 Good morning. This is continuation of House Appropriations Committee hearings or our budget testimony. We have a change in our schedule. We were scheduled to have the Secretary of State in twice and today and then again on Friday, but we really only need them in once. So we will hear from them on Friday and that is going to give us some free time right now, which is good because some of us actually have meetings scheduled like me at 1115 with one of my budget areas. But what we're going to do is take out take the opportunity right now to just kind of debrief what we heard last night in our public hearing testimony. So it is not a formal type thing that we do, but we absolutely do go through the comments and and hear from people and discern the the trends that we heard last night. So with that, I will certainly take it away and I know one of the we certainly heard there there remains a lot of need out there. Me personally, the biggest thing that is that really impacted me is the child care issue. It's it impacts anyone who's trying to work who has kids and it really makes it difficult if you remember. I remember trying to find daycare for my kids and it wasn't fun back then. So I can't even begin to imagine now they're big enough so I don't worry about it. I might be older than years since when I when I did it. It was really what I actually went to some home daycares and I just left them in tears because there isn't that today there's a lot more quality and a lot more oversight. I wasn't in this state it was in Massachusetts, but but they were they were horrible options. They were just you wouldn't leave your child there and so it's so so I know how important it is even if they're there you want to be sure there's the quality and all that and I think we've done a really good job with that kind of oversight. You know you want when you're leaving your child and you want them to be okay. Well, we were fortunate we had we had good daycares just a couple of them it was do you have a spot for the day and it was we finally were able to come up with something. So it was but to me it's a it is a problem that that is keeping people out of the workforce. We heard last time the one of the last the last person I think she was last her husband's not going to be working because the daycare that they have is going to be the husband now personally as a stay-at-home dad. I think that's a wonderful thing but what does that do to their budget and what does that do to the business that he left you know there's a it's not just about one person it's there's a trickle-down effect so you have to spread out Peter I think that emphasis that we heard at least from those over the last night was not so much on the parent's financial responsibility although of course that's significant but it was more about pay ranges for the educators that for the staff in order to keep staff available. So you know we've got lots of programs in terms of the staff and the related programs it certainly comes a lot more about than I do that assist parents their financial contribution but it sounded like the people we heard from were more interested in having more support for the staff person. And I think even beyond that beyond child care it's like every system that we have could use more funding it's been underfunded and I think you know once again to me it demonstrated that COVID has sort of laid bare the brokenness of so many of our systems and the underfundedness of so many of our systems that people have been hanging on for a long time. That's certainly true with it it certainly has demonstrated the interconnectivity of the entire economy. You can't pull on one string without a whole bunch of other strings getting real short and so it's you're absolutely correct. Yes. So in my mind was child care centers per se but also the parent child centers which are two different sets of entities involved in child care. So just wanted to have those parent child centers on the radar screen also. Yes the parent child centers also run daycare they do many things they also run daycares. Yes. So that was my that was you know overarching I mean there's a lot of me but that one really struck a chord maybe it's because you know we we're all parents and once upon a time we all wrestled with the I think I've got to find daycare for my kids so that one kind of struck a chord to me. So let me just go around the table instead of having you know hands up that kind of thing and ask each each of you and one of the things we will have to do we haven't had time yet to read the the submitted testimony but we will. So Mayda what what really struck you please. Well I'd like to pass for the moment and just read you since my brain was totally focused on getting ready for Secretary of State. If it's okay I'd like to be able to pass and come back. Sure Representative Townsend is our is our budget representative to the Secretary of State's office so she was all plugged in and ready to go and then I told her literally as you heard that we're rescheduled for Friday. So Representative Feltas. Well I'm just looking during notes here we had two or three requests for what they call full funding of BHCB and I think they met by that the statutory limit that has to go funding and I was going to double check that unfunded liability report to find out what that was but I would be curious to to compare what actually is the funded for BHCB and add to that extra argument that we're spending on things like conservation and and housing to see what that total comes up to and I suspect it's certain of far more than what BHCB is statutorily allowed to have or eligible to have and you know if the shortfall is fairly small but we're making up for it with all this of it extra artistic and I think that's something we need to consider. I was thinking the same thing last night that we have put a significant amount of money rightly so into BHCB to get a lot of things on the ground but the the key difference in my mind however is ARPA money is more restrictive than general fund money so you know it but we only have so much general fund money and we have so much ARPA money so it does make sense to the same place yes yes right yes a little less flexible you're right but yeah we'll go around again the table again here so you know yeah no I thought the same thing representative Harrison well I was going to mention the same thing there was a couple different organizations that mentioned full funding and I don't know necessarily what are we short what does that mean in dollars the other thing that struck me obviously it's an opportunity for people they don't come in to a public hearing and say you know cut the budget for XYZ you know it's their opportunity to ask concerns me a little bit maybe it shouldn't but you know there are a lot of good causes out there but every time you ask for increases in base funding what does that do to our bottom line going forward and and I think we just have to have a better understanding if we want to give you know six million dollars to the food bank which now looking for more like ongoing funding what do we reduce to offset that or is the ongoing revenue going to do that without jeopardizing some of the other things we're we're doing so I just we need to have a better understanding on that but they were obviously there were some one-time asks and there was but there was also a lot of base funding increases I mean working land it's a great program you know three million extra a year over the one million we've allocated I mean three years is sounding more and more like base funding increase to me one year is is a little different if it was for a single project but it's just something we all have to be cognizant of and this committee has historically supported well working lands and of course I believe we have a recommendation to bring working lands like I don't remember if it's and I don't know who has that budget it's probably to bring us up to an even million I think on the base this year so there is yeah I'm not I'm not passing I know that I know I'm saying is there they're sounding more and more like ongoing base budget items so that's going to take some really either that two years from now I'm not sure I want to be on this committee quite frankly because it's going to be hard you know getting back to reality so it's just a caution that's all and I will add so that the anyone who is watching would understand that our base our revenue growth in out years for 23 from 22 to 23 budget year was quite significant but from 23 to 24 and 24 to 25 and going forward you're back in the two percentile range so so it hence your comment about and we and we make hard choice to budget you know like salaries and benefits are going to continue to increase you know probably in the three to four percent range yeah so not more but they could so it's going to create a lot of pressure is that I just think we have to be cognizant I don't know well point well made thank you so they actually were asking for 15 million dollars for the working lands you're right you're right we gave them an additional three million I think no no no 15 million a year for three years how do you say over three well now no for a year for three years it was for each year 15 million for each year I mean that when I was on the working lands council that created the working lands board that was the original goal they let's like let's go bold and they got under you know a million or a little less so and then I was on the I was on the working lands board until I got elected and it was a conflict so I couldn't be on it but the money is certainly well spent 15 million is a huge yes so I think certainly we want to support them not necessarily to that amount but at least the million that you know we usually do because they they're one of the few places where they look at return on investment and provide us a true answer to is anyone better off you know how much have we done that's actually mean something so that's been a really good thing but you know again the the themes of child care and housing I was going to say that child care and housing have been the two biggest issues that we hear from our constituents and we hear from organizations and that's really what people were talking about in addition to lots of um pay increases for the underfunded agencies which is so many of them and I certainly understand that and it's scary to think about how we're going to make all that work and maintain the systems and find the money or not find the money and what happens if we don't find the money and so it's challenging talks I think every time it's challenging but you know certainly having a lot of money is challenging it is but then then overlaid with the pandemic before it to end if it ever does and maybe you could talk a little bit about the the one retired department corrections member who talked about a real problem and recommended a market analysis yeah I mean that's been talked about they obviously have that's a real issue I don't know what the answer is to that right now remember the BAA we gave them five million dollars for retention yes workforce stuff um that's not going to resolve itself we have a new commissioner it's not all about money it's also about culture certainly took note of that and uh I'll be having ongoing conversations with you see and wait for it if I if I may turn to please to other things that are not big dollar items but I but I think they're important uh one was the RPC ask for some additional funding I think they provide valuable services to towns particularly smaller towns my towns in Jericho and up in Elba not large towns and I chaired the planning commission I chaired the conservation and those smaller towns and those commissions were like heavily on the work that we do which is top notch for them so I I think that's it you look like you can't quite hear me am I not yeah not quite loud enough but okay all right but that's that's one thing and I think the other one that that's important to me also is the Vermont access network uh the band uh and I think what you have to go back is look at how they're being funded and how that funding is going of light right cables fees and things like that whole issue of special special funds supporting programming uh we just got the report from jfo on all these fees and funds and criminal justice system and things like that it's the same issue and so they're coming to us to say you know and they prove again they're one of those groups that provide valuable services to our communities and and I think it's something that's uh I personally feel we need to support and again I think we have to figure out how we're going to fund them all the time because that funding source is going to continue to decline they're going to continue to come back and say we need help does anyone remember is the joint fiscal office working on a some type of study regarding the ongoing funding it's been mentioned that there's there's a report we just received um I'll have uh reason put it on the website or or certainly it was on the criminal justice revenues which are very much but but they took a broad look at special funds right and and so it's all in that context there was a real focus on kind of the services in that report but it's a very well fund report I'll make sure you get a copy of that and take a look at you you can translate that to all the sectors right criminal justice system it was a 100 page report yeah a couple years ago yeah and um they didn't come to any real conclusions well the real conclusion was we needed to change the telecommunication law that were related to cable companies and things like that and the reason that the vans people have come in this year and asked for the VA and for this next year as well is that they couldn't get a commitment from the energy and technology committee or the Ways and Means Committee to sit down and tackle that whole issue of the telecommunications law this year and those two committees advise these folks to just go ask for bridge funding which they've done but I think if we do something like that we need to somehow incorporate the requirement that there is another study or another study but you know somebody to actually sit down and take a look at those issues and try to come up with another solution to the problem you know that we can require those committees to tackle that topic or how you do that politically but it's in their jurisdiction to figure out how to make this work if they agree as I think people would that this is a legitimate function and we need to figure out how to fund it but unless they're going to come to us every year and ask for you know and the 600 is just their shortfall and under the current system you know their revenue keeps declining and so next year they'll come back and ask for a million and the year after that you know it will be more and more so we need to figure out the long term solution and I don't know how we tie that into if we were to appropriate the money but also in the budget somehow tie in the requirement that we have to look at it seriously yeah we cannot encumber the future legislatures to do anything the only thing we can do and I just it's somehow how do we remind ourselves that next year at the start of the biennium we need to task those two committees with working this aspect so that so that you know we're not having the same discussion in February two years from now and of course membership can change on those committees and chairs and speaker on protest and all that can change so you're not sure that would be the same priority in another biennium yep so I just want to turn to to Maria and ask has there ever been a way for this committee to send itself a message into the future so to speak remind itself to do something because at the start of a biennium you know your your organizationally a little bit behind this committee is a little different but there's always a new member Maria yeah I think that's that's it that's why I'm turning around and asking yeah yeah because it's yeah it's again it's gonna be very easy to forget to do this right if we forget to do this then February next year we're gonna or and or the year after we're gonna be saying we need to do something with those committees to get them moving so right I mean this is the kind of thing that you want the administration to be part of or is it just the legislature well your suggestion the administration should the administration be part of this or just the legislature trying to work through the the issues with the current law the conclusion of the last reporting and everybody is it's the law that makes it it is the problem and of course that's the legislature involved in it I mean because it would be the public service department yeah that controls or our has purview of telecommunications and all of that so perhaps if we were to put in the budget that the public service department shall inform the relevant committees of what you know what's going on next year to give them an update or yeah okay so I'm going to put it on my list of things that we need to remember to address yes and then we can think about how to actually do it the best way good thank you thank you because that is important I do I do agree with everything that's been said um the uh our peg tv they actually my my peg tv got the name peg even though they're all they're all peg pbs but they were able to grab the name peg it's it's an important aspect and it's a bedrock aspect of ron so thank you what struck you last night the numbers you know each year for the state we're in a world of 50 million dollar computers and these things just pop there out there all over the place just waiting for us to glance that way there's another 50 million dollar computer we're working on one of the mp right now that will only be half paid for after this year I mean and when the numbers come in I think that's the longest list maybe I'm mistaken that's the longest list of wants social wants for the most part that I've ever seen in these hearings that would happen and and I have nothing against any of them but yeah I think the legislature would be far as I'm concerned well advise step lightly into the future because we've had a good pass even through COVID with all this money coming down from the federal government that I'm not gonna have to pay for but your kids are you know I just fear for where we're going if we keep suffering into money issues we've got 630,000 flat people in the state that's it new businesses so you know I don't have any great demands you know yeah okay I keep my ear to the rail I mean I think I'm sorry you know I'm not sorry but I come from a business world where we have to do that we can't just say every job you go on well it's going to be more money than he told you we can't do that so anyways that's where I come from and I think it's we're entering I think an unstable time okay more about it than that so you you started off and one of the one of the things you mentioned was the technology needs and you said that DMV and they are there's an enormous project going on over there it really is and you know they're waiting their turn sure so so and we heard a couple of technology needs last night not not many but it goes hand in hand with what I'm going to throw out there as a number I think was a billion dollars that is needed to bring our technology modernization up to speed and of course a hundred million a year for 10 years yeah I was right billion dollars so it's something I've discussed with PBS yeah so it's it's something's got to give and we don't know what the something well we know what the something is it's called all the computer systems will give but how do you fix them because you know the a hundred million dollars a year over 10 years and we're we can't come up with a hundred million dollars I don't know if this is the place to discuss how it is uh that kind of the theory is that now IT technology is going to cloud-based services and it's going to software as a service which means that when you buy this expensive thing to start the vendor is required to keep it updated all the time so so the customer is not out buying servers we're not buying these hardware we're not buying a lot of other stuff we pay high licensing fees every year but in order but that gives us service that is updated all the time and so in the background that's being done on these big new systems so that we don't get hit with an upgrade cost of five million dollars another five million dollars another five million dollars but I don't know if that's the way the industry is going to continue to go I have no idea but you know that's what that's ADS is philosophy what you're doing they're getting away from proprietary stuff from our owning the equipment from our owning the servers and you put it onto a vendor and and they have the response to keep you down with the business lot the business functionality of all that I I don't know enough that's the process us if if I'm right we upgrade to a new vendor and we lock ourselves into or say we want the software as a service um theoretically the access system which is closing in on 50 years old agents in human services but if it were to be called access today we purchased access 10 years from now we would have all new software behind it and we would just continue to pay the annual fee or whatever and and and it wouldn't be obsolete right right that's that's theoretically working we do that now with like so I get an annual subscription to microsoft word on my apple laptop and I don't have to deal with it I don't you know and they do all the upgrades and they take care of it and it used to be I have to download upgrades and you pay for more and it's just it's less expensive it's more efficient and you don't have to spend all your time picking every staff it's always right but it's big to go up front and and the it's a lot less expensive to pay for it off the shelf and it is proprietary because then you find out five years down the road that it is really what you want and the laws of change and now you have to do something else and then you have to find technicians to repode and then a lot more expenses I get a lot a lot still costs so there's a life costs life costs okay kimberley yes um to the topic of vhcb what really struck me last night is hearing clearly about both components hearing about the conservation and agricultural based work they do I found that a good reminder and Maria had been working on a spreadsheet that Teresa just emailed to all of you it came into your inbox at 10 32 am and it lays out what's been happening with the property transfer tax over time and if you flip it over on the back there's a section that lays out some of the things we've been doing in terms of one-time funding so I think you'll find that interesting the other piece I think Trevor was talking about at the rpcs I thought given all the ARPA funds that are going out and all that are going to be coming down the pike in terms of the ii ga and they being the federal dollars bolstering that capacity seems to me a wise thing there was reference Marty to the rpc statutory construct which I know is right in the same section as vhcb but I don't actually know if it's the same is it a half thing I'd have to look at that it's mentioned in and I'm into our unfunded law bill of this report you know okay that's yeah and they say how much is by statute the ARPA seats are supposed to get it's a certain percentage broken out yeah and then it worked for how much is really being okay good I'll look at that yeah and then you know Bob I take your point on the whole technology because one of the places that that popped up is the discussion of children's integrative services they were asking for a 1.8 million boosts so that would bring them to 13.3 in fiscal year 23 and then they were talking about one time money of 1.6 million for their statewide data and Marty I would love to know if you've heard anything about that from abs or others I'd have to poke into that I remember a discussion about it but it's been a while and I just have to pull that back up it could that be part of the beef us their new beef us program I I should know but I honestly created the causes we had to beat us and then we have the CC with and then the beef has been renamed the cdd is and right so I kind of lost track of all the threads can't make this stuff up right and then the the piece about frontline workers I think that came through loud and clear and I think I'll stop there those those are some things that also caught my so one of the things I want to do is the all the acronym the acronym soup that are that we just heard was all in uh information systems IT systems that was being discussed so that's what that was and I'm not even going to go into what the acronyms mean because I'd get it wrong myself related to children yes hey what struck you last night now that you've got a chance to well think about this certainly every day everyone gets spoken to um and it kept I would do want to add a couple to the list which is already been mentioned but as a context wrote just earlier this week a friend of mine made the inquiry as to wasn't our work here on house appropriations so much easier now I was dumbfounded she said and she said because you got all that money you can you know you drive and I truly needed to explain to her the facts of our life here that at least from my perspective it has made it more difficult because granted there is a lot of money but the needs of people are acute and how to make sure the one-time money is used absolutely on one-time expenses and that we don't dig ourselves a hole by misapplying one-time funds all of that sort of thing um and listening to to the folks who spoke last night so that's their reality in what you know I firmly believe that people aren't making things up they are expressing to us the reality that they're living in their respective worlds and perceive that we got this boatload of money without necessarily clearly understanding that we can't just say you know we here it is because we have to apply it in certain ways and there are requirements from the federal level uh all of that all that said I just wanted to say I agree with people wow yeah and my heart rings my heart listening to folks describe what they're asking for because they need what's being asked for on behalf of the people with whom they work and knowing that we can't just say well of course but we do our best to find a way I do want to make sure it's not lost in in um the multiplicity of needs which were articulated last night but there was a request from more than a couple of people uh five hundred thousand dollars for farm to school and five to five hundred dollars in the government that the governor's recommended budget for local purchasing related to farms um and food you know yes um and I thought it was another way in which as long as we put on the radar screen to support our our farmers however many of them we have still with us as well as to provide a good wholesome nutrition for folks another piece that I want to mention so it doesn't get lost the Vermont network and we've got to get more information on this I didn't quite understand uh there were two pieces 48,000 the Vermont network um which works to domestic violence domestic violence yes um I'm thinking of folks who might be listening yes um 48,000 are legal aid that would cover from January to September it's apparently a hole that they got there or that's actually from July through September have money covering that shortfall oh so this is not a new shortfall but they won't gain access to that grant until September probably October they're trying to look to cover July and September yeah it's it's probably a federal fiscal year type grant yeah so it starts on the 1st of October there yeah so that's that's what they're trying they're looking to fill out July until three three four months correct 48,000 and then 100,000 nothing about housing assessment yes and and it wasn't the same kind of housing issue that we think of information yeah I have something from them not that I can forward that okay it's transitional housing transition it's actually a study look at that apparently that piece has been missing from all the work there was a related transitional housing kind of thing that I've never I've not heard before at at our hearings it was from mr Dalton talking about a special a different kind of recovery top house we have recovery yes it was for a specialized recovery center for justice involved yes individuals yes and I thought that heritage a little galvanized into to find out just what if we've got a population for which there is no appropriate kind of service so it's the recovery housing network around the state they they each do things a little differently they all offer a drop-in center to help people that are looking to to recover without without substituting one substance for for the substance that they've become addicted to so it's a sober recovery type type of type of thing turning point centers do this some of the turning point centers actually go into the local jails I know the one in wrong dollars goes into the local jail and begins to work with the inmates in the local jail not just before they're they're going to get out but they work with the inmates in the local jail to try to to help them get clean such that when they do come out they can they can continue down that path it's it's it is as hard a thing to do I think is anything that any human would ever endeavor to do which is try to you know change the way that they daily function so so it's it's really important what this group and I have asked for more information the the recovery center for justice involved youth would be would work at all of our jails to help that occur so I need to find out how they would would overlap with with with recovery house with recovery centers that already do it but yes the question this reminds me of a sticking out that I popped up we've heard about the tobacco fund settlement going away but we also heard from Attorney General Donovan and others about a potential opioid settlement and that would frankly seem a really natural fit but I don't know where they stand with that but that's just something that when I heard Tom Dalton speaking I was like what's up with the opioid settlement funds and that might be something to ask the agency's office about I don't know and who is it it was Josh Diamond yes but who is it among us that has the AG's office sorry you have Attorney General yes yeah I'm just curious Jim what might be happening with the opioid settlement funds because we heard last night about you know tobacco settlement funds going away into Peter's discussion about recovery housing so the funds as I understand it are very restrictive to certain categories and the Human Services Committee is working on a legislation that will set up a special fund which I guess is required 15 percent of this of the 15 percent will go to the general fund but it's got to still be used for those opioid related purposes and while you're looking that up I will add this during my discussions with the Vermont Department of Health and I may have mentioned this already but I'll mention it again the recovery houses the turning points that we have out in Vermont they have not been eligible to receive Medicaid money because they're not under the 1115 waiver so this year when the department of when the agency services went to renew the 1115 waiver with the federal government CMS they asked that to be included so if it if it and let's face it it's a pretty minuscule codice of a very large document if that is in fact included it will allow the the turning point centers to then be we can allocate Medicaid funding to them in the future which would which would really help now it won't be for this budget it would be for the next year's budget but yes so if on my notes 70 percent of the settlement and when I say settlement there's 53 million over 18 years and then there's a 12 and a half million over 10 years there was two different settlements one was with J&J and the other is whoever was all involved in the bigger one here something 70 percent of those monies go into a what they call an abatement fund which is what human services is working on 15 percent of that money goes to actual towns for related purposes and 15 percent will go into the general fund for related purposes so I think the bumper guards for all this will be in human services for a budget now I asked a question and I didn't get any answers no we spend a lot of general fund money for you know these related issues and it may be something that we can say we're spending yes we're spending 10 million on and part of that can go towards it so we can get some reimbursement but I I think we'll have to wait so if we see human services so one of the things and just to let everybody know time wise I want to finish in about three or four minutes here I have an 1115 with a with a budget so I'd like to finish off and then give each of you time we always have something to do period the other thing obviously we have we have written input that that was given us and I haven't read any of it yet I mean it was last night so I haven't read any of it yet so we do need to do that and you look you look like there's something awesome just because uh I think the tobacco fund yes I think we've all heard in writing from so Maria would you send that scene to everyone please thank you I asked for this scene a month ago you've always got it so this will this will kind of update it um I'm not going to go any further because it's not fresh in my memory exactly what our status is but yes yeah so there's there's a sheet that that explains where we are uh with that but it's the master settlement is not necessarily going away I just am not sure that we're spending enough money to be able to to draw down or match so I'm I need to I don't don't take that to the bank I need to refresh my memory and for my health perspective so Peter in the AG's budget book they actually list the amount per year there was a bump for a few years because of another correct settlement correct supplement but it's probably that it's still going on it's like 22 million dollars a year right um so it's it's still there it's the health folks we've been hearing from with regard to that $1 million act correct the heart folks do correct correct well that was um I think that that was helpful um kind of got some of the issues out on the table it cost us to think out loud what we you know what we thought of last night and that's always helpful to us um obviously we have a another uh another public testimony at three o'clock today and in between then we have um we have a budget at one o'clock that's the national guard is coming in at one um we've got them until 145 so uh and then and then we'll adjourn and then at three o'clock we'll start our public hearing