 All right, we'd like to start the meeting. We are here tonight to discuss JC Corey Park master planning. My name is Joseph Curlin. I'm the superintendent of parks and forestry for the city of Sheboygan. I'm very excited to be here tonight. It's a rare occasion when we are able to do a new master plan for a city park. So it's an exciting process. I would like to welcome everyone that's here tonight that came to the meeting and then also signs of the times. We have this going out virtually in many forms. So welcome the people that are watching us virtually also. The people here like to remind you that we are gonna practice social distancing. So please, even at the end of the meeting when we talk with the consultants, please maintain that six foot distancing. Appreciate that. There will be time for questions for people that are at the meeting, for the people that are not here. And I'm gonna encourage everybody watching this over the next couple of weeks to please go to Sheboygan, DPW, that's our website. And go to contacts. And then just simple, it's simple, you fill out a form, ask us a question, tell us that you've seen us. Let us know what questions you have about a new design at JC Park. And we will get back to you. So please do that. Everybody that's watching this, I would appreciate that. So this is actually the second community meeting that we're holding. We did meet with people actually at the park, users of the disc golf course, users of the bike path, mountain biking and users of the Corey Beach Adventure Park. We sent out invitations to those three groups and they sent them out to people that they know that really use the area and we were able to get their feedback. So that happened on August 27th. This is our second community meeting and then there will be one more final community meeting and that will be with the Marina Parks and Forestry Committee sometime in November that has not been cited yet. But today with us, I'm gonna be shortly turning this over to the consultants that the city picked. At the beginning of the year, we sent out requests for proposals to several consulting firms that we know and it was given to Grape Automattison. We have with us tonight, Joe Porter, Ed Freer and Alex Thill. So they will be walking us through this process in just a minute. So I'm gonna first answer a question. What is a master plan? A master plan allows the city to assess current and future recreational needs, evaluate feasible options, develop a strategic action plan and budget for long-term or phased-in development and improvements. Why are we doing this now for JC Park? In 2003, the city formed a public-private agreement for the operation of Corey Beach. So if you've been there since 2003 during the summer, 2013 during the summertime, you will see a bunch of blow-up things in the water and those are called Wibbits and we work with now for the last three years Mike Miller, who's the owner of EOS, to operate the Corey Beach. This has been a very successful relationship and we've seen that from this relationship, we need to further look into the future of not only the Corey Beach and what's happening there and what it can become and possible new relationships, public-private, but also at the disc golf course. Also at our mountain biking trails, hiking trails, at the river corridor, at extending any trails that we may have to and from the park. We have two major parks adjacent to JC Park, Maywood and Evergreen. So we're taking a look at how those all connect, how they can complement each other, the connectivity through paths. And again, we're very excited to move forward with this process and we'd love to hear your comments. So I'm going to turn this over to Joe Porter and let him do the presentation. Thank you. Thanks, Joe and thanks for everyone attending both in-person and virtually. These are a try and time for everyone. So I appreciate everyone's patience as we navigate this more virtual setting. But I'm the project manager for Grafe on this project and I'll be walking you through the design process, what we've done to date and where we want to be toward the end of the year. And as Joe Kurlin had mentioned, this is a master planning process. So we're talking about big ideas that influence the future of the park moving forward into the future. With that, one of the very first things that we did was basically inventory the park and identify opportunities and constraints, both regionally and more locally. What you can see here is what we call a contacts map which shows relationships between Corey Park and other public destinations, as well as public transit routes and regional proximity to Lake Michigan. Corey Park, the northern boundary of Corey Park is right along the Pigeon River which flows directly into Lake Michigan. The orange circles represent a 20 minute walk from Corey Park or to Corey Park and a five minute bike ride. So it gives you an idea of how close Corey Park is to some of these other public destinations. During our physical site inventory, we identified basically existing conditions that informed our analysis moving forward in identifying opportunities and challenges associated with the current site. Let's see if I can figure out how to use this pointer here. So the first photo on the top left shows an example of some challenging access into not only the park, but the beach itself. Two, the pedestrian routes both are limited in size and hierarchy in terms of how they can be used. A big one is restricted views of the water which you can see in image three here. When you enter the park, you can't see immediately the park's number one asset, which is the pond. So that was something that we identified right away as not only a challenge, but also an opportunity that we'll discuss later. There is restricted access to the beach which both from a physical standpoint and a logistic standpoint. There's some remnant structures from an old water slide for anyone who is familiar with the park years ago. There's a significant erosion along the Pigeon River. As you can see here, there's a trail running right along the edge that is about to fall right into the river. There's currently approximately 150 parking spaces and there's the stormwater runoff from the parking lot that flows directly into the Pigeon River. There are great views around the pond from these bluffs that average in height in relation to the water level between three and nine to 12 feet. There's a 20-hole disc golf course which is very popular. There's a swimming beach that as probably many of you know is also very popular. You do, it is paid access, but the rest of the park is open and there's some public art along the perimeter of the park here near the underpass that connects Corrie Park to Evergreen Park. So with the inventory, we generated a site analysis that identified opportunities and constraints. Basically what that means is these opportunities and constraints inform the design moving forward. So one thing that we identified as an opportunity is kind of an increased presence along Kalamit Drive here and an enhanced entry experience into the park. Another opportunity is to open views up into the pond and that is also part of that entry experience. There is limited access to the beach and wayfinding as far as access to the trails that run throughout the park. There's the bluffs that occur. This being a remnant Corrie, there's basically a vertical drop around three quarters of the pond here and that presents both an opportunity and a constraint from physical access. So on the north side of the pond, there's about an average of a three foot drop and the northeast corner and along the east side that bluff and the vertical drop increases to about nine to 12 feet. The existing infrastructure, the playground is outdated. So there's an opportunity to improve that. There's a significant topographic change along the east side leading down. So there's access challenges associated with that. There's some low-lying areas kind of in the northeastern portion of the park that are both an opportunity and a constraint. It's a great naturalized area for wildlife viewing and interpretive experiences, but it's also very wet back there. So from a use standpoint, there's some limitations there. And this just summarizes those opportunities and constraints and I'm not gonna delve into this much right now, but there will be a PDF of this presentation available on the DPW website if you wanna take a closer look at these and again, as Joe was saying, there's also a link to provide questions and comments based upon the presentation that you see today or in the future. So what we've heard thus far based upon a couple of meetings we've had with both the steering committee that Joe Curlin manages as well as the stakeholder groups which represent the majority of the users of the park led us to develop two high-level concept alternatives that identify program elements that will eventually be refined into a single consensus plan that shows a little bit more detail. But tonight we're here to talk a little bit about those two design alternatives and to get your feedback and your input on likes, dislikes and questions that you may have associated with those concept alternatives. So just to help you familiarize yourself with the site, you can see here that the Pigeon River you can barely see forms kind of the northern boundary of the park. The pond is more centrally located. Parking is right off Calamity Drive. The Pigeon River Elementary School is on the east side of the park. And the Tony Hold disc golf course is on the eastern portion of the park and kind of meanders its way down the slope and into the more heavily forested area and low-lying areas of the park. With that I'm going to hand the presentation over to Alex who is going to talk a little bit more in detail about each of the concept alternatives that we've developed today. Thank you, Joe. So as we mentioned earlier in this presentation, this is a high-level master planning process. So a lot of what you're seeing on the screen right now is really just trying to get the program right. How are we gonna fit the bones inside this park as it continues to develop into the future? And as Joe just alluded to, we'd like to get your feedback on what some of these might look like. So at this level we don't quite know if something's wood or metal, if it's yellow or green, but we're trying to get an idea of what you would like to see in the park as well as how you envision it going forward through this process or through the rest of this process. So a couple of the high-level program elements that we want to highlight tonight are the idea of creating a new mixed-use park building and or renovating the existing with another type of structure, accessory structure, that would enhance future use, year-round use of the park for many decades to come. So in the first concept that you're looking at, concept alternative one, oops, sorry about that. So we'll focus in this area first. So the idea behind this concept is to create a new multi-use park building near the current location. So the idea behind this is to emphasize the infrastructure that's already there, but it's also to create this new opportunity for the existing beach as well as future expansion along the southwestern corner of the pond. So this would be in the shape of or the form of a new perched beach or some other outdoor activity center that would allow public access to the southern portion of the park. One way to accomplish this is we're looking at the idea of reducing some of the parking. It was mentioned that there is currently 150 spots in the park and that may be a little bit much for the current activities that are being held here. So the idea is that this concept shrinks the parking a bit so that way we can increase more green space along Calumet Drive, but it also allows us to pull the edge of where the existing parking, which currently is closer to the water's edge, and it allows us to create this pedestrian zone or basically reclaiming the park space back to the park instead of vehicles. And that kind of goes throughout this whole area that you're seeing in dark green here. Another thing that we want to accomplish in both of these concepts is to open up views to the water and to the park. So this can be accomplished with selective tree removal along the shoreline as well as programming or locating some of these program elements in ways that provide these view shots. For example, if a new picnic shelter were to be constructed in the southeast corner here, we might want to look at how we could open these views out over the bluff, out over the pond, and into the other areas of the park, as well as an enhanced playground or a new relocated playground. How could that interact with the bluff as well as the views within the current park? Concept one here also. So while I mentioned that we're showing a reduction in parking to the western side of the park, we'd look at expanding some parking over here. So that would offer benefits to the disc golf users, the picnic shelter, a potential new playground, as well as the multitude of hiking trails and biking access within this area, within this park. Another concept or high level program idea that you're gonna see in both alternatives is what you're seeing in orange here. And we're envisioning that as a paved loop trail that would encompass the pond for year round activity. That could be used in the winter for walking your dog. It could be used as a running loop in any other time of year as well. But it also emphasizes the connection to Evergreen Park down here. So you could really use this as a turning point as you're using the entire trail system within these two great resources. The final element that I wanna point out on the southeastern corner is we're looking at how could some of this open space that is currently being used as a disc golf course kind of be used as a flex space. So it would accompany the disc golf users as well as this paved trail and other trail users. But could we incorporate something that's more of this event lawn that would maybe be able to accompany events in the park or it becomes a gathering place for birthday parties or other elements like that within the park. Alex, could I just add one thing? Yes. I just wanna make sure there's a clarification here. It is in print and it says reduced parking. What we're really talking about is relocating parking. So we're not reducing the parking. We're relocating with a better distribution and a different precinct. Thank you, Ed. And then so going back the last point that we wanna talk about or there's two last points that I wanna talk about in terms of the overall program intent for both these alternatives. The big one is looking at some type of an accessory structure across from the beach. Joe mentioned that as the area where there used to be a water slide. It's got some remnant infrastructure currently associated with it. The idea of having some type of terrace patio, beer garden, concession stand is not only attracted to the park but it's a nice little amenity for company parties or evening events. Something that is relaxed and really taking advantage of this great resource, the pond, as we pointed out, there's some pretty spectacular views. And then the last point I wanna talk to is we looked at the idea of how could we incorporate some new native landscaping or enhanced landscape that starts to really define some of these areas. So this could be used to define some of the disc golf holes. It could be used as educational purposes, pollinator habitat, as you use the loop trail. And like I said, it encompasses some of the disc golf holes so it starts to help delineate those a little better as more of a feature within themselves. So concept alternative number two has a lot of the overarching theme that I just went over. But some of the big changes here in the program is that we're looking at renovating the existing beach structure or beach building. So whether that becomes something that is an accessory park building, it enhances the beach program that is currently being operated. But it would be more of a renovation. And then we would look at creating a new multi-use park building on the southeastern side. The benefits to this is it helps to delineate the two program uses between the swimming beach and potential other users of the park. It takes advantage of these great views that are going out over the pond. The location that we're currently showing sits about 14 feet above the 10 foot, 12 foot drop that Joe mentioned before. So you're approximately 28 feet, 26 feet overlooking the water. And that's quite a spectacular view. In this scheme, as Ed mentioned, we're relocating some of the parking but we're also trying to reconfigure it in different forms. This way we can incorporate green space into the parking and green infrastructure, something that helps to alleviate some of the runoff issues that are currently seen into the Pigeon River. But the idea behind relocating some of this parking is it gives us this opportunity to create this, what we're calling a destination in the park. Some type of, it could be some type of lodge structure. Obviously there are no details behind some of that stuff right now but we're envisioning weddings, work Christmas parties. It really activates this side of the park and it creates another reason to be enjoying the park besides the swimming beach and the disc golf and some of the other program activities. So similar to the other plan, the other concept, we have a similar paved loop trail. It has a little bit different configuration based on how this ultimately gets resolved. The difference with putting the program or the new multi-use park building in this location is it does affect a few of the disc golf holes. So previously on the last concept plan, there was no need to relocate any of the holes. In this plan, we look at how can we incorporate hole 20 and hole one to better suit this program use. We wouldn't lose anything, any disc holes in this in either of these options. It does though have a better flow program-wise to incorporate all of these elements together. On the northeastern side, similar to the previous option, we are looking at some type of structure, whether this becomes a tiki bar in this option with some overlook structures for you to enjoy a drink or a work party, or even just to relax as your kids are playing in the water. It provides these great views of the beach and access to the beach as well. So it really is this nice alternative to if you don't wanna be out in the water playing, you can still enjoy everything that's offered at this program. To the north here, instead of native or enhanced vegetation, we're looking at something that might be focused on like a recreational lawn. This could be a picnic area, a place to gather, just kind of relax as you're overlooking it's a slightly sloped hill down to the quarry pond, which makes it a great place to overlook. You can see the tall bluffs on this end again, taking advantage of some of those extraordinary views. And then this option, so finally this option, we look at creating these overlook opportunities around the pond. So again, taking advantage of those views, but in this scheme using something with a little bit more structure than what the previous option looked like. I should mention that in either of these options, tonight we're looking for comments and feedback. So if you see something that wasn't in the first option, I mean, we can incorporate overlooks into both options. We're just trying to differentiate both of the plans. That's a good point, Alex. Moving forward with a single consensus plan, I just wanna make sure it's clear that the intention is not to select one of these alternatives over the other. It's very likely that we will combine the best ideas from both options into a single final consensus plan. So please don't think that you have to choose one of these alternatives over the other, more so individual program elements within each alternative. Correct, we're looking for the pieces that make the option. Yeah, and I'd just like to add into that as we have observed, studied, and listened, one of the things that, one of the objectives of this master plan was not to duplicate or compete with the environmental programs that are offered in Maywood or some of the programs offered in Evergreen. So we're trying to complement those uses. So for example, cross-country skiing may be more appropriate in Evergreen because of current investments and patterns and snowshoeing might be more appropriate in the trails of Quarry Park. So again, we're trying to reduce redundancy or conflict and competition and complement and build on the other programs and have some unique programs that are more fitting to Quarry. Thanks, Ed. And speaking of conflict, one thing that we should probably point out is that these new proposed program elements closer to the southeast corner of the park adjacent to the disc golf course, we understand that the sensitive nature between those two somewhat disparate uses and we would of course create some physical separation between incompatible or less than compatible uses through vegetative screening, et cetera. So that is definitely something we are considering moving forward. So the next couple of slides detail out some of the design precedent images that we've used in the past and for this project to kind of start to illustrate what we're envisioning some of this stuff might be. Again, it's not to say this is what we're picking in terms of that's the actual design, but we're trying to get the idea of an overhang cantilevered roof with a lot of glass, two-story, outdoor dining. So I kind of want to run through a little bit of these just to kind of highlight some of the ideas of what this could look like as we move forward when we start to flush out what some of these details look like. Once we get the bones in the right place, now we start to add the meat to it. So on the screen you're seeing, we have a couple options that we're looking at, again, for multi-use park structures and park buildings, outdoor dining-type solution. So there's a more formal-type solution versus more of a casual, potentially, cafe. It could be a just walk-up and picnic kind of overlook area. Another form of concession stands, a little bit more open, airy. It can be used as an informal meeting spot. It can be used as a formal gathering as well. We looked at some more traditional park structures, some more modern shade structures and park structures. It depends on the preference of the community and how this moves forward and which direction we go, but you can see there's benefits to both. This has the classic woodsy park feel, where this has the modern open space gathering-type community feeling. We looked at, again, more concession stands, whether that's simply run through the park building or becomes more of this public plaza-type space where maybe there's a beer garden or a place for food trucks to pull up. Something that becomes more of a destination versus a passive-type concession stand within the park. Just to add to that, another consideration when it comes to master planning, especially with public parks and regional destinations is revenue generation. So we're considering how revenue generation gets folded into the design and two ways of doing that are through concessions or maybe even a beer garden. The city of Milwaukee parks has done a great job with rotating beer garden that I've experienced firsthand. It's quite successful in both from a kind of social interaction standpoint as well as a revenue generation standpoint. If I'm not mistaken, and I believe those pulling close to 100,000 a year, correct. Yeah, again, it's very successful. Those parks are actually under the ownership of Milwaukee County, and they have four permanent and one mobile and from Memorial Day to the end of October, they generate between 80 and 100,000 per season. So that's quite a bit of revenue. Some other things that we were looking at. I mentioned green infrastructure to kind of alleviate some of the runoff solutions. So whether that's bioswales or permiol pavers. But then we also wanna make an emphasis of the trails. And I alluded to that with the paved loop trail as well as some of the more rugged hiking and mountain biking trails. So maybe creating these distance markers using J.C. Corey Park as a trail head. The possibilities are endless on how we can incorporate some trail access and signage. As I also mentioned before about, maybe it becomes the snowshoeing capital of Sheboygan. And currently there's already disc golf, which is very successful. And most likely it's gonna stay that way. But then looking at how these, additionally looking at edge treatments around the water. So are there potentially piers? What are some of these overlooks might look like? Overlooks going back to these structures. Maybe they become something like this or they have a little bit different design language that is a little bit apparent to their location in the site. A few other elements that we looked at were how can we create a better playground? And currently it's outdated. A really popular thing right now is the nature playgrounds. They, you can see this one actually is overlooking a body of water. But it's really just rocks, hills, stumps, and kids will play on this for hours. So something like this maybe would fit that scenario or the location within the park. As well as maybe more exercise equipment or more traditional multi-age playgrounds. Something that kids of all ages can use. Your typical swing slides and different things like that. A few other things that we looked at were park games, areas, and this can be really focused in the recreational lawn that I had mentioned. You can play cornhole, bocce, croquet if that's still a thing. Incorporating grilling areas is part of these overlooks. Maybe this idea of interactive water play that isn't necessarily tied to the quarry, but it's in relationship to the natural elements that exist within the park. I mentioned food trucks before. This would provide an opportunity for live music at some of these new park structures. Something very simple like this where it's activated during the day, it's activated at night. It doesn't have to be necessarily a formal operation to it, but it's inviting for people of all ages to enjoy the park. In the last few images, so what some of these enhanced mountain biking, fire pits that overlook the water, Madison has done. Picnic Point has a few rentable fire pits. Similar to this, this is actually at the terminus of that. And people can rent those and go out and have a work party or a family gathering if they don't have the luxury of a fire pit at home. And you don't even have to go camping to participate. This could happen on a Tuesday night. And then the last few things were these plaza lawns or purge beach that I mentioned before, something that doesn't have access to the water but allows sunbathing, playing in the sand. It gives the beach experience without actually having to go into the water. And then the last one is flexible open space. I think we all know what that feels like, but the idea of how this can be used for a concert or a wedding or movies in the park or an art fair, I mean, the possibilities are endless for a space like this. So I think. Yeah, so we've thrown a lot of stuff at you and we've had the benefit of talking to a lot of people. Obviously, we haven't had the opportunity to speak with all of you one-on-one, but hopefully tonight we'll reduce that gap. So we've had the benefit of assimilating a lot of things over the last couple of months. So you've been given a big dose of the distillation and the summary through our filters, our ears, our eyes. So is there anything for those of you that are here tonight, is there anything that we could clarify? And yeah, we apologize. We sometimes default to professional language and cliches and nomenclature. So I wanna make sure that we're being polite and communicating as the best we can. For those of you that aren't here tonight, again, Joe and Public Works is eagerly waiting your questions, comments. And the important thing of tonight is not so much, do you like this or do you like that is, have we missed anything? What would you like to see happen in Sheboygan and increase the versatility, diversity of what your park system has to offer? I don't know, can you guys hear me? This is John from the Rec Department, virtual. Yes, we can hear you. Can you hear us? All right, well, I'm sure. I know I played real golf or regular golf. Is there a norm for disc golf that it's 20 holes and maybe I missed that discussion at the last planning meeting? Is it normally 18 or is it, I mean, if they miss a couple of holes is that gonna cause a problem? I guess my question is, what's the norm for disc golf if there is one? So I'm not a disc golfer. We have somebody in the audience who knows the sport. To my experience, it's typically 18. I hope I'm not wrong. But again, that's my experience. That doesn't mean. Hello? So that doesn't mean some courses don't have more that you can rotate in a whole, rotate out a whole maintenance, degree of difficulty, things like that, are not that different than what you might see on a regular golf course. But the official league play that I'm familiar with is typically based on the number nine or multiples of the number nine. Is there anybody in the audience who plays disc that can add to that? Yeah, that is correct. That either nine or 18 is total. So it's just like regular golf. Otherwise, you're just using a basket in a frisbee versus a club in a ball. But everything else is the same. Well, I agree. Physically it's a par three. Yeah. And again, like regular golf, there's many ways that you can modify the length, enhance or challenge the par and make it more competitive or less competitive. The reason why there are 20 holes here is because there was space for 20 holes. But I think what that offers is an opportunity and some degree of flexibility in, if we did, if we collectively wanted to allocate some of that space that's currently being used for disc golf for some other use, I see it as an opportunity because we have what many perceive as two additional holes there. Let me just put one other layer or off of you another way of looking at this. So the master plan at a very high level is identifying one of the desirable and popular uses is the disc golf. What we're looking at today, we are not in any way shape or form eliminating disc golf in the park. It's staying. The majority of the area that you know of as the course today is staying intact. So as the popularity or the management and the usage of the course changes is challenged, whatever, we're pretty much honoring more or less the current property of the golf, except in one option to create a little more separation as Joe was alluding to earlier and making the fit more compatible. We are suggesting that it would probably affect the relocation of two holes. Whether you wanna have 2018, 21, that's really up to the management of the course within that bubble. We're certainly not implying or recommending that it goes to 17. Just to follow up on that, I mean, I'm thoroughly impressed. I mean, this is like a comparable to the destination Kohler golf courses and with the addition of the golf and all of these things. I mean, there's some really beautiful amenities and potential that's just great. You guys are talking about it and I'll sign out now, but I'm thoroughly impressed with all the ideas and the drawings and the thought, the process that's been put into it. So, is there a long-term plan for funding or starting? Or is there, are we still just in the planning? Sorry, Ovid. Yep, thank you, John. And I can talk to that. This is truly the design process and you're right. There are some beautiful things on this. I just wanna convey that to everyone too. This is really some big thinking, you know, as well as some smaller things that could be done right away. The next step is relationships, agreements, public, private, we'll go from there, but we really wanna kind of have a thought process of where we're gonna go and then start figuring out how we're gonna get there. Thanks, Joe. And to add to that, you know, with any master plan, when we're talking about big ideas like this, and implementing those ideas, it's almost always phased. So, once we reach a consensus plan, moving forward based upon your input tonight and in the near future, we are going to pull together a phasing diagram that identifies priorities and phased implementation based upon budget so that we're creating an opportunity to implement different elements of the design and bite-sized chunks. We also want you to think about a dimension we haven't discussed in the presentation, and that's time. So, the seasonality of this property, and we just had some questions and clarifications on the disc, but we talked about the beach. So, this is a 12 month facility, and so we did allude to or talk about snowshoeing or skiing, but just the 12 month opportunity of hiking, bird watching, the balance of natural versus program recreation, the woodland area, and it's magic, the ability to introduce boardwalks and modify that experience, the interface with the river. Those are all important things. So, it's not just the obvious things that we want to talk about or get feedback on in terms of the buildings, the shoreline, the adjacencies and the shared facilities. So, the relocation of the parking, is that the right thing to do? This circular paved primary or alpha trail system that Alex mentioned, you know, does that serve for better universal access, greater diversity and multi-generational use? So, those are all things that have been in the back of our head, and we want you to also weigh in on. That's right, and one of the reasons for that paved loop trail is not only to create another destination within the park, but it allows an opportunity for it to be maintained throughout all 12 months of the year, so that people can use it throughout the winter as well as spring, summer and fall. Excuse me. I was just wondering, actually my home actually borders the Gulf Course on North 28th Street, and I think all of this is fantastic. I really do, I love it. My one concern would be is the entrance that you have to the park area, coming from Pershing Avenue onto North End 28th Street over there, I can't really tell, but my only concern is that there are a lot of children in the area that live in that neighborhood, and that there'd be an increase in traffic. So I'm just concerned about that, otherwise everything else is really nice. Okay, point well taken, thank you. Any other concerns? Lighting, security, noise, hours of operation? So we don't have- My question would be, it just seems like there's underutilized performance spaces, so I wouldn't favor another, I mean, probably a smaller space, but we see kind of the Fountain Park has a nice space that it's used, but it's not as much as I think it could be, but that's my personal opinion. I was surprised to see like an outdoor kind of performance space in the mix. Sure, and since I have you on the phone, would that be more desirable closer to parking, or for example, there's that large recreational lawn just northeast of the old waterslides? Would people walk to an area that's not exactly adjacent to parking for music, a movie night, things like that, or does that have to be fairly close to Calumet? Think about it, we don't need an answer tonight. You had mentioned lighting, noise, all those things, times that would be operating on stuff. I guess I would like to hear what you guys would say about that as well. Well, typically I think it's becoming more and more of a understood desire that we be respectful of night lighting and the impacts on night skies. So I think that's kind of the philosophy and the design and planning direction that we would certainly recommend and encourage. Technology today, it's amazing what's out there in terms of being able to control light sources. It requires picking the right fixture, putting it obviously in the best place. They are also very efficient, so they use less energy. And what's really impressive is they go from 10,000 to 70,000 hours of usage, so maintenance and repair and cost are reduced tremendously. So I think the lighting would probably also be used as a, from a prioritization where it would make sure that for example, the entrance to the park where there are major pedestrian automobile interfaces that we optimize their use to minimize conflict and safety. You can also, again, I think as you talk with the parks department, there's something wonderful about walking with a flashlight in the family, candlelight walks, full moonwalks. So there's a lot of programmatic things that do not ask for lighting. So I think the programming and the management of the use is probably the easiest thing. As far as we've discussed to date, most of the lighting would be around the parking lot, the entrance to the building, service, things like that. So where you need it for safety and the moving of vehicles and services, that's probably the primary area. The other thing you can do too is even with the technology, smartphones, whatever, if there is a zoning plan for the lighting, those can also be managed to a very rigorous plan where you can actually schedule and interface with technology to turn them on and off. So for example, if there was a performance area in the lawn, I'm looking at concept two, there's that oblong green area on the north side of the pond. Let's say you have an event that ends at 1030. It's the end of movie night. So you could have all those trail lights slowly come up, people egress, it's safe egress, and then they slowly turn down and it's back to the night. So you can manage it to whatever program you want. Of course, everything has a price. But I think that's the fine-tuned use of lighting that we wish for you. Hey, Group, can you hear me? This is Rebecca Clark tuning in. The plans and options look fabulous. This is such a great park for folks in the county. And I'm personally, I hope some of this can be implemented in terms of security. I think it's been proven that the more a park is used by residents, the less vandalism and things you have to worry about. So by creating more usable spaces or access, I think this is really great. I'm kind of curious about that entrance along Calumet Drive. So we've talked about it's a pretty deep parking lot and then the building is tucked back there. And on this kind of major thoroughfare going in and out of town, people either may be driving up the highway, 43 years or coming into town. Is there any way we can make that long kind of entrance of the quarry more visually attractive? So people know, hey, what's in there? What's happening versus just a big cement thing? Thanks. Absolutely. We sympathize with your concern there and have definitely identified that as a current constraint, but also an opportunity to do something much nicer in terms of an entry experience by not only reducing visibility of the parking but increasing visibility of the pond so that there's a sense of identity from Calumet Drive so that it's just a lot more visible. Yeah, you bring up a lot of good points. And by the way, we're in full agreement with your observation in terms of eyes in the park are a lot cheaper on the tax roll than hiring additional officers. That's right. But to reinforce Joe's point is this is where we do then delve into the design side of the equation and you use design to help achieve a lot of what you're observing. And even Evergreen Park has much more of a traditional civic park gateway entrance. It's kind of nice that we have the opportunity to differentiate that entry experience but there's absolutely no reason this can't be more attractive. And if you look closely at the plans and I realize it's hard to interpret what's in our head and on this drawing but there is more green suggested around that. And the other thing that I'm not sure if it was mentioned I was probably distracted as the presentation was occurring because I know this fairly well but we're also enhancing the crossing underneath Calumet. So the connection between quarry and Evergreen one of the major recommendations is to make that more friendly but more importantly make it more negotiable in terms of grades so that pedestrians and bicyclists and families use that more than trying to go out to Calumet and then cross. So there's a number of other entries into the park that we also wanna make sure receive some enhancement. With that. That's great, this is Rebecca. Again, just one more question. I'm sure it's in here somewhere and Joe Perlin probably knew I was gonna ask this but I'm hoping that there's a lot of either renewable energy, recycled materials, solar panels, growing a couple of charging stations. I hope some of those ideas are out there. Yes, and I think both Alex and Joe Porter on our team as well as Joe from the city's goals. So a lot of the drainage, the discussions on the parking lots are reducing heat reflection, increasing storm water management. We actually separate part of the reason for reducing some of the paving at the existing pavilion is to create more areas to treat the water before it goes into the river. So material selections, building materials, all those things will be in a recommendation list in terms of as these enhancements go forward. And I think I mentioned earlier even the selection of the lighting, LEDs, energy efficient, maintenance efficient. So those will make sure all that gets outlined in our summary. Yeah, there's no reason to not recommend dark sky, compliant lighting and other sustainable infrastructure. So we're trying to be on the same page. Any other questions or comments? Well, all of your questions have been pointed on and it says if you've been working on this with us for two months. Is there anybody else out there who's a little more shy who is just dying to ask us or contribute? So again, I just wanna remind everybody, those that are here, there are slips of paper that you can comment in person tonight in writing. Again, I understand that this is the first time for a number of people. So whether you're talking to your neighbor or in the shower and you come up with another idea, please contact Joe at the city. And it doesn't stop here tonight. The intent is for it to grow. We have another public opportunity. I think it's around Thanksgiving or just before Thanksgiving. That's right. So next steps will be to collect as much input from you as possible within the near future. There are links, multiple links on DPW's website that provide an opportunity for you to send DPW questions and or comments and to take a closer look at the presentation, tonight's presentation. And we will then meet back with the city to discuss what we heard about the two concept alternatives and how to move forward with a consensus plan. And that plan, that single consensus plan will then be presented to the Marina Parks and Forestry in sometime in early November. We'll certainly let you know the exact date when we nail that down, but it is slated for the first week of November currently. Joe, do you have anything to add to that? Yeah, I just want to say one more time again, this is a very exciting process that we do not get to do often. And the JC park is, if anybody that's ever been there, it's just a beautiful area to walk around. It's highly underused. I think that this is just something that could really, we could put on paper and start working towards, implementing the design. And we've done it before, this city of Sheboygan has been great at the building places, destinations, King Park Pavilion, the land community center, the skate park, just to name a few recently. And I think we can do it here, the Shaw Family Playground. And that was a majority of that was privately fundraised for with the assistance of the city too. So you look at these two designs and I just can't stop from being excited about what could be, what could happen, and add to that park. So again, Department of Sheboygan, DPW, you Google it, it'll bring you right there, go to contacts, easily fill out the form and put in your suggestions, talk to other people, get them excited about what they think, what they'd like to see, call me directly, a 920-459-3459 in the Department of Public Works. So I'll just call there and you can get all of me too, give me your input. So we're looking for everyone's input. This is truly a community build, so please contact us. I'd like to thank the Grave team here tonight. They've done a great job with these designs and implementing so far, making come to life what we've been bringing to them. Thank you. Thanks everyone for attending. We look forward to receiving more input from you within the next couple of weeks. Thank you and good night.