 Question is from Haley Phillips 34. I'm not feeling very sore a day or two after I go to the gym. Does that mean I'm not working out hard enough? Should I increase my rep ranges or weight? I remember when, when I thought soreness was a good indicator of, of workouts. In fact, that was the, I think we've all been there. Well, I remember the first time I read that it was actually a sign of overtraining and it blew my, it just shattered my paradigm. I mean, cause up until that point, that was what I was always seeking. And if I didn't get sore, I was disappointed in the workout and can thought of it as something that was, it's almost worthless. Right. That's how that was the attitude until I read that. And I believe it was an article that back, back when I was going through my NASM, I think they had shared it and I had read that and I thought, what it's actually a sign of overtraining. And so it's a, it's a more accurate sign of that than it is of a good workout. It's a terrible, it doesn't tell you at all. Yeah. If your workout was, was good or not. I, the, I'll take it a step further. I didn't make the best gains of my life until I stopped getting sore. Yeah. Okay. So before that point, every workout, the, the, one of the main goals was, can I make myself really, really sore for the next few days? And if I didn't, I'd go back to the drawing board and try to figure out a way to get myself really sore. My best gains came from when I stopped getting sore. I wouldn't get sore from my workouts. And I was getting the best gains ever. And it was because I figured out exactly what you said, Adam. Now I want to, I also want to be clear that I'm sore today. I over, I overreached. And so that's how I look at it now is I, I overreached a little bit in a perfect world for myself when I'm trying to gauge like how hard I push myself or how much volume I should be doing, because that's changes, right? Like your consistency, the workout I did that got me really sore right now is mainly because I've been really inconsistent the last, you know, four weeks or so ever since I got sick. So I overreached, normally when I'm in a rhythm and I've been training very consistently, I don't overreach like that. So what I'm looking at is can I add volume either through lifting more weight by increasing the weights that I'm lifting or increase intensity within the workout without getting sore? That is a win all the way. If I know that, hey, this workout, I did more today than I did the previous workout like this or I lifted more on my bench or I lifted more on my squat than I did the previous time and I don't get sore. That's a fuck. That is a right. That's like when you hit, when you hit a baseball and you hit right on the fucking right where you're supposed to, the sweet spot and it feels effortlessly in the ball sales versus when you muscle it and it gets out in the outfield. Like I think there's degrees to, you know, there's degrees of like I feel tight and a little bit restricted versus like I feel like, you know, like I can't even lift my arms, you know, like there's been degrees of where I've like crushed myself and like, I know too, this is where it's crucial in the very beginning. If you're a beginner and you're working with a trainer, you're just doing this on your own and you're trying to get the most out of it and where, you know, you feel that soreness is kind of normal. Like the first few weeks, you're gonna, you're gonna feel like a different tightness, a different stimulus and that's okay. If you're going, if you're exceeding that to where it's like pain and like it's hard to get out of bed and like, you know, that's definitely not a place that's optimal. You could draw a very clear, and now that I think about it, you could draw a very clear line in my career as a trainer that will tell you on one end of that line, I was not a good trainer. On the other end of that line, I was a really good trainer. This is actually, now that I think about it, probably one of the best metrics for me in terms of gauging how good I was. And here's what it is. Before that line, when I would ask a client, you know, they would, I'd train them, I'd take them through a session and I'd see them for the next workout a few days later in the following week. Ask them how they were sore. I'd say, hey, how sore were you? And if they said to me, oh my gosh, I could barely move. You're like, couldn't even brush my teeth? I used to think to myself like, yes, we did a good job. Got you. Now on the other side of the line, when I became a good trainer, if the client said to me, I kind of felt it a little bit, but not much. Oh, we did a great job. We did a good workout. Let's stay there. Totally different. On one end, I was a terrible trainer. On the other end, I became a very successful trainer. I preferred, actually, the goal was for my client to not feel sore, but rather feel maybe a little bit like they worked out, like, oh, I could feel the muscle. Listen, if they're not sore and you're adding weight to the bar, you are fucking winning. Oh, that's 100. That's the best. Yes, if you were adding weight to the bar and or able to increase intensity in the workout and you are not getting super sore from that, you are fucking winning. Totally. Body is adapting, getting stronger, building muscle. It's happening. Totally. So that's the sweet spot. And of course, when you're trying to hit that, you tend to sometimes flirt with the overreaching a little bit. And that's your kind of gauge of, OK, like the way I'm reflecting on my workout on Saturday that hindered me lifting on Sunday because I overreached and I'm really sore still today is I went, fuck, I could have eliminated that exercise or I could have stopped at two sets instead of doing four sets. Like that's how my brain is working because I did way more than I needed to to get my body to start to adapt and change. So I'm always searching for that. But the next workout, I want to make sure that I stretch myself a tiny bit and then not get as sore. If I can do that, boy, you're winning right there. It's funny, like I don't I don't really get sore from workouts anymore. I get sore from yard work. That kills me, dude. I was helping my dad the other day, move some log rounds and it's just awkward sizes. And you know, you're leaning over a lot. And of course, you're trying to like max exert to be able to get things going. And man, just killed myself. Well, that's because your goal isn't to work out. And your goal was to get done with the job. I got to, yeah, I don't care how much it hurts. I got to finish the job. So a workout's goal is not it's funny. When you're working out, you're not like building anything or moving anything. You're picking up weights and putting them down. The goal is to get your body to progress. And sort of mentality. Soreness does not indicate a great workout. Quite the contrary, if you're really, really sore, it indicates you had a bad workout. Whoa, that's what we had a great discussion. So this person, if you didn't listen to the episode we did with Max Marzo, he got into this and he actually talked, I forget what he uses a term. There's like a minimal effective dose. There's a maximal effective dose. There's a minimal dose that where it starts to take away from your progress. Right. Yeah. And I forgot what he called it. Yeah, there becomes a point where even if you're getting sore, sure, it doesn't mean you can still progress. Because there's definitely people listening right now. They're like, Dutch bullshit. I'm sore all the time and my body looks great. And yes, there's a point though when the returns on it are starting to diminish and you're doing more and you're not getting any more had you have done less. And that's the point. And I also would challenge them and say, okay, fine, you get really sore and you're making progress. Try not getting so sore. You're still going to make progress. And watch your progress accelerate. You'll actually get better progress. Even better, yeah. That's right.