 Hi there. You may be lonely for about 30 minutes. Oh. It's not 630? No. I don't know why. Normally it's 630. Today they hit me at 6. They recessed. They tore me to something. Something about a switch. Oh. Okay. That kind of switch. So they're expecting back at about 7. I'm nervous. They might be back in 15 minutes. Oh. Okay. Just so you know, this is on YouTube Live. If you can walk over there. Okay. So. Hi there. Yeah. With my new computer, when I try to print the, or to see the agenda, it comes up that small on the screen. And I can't make it any bigger. Really? Yeah. I have to talk to Al and find out what I'm doing wrong. There's got to be a way to fix that. Yeah. Uh-huh. Speaking of that, I want to go to the text. It's not Tuesday yet? It is Tuesday. It's Monday. It's not Tuesday yet? It's not Tuesday. It seems like it should be. Uh-huh. Yeah. Life has gotten very complicated. Went over to check out our space at the mall. Oh yeah? Had that work? It's going to be good. Good. It needs a lot of work. But, uh, and we have a manager who's a little rough around the edges, which has me concerned, but we'll try to keep her in line. Yeah. But we have been, my life, because what shall we say? Kicked into a different gear. Our landlord up in South Hero at the store we've been running throughout the summer and fall has made us an offer we can't refuse. Normally, once we close the store, we pay him $75 a month to store our display pieces and stuff, which is fine. He has offered to let us be open on weekends through Christmas without any extra fee. Oh, no kidding. We can't turn that down. Wow. How I run two stores at the same time is, and manage my inventory and do five craft shows. Sounds like a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Yes. Would you join YouTube live here? There you go. Oh, wow. I think they're on their way, Charlie. Well, they had a short enough meeting on Tuesday, the last DRB meeting, eight minutes. They did. Eight minutes. That was incredible. I thought they were kidding. We should have put them over at that one. Yeah. I'm working five hours over there, and eight minutes here. I did that meeting last night from the TV, and I thought they were kidding when they said eight minutes. It was eight minutes on the dot. I'm working five hours over there. Holy metro. Table under the chair. Microbotic. Probably a bad idea. Are you ready, Charlie? Yes. Okay. I'm here. I would like to reconvene the South Burlington City Council meeting of Monday, September 18th. We are on item four, is instructions on exiting the the building in case of an emergency case their emergency tonight we ask everybody to leave by one of these two doors here back out in the parking lot and gather in the lot behind us if those are blocked go back out into the main lobby and out the main door Tom and I will be responsible for making sure okay thank you so moving on to item five agenda review additions deletions are changes in order of any agenda items are there any time to talk about other business perhaps no you could add something to other business will we have if we have time we should maybe talk about the library a little bit so other business is so no action but we can discuss yeah all right no other additions changes or deletions we'll move on to six comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda are there any none we'll go to item 7 announcements and the city manages report so Tim do you want to start or sure so the last meeting you saw my letter to the editor in the Wilson observer sort of trying to counteract some of the facts that Gene Richards was citing it when he visited that select board meeting I also attended the SBBA summer mixer and then rushed from there to bikes and bikes to see Josh Panda Josh Panda is banned double thumbs up excellent concert great into the season bash wonderful food and I like the so boo bucks so boo bucks were a big hit so for the volunteers received some I also attended the 9-11 ceremony Overlake Park and as an extension of the community rounds that I did at the UVMMC I was invited to be a MMI multi-mini interviewer for the Larner Medical College so I received training on that two weeks ago and then Saturday I was able to interview 17 medical college applicants as part of a team of like 25 people so that was my first time that was really interesting and what an opportunity that's when they have given a problem and they have to work as a team yeah there's a prompt they have to read in two minutes and then come in and talk about it for six minutes yeah and there are some really smart applicants out there let me tell you but it's med school so in the fact that they got an interview they only take 660 interviews I have about 6,000 applications and from that they generate a hundred and twenty seven positions in the college so they're looking for teamwork and that kind of thing they're looking well the interview is just one aspect of the application but by distributing it among nine separate interviewers you can take out biases and bad days and things like that so you have a better understanding of the candidate through this interview process and they have the correlations and data to prove that I was at the SBBA meeting with a four-year-old first time he's ever been in a brewery I can tell you but anyway and then but he enjoyed the pizza and we went from there to the bikes and bites and it was awesome it was mobbed tons of cars there very little parking great food vendors great music it was so exciting I totally missed the 630 part where we were supposed to stand and I thought on the bandstand so I kept looking to see how many people were there I said I didn't see them so I missed that part somebody said we have to find Holly so when I found Holly she went you missed it and I said I hope you had a good time though thanking the volunteers in the community the box were very nice to receive that was a nice piece and I think everyone that was there had a great time when we look back and see all of those evenings and City Fest and the Mozart I think we are top of the heap for the Townsend Chittenden County for having put something up for there you know we could do a one-time fourth of having it go throughout the summer was wonderful I had a letter in the Colchester Sun published about a week and a half two weeks ago not really rebutting anything but just again making the argument for the regional governance topic I did attend the SBBA mixer I went to the 9-11 ceremony and I also handed out 37 bags to East Harris and Spear Street my two daughters and I know one student on that street so he's my ears and eyes so I'll keep tabs on him and I actually ran into one Bernard Sanders while walking around East Harris it was kind of funny so Bernie was taking a walk on the bike path there was the day before his birthday cruise so my daughters were ecstatic and tomorrow is the CCT a day long annual retreat so I'll be spending all day tomorrow talking about buses thank you I was on some R&R so I didn't do anything related so city manager thanks everyone thanks for the comments on bikes and bites I think the staff at the recreation and parks department and the committees and our public works department staff the the park staff who work to get the park ready and the police and the fire who are there really do a lot to make these successful and and we really need to credit them with this hard work I couldn't agree more with what Pat said the whole series of events this summer culminating last Thursday was remarkable given that two years ago we weren't weren't doing any of them and there's more to come you know Maggie and her team they got a lot of energy and so they're already planning future events but I think it's Doug Duby officer do sergeant Duby who was there estimated the crowd at one time at 1200 people and so that's just that's off the charts that's just fantastic so thank you for thank you counselors for attending those and for your comments tonight the Cathedral Square Allard Square project still needs to receive some final permits but if all goes well and as hoped they're planning for a beginning of construction on October 5th again with a caveat that there's still a couple permitting things to get done so October 5th they would start we're anticipating the beginning of construction for City Center Park on Monday this coming Monday construction will begin the building homes together organization that formed last year among many stakeholders and housing providers across the spectrum of housing will be holding a press conference on the 27th at 10 a.m. and it will be on Market Street and many communities many speakers will be there to talk about our shared goal of increasing housing stock in the region and so council members are invited to come and it'll probably be similar to the event held last year also in South Burlington the managers are meeting on Thursday to talk about mental health issue related to having embedded counselors on our first responder teams the belief in the and the best practice shows that having counselors to respond on some calls as opposed to just police officers is is is good practice and we have a proposal from Howard on this the managers will be gathering on Thursday to to go through that I think we will make some changes probably but we really want to do as the kids get now a shout out to Howard to Howard for coming forward with this proposal there's another one in the works on a larger scale that will hopefully talk to you about in a couple weeks Tom Tom and I met with the library board of trustees and Megan was there too and I would defer to Megan had she been here tonight but she is ill and so we had a discussion about the both the mostly about the transitional library and then about the purchase and sale agreement for property we spent much of the time discussing the Blanchett fund the proper use of the Blanchett fund and the library board of trustees position is that that that should not be used in any form or fashion for the transitional library we had presented to them that what we would propose to buy with those funds would be items that we would then move over to the permanent library but they were opposed to that and you know they have a joint role with us on the use of those funds and so we are we're gonna obviously honor their their position on that I also went to the SBBA so they are officially in favor of this move yep them all yes and really the only point of contention was really these correct yes we resolved that here at the meeting last week I also went to the summer mixer which was a very nice event the steering committee is scheduled to meet on Tuesday the 26th at 7 p.m. the school this is the school's year to lead that and so they will be making the arrangements with one of their meeting rooms so it's Tuesday the 26th at 7 p.m. I think Helen and I are meeting with Elizabeth and David on Friday I think I had that on my calendar I'm not sure if this and and I also went to the 9-11 ceremony which is very nice credit goes to Doug Brent and his team and both fire and police for being there's quite a quite a nice ceremony they had the ladder truck up with an American flag on it was quite a quite a nice ceremony and Paul and I were briefed in today on the results of the RFP that the University of Vermont put out for the property that they own along Spear Street and Swift and I think that's been publicly announced today that that they are looking to work with the offer put forward by the Von Turkovich family we don't know a lot more about it but they were announced today the property that the University of Vermont owns on Swift Street and Spear Street and so they let us know their announcements we will be following that as they are in negotiations that's all I got thank you the consent agenda so I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda that includes sign disbursement the minutes for September 5th and the approved municipal policies and residential anti-displacement and relocation plan pursuant to the Vermont community development program grant award conditions I have a motion second is there any discussion it says we close at 1242 a.m. I think we close at 1142 p.m. but that's true I did get home before midnight it wasn't quarter of one it was quarter 12 probably just felt that way what was amazing when I came home and wanted to turn on the baseball game to find out who won it was still going on oh well lucky you okay so with that correction in the minutes we have a motion and a second so there's no further discussion all in favor please signify by saying aye aye any opposed okay moving on to item number nine introduction of the South Burlington Chief Sustainability Officer and so the council has in recent meetings agreed to join the Climate Alliance that is an initiative that many communities in the state have signed on to in the wake of the decision related to the Paris Climate Accords but we had been talking with Paul our director of planning and zoning for quite for a number of months about other initiatives that the city could be taking around sustainability generally the energy committee in their in their sector of sustainability has done an enormously important job we have a member here tonight but an important job at advancing conservation and efficiency and also generation but there is a much broader spectrum of issues that any municipality has that demands a more focused view on sustainability and Tom and I began a dialogue with Paul probably back in May during review staff review and he was instantly interested in pursuing this so I'm very pleased and appreciative to introduce Paul tonight as your chief sustainability officer so will he also be director of planning and zoning he will have to have a really big name to talk to tonight about how he and is planning to handle great welcome congratulations thank you thank you I'm really excited about this opportunity I think it dovetails Paul Connor director of planning and zoning and I guess chief sustainability officer this this is a opportunity for the community for us to I think put a really robust framework around both the work that the city is already doing and the work that it aspires to do in a very holistic manner in your packet I gave an example from a group called star communities about how sustainability is is really a fully involved set of parameters for a community to be looking at and to be testing itself against for for future generations and so it I think it's both an opportunity to put a label or an umbrella around the amazing work that were already doing in areas of water quality energy efficiency and renewable energy generation afford ability that the affordable housing committee has been working on the the excellent works of the police department and what they've been doing and the mental health work that that's been so prevalent this summer looking at all of this together and then applying a as I said a framework to it something that we can develop a implementation plan and a self-evaluation plan that takes the at the what we're doing the aspirations laid in our laid out in in our comprehensive plan and then really makes this data driven and something where we have a measure by which we can look internally we can look at other communities and what they're doing both within New England and around the country and evaluate ourselves year to year how are we doing what progress we making on all sorts of different areas as well as give ourselves some way to measure the areas where maybe we're already doing really well and maybe don't need to press our next efforts into versus the areas of sustainability that we're not doing as well and and really some tools for you all and all of our great committees to to evaluate and to see where we need to be putting our our eggs in in future years so I think it's a tremendous opportunity I'm really excited I think it dovetails with the amazing work that this community has been doing the last few years and we're gonna get rock and rolling where we started communicating with various different partners the regional planning commission I've received some contacts with University of Vermont from various different offices there that I'm going to be reaching out to as well as some of our partners such as ICMA and others so yeah this is gonna be great really excited about it really glad to see this I couldn't think of somebody better to be the touch point to route all of the efforts and to coordinate them and aggregate them and connect the right people one real quick thing I was just up at the water tower and that room is being conditioned or air conditioned to 69 to 70 degrees I'm under the impression computing equipment could be running at a higher temp saving us energy and being more sustainable so I'd encourage us to think about that policy because I think we could keep that room at like 85 90 degrees and it cost us a lot less electricity and it might be closer to the outdoor temp so he mentioned though that once everything is up and running it's going to be considerably warmer in there did he say that yes I didn't hear that I was outside of the room yes my understanding yes that they generate a lot of heat okay thank you starting the ball rolling on the sustainability efforts but you would think that the AC would kick on more often if there was more but he loads so I mean he's got a point it was chilly in there this stuff wasn't running yet but whatever their set point is for the temperature that's probably true in every building yeah yeah every retail building in the country should raise their thermostat in the summertime by four degrees it's safe probably 10 gigawatts of power you walk into malls and they're freezing cold restaurants you have to wear a jacket right just in your essential functions document you just have a small typo oh rats number two just as manages he cities I think you meant the ah okay correction will be made are you going to be able to make me ask a question of the yes you so do you see any role for the energy committee to help you in any way here absolutely I think I think that the energy committee with the the work that they've been doing over the last few years in the Georgetown energy prize as well as their efforts in transportation and other groups they'll there'll be a pretty key group in this I think that there's also work in from the various different committees so affordability and affordable housing for residents is a part of sustainability if we can't if young families can't afford to live here we're not a sustainable community bike pad natural resources I think I think this is really going to touch all departments and all committees I do think that the the energy committees is probably going to be one of the very first ones in that because it's so clearly tied to to this about the whole ability to serve issue and how that that that ties into this yeah one of the one of the projects that we spent some time looking at this summer and we're going to be excited to share some results with hopefully in the near future is the where our revenue sources come in as a community and where our cost drivers are as a community especially out in the physical physical community I was I had the pleasure of having a sitting through a presentation by a gentleman by the name of Joe Minnet cozy who is really talking about land values values for acre per acre where communities around the country are able to where they're generating their resources and where they're expending the resources physically thinking about a community as a total number of acres and where those cost drivers are and so we're doing an evaluation of this across the city and at the same time we're looking at what is a how do we think both equitably and smartly about our our physical infrastructure that we have the community in this presentation I think he said it very succinctly that community should think as of the infrastructure that's given to us sidewalks water lines roads etc not as gifts but as liabilities because we're the ones who 30 years from now need to repair and replace them and every year until then we're plowing them and so we're really looking at carefully even today when a say an applicant comes forward and maybe they've been discussing with neighbors and they say hey you know what if we were to exceed the city's standards and put sidewalks on both sides of the street in some cases if let's say our standards are one side of street in some cases market Street or Dorset Street that is a no-brainer makes absolute sense in other areas if there's not going to be a large number of homes that may not necessarily be a gain for the city it's it's a it's a complicated discussion but it's it's an important one because to go back and then double up plowing on both sides of that plus the road in the middle isn't necessarily always a win and we've started a conversation with folks in the bike ped committee and their initial response and I won't hold them to it but their initial response is well as long as people can safely get to where the sidewalk is by a certain safe crossing points it may it makes sense to not have the goal be everywhere all the time because it does place a financial burden on us and as we look to how we best serve through plowing or other that's that's something we need to look at seriously similarly in in just a couple of years ago in our regulations we were having some discussions about where does it make sense for example for congregate care facilities to exist their best served not only for the residents but also for the city as a fire department and others in areas that are on our major transportation routes within accessible places of the fire stations for instance because it allows them to get there faster which is good for their help for for the lives of the folks who are there it allows the residents to be near public transit which is good for them and importantly for us in a fiscal perspective it's a lot faster for us to get there and so our ability to serve via the fire department instead of a ten minute trip which is then occupying that equipment and that personnel it's a shorter one and I think the discussions that Kevin has had around what's happening right now in mental health is the same question is that is that the areas that you wanted me to address there's a lot of room for for us to think about how to be a smart community that makes really efficient use of the taxpayer dollars both environmentally and fiscally I'm always concerned when someone takes on you know a whole new role but I from what you've said and from what I've read I would pose that this sounds as if this will allow you to do a more effective and better job as director of planning and zoning having this overlay of this kind of broader view of our community is that yes Kevin and Tom and I have had some conversations around the some of the resources that might be available to help with this implementation program we're doing some a little bit of internal adjustments but writ large I see this as being very complimentary to the work that we're already doing and knowing that we have the Kevin and Tom and the city manager's office behind this initiative so that as help is needed from various different departments to provide the information to have the metrics that that this will be a many hands make lights work light work circumstance do you think Kevin that this would increase the likelihood or attractiveness of a an intern colleges either graduate or undergraduate to sort of work on this I mean it sounds like it's absolutely maybe cutting edge is a little bit overstating it but certainly a more modern way of looking at planning and and and may be multiple as well more than one I think for certain and Paul's already doing some outreach in this regard we think that it would be an exciting opportunity for a student either the Rubenstein school or the engineering school or other some of our other colleges to participate in this and and we've talked about maybe trying to identify somebody in their sophomore year and keep him around working on this through through the remaining three or more years but Paul just beginning outreach has some great contacts well this if there's no further questions or comments is there any from the public okay we don't this isn't an action item this is just introduction so I just want to publicly thank Paul for for taking this on there's nobody better equipped anywhere as far as I'm concerned then Paul Connor is I'm not just talking about South Burlington does extraordinary work for us unbelievable energy great sense of humor and get stuff done so it's all good thank you since we're ahead of schedule I'd love to also look at the water billing structure possibly and sent for water conservation I think that might follow the chief sustainability officers right which has been brought up multiple times by Barbara service there you want to see one of those like the previous year's usage by month which pretty GMP does I think and so does for my gas and it just bought a new billing system so I thought they were supposed to do that oh that's too bad that's sort of par for the course yes okay well we are ahead of schedule the necessity and compensation damage hearing that's worn for eight so we have got to fill in that spot so we can't do the deliberative session because that follows number 10 so how about item 12 councillors reports from committee assignments are there any I I don't have any for Channel 17 next time we meet you will have some things for your retreat and we'll have another meeting we have one this week but okay so item 12 is taken care of not sure we can do volunteer interviews because people aren't probably aren't here unless there's one do you want to skip ahead and do that one the financials okay we could do are you suggesting we not take anyone out of order yeah well we got one guy one gentleman excuse me just one want to just do that one and then you do have others coming yeah we do okay so can you and you identify yourself okay so do you want to come up to the table Jacob and please give us a moment to get to the sheet the ones are for tonight right just has anyone found Jacob stuff yet yeah do you know what page 68 okay thank you got it all right yes okay so welcome Jacob and you are interested in the planning commission as I understand it and just so you understand the process we're interviewing everyone tonight's our last night I believe and we may or may not make decisions tonight we're down one so I'm person and these are all pretty important decisions so we may put it off or we may be able to get through it tonight but we'll ask you some questions ask you to if you have any questions for us and and then when we go into executive session we'll discuss and then let the public know and appointees know so that's good so it may happen tonight or it may be in two weeks all right so I'm sorry for putting it off so to get back to you you did identify some of the skills that you thought you would bring to a planning commission we typically ask have you been to any planning commission meetings I attended one last week it was the first one that I have attended but I have kind of been keeping up with those kind of action items in the other paper I frequently read that so I just kind of keep up on the city but I've kind of just started thinking about how I'd like to get more involved so I'd like to see South Burlington kind of in the future and help with that development of of it moving forward lived in South Burlington for let's say probably eight or nine years now I'm a native Vermont or so I'm you know invested personally in Vermont so I would like to see South I love South Burlington so I would like to see it kind of elevate and move into the future so I'm on commissions or committees before I don't see that in here I've not any committees with your work so I'm on the senior leadership at work leadership team at work so the company I work for is bowl New England it's in Colchester we own spare time bowling centers so we own 17 locations in 10 states and I oversee all the food and beverage operations so I'm you know kind of traveling frequently to all those locations but I do things like menu development training frontline execution all the way up to you know planning out construction projects working with a lot of different municipalities with health regulations as well as some of the planning of the building and so we've been doing a lot of construction over the past five years I think we've spent about 50 million and so we've done some large-scale projects and how those all tie into you know my focus is obviously food and beverage but I'm how those all tie into the city and the county and the state and kind of working with all those development pieces of it that's what kind of intrigues me about development review I guess in the development planning commission sure where did you live besides you live in Oak Creek right now yes where did you live before that I'm suburban square over by the airport near the airport right so I'm looking here back when you said that you noticed through the years that there may be opportunities to enhance areas of the city so looking at those two neighborhoods and their association with the rest of the city what are some of the ideas you have about making enhancements so some of the things I see are so I've noticed and you know there's a lot of you know I don't want to get into kind of a debate but you know I noticed there's a huge focus in South Burlington on pedestrian walkway areas bicycles and the ability for them to safely access the road and I feel like there's a lot of work we can do to kind of make the two mesh together a little better a lot of areas of South Burlington have bicyclists on the roadways which is it in my opinion isn't necessarily the safest place for them to be and so there might be an opportunity to perhaps widen some roadways that's again just one example just kind of something I've observed personally because I do I do think that people in Vermont are outdoorsy there they want a bicycle which I think makes a lot of sense and I'd love to see them be able to do it safely I'm curious we have we have a number of people looking at planning commission with only two slots have you looked at any of the other committees as being sort of a different introductory contribution or engagement with the community I mean I would say that I like anything in that in that realm of development review type of like something that that is about development or or future planning things that are looking towards the future committee we don't have any applicants have we no not that I'm aware David oh that's right yeah work committees he was willing to serve on yeah but I think there's a couple so if the planning commission since there's so much interest do you want you're interested in other committees like the city charter committee well honestly I don't know much about the city the city charter committee so I wouldn't really want to say yes without knowing about it but I would like to I would like to say that when it when you're looking at applicants for the development review or the development committee you know based on the meeting that I attended I feel like some diverse opinions might be helpful and perhaps some help moving the meeting along a little bit would be helpful because it just you know I'm sorry like I bring my work atmosphere to it a little bit where you know at our global meetings if it's not a if it's not a topic that's a global topic we're like okay so we talked about it for a certain amount of time and then we move on you know it seemed like it kind of it was a little laborious and it was a little just so with only having attended one meeting but I know you have a lot of desire that's true and we appreciate that are you aware of the commitment that's involved with the planning Commission the amount of time yep I talked to Paul Connor about it okay and you feel that you're traveling for business or whatever would not interfere because the meetings are on Tuesday nights that would I mean for the most part I would say that that would be you have any questions for us or things that we should have asked you know that you would like to share about yourself then well I I just I would say I encourage you to you know to look at all the applicants carefully and I guess think about what each one brings to the table and really know what else I could okay I just wonder if there's other experiences or interests that you think would be important for us to know but your letter kind of laid out a lot and your comments here I was just gonna give you that opportunity okay I guess one more thing I could add is that you know one thing I've learned certainly from my work experience is that you're never done learning so you can always continue learning from people that are around you so you know there's a lot of there's a lot of things that I think as that as a committee member or even you know yourself as city council members you probably learned something new every day or something new every meeting so that's something that I kind of look to be a part of as well you know I'd love to be able to be on a team that's you know looking at things and and able to kind of direct the future a little bit of the of the South Burlington community all right thank you very much all right do you want to move on to item 14 consider the addendum to the airport regional governance resolution Tim do you want to you and Megan had really worked on this yeah we just I helped with some wordsmithing a little bit of editing for you know clarity and it's basically it's it's it's the bulk of what Tom had presented originally I don't think a little bit was removed and then some things were just reworded I appreciate you and Megan pulling this together I do and I'm just gonna support this and I will make one comment and I've heard the the director of aviation state that there's untruths out there that some of the content of this resin of these points that were in the original resolution are not based in fact I would love any specific examples so I have not circled back with him on that but I I'm gonna support if we do take a vote on this this notion and I would just welcome any specific challenges to these facts because I I just blanket generalizations of untruthfulness has been it's kept me up at nights but I thank you Tim for pulling this together with Megan and if we do want to vote on it I will support it I know Pat you have I'm trying to find some mention that there were things that you were concerned with so I would be willing to look at those specific issues there are and and I'm not saying I stand here defending the airport by any means but I what I was looking for was some of the notes that I had as well that I had asked specific questions of but I was really curious and and found it really difficult to support the addendum as you know and part of the reason is for some of the comments Burlington has a strong financial interest in maintaining high noise levels at the airport I mean that to me is a subjective I mean I'm looking and saying there is nothing that stands behind that to put it in I feel that is that's that's not too appropriate I and I have a number of others I thought it was going to be when I saw the amount of time for discussion tonight it was a simple vote up or down by the counselors here as to what we had presented I don't remember this there's more than those that I have question in one of the versions you know when we talk about the 200 affordable homes that were taken down in in an area that was approved by our administration to let those homes be taken down I know but that's a fact all right well yeah but but when we talk about the the high intensity noise zone some of some of the wording in this is just problematic I agreed that the governance of the airport could certainly be broadened I don't have a problem with that I have a problem with the addendum so I will stand against the addendum but I brought out the all positive things to the airport commission on where the city stands on the resolution and that I was not opposed to a broadening of that as well I spoke in favor for the council as your representative there but there are some items in there also for example before you go any further do the highest content contribute do we want to go through them point by point and decide whether we want to strike them or reword them tonight well we had about five minutes on here I presume not so I didn't write every word out that I would like to understand I'm just I'm curious because I want to hear your opinion on those things that you want to do it what I do it with yes so then if we work through those concerns that you have and maybe we came to some agreement would you would you then possibly be able to vote yes the items on here that are that are facts that are easy preserving and enhancing the vitality of the airport sure I'm asking again if we were to work through some of the ones you had issues with would you potentially be able to vote yes on using or supporting the ones that could happen do you need a time to come up with identify I would like to take the ones that I really have a little bit of a problem with and I'd like Megan here when we do this the one that you mentioned right I don't have a problem striking that but that's but that's that's my opinion is I don't have it I don't there are some other pieces about the Platsburg Airport that are just not I don't want to say you're wrong but as you said you haven't circled back some of these in here are quite subjective and I understand that it was done with a good intent Tom of when you go out to speak to some of the other communities bringing a piece along I'm sorry that I don't agree with everyone but you know what that's why we have five counselors we don't always agree but what I don't want to do is is go through every single one that you have a problem with work through it correct some of them and then still have you vote no because of you know what I mean I I said there are some on here that are fine yeah you know that are I mean they're in fact facts well I guess I'm but you have trouble with well there's a number of stuff on some of the way that that's for it but those are facts but these but these remember what I'm looking at is these have already been as it stands here presented to some communities anyway now they haven't they have not I would welcome the airport and specifically the aviation director if this was passed to to go through and articulate is can I'd love some react feedback or reaction from him so if this would pass I'd be happy to then if a case is made on a point-by-point basis to rescind any of the point can I ask a question all the items that around here that appear to be probably about 40 or 50 on here 30 or 40 or 50 well this morning none of those have been presented to other communities this document some no no not the document pieces on here have been the original version was shared but not presented as an approved document from this council conversations when you talked with the communities some of these items undoubtedly were used as all the more reason why reasoning I don't have a problem going through this as an exercise to get the things done and if there are items on there that are you know I am not drawing the line in the sand when I'm saying is if there are items on there that I feel are reasonable I would support it I'd also support inviting the aviation director in just to talk to us about the resolutions we passed including these points I don't know if he's visited us usually once a year or so so it'd be nice to hear from him we had other communities accept our resolution to date now with all of these I want to see at least their city manager mentioned to me that she was looking at they took the revised one yes yes okay Colchester any news there I haven't followed up with them best advice I've gotten from smart people like Ed Coladney Rocky lead to it someone had said no to me and that's why I was asking so the shelter was a little bit distracted by some of the things I would say they do have a lot of things going well and Williston is scheduled to take a vote next Monday isn't that right tomorrow Williston anything they potentially have it they have announced as an item for tomorrow night at 8 0 5 p.m. I'd be glad to go down through and come up with the items that are on here that but I have a problem but when I saw a very limited time on there tonight I thought that was probably not well it's been on the and I think having all of us here would be a whole week so we have floated it around for a while I'll present it I'll present it ahead of time before the next meeting well yeah but about as soon as we we we don't get these two early either you know when they were well you have this you've had it for a couple weeks because I know Helen but I've had some medical issues I've been in Boston dealing with those I I appreciate that but I will get this to you as soon as I can have it made any changes and I am heading back down so if I am able to get it done to you I will get it as soon as I can fair enough does it make sense to request the same of the airport director I mean because I've read things I haven't heard him personally say there's just all sorts of misinformation I have read that he said that but I don't know what is misinformation I have some some of that from Nick Longo I would love that because it has kept me up at night I'll be honest with you and when I've seen Jean Richard say before the Colchester select board and the Wilson select board that that Tom Chittenden is being untruthful so I would love some specificity to that claim and that would help them they are in Dallas right now so that would make for a better resolution because I stand by everything I've put in this but I welcome specific criticism I think you should talk talk talk to him well we can make sure yes for him to attend yeah or to provide answers to it written responses that this item item you know maybe we should number these rather than have bullets so it'd be easier number them and if number five is erroneous I'd like to find out why I mean I can appreciate the one you cited that Burlington is a strong financial interest in maintaining high levels at the airport you know you can couch that with maybe you take off the high noise levels and just say Burlington is a strong financial interest in maintaining the status quo at the airport you have a strong financial interest in what maintaining the status quo at the airport no change is that I look at that and say I'm not quite sure why even that why that even that kind of a sentence even belongs in there so you don't I mean I'm looking if we're all say negative about the city of Burlington no I'm looking at the first one and saying it why couldn't we expand it and just have preserving and enhancing the vitality of the airport it's important to all the communities around here doesn't that say the same well we say that maintaining a status quo is conversation there with what we have going and perhaps it's because I do know about the the opportunity that we have for the noise mitigation piece and that maybe others are not as well first in that but yes getting the answers from the director not through me I don't speak for the airport mm-hmm well why don't we agree that at the next meeting we will review Pat's consideration should be we read the request that Nick and Jean respond similarly either in person with specifics or probably better with a written specific specific concerns about the facts my intention then would be that we would approve this in whatever form changed or not at the next meeting because I think it is an important addendum to the whole conversation that's happening in other communities about how we if nothing more it shares how this council discussed and learned and responded to different items actions activities at the airport over many years not just and it was to explain my understanding was it was to explain to others why we have the vote and on the resolution and why we came to the decision we did right so they had they know it's the context of this and not just oh they're annoyed because of one thing so is that a fair enough time frame I think if we put it any farther off it just is kind of silly you have any pressing time to get this past or it's just I would like to have it past ASAP so I'm saying my intention would be if we get any edits or when we get edits it will be before the next meeting we'll have time to review them we'll have a period of time to discuss them and and and then have a final draft that we could approve that night the alternative is just to make a motion now to pass these the alternative is that if you want to drag it out a little more and put a little pressure on getting some responses to statements that say it's full of misinformation but then you're not told what the misinformation is there are 54 items on here which is a lot to add as an addendum to something that we had pared down so that we could have something we could support 54 pieces to follow it up because there wasn't I took that as there wasn't enough in the original resolution well I took it as helpful information to more fully explain how we came to the position of supporting that resolution because those are fairly broad statements in the resolution and we had some specific items that led us to that conclusion yeah strike the item at the top of page three and then we adopt this addendum for the purposes of backing up a resolution that we passed okay so further discussion so you know I would say that as far as discussion goes that the author of this or those that worked on it basically said they had not checked back with the director of aviation on some of the items that they had a problem with even with that top item off there were other items on there that I couldn't support so that's my comment on it but you do have a motion on the floor I would assume that by now if if representative the airport hadn't directly you know reacted to this if they've had possession of it have they had had they had this yes no the document with a lot of this yes a lot of this okay but I think this has some other things from when we merged them all what I'm worried about is that if we present this to the airport for criticism right you might be waiting a long time before you get something back oh my anticipation with if we don't hear anything in two weeks then we'll move ahead because I mean we're still waiting on the mo you from the city of Burlington that's my you know right yes well he represents the city of Burlington and that was two months ago three months ago so I mean I think it's some certainly possible that we'll get nothing back but since they haven't seen it officially although I've got to believe they've seen it but I don't know did you share it with him Pat no I gladly do that but you know I look at this and say that if these are the items I can't defend all of the things that you have written here and I am opposed to some of them because of either wording or implications of what is being said or facts that really should be confirmed by someone through the airport and not us bringing items up I would love that I would love for the airport to tell me where they disagree with these statements to enter into it I mentioned it didn't follow up with Jane you haven't contacted and I'm not defending him I mean you know we have open meetings to me too and I've extended my hand many a time he hasn't seen that anyway to my knowledge he wants that it's hard to respond to intimations he want he says we need formal resolutions from deliberative bodies to respond to to commit his resources and energy to looking things over so well I guess in thinking about that I mean I I just don't want to drag this I know and I and I also think if we adopt this it will be something that if Jean prefers responding to something that is voted upon he'll have every opportunity me certainly could take this piece of paper with them to other communities and go down the list of what's wrong rather than just kind of make a blank statement that well there's just you know so many things that are inaccurate with this I don't know where to begin so there's no further discussion you ready for the vote okay all in favor of passing this resolution with the item on the top of page three that Burlington is a strong financial interest in maintaining high-noise levels at the airport he struck all those in favor signify by saying aye aye that's three any opposed post so we have adopted this with that one change three to one thank you okay now we're just a couple minutes late but we're going to open the necessity and compensation compensation damages hearing so we need a motion okay certainly so anything city attorney Andrew Bulldock and Alana Blanchard project director so back in early August this council passed a resolution to to notice pursuant to 19 vs a 709 the property owners and interested parties that are statutorily required to be noticed for lying out of a public road public highway as well as state a date and time of when the hearing would be and also the what's it called the survey of the premises so in the interim at that time I think there were four signed easement deeds with property owners four of nine since that went out in early August we now have all nine signed and I'm happy to report that that's that's how far we've gotten since then both myself Dave Rue and Alana Blanchard have been working diligently to negotiate terms and to come up with easement deeds we and we have those all now so what we recommend at this date there are still a few outstanding partial releases that need to be obtained to complete the right-of-way project what that means is for completion for final right-of-way process in order for market street to be built we need to certify to v-trans transportation agency that we have complete ownership in all easements we need an owner to move forward with the project and in order to get there we still have three four outstanding partial releases and those partial releases are just from the lender the mortgage that those who hold mortgages over the properties and those are fairly boilerplate fairly straightforward typically you're working however with large banks and it takes a little while to process you're not just calling up you know your local lender and and it's an easy you know here we go so in order to complete that process as well as to keep pressure on them we're requesting that you continue this hearing until October 2nd in order to obtain those partial releases and assuming that at that time right away will be the entire process will be complete so I will move that the council open the necessity and damages hearing for the market street reconstruction project STP 5 to 0 0 parentheses 1 7 and parentheses warned and duly noticed pursuant to 19 VSA 709 at 8 p.m. on this date and as further specified in item number 10 of tonight's council agenda second any discussion all in favor I can we are now in a hearing I will now move to continue the public hearing on necessity and compensation damages pursuant to 19 VSA 709 for the alteration of the town highway right of way for market street parentheses t.h. number 228 until 8 p.m. on October 2nd 2017 at South Burlington City Hall second second discussion all in favor signify by saying aye thank you so we are a little bit ahead of ahead of schedule should we do the financials and start the volunteer committee interviews at the right time we have a number of committee candidates right are both of you we have two okay we were expecting I think one more so don't mind have a seat and we will go through the July and August financials and then we'll be back we're normally not ahead of schedule yes today's all right so Tom thanks Helen so you have a lot of paperwork you have two months here at once so a lot of paperwork but not a lot to report at this point obviously we're kind of right on schedule right around that 17 percent mark both expenditures and revenues I'd be happy to respond to any questions and those financials but I think more importantly I'd like to share with you just the update from 17 just a more critical year we're in the process right now of getting the reports finalized to send out to department managers they'll be writing up their narratives and probably by the end of next week we'll be able to get those to you so you have those with copies of the report and we thought the auditors would be here next week but it looks like they're going to be delayed until about the first week in October they'll still be on track to do the final audit report in December that's planned but they'll just be starting a little bit later here Tom is one more correct any other questions sales option tax doing so we had just a as you saw in this financial there's just a little piece from the one that we received in May I think around May 10th so the period of time from May 10th to June 30th that number of days was attributed to 17 and then the balance through I think August 14th went into 18 fiscal year and I think we get our next report in October any indication from the state whether the Amazon sales tax is having any effect are they seeing it increased we haven't heard anything on that I know that our projection for the revenue from 17 was lower than expected and that's from the first time and well since I've been reporting to you so that was that was significant it was about an $80,000 shortfall between the rooms and meals and sales most of that was sales when the state collects that tax on their income tax form do that does some of it get remitted back to the communities that from the resident represented by whoever filed wherever they filed their taxes not for the local options not for the local option but just the income tax you can file for a rebate on that but the local options tax you can't when you fill in your taxes and your income tax should you be paying this putting in the 7% or the 6% if you're resident of South Burlington it's where you buy right well no but if you if you order a lot of I'm saying online right and your sales tax wasn't charged right and it was delivered to your door you should have been paying a 7% sales tax right so we should be getting back Andrew Andrew is left but he he is working with the tax department we've actually asked for a complete listing of all the the businesses in South Burlington because we'd like to see to make sure everybody is included it's not there's so many businesses that say such and Burlington but they actually are in South Burlington Sheridan Burlington you know just to make sure that for peace in our own minds that we can be assured that everybody that should be paying the local options tax here is but the other option he's pursuing is the Amazon one we're also looking at hotels you know in the hotel tax people that make are making online reservations Burlington doing the same thing the Airbnb or no more through Expedia you know when somebody books a hotel room here and you know are are those taxes being attributed back to the city in terms of the local option so again it's hard to trace but anyway awareness no just just to find out how we might be able to have a little bit more influence over the process so we're we're trying to do some homework with the Department of Taxes to get some of those questions answered so you're you're thinking right where we are I just this thing makes me so mad because you order stuff on the internet and they don't charge you tax right and you and you Amazon says oh you know we're gonna start charging tax and then remitting it back to the communities right the states and then you ask why wasn't I charged tax on this thing and they go it's not our problems a third-party seller you go but you promise so I mean where's the benefit you know to these taxes are supposed to be paid if they're not collected and if they're supposed to collect it you don't know they're being remitted exactly you know when I I've asked the state this before I just have I have very little faith that we're getting anywhere near what the true value taxes that were supposed to be owed based upon the transactions that are occurring on the internet and locally more so locally locally but I think it's probably pretty pretty good but internet wise I mean there's a siphon going on of income for communities all across the state and in other states of the nation I'll get that out that soapbox no but it just agreed or with you we're trying to see what we can do to have more of an impact with your question so when you're ordering online and you are charged a tax does that tax get back to South Berlin I think if I'm not mistaken if you put your amount into Amazon right now and it says Vermont it automatically comes up I think at six percent I'm pretty sure it comes up as seven percent does it come up if they calculate the tax yeah and that's their job and guess what computers make it pretty easy to do that you know we may have to purchase something Kevin and just left a double check and tell me whether they charge you tax or not if they didn't make sure you put it on your income tax in January February March right and there did you get that letter I did get that letter did you get that letter we did everybody's gonna get that letter at some point right and and the tax commissioner kind of said well this would be really hard for you to determine but this is a good prod for people to remind them that they do have that responsibility when they're not being charged when they're not paying like you're supposed to be right it's just an enormous amount of work on the individual to go back through all your credit card things and decide oh did they charge me this seven percent or not and which ones and so I would welcome from feedback anybody watching this I think it it's the onus is on the consumer at this point right to make sure that the tax collection is happening you we can't find out where the state actually gets it but what the consumer can do is report back to the state that the tax was not calculated was not placed on the order for Amazon and you can feed that back to Amazon by looking for the feedback link so I would urge everybody to just bombard Amazon with why didn't you collect the tax thank you and just to be clear the collections part of it is all resides with the state and the state provides the income back the revenue back to the communities we never see the calculation of that does the state have a chance to audit Amazon not sure who audits them but we will Andrew will continue to explore this these are good conversation and we'll report back to him and you are trying to get the breakdown for our community yeah yeah that's a separate part of it right and the internet would be important just to get a sense of me if the business as you say has a corporate head or what offices in Burlington are they getting that tax or are we and the RBMB's just you pointed out is another area to be an explorer so yeah well you're so tall when you get on a soapbox are there any other questions on financials okay well even though we're ahead of schedule we're going to start with the volunteer committee interviews so the first one we have is Linda chase on and welcome Linda thank you very much for your interests and as I understand it you are interested in joining the recreation parks committee you pronounce your last name chase on do you have any relatives in Burlington oh already their name differently they spell AI oh yours is I a okay but I did pronounce it right though okay all right so you've been a community-based volunteer for food shelf and cops lifelong gardener coordinated community gardens for 20 plus years so you've done a lot already actually in this community with the gardens correct yes I have Burlington in the 90s then I moved to Essex and I got very involved in the first organic garden site metal terrace in collaboration with the tech center project at Taft's corners where the tire store is oh the garden yes the public garden now we're over collaborating and working with Williston Central School so and you move to South Burlington in June all right so you immediately want to join that's great well we appreciate that have you Tom you want to ask your standard question did any of the meetings yet you know when they meet in the time expectations no no I understood they were like once a month from on Monday night maybe five to six thirty something of that sort but night meetings don't pose a problem for you you're retired so work your paid work anyway your volunteer work might but that's wonderful other questions thinking about well I'll ask you one so you selected parks and recreation what drove you to that versus maybe natural resources because I feel it's important to invite people to participate in community activities whether it's recreation you know and there's many facets as I look at the first brochure it's really incredible but there's so many individuals who do not and you know where I live people sit and I walk five miles a day and they're like why do you do that I was like but it's just the idea of engaging people and they think parks and Rec and Parks program here is really quite dynamic and I know there's probably more to do is the demographics change do you have any thoughts about that some areas that no I think there's a growing number of white-haired individuals growing you know in this and I don't think that there is engages that could be and can be encouraged I think a lot of it is people don't want to leave their space and you certainly don't go to a space the idea of community is to bring them out but you know I've been up to the library and you know the gardens up there and master gardeners have great respect for I'm sort of close to master gardening but never took the course so I just think people need to enjoy their community and let's offer other questions I think only one and in had a tremendous turn out of people who would like to serve on committees would you be open to another committee I know you know we just discuss if there was a huge number for a need for another committee that might be greater than this would you be open to that would be if it was a new learning experience sure right okay is there anything else you we need to know about you know just that half my roots are on Dorset Street this used to be mostly my grandfather's farm oh is that right oh wow which farm the DeLorm farm it was all my grandfather owned where the blue mall is all the way out and then next door where marketplace is that was his asparagus bed and across he owned all across with mall is but he got squeezed out very early in life from those properties when marketers you know development started my dad yeah my dad owned the Hannaford's plot he sold that off so so I'm rooted here yeah it's changed a bit well thank you very much for your interest especially having just lived here two months but you have deep roots so it's just your returning yeah that's right and we appreciate your interest thank you very much thank you very much for asking and then Rebecca Polkhead and pardon me I say it was good time oh yeah so you are interested in rec and parks also yes I'm actually a current and you're a current member right so you want to continue right how long have I been three years I think it's over three years now so roughly I was only gone for six years moved back here with my husband bought my parents house raising our two children here so for us I mean I've only not been here for six years of my life so but we use the parks so we not only use the parks for recreation but we use the parks for athletics we use you know just enjoy everything that has to do with it and we also are very we utilize a lot of the programming as a family so for me it's not just one part of what we do it's kind of everything in the big picture so you bring the perspective of an active participant in lots of things as well as appreciating the mission and the goals and a little bit of the younger blood you know I think a lot of times when you get committees you do have a certain demographic and the people that can give the time and even though sometimes it's not always easy I do make the time to make it happen so I was encouraging dad people come back and say I'd like to re-up on the committee it says the volumes for you and the committee does any other questions or comments Tim replacement so that yeah it would I was I was hemmed in a little this year because no idea we have the Hinesburg Road culvert replacement but we had the market street and my kids both go to rec mark hot you know the one good thing I have to say about is I would come to the end of my street and I didn't even have to look for traffic and it was amazing and I was like wow I really am gonna miss this you go across the street you didn't have to look for traffic but you know one way but you know yeah you know then I had to deal with all the rest of the streets but you know at that part that was nice were you affected by the flood 10 years ago when it backed up um no no other than you know just general but nothing no basement flooding or anything like that no well you must be excited about the former Dumont Park making ground there yes very very soon yes that's amazing finally we're making progress we love it okay well thank you very much for your continued interest Jessica Luizos welcome familiar face you're interested in continuing I am I that may be a trick question but I think I've been on eight years I think it was oh nine I may have written that down so which I can't I'm trying to look oh there's just two three-year term so you're looking for a three-year term or a will my so my first term I was finishing out someone else's partial term so I know it's not an exact they are the planning Commission for three years now you just do a fabulous job so I'm really glad that you're willing to give some more time to it that's great feedback yeah I think you really bring a lot of expertise that is important to the planning Commission it's a it's a big job and it's sometimes it's probably feels like you're trying to get all the hurting the cats into a decision I think prioritizing our time has been the hardest thing and you know Sue knows that we've spent a lot of time trying to really rank projects and really get a better understanding of how much time we have you know and be responsive to the public as well as being honest with both ourselves and the public but how long something might take us to work through because there's always a lot of conversation and we really want to make sure things are vetted before they're brought to you so that's a really good question you know I think one thing that I've seen that's been really neat is the the leadership committee and I'm not remembering exactly the name but it's all the chairs and vice-chairs get together quarterly interactions between the committees which I think has been really helpful for our work and also one of the neatest things is having the committees actually look through the comprehensive goals or comprehensive plan goals and strategies and kind of think about how that might influence their work so it's been it's been really nice to have kind of an extra little bit of help coordinating between committees because they've been extremely valuable to us in kind of extending the amount of time and people power that we have so I think that's one thing that's been really good you know I think you've done a good job as you've seen different things around the community they're planning related to kind of pass those on as questions or things for us to look into and I would encourage you to do the same going forward what I want to be on TV you know not really but you know I think that you know if that's something that you feel like is a community resource and you want us to do that I can you know I I know that the few times I'm in front of you I have people comment on that they saw it so I mean I think people are at least watching your meetings I don't I don't know how many more people we would reach with our questions and discussions I think I haven't thought much about it well we do have another issue that eventually we'll get to you that we had to deal with last time and that's about taking over private roads that aren't necessarily up to the right code and we're how you know how you set the precedent for that and putting to today's paper apparently we are not the only community right yes and you had mentioned that given that but anyway and today it was from center which I'm sure makes it harder for you to manage your time when we keep lobbing yet another issue I mean I think we have such a diverse city that there's just so many different pressures that we have and it's you know we just try to think ahead to what are the things that might change the most and are we prepared and making good decisions ahead of what might happen which is sometimes hard you know I really appreciate your comment about the LDR LDR is being a living doc I appreciate you've been on for a while your commitment to pursuing that document and and I think that your technical expertise is a good group of people that have a lot of different ideas but they work well together and I like that diversity I think it's good so thank you for persevering and for sharing because that's just a little more time yeah so I think one thing that I've really liked about the Commission is that it has stayed very diverse and a lot of different perspectives and a lot of different kind of areas of the city that people represent different backgrounds and I think that that is really helpful for when we're having conversations and kind of working through things so is your membership spread out I you know I don't know where everyone lives it's pretty well spread out I think we identified a few spots in the city where we didn't have as much representation right now but I think we lost some people in the Spear Street area that maybe we didn't yeah that might have been an area where we didn't have as many people how was our stipend compared to neighboring municipalities and does the chair get a slightly more than the rest how long has it been whatever it's been and I'm just not that I want to give away the taxpayers money but I'm curious if it's not a lot is it 25 bucks a meeting I don't know I haven't we don't get paid by the meeting I think it's oh you don't know it's like oh it's just a flat fee 675 dollars for the year so and then there is more for the chair but if I take more and then I need to pay tax on it so traditionally I've been donating the what is above that 676 whatever the tax limit to another fund so I think I've been choosing the open space fund usually so it just felt like it wasn't quite enough of a difference and then with paying taxes so all right so the committees that get a stipend of some sort you guys and that's all the rest don't raise our stipend I'm second really just how much three three good five dollars they went to five winners 12 they have to go to more subcommittee meetings I don't care I'd like to point out that I didn't bring this up and I'm not lobbying for anything to address that was a trick question okay thank you very much if there's no other trick questions thank you for your all your hard work so is that you are let me see where you are I think yes we had you oh there it is blue at the bottom please come forward so what I don't have the paperwork she was in our previous packets yeah okay so Laurel as I understand it your first choice is bike and ped committee and your second choice is natural resources correct that's still accurate yes okay so what's your background in you know contributing time and energy here actually not at all I moved back to Vermont eight years ago from Philadelphia and I teach at Essex High School so I'm very involved there I teach Spanish I'm head of the language department I'm co-advisor for student government and on the teacher leader committee and I would and I actually saw the ad I think in the other paper and the little magazine that you have out now which I really like yeah yeah I like that life isn't that great yeah I do I think it wasn't there and it said committee assignments and I thought oh why not and then I couldn't get the PDF to work so I'd wait till school started and printed out mail it in so yeah I thought I would I would just really like to get involved meet more people in South Burlington I mean I know people in Essex but I live here my children one just graduated from South Burlington High School and I have another one who's a junior so and my mom has lived here for 21 years so yeah bike and ped and bike and ped yes which I use every day every morning at 5 a.m. you ride your bike no I'm on I walk you walk your dog every morning yes I really use that recreation second place is natural resources oh very close yeah yeah definitely I mean I I would go where I'm needed I basically the bike and head I'm just I'm always on my bike and I love it and you know I know how hard people work to make a city or small town run so yeah I would I would just like to be involved basically that was that's my main my main motivation so you're aware of the time commitment natural resources is once they went to mom I think so and that's what it said I've never been to a meeting so but a commitment one evening I'm not afraid of meetings I'm not afraid of meetings yeah that's yeah yeah even as a teacher yeah that's all I do very early I think my me I'm not on that what do you do Spanish oh I'm teaching levels 4 5 and 8 p this is all I know yeah yeah yeah so okay any other questions anyone has or anything you think we should know I don't think so yeah because I heard all the you're very knowledgeable people who are up here before me super well thank you very much it's nice to put I've seen I've seen your faces in the paper of course actually meet you thank you very much thank you very much I go to Lowe's I see I start speaking Spanish everywhere it's everything Spanish at low it's almost the same font as the English you can't you know devil is the onus so okay that's where I'm taking my returns you go like what are you talking about like it's right there okay all right we're down to other business and the comment was yeah we are amazing yeah we took the library issue 20 of 9 oh yes Kevin would like to add an issue as well we we got a letter from Dean Richards this week asking us to a point to the technical advisory committee for the noise compatibility program but there was a contradiction in the letter and I wrote it back for clarification so the the contradiction was at the beginning of the letter he asked that we have point one person to the technical advisory committee from South Burlington but then later in the letter he says if we want to keep Helen and Paul and me and Carmen are you George George Paul me actually he said you know Carmen and George representing on the technical advisory committee as we have been representing the city on the sound committee that would be okay too so I wrote him back and said which one is it I haven't heard so assuming that either is okay what is your preference do you want do you want the same for people just kind of transition on the sound committee may continue to meet at some point as well but I'll commit to just going whenever I can but I think the four people I think before that one the other should just continue as the technical on the technical yeah the committees are all they're open so I'll assume that's okay okay okay all right so the library issues you did okay so so I had conversations with a couple residents and there was a very negative letter in the other paper I think last week as well so you know and I served on the board for six years I think it was so and we talked a lot about a new library I mean and door Whittier presented us in 2005 or six with all of their designs and elevations so I personally see this transition from I think it's a positive thing overall for a number of reasons and so my question is do we knew do we need to do some outreach to the community as the city council or perhaps a city manager with some sort of words written maybe for the other paper to try and help assure people that this is the right thing to do and and that the board is on board as well and that we're trying to resolve the some of the more minor issues like how we're going to fit out the space and things like that but I think we need to have a direct communication I don't know what that means a city council or corner but Megan is writing has written the one for the next week and she sent me a copy and as I recall not all of it but she talked about I think to basically two things the library and then the road construction on Heinsberg and marketplace so I think she did a very nice job addressing our process and how we came to these decisions and what the issues are but I don't think one counselor's corner is necessarily enough so I think we do need to consider ways to assist the library in their outreach to making it clear that they're in favor and this is just a small step to a new library so as a community we can really get rolling I think reassurance that that this is the correct thing to do you know the financials you know there's a little push and pull with a high school I don't know if that's inconsequential or not but you know if you look at on paper we're spending less initially I mean at least in terms of right but things like that but I think primarily a lot of people have a hard time with change and this is a very big change if you're used to going to SbHS to go to the community library this is a very big change so and how do you deal with change you communicate communicate communicate and you say why we're doing it you say how we're doing it and you say how things will be better because it's a transition to another spot as well so I just want to say those words and make sure that we we do as much as we can I mean if the space is available to be open did we want to do a pre-open house then invite the public to come and look at the at the space and meet with city council there and show them where the parking is you know on that underneath the garage on the first floor show them how easy a walk it is there because once you get people talking about some of the benefits I think the word will spread that it's it's not a bad thing at all yeah I like the idea of an open house I think that would be helpful I'll stand out there with a sign at the corner of the bonton and say you know take this entrance right here right yeah no I think those are our good ideas and we've spoken to a number of the people at bikes and some asked why and and so on after you start to talk with people and you explain things to them I think the attitude starts to be oh well that could be very you know beneficial to us having covered parking and what have you and so forth and I was delighted in in the conversations that I had including at a nice chat with Jennifer and there's excitement about the move and I think it's great I compliment her on the idea of people having six weeks with books out you know so it would says we have to time this well so that we have a lot of people that have books out at that time to make the move easier and I said well well that was reported in the other papers yep mm-hmm yep you know go ahead I agree with everything both of you just said one specific thing Jennifer Coakman has pressed me to advocate for is if the board of library library board could come out with either a letter to the other paper or other formal statement of support yeah I think they'd be very meaningful to a lot of community members I know they're volunteers and they don't have a lot of time but I just know that would go a long way to this way the librarian can help write it for them I mean it can be from both the librarian and the board yeah I'll talk to Jennifer about it and Bonnie I'm referring to Jennifer Coakman just to be clear yeah I'll talk to our Jennifer our Jennifer yes I did mean our I did mean our Jennifer yeah librarian Murray I think all of those things are good I mean maybe Coralie can put something when does the next sobo come out that's not for a couple of months or so right yeah yeah but we certainly could have something in there I will say I thought I thought the article that appeared in the in the other paper was was very comprehensive and the the great thing that the council did that night is you took both actions so you are proving the lease for the transition if you've done that and then came back three weeks later and or two two meetings later and then done the purses and sale agreement I think that were really confused people but as it was reported both it both and so you see transition and permanent and we know where we're going well I think there's another item to when we talk about the finances and the hit on the the school budget it's only half a year so they are going to get of the $62,000 that they normally get they will get $35,000 well they didn't the math on that time yeah I think it's 36,000 that they don't get that they don't get okay so it's not a $62,000 hit right then the other sort of I don't know balancing act that the city hasn't complained about but is enough was another cut to our budget is apparently the after-school programs have been displaced I mean the city run ones have been displaced by the ones the schools have organized which is wonderful it's their space and they've created these yet the parks and and rec department had anticipated and budgeted and so they've lost about $32,000 I think it is in income expected income now we haven't gone to the press and complained about it I'm not complaining about it now I'm just trying to sort of balance the the dollar figures that people lob out for perhaps other reasons and just sort of so the facts are that it will not be a $62,000 hit for the school it will be the following year it will be the whole thing but they will have that space and you know I would hope that maybe we can encourage and maybe it are steering me a committee meeting we can have the dialogue so you know what are your plans for the space they could make it a really positive thing like we're really excited about this space this is what we're going to do we never could do this before so I mean I think we need to work closely with the school department and the library board and certainly the community in terms of the decisions we make and you know I think it's always hard I mean as Tim said change is difficult and sometimes you haven't been paying attention or you haven't heard about or you haven't connected some of the dots and it is like how did this happen I mean sort of the same people like what's this tiff business we clearly need to reeducate the public all over again about what tiff financing is because we did it once and they passed the first bond and said yeah go forward with it now we're gonna have another one and you know you read the neighborhood watch and it's like how does you know this is my tax dollar we're gonna be bonding for this and bonding for that and my taxes are gonna go up and you know and what's the impact on this education funding and you know they just sort of lob out the questions even though we had answered them once well I think we even saw that at our last meeting really need it was lengthy and and I think there was a change of attitude by a particular attendee there I think his attitude was very different when we came to the end of the meeting maybe he was just glad to go home but I think it was though I will say I have had several people say and a recreational facility right and they've they've kept inquiring about that and I said just allow us to get through these things we haven't taken that off the off view reality we have almost all the land we need for the rec department what's holding that up is something that you know we need to do a small trade trade of land with the school department and if we can work through that then there is space for a rec department I believe that will happen I think that will too so yes do you have some thoughts come up to the mic and I know you were concerned and articulated that the public needs to have more input so can you think do you like Tim's idea of an open house what what could we do to you know generate some you were smiling weren't you at quarter of 12 I was still here I know I was still here Barbara service South Burlington resident I live in Summer Woods off Patchin Road my biggest concern was that this was not transparent and my experience having sat through a lot of your meetings that is that this council is pretty transparent and you don't spring things on the city what I think I heard at that meeting very late at night was that the library trustees were told that they were not supposed to talk about this I think that was a huge mistake and it meant that the word didn't get out and they are some of the library's biggest advocates and they could have done a lot I think the city council took the brunt of the the sort of negative stuff and I think if the King as Tim said communication communication communication I think if it had been different and my biggest concern is as we get as you were alluding to as we look at the Tiff and we look at the city center that we want to make sure that we are as transparent as possible so that that continues forward so my real my biggest issue was that it was not my previous experience of this council and that the way this the way the city works in terms of information and all of that and my guess is that that I may represent because you talked about bikes and bites and places like that and as I talked to people I think my my one suggestion would be besides I think open houses a good idea is there a way that you can do something about parking around the holidays can you set aside three spaces that are reasonably close for the people who have mobility issues because there are not a lot there are some but the the accessible spaces are not necessarily right near that entrance and so is there a way there there are a couple but there may not there they're sort of spread around by all of the entrances so could you maybe create a couple of extra ones at least at the holidays so that people who have mobility issues are more assured that they're going to be able to get a parking place well we certainly may I mean that's a conversation I guess with the mall but and we can certainly just but but but I but I do think Barbara we could have in printed form whether it's an ad in the other paper or it's in the next so boo issue but really have some graphics that show here's the library here's the door and here are the six you know handicapped parking areas undercover here are the ones they're a little further away but and so people get a sense of how far they're going to walk because I mean here they can drive in and they see the door right they know how far they although when when school is in session there's their parking challenges on some days doesn't bother me I walk but I'm concerned about bad weather and I'm also concerned about you know moms with kids trying to get in there and they've got two in tow and it's snowing and yeah and it's holiday time so I don't exactly know but I think if you could address that as you're looking at the open house and maybe do the open house early enough that none of that holiday stuff is started yet so that people would be able to get there pretty easily so just a thought I just in terms of it's really the communication piece that okay but parking clearly is one item for communication that would be important to really so people graphically see it because they may not I mean some people don't even shop at the mall you know so they have no idea how close it is or how far I only know it's there because that's where I walk when the weather is bad so if it's warm if it's summer warm I will I will walk in the mall but then I'll walk in the parking garage because it's pouring rain and I don't want to be outside so I just find a covered place where I can walk it is nice yeah where we should have a bike invite some day they go right centurion racist going up and around down yeah we we kick that beehive over once already this year can I respond to Barbara's point about yes I only say this in a general sense not about not necessarily about this episode to speak is related to the library but there's a there there is a challenge when you are negotiating a real estate deal trying to do what as best you can to be open and informative of the public and still negotiate the best deal for the public with the owner of the property in a competitive environment there are other in this particular case there were others who wanted that space and so I I'm just kind of wondering out where as we go forward with City Center there will be times when this issue is going to come up again about holy mackerel you guys negotiated a deal for a recreation and and nobody knew about it and so it's just it is it is a as and I think you're right about this council has dedicated itself to transparency and being open the reason there's an exemption in the open meeting law for real estate transactions is because it's recognized as something a little different could being said but could there have been a discussion over here before before you got it down to your last two or three choices that just sort of said we're going to begin to look for an alter we're here are the challenges in the library so instead of saying we're looking for another space saying here are the challenges in the library the school needs it we need we want to make sure that it's accessible we want to make sure that we cover all the things for our new library but this is really becoming a big challenge over here so that might have opened a conversation that wouldn't have said I'm over here doing this that I can't talk about but it would at least let people know that there are challenges around the library around around you can't use the little meeting room because the high school gets first dibs on it and if the library wants to do a program there but the high school needs it that doesn't happen that's doing that in a way that it doesn't point a negative finger at anybody it just talks about the challenge of space I take responsibility for that that that issue then I suppose I've been I I started looking for alternative space for the library four years ago when I came in to this job and it's kind of been in fits and starts and all but it's always been there you know it's always been a discussion I've had with the with the library board I think you know occasionally we talk about it here and so over the years when I finally found something that actually worked but I didn't I didn't think about going to the public with an explanation hey I can't talk to you about where we're going necessarily but here's the reasons why because I wanted that I wanted to get the deal done yes so we could be in before the holidays and and and get the deal done so that we had the space and so but but I take responsibility for that well I think the library needs to take a little responsibility too and and potentially they may I mean it seems to me they could have said you know we are negotiating a new space we're serious about finding a new space and the city manager is negotiating one right now we can't tell you where but we're going to be moving we hope and we've been working on this I mean I think there was a lot of communication that I think you know you're involved in the issue and you've been talking about it for ten years so of course everyone knows that the library wants to move and we you know have a fundraiser and we're trying to raise money for that it's a it's a shared goal of the city council and I think the majority of the public and so you can't always you know identify always the best way to be as open as possible but maybe in the future thinking about the other things and that's that's really you just say I can't tell you who with whom you were were negotiating or and that gets people going too but but no but there could have been there could have been some public more specific we could have detailed but a little bit of communication we could have had a counselor's corner or the library could have put a letter to the editor saying these are the issues about you know it's like but again I mean some of it doesn't sound all that good for the high school but as we look so you have to be careful about that as well I mean it I mean from where I sit it looks like hmm you know they're right so we were not up to standards and you know health inspection quality that's the problem but to Kevin's remark happened about it about future that there's going to be more deals so real estate transactions I think we should think about our communication strategy so that when we pass these actions that we have thought through the rationale so we can communicate at the same at the same time as it becomes public so you know that's another that's another piece I hadn't thought about but maybe there is a I don't know a counselor's corner or part of this library thing or somewhere where you explain what you just said so that people understand you were trying to get the best deal for the city and you were also trying to negotiate in good faith but that you it's protected by open meeting and these are the reasons that and so that could be another especially as we move forward with all the things you all are going to have to worry about anyway thank you for listening well thank you for sharing your concerns I think they're important and I appreciate that because we hire best and we don't always that we do okay is there are there is there any other business okay we possibly can go into executive session for the appointments we want to wait till Megan's here so I don't have all of my pages with the other folks on the notes on those no no I mean I made notes on who on the different oh you didn't bring your paperwork for their past yeah make it express no I you know I she was sick I didn't call her and say you know you think that she wants a voice other some that we have just the well I think there's the planning commission has for these are like just I mean some of them we need everybody who expressed an interest and maybe it makes sense if you wanted to wait with Megan to weigh in on the ones that there's competitive openings for I think there's some you have the exact number of openings that we just right just say a point because we have a little like machine so so how about if we go into executive session or whatever it's not executive session it's yeah and get through all the appointments that are not you know competitive I guess less competitive or there's no controversy agree on those and then wait till we have a full it's not mandated that we go into executive session do we feel comfortable with just placing all of the names that fit the number of opening spots yeah I don't have a problem with that more transparent counterbalance plan you just want to what do we need to hold back on want to just march through them okay why don't we just mark affordable housing there are two openings we had two people indicate no Lindsay Bryce there was Todd Rawlings and Lindsay Bryce she's the one that really wanted the natural resources committee I don't know if she wants both yeah let's see a natural resources we need three people and we have two people David Crawford and Lindsay voice Bryce and Laura though tonight she seemed to express a genuine second-place interest and that would be great balance up like I'm also at Laura Williams so we'd like to have David Crawford to he'd be the third yeah he's on it now what this is natural resources there's three openings and we have three people Laura Williams Lindsay Bryce and David Crawford you want to do it I was gonna ask the same thing that's our cemetery keepers of the cemetery I didn't even know we had someone why didn't I know do they have to know it or something or no they it's not so much maintaining them we do the but it's it's the sale of plots it's the record keeping of plots who's planted where so to speak and those sorts of things we have two cemeteries one by the airport and one on Shelburner over and so under under charter we're supposed to okay sexton all right we'll have to drum up some interest but can we agree on those three people for natural resources okay let's go back up to affordable housing then we have two slots and we have two interested did Lindsay really want Lindsay we're gonna put on the other so what that's right Todd so we'll just appoint Todd for the time being city charter bypassing bike and pet oh I'm sorry excuse me a bike and head we in a session executive no no we don't have to be for this okay so bike and pet has four openings we have Larry was holding me yeah what is holding Roy was unable to participate in the interview he had a bike accident terribly and he's in the hospital for another two weeks yeah and he wanted to express his interest in continuing to serve but he was unable to and so we wanted to make sure that he was still I would hate to take him off even though he's been hurt you know two three four five they need four okay so Laura Williams seemed okay with natural resources yeah we yeah we just got her for natural resources we already okay that got her strong biker lives on meadow road right likes to global foundries that's right yeah you want to hold on the competitive ones why don't we hold on that okay and and follow up with Roy yep City Charter David Crawford give them three committees he's retired David Crawford we just put him on one and he's also going to be the Wanooski Valley Park District I'm not a hundred percent sure he needs to be on the Charter Committee to but we do need to and we have we only have one we have one but he is retired he loves giving us time who's the other one the Charter Committee hasn't met in four years unless you guys anticipate the need to go back and amend our charter can't we appoint at the time yeah can we do emergency awareness for that why don't we skip that the DRB we need to we had two applicants Mark and Bear and David Parsons so let's go with them energy committee we need four and we had four people express interests right little red expert pointed me you actually appointed them we already appointed three of them a couple weeks ago yeah yeah yeah because I think they needed they were working on something and they were in the talk to you and yeah so we just need to add before you gulf and bean yep buying gulf and buying so let's do so do you so we okay with Drew yep yeah he's okay okay housing trust fund we just need one and there was a nobody nobody no all right library board they need six with a second choice one two three four five six and then Penelope has a second she said she'd do both public art were you know that's pretty small so let's give her both well aren't there others that want public art so well we need all of them oh oh I'm sorry see we have let's definitely put her on the library board and then the library public art we need three people and we have one two three interested so let's put them all on that's Patricia Stratman Jennifer Cokman returning and penny so can we put all of those on the art committee yeah we need three yep yeah back up to pension advisory oh yeah I'm sorry I keep skipping these things yep let's go with Spence yeah yeah and should hold off I think we should hold off there's five I said we I'd point Jessica Luisos in public session but I think the rest yeah close contenders oh I have no problem with that I think that's good idea well we can certainly yeah she's not going to be kicked off it'll just be finding one other from the four members although Lindsey we already gave her natural resources oh and that she her ex probably should be off because didn't she say I think thinking about I'd rather be on natural resources and planning so it's really just selecting one person between Barry young Michael Mitag and Jacob West so you strike Lindsey yeah because we put her on natural resources so you wait on that with Jessica yeah we're going with Jessica we'll hold off on the others recreation parks we need four and we have four people so let's I thought they all sounded great we have no sections and the Winooski Valley Park Commission go for it David if I can be if it's not I'd love to be on the side if I can you just try to find a cheap plot I mean these plots are inexpensive down by Olive Garden that's where I want to go they're like what 200 bucks I think it's not bad I would love to apply if I can be I'm surprised you don't want to be at the airport to be honest with you you would get no rest it's so noisy we have Eldridge we have all of garden just the two and what's that called one on children road it's not all of garden it's something else that cemetery too there right yeah with that we're sure that where you want to be buried is a pet patching road I'm like to be a husky the sexton actually have a patching road I think of the section look actually does do some work it's not a ceremonial thing yeah do you want to let us find out a little bit more about the description what is that pay and all you got to do is go out there with a steel rod yeah yeah poke around see where there isn't a casket all right so look in the sex so let's take a formal vote on all of these people we do when you ski valley park district yes that was David okay so a motion to accept all the people we've identified on favor how about different terms there's four-year terms three-year terms get the committee's figure now well let's see what do we got we got you have three three years and one one year on the parks and rec and you've got Keelang rock Glen Spurl Glenn's previously sir well you know the press okay I was looking at energy sorry oh yeah so Glenn has previously served and so as as Becca right how you start I would say the energy I would do the first three that we already appointed to the three-year term and then the newest person on there to the one year through okay because we have three that are wanting for re-up but David oh I wonder if the little red dots underneath oh that meant already appointed I didn't know if that meant for the one-year term oh no three-year terms we appointed them for three-year terms so we'll put Drew as a one-year term maybe she isn't on there now but we already appointed so DRB mark or good question do we know what Mark and David were on I don't I don't think it mattered to either of them because I think we asked and everyone said oh whatever you want yeah it was like a fairness of chance they didn't care let's let's let's lock in mark for the four okay and David for the three okay all right I'm going up to affordable housing make Todd the two-year were we also going to have Lindsay Bryce serve on two committees or not probably not because she's young yeah just so we have a an opening for affordable for a one year term okay let's see who else do we have what did we do for the library board we have six seven we have seven yeah three two two yeah so Bonnie Bonnie I would do three Bonnie three how about Pat Laduke is three yeah oh yeah good I work for us and Mark is an incumbent oh so make him a three okay yeah two twos and two ones why don't we make Penny a one since she's on the other committee yeah way over to the right second to the right notes on Lee carry your stasis make her one and then the other we have too many oh we have another one-year term and then two yeah then two twos let's make Stacy Papa two okay she was coming off wasn't she a library you want a board in in Essex or something Lee Freeman is a one then yes if a man and Lee Freeman is two did I get that one or what Harry is Harry is one and Lee Freeman is two okay got it natural resources they're all three-year terms okay that's easy public art we got a three-year term a two-year term in a one-year term yeah two threes and a one well let's make Penny a three since we just gave her one in the library and Jennifer Cokman make her a three oh she's on she's on another one why don't we make her a one-year term are we in public art? Jennifer Cokman and three and Jennifer is a one yeah she's on the art thing was her first choice right right no library board for Penny she wanted a library board I'm sorry David Crawford did I miss the number of years on Rexon Park we haven't done that yet we haven't done natural resources either well they're all threes remember oh they're all threes okay yeah I'm sorry right so unless we made Jessica three-year right on that and on planning right oh they're both three-year terms so it doesn't matter well it's two three oh wait yeah no they're two people for three-year terms yeah yeah so and so then we need parts in rec or wrecking parts two threes and I would the woman that came in tonight that's new Linda Chisholm uh-huh what if we gave her the one-year term okay I don't see if she likes it and we give the other three the three years okay the Langrock is a plan obviously and Rebecca Rebecca you know I think Glenn said he would I think Glenn was talking about a one-year term I thought it was just he didn't want to chair yeah why don't we give him a one there a really long time he does travel a lot he's making come back next year anyway and he would get and and make Linda a three she's just seems so interested in sir yeah I thought his was just I could be one I thought it was just that he was well I think it's that but he's also been maybe it is maybe only once a year I'm writing in Tom chin in for sexton here good how many years that term you have to bring the goats 10 you have to bring the goats okay so we'll anticipate the Planning Commission decision on the fault in the next meeting so is that so we've got just so I'm sure about this planning commission is on hold like a pet like and pet is on hold right still have an opening on housing and housing trust fund and we skip the city charter right yeah okay so okay good excellent okay we will start notifying people the affordable housing committee actually meets tomorrow and Sandy asked that we reach out to your appointees and let them know about the meeting so if I can get to them we'll try I would consider a motion to adjourn the moved second second all in favor I can't tell you how happy I am good job yeah no every hold on no I think everything's signed tonight good night whoa yeah no we as a category five racing towards the Puerto Rico the Virgin Islands nice that's all we need is another Jesus and I bless those people oh my god all right Bob where are you maybe maybe I'm all mixed up I think I mixed up tomorrow is Tuesday and no it's not I'm sorry so I am still waiting Thursday is potentially the mental health update with the manager this will be a let's take the let's take the proposal part and put it back together okay that's it 8 o'clock yeah and it's