that they demonstrate how technology, multiple layers of technology can be integrated in a very specific client-centric way. These projects are looking at a particular goal and then figuring out how they're going to integrate multiple tools to get that result. So that's one reason why we picked these two projects. The other thing is that they're projects that are really great, but maybe a lot of you have not had exposure to them. And there are a lot of other good projects that we are not going to have time to highlight that we're not showcasing. We may allude to them, but we wanted to bring the child in line on these two projects and these two groups, hopefully to get people to see and get inspired by this and see if they want to tackle this as part of advocate training or as part of self-advocacy with your client community groups. And very important, their collaborative in nature. You will see that they're working with a lot of other groups outside of legal aid and in our perspective, at least in mine, I know that we believe in collaboration. That is super important. Without collaboration, you create only a project that has one view of the world and that sometimes doesn't work when you're working with such a diverse community as we have here in the United States. So without more, I am going to let Kathy Daniels take us through her online classroom project in Connecticut. I will screen and move the screen, so tell me when I need to move down. I will. As you can all see, as Claudia said, this is a collaborative project. It was started by statewide legal services. We actually began this in about 2012, so I'm going to give you a little bit of background. But at this point, it includes Cali, which is a wonderful addition. They're involved in a lot of our work. CTlawhelp.org is our statewide website and we're very pleased to be working on this project through LSE's TIG program. So that's our original group of, that's our current group of collaborators. If we go to the next slide, this is going to show you what one of our online classes for self-represented parties or clients looks like. Back in 2012, we were sort of grappling with the issue of wanting to figure out a way to help clients deal with lengthy or complex, or both problems. And we decided that a classroom with more or less like a checklist on the side would walk them through the steps of the process so that they could tackle it in pieces. An awful lot of things happen likely months apart. They might have to take one action now and based on that action do something else in two weeks. But it gets complicated and a lot of people have trouble following it, so we tried to break it down. If they log into the site, they can, as you can see in the lower left, they can take notes or create a reminder for themselves. So they can sort of create their own little to-do list as they go through the class. And there's a calculator and instructions up towards the right-hand side. So what we did is in the beginning we built seven classes for self-represented parties on topics that were basically federal so that other states can use them. And, excuse me, we posted them on ctlawhelp.org and translated most of them into Spanish and put the word out in the community and they've been very well received. We built a template. We call it a template so that other states could replicate our project and not have to reinvent the wheel, as I say. We built it in Drupal because our website is Drupal. We worked with Scott Prade who did some wonderful work for us. And so this is what the classroom looks like. The following year, which is the next slide, we added on some trainings for pro bono attorneys because it is also another audience that we found would be able to use this type of activity to learn something new. The pro bono attorneys may not have handled an eviction or different types of cases. And this would give them an opportunity to go through the training and do what we ordinarily used to do in sort of a group setting and we'd get a bunch of attorneys together. We'd get a couple of pro bono lawyers together. A lot of work would go into building a training and everybody would sort of, you know, sit there and go through it, video record it, print up some materials and it was hard. It was essentially, you know, a locked in time and locked in materials if something was going to change. We'd have to redo the materials and we'd have to keep redoing the same class. So building an online class made a whole lot of sense because they're modular, as you can see on the left, steps again, excuse me. Each section, for example, if a piece of law changes, you can just change that section. So your online classroom stays current. Excuse me. Okay, so what we've done now is we realized that there was quite a bit of interest out there in building classrooms but unfortunately, our classroom template that we were happy to share was built in Drupal and if you didn't have a Drupal site, you would either have to build one out or add it onto your own site. So for this current TIG, what we did was we teamed up with Cali who has extensive experience with Drupal and working with community groups to build a national site where any program that would like to go to it can go and build their own classrooms and they don't have to maintain Drupal to do it. Excuse me. They don't have to maintain Drupal. Cali is going to maintain the site and keep hosting it going forward. The way it works is pretty exciting. People go build a site and they will be able to share content with other programs that are building out classrooms on the same site so it's essentially all in one place. Each program that goes there would have their own space and they can sort of borrow content that's generic from another site. There was a quick question here which was what is Drupal? And to really quickly answer that, it's a content management system that a lot of websites are built on. It's about like WordPress. So at any rate, people can share content on the site. We've actually built some classrooms that we're going to put up there to use as examples and we're actually starting some testing going on this week to show, to work with people from other states and other platforms to have them come in and take a look and build out their own classrooms and see how it works. We're planning to open this all up to the community probably around the end of September. The classes, some of the features of classes that are going to be good for legal aid in addition to everybody having their own space, you're going to have your own login. Think of like law help interactive where you can go and you can log in as yourself and sort of store your stuff and find your own stuff and set a certain amount of security. You're going to be able to upload your own logo so that you can put an identity on your classes. You're going to have a standardized format which is really nice for the classes. All the classes are on demand for the users. So this really ties in with what Claudia was talking about. People are on the go at this point. They want to be able to get it on their cell phone. They want to be able to get it at a time that's convenient for them and a place that's convenient for them and on a device that's convenient for them. People, they're free so that people can come and go and take them as frequently as they would like. We found that with some of the pro bono classes that we had built out, the pro bono lawyers and so we thought that was really nice and we got good feedback on it. This is a list of some of the classes, some of the samples in the classroom. This is what the content creators interface looks like. I think Claudia, if you go back, back a slide. This is one of the really big features of the classes. You can put in all sorts of types of content. This shows a YouTube video. You can embed guided interviews. You can put soluble forms. You can put graphics. You can spread sheets. And again, your own logo. Whatever you put in there is really whatever suits your class. Let's see. On the next slide, that's the sample of some of the classes that we've already put out that are going to be available for our testers to start working with. And they're on the Learn the Law site. Something that I really like about it is new users are going to be able to come to the site and actually clone something that someone else has done. For example, another state could come in and clone our restraining order class that we've put up there. I've got a quick question. Some of the viewers here headed over to Learn the Law.org. They seem not to be accepting new subscriptions. It appears that it's available to law students. Do members of the legal aid community get access to this at this point? At this point they don't. We're still working on the multi-site functionality and the login to it. What they're bumping into when they go to Learn the Law.org is an old Cali site that they had built and then sort of abandoned and we picked up. So they cannot yet get to this. But the plans are eventually to be able to? Yes, plans are definitely people are going to be able to get to it very shortly. Okay, when that happens we will be happy to post it on our blog and share it on the LS Tech list so that people know how to get access. If people want to look at what the classrooms look like they could go to cpelawhelp.org and from the homepage just scroll down sort of a little bit into the middle and they will find under the resource section the online classes and I can also let them know about the link to the pro bono afterwards. Back to... One more question here which is how are you vetting the content and contributions? We are going to give people a certain amount of latitude there are going to be terms of service. We're working with the ones that Cali has previously used and also looking at the ones from Law Help Interactive to make sure that there are not any issues with content. We're also going to watch it. But we're not trying to reinvent that wheel, we're working with people who have already been down that path and we're going to rely on their experience and make sure that it works for us. Excellent. Back to the classroom. If somebody wanted to duplicate a classroom that Connecticut had done for restraining order they could literally duplicate the steps that are in our restraining order class make a class for their own state or program and all they would have to do is update the content so that it reflects the laws and the timelines and the documents that are relevant for their state in theory. It can be that simple. So if you don't come to the table with a lot of experience writing scripts which definitely is a talent I can vouch for that. I can draw on other people and sort of get your feet wet by duplicating and updating something and uploading your own graphics a picture of your own courthouse a picture of your own forms and sort of build out something and before you know it you've got a classroom of your own. There's also a fair amount of generic content and going to court telling you what to wear that type of video that we've all seen and a lot of us have but we're going to put it up there and so if somebody else wants to use it all they have to do is go and pick it up and drop it into their classroom. They don't have to invent anything they don't have to go record anything and it's right there on the same site they don't even have to sort of search it out. As I said we're going to open it up for general use it looks like toward the end of September once the testing is done we're working out a couple of last little bugs with having multiple sites or multiple programs using the same site and sharing the same content there's some fairly sophisticated stuff going on underneath to make that work. So when you're thinking about classes we've used them so far for self-represented parties or clients and also for pro bono attorneys we're really heading now toward using them more broadly. We took our pro bono classes and made them available to interns who were coming in so the interns were able to take a class again on handling an addiction on uncontested divorce, custody, security deposits, those types of things and learn what they would ordinarily have learned in a class with our staff so again it's that same model. You can also use them for board training, for staff training so we're starting to see that these really expand resources available and they do as Claudia said respond to the way people like to work at this point and the last slide gives you our contact information and we would be very happy to talk to anybody who is interested in more information. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Kathy. Definitely keep an eye on the LS tech list and on the blog and LSNTAP site so that when this opens up for the whole community people can go and check it out. I just wanted to point out that since Connecticut went live with their classroom on the self-represented side the assembly rate of the online forms, the LHI online forms has increased so this is a really good way to integrate other projects that you have going and get even additional return on investment on that other work like a form, etc. So thank you for sharing with us. We're going to switch gears and we're going to go to new ways of doing self-advocacy and Tali Wells who has been the visionary behind this project will be our presenter and Tali just let me know when you want me to slide down. Great. Thank you. Well, I'm excited to talk about this. I saw some good questions for Kathy so stay tuned because I think she's got some other good questions to answer because they were questions I had as well. So OlmsteadWrights.org is our website that specifically is focused on the United States Supreme Court decision, Olmstead VLC which was a legal services decision that was done by the Atlanta Legal Aid Society where I work, unfortunately it was before my time but Olmstead is the most important decision for people with disabilities and our country's history it is often called the Brown v. Board of Education decision because it essentially says that anyone who's in a nursing home or other institution in your state has the right in most instances to receive the supports and services in the community, in their own homes rather than having to be segregated with all people with disabilities in an institution. Unfortunately not enough people know about Olmstead so one of, we had three main goals with our website and two of them are what I want to discuss today around self-advocacy but one of them was that people just didn't know about this decision they didn't know about the right to live in the community and certainly not how to access it and so we created an I Am Olmstead campaign which I'm going to talk about in a second to actually get the word out to folks and we have a lot of content that's based on this idea of all the different people who have been impacted on Olmstead, getting their stories out so that people could actually know what Olmstead is and then how to access their rights and then the second part of this is self-help tools. The third part is the legal advocacy tools which I'm not going to talk about today but is 50% of the website which is actually equipping lawyers to do Olmstead type cases because just because the U.S. Supreme Court issued a decision does not mean that the country has changed based on Olmstead there is a lot of work that needs to happen and a lot of work that is happening there's litigation in all 50 states so we have tools and outlines and pretty much all of the pleadings from across the country that have been filed on the website and a lot of links and things for lawyers and the members who have joined our group. And then we have the self-help tools so if you'll go to the next slide we have and this is a growing our website is not as advanced as Cassie's because we're still just finishing up our year and a half mark of the website but we have a fairly robust amount of self-help tools first just explaining what self-advocacy is and that'll be the next slide but not yet we have self-advocacy materials we have a podcast we have links and resources but first I wanted to explain why we're using the term self-advocacy and what it means on this website which is not the full meaning as in other places but self-advocacy is a critical term in lots of places but it isn't particularly important in the disability community the disability community has a phrase that is throughout the disability community that is nothing about us without us for most of our country's history people with disabilities were told where to live they were told how they were going to live they had very little control of their lives and it's critical to the disability community that this change they have the ability to be a part of every decision that's made about how they live their lives and so self-advocacy is a critical part of this advocating for oneself and I do have a disclaimer on the next slide so if you go to the next slide when we talk about self-advocacy what we are not talking about on our website and what in terms of self-advocacy in your LSE organization you are not talking about on your website is lobbying and changing public policy except through litigation and so it's important to remember to look at these rules however as we all know who are part of the TIG community that James Sandman and LSE are a huge push for us to ensure that we get self-help tools out to the larger community and that individuals be able to represent themselves and be able to advocate for themselves and so for this website the term is more limited to self-advocacy that you can do within the LSE requirements we'll go to the next page so I talked about IM Olmstead that for us is a huge part of self-advocacy is getting the stories out about people whose lives have been transformed through Olmstead and the Olmstead story is best told by the two individuals who were the plaintiffs in the Olmstead case on the right is Lois Curtis and on the left is Elaine Wilson Lois it has become a pretty famous artist she had her art put up at the White House got to meet President Obama she's never returned to an institution but she had been for most of her life up until 1995 had been an institution and basically sheltered and same with Elaine Wilson she went into an institution at I think age 13 until her 40s when she got out through the Olmstead case and both of them have become huge self-advocates they go around and Elaine has passed away now but she would go around she actually created a PowerPoint presentation would go around and share her story Lois mostly shares her story through her art and have really spread the word of Olmstead but what we did on our website was take all Lois and Elaine but lots and lots of different individuals who have been impacted by Olmstead and let them share their stories and this has also been a huge empowering piece both through our website and in other forms there's something we have here in Georgia called the Respect Institute in other states as well where people with lived experience of mental illness go around and share their stories they often at our state agency for behavioral health open every board meeting with a recovery story at many of the conferences and presentations we have people share the recovery stories because so many people have been trained and how to tell their stories and because of how much it helps their recovery journey to be able to share their stories this story is one of my favorites this is on our website this is a YouTube video of Willie who had been in an institution from 2003 2010 he was in a nursing home here in Atlanta as you can see from these phrases these are just pieces of what Willie shares in his video and the technology is simple it's video YouTube and then the amazing closed captioning that you can do on YouTube that is so simple to do and Willie shares his story and he has opened up the eyes of so many people about the individuals who are in nursing homes with much more full lives in the community and Willie since 2010 has been doing fabulous he's about 85 years old and he says he likes to get in his electric chair make sure it's charged up and get on the subway and ride from one into the other just so he can show that he's living his life and get out in the community and pretty much everybody knows Willie but for seven years he was locked away in a nursing home and it has been incredibly empowering for Willie to share his story he shared it at the Carter Center last year as we had a big Olmsted event if you'll go to the next slide we also this was a huge help to our website but it was also very empowering for the self advocates was we had a big photo shoot and we basically have all of our pictures throughout our website are individuals who have disabilities and who are self advocates and many of them who are either in a nursing home or avoided going to a nursing home through Medicaid waivers which is one of the main ways people can get Medicaid funded services in the community it's sort of the key tool for Olmsted and they're able to share their stories and spread the word if you'll go to the next slide and then these are basic tools these are simple tools these are not advanced tools but they're so helpful to spread the word is sharing the history of Olmsted and the Americans with Disabilities Act we celebrated the 25th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act last month and a year ago we celebrated the 15th anniversary of Olmsted Facebook and Twitter and blogging and the web have been a huge way and then bring people to our website so for the 16th anniversary of Olmsted and also back in the 15th anniversary of Olmsted we had a bunch of events we were tweeting and sending out Facebook posts and drawing people back into our website and showing off different parts of our website but the biggest part was the history because these were historical moments to share and we were getting hundreds of likes and shares I think our biggest one was like 300 shares on Facebook that were drawing people back to the website so these were huge ways to get people to come to the website and then they could access the self-help tools so if you'll go to the next slide we have basically broken up every state and provided all of the different ways in which if you're a person with a disability and you need supports and services to a nursing home or if you're in a nursing home or if you're in an institution you want to return to the community every state has various resources and so what we've done is broken up the 50 states and provided the tools for each of your states for all of the different organizations that can assist either in advocacy or in an individual on their own going and seeking these benefits and services later in this to help people and how to do this. One of the things we've learned and we've got to fix through our analytics and our AdWords is that putting all 50 states on one webpage was a no-no so we are in the process of splitting up all of our 50 states into 50 pages because that's going to be much better using our Google AdWords free account to draw people in if we're doing it state by state as opposed to bringing them to a page that has all 50 states and we used just a simple CSS table to create the 50 states which we're going to break apart. Next slide. Our biggest tool on the website is we had developed an A to J but we were caught right in the middle of A to J4 and A to J5 and A to J middle and we needed to go ahead and launch our website so instead we used HotDocs and the LHI format. Many of you know Kristen Verrill, I thank God every day for Kristen Verrill. She created this after we had done the template all the way complete in A to J4 and figured out we couldn't launch it. We redid it in HotDocs and we found for our purposes and ensuring that the site is fully accessible the HotDocs and LHI has been a very helpful way to do this and what we've created is a questionnaire where if you're in a nursing home you can figure out how to find who can advocate for you, your legal services organization or protection and advocacy organization. You can also we have a tool I think it's on two slides from now that we'll essentially fill out a complaint that you can file with the United States Justice Department or the Office for Civil Rights and Health and Human Services and we go through a whole questionnaire people can fill it out, file a complaint and both HHS and the Department of Justice have been incredibly active and pushing Olmsted forward so that's one way a person can file a complaint without a lawyer but we also first try to draw them in to go into the legal services attorneys and the protection and advocacy organizations that can do it as well. We also explain throughout this through different documents what the different tools are that people can access in terms of Medicaid waivers a program called Money Follows the Person and we provide guides for all of that through this platform but then also in our self-help materials. Next slide. So the questionnaire will lead to just the resources and links to get to your specific date legal services organization or protection and advocacy organization. Next slide. And these are the complaints and basically each of these lines get filled in through the hot docs. And next slide. And then we have various guides for how to do self-advocacy on your own, what terms are used, how to apply for the various programs what the various programs are that can enable individuals to live in the community and not in institutions. Next slide. And we have a whole section called self-help materials where we have worked with the National Disability Rights Network which is the umbrella organization for all of the protection advocacy organizations across the country to gather information. One of the big things right now is that there is a federal regulation that is requiring every state in order to comply with Olmsted to change how they have all their settings. And there's a lot of different meetings going on in every state around this and we've got a lot of Q&As around how you can participate in those. We've got state Olmsted plans. The United States Supreme Court actually said states should create an Olmsted plan, a plan for how they're going to comply with the Olmsted decision and we've got the various state Olmsted plans on our website. Next slide. And we also have podcasts. This is still in its infancy. Right now our podcasts are on YouTube but we are working with a host sharing app that podcasts much more broadly. And that is we're in our last six months of our TIG grant and the podcast are something we're really going to be focusing on for the end of our grant. We will be continuing to make our self-help tools much more robust and getting the word out through AdWords, through Facebook and Twitter and bringing people in. And we've been especially gratified to get a lot of feedback and a lot of suggestions and a lot of materials from individuals through getting the word out. So that's what we're doing on OlmstedRites.org and I'm happy to answer any questions. And that's my website, my email address. Thank you. Thank you both. We had, I created some resources that may be interesting for people and those are available in the PowerPoint and all of that will be downloadable for LSENTA. So we wanted to leave enough time to get people to ask and answer questions and have any discussion about these two projects and how this could be modified or adopted in different states for different audiences. So we do have a couple questions here. Kathy, there was that I'm going to read of the chat box. And then we can open it up to the public and we invite you to ask yourself and ask questions or put them through the chat box. So one of the questions, Kathy, was about CLE and it's in the chat box and it says is the content available for CLE credit in the classroom? In the classroom. I guess that would depend on the organization that's putting it there and the way they do their CLE credits. I mean, in the program they need to be aware of the LSE requirements. So I can't really give you an answer specifically on that. I see there's also a question about whether or not there's a cost and there is no cost to do this. We just want people to get together and collaborate and we're hoping to make it as easy as possible. Can you open it up to the public to our audience that is with us and see if anybody has any questions either for Tali or for Kathy? I just have a question. This is Leah Margulies from New York on the Learn the Law site. I missed how it interacts with the interactive forms. You can link out to them or embed them into the classrooms along with any other content. Yeah, because I think it would be useful, especially where we have a number of forms covering the same or relatively the same area of law like family law, for example, all the modification petitions and things like that. They could be grouped together. Yes, absolutely. Then it would be easier for other states to find what you have and some of that's going to be in your naming and your story within the site so that's very doable. Yeah, and in LHI we do have a folder for shared forms. We call it the all state form so anyone that has developer access to the LHI portal can find the forms there and take a look and see if they think they're relevant to their state and if so they could insert them here. So I think that that's a really good thing to talk about. Kathy, you and I can talk a little bit more about that if it's of interest as part of a shared resource. Okay. For the people that use this platform. This is Liz. I just had a question for Tali. I know Tali, you all have really been looking closely at your analytics as you rolled out the site and all of the outreach surrounding it and I was wondering if there's anything you've seen in that that's really stood out about which of the self-advocacy resources are most popular or something about that usage that's maybe surprised you. So I guess there's two parts of the analytics. The first thing we learned is that it really helps to get a consultant on the analytics on the Google AdWords to go along with the analytics because we did the Google AdWords and didn't bring in very many people and now we've brought in a ton of folks more recently and it's been the resources, the self-help resources that have been the primary thing but what we have not done yet and what I'm really looking for and wish we were doing this in two months so I could give you a result on that is we haven't really promoted the assessment tool yet and that's my favorite piece of the website so we don't have a lot of feedback yet. But that's going to be one of the primary ways we're going to use the Google AdWords and also some events on Facebook and using our Facebook platform is to really draw people into the assessment now that we feel really, really good about all the kinks are worked out on that but we don't have that information yet. Tali, from a system advocacy perspective do you have any goals or metrics like let's say five years from now that you said the site has been up a year and a half, are there things, high water marks that you think could be reached either in Georgia or with all of the other states that you're sharing materials on in terms of having a national impact? That's a fantastic question. Yes, we're at sort of a critical point with Olmstead. We're at in some ways a real high water mark in the sense that the U.S. Justice Department has made Olmstead a critical part of what it's doing through its Civil Rights Division and they have litigation in most of the states but it is a legal services case and legal services attorneys don't do a lot of Olmstead cases. So for me it is really making sure that self-advocates know about it enough so that people with disabilities that they're interacting with are taking advantage of Olmstead through our self-help tools but also that they're reaching out not only to the protection advocacy organizations but to the legal services organizations and that those organizations are equipped with the pleadings and the tools that we have on the website and the legal outline to actually take these cases on because it's just a tremendous amount of unmet need and one of the things that legal services attorneys sometimes don't think about is because there's protection advocacy organizations that they would take those cases but the reality is that these clients are real traditional legal services clients. There are kids who are in special education who are aging out of schools they're the elderly population, the senior citizens that we already represent and a lot of times the people we're with on wills and end-of-life planning and then just the general people with disabilities and mental illness that come through our doors every day and so for me from a systemic point of view it would be huge if every legal services organization was doing an Olmstead case which is easily possible because there's that much work that needs to be done. So for the people that have the ability to write a subcode to the NIMC disability problem code maybe to start tracking how many Olmstead cases they're looking at that would be a really great if everybody added a two number extension so that then people that are working together on national that's the kind of thing that could be done with very little effort. I had another question for you on this you know there are Supreme Court decisions that are brought by Legal Aid that eventually have deep impact in American society and for example one of them for all of you who practice public benefits is called Beverly Kelly that basically created the due process that is now required across multiple federal departments when you're denying benefits changing them or reducing them another case was brought that was brought by Contra Costa Legal Aid which is now the area legal aid in the 70s another case for example is the Sibley case which was brought by Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and I think it came out in 92 that dealt with social security and the way children and working adults are assessed for qualifications and disability that decision has also impacted the whole federal structure of social security and the impacts of hundreds of thousands of people look at some of those decisions to kind of think through how you wanted to create a website to lead to you know to get this Supreme Court decision that also is changing hopefully hundreds of thousands of lives or do you have suggestions for people who are going some people are already in federal courts of appeal and that decision itself may impact the region or it may go up to the Supreme Court do you have recommendations for programs that are going to be doing that with technology and this is a model maybe so it wasn't a legal services case but Brown v. Board of Education has always been sort of our our guide star in terms of our advocacy but also what we thought about with this website and obviously the difference is that people knew about Brown there was a lot of anger about Brown by half the country and that's why they knew about it and there was a lot of excitement and desire for change the other half the country so there's a difference there but it's having the same desegregation and integration impact and so for us it's critical for people to understand about it but for us the real sort of lesson was what's happening here in Georgia and the fact that the Justice Department has brought litigation but what didn't happen for the 15 years prior to the Justice Department coming here was essentially that we had this wonderful Supreme Court decision and we had all the people in the institution still and so how do you actually make that change and we've started to do it we've got a lot of lessons learned we have things that have been successful things that have been a disaster and we felt like it was important to get the word about what's happening not only here but around the country in all sorts of different ways so that was really the impetus for this website and then the great thing about having something that has an anniversary is there's ways to promote and celebrate it and get the word out and that's been a huge tool for us in the language advocacy realm we created a DOJ from also using LHI wonderful and that was a well received tool so let me ask a question of Kathy these two projects are really need because there are integrations they're taking technology that's mature and integrating it with other technology and really bringing a group together that is passionate and knows kind of what they're doing to kind of provide a new way of providing information so in working through your classroom Kathy where there's things that were a lot hotter than you thought like I don't know if creating the checklist for example what was the process was it easy to come up with the checklist for let's say the provono lawyers and how long did that take building the class originally was you know it took time we were very lucky to be working with Scott Friday and Kate Frank our web content manager who are both very knowledgeable and we sort of talked it out and worked it through together probably the hardest part really was getting the content together it was much harder than we thought it would be even though we had factored in the notion that okay this is substantive content you need to work with busy attorneys and get them to fit it into their schedule but actually building the classrooms themselves were was not a difficult task so the hardest part was hurting the content together that's been consistent all the way along and that's no surprise to anybody who does this kind of thing but now that it's been built in sort of a modular format it's going to be a lot easier to maintain it so it was a worthwhile investment of our time and at this point since we're moving into the national model in the project with Cali there are some of the subtleties to again I think I talked a bit about this some of the subtleties to having multiple sites using the same space and using the same content and how many copies of things exist and who owns what and how does it get edited so those are questions that we've been working through and we're feeling as though we're getting a good handle on them so we'll see as it evolves but those are the two areas where we had the most or took the most time I see that we are past the hour so I just wanted to thank the audience that stayed with us through the conversation Ryan has shared a lot of the links and resources in the chat and hopefully people will go and access those I want to thank both of you for sharing your projects I think they push our line a little further and by giving us something that now we can visualize and model after I think you ignite our imagination but also you have reduced the level of complexity and hopefully these tools will be tools that other states will want to replicate and hopefully we will continue to see increased integration of mature tools with new ways of displaying and then working creating very specific projects thank you all and thank you Brian and Les and everybody else that help with the calls and everything and I don't know I leave it to you for closing words Brian thank you so much Claudia for putting this on very informative ProbonoNet is putting on another webinar next Wednesday on process mapping for civil services so please join us for that there's also a link in the comment or in the chat to a survey this is a new topic for us both of these projects are new any feedback on the presentation today is greatly appreciated thank you guys all for coming out