 But one area which we are not now looking at, it directed energy weapon. They know aircraft nothing, you have a surface to ground, you have a very intense laser beam or you have electromagnetic pulse. So with that you are now able to now destroy the aircraft. Only thing is these are very heavy, it cannot be carried on a fighter, it cannot even be carried on a bomber, but lot of work is going on whereby they want to reduce the size of these fellows to a level where at least in a bigger craft it can be carried. So they are going to be the future threat, okay. So let us see, we have lots of air superiority fighters, I talk, there are lot of missiles or air tier missiles, okay, very stuff, there is huge number of airborne weapons and sometimes we do not teach about weapons to in our classes, but an aircraft is as good as the weapon it carries, okay. So you must have a feel of what kind of weapons we are doing, what kind of radars we are carrying, okay, that is what it is and there are two things that happens. This is what I thought you should know because it determines the kind of aircraft you know. There are what you call tail aspect weapons, that means the infrared missiles what you should have, they will sense infrared signature, the hotter the what you call the surface or the hottest part in the engine, okay. So from rear only they were able to catch them, okay. So those days the aircraft will go rear of the adversaries aircraft and fire the infrared missile, but later on the missiles become so good that even a 30, 40 degrees temperature difference they are able to detect. Then they come to what you call all aspect weapons, that means from any direction they are able to fire. Okay, now all the missiles what we are talking, they all are all aspects, okay. There are two types one called onboard side weapons and onboard side weapons. So you have to do a board side, what you call there to do this kind earlier, but now they are all onboard side, my board side you can get, but I can fire on the other direction, okay. So you can see not only the weapons are now come to such a level, you are able to do all aspect, you are able to see from a distance. So the old close combat or dog fight is only now left to the dogs, okay. No fighters are required to do any dog fights, okay. That is the kind of thing because weapons and radars plus jammers, these electronics, these three fellows have changed the way we fight a war, okay. And unmanned aircraft have changed the way whether the man is going to be inside or eating sandwich and fighting the war, so that is what it is, okay. So you see surface to air missile, for example Akhas, it is a beautiful missile, Akhas 1, Akhas 2 and all that surface to air missile, multi barrel, multi thing, very, very active. Suddenly from today the army, navy, air force, not only India, all around us, they are asking for this missile. This is what our friends and D.I.D.L. has developed and the need is now in thousands, okay. In fact there are at least two dozen industries have been established just to make this missile. So that is the kind of scenario where we are. Do we sell Akhas? I mean do we sell missiles? Do we? Do we sell missiles to the country? They are all thinking. You see the government is now thinking that they can certainly sell to some of the friendly countries, okay. They are thinking. They are very much in consideration. Only our army, air force, navy says, amkodo, before you give to others. See that is where we have a problem of what it has, scaling up. See it is one thing to make some more 20 missiles per year and do trials and all. Suddenly the trials are successful and the 20 should become 200, 200 should become 2000, 2000 should become 20,000. Can I scale it up? That is the thing. They are manufacturing technology. I have not talked about that. How do I scale up? The way you design, design for manufacturing, that is what we have to do. So that I can scale it up. The great thing about the Americans during the Second World War was they were able to scale up to such a level that a day an aircraft was coming out. That a day they were making files. Simple aircraft, no doubt, but that was the kind of scale. Europe could not do that, okay. So that is how the dominance came from that, okay. This is the kind of kill zone what you call. With each what you call missile, there are all the types of missiles we are talking about. Trishula I have given here, okay. This is the type. This is the zone. Altitude. This range in this area, they are protecting your area, okay. Beyond that only any aircraft can enter. You need to know what these kind of things are. Now let us see this fellow. What are the earlier requirements they are evaluating? First, high speed Vmax and climb rate previously viewed as dominant requirement because any aircraft used to come at high altitude. You go up like mixed into an aircraft and all, you climb up as fast as possible and fast you reach there and intercept him. So that was the character. Speed, okay, rate of climb. These are the kind of things which are there. Now of course, then we talked about dogfights, air-to-air combat, close combat what you call. There you have to high sustain the maneuverability for a dogfight because you have to sustain yourself some 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes and I used to say, the fellow who is able to sustain for a longer time is able to win the war because you take longer time and you are going behind the enemy. You are firing the missile. Until you go behind him, you can't fire. That will also trying to go behind you. The one who can stay longer and fire. Then what happened the situation? I don't know how to go behind. If I can point my missile towards him for few seconds then the missile sensor you should lock up. Until you lock on, I must hold him. Then it's over. That is what we have to do. So it's a change. Then what you are talking about rapid change between offense and defense you go on changing the positions and enhance the instantaneous maneuverability. Suddenly I must be able to turn without getting into a post start. I must point for just that couple of seconds. If I am able to do, I wonder what? Sustain supersonic. Now they are talking about can I go at such a high speed so that before the enemy radar can detect, identify and say I am the enemy. You are asking that question, am I the enemy. That will take one second, half a second. But before that happens my supersonic aircraft has escaped and stealth. One is I am strong, stealthy. I am supersonic. So what happened? I am detected. Once let us say that fellow also is capital detecting. By the time he detected my speed is so high I left that place. I damaged it and disappeared. D and D. So that is what happens. So now what we are talking, 50th generation fighter what we have to do. They are talking of supersonic cruise and stealth. These are the kind of things. This is what we are calling about. Supersonic cruise without afterburner. Supersonic cruise means afterburner on means what will happen. The signatures will increase. Plus the ambulance will come down. That is what we are talking about. So that means engine technology. No longer we are talking about aircraft. We are talking about engine. So what we are talking, what are the uncertainties? Positive or long range identification, warning and control in high density. The question what you are asking. So many fighters are there. So many helicopters are there. So many fellows are there. Who is my friend? Who is my enemy? I do not know. How do I know that? While I am telling information friend and foe good concept being used for last 50 years but still it has its limitations. Somebody can jam that fellow. So far it is not easy. See jamming bandwidth is high you can easily jam. If the bandwidth is very low it is difficult to jam. The issues are there but they are the problem. They are the real problems what we are talking. So before short range sensors, short range, limited aspect weapons, visual identification, low lethality, simple impact of numbers. Now long range, long range identification, all aspect mission, improved lethality weapons, multi bogie environment and complex numbers. That is what we are talking about. So normally this is what you all have been talking about. We are told if thrust weight ratio is high for an aircraft, it will have very good rate of climb, it can ink speed, what you call rate of acceleration will be good and so they should be there. But when I want a very high thrust weight ratio then you have other limitations you have to have engine weight will increase how do you do that? These are the kind of technological problem. But this is what a good guidance. Then we are talking about sustained turn rate. So there used to be very high turn rates earlier then when they have come down but now they have all reached a plateau. Nobody is going beyond this. Nobody is talking because all aspect missiles and all in fact this is no longer such a big thing. Now what is important is this fellow. For a fighter what you call instant angle I must be able to turn fast for that short period even if I lost my speed or my height but I am able to turn and point my missile towards the adversary for that short few seconds. So this becomes an important part. But this is something to do with the aircraft characteristics. The previous one is an aircraft plus an engine. But here is purely aircraft. So that is what is important. Then I have talked about rate of climb. Now you can see for last 30 years rate of climb has not increased. There is no longer nobody is going to 40,000 feet altitude interceptor. There is nobody to interceptor. Everybody is doing that. And if he is coming there he has told you can't even detect him. So that is the situation. So now I talk about threats talk about weapons, talk about radar talk about aircraft and talk about that. How do I put them all together? How do I know which combination is the right thing? Can't see the best of everything. Not possible. It is so prohibitive expensive. Technology may not be available with you. So you have to have that. So what we are talking is properly develop a survival design of the aircraft that enables it to effectively conduct assigned missions. The specific threats to the aircraft must be determined. As well as the condition that exists at the time of the encounter you should be able to determine. The determination referred to as mission threat analysis. The typical tasks are define each operational mode required by the specified mission defined operational mode. Analyze the aircraft's operational modes and threats and determine the encounter conditions. And then the required unconscious will be used as basis for the survival assessment trade-off studies before the design is finalized. This is the key point. For the transport aircraft only market you are looking at. Here you are looking at threat. Of course there are also threats from competition. But this is a evolving threat, this is a threat analysis. That's what I thought in my talk today. I want to bring to your notions. Typical as I mentioned this is the way the combat is done. Any book you see will show you that. This is the flight part of a closer support aircraft. These are the kind of scenarios. See now what happens the whole battle area is full of vertical surface to the weapon tanks and all those kind of things. That way I have to wear through that battle. Now what you call the forward edge of the battle I showed you that line that is called the forward edge of the battle. FIBA we call it. It dropped down aircraft they are there dropped down into a valley to take advantage of terrain masking. I mentioned to you a self-proper radar they are directed a system is in the vicinity it detects the aircraft scanning radar he will detect you. The observer inside that vehicle looks approaching the aircraft through an optical tracker and identify aircraft as enemy optical he has done there is no other way he has done. In this case this radar is then switched to the target tracking mode. Meanwhile the radar warning we showed in the aircraft detected the scanning signal from the attack done radar and alerted the pilot to the type location and status of the threat the aircraft fellow is knowing. The pilot immediately ejects chaffs attempts to break the lock of the manoring the aircraft there is some chaff what you call moment he throws it that increase the signature radar infrared signal so much that that fellow will be directed towards that okay the radar receiver sees the chaff and starts to track it rather than the aircraft. This is what I am thinking that fellow can say the track is going too slow the chaff is going too slow he will say this is not there this is not there you will detect this then you have to do which is having with phonum propulsion system so that fellow will move faster the entire life is there okay the encounter we can I was talking as a this is a typical mission how in a threat what happens I am just trying you can read through it there so let us see the characters of the aircraft weapon system what we are talking is a study the scenario reveals the ability of the aircraft weapon system to accomplish ascent as dependent upon what number availability of weapon system for the mission it should available is not easily being maintained it should be available for you to fly aircraft performance capabilities and handling qualities sometimes the handling qualities are not good the pilot gets fatigued too fast then you cannot fight a war okay then target acquisition capability we discussed the type effect number of weapons carried the command control coming at the supporting system available the aircraft signatures and counter measures applied okay those chaff is a counter measure okay signature the tactics used in the terrain and weather conditions ability to the aircraft to take a hit and survive okay with all that you got a hit let us see you are still survive okay to fight for another day that also is an important thing to look at these are all the things we have to look okay then you are so what are the things you are talking we are talking about availability number of systems acquired reliability of the system terrain time between sorties this is what determines the availability the second solution performance we are familiar combat radius dash speed agility lighter push speed maneuverability payload all are the performance then third is the handling qualities I mentioned to you is important because otherwise you will get fatigued about the availability I remember my incident during this on the battle but it could not fly in the night it did not have the blind man that is what I used to see we used to have we still have an aircraft called Jaguar it does not have a radar inside we call it as Mabartha aircraft that means after it is daylight with the bigel the war starts evening with the bigel war starts Jaguar has been designed for Mabartha time I told you why we bought that aircraft handling qualities is another thing then you talk about targets target acquisition navigation and targeting visual field of view from the cockpit onboard radars for what we are looking infrared signal we should be able to detect the signal radar is only electromagnetic whereas infrared how do you do there are floods we have to do the flight vectoring system for an 8-band platform bomb suppose you are an Avax fellow he is seen from the top he will say you move like this and come here he is a great advantage for you and of course formatted controller there is a formatted controller fellow he is sitting there he will tell you you come here and bomb here so that is what they call and weapons we have discussed it enough about weapons you have missiles, you have guns you have rockets each has a particular range and effectiveness olden days 1960s people thought I have got infrared missile I have got missile what is the need for gun in fact the initial MiG-21 aircraft which were you came to India also Russian had no gun but then in 65 hour our fellow found the gun with the fellow who has really saved the Nat aircraft so we quickly modified the aircraft and put a gun underneath now gun is something you always have whether you are not but it must be there it is a kind of a make the pilot feel there is something MiG-21 has a very good cannon now it is a powerful cannon but people now ask what is the use of carrying this 250 kilograms of dead weight because if you are fighting the war you are seeing the enemy 100 kilometers away missile is doing 50 kilometers away what for this fellow is there but that is the kind of a signal and supporting systems are mentioned command communication, fighter squad threat suppression, stand up jamming target locators and signature and counter measures very very critical fellows and counter measures this is the kind of things your signatures radar, IR, visual audio and counter measures warning resources are same these jammers and all, all tactics you may have the best aircraft but if you do not have the right tactics you fall through so that is what is there the above character is strongly influenced susceptibility of an aircraft this is what we call as susceptibility so normally what we do measure of mission success mom, here also mom is there without mom you can't manage measure of mission success is called as into MAM this is a really to measure the ability of the aircraft to accomplish objectives in the presence of threat without the constituent threat effects you are not worried about if the threat what it will damage you will do then as see this threat effect survival rate defined in the ratio return to the number of aircraft launch you have send 20 fellow and 2 are returned that is what I have this parameter gives the defensive view of the mission the more survival the aircraft is closer it is to unity more survival means it is fully survival means it is 1 so if G is the mission I want to destroy a particular area so many dumps, so many aircraft so many things so then what are the number of aircraft in order to accomplish the mission that is really the number so G to accomplish the mission is the number of aircraft multiplied by mom so this is the kind of it is a very simplistic analysis I am showing it is so simple so that is the way you do a detailed what you call threat analysis and then identify what type of aircraft if I have X aircraft how many such aircraft I must have to support such an aircraft what kind of what you call the surface to a missile system or air to air or other this is a complete what you call a system it is not even a system it is a system of systems this is what we need to do that and then only after that you are able to determine that means I am looking at threat threat, tactics, technology okay geopolitical environment fighting is not independent because if he is a friend even if you have got very good aircraft it does not matter to me but if he is adversely likely adversely then I have to also be a geopolitical the industrial capacity and capability I have developed an aircraft I have not got an aircraft I know the design, I have tested it and also having developed an aircraft I must now think about the next generation aircraft you continuously you go on improve that one then what are your goals and ambitions do you want to be a world power do you want to be a regional power or do you want to save your skin what are your goals, what are your rights depending on that you determine how many aircraft, type of aircraft how you do these are the kind of things what you are going to do okay thank you 10 minutes we have 10 minutes if any other question if I am capable of answering some of these points with respect to the pages what kind of stealth features have been provided see basically it is a small aircraft it has 90% surface area is composites so what happened everything else being equal a composite with a better characteristics is there and smaller craft like an art very smaller craft same performance but smaller craft you have small aircraft and small signature that is the second thing the third thing is we have what you call coatings what you call the canopy and all are coated with some coatings whereby they prevent if something falls down it will observe that energy it does not allow that to happen okay third you can also put some what you call the radar absorption rams they call radar absorption materials they have been developed okay that means what you call high spot what you call hot spots you call if you see the shape of the aircraft it does not have any tail does not have any canada what happens in this infrared signature any 90 degrees angle it will be generating huge amount of signature okay now if I cannot that means I added a surface with the fuselage generates huge signature I do not have if you have a tail also horizontal tail that also will generate we do not have so that means those things who generate this extra signature they have been eliminated thereby the signature comes down okay small size second is this one third is you are able to reduce the number of flying surfaces okay because they add to their signature so you are trying to bring up plus you also can add certain amount of radar absorption materials thereby you can further bring down that it is not a stealth aircraft it is a tactical aircraft but that is what you are now thinking about next generation fighter but in a tactical warfare where you are talking about distances of about 2 to 300 kilometers around the border okay maximum you use LCA for the introduction little deeper to prevent enemy supplies coming there what do you do destroy the bridges destroy the vehicles coming that kind of introduction plus a tactical support to your army or your friendly territory okay just around the border forward edge of the border you do that kind of you are not going deep into it because it is a small aircraft it is not meant to be that for deeper strike today you use Su-30 that is the kind of something like 3 and half times the size of LCA okay so you have what you call a light aircraft and a heavy aircraft okay LCA is a light aircraft that is it I would ask about the Redfield in India right now Rafal we have Tejas now we have Su-30 okay it is a good question I think we do not need it it is a good question you know why you call it a good question I really do not know why you are buying that unless we love French people we want French industries to prosper Indians are very good they want to see the whole world to be prosperous except themselves they want British to be prosperous Americans to be prosperous Russians to be prosperous we do not want to discriminate anybody everybody should be prosperous except ourselves what are you doing you rightly said I have a light aircraft I have a Su-30 heavy aircraft I have a combination of these two for different missions that is all I do not need anything else what we should put effort is how to produce more of them how to increase the indigenous content so that more and more things are done within the country I think that is exactly what is required somebody asked me why do not you write an article on that subject so somebody also reminded me you are no longer in the government you can write but your question is correct this is the right thing we do not need it just do not need it at all but we have to produce more else yes this is a very interesting story I will tell you another story for this you have another two minutes for the stories those days a few years back maybe 10 to 11 years back we used to have in times of India they have on the left and the right on the top some they used to have one more MiG 21 has fallen down they used to write there one more video maker they accept showing the video everything else they have done then what happened they said our pilots are not getting trained no nicks are falling down then they said what do we do train the pilots we have to buy a hawk aircraft so we place an order on the hawk aircraft after buying placing order suddenly times of India you never see anything telling one more MiG is falling down that means this technology has gone to such a level that after placing an order the accident rate has come down it is written I hope the answer is clear when I fly more I have 600 MiGs if I fly more I will have more accidents there is a story about Bangalore the commissioner of police said the Bangalore traffic accidents has come down he said what great things you have done simple Bangalore traffic is so heavy a vehicle cannot move it is like an accident it is like that story if you fly the aircraft you will have an accident naturally you will have an accident naturally one day or other you will have an accident but the rate of accidents are not increasing only thing is the subscription times of India by that fellow advertising money has come down no longer is paying money to write that one otherwise if the place an order like telling a place an order on super computer your CFD codes have now started working by placing an order that is right that is the way we have what you call rested interests trying to influence the thinking of the people MiG-21 is one of the finest aircraft ever designed anywhere in the world unique design the beautiful aircraft of course it is old aircraft I am not telling that because the old grandmother you hold I am not telling that but it is a beautiful aircraft how suddenly it become a video maker as if videos are in short supply see what I am telling is there is a subtle influencing of our mind telling that somebody you know when we flew the LCA in 2001 4th January we bought things some air marshal we bought all electronic items from Sweden all the fellows why I should buy from Sweden man why should I buy but that is what is right the idea I used to tell no no nothing indigenous in this I have bought it now it is all advertisement you know leave the rest sell out deal everybody tell so that is the mindset what I am telling is sometimes we do not think through we get carried away by this subtle propaganda when the LCA flew and within one month or so there was an air show in Bangalore our 4th flight was in an air show you do not fly an aircraft in an air show there are thousands of people unless you are sure about the safety of the aircraft so there was a British what you call BAE systems fellow who was sitting and he says I will ask them order for 200 aircraft he said he says always we would have bought from UK no there are no better countries than us so that is what happens that is what I am telling never get carried away I have a scientific looking at things look at I have to have 35 there is no meaning that is why you need to do a threaten my idea of agreeing to give a talk to say Panti is not only to bore you but also to tell you is a threat what you have to see yes sir needs a better why do I need here I have two adversaries immediately is breathing down my neck is on west side and at a distance breathing is on the east side look at it and plan your strategy plan your aircraft plan your tactics that is what we should do do not get sway away I hope my example has helped you how much do we use satellite technology in the quite a lot because today all navigation is satellite based navigation and in fact in future we have that Gagan called wide area argumentation system as a result today you can have all weather takeoff and landing capability precision navigation what you call it precision navigation land without in all weather conditions we use GPS systems we use but now India is developing what you call IRNSS Indian remote navigation system in this whole zone that fellow will replace the GPS so now you can what you call home on to that fellow wide area argumentation system supported by IRNSS will make her independent as on today you are still using GPS and or you use what you call GLONASS that is the kind of interestingly the best thing is the receiver GPS receiver made in the world is some small company sitting in Bangalore and he supplies all over the world that is the fellow he is supplying so also thing you may not know but something interesting is happening thank you