 So about four months ago, I made a video called protest distros I finally get in in that video I said these words here my protests the hill that I'm going to die on the hill that I'm going to stand on and just shout out to all everyone I will Stand on the hill and say that I will use xorg until they Don't let me use xorg anymore I'm going to use it for a very very long time and I'm going to be that person who uses protest distros the only ship Xorg from now on or at least offer an xorg version from now on if your distro fedora Decides to ship a desktop environment that only has Wayland I won't be using it because you're using Wayland and I'm protesting that now so I Have a confession to make and you might have spotted it already if you paid attention to the accoutrement on my desktop I'm using Wayland today, and I have been probably as though you guys actually seeing this video for well over two weeks and You might be wondering first off Matt. Why did you change your mind? Second you probably wondering Matt is Wayland better now than it was before if so that is that what caused you to change your mind And also what happened to xorg? Well, I'm gonna answer those questions today I have a little bit of pro to eat a little bit of a hands-to-ring if you will and I'm going to talk about Why I finally made the switch made the hop to Wayland and we're gonna find out whether or not Matt who has been notoriously anti Wayland or Yeah anti Wayland has become a Wayland fanboy We're gonna find that out so before we jump into all that if you leave a thumbs up on this video I'd really appreciate it. It really helped the channel, so Let's actually take you right to my Wayland desktop here And you guys can see that I'm actually in Hyperland and hyperland is a window manager. We're gonna call them window managers We've all gotten together at least in my head and we've all agreed that it's gonna be a window manager not a Compositor because it's we have a name for these things and manages windows So if I were to open up, you know windows, it's managing my windows It's a it's a window manager, but that's a rant for another day I'm using hyperland and it is as I've talked about in videos about it before is a very cool Window manager has a lot of cool features has a lot of animations and stuff like that They make it pretty and you guys all know that I prefer my window managers to be very aesthetically pleasing Hyperland has the possibility to be amazing in that regard and always has but because it's Wayland I've always had a hard time with it, right? So what made me switch? Well, some of it was and actually most of it was pure boarder I was on X monad for quite a while and I actually have a blog post about this I think it's still patreon only but eventually it'll come out to everybody else where I talk about how I Was basically getting sick of X monad. I needed a new window manager But I've tried all the other window managers and either then they weren't working or they didn't do things the way that I wanted them to do it and Yada yada yada really out. I was just bored and I needed something new and Someone in my discord or at least actually probably multiple people in my discord They're all using Wayland, right or they're all using hyperland I should say and I see these guys make their Hyperland desktops look really cool and they're always messing around with Waybar and all this stuff and like you want I want that and You know what? I'm gonna give Wayland another try and like I said most of it was bored them But also I hear constantly how Wayland is ready how it's actually if you give it a good chance You're gonna have a good experience Even if you're on a Nvidia card well now I don't have an Nvidia card But I've always had a poor experience like I said in that video that I just showed you guys and I'll link that down below I Have always had a bad experience With Wayland usually when it comes to screen capturing and you guys are seeing me capture the screen right now Hopefully yeah, hopefully this isn't you know jinxing it and it seems to work pretty fine you know I'm just you know I can open up windows here I can open up a browser whatever and I I can record those things and that was always one of the biggest issues that I had when it comes to actually Using Wayland because I need to be able to capture my screen if you guys want videos for me I have to be able to do that right so I've always had that problem and I've been hearing people say well You know it's finally fixed it doesn't have nearly as many problems as it had before and I was like you want to find I will give it a hard try this time So in my previous attempts at Wayland specifically with window managers, I gave it a try for a day Like usually by the end of the day I was done with it because I was having so many problems specifically again with screen capture and things like that Also, there was another problem I should say before I move on is that I had a hard time getting my monitors to go to sleep on Wayland And this this is not really a Wayland problem because it happened on X work sometimes too But it happened all the time on Wayland and I needed my screens to go off, but I couldn't solve that problem So this time I decided I was going to dedicate myself to two things one I'm actually going to use it for a long period of time, right? I want to sit down and use it for multiple weeks and solve the problems when they pop up I'm gonna actually put some effort into making the Theme and all that stuff worked for me Well, I'm gonna learn how to use Waybar because I didn't know how to use Waybar all that well I'm gonna learn how to to I'm gonna go through and get all of the applications that I need to replace because they either don't work on Wayland or whatever or I'm gonna get the alternatives. I'm gonna do all this stuff I'm gonna actually buy in to the entire ecosystem of Wayland and hyperland and see how it goes now In order to do this in order for me to have been successful this I needed to solve two problems I needed to solve the window capture the screen capture problem And I needed to solve the monitors going to sleep speaking of that I need to turn on the the idle and indicator or the idle inhibitor to make sure my Screens don't actually go to sleep but the point is is that I had to solve the problems So let me talk about the monitors first because that was actually the biggest problem more recently Now overall the longer period of time the screen capture was the bigger problem because that's been going on for a long time But recently that has gotten better and I knew that it had gotten a little bit better But the monitors was still a problem this time I actually managed to fix it it took me a while a lot of googling to actually figure it out and I found at least a workaround that has worked for me over the course of the last couple weeks and that Solution is to ignore the monitors going to sleep all together and just put the computer into a suspend mode Basically, it just shuts it down and it stores everything into memory and it just Suspends it now. I've used to spend on a laptop before I've never truly used it on a desktop PC before I didn't know how well it worked But overall it has worked really really well. It turns off all the monitors It solved the x-monad problem that I was having where two of my monitors would turn on and one of them wouldn't I haven't had any of that problem so far as that's really good So I've solved the monitor problems to my satisfaction It doesn't do exactly what I like because I'd prefer the computer to stay on so I can have access to the file server But I'm finding some workarounds for that I've decided to use a different computer for that that actually will work with monitors going off and all that stuff So I've had to find some workarounds to this in order to continue the way my workflow has always gone But I've gotten that fixed in terms of screen capture Still it's not all the way there I wish I could come to you and report that I've had zero problems with your screen capture, but I cannot do that For the first thing that I had a problem with is that it would work but eventually when I switched to a different scene so like if I went to My webcam here and then switched back to the no cam where my camera is gone It would be frozen right the the screen capture would no longer be working we've I've managed to get that fixed by Changing from the hyperland portal. It's in the open SUSE repositories to the Git version basically I built it from source that solved that problem and that was good I figured you know if that's the only problem that I'm gonna have that's fine But unfortunately, it's not the only problem that I'm having so recently for whatever reason the last couple days I've had this issue where when I open up OBS and select the Screen that I want to capture in the portal It won't actually capture that screen and it's weird. It's always one screen I can always record so I have three monitors It will record two of the monitors or capture two of the monitors. It won't record. It won't capture the third monitor I have to actually restart the portal with system CDL I'm actually four to actually work and I had to do that again this time and you know, that's annoying Well, just I don't know if that's a wayland problem. If that's a hyperland issue I've filed the bug on the hyperland GitHub repo and we'll see how that goes because they're usually pretty responsive So we'll see if they can fix that see so it's not 100% there, but I can handle it If I have to restart the portal every time I make a video, that's not that big a deal I don't I don't make videos all the time like second like like I'm doing this 24-7 or whatever And I have to constantly redo it after if I have to do it once a day Not a big deal. It works just find the way it is and once I've reset the portal or restart the portal It will actually start working and I'm guldling to go so the screen captured while it's not Perfect, it's better than it has ever been before when I tried wayland and that's good I mean that was those those two problems there were the primary hurdles to me coming to wayland there were the Biggest problem, but I talk about in many of the videos that I that I have talked about my anti-wailing stance about how I just don't get why I need to use wayland right while what benefit does this give me that I don't get on Xorg and The thing is is I still don't have the answer to that question. I really don't guys Wayland's fine It's perfectly usable now, and I'm happy that I'm here mostly but mostly because it has solved my boredom Right. It's allowed me to go and create a new bar several different times I'm still playing around with Waybar and learning all the CSS that I've forgotten after 10 years of not using CSS It actually got me to take a CSS course again So I can actually kind of re-up on it because there's a lot of stuff that's changed over the course of the last 10 15 years So, you know, I've been you know I've been able to spend a lot of time and effort putting into making sure that my desktop looks and acts and works the way that I wanted to work I've also delved deep into the hyperland documentation and Created a whole bunch key bindings and rules and stuff like that to make everything work exactly the way that I want to Work or at least as close as I can get it right and that's been very fun for me Because I truly missed the you know setting up a window manager and making it my own It's something that I've not been doing as often recently you guys probably have seen very few racing videos from me over the course of the last six months and I missed it. I was able to do that with hyperland and it was fun So that's a benefit I suppose but that would have been a benefit if I you know went and used herpes left WM or Left WM or something like that I would had to set up those similarly and I would have had similar fun doing that That's not a wayland benefit for me personally I still don't see the benefit of wayland all it has done has caused me to put effort into making my computer working in and While I've got there and I've had fun doing it because I'm a nerd I don't see the benefits actually of actually using it still. That's that's from a user perspective That's my stance and that's where my stance has always been really. I mean besides the bug, you know criticisms My stance has always been what do I get as a user now? I know that sounds entitled and all that stuff, but I can't My perspective as a developer, which I'm not a developer It would be completely different if I were to talk about it because I understand from a development standpoint There's a lot of reasons and loads of reasons. That's a big reasons why wayland is better You know Xorg is crusty the the code base was unmaintainable all that stuff Perfectly valid reasons why when it exists from a user perspective though. I still I don't get it It's fine. It works and it's beginning to work at least as well as Xorg does I'm I'm there at that point where I'll say that if you have a system that is compatible with it And you are willing to put in the effort to get to the point where it starts working for you Wayland is as good as Xorg at least in terms of using it day to day and that's a big step for me personally Because I wasn't there yet four months ago when I said I was going to die on that hill But from a user's perspective, I'm still not quite sure What the benefit is besides solving matt's boredom, you know, I mean, it's it's just not it's not something that I've really truly understood now Hyperland is a little bit differently. It's I look at it a little bit differently I understand that Wayland enables a lot of this stuff So I suppose if I were to get into them the minute details where you know I have all these really cool animations and that's really cool I mean Wayland allows all that stuff without having to add in any extra tools. So that's neat, I suppose But I don't need any of that stuff. It's not a useful feature I haven't found the useful feature to be honest with you for Wayland or even hyperland. They're just good That's really all that matters And I suppose if I look into if I look at it in a way where I know the Xorg is dying and or is going to be dead very very soon And I look at it as Wayland needs to be good enough to replace Xorg It doesn't need a top tier feature to get me to switch. It's not something It's not a new distro or a new way of doing a distro. It's not nixos I don't have to you know, it doesn't have to do things differently It just has to be as good as the thing that it's replacing what this is isn't an Improvement so much from a user perspective. It's just a replacement for something that is no longer maintained And if I look at it that way, I understand if I'm looking at it as well, what's the user benefit? Well, that's where I come into problems because there's not actually a huge user benefit What it is is just a it's providing users the ability to continue to use their computers With an up-to-date graphic stack because Xorg is dying or is dead, right? So that's the whole benefit That's the whole way that I have to look at it And I'm coming around to that right like I'm I'm no longer expecting there to be some Grand brand new feature or whatever that it's going to make me happy That's an entitled way of looking at things and I understand that and I'm toning that down Now there is a couple other areas that I need to talk about so first A big problem for a lot of people when it comes to using Wayland specifically on compositors at least Is gaming now? I don't do a lot of gaming on my main machine. Usually I use my steam deck for that at least so far I will say that gaming has been better on Wayland this time Then it was the last time that I tried it so far now granted. I've only played a couple games I've spent a few you know, maybe 10 or 15 hours in city skylines It works fine It works at least as well as it does on xorg and that's really all that I need to to to know It doesn't work as well as it does an xorg now I do not care about frames per second or at least I don't pay attention to frames per second So if you're in like a shooter or something like that or you're You know playing some games where frames per second really matters I don't I can't tell you whether or not it's better or worse on Wayland A lot of people say that it's way worse I don't have that experience because city skylines only runs at 30 frames per second anyways And it gets that at least as far as I can tell there's no like drop frames or anything like that So it works fine in city skylines too. I'll elsewhere, you know, I'm like I said, I'm not much of a shooter guy So at least not anymore So I can't really tell you how that works, but it does run them fine And you guys don't remember I'm just the frames per second argument thing has just never been very good for me because I can't really Notice the difference between 60 and 90 anyways. My eyes are horrible So in terms of gaming it does seem to be better than it was last time because last time I used it It was very very laggy this time not so much So I've switched to Wayland and I've switched to hyperland and I'm continued going to continue to use it now for Probably until I get bored and need to find something different Because now my complaints about Wayland really kind of fall down into the the realm of we need some more window managers We really need more window managers because I want more choice because I like to hop between window managers Right now. There aren't a lot of window managers out there that use Wayland. There's cutile There's hyperland. There's sway and then there's a whole bunch of really small Kind of half maintained window managers out there That you know may or may not survive the year You know the ones that I'm talking about so it's unlike in xorg where we have a whole bunch of window managers that are either You know still readily maintained or are basically finished, right? They've been Finished for a long time and they just work my problem with Wayland now because I always have to have some kind of problem I can't just be happy about things I my problem right now is just that there's not the amount of choice that I was happy with on Xorg, you know, because if I got sick of exponent I could go to q-tile if I got sick of q-tile I could go to i3 or bspwm or dwm or whatever you name it There were 30 different options with xorg with with Wayland There's three basically now There's a few other smaller ones that you could use but they're not well developed not well maintained In terms of like a broad community that's going to maintain them and you worry about them still being around for a while so You know they There's an issue here. There's a dearth of options in choice and that's unusual when it comes to this kind of thing I think though that over time that will you know solve itself eventually We'll we'll have the same amount of choice on Wayland as we did on xorg It's just going to take some time now that Wayland's actually something That can be used by the vast majority of people so I switched to Wayland I've that whole four months ago thing where I said I was going to die on the hill of xorg Did not last very long, but I've seen I I think the they would say I've come to jesus I I've I've seen the light if you will if you how many different metaphors can I come up with I don't know But I've seen it. I've decided that xorg unfortunately is going to go the way of the dodo We know that for sure even if I took a while to admit it And I needed to start getting to the point where I've spent some time in Wayland to know what I'm doing So that when the time does come and I can't absolutely fall back text or you know, I I can say well You know, I can just use Wayland and I'm going to be fairly happy about it. So I've done it It's it's done and I'm mostly happy So that's it for this video if you guys have thoughts on this whole thing you can leave those in the comment section below I know I'm always very wishy-washy about what I use. I always have been some of it is the you know, I have Phenomenal add when it comes to my computer. I like to change things a lot I changed color schemes a lot at least I used to and it's just kind of the way that I've always been So I understand that that bugs a lot of people because there are those people out there They've been using the same thing for the last 30 years and are very very happy about it And they don't understand people who's changed things all the time. So Unfortunately, that's just the way that I am. So anyways, that's it for this video Comments in the comment section below if you can follow me unmasked it on our odyssey Those links will be in the video description. You can support me on patreon at patreon.com slash the linux cast You can also head on over to the store at shop.thelinuxcast.org there You'll find desk mats and hats and hoodies and stuff There's also a couple brand new t-shirts over there that I just created that were that look pretty awesome So if you want to go over and check those out You can as well that shop that the linuxcast.org all of the stuff All the proceeds that come from there go directly to helping me make more linux content So thank you so very much if you've done so thanks to everybody who does support me on patreon and youtube because you're all absolutely amazing Just seriously. Thank you so very much for your support. I truly just Every day I like Seriously, you guys are awesome And I can't believe that people support me to do this silly thing on youtube. So thank you so very much for your support Thanks everybody for watching. I'll see you Next time