 Welcome everybody to the third Linux user group. So we're going to talk, like I said earlier before everybody joined, we're going to talk a little bit about apps today, but I don't really have a plan. We'll just kind of wing it as we did the last two times, and then we'll talk a little bit towards the end about a topic for next time that we can kind of get together on. Which is going to be next or less? It really is not. See, it really, really is not. I'm in the midst of my long-term review of Nix, and I don't want to talk about it outside of that because I don't want to spoil it. Okay. So basically, you can sum up your review. It's not a disco, not for everyone, move on. Yes. Okay. So what I thought we could do is starting to start off, go around and say, what's your favorite open-source app? Okay. Well, we'll start with, I'm going to call you JaJunk. Is that how you pronounce your username? JaJunk. JaJunk. JaJunk, that's fine. I don't think I have a favorite one. Honestly. When you use the most? Well, the one I'm using the most right now is Geary, my email client just because I absolutely hate everything, and I want an email client that is just an email client. I just want to read my email. I don't want to do anything else with it. I don't need it to be Thunderbird and Task Manager and RSS feed reader and all that other stuff. I just wanted to read my email. That's it. Email client. Good. Yeah. Email client. That's all it does. That's what I'm working on. I know it's not fancy for everybody, but that's cool, but that's what I'm using. You guys find that email clients on Linux are all kind of terrible, almost universally. They're all terrible. Thunderbirds get extremely many options out there. Destruction. Destructor on. Destructor Tron. Destructor Tron. I'm just going to call you the next guy because you got .nix there. What did you say? I'm sorry. I was saying that Thunderbirds getting better, like it's going to get exchange support soon. So, you know, the core process is going to go, oh, yay, we can use this now. Like, it's getting now. I see Thunderbird getting the UI designs got better. It's the more. 20 years late. See, I hate the new redesign. I absolutely despise it. So, they made the other way around. They made this big deal about how awesome the redesign was going to be and then it came out. To me, it looked exactly the same as it did before the update, except for they put this gigantic honking search bar at the top, which you can't get rid of. Now, you can't get rid of it now, but when it first came out, you couldn't get rid of it. And it was like all this white space around, like they put the gigantic honking padding right along the side of the of the thing so they could center it. It's like, first off, just get rid of all the padding and I mean, not all of it, but some of it and spread it all the way along. But it's horrible. I guess I got super confused because I installed it and I was like, what did I do wrong? Like, I got the wrong version. Like I couldn't really tell because I don't use it all the time. You know, it has been a long time since they use it. So I did the same exact thing. I was like, man, what did I get the wrong version or something? Like they had to go look and make sure. Well, they touted a redesigned like account setup, but it looks exactly the same as it did before. They touted a redesigned calendar. It looks exactly the same as it did before. Now, they are redoing like the the mess. If you have a vertical message thread or, you know, like a message, you know, feed or whatever, they're redoing that. So it looks kind of more like what Mail Spring does. And that looked cool, but I don't trust them anymore because they showed all these awesome pictures when they were touting the redesign of all this stuff that was going to happen. And it never happened. It just looks exactly the same, but with a search bar at the top. I mean, maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm just wrong. Or maybe I'm still on an old version for all I know. That'd be hilarious. No, I agree with that. It just was really bad. I use Thunderbird because it's like the only one that will work well across different graphic stacks. Mail Spring is probably my favorite. But if you don't use GNOME, it doesn't look good. Just you just use the mail client in Vivaldi and call it a day. No, I use that. It's horrible. He will never do that because it's because it's a browser. It's a browser. It's not anything else. Then I might as well just use the web mail that Zoho comes with, which is just a horrifying statement to make. To be honest, to be honest, I don't I don't use either. I just use I have an email at Vivaldi.net because they offer an email, a web mail. In case you didn't know that I use it in the sidebar. That's it. Oh, it's like a web panel. Yeah, a web panel. I use it in the web panel. That's it. If the email is too long to read, which is rare, which is rare for me. The last the last email that I received really received from someone was for a what do you call it, a a sponsor spot? I don't know. They contacted me after a year of not doing YouTube. But anyway, they they contacted me like two weeks ago. They wanted me to advertise their sex store. So awesome. My my best email that I got for that was KFC deodorant. I was like, yeah, that's the best thing ever. Awesome. All right. I'm going to again, mispronounce a user name Sennac. You're an of course. What's your favorite app? Oh, I don't really think I have them. I'm just what's the one you use? I mean, you guys, you're like, oh, I got it. I guess all my favorite apps right now, OK, which one doesn't fail? The bug checks. OK. Yeah. All right. Fine. I will go then and I will say my favorite one at the moment. I'm going to sound like Steve here for a second. It's Vivaldi, actually. It's my favorite app. It's not open source, though. So I suppose I should talk. I asked for my favorite open source thing. So I actually have been getting back into Zemwiki, which is a like a note taking application. And I have been searching for a good note taking application forever. Like I try to use Joplin, use Joplin. No, that sucks. It's slow as shit. Yeah, if I want to, if I by the time Joplin launches, I've forgotten what note I want to take. OK. So true. It's just slow. It's too slow for me. It doesn't help if you snap either. No, it makes it worse. Wait, wait, way worse. Oh, wait. Who said wait? That's the way I. The little green bar around the thing when some when somebody talks is just not noticeable enough for me. And that's why I was asked who's talking. All right, anyway, so my Zemwiki probably is my favorite moment because I've been getting back into it. It's my only downside to it is that once you get into it and you start putting your notes inside of it, it's really hard to take your notes out and put them somewhere else. If you were to go to a different app because they're not stored in a traditional format and because they don't use traditional markdown, you can't even like transform them into something different, like regular markdown, because they for whatever reason they chose not to use like in Markdown, you use hashtags for headings, right? In Zemwiki, you use equal signs for whatever reason. I don't know why it's silly, but that's the way you do it. And there are a few other things like you plus and and colon create links instead of the normal way of creating links. And I understand why they did that because they're creating a wiki piece of wiki software. But some of those things just make it non-transferable over to, you know, something different if I were to leave. I use here. Here's the here's the funny thing, though, is that I forgot how to use it kind of. And their documentation isn't, you know, the greatest. They actually don't talk about some of the features that it has. And so I went back the very first video that I ever made that wasn't a podcast was about Zemwiki. I watched that thing. Oh, my God, that was so bad. I think it was just an absolute horrendous mess of Oz and like five second silences between the next word because I didn't know what I was trying to say. It was real really, really bad. So that left me. I guess I actually still have it open because I want to see if there's anything else in there that I that I need to know. But that video was astonishing. But also I looked at it and I was using I3 at that time. That was a nice little thing I had going on there. Also, don't you don't you miss themes because of me? Darth Vader, sorry. Yeah, because of Darth Vader. Don't you miss themes? I do. But I actually like I'm on IU, AYU right now. It's not bad. It's not Grubbox, but it's not bad. So we're I kind of ramble on the front. So W what you all you show up is is W on the disc on the discord. So what's your favorite? Save us until it's your favorite open source app. And if you if you say, oh, I don't really have one, I'm going to ban you. No, no, I kind of do. All right, because I used to be a big user of Evernote back in the day, especially when I got out of college and what not. I did one note and then I did Evernote. Evernote decided to screw me over and then stop supporting Lennox, which was lovely. So I ended up switching to notes note, which operates kind of like Evernote did, but it's all open source. They do have a paid tier, which I do pay for, but it's not horrible. I've used notes and what not before. It's a it's a pretty good advocate. I like that it has mobile applications. That's the thing that I miss most of us in wiki is that I want to be able to have a mobile app, too. So I'm still good for it. I'm still on Google keep. I hate that thing with a passion, but like I have 15 years of notes in there and getting them out is impossible. It's just impossible. That's always my problem. Go ahead. That's always my problem with the note apps is that you're talking earlier, but you can't transfer it. I have a ton of work stuff from like 10 years ago or something like that that's in one note. So I can't I mean, it's crazy how much stuff is in there. So I can't get rid of it, but I can't it's an archive for me now because I don't use it every day. I've used it in years, but that I use obsidian right now, which I know it's not open source. I don't think now, but that'll skin. That's a good one. I think it's little skin I have obsidian installed and every time I make a notes application, I get 10 to 15 comments saying, oh, why don't you try obsidian out? And I'm like, yeah, because it's too confusing. Like like they have this weird vault system where all of your notes live in a vault and I don't get it. Right. A vault is just a folder. It's not like directory. Like it's not anything special. They just call it a vault. Just scares me calling it a vault. Like if you if something in a vault, that thing's never coming out. The reason the reason that the reason I call it a vault is that when you set up your like when you install it and then you say, hey, open a vault or open a folder as a vault and so just create a folder is all of your plugins and all your other bullshit that makes it obsidian lives in that vault. It doesn't live somewhere else in your machine. It lives in that vault. So for me, because I don't want to pay for anything, my vault is this is the folder. And then I push that to get lab. So if I'm on another machine, that's how I get around transferring from different machines and keep all my notes as I just I do a get pull. And now I have all my plugins and all my settings and all that other stuff. That's it. And I don't for obsidian, I don't use folders and all that other stuff in there. I just use a link to different pages and use the graphs and all that other stuff. It's it's the simplest thing that I can think once you use it a little bit. It's not hard to edit and mark down and you can open up your files. You can open them up in VS code or Kate or something like that. The editor thing, you just don't get the plugins. So it's easy to transfer a vault. A vault implies some type of security measure, right? Like I know it's very or or a lock or something like that. And it's not just it's not just a place for storage, right? They may as well just call it like a storage room as opposed to a vault. But the thing that I like, the thing that I like about obsidian is not that it uses markdown and not that I use the feature either. But just the thing that I like about it is that you can actually like link between documents just to reference back and forth or like across multiple documents or notes, right? Yep. Yep. That's the cool thing that I like about that, which you don't really get in any other application. But for me, for no takeout, I just use NB. It's really easy to solve in one place. It automatically syncs to a private repo for me so I can access my notes no matter what system I'm on. Yeah. I just type them all in markdown and Neil Vim or Vim is my editor. So, you know, it's just plain text markdown. So yeah, this is quick and easy. I just take notes like a manning easy. Okay. Let's just make an e-maxion. You're done with it. Okay. We want to talk to ourselves. I already have an operating system. Yeah, I was waiting for that. I don't need any other one. Yeah. So, Steve, you look like you're next. I'm skipping over the people who are muted, by the way. If you want to chat, you can turn your microphone on. So, Steve, you got yourself a favorite app that you're using currently? Yeah. I got a favorite app, is Lapid. Say the name again? Lapid. What is that? Zero Linux post, Arch post installed toolkit. All right. No, no, no. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Steve, you went full on Linux open source developer with that name. That's horrible. It shortened to Lapid, but no, that's not my favorite app. My favorite app, and I'll be doing my own horn here, but it's a Joplin. It's self-hosted Joplin. Because self-hosted Joplin is pretty quick because it doesn't have to deal with a third-party server out there. It just connects to the Raspberry Pi, the server on the Raspberry Pi, which I have locally. It instantly opens. What I love about it is, since you were talking about Note app, it really uses pure markdown. It shows you the source code on the left, and it shows you the, I was gonna look on the right. It automatically syncs. I access it on my Android, on my iPhone, on my iPad. It's been a life-saver. It's specifically right now because I'm working on Lapid. I'm gonna laugh every time you say it, dude. That is a great thing. I like it. It's funny, it puts a smile on people's faces because it's funny, but because of Lapid and the NixOS right now, I'm taking a lot of notes. Specifically today, I talked to Zany to help me with this Vivaldi YouTube issue. He was like, I don't know, buddy. I can't help you. So I had to do a lot of research and take notes and put them in Joplin. So yeah, it's been a life-saver, and I've been using it for the past few months all the time because I keep reinstalling the system countless times and I don't wanna lose my notes. So yeah, it's all saved on my Raspberry Pi along with the network. I've already forgotten how it's pronounced, it's named Destructotron. Yes, Destructotron, yes. Yeah, sorry, I got it right. Okay, yeah, yeah. So my favourite one, this is completely down to my use case and it's really the only reason why I even touch Emacs, to be honest with you, because I don't need all the features of Emacs for this, but it's Emacspeak. Not many people know because I really need to update this and then put this in roll call, but I'm a blind Linux user and graphical screen readers and terminals don't like each other. They will work, Orca does have terminal support, but Emacs, if you use Emacspeak, which is an extension of Emacs, that allows Emacs to talk to you and use eSpeak and other speech servers, the support for text and the command line is really good. If you go into an average terminal with Orca and you start typing a command that takes ages to run that has loads of output, like I don't know, Nixer for read bold switch and it just starts building everything, you've got to press the control to shut Orca up. There's the next thing. And you know that it's building, but you also want to know the progress of it. You want to know when it's done. But the Emacs shell with Emacspeak, what this does is if a lot of output comes in at once, it'll actually interrupt the speech and it'll start saying the next lot of output and then if more comes in it interrupts it again. It just keeps doing that until you know that it's done. That's the reason why you use Emacs and why it's been a lifesaver in the TUI, to be honest with you and the command line. I'm astonished that of all the apps on Linux that Emacs seems to be the most accessible, it's just text. It's just text, isn't it? It's just text and text buffers. And if you have an extension in there that speaks the text to you and allows you to do all the Emacs editing stuff, you couldn't just do it. Hell, I use Telegram for Emacs because it's the only good option on Linux. I use Telega because it's the only good option. Well clients are a lot of all rubbish. So again, it's just a little text in an Emacs buffer like the shell. The shell, like you go into a graphical terminal, you try copying and pasting some text with Orca. You can't do it really, well you can as of like Orca 45, but now, but before then, you just couldn't do it. You had to control Alt A the entire terminal, which you don't want to do most of the time. You've got to copy that, paste it somewhere, get the output of the command that's just what you want, copy that, paste that somewhere else. It was kind of annoying. So Emacs shell, it doesn't send any keystrokes to the actual terminal. So you can use Emacs editing commands on the output. So you can just go and copy and paste and cut and do all this good stuff with the shell text. That's amazing. That's something which brings the argument where that Brody brought up in one of his videos a while ago. It's all about how little accessibility features Linux has compared to other operating systems like Apple has the most. It's number one for accessibility. I will say it will not use Android because of it. Android, I've heard horror stories of phones crashing. You can't update the phone or cut back dyes after an update. It's like, I don't want to use that. I want something that's stable. And if we're talking about Linux tools and accessibility, it's mostly there. It's just a few things need work. GTK 4, for example, GTK 3, just fine. GTK 4, especially on Wayland, they kind of messed it up. You can't flat review anymore. So you can't see text that you can't tab and shift tab to. So labels, for example, you can tab and shift tab to and it will read the labels. But some text, like update progress for GNOME software in Fedora, for example, you can't see the progress because you can't flat review because the tool kit's not giving all kind of shortcuts it needs. So it's kind of annoying because GTK 3, QT 5 and 6, Wayland backends just do the thing. And I get it, they want to be secure about it. And the tool kit not, you know, and QT showcase not being grabbed at all and stuff. But it's been this way for three, four years now. Like I remember when GTK 4 first came out, it was horrible. You could barely use it. Yeah, they just got, I agree. They just recently got that a million dollars or whatever from someone and they said that they were going to put most of that to accessibility GNOME, GNOME. So, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Okay, go to issue 458. I have a bit of a GTK 4 rant, shall we say. Not hugely, but like the way that I think it should be implemented to fix the orca issues with text navigation in GTK 4 because the way it works is the orca listens for like an arrow key press or home and end or control home and end to decide what to announce when the cursor moves. GTK 4 giving orca the keyboard events. So any text editing in a GTK 4 text box just doesn't work. So I said, okay, why not instead of GTK 3 just giving orca the entire keyboard, just ask orca, hey, what bindings are you using? And then just return them and then orca goes, oh, these are the bindings that I'm using. And then things like flat view work in GTK 4 because the grabs are there, but also it should say, right, I'm also gonna give you the arrow keys and other things. But my thing was why aren't we doing this because what happens if someone wants to go and use KDE, XFCE, WL roots, and there's this thing on GNOME only that allows orca to circumvent this and do global shortcuts and things like that. They're gonna go on KDE, they're gonna go on XFCE or whatever. I'm strictly talking Wayland here because XOR it works just fine. XFCE when the session comes out in a few years. Let's say they go onto that and then they try and edit text or do flat review. They're gonna find the flat review is just full on its face because now the thing that GNOME isn't is using doesn't work in anything else because it's a GNOME specific thing. And if that does happen, it's then left to, oh, KDE's got to do something. Now, WL roots must do something different. Cosmic might do something different. XFCE will do something different or base it off of what WL roots gonna do. And that's even if they start doing it. I know KDE is going to because there are a lot more focused on it these days. But these smaller things like WL roots and Cosmic, they might do something, but some of the things, they're just not gonna do it. Well, and that's the problem with Wayland is that everybody's doing their own things. Like the stuff that KDE is doing is one way of doing things. That's the GNOME is doing their things the only way we've got WL roots. And that's not even good for just them. It's even the people who are basing their window managers on WL roots. You got Hyperland, they're doing their own things. Suited their own things. River's doing their own things. It's an amalgamation of nonsense at this point. And it's one of my arguments against Wayland even though I'm currently using it. Everything is basically every developer for themselves and there's no standards whatsoever. I mean, WL root seems to be the thing that a lot of people coalesce around, but they also, so there's this idea because from a lot of the stuff you're talking about there, it's all about interactability between different applications. And the thing about Wayland is that it's supposed to stop that things, it's supposed to be more secure, right? So like one of the things that was missing in Wayland compositors for a long time was global keybindings. Because you couldn't, when you didn't have OBS in focus, it couldn't register that there was a keybinding that was supposed to affect it. So the idea behind portals is to solve that problem. But- Is it global shortcuts portal? Well, ID. Plus, everyone's doing their own portal. So you have a KDE portal, you have a GNOME portal, you have a Hyperland portal, you have a WL root portal. And while that makes sense in some cases, it feels like what they should have done instead was to make portals for individual use cases, like a global shortcuts, global keybinding portal, all these things would work together. It's something they should be doing on a desktop or a free desktop individually. Yeah, it should have been something that was standardized across them. But, and I think that maybe that it will get there someday. But it's, everyone who's talking like, oh, Wayland is ready for everyone. No, no, no. I'm on it right now, I'm on it right now. Too many people, Jerry, you were saying something? I mean, it's ready if you use KDE or GNOME, but if you use something else, then not really. It's great for people who never switched to anything else. So if you just use KDE, it's fine. If you just use GNOME, it's fine. If you switch back and forth, or you expect to have the same applications work exactly the same way in both, you're gonna be out of luck. And if you expand out into window managers, you just know, right? Yeah, exactly when using window managers. Yeah, especially when you have a 10 series NVIDIA card. Yeah, my question is though, my question is, why would you switch back and forth? Why would you switch back and forth between like KDE for one session and GNOME for another? Don't try to do it all the time. Why don't you have a good reason for this? You know, I don't see any viable reason to swap around like that. I just don't. Normal people do not, you're right. Absolutely right. I, on the other hand, am not a normal person. Okay? We got that, we got that. And this brings me to a mini rant, a very tiny rant, is why when I tell people I use the ThinkWorks for me, and it is one thing and one thing only, regardless what it is. I tell the people, I'm using this because it works for me. It's the best thing for my use case. They keep trying to convince me to use what works for them. They just want to get you back into their club, I think. They want to go, Oh yeah, I got another Vim user. Whee! No, no. Got another Hyperland user. Got another whatever user. Yes, people like to suck from your use case. I'm using what works for me. I know my use, I'm the only one who knows my use case, I'm the only one who knows what works for me. Why are you trying to convince me to use something else? Why? Why? Why? Well, what do you gain? You gain notoriety or notoriety or that? I'm converting someone. Everyone has the things that they love, right? Everyone has the things that they enjoy. And they want to include everyone in their club. Well, because they see the thing that they use as the best thing. So if you're an ARCH user, you think that ARCH is the best thing since sliced bread. If you're a Nix user, you think that that thing is the best thing you've ever used in your entire life. You're never going to use anything different. And there's something about the way that Linux and open source has evolved over the course of the last 30 years. Where when you start using something and it works really well for you and you decide that you're a fan of that thing, there's something in the water that we all drink that basically says that we have to proselytize the things that we use because we think that they're so good that other people can't possibly think otherwise. And it's something that I think, there's a good portion of people who think that way. Obviously, we've all seen it. And it's not, we make fun of the ARCH guys because they're for the longest time where the law, the law allows us. Nix now, look at what we can think. We have people using Ubuntu that are like that or OpenSousa or Dabian. Yeah. Yeah. I'll answer it now, I can write this. There's no mentioning OpenSousa without the master here showing us the sticker. Hey, actually, I spent good money on the sticker. And if I can't, I mean, unfortunately, I can't use my microwave phone like this. Otherwise, you'd hear me breathing down at the whole damn time. Otherwise, this is exactly how I'd use them. Like just so that the sticker was always on screen. But otherwise, I had to put on it. So instead I had to be annoying and actually move the mic every time I want to show the sticker. I was, for me, I just generalize it. Oh, hold on a second. Fraggle then W, what did you say Fraggle? I just said, I just generalize it and tell everybody that Linux is always the answer. That's it. It doesn't matter how you implement it or anything like that, it's always the answer. Very reasonable, but you should use OpenSousa. W, what were you gonna say? Well, I was gonna say for you to get a separate camera, just to point at your OpenSousa sticker. It'd be like Zoom's like way in. Like those guys who have the cat cam or the dog cam on their stream, whatever's they're pointing at the cam, much pointing at the Sousa sticker. That's the best thing. I'm doing that. The funny thing is is I have two webcams hooked up all the time. I could do that. It's part of the contract, it's part of the contract. Get a sponsorship. I got a Sousa contract that you saw when you were coming over to OpenSousa. You was a, yeah, Junkie. If somebody was gonna sponsor, get sponsored by OpenSousa. It's definitely me. Junkie, you have something to say? I got two things. I don't know if they still say it, they probably still do, but like back in the day, they used to say that Linux was a cult. And I was always like, no, no, no, no, no. Linux is not a cult. It's a federation of cults. Just the way you're at it. Many tribes, many tribes. Many tribes. There's some reasonable people like myself who I'm like, I'm really glad that you found your tribe and you have a community of friends. Just like, don't throw stuff at me because I don't always use open source apps, which sometimes works out other times. And then in other news, I think this is the real account. Red Hat follows me on Blue Ski, which I don't know if that's a good thing or like that's a bad thing. I don't know. They just followed me, which is cool because like nobody follows me on any social media. Hey, I follow you on mass. Is that what you're talking about, man? But it's right. Well, yeah, you do. Just cause I got a message done yesterday, but Red Hat, I don't know if that's a, I'm gonna have to rethink how I'm presenting myself on the public. If Red Hat is your brand new follower. Yeah, I might have to delete this app. All right. Sorry, that was my two cents. All right. Fraggle, let's kind of return to what we were doing. You have a favorite app for us? Yeah, Blender. Easy. Hands down, Blender. Absolutely. I can create anything and everything I want. I can do my video editing. I can do everything except for like image editing, but I mean that's, I mean there's ankscape and creative for that, but. Can you, there's one thing you cannot do on Blender. What? Watch porn. Yes, you can. It has video playback. What do you mean? Absolutely you can't. Blender was for making porn. Oh, here we go. And it's Sivall. Thank you, Steve. That reminds me of someone at the blind school I went to. And now I'm demonetized. Thank you. I mean it was freaking, he was watching absolutely Blender's school laptop. I kid you not. Are you recording this, Matt? I am recording it, yeah. I was looking for the, where do you, where do you, yeah, you have to edit that part. Sorry. Where do you, where are you posting them? Because I went to look to show. It's on YouTube. It's on the main, it's on the main YouTube channel, yeah. Yeah. I thought I looked at, I was looking for the other day I couldn't find it, but that was a fun one. I can, I will pull, if you remind me, I'll send you the link. Thank you. But yeah, it's on them, it's on the main channel. I've been thinking about putting it on a second channel, like the looks on a secondary channel, just because they're really long, but I don't. I vote for that because I don't always, I'm not gonna be able to meet all of them and you guys are a good bunch of guys. So I'd like to, even if I can't show up to one, I'd like to watch it. Yeah, same. I encourage you. Yeah, like the late night lugs, the afternoon lugs for Matt, for me, it's beyond midnight. So those ones, I can't make it on those, so I watch them on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, it's something I'm thinking about. So, Braggle, I can attest to his love of Blender because he's helped the introductions for the podcast and the thing he's done those for me. Awesome. But every time I open up Blender, it's so confusing. I have no clue what's going on. It takes time to learn the interface, but I mean, if you're starting out with it or anything like that, just do that. Just watch tutorials or just learn about the interface first. Don't worry about creating anything to start. Just learn the interface. I want you to get the interface down, everything else falls into place. One of my favorite things I do is to watch time-lapse speed runs of people creating stuff in Blender. Those things are, you're a wizard, and those things are awesome. I did the same thing on 3D Studio Max back in the day. I learned it so well. I started giving classes. I had a total of three classes. I gave, sorry, a total of three lessons to three students, and then I fired myself. It's a special skill to teach people. Yeah, the first lesson was how to create a desk with drawers. Yeah, all right. Basically, so the other reason that Blender's my favorite is not just because of my uses for it or anything like that, it's that it's becoming an industry standard in a pretty big industry too, like 3D effects and stuff like that, MoGraph and a lot of things. 2D animation, 3D animation, it's massive and it's just gaining momentum and it's really opening the FOSS world to a lot more industries in a lot more ways. We need a lot of things like that in the next world. Yeah, yeah. OBS is a great example of that. Just look at OBS, that's a big industry standard for like broadcasts and stuff. You don't see anyone who streams without OBS installed. Not only that, I can give you a bigger example. Churches are using it today, TV stations are using it today, well, in my local area at least. They're using OBS, we're using OBS in church to broadcast Sunday Mass to the elderly, it's amazing. But have you guys, go ahead. Isn't OBS like the standard? I didn't even know there was no other stuff. Well, there's like X-split or something like that. Yeah, it's just great after time tag. Yeah, that's a different industry for me. So here's the thing though, guys, is that you notice the things that we talk about that had become standards out in the wider world outside of Linux and FOS are Blunder and OBS. And that's because there's standards here too. Whereas if we want more things like that, we'd have to have more standards. And unfortunately, the thing that the Linux community and open source community does not do well at all is standards. They don't believe in standards. Kaging formats. Look at how discussion. System D, like System D, Wayland, I mean, there's gonna be protest districts for people who don't want to use Wayland. You know, you name it, package formats is a good one, snaps versus flat packs. I mean, we have, we can't, this is why we can't have nice things is because nobody can agree on how to do things. And while that is one of the shining examples of why open source is so good, because you can take something and fork it and make it different or whatever, you can do that, that's fine, that's the way open source is meant to be. But it also means is that we don't have things that we all agree on. And if we can't agree on something that is a standard and is universally good here, there's very little chance of any of that stuff being able to be made a standard out in the wider Linux world. I think one of the reasons why OBS and Blunder have done so well is because there's nothing, there's nothing that can compete with OBS. Even when it was fairly new, it was still the best thing there, right? We didn't go out and create another open source thing that does what OBS does. Yes, FFMpeg was around, X, but it's a proprietary, so. I mean, about a decade ago, we had preps but that died on Windows at least. Then for live streaming, OBS always have been the go-to software in quotes and yeah. Well, that was what I was trying, when I was talking to you yesterday, Matt, that was what I was trying to point out about the blue ski thing. When I promised myself I wasn't gonna bring it up today because I guess people get mad about it because of the guy who sits on the board. But they approached, when they were putting their stuff together, they approached some of the Macedon people because they wanted to rebuild Twitter, but their number one goal was to federate it because I think their whole goal was they don't want Elon to ever happen again. So they wanted to do something to have a Twitter replacement and they knew that Macedon was already halfway there. So they approached Macedon first to see what they could do and what they did when they approached Macedon is like, hey, we have access and we have money and we have backing and we can bring more money and backing. How can we make this work? And Macedon basically told them go pound sand. Well, cause they don't take any VC money. They refuse to do it because when you take VC money, eventually those VCs are gonna want something in return. No, it's not a charity, right? Right, but they didn't go to Macedon and said, here, take our check. They went to Macedon and said, what can we do for activity pub? And that was the key. And then they had suggestions and they were trying to work with them. But the whole point is that they don't take VC money and they didn't want to be, they just don't wanna work on that largest. I mean, this is how I'm interpreting it. I was not part of these conversations. So this is just my observation. I have read that the guy who does Macedon isn't as open to new ideas as maybe you'd like him to be. But so when the guy was alive who created Vim, he was kind of like this too. He was the benevolent dictator for life of Vim, right? And if you go back and look, every commit to the Spock standard Vim was by that guy since the beginning of time. Now, obviously he's died, rest in peace, all that stuff, right? But Macedon is kind of like that. It's not as bad, so I can't pronounce his name. So that guy who created Macedon, he does have a team and there's a whole bunch of commits, people can commit to it. But he and his team have such a firm grasp of the roadmap and he has such a powerful say in what goes on. I have read that he doesn't take outside ideas well, but that has changed over the course of the last year or so. So maybe he's learned his lesson. So like he was adamantly against like quote tweets, like they don't call him that anymore, but he was very against that. But now it's gonna happen and it's on the roadmap. So I think he has opened up, but I can see where they maybe that turned him off, but ActivityPub is open source, they could have used it. They just chose because of the lack of input, I guess is what you're saying. Well, the lack of input and there is some architecture problems that makes it not scale. And that's what that makes it not scale. So what the Bluesky guys are doing is they came and had solutions and got turned down for their solutions. Whether those solutions are real solutions or just suggestions or I don't know. Like I said, I wasn't part of these conversations, but the reason that's exciting to me is that yesterday I went digging around in the repose and because Bluesky is live, it's open, anybody can go join it. There's no invite wall anymore. And then they are putting everything on GitHub. So it's all there. I don't know if it had been there prior, but I knew that we're gonna release it. But even the algorithms and how things work and it's all on GitHub and you can go see it. I've been starting to dig through it. But they have a different Federation protocol, but the first thing that's on the roadmap is they're actively trying to work to get the activity pub protocol to be interoperable. So if you have, you wanna work with it, and that's what's interesting to me. It's not the Bluesky social media. I was on it yesterday and it's kind of not my bag. But the technology under it, so I can, here's what I envision is that you can be a Bluesky person and you can connect to let me and probably never read it, but you can connect to let me and Macedon and PeerTube and whatever else you wanna do. But you not host your own, and there's here's the other part too, is that you don't have to host your own server. You don't have to spin up a Macedon instance. You just have to have an account. And there's some cool technical stuff that I'm sure nobody wants to hear, but it's more data in the hands of the user that can't be turned off. You can get blocked and muted and all that other stuff, but they can't just take your shit. And they can't, there's no walls between Macedon and Bluesky. That's what I'm interested in and how to do that. And the larger picture about was open source and we wanna work on these protocols and platforms, but we're gonna bring all of this money and shove it into the ecosystem. That excites me very much. Because unfortunately, OBS wouldn't be a standard unless the people who really needed it for professional use cases used it. I mean, it might be an awesome program, but it would be a hobby. There would be no funding unless other people that used it for money to make money used it. Well, plus if things like Twitch didn't exist, OBS wouldn't have a real reason to be mainstream, right? So there's a lot of stuff that goes into the reasons why. Like if Wonder wasn't so good at animation and all that stuff, it wouldn't have a reason to exist. People have to have a good reason to use it. And I don't think that... VC money isn't gonna show up because Macedon is cool or there's nice people there. Well, there's no way. They're gonna throw money at stuff that's gonna make them money. And because Bluesky is in the normy people space, it's not monetized yet. I'm sure that's gonna happen. But because it's an enormous people space, more people are like, are understanding, like, why is this even important? So it's more exposure for open source and federation on the one hand. And then the VC money is flying in because they wanna figure out how they can monetize it. Macedon has been offered the VC stuff all the time, but he just refused. They won't take it. It's the all crowd funder, which is one of the reasons why I like it. Cause like I said, when you do take that VC money, eventually you're gonna have to find a way to make money so that those people can make money. And that's what worries me about Bluesky is that eventually they're gonna have to find a way to offer those VC guys a return. And the only conceivable way is either to A, have people pay for the platform, which is Elon has found out how good that works out. Or selling people's data. That's, I mean, advertising, right? And that's what worries me quit. I mean, those are literally the only two ways you can make money on the internet is advertising or charging people for the product. And one of the reasons why I prefer Macedon is because, well, I suppose there is a third way, which is Macedon's way, which is all 100% crowdfunding, but it's not, it's not, Macedon's never going to be 100 million user service. It's just never going to be that way, right? A, it doesn't scale because it's technology really, it really doesn't scale because in terms of storage, if you spin up a Macedon server and then you federate it to everybody, you're going to be out of business within the first 24 hours. Like it, because it stores everything on your server from every server that's out there. Like I self host my own instance. And if you, there is a setting, at least I host a Plurum instance. And there is a setting in the config where you can set to delete entries in the database after a set amount of days. So mine is 90. So people don't usually on my instance, because it's just me and a friend from school. They don't look at stuff that's 90 days ago. So the space is kind of taking care of itself. The only time you're going to have issues is if you don't have that enabled and then you're going to have balloons to 60 gigs in the space of five of like a few months and then you go, oh, let me just just talk about that. Plus it, I mean, that's, if you're just running a server for one or two people, you know, the space is going to be a lot different than if you're hosting it for tens of thousands. Right? So. There's all kinds of, yeah, there's, I'm not, I'm not, I don't want to be fanboy about service or people or any of that other stuff. I just, I like the underlying technology. And I have my, I don't want to say political, but my ideals and open source is a big part of that. And, you know, freedom to own your own dad has a big part of that. I mean, there's a lot of reasons. So I'm just, I'm just hopeful for what it could be. I don't have any faith in anybody. And if you start talking about VC capital, like I have some very strong opinions that we need to monetize for sure that I'm not going to say. So it's that, I don't know. I just, I'm hopeful for where it could, where it could lead in the opportunities it produces for guys like me. And guys like you Matt, the wider Linux community, I think those are going to be some good benefits. And just as a side note, and I'll shut up about the whole thing we can move on is that it's not blue sky. It's a blue ski specific. And then they're not tweets or tweets or something. They're called skeets specifically because Jack. Yes, specifically because Jack Dorsey. Yes, they need to change that. No, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on. Specifically because Jack Dorsey asked very nicely for the community to not do that. East because it blue sky and it's forever going to say it like that unless they change it. No. Yeah, I'm calling it blue sky forever. I'm sorry. No. I mean that. East because right, East because right. I can support it being called blue ski, but making a post on blue ski should not be called skeets or skeets. It's a skeet. No, it's a. He made a big deal about nobody to do that to call him something else. And then the community was like, aren't you Jack Dorsey? Go pounds and we're calling him skeets. It just sounds like something you get demonetized over. Isn't that the thing where they like shoot up like a clay pigeon up and you shoot it? Isn't that skeet shooting? Skeet shooting. So it's also from that skeet, skeet, skeet rap song. Yeah, that's not my bag either. But yeah, that's okay. Oh, country right here. But Matt, when you talked about advertising on on platforms being one way to to make money, really, did you notice since you're on you're my fellow foster donor? Did you notice lately on fostered on there's a lot of political talk and and advertisements? You mean like in the federated feed or in the federated? Well, in the federated and on the main timeline because there are people who I follow that keep showing they keep retweeting retweeting others or boosting others, political posts and advertisements. And at some point there was for a while, I don't know, they disappeared or they canceled that or whatever. But LTT started posting ads, their own ads on fostered on or mastodon, not fostered on, but mastodon but showing up on fostered on. Wait, so no, I haven't noticed that. But I use mastodon in a web panel in Vivaldi. So all I ever see is my home feed, the people that I follow. Oh, okay. So because I wouldn't touch the federated feed with a 10 foot pole. Even the even the even with the like fostered on will has taken out most of the bad. So like they don't federate with the child, child porn servers or whatever. Thank goodness. And there's some demonetization for me. I just said the word, but right. But, you know, they take out all this stuff and then there's cause there's some really weird fucking mastodon servers that exists cause it's open source and everybody can do whatever the hell they want with it. So fast and has taken all that stuff out. But even then the federated timeline is full of porn and usually not the good kind. And it's full of weird shit. And you just don't want to touch the federated timeline. Even the local timeline, which is just literally just fostered on is full of some weird funky stuff. So I just stay away from it. I follow hashtags. I follow a lot of hashtags. So I follow like Linux and open source and reading and writing. And I suffer the eagles and for the giants and stuff like that. So all my sports stuff. Let's just say it again, Frago. Reading, writing, arithmetic. Yeah, yeah. So I follow all the hashtags that I want. And I have people that I follow. And then I just stay in the home thing. I'm very, very siloed because I don't want to have any exposure to the federated timeline. It's just not a good experience. And I think- I think- Go ahead, Steve. I think it's because I followed LTT because I looked up LTT on Mastodon and I followed them. That's why I was seeing a lot of their ads. But they were basically, they are cross posting from X to Mastodon, all their ads. All their ads. And with the hashtag ad or sponsored. I guess it's gonna depend on which one you follow. So I just did a search for LTT and there's like six different things that you can follow. And none of them are official. None of them are official because they're cross posting using a script or whatever. Yeah, probably are. Yeah, a lot of people have set up like RSS feeds that will allow you to follow some of the things. RSS technical for the longest time was just a cross post between them and X. Now they actually have their own thing. The Verge does their own thing now. But it's still basically the same thing you're gonna see on Twitter because that's just what they do. All those brands are just going to be posting the things that they post on their website or their forums or whatever. Yeah, and I follow a few French people. Some of them, they just cross post political stuff. So I keep seeing political stuff on my home timeline because the people I follow boost other people's political views. Yeah, stay away from that much stuff as much as possible. Also, it's boost, I'm sorry, dude, but it's blue sky. I'm gonna call it blue sky until the day that I die. Blue sky. I'm gonna just say it. I'm never gonna call it Skeets or Skeeting, never. Cause I don't know what it means where any of you guys are from, but like. Oh, I didn't even think about that one. I ain't even like, imagine like, yeah, man, I just sent my Skeet out all over the internet. I just Skeet it all over the place. Like, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Well, I mean, it's just as bad as Toot, right? I mean, Toot was the thing for Mass and Un for the longest time. And Toot is not near as bad. Well, it's, it's. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Toot is not near as bad. I told someone I Tooted, he was like, I thought you said Tits. And demonetized. Again. You're demonetized. You're demonetized by many of these groups. It's fine. I don't, I don't even think I turned monetization on for the last one. Me. Because I didn't edit it at all. For a long time, no. It's always de-assault, by the way. I'm just gonna take a clip of Dark Zero just saying that as a meme. Just completely out of context. There are quite a few, there are quite a few memes of me when I had the, when I had the podcast of me saying Ubuntu. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. By the way, by the way, I wanna plug not myself. This is not self-promotion because it's not mine. It's a podcast coming soon that will contain the three Linux Stooges. We have stuck. Josh, Josh, BigFod and I. I'm the clown. Josh is the brain, is the brain, and BigFod is the opinionated person. It's gonna be a, it's gonna be so much fun, especially because it's called No Talks Allowed. Did you just say only one? It's a misnomer. It's a misnomer. It's a misnomer. No Talks Allowed, NTA is where we talk about Linux without talking about Linux. I don't know what that means, but okay. Let's talk about, anybody have anything really good that they wanna talk about in terms of apps or anything or do you wanna move on to something different? Something different. You know, real quick, you know, you'd mentioned all the fragmentation and package space and all that. I had made that point yesterday. I think that's the biggest reason I'm against Flatpak and Snap and AppArmor, or not AppArmor, AppDimension, all of that. A lot as well, but yeah. It doesn't bend into your mentality, you know. Capture that, guys. But no, Flatpaks have still a long way to go, but they are on the right path. Are they really, though? I don't think that they really are. I would say so. Dude, that's where I'm at. You can run them anywhere. Like you can run them anywhere. I'll just put it this way. I'll just put it this way. As an Arch user, because Arch is life. Next is life. Other way. As in, because I'm an Arch user. We're not having that fight, okay? No, no, no. As an Arch user, I have gone through countless dependency health issues. Granted, Flatpaks has its own storage, eating dependency thing, but they never break. The only thing that Mat and I agree on when it comes to Flatpaks is they need to get their permissions straight. Other than that. I've noticed that they need to get sorted out. And I don't know if it's something that I need to change with permission, but let's say you're gonna sign to it to your Google account, and your Google account has a security key. You know, using the Flatpak of Brave, for example. If you connect the security key when Brave is running, that is not detected. You've got to close Brave, connect the key, open Brave, re-sign in, do your security key. I don't know what it is, because I have all devices set to on, so we should be able to access it, but something doesn't update when I connect to it. Yeah, it sounds like a permission issue that you need to flat seal for, but that's what we're talking about when we talk about their permissions. There are some apps on Flathop that have the perfect kind of permissions. They have gotten their permissions things correct. But that's the minority. Unfortunately, it's the minority. We need the majority to fix it. But that's not a Flatpak problem. That's a developer problem. That's a developer when you build the application or when you package the Flatpak. Build it correctly. Let me rant about Flatpak for just a minute, okay? Oh, no, we thought it off. We thought it off. We'll be done. Okay, so Flatpaks are, in theory, meant to be the secure containerized thing. That's what it's supposed to be, right? And you can containerize it. You can have all the dependencies in libraries in this one little package and it's meant to solve the dependency hell that Steve was talking about. And one of the features that they tout is that it's secure, right? You can control the security through permissions. But the thing about security and permissions, it only works as if it's the user that's in control of the security and the permissions. And you think it's the user, but if you download certain applications, the developer has the opportunity without ever telling you to give it full access to whatever it wants if it thinks it needs it. So it can have access to the home directory, it can have access to your devices. It doesn't need to ask you permission to get those things because it syncs as it needs it. Now, most developers probably are trustworthy and whatever you can do that, but because it's not in the hands of the user 100% of the time. Now, you can go turn those things off, yes. That's worse in the hands of the user. And in the vast majority of cases, a lot of the developers do follow the protocol of having it. You can check what permissions it's got. Right, I know you can, no, okay. The grand idea behind Flatpak is that it's something similar to Android. Every time you download an application on Android, it pops up this thing. Here's the things that it has permissions about. Would you like to allow it to have those permissions? And you can guess or no. Okay. You can do that, though. No. Do it from the command line, it gives you the permissions and said, do you wanna change these, do you wanna make changes to the system installation? No software and everything else just hides it from you. But if you go, do Flatpak install? I don't know. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. It shows what it is. Okay, so all the permissions are listed in Flatpak, which is a separate application that you have to go download to see. Okay? And yes, it says, would you like, if you download from the terminal, but I guarantee you the vast majority of people who are downloading things from Flatpak aren't doing so from the terminal. They're doing it from, you know, software. They're doing it from discovered both. Now discover does a much better job with the permissions thing than, you know, software does. But the idea here is still that there are default, none of those things should be allowable without explicit permission from the user. And I'm talking about granular permission during install, not something that you have to control from an outside app that you don't have installed by default. Steve and I have talked about this before that FlatSeal should be a hard dependency of Flatpak itself. When you install Flatpak, you should get FlatSeal installed by default. You shouldn't have to go search that out because the vast majority of people aren't going to know that it exists. It's one of the reasons why Plasma is so good in that is that they've basically included FlatSeal inside of the KD settings. Plot on KCM, yep. Because they basically, I mean, because that's exactly what Plasma needed was more settings in their panel and above all that. So my argument against Flatpak, it has one though, that's got it and it's settings. If you go to settings and you go to apps, it shows the Flatpak apps and it shows what permissions they have, things like, for example, that must be new because I'd never seen it before, but I trust Sean. Oh yeah, it's in recent versions. Okay, it's been a few months since I've used, and it wasn't there for me, but that's beside the point, that's still something you have to, it's better than nothing at all, but for me personally, when they talk about security and permissions and stuff like that, it has to be something that it has to be very explicit. So on iPhone, on Android, which is what those things are trying to emulate in an immutable container that contains stuff, that's what basically every iOS and Android application is, is that it's a container and then in order to get permissions to do things outside of its container, it has to ask for permission, not only from the operating system itself, but from the user. And as we've gotten to more advanced mobile operating systems, those controls have gotten more powerful. Now they don't, the controls are usually buried like they are in Linux, but there's always this popup that basically runs every time you install an application that says this is what, these are the things that it has. And I was listening to the guy, one of the chief developers of Flatpacks and he's talked about this about a year ago, how this is their dream where every application kind of has to have a standard way of presenting the things that it has access to, like right upon the first run and very similar to what Android does. And they just- Just like Android does, yeah. It just hasn't got there yet. And because of the way things are, implementing that on Android where Google has 100% control of what's in the Play Store is easy because if you don't have it, you don't get in. That's the way it works, right? On something like- I was thinking of something like, let's say the iOS way where if an app says, hey, can I please access the microphone? You get an alert. I was thinking that Linux should have something like this where let's say you have enough missions to start up with to, I don't know, play audio, send things to for accessibility, display things on the screen. And then if you wanna access the microphone or you wanna access a USB device, you could have like a portal that goes, hey, this application is trying to access this device. Do you want to allow it? And if you press yes, it just saves it in the Flatpack missions and you can just- Okay. Change something like that. But there's an argument against that is because the reason why it's not happening is because there's so many different ways to distribute Flatpacks. You got GUI stores, you got the terminal, you got other GUI apps, you got TUI apps. Well, and, and, sorry, Steve, and FlatHub isn't the be all end all of, it's not like Snaps where if you wanna snap, you're getting it from the Snapcraft Store. That's the only place you're getting a snap from basically where Flatpack, anybody can distribute their Flatpack, it doesn't have to be on FlatHub and therefore it'd be much harder for a standard to be implemented. Now, the vast majority of them are on FlatHub and the FlatHub guys could say, if you wanna be on FlatHub, you have to do it this way, whatever. But here's the thing. It is the way, unfortunately, the way Linux has evolved, and this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, is that everyone is doing it in a slightly different way. So if you use GNOME, they actually already have this feature, specifically when it comes to device usage like microphones and cameras, only they don't really ask you for permission, but they do show you that they're in use. So there's like an icon that shows up in the bar that says, hey, you're right, right. And that's great features. I think that they could take it to the point where it asks you for permission very easily if that's something that they wanted to do. And I think that KD Plasma does it as well, shows you that the microphone or the camera is in use. Yeah. In the system tray, it will say microphone, and it will list the apps that are using the microphone, at least I'm not sure how visually it shows it on the icon. But if I go to the system tray with Orca, it will say microphone push button, and it will give you a list of apps and say I'm using the microphone. And it just, it's quite nice to know that which apps are using my devices at all times. Yeah, yeah, and speaking, sorry, and speaking of KDE having a flatback permission in their settings, I will have you know that it's not a dependency of anything. So it's up to the user to install it or not. So they haven't, even on Plasma 6, because I'm testing Plasma 6 in Proxmox, I installed Arch with KDE with the default KDE profile, it doesn't come bundled in because it's not a dependency of anything. Well, then... It's in part of the matter. Wait, and that's another thing is that every distro does things and includes things a little bit differently. So when you install Plasma on Manjaro, they have their own, basically their own version of Plasma that they're using. Not only do you have to worry about dependent, you have to worry about versioning. So like if you're gonna install Debian, you're gonna get an older version of Plasma. So you might not have the features. And then you, you know, you're on Arch, they're gonna have like the most vanilla version of Plasma available and you're gonna be in control of what's downloaded. OpenSUSE is gonna have their own way of doing things. And everything that, you know, it's just so many, it's so hard, I think for us to come up with a way to do things and then have everybody follow it because there's no way, there's just no way that everybody's going to agree on the way to do things. And unfortunately, when it comes to privacy and security and stuff like that, you can't have 12 different ways of doing it and have it be good. You just, you can't. I mean, you can theoretically, you can have probably like two and it'd be okay. But everyone, like my argument against Flatpacks is that they have this way that it seems like the way that they wanna go is something similar to Android and iOS. And I think that that would be good. But the way they've done it right now as the way it's implemented right now is they have basically, first off, they have the developers can enable whatever permissions they want. So they, and they don't have to really, they may give you a warning in the terminal. I don't know, I've never actually seen that. Most people aren't going to install it that way. But if you, they can have access to the home directory, they can have access to the devices, whatever they want. They can turn that stuff on during install without ever asking for permission. Now you can go turn that stuff off. My other thing about Flatpacks is that for the rest of the permissions, it's all buried somewhere else. It's, iOS does this really stupid thing where it puts all, and Plasma does this too. Actually, it puts all the settings for everything in the settings application, which, you know, I suppose in one way I think about it makes sense. But when I want to change a camera setting on iOS, I can't change the setting from the camera app. I have to hop out of the camera app, go to the settings application, search for camera, go to the setting, it's stupid. It's the same thing with this Flatpack thing is if I want to change a permission for OBS or whatever, I can't do that from OBS. I have to go to FlatSeal, enable the permission that I want it to have, close OBS, relaunch OBS in order for it to actually have access to that permission. That's just, nobody's ever going to manage the permissions that way, and it's not a good system because if I have to leave the application in order for it to have the permissions that I want it to have, that's not good. I don't want to have to do that. I want to be able to, it's another thing, it's kind of like with a portal problem that I'm having right now. In order to get my screen to record on Wayland, on one monitor, does the other two monitors fine, but I have to restart the portal every time I open up OBS. It's stupid and in order to get it to do, I also have to restart the portal, I have to close OBS and restart OBS in order for it to actually work. If you have a situation where you have to close the application in order for something to take effect, it's not a good system. It's just not. One of the bigger underlying things with this too though is like actual just literal user permissions and user groups. Like if you're not in the audio group, good luck turning on or off the microphone. Like, add an application level or a user level or a system level. Like if you're not in that group, then good luck. Yeah, and imagine being on a live session doing a live podcast and you wanna show something on a monitor and you have to restart portals and close OBS, reopen OBS, lose the connection with YouTube and stuff like that. That's, this is where flatback falls on its face. Yes, everything has flaws, but in my opinion, and that's my own private opinion from using, I have 60 flatbacks and they're still growing because again, arch without telling anyone decides to delete some of the dependencies, put them on the move them to the AUR, thus ending up with a broken package and stuff like that. That will never happen with OBS, with flatbacks. So yes, flatbacks are good and yes, flatbacks have a lot of issues yet to be solved. But to me, in my use case, ever since I opted to use more flatbacks over regular packages, I will tell you this, I am so damn bored that my system is stable on arch that I went and played around, I had to go play around with Nix. Okay. To counter Matt's point, I was gonna do this, about like being able to change the flatbacks from within the application itself. That's kind of defeating the whole sandbox and all container because if the app can go, I want to access this, I want to access that, I'm going to break out of the container now. Oh, home directory, let's new this away. That's not security. So this is the only way I would see that you would have this thing where you can change the permissions from within the app itself is again, if you have this external thing that asks, do you want to give this thing the permission that it's requesting? Like a little pop-up. Well, okay, so. I will say like a first-time wizard, you know? Like a pop-up when you first run the app that says, hey, these are the permissions I'm asking for and like toggle switches of, what do you want to give it on that first launch and then have it apply? So then when you have it for the first time. It's similar to like Matt said to Android or iOS where you can temporarily give access to the app while using. And once the app is closed, it no longer has access. The solution, I think, because you're right that having each application responsible for giving itself permission to do things is not only a recipe for, you know, insecurity, but also being different in every application because every application is going to design it differently. Only everything's, they're going to ask it differently. They're going to ask in different situations. So that's probably not going to do. And we have, actually do have a good solution for this and we have, because it's portals. Portals is the solution. It runs outside of the application so it's going to be universal across everything as long as everything uses the portal. And it allows communication between different things so it can allow communication between the application and the system. So it's going to be able to escape the container in that way. And it could in theory at least be designed to the point where basically every time when you opened up a application, the portal would recognize that you're opening up for the first time and asked what permission you'd want to do. You give permission, then it could save those permissions and it would just run on as you would, you'd want to run. It can take them like that. Yeah. That'll be good system. But I don't, the problem with that, first off, we're not there yet, but it's also not the directions that portals going. Portals is, the way portals is going is a desktop centric way of going things. Like KD has their own, Genome has their own, Hyperland has their own, all this stuff, right? Then it's not individual. Yeah, they're not using, it's not an individual use type thing. Like where it's not the global key bindings, it's not going to be permissions. You're not going to have a permissions portal and a key bind portal and all this stuff. You're going to have a Wayland portal or a Hyperland portal, WL Roots portal. And those things are going to have to coalesce around the other things. And if each of the portals has to implement this thing, it's just never going to happen because they all would have to do it in the same way. And they're not all going to do it in the same way because we know that they're not going to do it in the same way. That's the way things work, right? So in order for, I think for this idea to work, you really truly have to have something of a standard in order for it to happen. And unfortunately, I think that the way Flatpak has done it is their recognition that you can't have a standard but if you don't control it yourself. So they have their idea of a standard is Flat Seal. That's how they recognize that they don't have the opportunity to have access to every application upon boot. So they have an application that controls the permissions outside of any control of the developers of the application. So they control all the permissions. You just go there. And I suppose that's a good compromise in a way because it does allow for permissions to be set in some fashion and it exists, but it's not as front and center and promoted as it needs to be. It needs to be something. It needs to come installed with everything that uses Flatpak. They need to talk to Genome and KDE to the point where they didn't go bury it in a settings panel where half the people don't know where it actually exists. And I think that that's the issue is that with Android and iOS, you know those permissions things exist because everybody see them. You get, most people are probably seeing, even if you're a little younger, you probably remember back with Windows Vista and Windows 7. Windows instituted this thing where every time it needed access to something with administrative privileges, it popped up. Over and over and over again, right? It was horrible. Yes. Vista, RGM was so fucking nice. It's gotten a lot better in Windows 11. Yeah, they've toned it down a lot. It used to be way, way worse. Just up to zero. Yeah, yeah. It went up to five. So the thing is, like Android and iOS, like when iOS, I think like 15 or whatever came out, Apple did something very, very similar because that was like the first time they instituted that very privacy thing that pissed Facebook off, right? And it was popping up all the time. Again, they've toned it down. And I think that, and I hate to say this, but the Flypad guys need something like that, but not obviously to that extent, where it pops up. So people know about it, like either during the install of these distributions or during the first launch of the software store or whatever, you are alerted to the fact that you can control permissions. A lot of people I would bet, first off, they don't know what flat packs and snaps are. They just want the applications. Most normal people aren't coming into a Linux user group and having an argument over flat packs versus snaps. I wish they were, that'd be freaking awesome. But most of them aren't. But they just go to the thing, go to the store, get their applications and then they use it. They need to be told that they have the permissions, they have the control of the permissions. And right now, that's not front and center. It's buried in settings applications. It's buried in flat seal. And if your security settings are buried, they don't exist. It doesn't matter if they do exist. If nobody knows about them, nobody's using them. Yeah, like for example, I watched a YouTube video of one of my friends. He was advertising, the challenge for this month is using PopOS with Cosmic. He went to the store. He wants to install Steam. And the PopShop offered two versions. The PopShop version or the flat pack version. So he selected the PopShop version thinking that it's gonna give him the Debian file. The Debian file, but no. So the PopShop was the flat pack. And after he installed it, and he wanted to point Steam to his game drive, he found out that he didn't have access to it. He went to the PopShop again to make sure he installed the right one. It's the right one, but it's a flat pack. So for whatever reason, the PopShop is forcing flat packs on everyone. Without them looking. That's a good example of people installing without looking and or knowing. Well, the PopShop is just a fork of the elementary store. So I'm not surprised that it's a flat pack only thing. Cause that's what the elementary store is. It's flat pack only. I think that's right. Yeah, so that's another example. What did you say, JaJunk? I don't think that's right. What was he trying to? I'm sorry, I'm multitasking. What was he trying to download? Steam is Steam. He installed Steam. He selected the PopShop from the dropdown. It installed the flat pack for whatever reason. It could be a bug in the PopShop. I don't know, but that's what happens when I'm on video. It probably is. Cause I just set this system up yesterday and it gave me the dev version when I did the PopShop version. Right, so let's see that. I don't know if this is like different cause I'm on Cosmic right now. I'm on this laptop and I put in Steam and then the shop and right there, there's a little Steam logo and then right next to it, there's the dropdown. And it says flat hub, flat pack, and then that's the first option. And then you click on the little dropdown and then the next option is the PopOS dev. It's a demo. Yeah, that's what he selected, but for whatever reason it installed the flat hub. Maybe it's just a bug then. I'm gonna download Steam and we're gonna see what happens. I did have that happen once installing Discord. It didn't happen. It's like it didn't flip over and I clicked too fast and maybe it got the flat pack before I selected the dev or something like that. Oh, okay. That's wrong. I was watching it this morning. I was watching it this morning and he was like, what is this? This is a deal breaker. I don't wanna use PopOS anymore. Yeah, I'm using Cosmic on this or PopOS on this machine right now. I don't mind it. It is, I mean, it's cool. I don't like this on a Bundy, but it's not, it's just known with some shit on top of it. When they actually put out the rust, when that's live. I'm looking forward to this. Yeah, I'll check that one out. I've been following them and looking at the repos and stuff. I don't know, I'll see. I think it's pretty cool. I wanna put Cosmic on top of Fedora. That's actually where I would like to live, but that even really is, it isn't even really true because Nome's not my thing. I'm kind of a KDE guy. My actual work work machine is KDE on Fedora. That's right. Yeah, so I was going to say- I was going to say- This is a box. This is a box. You can't do that. You can't. I've run Nome in fact before. Ah, no Distrabacks, no Blendois. I just, ah. I was going to say, I saw the package for Cosmic on the AUR, but they haven't updated it for ages. So I'm hoping it will come to Arch at some point in the future because I wanna use something other than KDE for a while, but I have tried everything else. If what they're saying is true because from the interview that Brody had with the CEO of System76, they're targeting customization. Super customization. I think it will come to Arch and NixOS because, well, the NixOS guys already have the Cosmic apps in the unstable version. And the AUR- No, they have the packages, but they have the Meta packages, but they just, therefore, as a placeholder, they don't actually point to anything yet, but it's just telling us that it might come to Arch. That's not a hundred percent, but hey, it's there. If you wanna try something right now, the PopGuys publish every single extension that they use in the GNOME extension website so you could go download all the extensions, implement them to yourself if you wanted to. Yeah, I did that son. I got my father-in-law on a GNOME desktop, and I went, I just borrowed his laptop for a minute and then went and did all that and put it on top. I mean, it didn't take me very long. And it looks, I mean, it's not the same. There's not everything there, but I think there's 99% of it. And yeah, you can make GNOME or GNOME. You can make GNOME Cosmic in 30 minutes. But I hope what the CEO said is going to be true is like they're not implementing their extensions as extensions, the essential ones are going to be part of the core OS. So you either enable them or disable them and some of them are going to be just called applets. Instead of extensions, it's gonna be applets. I think that's their best foot. Yeah, and I'm liking a lot. I'm liking a lot. It's about how Mint handles or Cinnamon handles things, right? They got applets to extend the desktop in different ways. Yeah. Awesome. I like it. For those of you playing the bingo, Cinnamon has now been mentioned. We've got Emacs and we had Ed earlier, which is interesting. Oh, I forgot to say Linux Mint, Matt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of was too old. Kind of was too old. There we go, that's one. We need Jake in here. We need Jake in here. So you can mention the TKG kernel. Oh, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. If Jake is not here to talk about the TKG kernel, I am. I'm up for talking about the TKG kernel. Right, I use it on Arch and day to day, what does it give you? I didn't notice anything different about it. I'll tell you what it gives you. I'll tell you what it gives you because I'm good friends with TK Glitch, the creator. But it gives you, because here's the thing, when NVIDIA pushes their drivers, for example, because they work on the NVIDIA drivers as well, when NVIDIA pushes their drivers upstream and they push it so everyone makes it available in their package manager. There's a lot of patches that are left on the table not being used in those drivers. And TK Glitch works with Valve directly, just like Glorious Agro. He's one of the Valve contributors. So he takes those patches that are left on the table and they implement them in their drivers. That's where their kernel comes into play because those drivers don't play good without having their kernel as well to combine with it. And once you have those two combined, like my friend Air Max who makes videos and benchmarking and everything, he's got a top of the line system I dream of. He's got a 4090 and he's got like 270 Hertz displays and a 7,900X, whatever, a Ryzen CPU, or 5950X, sorry, 5950X. He spends his days benchmarking games and when he installed the TKG driver, NVIDIA drivers plus TKG kernel, he had a 25% boost in every single game he played. That was a lot of words, Steve, for saying that it, you know, is faster. I mean, you could just say it's faster. Yeah, more faster. Yeah, more faster and more stable for gamers. But if you're not a gamer, it's not gonna give you anything. Custom gaming kernels are such a fad though, in my opinion, because we've had these things before. We had the Zen kernel there for a while, it was the hot shit and Liquorix is around in TKG. Yeah, but there's a difference with TKG. Zen and Mod or something like that. Yeah, yeah, Zen and Mod, yep. Yeah, but Zen and Mod is better for Debian systems, but still TKG is the advantage you get with TKG is because he works with Valve directly. Okay, I mean, that's great, but it's also another thing is that you have to rely on that one person who is doing that kernel to be around you for the rest of eternity, you know? And just, we've learned over and over again that people who do their own version of the kernel just they don't stick around for very long because it's hard freaking work to constantly have to compile and put all the stuff that you have to do and into that kernel. And eventually the TKG guys just gonna say it doesn't wanna do it anymore and then all the people who are using the TKG kernel are now gonna be able to use the TKG kernel. So here's the ultimate solution, use Gen2 because then you can do it yourself. You know that? No, no, no, no, no. The ultimate solution is to wait until May said 24.1 because then you get NBK. Then they work on the performance and then once that gets good, no one's gonna use Drive anymore except for CUDA. Yeah, that's true. But when Matt said we cannot rely on them sticking around for very long in my head, it was like, look at zero Linux, didn't last long, did it? Right, but like you could still use zero Linux after zero Linux stopped being a distro, right? Cause it's still arch like if the TKG kernel disappears like you just stopped getting kernel updates. So you're gonna have to change to a different kernel. Yeah, that's gonna be bad. So if the guy that's maintaining or creating like the TKG kernel is working closely with Valve, I mean, they may adopt it or adapt it internally as well, especially like with the advent of the steam deck coming out and stuff like that. Like there's ways for it to move laterally into like some sort of internal development or like part of the process for a development team. He was asked about that and he was asked about that during the interview that Air Max did with him for the kernel, yes, but for the NVIDIA drivers now. Yeah. Yeah, for system to, well, so with system 76 and the steam deck and everything like that, like at some point NVIDIA is gonna cave, at some point game developers are gonna cave. Like they have to realize by this point that if they're developing even for Linux, for native Linux games, like just because we run a FOS software and operating systems and stuff like that doesn't mean we're opposed to actually purchasing a game that functions well on our systems and that we enjoy. Well, I think in terms of games, what's gonna end up happening is that when, cause SCS someone, I think it was maybe Ionio or one of the ones that make consoles, they actually announced a new SteamOS console be outside of the steam deck. So I think as more stuff like that happens, like more hardware vendors actually start using SteamOS, I think that's when the game developers will slowly take over their own. Sorry to bash your, to bash that, but that Ionio, I forgot which one it was going to be, but it's Ionio, they decided against shipping SteamOS or whatever it was called, the distribution on it, by default they're gonna ship Windows. They had changed their mind. Well, there's another one that was gonna ship Manjaro. No, don't ship that. Oh! I know, I had to save a lot. I'm like, don't ship that shit. Two days ago, speaking of Manjaro, today is day number 1200 of me running Manjaro on my HTPC. Nobody can see. I've been running Manjaro on my HTPC for 1200 days. They should put that in a museum. It's like unheard of. So yeah, 1200 days. Is that the one you had in the year? Yeah, you had one yet? What? Yeah, 1200 days and all I run on it, all I installed on it were two applications, Plex server and Filebot. Filebot is an application that allows you to rename your TV shows and movies by connecting to IMDB and different services to name them correctly. So Plex understands which movie it is because some movies are the same name as older movies. So they know exactly which movie it is. So Plex knows which movie it is. So I use that and that is free on Windows, yet costs $48 on Linux for whatever reason. That's so bad. See if it's worth it. It's worth it because I've been using it for the past, what, six, seven years? And it's the only application and it's built with Java. It's a Java based application. But it works and I don't have to think about it twice. I just drag the movie on it, click the service I want it to scrape from and it will scrape from there until rename the movie done. I drag the movie, put it where it's supposed to be. Don't deal, Plex will pick it right up. So yeah. It has nothing to do with Manjaro though, by the way. But I'm saying Manjaro is stable because I only have two applications. Because I only have two applications. If you have anything more and you start using the AUR. You can put them in a configuration file and just paste it on the system and go. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. Nick has a configuration file? How did I not know this? No. If I show you my configuration file after two days of using Nick's OS, you're going to say, what the hell is this? I have over 600 packages in there. I have 600 packages in there. What do you need? What for? It's 600, they take you five hours to literally just go down to environment.system.package.equals and just start writing them out there and then go down to somewhere else. programs.blah.enable equals true, a whole like for 200 lines of that. Is that what you did? Morally, he looks like he cat it out. Every package that's on the Nick Store right into his configuration file. Well, you're partially correct. That's 100,000 packages actually in the next store. So that's more than 100. No, but Matt is partially correct. I cat it out all the packages I have installed on my Arch system and found alternatives on the Nick's OS store that pays to them. Oh, that sounds like a good idea to me. Something we're going to config and hate you for life. Well, so far it's working. So far it's working, but I discovered much to my dismay. They're shipping a broken version, an old version of SDDM because if you enable AutoLogin and if you combine AutoLogin with the Plasma Wayland session. That's not that's not that's not an SDDM issue. SDDM, what what's happening is the service and the way Nick's configures the service is that basically it's starting too soon. If you don't have AutoLogin, it starts fine. But if you have AutoLogin enabled, SDDM will start too soon. Then TTY1 spawns on top of it. There's a config option to stop that, but I need to go and find it again and pay for it. Oh, if you can DM me on that. Yeah, if you can DM me on that server, that'll be great. What's your username on that? DarkZero, there you go. Yeah, I'll find the issue because someone brought up with DDM because it's the exact same thing. It's something to do with TTY1 and things spawning too quickly. That doesn't happen to you. I'll find it and send it to you at some point today. Yeah, okay, because I enabled, because I only use AutoLogin because nobody else uses a computer except me. As soon as I enable Plasma Wayland, it stopped working. If you select X11, it works just fine. Anybody else have a problem with using AutoLogin because I've never used it. I'm physically opposed to anything AutoLogin. There's only one reason I use AutoLogin. Also don't use AutoLogin. I've got encrypted LVM. Yeah, I've used AutoLogin, I'm working. So you type your password in just before everybody else is what you're saying is you're early. I suppose that that would make sense, but I don't encrypt my hardware, which I probably should, but I created a password for a reason. It may not be very secure, but I want to use that password every time it is, just to have the, in my mind that- You could say it's an encryption password. I hate doing that. I don't log in and do things. Yeah. That's what I do. I have an encryption password. I type it in and then what then happens is that I only type one password because I have AutoLogin, although I need to fix it on next, but when I was on off, I would type in my password, all my drives would be sorted out and decrypted and then it would just start SDDM and do that. Well, I love AutoLogin because ever since I started using a computer, I would set AutoLogin to true, even on Windows, because I hate to type my password on login. I just turn on my computer. I would expect it to be on the desktop. I don't expect it to ask me for a password to log in to the desktop. I have a set- So I go into TTY and manually launch my display stuff. Like, because some sessions, I just don't use anything GUI, like I just don't. So- I have a set so that every time that hyperland goes to sleep and I come back on, I have to type my password. Every time. Nobody's going to use my computer either. And if they try, they'd be very, very quickly confused, but I still want the password there just to know that, you know, nobody's going to get to my porn stash without me knowing about it. All right. Now said it, we're just letting loose with it now, because we've been demonetized for how long. You're GTK-Lok. That's what I do. It's good to see. It's triple GTK-Lok. I blame Steve. Once again, I'm blaming Steve. All right. He's called DocZoo for a reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's called DocZoo for a reason. He's going to remove Steve. By the time I get that, it'd be, it's very slow. So that's true. It'd take 10 years to remove. Oh, hey, you know, actually, when you remove stuff, it doesn't have to hit the mirrors. So it's actually fairly fast. But if we were to install something, it would be slow. It's true. Actually, someone pointed me towards something the other day after I made that video that I installed that replaced Mirror Sorcerer and it actually sped things up. So it sped things up. The funny thing is, so the day after I installed that, there was a glimpse, I think it was a glib C that had that zero day, and there was like 4,000 package updates on open sues of that day. And normally, yeah. Normally, that take about two hours. It's not a long attack. But after I installed this thing. Are they all related to that security flaw, though? When they, when that seems like a lot. When open sues and updates, glib C, it pushes everything. Like it literally puts updates, everything. So it took 39 minutes. So that was, I mean, everyone says like, oh my God, 39 minutes. But when you consider what used to be two hours, 39 minutes is actually really, really fast. Plus that included 63 flat pack updates. And flat pack is notoriously slow for updating. So. Yeah, it is. It's quicker than Gen 2. Well, if I understood that correctly, it was funny that glib C issue was only with a newer version of glib C. And because I still run in a bunch of LTS over here, or pop, or mint, or whatever, I didn't actually have to deal with that. I don't know. I think it was only 0.36 and 0.37 that were affected. It wasn't even 0.38 or 0.39. It was literally just those two. So if you're running an LTS right now, you didn't really see anything. But if you're running anything else, like my laptop with tumbleweed on it, was just like, holy crap, I got all these updates now. I looked at it for like an hour and a half to get through everything. Because I hadn't been updating it for like the last two weeks. Well, yeah, don't do that. Don't do that on the rolling. It had two packages that asked me a question on it. It says, do you want to overwrite this package with this package from the main repo? And I was like, sure, why not? What's the worst that can happen? Well, we were talking about SDDM. I just ran an update on my art system. There's an SDDM update. Hey, Steve turned into that guy from the Eiffel Tower 65 Eiffel 65 video. He's going to blue Abadi Abadi. Sorry. Abadi Abadi. I've listened to that song. It's actually quite decent, but I mean, that's my opinion. That's from like the early 2000s, but like half the people here probably weren't even born. I thought we listened to that song over and over and over again. Did that on a band trip to Columbus, Ohio one time? Over and over again. By the way, Matt, do you want to hear some good news? Sure. I always want good news. If all goes well according to plan, I'll be making it to the States this summer. Awesome. That's cool. That is good news. It's going to be fine. Time for me to book a vacation to anywhere else. I'm just kidding. It's like 20 minutes later, he's on that store step. That's weird because I was going to Lebanon this summer. We're just going to Swiss places. Just Airbnb each other's places, right? Matt, you're like, why is the power out? Yeah, he took the general with him. Why is the power out? How are we going to do a podcast? That's horrible. I have no idea what we're talking about. I've completely lost it. All right, so let's go ahead then and talk a little bit about the next one because we're coming up on two hours here. And that's usually where I hop out. So I have a few ideas. This one here was kind of app-focused. And I know that there was a couple of me. Judge Nick, I think you put a couple ideas in the, my server is such a mess, in the podcast notes for the lugs. We have one here about Home Labs and one about how the Linux community interacts with the wider CS community. CS, your abbreviation. Computer science. Computer science, yeah. It's a long time since I've seen that one. All right, there's something we can do as Linux enthusiasts to welcome more people into the fold. So that's kind of like a community thing. We have that one. Home Lab, Home Lab, Home Lab. Just always advocate that Linux is the answer. That's it. I think what would be cool. It's always the answer. I think what would be cool is, you see these people who share all these little tips and tricks. I think what we should have is, as many people as we can, give tips and tricks on just how to make Linux better and what things you probably shouldn't do to make it better. And if there are any better things that you can do that have already been suggested, that are better than the things that have been suggested, to make Linux just easier to use, nicer to work with. Because I've got a few of those. That could be fun. What would you all think about that? Yeah. That'd be fun. Yeah? I'm still Home Labs. We'll get to the Home Lab one. We'll definitely do that one. I want to actually have a Home Lab when we talk about it, though. I'm creating one, by the way. I mean, I could share my Jank Home Lab. If you want to share a quick Home Lab tip, I mean, that's fine. But just don't go all on the Home Lab. Once you get people start talking about Home Labs, they're not going to stop talking about Home Labs. They're not going to stop. They're going to get to a box, document, dot-cat. It's Arch Linux and Nix and then hardware. They won't stop. Once you start that, they won't stop. But I figure Home Labs are a huge thing in the community. So I assume, I mean, I would have already assumed that Matt had one running. I don't, because electricity here is really fucking expensive. And I'm very worried about having a $500 electricity bill. So I've been very worried of it. I wouldn't have my service going... Who's that guy? Who's that guy? He's got a YouTube channel. Switching to Linux or something, he runs this. He's like touring. He's like touring the, I'm not watching him, but he's got this, he's touring the, New Mexico or something. He's running everything off of batteries and a Raspberry Pi. he's got a streaming deck all set up in there, like you can get a home server, run it off a Raspberry Pi and cost you like 10 cents a month. Yeah, maybe I'll just use it. Oh, you're in Michigan, right? So maybe the prices are crazy. I don't know. A home lab is not ideal for a person like me who don't got no electricity, three quarters of the day. We only get it for one quarter of the day. I'm gonna send you the link to the Linux, switching to Linux guy because he's literally is running everything off a Raspberry Pi, some batteries. Yeah, I have a Raspberry Pi, but my problem is not where I'm hosting things is the router and the internet. And hence the batteries, he's got a whole, he's running it, I tell you, he's running it out of a van. Yeah, he's got the big batteries, the ones that Linus advertises. Right, I was gonna say, Steve, what about Starlink and Solar? You'd have power and internet. We have, Solar is all over the place, except this house is a rental and the owner of this house, he's like, you wanna put solar panels? Nah. You can hang them at your window. You don't even have to bolt them to a wall or anything. Yeah, it could be non-intrusive, non-embracing. I gotta hop off too. But the next one, that's the one at the end of the month that's gonna be about the community. Well, I think what we'll do is the Linux tips one, where you're like a Linux tip in getting every, how to improve Linux and stuff like that, we'll do that one. And then after that one, we'll talk about home labs, which will be a month from today. And then we'll- Hopefully it's going to be at this time, not afternoon, well, I'll be snoring. Well, all the times are exactly the same. So the first one of the month is always at 11, 15 Eastern. The second one is always at 8, 15 Eastern on the fourth Friday. So the home lab is the one at night. Well, it's 8, 15 Eastern. Time is what it's supposed to say. For whatever reason, Discord keeps fucking with the time. So it's- AM or PM? It's PM. The second one- Oh, that's one AM for me. Come on, man. You can still be- I've got it at one AM, stuff it. Sleep is supposed to be one AM for you. One AM for you. It's like four AM for me. I did it not only one and an late one, so I could catch as many people on as many times as much as possible. So anyways, that's what we'll plan on doing. I think it'll be fun. And then I think the next one we will stream if I get my act together. This time I just recorded it and I'll post it. But the next one we'll stream, and we'll try not to get demonetized like almost immediately. Almost immediately. I would be happy if my son- Turn it off. Turn it off for this one. Did we get demonetized like this once? Many times, yeah. There you go. There you go. Wait a minute. Just do some editing. All you need are a couple of beeps. Where's Nate when you need him? Did you see that? Electricity just went, power just went out. Awesome. Oh, that's lovely. Can you still have internet? Look, you're still here. Yeah. Because it's on a UPS that will last 10 minutes. That's what bad it is. Oh. I'll say nine years it goes for about four hours before it runs out of battery. But mine is a regular UPS, the small ones. OK. I had a great time, gentlemen. I will catch you on the next one. Oh, yeah. Thanks for joining us. I better go get dinner because it's like 6.04. I'm hungry. 6.04 for me. All right. Yeah, I'm going to talk about two. I will post this on the YouTube channel for anybody who wants to watch it anywhere else or post it to somebody else. I will also make sure that that link is shared somewhere because I know that I had to use a different thumbnail as I'm probably blended in a little bit. So I will do that. I will also make sure that the announcement for the next one is appropriate because I think that as of right now, the event says 8.15. February 23rd is the next one, 8.15 p.m. 23rd, OK. So I won't be on that one because it's going to be the late one. So I'll be on the next after one. Yeah, and that's why it says 21 for me. It's converting the local time. Yeah, for me, it's 2.15 a.m. Yeah, and then the next one in the morning will be March 14th. That'll be the 14th. March 14th. Yep. All right. Yep. All right. Cool. Yeah, I'm going to pop off. Thanks, everybody, for joining. It was pretty, it was awesome. I had a great discussion. Oh, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was always. Thanks, everybody, for joining. See you. Yep. See you guys later. That was fun.