 Well, good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today here at one of Burlington's new great institutions, Hula Lakeside. We really thought this was the perfect setting for today's discussion because the community here, Hula, approves that through innovation and action, we can confront the realities of climate change together and create new opportunities that will secure a vibrant local economy and a safer, more vibrant future for Burlington. When we announced our Net Zero Energy Roadmap in 2019, our goal was to create an ambitious, actionable plan to end our city's reliance on fossil fuels. We've always known that to achieve Net Zero, we would need to move quickly to embrace new technologies, ensure equity, and pioneer new policies to push the boundaries of what's possible. In 2020, we took a big step forward in that plan by launching the first green stimulus incentives program to boost both the city's economic recovery in the early stages of the pandemic and our transition to electric vehicles, heat pumps, bikes, lawnmowers, and more. I always find it kind of fun that we, if you want an electric forklift, we can help you with that. Here's the thing with these incentives. They worked. Since announcing our first package of incentives for BED customers, residential cold climate heat pump installations increased by approximately 20 times. Now, in 2023, it has never been easier or more affordable for Burlingtonians to electrify everything because of the major changes that have been made at a policy level at the national level. So through BED's robust local incentive program, combined with the new state and federal support flowing from the Historic Inflation Reduction Act, in many cases, Burlingtonians can now transition their home heating to electric for a lower monthly cost than they currently pay or buy and fuel power, a new electric vehicle for a lower monthly cost than driving a new gas-powered car. In new this year, BED has launched an on-bill financing program with VHFA for low and moderate income renters and homeowners to weatherize their homes and install heat pumps, giving a whole new way for Burlingtonians to electrify their homes. While the net zero programs and services BED offers lead the nation, we know that incentives alone won't get us to the finish line. That's why we fought hard for new regulatory authority in the legislature last year for the city to have the ability to regulate building energy, which is the largest single source of carbon emission in our city. On Town Meeting Day in 2021, more than 64% of Burlington voters approved a charter change to allow the city to use a price-based system to regulate buildings, to ensure that they are designed to use renewable energy for heating, which avoids costly future retrofits and reduces fossil fuel use in Burlington. Since then, we've worked to quickly exercise this new authority and will be bringing back to voters this Town Meeting Day a new proposal as was required in that charter change a year ago, a new proposal to require all new construction to be renewable and that city buildings and large commercial buildings only replace heating and hot water systems with renewable technology or else pay a reasonable fee that correctly reflects the true cost of carbon pollution. So let me say again, this vote that will be before people in just a few weeks when the voting begins in early February through Town Meeting Day would create this new science-based reasonable fee to capture the true cost of pollution for new construction and for city buildings and large commercial buildings that are replacing their heating and hot water systems. Climate leaders across the country and around the globe agree that to accelerate market changes and encourage the adoption of renewable technologies, governments need to use both carrots and sticks. That is what we're doing here by first making it as affordable and appealing as possible to go electric and power your home or business with 100% renewable energy and now so that's the that's the carrot part which we've had for years and which are very significant incentives and now by introducing a fair science-based impact fee that will cover the real lifetime impact of any new fossil fuel infrastructure in those categories I just laid out. Together these pioneering policies will push forward the urgent change we need to realize a net zero future. You're gonna hear in a moment from some of our other speakers today just how awesome that future is going to be. I'm gonna make what just I just want to make one final point in closing. Last year the federal government passed a historic piece of climate legislation intended to move the country off fossil fuels the inflation reduction act. That that act was the idea behind that act is we're going to move away from fossil fuels by increasing renewables electrifying everything and in doing that we're going to end the climate emergency. Now it's up to state and local leaders to implement much of this transformative and critical vision and we are poised to do exactly that with a yes vote on this ballot item to create a science-based carbon pollution impact fee combined with the aggressive local electrification incentives we've already created. Burlington will have a powerful combination of tools to make good on this critical effort and to show other communities how to get to net zero. So thank you for being here today and hear about this we have a lot of other people to to share their perspective and then we'll be happy to take some questions. Next up general manager of the Burlington Electric Department. Someone who I feel so fortunate to to have in this role especially on days like today when we are working to innovate new climate policy changes I don't think there's another general manager of a public utility in the country that is more skilled and effective at this than the Darren Springer. I'm so excited and proud and grateful to be able to work with you in this way Darren. Thank you mayor. We have a powerhouse lineup of speakers here that I'm excited both virtual and here in person I'm excited to turn it over to before we do that we were going to run through a few slides just about what the ballot item is and what the proposal is and so I think we're going to be able to get those on the screen here and we'll go to the first slide and this just talks about what was the timeframe for all of this so what we're bringing forward now and what's going to be on the ballot town meeting day has been the result of a few years of process really starting back in October of 2020 when the mayor and the administration including burlington electric department department of permitting and inspections brought forward a building electrification proposal and a portion of that proposal has since been implemented as an ordinance which is requiring for new construction that we have renewable heating as the primary heating system and that's been put in place that is current policy in the city of Burlington but what we found out was a portion of that proposal also required a charter change in order specifically to implement the carbon pollution impact fee and so as the mayor laid out we had a town meeting they vote in 2021 we had the legislature and the governor prove at the charter change and then since May of 2022 our department and our colleagues at the department of permitting inspections have been working to bring forward proposal for the city and the city council to consider so we've issued reports in in July and December and the December report is the basis for some of the policy proposals that we'll be discussing today and we can move to the next slide so what was in the process that led up to that we had a variety of stakeholder meetings with different folks who would be impacted by the policy we went to all of the different npa's around the city to share some of our thoughts myself my colleague jen green who's here and chris burns who's here worked on this at burlington electric along with bill ward who's going to speak in a moment and patty wayman at the department of permitting and inspections we worked with colleagues from the building electrification institute who you're going to hear from as well which is a national group that works with cities and communities around the country on building electrification and climate policy and so we had a lot of process and a lot of thinking going into the report that was issued next slide please really really critical point what is covered and what is not covered under the proposed policy so buildings that would be covered include new construction proposed start date of january 1 2024 large existing buildings and really there are about 80 buildings in the city that are over 50 000 square feet that would be covered under the large existing buildings portion and then city buildings municipal buildings that are owned and operated by the city which means what's not covered here is all existing residential buildings whether that's single family home rental condo affordable housing all small businesses and then all other buildings that are under 50 000 square feet so this is a very very focused proposal that's looking at new construction and large existing buildings and city buildings next slide please so the recommendations for new construction are really to be a hundred percent renewable and this kind of builds on that existing ordinance that i mentioned but goes further the idea here is if we have the goal of becoming a net zero energy city by 2030 we need all new construction to be a hundred percent renewable and that means not only the heating system and the water heating system but the cooking the clothes drying all the different thermal uses that we think of in a building would be renewable under this policy or as an alternative compliance option if a building was not able to be renewable there would be a carbon impact fee at the time of permitting that would be assessed to account for the pollution impact from using a conventional system renewable is a fairly broad definition and this is very consistent with what the state is considering for the affordable heating act or the clean heat standard as it's been called previously we're talking about all the different electric options including geothermal which is used here at hula and we're going to hear from russ about that in a few moments heat pumps of all different types as well as other renewable fuel sources all can count towards this definition and then if the building doesn't use those then the carbon fee would apply next slide please similarly for large existing buildings there would be a requirement starting in january of 2024 that if the building goes to replace an existing heating system or an existing water heating system that the building would use renewable technologies or fuels to replace those systems or would be subject to the carbon fee as well and we're looking at options to make some of a portion of the carbon fee available if an existing building pays in that the building could get some of that back to be able to utilize that for emissions reduction projects at their campus or at their facility and there would also be credit for actions that the building takes outside of the scope of the policy if they go further than what we're asking to reduce fossil fuel use there would be credit associated with that under the policy so back to the keratin sticks concept that was mentioned earlier next slide please so what would the carbon pollution impact fee proceeds go towards what we have there are three different potential options one of which I just mentioned which is for existing buildings they could get a portion of the fee back for use on emissions reduction at their own building there are two other primary uses that are contemplated one is to support the city fleet and moving from fossil fuel vehicles to electric vehicles which benefits all taxpayers in the city as we save money on operating those fossil fuel vehicles by moving to electric and then second and critically important and consistent with advisory question seven from the town meeting day ballot in 2021 an option to have a new low income clean heating fund that the city would administer to improve access to clean heat technologies for low income burlingtonians both households and renters so those are the primary purposes of the use of the fee next slide please what we're going to run through now just briefly are a few examples of analysis that we did with the building electrification institute that look at the costs of the different options that are available this slide here looks at a real building that was built in the city 150,000 square feet multifamily new construction building and compares the cost of a fossil fuel system and also a fossil fuel system with the carbon fee applied those are the first two bars on the left with different renewable technologies from an upfront capital standpoint and demonstrates that a variety of the renewable technologies are cost competitive with the baseline system as is and that when you apply the carbon fee you level the playing field even further you make it even more clear that the renewable option is the cost effective option next slide please we also looked at operating costs looking at current electric and gas rates in the city and this is operating costs for that same multifamily building this looks at tenant metered building sometimes the tenant has the meter sometimes there's a single meter for the building we'll do both in this example as you can see all of the renewable options are cheaper to operate than the typical multifamily baseline system and also cost competitive or cheaper than the new construction gas baseboard system so what we're really looking at here is there can be an operating cost advantage with renewable technologies relative to fossil fuels next slide please in this example which is the same building but looking at it as a single meter as opposed to the tenant each having their own meter there are some differences but as you can see the renewable options in green are largely cost competitive with the typical which is on the left here the typical existing multifamily building system there are some cases where the baseline new construction system is a little cheaper as conventional but largely making the same point that on an operating cost basis renewable can be cost competitive with fossil fuels next slide please one last operating cost example this looks at a 60 000 square foot office building again in the city looking at a new construction office building and looking at different heat pump and geothermal options and showing that in most cases the renewable option is going to be cheaper to operate based on current rates than the fossil fuel system and that's really that's a recent development where electric rates have been relatively stable gas costs have gone up significantly and so we have a price advantage now with renewable with electric that we didn't have maybe a few years ago and then our last slide here looks at one more capital cost comparison this is for an upfront capital cost if you were an existing building and this looks at a real building again in the city that's about 50 000 square feet and looks at what the baseline fossil fuel system replacement would cost and then looks at it with the carbon fee compared to the various renewable options and what you can see is the carbon fee here really makes a difference this is an example where if we don't have a carbon pollution impact fee it might be cheaper up front to go with a fossil fuel system but when we account for the health and environmental impacts of the fossil fuel use through that fee and then we'd make the comparison with the dark gray bar versus all of the green bars the renewable systems are all more cost competitive and that really at the end of the day is what this policy is about is about trying to make sure that we're accounting for all of the externalities associated with fossil fuel use and then comparing on a level playing field renewable options versus fossil fuel options so really pleased to be able to run through those slides and as the mayor said we'll be glad to answer some questions at the end but I am going to help emcee the rest of the speakers and I'm going to turn it over to my colleague bill ward from the department of permitting and inspections bill's department would be the enforcement arm of the city when it comes to this policy so bill please come on up thank you thank you thank you mr mayor I just have a few brief comments I wanted to make sure people knew first that I am bill ward I'm the director of the permitting and inspections department it's a relatively new department but it's the important gateway department for projects coming to compliance with the policies you've heard described today and as such in 2021 we instituted an online permitting system the software system is simplified it makes it so much easier for a typical applicant to both apply for and receive approval for permits it's my job and it's my pledge to make sure that that continues with what you've heard as a policy described today we will work with property owners with applicants who come forward with a permit if they meet those requirements for energy systems as you've heard described or if they're like this wonderful building we're in today those projects will move quickly and move forward the others the secondary part would be if they don't meet those our team would work closely with the applicant and with Darren's team to see that they can comply and meet the requirements and would potentially pay that carbon impact fee if that becomes necessary but we will work with property owners and applicants in all cases like who have been doing we're excited to work on this project not only for the applicants but also for the benefit of everyone who lives works and recreates in Burlington it makes it a better place for all of us we're excited as a department i'm personally excited and happy to be a part of this project thank you bill sure thanks bill um next up in our powerhouse lineup we have russ scully uh from hula and we want to thank hula for hosting this event today and for being such a great example of what renewable heating and renewable technologies look like in the city uh so russ i'm going to turn it over to you thanks for for being with us virtually first and thanks everyone for um i appreciate this initiative and i really want to congratulate everyone for pulling this off and presenting this information in such a clear concise manner um yeah i can purchase and we're all of us and we're very proud of um really the efficiencies that we realize uh some of the goals that we set out to obtain from an energy efficiency standpoint as well as a you know carbon carbon offset or mitigation plan and strategy and i gotta say that you know we have a lot of help in this you know everyone understands the real cost the development costs associated with a project like this um it was great to see some of the examples of some of the renewable costs in comparison to some of the fossil fuel-based infrastructural costs as a comparison that's really helpful to see you know we have a lot of help from brillianton electric we have a lot of help from the team and ellen consulting they really helped us to model sort of the long-term financial efficiencies that we would realize from taking some of the steps that we did to not only install the geothermal heating system that we're really proud of that's been incredible to to not only to work with but you know the long-term maintenance costs of these systems are are much less significant than the comparables of the old fossil fuel-based systems that that came out of this building and were replaced by the geothermal wells that are heating and cooling the space now the realization of all the renewable energy that we were able to put in place with the 800 kilowatt array that's on the rooftop for the whole of buildings has been fantastic the realization of peak shaving and all kinds of other sort of solar strategies that that buildings like we can put in place to really minimize their how much how much energy we're actually consuming and you know the point that was brought up earlier is a real one you know the the the realization and the reality of installing and separately metering all these tenants is a lot of unnecessary capital expenditure unnecessary work a lot of additional maintenance that just goes away when we're able to build a system that essentially allows us to pass a lot of the savings a lot of the energy saving for heating and cooling and electrification onto all the tenants in the building and at the same time but it's not you know and this is all stuff that we feel good about because obviously it's better for the environment but um but it's also it's it's future forward as well if you're going to go through a large-scale renovation and rehabilitation like we did in this old industrial building it's it's an easy win in terms of finding efficiencies that just really modernize the building but make it just a much more comfortable place to live and to work and and to ultimately find it so thanks again for being in the building with us today again I'm sorry I can't be there in person but I'm really excited about this initiative and happy to answer any questions thank you Russ thank you so much for for allowing us to be here today to hold the event we're really honored to be joined by three burlington high school seniors who have been part of the city and lake program and who are thinking a lot about climate change uh shinoah finley and vivian like to invite you up to say a few words thanks for being here of course yeah thank you for having us my name is finley um i'm really glad to be here and be able to give my opinion um i feel like a lot of the times as miners were not there's a lot of stress put on us of course about climate change because this is big issue and it's going to be our future um and we don't really get much of a chance to make much of an impact um you know we can't vote yet um so initiatives like this are really really um just give me a lot of hope for the future they it's it's great to see that there steps being taken towards this well a sustainable future and it's not going to be a problem that i'm going to have to deal with solely by myself um so yeah thank you um yeah like finley slad i um i've lived in burlington my whole life and i think as a young adult and an activist it is hard to sit back and want to do more but seeing um pieces of legislation being introduced this quickly and seeing our goals for burlington has been really inspirational and really hopeful and i'm really excited to see what comes next thank you so much thank you for being here guys that's great thanks for joining us um we're going to go back from in person to virtual for a moment we have two colleagues from the building electrification institute are on with us uh christina garcia and katie cambell oreck who have been working very closely with the burlington electric team on these proposals and a variety of other work in the city so i'm going to turn it over to christina and katie thank you for being with us wonderful good afternoon everyone i'm christina garcia with the building electrification institute and i'm thrilled to be a part of today's exciting news our mission at be eyes to equip cities and communities with the knowledge skills and resources they need to co-create ambitious and equitable strategies to accelerate the transition toward fossil fuel free buildings since our founding in 2018 the eyes had the pleasure of working with the burlington electric department providing technical assistance and economic analyses while elevating innovative practices and equitable building electrification to help achieve burlington's 2030 net zero energy commitment burlington and bi share commitment to equitable and meaningful community engagement such as hearing directly from stakeholders especially those impacted has led to the development of innovative and pioneer policies such as this one today's announcement of burlington's carbon pollution impact b provides a tremendous opportunity for the community to experience the benefits of electrification while continuing to develop the local workforce and improve public health and safety we are honored to work alongside burlington during during the development of this policy which demonstrates such leadership in the space at be our we work with cities across the country including boston new york city in denver who are implementing similar policies to encourage electrification even in cold climates and we are so excited to see burlington joined this ambitious cohort of cities thank you again and i will now pass to my colleague katie thank you hello everyone i'm katie campelora um as christina said we'd be i are just so excited to see this proposed policy in burlington as we take a look at what it will take to reach burlington's 2030 net zero bowl we recognize that a wide range of policies and support programs the characteristics that folks are talking about um will mean to be and will be needed to strategically electrify all buildings this includes building on policies burlington has already passed including last year's innovative renewable heating ordinance for new construction and the rental weatherization ordinance to improve energy efficiency for renters voters will get to decide whether to implement a carbon fee for burlington's existing large commercial buildings such a critical critical sector relative to building stock to encourage electrification when it makes most economic and practical sense for building owners charging the carbon pollution fee is also an opportunity for the city to direct some new investments to under-resourced buildings within the community ensuring that funding is available for those who benefit most from transitioning to clean electricity but are least able to afford it so not only is this necessary to reach our climate goals but it also ensures that low income and frontline communities do not get left behind in this transition so be i will continue to work alongside the burlington electric department to create solutions for all buildings that'll bring the the health the safety workforce and climate benefits of electrification to all of burlingtonians so thank you again and we congratulate the burlington team for getting this policy for four voters this year thank you so much christina and katie thank you for your partnership we really appreciate you joining the event today and we also have some great environmental and renewable energy leaders with us and we're going to hear from them now starting with johanna miller from vnrc johanna thank you darin thank you everyone um johanna miller i work at the vermont natural resources council we're a statewide environmental education advocacy organization um in my role leading the energy and climate program work i also have the opportunity and the privilege to work with communities across the state through the vermont energy and climate action network who are very interested in and doing important partnership with their communities and i think very interested in this proposal and the work happening here in burlington is a model for what communities can and should be doing and for all the benefits that these kinds of opportunities um can provide so i'm really glad to be here with you today um one of the hats i wear is also a member of the vermont climate council which is charged with um developing a plan to help the state of vermont meet its climate um pollution reduction requirements and the partnership of communities especially the largest city in the state of vermont is really important to our progress and our ability to do that so i just want to say that i'm excited to be here to celebrate and support um burlington the city the electric department um the leadership you are taking and taking responsibility for acting on the existential threat of climate change um i applaud your commitment to net zero by 2030 and to actually falling through with the kind of planning programs and policies that actually turn goals into realistic outcomes and achievable results so it's a refreshing in a world where we set a lot of goals and we too often lack um the will or the ability to fall through with those goals um by doing what delivering what we say we're going to delivering on so burlington's burlingtonians have long made clear and i hope they will again with a vote with this vote on on town meeting that they take their responsibility to act on climate very seriously they recognize both the moral obligation and the opportunity we heard a tremendous amount from previous speakers about the public health economic equity enhancing benefits of a proposal like this so we not only support and commend burlington's commitment and leadership in this arena um but the fact is that the technology has evolved so much um we have cost effective affordable cleaner heating measures and this proposal is going to help burlingtonians especially lower income burlingtonians who can least afford to pay more for their energy to stay warm be able to access access those resources so i think it's a really important proposal and we are very grateful to be here supporting you and making this a reality and demonstrating all the benefits that it can afford to the city of burlington burlingtonians and sending an example for what we can do as a state thank you thank you thank you so much we are also pleased to be joined by peter sterling who is the executive director of renewable energy vermont and was part of the effort to pass the charter change in the legislature in 2022 so peter thank you for being here hi my name is peter sterling i'm the executive director of renewable energy vermont we're the trade association representing the hundreds of businesses that work in the renewable energy field here in vermont we really appreciate mayor weinberger and bd's continued pursuit of strategic electrification as a critical strategy for combatting climate change while we support as a first choice the installation of renewable energy systems we also recognize the positive impact a carbon free a carbon fee will have in burlington this effort combined with bd's continued commitment to maintaining a 100% renewable energy portfolio should serve as a model in the fight against climate change thank you peter thanks peter and uh we have with us paul burns executive director of v perg which was an organization that championed the ballot initiative in 2021 and supported the charter change efforts in the legislature we're really grateful to have you here with us paul thanks for being here thanks mr mayor well thanks uh darin again mr mayor appreciated i appreciate everybody being here uh darin said v perg is vermont public interest research group we're the largest consumer and environmental advocacy organization in vermont and we have thousands of members right here in burlington um two years ago our members staff volunteers and students uh were glad to be part of that process to help pass the ballot questions that really uh came to fruition or coming fruition uh in this plan that you've been hearing about today particularly grateful to have students here participating in this process i think that is so critically important you didn't cause the problem um we and others did and um i appreciate you're being part of the solution and and don't stop you know keep the pressure on every step of the way it is absolutely essential but those ballot questions in two two years ago we're about giving burlington the ability to better chart its own course on climate action and climate justice specifically we supported the burlington uh uh rental weatherization standards and primary renewable heating systems for new construction and today v perg applauds the city's continued progress in this area this is what leadership looks like and we are happy to see it while we may be closer than ever to having statewide energy policy that will move toward a heating sector away from fossil fuels and toward cleaner heating options that are more affordable uh cities like burlington going further and faster this is absolutely critical to that process simply put it helps to have people with the courage and foresight to go first to prove not only that it can be done but that it can be done in a responsible sustainable and just way that focus on just policy is one that makes clean heating technologies available to all residents of burlington including those at lower incomes and that's critically important it's also consistent with the advisory question that darin mentioned uh as well question seven in 2021 uh that directed the city to look at policies um as we move away from fossil fuels for heating that prioritize burlington's that are by pock or lower income or moderate income heating and cooling buildings as you have heard is a huge source of climate pollution in vermont and in burlington and far too many vermonters continue to struggle to afford the high cost of energy as the state's largest city burlington is playing an outsized role in cutting carbon pollution here in vermont it's great to see the city leading the way and helping vermoners transition to affordable clean alternatives to fossil fuels so thanks again for leadership all well i just want to close by saying i really appreciate all of you being here and being part of this you know this what we've laid out today we are on the cusp of doing but it's going to require a majority of burlingtonians to um support this action support the creation of this new fee on town meeting day and i really appreciate you all being here to show the breath of the coalition that supports this action um i'm going to be very active from now until town meeting day making sure um that every burlingtonian who's tuning into this is really understands um what this important initiative is about um with that i think we're ready to take a few questions if you have something go ahead yeah let me walk you through it so and then it is confusing there's a lot of there's really a number of different policies that are all sort of working together here great um first of all um i think you're i think you may have been with us we're at the burlington electric department a few weeks ago there since 2019 we've had a set of uh incentives financial incentives at the local level which you can now part kind of marry up with state and federal incentives that make moving in this direction and whether with electric vehicles or a whole range of devices and buildings better and that's it is important to understand that nothing that is established and that's there and um any building owner who's considering electrifying their building or building a new building all that burlington electric department wants to work closely with those building owners to make sure they're maximizing those incentives we also do have an existing policy that does already have a certain amount of requirements in it for new construction regarding primary heating heating sources so there is some regulation that's already on the books that really pushes people pushes builders new construction in the direction of electric heat what is new and what um you know i appreciate the question because i really want this is important for everyone to be clear on we want to go beyond the existing policies and create what we are calling a carbon pollution impact fee to apply to new construction in large buildings 50 thousand feet or more uh that are going through at the time that they are upgrading their systems upgrading heating systems hot water systems and the government buildings if uh town meeting day voters in burlington support the creation of this new fee that will be a new policy that comes out of out of this vote and that will uh be a further rule essentially in place that will require builders that fall into those categories property owners that fall into those categories they will have a choice at the time of um when they when they're making a decision they can either put in place all renewable technologies non-fossil fuel burning technologies and and we will help them financially do that or if for whatever reason it is just not practical or affordable for the specific system that they need to build to to go in the renewable direction the the you know the the electric fossil fuel free direction we then there will be this one time upfront fee that they will be expected to pay please great the city will collect the fees the burlington electric department will collect the well actually i guess the that's why we have bill here bill is going to collect the fees bill word at the department permit inspections and there are three potential uses of the those fees that and it will depend there will be some one option for some property owners will be to have their fee applied um uh within their property to um uh other improvements that reduce their fossil fuel um uh usage and you know darin you could give an example of that if if they don't go that route and the fee is collected by the city then um we will either use it to improve the the the city's vehicle fleet we are trying to electrify the vehicle fleet or and some of the money will go into a fund that will help low income uh burlingtonians move towards electrification themselves so do you want to make sure that's points clear darin that that's that's accurate um you know just a little bit on your prior question so current policy is is renewable primary heating system for new construction but that means there's a lot of uses that are not covered currently you could have a backup fossil fuel system for heating you could have a fossil fuel water heating system fossil fuel cooking uh appliances other appliances could use fossil fuel so this proposal is really to address that full suite of building energy use uh and go beyond what we currently have which is just for the primary heating system and and to give an example if the fee was used by an existing building to make a mission reduction improvements uh if they were to happen they could do things like maybe they would put in electric lawn equipment for their building or maybe they would put in electric vehicle charging stations or make other improvements to the energy efficiency of the building anything that would really reduce fossil fuel use on site is something that i think we would be interested in in helping to support so it's a great question um i think what we're seeing with a lot of the electric technologies particularly when we think about heating um is it's really only in the last decade that heat pump technology has been used for cold climates like vermont and what we're seeing is the cost of that technology is becoming more affordable and there's more options uh so we have you know mini split heat pumps that are going in a lot of residential homes and we have rooftop variable refrigerant flow heat pumps that can be used for commercial buildings we have air to water heat pumps which is an emerging technology we have geothermal or ground source heat pumps which is what we have here at hula and i think when you're building new in particular before you make the decision to connect to a fossil fuel system to invest in that infrastructure what we're showing is that it can be very cost competitive from an upfront capital perspective to invest in an electric or renewable heating system as opposed to a fossil fuel heating system and then more recently we've seen that the price to operate the electric or renewable system is becoming very very cost competitive with natural gas or with fossil fuels so i think the dynamic really has shifted um and when we think about electric heat we have to make sure we're not talking about the old resistance electric heat that was in buildings in the 70s and 80s and was not as efficient as heat pump technology because that would be expensive to operate so what we're talking about is really the newer more efficient cold climate heat pump technologies yeah and and i think we can um you know we have the slides that we presented the slides at the end and we'll make sure that you have linked to them as well really do show kind of and it shows with the carbon fee and without the carbon fee what the fossil fuel system cost is relative to heat pump systems geothermal systems both to operate and to install and i think what we're seeing is is really that there is a cost competitive approach and really new construction is a great opportunity because again you're putting in a new building you're connecting to new systems that's a really important decision because you're making a 20 to 25 year decision right then what kind of system are you going to have is it going to be using fossil fuels or is it going to be renewable and i think we need to make sure that as many buildings that are going in are using renewable as possible because we have a vicious 2030 goal we can't reach it if buildings are continuing to add fossil fuel systems that's part of the the policy approach here's here's one of the slides for example just want to add one thing on this point i mean i like your your question i think a lot of people do assume that electric technologies are much more expensive you know because not that long ago they were when you know if you were looking at an electric car a few years ago uh you know you had to be willing to pay a very substantial premium in order to go with an electric vehicle as the last press conference showed we're now in a situation where you can get a new car with all the incentives that are involved you can get you know a brand new chevy bolt for you know if you're living in burlington and using all the incentives available to you right now with the way the regulations are right now you can get a car for $15,000 the these kind of price shifts and changes in public policy that change the cost to the end user are are happening all the time they're moving very quickly they're changing frequently and you know to take another example you look at the cost of solar 10 years ago you know there's been a 90 reduction in the cost of solar just over just a decade something 99 percent if you go back a few more decades since then so i one of the things i like about this new policy i think is important about the policy is it ensures that as builders of new construction large building owners you know in general people developers builders who have some capacity and some sophistication and financial analysis ensures that they are stopping analyzing what the costs of the technologies are today to electrify and i think in many cases people are going to be surprised by how competitive it is the the fee kind of demands that people take that analysis take that step and check it out in the there are still situations where electric technologies are a lot more expensive and in those situations which are getting less and less all the time but in those situations when it one another thing that i like and i think is important about this policy is it has flexibility in it it says okay in those situations where it really is dramatically more expensive to use electric technology you can use the conventional system and pay a modest fee to do that and that fee will be used to have other environmental benefits so i you know i think this is there are places that have just gone and sort of banned fossil fuel infrastructure outright i actually think this is a more pragmatic way to move forward on climate policy than some of those other extreme policies thank you i just wanted to also add that there is of course a real cost associated with burning fossil fuels for heating and and everybody here has kind of alluded to that as well and this is just one way of trying to actually capture it because those costs are are not currently paid when you are buying fossil fuel to heat your home or to get around in a vehicle but this is one way to try to begin to internalize some of those costs to make them more fair and honest honestly to to then help to drive a decision making process that would undoubtedly move people away from those polluting dangerous and indeed expensive fossil fuels so thanks so one of the interesting things here when we're thinking about new construction is there might be a particular system that's as the mayor just described that might be really you know not a good example where where the technology wasn't there and where somebody chooses to pay the fee but it's going to apply a new construction to all the systems so it may be that you you are able to do it for your heating system but maybe you're not able to do it for an appliance and so you could pay the fee just on that portion of the you know of the building that's using the fossil fuel just that system and the rest of the systems could be mitigated so you have every incentive in every decision essentially to go with renewable if you're able to and every economic incentive to go renewable and then if you find a scenario where it doesn't make sense then you have the ability as the mayor just laid out to pay the fee and go with a conventional system but the idea is it's very much applies to every kind of decision within the building it's not a all-or-nothing proposition yeah and I think we still have Christina and Katie and I might ask if they want to chime in on this we really did with our report was look at other cold climate cities that are taking steps that are looking at using carbon pricing and I think we mentioned New York and Denver and Boston that all are either looking at carbon fees and or performance standards and so it's really helpful to have a cold climate city to compare ourselves to and I think you know another city that's doing some things along the same type of scale that we are is Ann Arbor Michigan we had the first net zero 2030 goal and I think they've got the second one as far as I'm aware in the country so we've had some communication with them and I know that the mayor through both the rewiring America mayors for electrification and other mayors groups mayors climate coalitions has communications with a variety of cities but maybe I'd ask if I don't know if Christina or Katie if you can place Burlington within the context of some of the other communities that are working on this yeah as I mentioned the I currently work with 12 cities across the country but I would say that you know Burlington is in our you know ambitious kind of leading co-work that are tackling policies for existing buildings a lot of our cities have already passed policies in new construction because as it's been mentioned we have found that building all electric is cost comparable to building with conventional and so now they're tackling the much more difficult cohort of existing buildings and so yeah Burlington is up there work with you know New York City Denver and Boston who have passed similar policies addressing those buildings and we think you know a lot of those for for their residents in existing buildings to start experiencing the benefits of electrification. Thank you. I think Christina answered that well I'll just add you know part of BEI's role in Burlington is to make sure that we're pulling lessons learned from across cities so we bring in tons of things like community engagement and how to equip or spend the funds once Burlington has funds from the fees so they're the things that are true as good practices across all cities but then this policy definitely mutated to the the local context of Burlington and what makes sense for Burlington buildings your climate and what we heard from stakeholders so that's why this is pretty unique even though it's kind of in the same basket as other cities approaches. Thank you Christina. Thank you Katie. What I love about Vermont and Burlington is that organically here in Vermont and it's I think one of our strengths as a culture that we're able to move through on these initiatives and because we're small I think that that helps us but I think it's also the culture of Vermont it's one of our marketable culture points and the culture of Burlington. We totally agree we see it that way we see this electrification effort to drive to get to net zero is following in decades of leadership that the city of Burlington the Burlington Electric Department has shown first weatherizing then moving towards renewables we're the first city in the country to source a hundred percent of our electricity from renewable sources in 2014 and this is sort of the third big chapter in that and it's it's it's very I think it's a great part of the Burlington story and I think if we can succeed at this it will have broader implications for other communities. Sam did you have a question? Great. Yeah I mean I've I learned a lot obviously from that program it's really unique experience to learn about the city both by being in the city. I think one of the biggest things I've learned I didn't really know anything about Burlington Electric at all I just assumed it was like everywhere else in the country so yeah I guess one of the big things I've learned is that all of our electric is sourced responsibly and sustainably and that there are I guess I also learned that there are so many people working really hard to improve continuously so much. Yeah I definitely agree I think I think that I've learned is just like how important it is to when trying to solve big problems not shy away from working with each other I think people's opinions and versatility is a great opportunity and it's really important to rely on each other and I think that that's like something we should use in when like thinking about combating climate changes that we can't work alone we have to work together and I think that they really taught me that well. Yeah a huge takeaway was definitely working with a lot of community partners like Jen Green who is here and we definitely got to meet with a ton of different people to like really dive into issues and like I'm glad of everyone's asking questions because like in the program that we did we had the opportunity to really like dive deeper into like what does this mean for lower income communities and like what does this mean for like different households and stuff and so I think this program really taught me how to like combine like different issues as well like environmental justice as well like bringing that into all aspects of Burlington. What would your message be to maybe kids your age as it pertains to the importance of you know being at zero and trying to be more sustainable on I guess my big message would be that you may not think that you have much of a voice or you can do much but you really you really can um there are opportunities like this obviously to talk and voice your opinion and even smaller stuff as well helps even like learning about it and talking to your parents and things is really everything helps and it's good to start sooner rather than later. Yeah I definitely agree I just think that it's really hard to get not not to get caught up in like an overwhelming amount of climate anxiety and nervousness because it's a really it's big it's really big and it's really scary and I think it's hard to not just put it aside and be like well that's a different issue and like not just kind of give up but I think there's hope and I think relying on hope is really important and knowing that it's a really really strong emotion. I definitely agree with Finley and Shenoa and I'd also like to bring up that like someone said like it is an our fault that like the climate is like this but it will be in the future and I think we have to continue to take responsibility for all that we do to affect the climate and also take accountability to change. Yeah thank you. Awesome well said guys. The College and Lake sorry the City and Lake semester program is really a great Berlin High School class it's uh I personally haven't got to meet with you guys before this but many other semesters I have had a chance to sit down with other students that have come through the program. I know you guys it's great to hear you're working with Jen Green we really try to work closely with the program for exactly this reason thank you for laying that all out and I love the idea that you should be talking to your parents about this. My parents now have solar panels on there on there and cold climate heat pumps from those conversations they can be really make a big impact. Patrick so we did lay out very explicit numerical goals we on an annual basis do you give updates on them we're coming up on the annual update what can we say about it? Yeah um yeah we have had uh so 2018 was the baseline for the net zero roadmap and we had updates based on the 2019 2020 and 2021 data so far we expect to be able to report 2022 sometime in April and we work with Synapse which is the partner organization that helped us put the roadmap together what we have so far relative to 2018 when we're looking at thermal fossil fuel use and ground transportation which are the two sectors that we are tracking and are the bulk of the city's emissions and really the two largest sources in the state as well is we have about 12 and a half percent reduction in 2021 relative to 2018 it was actually a little bit more in 2020 due to the pandemic reducing vehicle miles traveled we saw a mild rebound in Burlington not as big a rebound as we saw in the rest of the country so we're 12 and a half percent down relative to 2018 which is good news in any scenario and yet still not as much to be on the path to net zero as we need so one of the things that having a net zero 2030 goal does is focuses your mind on putting everything on the table the incentives the policies that we've been talking about here and the one piece I would mention is a lot of the policies that were implemented already the rental weatherization standards the renewable heating ordinance those are just beginning to have an impact on our emissions data because they've just begun to be implemented so we hope to see those have an impact in the next several years this set of policies would also have a significant impact over you know kind of the middle part of the decade as we see more new construction come on we see some buildings go through the permitting process our rough rough estimate is that Burlington electrics incentives can do about 25 percent of the work that we need to get to net zero 2030 so policies like this projects like the district energy project and other big initiatives are going to have to help fill the gap along with support from the state and federal government go ahead thank you so I would say that that's a very incomplete picture when we come to McNeill because with biomass or with wood chips the accounting can't just be what's going up in terms of the stack we have to look at the whole life cycle and the difference for us between fossil fuels and wood particularly local wood like we have with McNeill is with local wood you can manage forest sustainably you can regrow trees you can re sequester carbon and the data we have for Burlington electrics suggests that in the areas where we harvest in Vermont and New York since 2003 we've been adding net tree carbon so we're adding sequestration not losing sequestration with fossil fuels you're taking carbon that's been stored geologically for millions of years putting it in the atmosphere with no plan to ever re sequester it there's no commercial carbon capture and sequestration technology that I'm aware of for coal plants or gas plants or oil with wood chips we have the opportunity if we are sustainable and we have four foresters at McNeill that work on this every day to make sure that we're managing our properties sustainably we can have a life cycle that is beneficial and I think that's a critical piece and for the state of Vermont looking at modern wood advanced wood heating which can be very efficient is an option for a number of households in terms of getting off of fossil fuels I think in Burlington we have very very little in the way of wood heating for the residential scale I think most households are on natural gas or looking at heat pumps so we don't really have a lot of it here we don't necessarily expect to have a lot of wood heating in Burlington but it is an option among many options for buildings to look at and that's part of the policy is to make sure if it's renewable we can include it in the policy I think I've already shared it with you but it's in our it's publicly available it's in our IRP from 2020 if you go to the Burlington Electric website go to the forms and reports page look at our 2020 integrated resource plan there is an appendices and on page 88 is data from the innovative natural resource solutions group which suggests that since 2003 in the forest in New York and Vermont we have been adding net tree carbon that's a third-party analysis so I want to question over here go ahead go ahead I am I am hopeful the the Burlington voters have already weighed in on this concept once and approximately 65% of voters voted yes once there was and and we had a lot of discussion in the lead up to that vote that we were likely to take the policy in this direction so this isn't a wholly new conversation this what is different now is that we've worked out the details of how how the policy is going to work and but you know Burlington voters again and again have shown the support that Burlington voters again and again have said they want us moving aggressively in this direction a number of ways the most recent ballot initiative on this was just just a year ago right there and where we went for the net zero revenue bonds and approximately 70% of the voters supported that so we we think that there is strong support for climate action at the local level in Burlington and people have a chance to demonstrate that starting in just a just three weeks here it's not a question over here go ahead yeah it's a great question and I think Bill was trying to communicate that to agree this involves you know we already have a robust permitting system to agree that this is sort of an additional step in the permitting system his team is going to be there be as customer friendly and supportive as possible in that part of it we have seen the industry adopting these technologies very rapidly already between what's required between the incentives and what's required out of the various the energy codes and then the primary heat regulation where are you put in place at this point you know we I don't think we are seeing real workforce shortages you know we had a different policy let's say with the we have a requirement that existing buildings bring themselves up to energy code and there we had a real concern about the specialized workforce being there to do that kind of air sealing and insulation and just the size of that industry being able to meet all of these apartments that need to be upgraded and so there we really phased in the policy there is some aspect to this policy there's one specific piece that gets phased in because of our more because we're we're looking forward to the technology in a specific area what is the water heating the water heating multifamily building so multifamily hot water heating the technology is not quite there yet to be competitive on the electric side so we're giving that that doesn't get kick in for a couple extra years beyond that we think the industry can can work start working with this policy starting in 24 as long as you know it's communicated well and they have some time to get to ramp up to it hey so yeah three three categories all new buildings then existing buildings but only existing buildings that are bigger than 50,000 square feet and in that with that category it's not that all existing buildings have to go out and do all this work right away it's at the time when they are replacing their existing systems that's when the requirement kicks in so boiler needs to be replaced that's when that's when there would be they would need to do analysis of are they going to put in a conventional system and pay a fee or are they going to put in the electric option and then the third category is city buildings so for almost all the policy kicks in at the beginning of 2024 there that like I was just saying a moment ago multifamily so you know apartment buildings with multiple households living in apartments the hot water system for for for those types of buildings the requirement would not get started until 2026 the beginning of 2026 okay great appreciate all the questions it's great that you all came out so grateful again to all of you for being part of this and for for standing with us at this important moment and look forward to talking to everyone a lot more between now and time any day thank you