 Hey everybody, welcome back to the next cast. I'm Matt and I'm Tyler. How is everybody doing? I am For before we move into what we did on Linux this week there have been questions about the live streaming of the podcast and The honest you got truth is that we have no clue what we're doing I mean, I don't know. I mean Tyler that doesn't really come as a surprise to you that we don't know. I Would hope people expect. That's what we're doing All right, we just have no clue what we're doing when it comes to streaming So as of right now the plan is to stream every other podcast It's not that streaming adds difficulty it but it does add time And it also requires us to actually you know be on time so This way it will at least lower expectations just a little bit and we can you know Work our way up to the point where maybe we stream every podcast But right now every other one and if we miss one we apologize, but we'll we'll we're working on it We're not professionals. We're half professionals And maybe half is being overly generous, I don't know Especially for me. I don't know about you about you, but I don't consider myself a pro Just not anything I watched a little bit of Gardner Bryant's the Linux gamers live stream this morning. He was editing one of his videos He does that from time to time and the way he edits videos make it look like a professionals editing view videos It's just he has all these key bindings memorized and stuff and like man. I need I want to be that guy when I throw up I Have that half the time I have so there's a key binding in Caden live and it's the letter Z For whatever reason that letter Z deletes like the first 10 seconds of a video Yeah, and I don't I mean I don't know I don't know what it's actually supposed to do but that's the end result is it deletes the first 10 seconds of the video and Because it's right next to X which I use all the time for you know, hey I'm always messing around in accidentally hitting the Z and That means that every once in a while. I'll get all the way to the end of the video I've done all the editing and getting out all the um's and aw's and ya knows out of there and I have to go back to the beginning to check to make sure that I haven't deleted Accidentally delete that first 10 seconds of the video because then I have to start all the way over again Or I have to try to line up, you know a new part of the thing. I'm sure there's easier ways to do I'm just too much of a dumbass to learn how to actually use Kate in life Anyways, I watched I was watching him. It's like always do this, but now that's a professional right there. Okay Anyways, Tyler Well, I guess what she say this is the Linux cache. We talked about Linux stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Tyler, what have you done this week in Linux? Good question Not almost anything at all Today is gonna be the day. I've been outside working like I didn't have much time to prep for this podcast Which is why I was a little bit late Matt knows I was ten bit late I was So I'm what I'm going to be doing in Linux is I'm gonna take this desktop apart So I can rewire it so I can have the front panel connectors actually working and I need to do some better cable management Slap my quadro card in here so I can pipe my the fire pro that I have into like a VM for Stuff that I want to do eventually But I'm also gonna be installing Actual just plan 9 inside of a VM because I don't know how many people know this but I Accepted a deal to spend a week in plan 9 and I have been I've been Using point nine front on this laptop here, and that's essentially all the computing stuff that I've been doing this week I spent a lot of time. I was a I was binge watching a show on Netflix and I took up considerable amount of my week Can you watch Netflix on plan 9? No, bro The internet doesn't even work on this thing When it comes to plan 9 everything plan 9 if you're if you're interested in minimalist operating systems You definitely need to check out plan 9 plan 9 is very interesting The way it makes use of your mouse is really cool but When it comes to hardware support plan 9 if you're running anything that's newer than Shit bro 15 years then it it just ain't ain't even with the odds that anything that's not ps2 It's gonna work on plan 9 is a zero it Modern hardware support on plan 9 does not exist however, there is this nifty little fork of plan 9 called 9 front which Their website is atrocious. I watched part of that stream those hilarious Yeah, their website is wow, but 9 front adds a lot of hardware support and so you should be able to get modern stuff working on it On my desktop it it actually boots, but the USB keyboard that I use doesn't for Some reason so I can't use it. I should rephrase that any any USB device that I try and boot off of this main like my main desktop Nothing happens won't work on my Dell laptop here the Man the kernel wouldn't even load it just wouldn't even not a kernel panic just nothing on this thing it boots up The Wi-Fi device in here should have support it doesn't so there's a no internet I can't get internet on plan 9 and that being said you can browse the web on plan 9 But with how bloated and modern though There's no JavaScript support like there's just none in plan 9 So I mean you can imagine you can knock off like you can imagine Instantly hundreds of websites just aren't even gonna load So it's a pretty unusable system when it comes to like modern stuff But if you want something to script that one thing about plan 9 like plumbing is really cool Like you can do some research into the plumbing on plan 9 very interesting It's a very in very well integrated system and the way it's meant to be used is very different very cool But when it comes to Linux, I haven't done much and Until Saturday the only thing that I'm gonna be doing Linux wise is using Linux as a bootloader in a plan 9 which is yay by the way Thank You Joshua for your patreon donation and my weekend plan 9 has definitely been eventful Thank You brother every time we talk about this first. Why still can't believe that happened Everyone's like live on live on TV and second. Well, you still should have asked for more money Like every time I come back like like $50 just wouldn't have been enough Speaking of asking for more money Dylan has offered he will most likely be giving me $300 So I spend a month in Windows 11 when it drops So I will most likely be spending a month in Windows 11 obviously for money because I wouldn't do it for free but We'll see how that goes Tyler's pimping himself out to use other operating system Hey man, I'm not opposed to making that dollar dollar and Oh god, that's hilarious. Um, okay All right, so what have you been up to? All right, so I God I've been for the last two weeks really trying to get artics Linux to work and I made a video about this. I'm not gonna go through and rehash everything, but I've tried multiple ISOs I've tried multiple ways of installing. I've only succeeded installing it twice once in the VM Once with XFC and then like DM screwed me over And you know Last night or I guess it was the night before last, you know, I just threw in the towel Now I was just I was done with it. So I made a video and Said signer I've now installed open suza on my hard drive that I use for reviews on this computer and it's great Open suza is fantastic The only downside I've noticed so far with open suza is that um, they're the mirrors that zipper uses Really slow. I mean just astonishingly slow and um You know, that's fine. I can put up with that I don't install enough software for that to be a real big thing The one thing that I find absolutely hilarious is is that if you know anything about the discover software center Which is what kde uses it's a it's atrocious On its best day like it's so bad It's easily the worst part of a kde plasma installed the the they're I mean I'm wrong. It's gotten better over the last couple years and you can tell they're working on it, but it's still bad Because the mirrors on open suza are so bad. It makes it a hundred times worse because nothing ever loads It's like ever loads. I like I had it open for 10 minutes It was still loading and I have good internet like I have good internet I mean, it's not gigabit internet internet or anything, but I get 200 megabits or you know, supposedly that's what I pay for You know, but you know, I have good internet So I should you know theoretically be okay But the mirrors are so bad whether or not it's just because they're so far away and maybe they don't have anything You know regional here or it's just because they're slow internet at the site. I don't know But yeah, the the mirrors on open suza are slow But other than that, I've actually really liked open suza at least up until yesterday when I installed one awesome window manager and then I did uh I got obs running And it showed that it was recording And it showed the preview in the preview pane So I went through and did a racing video You know for an awesome window manager and it was you know, gonna be another time last one that I kind of enjoy making And then you know, I saved it on to you know, one of the hard drives of my computer and went back into arco because that's where I wanted to edit it and I found out that the damn thing didn't record anything but the audio and I just I mean so mad I like Like I was just Seriously pissed off and I don't think that it has anything to do with open suza I think it has something to do with open with the with the package of Awesome window manager that they allow you to download It has some kind of dependency that just isn't there or maybe it's a Will be s problem. I don't know but it was a pain in the ass. So Yeah, I've had some very interesting time with linux The thing is so the way I have my computer set up is I have Let's say I have the mvme which is my main drive and that has arco on it And arco is going to stay there forever and ever and ever because it works Like everything I have everything here it works And I'm going to stay there until it stops working And I'm are you like I used to be a big hopper just like you are and I like how it hopped from place to place But now that I got arco working on this hard drive. I'm leaving it there. It's I'm not touching it That's why I installed that I actually bought a second So I also have two like big storage hard drives and another SSD that I store videos and stuff on but then I bought another ssd And I'm going to using that for the other hard drive other distros so I can try the distros So that's where I put open suza That that's been my experience with linux lately is just installing Stuff that doesn't like me because everybody everybody always says like artx is fine. You can get it installed but I For whatever reason things that are non-system D don't like this computer Like I tried void like everybody says void is really easy to install like I went through the install process I agree. It's easy to install if it succeeds And it didn't succeed for me and I don't Everyone's calling. Well, you're a dumbass. Well, I mean sure Uh, yeah, uh, totally agree but my But that that doesn't solve the rest of the issues Like the dumbass here can I can learn like I can read the documentation. I follow the instructions and it still doesn't work Okay, so yeah, that's that's been my experience with uh artx It got so bad that I thought my computer was broken Like I thought that that was the problem was at computer Like because I tried different usb sticks because I thought well, you know, these usb sticks are old, you know, they're I got like five of them for like 10 bucks at amazon. They're l cheapos So I go Maybe it's bad. So I tried another one same shit was happening So like, oh god, maybe the usb thing on my new controller or whatever on my computer is going bad So I downloaded a different. Oh, so you know screw. I'm going to open susan work fine. So yeah I hate linux Why why don't we do a podcast on windows man? Nothing ever goes wrong on windows, right? There you go There you go. You could get paid you could get paid To use windows for a month and suffer through it you know Yeah, but it wouldn't be I'd need more than three like I'm always I'm always looking for more money, man I'm not cheap But whatever tyler gets I have to have more. I'm sorry. That's just the way is See see hear that now everyone who's watching this just know if you need someone to do something for you cheap I'm the one to hit up and then if you just want to see matt suffer through something you can pay a premium And have him do it $375. I think is the goal for uh um gen two so Apparently, I'm not that expensive because I'm really I you know, I'm gonna get there right someday and I'm gonna really regret not sending them go higher Well, the funny part is is like I mean with as with as many people as we have like Collectively as a as a community There is definitely going to be just one of them who is like I've got paid. I got a bonus for Christmas I've got $2,000 extra $200 $8 that much and they'll just do it one time. So you'll hit that goal And have to spend a week in gen two. Oh, no, I did not say I was going to spend a week in gen two I said I would install gen two Uh, I don't know about that man. I think people complain about it You gotta install it and use it the goal has been clearly stated on patreon for like six months So it's been there. I have not changed it It's okay If I got the thing is though if I got it successfully installed and it was on hardware I went mind-spending probably some time in it. I don't know about a week But a couple days Uh, and if it went well, I continue on the the minute something went wrong though Oh, you know, the funny thing is though, uh arch sinner He he spent three days installing gen two on two computers And he streamed most of that and that scared me the fuck away like I got granted He has like it was a really old computer and like it was like a 10 year old or five years, whatever it was like a second gen i7 or something so Mine would be faster, but that scared the crap out Oh, I mean as soon as you hop on gen two I mean the the thing that everyone does that's sort of like a staple of gen two Is you install the binary version of firefox so that you can get all your other shit installed But then eventually you need to actually compile firefox for your computer And so just compile it then fall asleep and hopefully when you wake up the next morning Everything went successfully and you have firefox compile or your house is burned on because your computer has been at 100 Cp usage for the last two all hours We just won't talk about that possibility being very very real. We just won't talk about it I hope you have a really good cooling Or at least a glass for some kind of side panel on your computer, right tyler so the dust doesn't get in there and create a fire hazard Well, that's that's sort of the thing. It's funny about uh like running your system like that is Really in all honesty if you wanted to know for a fact that you have good air flow in your case and that it's actually clean Just do a gen two install and then compile firefox if everything went fine air intents weren't scary You're good. You're good, man. You there's nothing else that you can do with that machine. That's going to cause a problem You're fine My computer often sounds like a fucking airplane when I render a video so I mean, it's fine, but the air flow in this case is not good. It's a it's a ngxt h5 10 I think and it just has no flow on the top uh Whereas you have a ton of flow, but you know, I make fun of you because you have, you know, no panel But I mean people have open air builds like There are open air cases. I don't understand these people They have to be like uber like neat freaks because I mean I just like like I could dust today and there'd be dust here tomorrow It's the perils of living on a dirt road, you know, like you know, you're gonna have dust So I could never have an open air build even if it was just an accidental open air build like yours is so all right I really do have to be out here in like a half an hour, so Because we better get on it We can't we can't bullshit what they're gonna want me to if I'm late. I'm late. Who gives shit? all right, anyways If you want to get in contact with us, you can do so at the linuxcast on twitter Uh, you can subscribe to all of our audio feeds and stuff like that at the linuxcast.org That just transfers you to our to our Anchor.fm page for now eventually there will be a website there, but what yada yada yada, whatever stop promising something That's never gonna happen, man Uh, can you contact us via email at email at the linuxcast.org? You can support us on patreon at patreon.com slash linuxcast I will thank all of our patrons at the end you can follow Tyler who goes by zany on the internet on youtube and on odyssey and you can also get um Follow him on his discord server Which you can find the link for in the video description all those links were in the video description because none of them are pretty And you can also subscribe to the linuxcast on twitter at youtube.com slash linuxcast Uh, we're like, I mean we just passed 4,700. So um By the end of like october As long as everything continues the way it is five thousand is within reach which is just I mean completely and utterly fucking mind blowing. I mean I can't believe I'm almost to a thousand like that is nuts to Screw matt and his five thousand If you haven't yet subscribe to tyler because he's like this freaking close like he's like 850 or something like that So he's like 150 away from a thousand you need to go subscribe to his channel And you need to do it now stop listening to this nonsense Go to youtube and subscribe then you can come back and listen to the rest of this nonsense But he his channel his channel is awesome the link for that will be in the video description So go do that um and make sure you listen to some of his stuff because his life's his live streams that he does Pure utter entertainment man, especially if you can get him going on a rant If you you can get him ranting about um Microsoft I mean Logging you having requiring an account on github to Use the dark mode. I I'm telling you man at least two hours long of him just I mean You'll know he's gonna go on a rant because he'll hit the button on his desk So it rises up so he because he needs to rant with his whole body So he moves around as he's ranting and just oh, it's pure and utter gold need to go go subscribe All right Now that I've done my shield link for the day it's time to move on to the news All right, so each and every week tyler and I search for news items and You'll notice something with both of these links that neither of them are news Um, not really so, uh, we had a hard time finding news links this week. So we chose something different So tyler, why don't you tell us what you found this week that you found interesting? Well, um, I came across this little article here and it's about how to install the Technically it is the latest but I think we're on like 14.8 or something like that But it's how to install the 5.14 kernel on ubuntu and linux mint And I think articles and sort of basic tutorials like this on upgrading your kernel on Ubuntu linux mint distributions like this are Great because a lot of the complaints that that I hear and personally have with um ubuntu and the stable distributions is it's it would be really nice to have a much later kernel a because I mean dude between 5.11 and 5.14 the Actual kernel itself has much much more support for things like this Dell laptop And so being able to update the kernel on those those particular distributions is Amazing and quite frankly is It helps a lot. So if you're having any issues or weird annoying things that You know, you can definitely live with but Try updating your kernel if you're running ubuntu try it most likely It's going to fix That weird annoying bug or whatever that you're having to deal with Try it out. Um, I did that on uh elementary os updated the kernel to something much newer and uh, it's Much nicer. Uh, it just it's nice. So If you haven't done this do it And then you don't necessarily have to thank me at all because I'm not the one who wrote the nice article telling you how to do it I'm just the one who pointed it out. Yeah It's really weird when you're on a distribution long enough for there to be a new kernel like it used to be I think I went years without seeing like a kernel like a true kernel update like a major version like oh I just said like dot releases or whatever But like a major release. I want years because I always hopped so much I was always installing a newer kernel when I you know eventually came back to an arch based distro Because I always came back to an arch based distro. Um, yeah, so that's uh, very interesting I don't think that I've ever compiled a kernel on my own though I can actually been successful like because With arch you just you know update and it does it for you So that can be really I know I will say one thing when it comes to compiling your own kernel It's normally not ever going to be as difficult as people make it out to be as long as you don't go through there and carve out support For everything you think you don't need Um, because a lot of the times a lot of the times people compiling their own kernel will just remove stuff that they think they don't need but they do Uh, and like that's the problem when compiling a lot of kernel. I Try to tell people this if you don't know what it is and you're not Positive that you know what it is don't remove support for just to don't That's what's going to cause a lot of a lot of heart I mean that's what a lot of people when it comes to installing gen 2 mess up on they do a proper gen 2 install But then the the kernel they compile for they remove support for stuff that they clearly like I mean you can remove support for acpi If you if you wanted to I don't know why you do it, but you can So I don't know it's just one of those things where try not to come remove stuff that you don't need Still even then compiling your own kernel is not as easy as just Installing a package on arch like No, no, no, no Arch is the lazy man's distro It's for me like I get new kernels. I don't have to do anything for them. I just do Update I like I don't even have to do pseudo pac-man dash, you know s y y u I just have to do update because this man has an alias, you know There you go like I am the the laziest of men And you know semi proud of it like I work hard at my laziness Hey, like I mean you can be successful at anything and if being successful at laziness Is your thing then do do it because it's like a participation award A certificate of attendance, you know, you you're there you showed up. That's all you matters. All right My link for this week is also well, I mean it's kind of news So the news comes at the end of the article budgie or the guys behind budgie Are sick of gtk and the genom foundation So they have decided to move to enlightenment based like widgets and stuff like that so It'll be interesting to see what becomes a budgie because budgie has been based on gtk since its inception and It relies on the software stack of genom which is all made up of gtk three and four Applications, so it'll be interesting to see because they're going to have to go through and rewrite all those So it'll be very interesting if you want to read a very very good article From a developer who knows what he's talking about about the problems that they have with genom and their insistence on Doing things their own way You should definitely check out this article here. It's very very good and it's not it's not It's not a rage quit like it's not so inflammatory that you know His rage gets in the middle of his argument He has really good points here and he tries to do it in a polite and you know way to you know everything so Uh, it was really good. So I definitely go through and read that. I'm showing it on the screen now But you the link will be in the show notes as usual um, and like I said We've been talking about genom having problems with lack of customization for ages and the bottom line Of this article and everything we've said Is that the genom foundation like the developers behind genom and gtk and all those they don't care Like they don't care that their user base wants these things because they have a vision And their vision is to have a system that is locked down as possible because They want their vision to be the only way You can use your computer and if you're going to use you know, they don't care that there's other things They go they'll tell you that if you don't like it go use something else and that you know That's an attitude. I mean, I'm not saying it's a good or bad attitude. Whatever But that's definitely the way the genom foundation and the genom developers have been for Years even though they continually take out things that people like and do so for Weird reasons so instead of making their desktop environment faster By you know, actually making it good what they've done has gone through and Completely ripped out many many features in order to make it faster And developers who are listening to this, please take what we're saying to heart if you're going to Base your project off of something else You probably don't want to base it off of the project of developers who do not care what their community want Much less what other developers who are going to use their work What you need or what you want out of gtk or genom You probably shouldn't base your project off Another project that the developers openly blatantly don't give two shits what anyone thinks about what they want or should do So just say yeah, it'd be so nice because gtk has some good stuff in it Like it's a good solid library And stuff that has a lot of building blocks for applications that you know developers like to use It would be nice if somebody who's big enough ahead the resources to do so came along and fork it and And then truly made it a community project where people could actually contribute to it because People contribute from outside of the genom foundation and the main You know people contribute to genom and gtk and stuff But because the the people were in charge are so tight-fisted with it A lot of the improvements and stuff and the suggestions for making it better get completely rejected because this doesn't Line up with their vision of how they want genom and gtk though and this wouldn't be a big problem if this was uh You know whatever joe schmo's Building library or whatever if nobody used it the problem is is that The biggest distributions in our world Use genom boon to fedora, you know, you just name them right down the line I mean and it's not even the ones that are just based on genom is you know things like mate xfce Cinnamon they all use gtk and they're all reliant on this one small group of developers to do Whatever they want to do and if your distribution disagrees with that vision But you don't have the resources to transition to something that's not gtk or You don't want maybe you really like gtk and you know You don't want to continue to use it But you have things that you need to do you have to find ways of working around those limitations on your own For example adding a dark mode is not something That genom supports or gtk supports Anything any different distribution that shifts with the dark mode whether it's elementary or a boon to Those developers had to do that on their own and it is it is a hack because the genom foundation the gtk guys have gone Out of their way to make it as hard as possible to Institute of dark mode so That is I mean it's just the reality of it and it's this is why it matters so much that It's and why it's so important for when these developers have These experiences for them to be as loud as possible about it because it gets people talking about it and hopefully Eventually, maybe it will get distributions like a boon to to Maybe consider transitioning away from gtk and you know now personally I don't think that's ever gonna happen If they were going to choose kde they would have done it Back when they were switching away from unity I still think that they should have I mean I think they would have been so much happier But it's not as if kde and cute don't have their own problems with licenses and shit and nonsense like that So, I mean maybe there's not a perfect it'd be hilarious if at the end of the day The enlightenment stuff ended up being the solution because you know Enlightenment's I mean if you've ever used like the enlightenment desktop that thing. It's all this fuck And it looks all this work and even forks of it like the I think they call the macha um desktop environment it's on Bodie linux Oh, yeah, yeah, uh, even that thing looks Really really dated and it's really really weird, right? It's it's it's a weird Desktop environment it feels like it just hot straight out of the early 2000s. Yeah, that's exactly what it feels like very The only Thing I'll say about it is that it's not skew morphic. It's very very flat So it you know it deals with the flat thing really well. Um It just would be really funny if though if those if the stuff behind enlightenment was The thing that ended up winning in the end because it's more open than anything else Even though it's been around for Ages and ages forever and I think what you said about um Enlightenment possibly being like the perfect is a good transition into like the main topic for today, which Is uh unless I'm wrong here. It's uh my distro is better than your distro I don't know like You might disagree with me here But like I think the problem that people perceive with linux where there's no too much choice is sort of the The rebuttal to well, there's not ever going to be a perfect distro There's there's not ever going to be the perfect solution because there's There's no way you can have a perfect solution when the people who are going to use it are not perfect Every single person has a different opinion Um on how stuff should be on how stuff should work I mean to be honest, there are plenty of people out there who love the fact that genomics locked down If you want to use your computer in a or you you do a certain task There's a set way that you do it and you don't deviate from it You just it your your work your task will get done as long as you follow the set way that you're supposed to finish that task And some people actually enjoy that a lot of us don't But I think that's why the whole Argument of there's going to be something perfect or fix all of the issues that we have Really isn't ever going to happen because there are going to be people who genuinely believe that genome and gtk Is just night and day better than katie while the same person who's using katie believes the same thing about katie You're never going to have everyone at be Or Right and using the same thing enjoying it the same way I don't I don't think that can ever happen Yeah So that is a good transition into the main topic. So There were there when I was thinking about that this there is many ways we could we could have you know meandered into this topic So, you know We could talk about the fierce loyalty that the gen two guys have for gen two And the fierce loyalty that the arch guys have for arch and The fierceness and possessiveness if they have towards their distribution that they'll actually fight each other over which one's better And You know God bless their souls those gen two guys. They are In the comments below right now saying this doesn't look like a gen two install and um First of all, you're right. This is not a gen to install good on you. You recognize that this isn't an install of any kind actually This is a podcast But you know Like I have Fierce loyalty to archal linux I love archal linux because it works really well on my computer And I've had so many problems with so many other distributions Lately just artics, but you know, I've had problems with other ones as well And there's a reason why I keep coming back to arco because it works for me But that being said I try To realize that That's for me. It's not for everybody. But also That in the end linux is flawed like it like Yes, right now my arco setup as I was talking about before we started recording Is Really good and it's working really well, but there are things on it right now that I would like to fix So every once in a while For whatever reason my keyboard will stop working And I thought it was the keyboard but I switched out the keyboard and it had you know It just stops working the other one started stopped working too. I don't know what it is It doesn't happen on any other distro. It's really weird. It doesn't happen very often So it's not that annoying. I put up with it. You know, just a matter of plugging unplugging and plugging back in works fine There's a like a every once in a while PICOM just crashes on me. I don't know why it doesn't happen very often. Maybe once a week. It's annoying but Something that I've come to realize as I've been doing long-term reviews and Short-term reviews and distro first looks and all this stuff is that there's not a single linux distribution out there That has no flaws. I mean every single one of them has Something wrong with it that just is going to piss me off And it doesn't matter which one I chose uh on ubuntu for whatever reason obs does not like recording things when it's not In focus like if it's not on on the right monitor and in focus it doesn't record anything else anywhere else It just freezes the video freezes That happens on several other distributions, too. That's an obs problem, but still the You know, there's these flaws in every single distribution. It just you know, it happens Linux is not a perfect operating system. I could go to windows. Um, Shutter, you know And discover that there are just as many flaws on windows as you know, I've ever had on You know linux because for one thing the fan curves on windows for my computer don't work like, um I don't mean and that's the thing like expecting perfection from things that are made by people who are not perfect like it I mean, there there's you're never going to find the perfect thing for everyone ever You'll find the thing that's perfect for you eventually. It's it's perfect for you. No problems But you're not ever If the thing is is everything's temporary like You might find I don't know like let's just say down the line you install debbie and and it's absolutely perfect There's no problems. What's everything just works. You don't have any bugs whatsoever A year from now they're going to push out some bs security update that is going to break something like Perfection in of itself is temporary. You won't have it for forever um I I know I mean Lewis would probably disagree with me here, but plan nine is by no stretch of the means perfect And the fact that you can't connect to the internet I think yeah, I think we can all agree that that uh, yeah not perfect Yeah But I mean that's the thing like you're For him. He absolutely loves plan nine couldn't get enough of it. He's integrated it into like how he works on his computer and like that's I mean, that's sort of what I'm getting at that you'll never find a perfect thing as As soon as I'm off of plan nine, I probably won't ever come back into it was it was nice checking it out But I'll probably never come back to it. It's not interesting Or it's not it's not that it's not interesting. It's that it's not usable for me but Everyone's different. He loves plan nine. He uses it all the time the the idea that you're going to find this perfect distro is just it's outrageous No, the thing though is is is it really worth getting into an argument or actually getting yourself upset Over whether or not someone else thinks that their distribution is better than yours I don't like that's the thing that I don't think a lot of people understand Like you have a choice in getting upset, you know, like something drops and hits your foot It hurts really bad You have a deliberate like mental choice at whether or not you're going to Suffer through that pain and then just move on through the day or let it affect The rest of your day being pissed off. Oh, man A toe hurts couldn't a toe wouldn't be hurting if I hadn't dropped that thing but at the end of the day like it's your choice as to whether or not it's going to ruin your day and Hearing someone else say that debbie and like I've never had any problems with debbie and debbie and works perfect You're an idiot because you had problems Letting that like get gets you upset enough to the point where you spend six hours arguing about it Hopefully not worth it, man. You're not really getting anywhere Like why waste your time? Whatever works for you works for you keep using it I don't know the the loyalty that people have in their distros is Uh, it's adorable, but it's also it kind of infuriating because And like I suffer from it too But at the end of the day It's all just linux. I mean seriously I'm using like kernel 5.14 point something or whatever You're probably using linux kernel 5.14. Whatever. It's literally the same shit It doesn't matter what package manager we have on top of it If you wanted to try hard if you like Pac-Man enough that you wanted to use it on Ubuntu you could Um, like I don't know why you'd want to but you could do so. I mean you could do it Um I've watched a video of somebody who did do it, you know, if you wanted to use pac-man on gentu Mental all has a video on how to do it, you know, so At the end of the day your Attachment to your distro Makes very little sense because your attachment really is just to uh, the aesthetics of it really the the the The superficial Parts on top that sit on top of the same thing we all use it's you know the package manager And really that's it because uh, you can use dwm on any distro you want Actually, here's a good here's a good way of breaking it down to people and and really highlighting just how ridiculous It is that you fight and argue over your distro. What cheese do you like? Like what's your favorite cheese? I'm an american guy american cheese american cheese. All right. My favorite is pepper jack Would you and I ever spend six hours arguing over which one's better dare you like pepper jack cheese? You fucking traitor What are you a communist? I'm a real sleaze bag. I like pepper jack for one Here's here's the here's the crazy part You know right now in this conversation You're not going to convince me that american cheese is better because that's your preference I know that i'm not going to get convinced you that pepper jack is the best even though I like it Why would we spend six hours BSing around arguing degrading one another because of your what you literally like Especially so, you know, I like pepper jack cheese too And here's the thing six months from now your opinion might change Also, it doesn't matter at the end of the day because guess what every grocery store carries both So Whatever you want buy some of both put them in between two slices of bread. You got an amazing grilled cheese sandwich I don't actually know how well they'd combine, but it doesn't matter because you know what experiment Is the slice of life, but that's the thing is like Yes, I have a preference for arco linux, but you know I like a boom two two. I have nothing wrong with a boom two just like I have a huge preference for dwm like dwm is my window manager of choice It's the one I enjoy I don't I like switching to other ones and trying them out and I have a huge haton for for x-mone ad I can't stand haskel haskel can't stand me. It's an equal amount of hatred on both sides of that argument Uh But just because I'm a big dwm guy doesn't mean I can't Enjoy, I mean, I spent an hour yesterday Ricing awesome with a manager. You wouldn't know it because obs didn't record the damn thing, but uh I like I spent an hour ricing it was good. I learned a lot of lua in that hour like I'm not necessarily saying I really like lua. I think it has some really You know weird traits, but it's not the weirdest language I've ever Come across, you know, so it's it was really nice And I had a good time doing it and I can understand why people like using awesome window manager because it's basically dwm with a ton more features, you know, it's cool. Um, and This loyalty to your distro is, you know, fine But people have the same kind of loyalty to window managers like there's guys out there Terminal for life. I'm just looking at you right now, man loves the i3 Like he will defend. I mean he literally made a video when I said bspwm was a little bit better Literally said a little bit better on The thumbnail and he made a video You know to argue against it, which is you know, I love the video. It was fantastic, but you know Just because I liked bspwm just a little bit better doesn't mean I hated i3 You know I i3 was my first time in manager. It will always hold up space my heart I use it at least once a week. I think it's great. It's not my window manager. I don't care There's nothing wrong with it and I'm not gonna say he's a horrible person Obviously for liking i3. I mean that means I mean He's my friend. He can use whatever he wants to use, you know The fact that he can make i3 using i3 look like a professional is actually using i3 I mean that man knows really how to use i3 You want to learn how to use i3? Watch some of his videos and he'll make you feel very inferior about your abilities to use a tiley window manager But The point is you use what you like to use and you have to realize that other people get to use what they like to use too and Just because you like to use one thing doesn't mean you can't also like to use some other things So it's uh, the the fierce protectiveness that people have over their Their distros and their Window managers and their their desktop environments. I mean people they're there people out there I don't understand these people. I mean, this is the one group of people. I can't get you know my head around They love gnom. I like that's how you started out the conversation like they love Gnome like they literally Will live and die by the sword of gnom And they just love it I don't understand these people like I those are the people that Those are the people I could spend six hours arguing with because I have such a fierce hatred of gnom. It's irrational Really because it's just a desktop environment controlled by a bunch of you know Bad people You know But but see the thing though is is even as strong as your opinion is Your your I guess you're just not one of these true basement dwellers who hasn't gotten out and had a uh, a human interaction in like years and hasn't had the opportunity to have a little bit of conflict in their life and I don't know have something real to talk about because really as as fierce as your hatred of gnom is You still watch gardener brian. He he loves gnom You you're not like I I think the problem is is A lot of a lot of the people that we're talking about who have a problem with how much they like their distro or Or it creates a problem socially for them It these are the same type of people who really just need They need more interaction because they need they need to get out and get some sunlight for a little while Or from the backyard You know go go outside touch some grass, you know like just I mean really in all honesty if you if you're going to spend uh, the the prime majority Or the prime majority of your day are doing about Desktop environments with somebody you you probably don't need you need to just go outside and touch grass You probably need to go outside get naked and lay with some grass because smoke some grass That too, man Like good night because it's just it's not worth anything and at the end of the day You might as well just be arguing about what type of cheese you're like it it really doesn't matter um and and too I I think what what fervors a lot of the like The hatred and the like um the Outgoingness uh of attacking others uh who disagree with your opinion is I I think what it has to do with is people are worried that if a lot of other people Are interested and and are not interested in what you use or Whoever is having this argument is using they're worried that well If everybody starts let's just say you're a gnomelover and everybody loves i3 And you have arguments with people who are i3 lovers all day You probably get the idea that well people aren't good. There's not going to be enough development in what I like And it's just going to disappear look That ain't gonna happen. Okay, don't it just because a whole bunch of I mean if half the world Loved and I mean absolutely loved bsds and the whole the Majority of the world went over to using open bsd or just bsds in general Linux is still going to exist. I mean shit plan nine still exist and it's still getting development today So whatever you use Don't just because other A majority of other people like to use something else other than what you you like to use It doesn't mean that you're not going to get development It doesn't mean what you like to use is going to disappear That's the glory of open source as long as you like it and hell even if you can't develop for it Most likely there's five other people around the world who enjoy it At just as much as you do if you like something if if you're so invested in like something You're I mean, yes, you're a nick little you're a unique little snowflake and sunflower and all that bullshit Uh, but you're not as so unique as to have that interest by yourself because we guarantee you There's at least some other people out there that also have those same interests. It's just I mean, there are only so many Desktop environments slash distros slash window manager slash whatever that you can be interested in I mean, I think distro watch has like 230 or 240 distros Half of those are going to be things like rebecca black os and uh ubuntu c, you know Yeah, you know and see here's the funny thing as dead as Hannah Montana linux is There there are people and I only know this because I was joking around I know people who still have it installed and use it today Like not as their daily driver, but they play around with it and use like It doesn't matter what you like man. It ain't going to disappear It really isn't it's fine. It might not be what the majority of people like you might get into an even deeper sub niche of people who like what you like, but Don't argue with people because you think your shit's going to go away. It ain't going to happen there is a rational argument for saying something might disappear because there have been many distributions that have been Abandoned or stopped being developed over the last How many every years they've just gone away because they weren't popular enough for the developers to have enough time that does happen, but the vast good chance is you know You having such fierce protective over it over your distro and trying to convince other things. That's not going to make such a Difference because at the end of the day And what this all boils down to Is that it doesn't matter if you spend six hours shouting at me about how awesome linux meant is I'm never going to change my mind. Okay Uh and I could stand there with You know, I could paint my entire body in blue and wear a hat that has you know, like a arco linux logo on it You know, um That's not going to change your mind. It's going to make you run away screaming, you know But you know, it's not it's not going to change your mind You can there is no argument in any scenario where you can convince the other person in such an argument That their opinion is wrong You can't go you can't go up to joshua or any of our gentoo adorable followers who love gentoo and bleed Compiling their browsers, you know every day You're never going to change their mind that our arches better our boon too is better. It's just not and that's okay You know, you're not going to change my mind. I'm not going to change your mind in the end of the day Uh, you're just not going to and that's just the way it is and That's why the the whole argument is stupid because you can't The only reason only good time to have an argument a civilized argument at least is when there's an opportunity for Actual change on either side, you know when both Sides are equally open-minded to say well, you know, oh, you know, well, okay Maybe linux is okay and I could you know come around to it using as a daily distro or whatever Uh, but for the vast majority of people Who are so entrenched in their distros or their desktop environments and window managers or whatever You're never going to change his mind. So the And they're never going to change your mind. So just Don't have the argument. It's just making sense, right? Uh, what we want to end on because we are running out of time Imagine that we we're at it. We're at an hour already Like we're at an hour Surprisingly not a record. Sometimes we're just starting the main topic at an hour. So we're reading good. Um What I want to end on Is that if you are in trend if if you hate Something so much like whether it's you know, you hate arch or you hate a boonch or you hate linux mint or you hate GNOME, whatever I challenge you To install it and use it for a week Uh, I did. Okay. So everybody knows My opinion on linux mint. So I installed it on hardware and I used it for a week Didn't change my mind much on linux mint It did change my mind a little bit on cinnamon Cinnamon is actually a fairly good, you know, desktop environment kind of like it Uh, it reminds me a lot of xfc I don't know why you wouldn't just use xfc because I happen to like xfc a little bit better, but I used it And now at least I can say when somebody says well, why do you hate linux mint? Y'all you probably never use linux mint. Well, you know, I have it on video I did in fact install linux mint So my challenge you is if you hate something so much That you will get on the internet and get into forums and argument stuff Go install the thing you hate and spend some time with it Because the worst that's going to happen is you're going to have more ammunition for your argument because you may be Yeah, and you're going to have you're going to have much much much more solid footing in an argument As to why you don't like it because you have rational reasons, right? So go install something you hate today, uh and uh be miserable for next week and you can take me next week Yeah, so anyways, all right All right, so uh every week We do this thing called absolute picks of the week It still says absolute week in the the notion thing It's supposed to be pixel weak. It can literally be anything. It has to be an app. But uh, usually that's so Tyler You chose something today I'm not actually sure I found a link to so I can't actually show it on Thing because there's actually two things called Mitch for androids. So What is this thing you're talking about? Mitch is a little application that you can get I'm pretty sure I got it off after I might be able to get it off the aurora store as well Itch.io thing. Yep. It's just itch for androids and Absolutely love it. Um, if you like itch you like I don't know more indie style games Definitely check out Mitch for android. It's it's a great. It's a great android app for itch Absolutely fantastic. So I'm glad you said it still says apps of the week because mine Is an app 100% Yeah, so this looks interesting. Can you play any itch.io game? Well, I mean as long as it's made for android I thought I was gonna be like some cool like a streaming service for itch.io. That'd be really cool That would be um, but it it It if you haven't ever used I recommend just downloading and at least try it only because you'd be surprised at how many games there are for android on itch It's really nice. Really. It's a really nice app. I highly recommend that Cool. All right. So my app is called Let's see if it's called pansella and basically what this is is a notation app, so it's uh So if you've used flameshot Flameshot has some annotation stuff in it But that it's that is meant for taking screenshots and then you can add annotations afterwards this is for adding annotations pretty much to anything and It has it has a screenshot tool, but it also allows you to do a ton of other stuff I mean just a ton of other stuff has color picker Uh, it has uh like a laser pointer thing. It has a highlighter It just has a ton of stuff and it just sits on top of you know It just opens up up at the top of your screen and it's kind of meant for if you have like a touch screen device So you can actually use like a maybe a pencil or something like that If you if you're so high tech about it, but you could use your your mouse or whatever you wanted to I did it's actually Really really good and there's just a ton of stuff that you can do and you'll put shapes on stuff You can draw arrows You know basically skadoodle the whole thing if you wanted to do it with a pen And it's just great and it can be done on Literally anything you do and it's available Uh everywhere a debbing based arch based linux Windows macOS it's there. So it's really really cool for you an open source. It's on github. So Uh, definitely check that out. It's like I said, it was really really nice. Um And I I'm not much of a user of it. I just you know found it and used it for a little while Flamshot kind of does everything that I need to do in terms of you know annotation and stuff like that And it has all my key bindings and stuff for it. So it's not necessarily for me But I thought it was cool enough to share. So that's uh, that's pansella Really cool All right, man We did go over an hour. So that's like the fourth time in a row. We've went over an hour Technically this podcast, I don't know if anybody knows this but our original goal for this podcast was 45 minutes When we when we first down set down to uh, you know Did our negation negotiations for how long we wanted our podcast to be 45 minutes was the time Uh, and when martin was my co-host our Agreement was a half an hour There's no way we'd make it if our goal was a half an hour. Not even a chance. I don't think we have The the the talent between the two of us to not bullshit for at least I think I I gotta actually go check and see between you and I when since you and I have been doing this Which we've been doing this now since Uh, I'm gonna say may ish It's been a while so we've been going for quite a while. Uh, I don't think we've done a single one below 40 minutes. I think they've all been at least higher than that I'm I'm positive. I'd be surprised if we actually hit 45 minutes for just one of them I think there was one there that we had like was like a 42 minute podcast and I I Don't remember what this what the scenario is. I'm sure one of us had to be sick. Maybe one of us was dying or something Yeah, all right. Anyways That is it for us this week. I have no clue what's coming up next week because somebody hasn't put their thing in the document yet Come on Anyway, so we'll do something next week. I'm sure that is we do have a challenge coming up That'll either be an episode 60 Which is like four episodes or it'll be in episode 65 That's all going to have to depend on my hardware situation. I have a plan Uh, and because I'm the master of all depending on when Episodes are I get to choose when we actually do that pot that that challenge so We we will do it before episode 70, but it'll uh, it would be there 60 or 65. Anyway, so uh Before we go, I should take a moment to thank my current patrons If I can you know hit the button here devon chris east coast web gentu is fun too patrick L marcus megalon spend jackson. I have tool josh will leave steve a michel art center america camp j dog and the bsd is rock I think my patrons enjoy changing their names to things just to make me say them out loud Uh, and that's guaranteed that that's the reason why the gentu is fun too guy. I'm pretty sure that's peter. Um so, uh, yeah Be careful what you wish for because I will meme you like like Like I like I will meme it like I will get right into it. It's great. Uh, so gentu is fun too and uh, we'll see you next time boy