 American Issues Take Two, I'm Jay Fidel. My co-host is Tim Appichella, our special guest today, Jeffrey Portnoy, and we're going to talk about what will happen after the midterm elections. What kind of a bis, if any, are we going to fall into? Can we have going forward? Can we have orderly transfers of power? Is it likely or unlikely? What kind of a Rupakon are we crossing next Tuesday? And I have a lot of points I like to make, but I don't want to make them until I hear from you guys. So, Tim, let's talk to you first. What kind of situation are we going to have after the election? Well, Jay, that's a, that's a really tough question because there's so many contingencies that we have to consider. First off, how long is it going to take for us to get the final election results? I don't think this, this doesn't happen on election night. And I think like the last 2020 election, we probably won't know final results for at least a day and a half somewhere around there. But you know, this election, we're, we're electing secretaries of state, we're electing governors and House representatives in the Senate. So there's a huge mix of positions that were up for, for renewal or replacement. And so that's such a tough question you're asking, but I would say by and large, by and large, it all depends on the margin of victory. And is it a mandate or is it just a squeaker? If it's a squeaker, it's business as usual, if it's a red wave mandate or a blue wave mandate, which I don't expect that to happen. You know, that would, that would test the waters of how the Biden administration is going to go. He's going to have to soft, you know, soft foot it if it's a red wave. And if the Senate is replaced by Republicans and the House replaced by Republicans, do we have a lame duck session for the next two years? Or to what degree does he capitulate in his agenda and, you know, try to get something done in the last year and a half of his presidency? Jeff, do you think that Biden's speech the other day is going to make a difference on what happens? Well, I'll tell you a little anecdote. Last weekend, I was in Charlotte, North Carolina, visiting a law school buddy of mine, very prominent lawyer in Charlotte, fairly liberal. And he took me to a local establishment for barbecue lunch. And he told me the people that own this place are very right wing. So we may get involved in a little discussion because I want them to vote, they vote for judges in North Carolina. He says, I want to give him a list of judges and tell them that they're just good people, whether they're Republican or Democrat. The interesting thing is the woman came over to the table and they had a little discussion on the judicial recommendations. And then started talking about politics in North Carolina Senate race in which the former Chief Justice is running as a Democrat for the Senate race. And this is the amazing thing. She's obviously very conservative and she volunteered. She said, you know, I voted for Trump the last two times, but I'm tired of him. And so are all my friends. And we are not going to follow him any further on this election steal. And we want him out. We want anybody else who has conservative views but not Trump. I found it fascinating because this is somebody who has been a dedicated Trump supporter up until quite recently. And she volunteered this in the conversation, not that she's she never vote for Biden, by the way, and she's not going to vote for this woman running for the Democratic, you know, running as a Democrat for Senate. But she said, not only would she never vote for Trump again, but wants him out. And this whole steal thing is distracting in her view from all the real problems, crime, inflation, etc. So having said that, you know, who knows, as Tim says, what what's going to happen? I mean, the polls are notoriously wrong. Everybody, as I said, a week ago when we had our show, I'm getting 50 emails a day, we're winning, we're losing, we need money, we need money to keep winning, we're, oh, my God, we're losing now, we need more money. Who has a clue? I think the four Senate races that are considered toss ups, if you believe the polls, and I don't, but the Democrats still have a small lead in three of them, which is all they need, because they'll probably lose one. But who knows? So your question is, will people believe the results? I think they will. In most of the races, I think some of the down races, they won't, like the people running for Secretary of State who are crazed, you know, people who believe the earth is flat. And, you know, I think they'll be challenged after challenge in places like Arizona. If the Democrat holds on, who knows what'll happen in Pennsylvania. And certainly, we know in Georgia, when he's through paying for abortions, he's going to challenge the results. Let me follow up with one thing, Jeff. You think that when we turn around and look back on the midterm elections, we will be able to say they were free and fair. Right now, there's a hundred lawsuits pending by the Republicans claiming the election was not free and fair. And it hasn't happened yet. So what what will this mean? You know, going forward, will people respect? I guess it's the same thing you just talked about. Will people respect the result of these elections? Or are we going to have 100 or two or 300 lawsuits around the country questioning it? I think 30% of the population will not respect the results. Wow. And that's we know that because 30% of the people don't respect the results of the last election. So what makes it any different? Of course, it's kind of ironic because the Republicans sweep, there won't be any challenges. So I guess that's the good news. Well, what's the sweep? Let me let me ask you, Tim. You know, we have a divided country now. And I suppose I could I could ask you whether there's any chance following the election that we will have a less divided country. It's more likely it seems that we'll have a greater divided country. But people say a lot of people say, hey, all we got to do is sit down and talk with the other side. If we could only talk with the other side and get out out of our respective bubbles, you know, we could we could come together, Trump or no Trump, especially if no Trump, like the woman. But query, is that possible in the current environment of the country, that we could sit and talk and talk nice and negotiate our, you know, differences of position? Or is that just not likely after this election? It's possible if you keep politics out of the equation. If you're going to bring a casserole to your neighbor and say, can we sit down and enjoy this bowl of casserole? Sure. That's, you know, that's the old Winston Welch's solution. And it's not a bad one. Get back to basics of being a good neighbor. Get back to the basics of being a good friend. But if you're going to bring politics into the mix, then don't expect much. It's going to be worse. It's going to question is going to be worse, because the Republicans will have the house. And they'll start impeachment proceedings and investigations into, you know, Biden's Hunter Biden and Biden himself, they're likely to initiate impeachment. No nominee, you know, they don't have any voice over nominees, but they'll retaliate in everything else. Hopefully, the Democrats will keep the Senate. So you'll have a divided government, which actually we weren't supposed to have it now, but we didn't have enough votes if you're a Democrat. It's going to be a lot worse. I mean, how could anybody think differently? Just look at this Pelosi say, yeah, and the Republican reaction to this, it's been unbelievable, blaming the Democrats for crime, rather than an attempt to kidnap and maybe assassinate the speaker of the house. I mean, this country is so bitterly divided, and there is no hope in sight. And I just finished a book by a guy who used to work for Fox, blaming the media 350 pages for dividing the nation along with course, the internet. And he's absolutely right. I agree. He says, you know, people watch CNN and MSNBC because they want to hear what they have to say and they believe it. People watch Fox because they know Fox is going to say what they want to hear. There's nobody in the middle. Nobody. And then you get to the internet. And we all know what's going on there. I mean, it's brutal. So no, Jay, I'm sorry. I think November 7th will bring a darkening of what's already storm clouds. To my tap into that, I want I want to agree wholeheartedly with that, that comment that the media has really polarized this nation. You know, I've said 100,000 times on various shows, we need to have a firewall between the reporting of news versus editorial and commentary. I'll say it again. So they have divided this country. And you're and Jeff's absolutely right that it's been nothing but to confirm they're already held beliefs. So it's just a reconformation of what they want to hear. But here's the deal. When does that stop? And I know, Jeff, that you're, you know, a strong, strong advocate for First Amendment rights. But I guess the question is, to what point do guardrails go in place when mega GOP start putting out these, for lack of a better term fought was against Democrat politicians. And, you know, we heard Marjorie Taylor Greene and her ilk, basically putting out videos and shows of shooting and then say, it's time to fire Nancy Pelosi. I mean, these are, this is rhetoric that is inspiring violence for those who have some mentally ill capabilities within themselves. Where are the guard, where are the guardrails, Jeff, on any of that? There aren't any except defamation, and you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. But wait till she becomes speaker of the house, if you think things are bad now. Cheer up, think to be worse. I want to throw one point in here is that we, we a lot of us talk about, you know, the divided nation and all that and the bubbles and, and how we can't come together and we won't be able to negotiate or talk nice to each other and resolve differences and all that. You have to throw one thing in there is that I don't think the Democrats are lying. I think the Republicans, all the way back to Kellyanne Conway, they lie. And so how can it's like trying to negotiate a peace with with Vladimir Putin. You know, he's never going to do it. Jay, Jay, if you had this woman who runs this restaurant that I was just in Charlotte on the show, she would have said, you're lying. The Democrats lie. I mean, you, you know, this is great. I know they do. You say the Republicans lie and this woman running the restaurant in Charlotte says, the Democrats lie. This is like one of those logic logic experiments in the seventh grade. You know, one side says, I'm sorry. Okay, well, maybe maybe Tim didn't. One side says, I lie, and I'm lying about you lying. So who in fact is lying. But I think the three of us, hopefully the three of us can come to the conclusion. There's only one side lying here. And you can't negotiate a reasonable solution with somebody who's lying. Come in with if you come in with that opinion, then you're never going to get to where Tim is talking about mutual, you know, conversation. Well, you know, you can't come in with the fact that everyone I don't agree with is lying. So let's sit down and talk about why you're lying. Let me ask you a historical question, Jeff, you know, in your practice of law for the last time, go wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, go ahead. Practice of law for the last 40 or 50 years. I am sure you have run into other lawyers with whom you deal only in writing with whom you know they're going to take advantage of everything you say and twist everything you say. And you have to put a special watch on them because they're pathological as to the truth. They lie to you, they lie to the client, they lie to the judge, they lie to the jury. There are people like that. And it's very hard to cut a deal with somebody like that. That's the way of humanity. And I think what we've got here is an extension of that same concept that you find, you know, in the in the edge of the practice of law, you know. Anyway, Tim, sorry, go ahead. No, no problems. You know, just watch some of the men in the street interviews in Georgia when either GOP or mega GOP people were interviewed. And they say flat out, we know Herschel Walker's lying. We know he is, but we don't care. We want to flip the Senate. And so when you when you have acknowledgement that the truth doesn't matter, it just what matters is your your side of your team wins the election, and the truth be damned and and and the means to get to your your victory be damned because your team needs to win. I mean, we've come down to that point in our politics. And that's sad. I'm sorry, Tim. Well, that's just a sad statement on on the the condition of our our civic responsibilities and the course of elections. I happen to I guess Biden gave this pretty strident speech yesterday. Finally, you know, firing the cannons about democracy is at stake on November 7th. And then I was playing with my remote because my television wasn't working. And unfortunately, I got Fox and I got Hannity. And I only listened for three minutes as he just ripped Biden apart. I mean, just unbelievable, you know, about the speech and, you know, and and then I put on CNN. And I'm watching Obama talking to a crowd in Georgia. And you can see the difference between Biden and Obama. Forget Hannity. I mean, he's completely, you know, off the rails. That's okay. But you watch the difference. And and and you see why Obama, even though, you know, history may have some other things to say about his presidency, his ability to kind of communicate in a reasoned way. And I compared it to the part of Biden's speech where he was like, you know, he is crazy. I understand that he's finally decided to lay it down. But you talk about divisiveness, you watch Hannity, you watch Biden, and then you watch Obama, you wish the whole world could could talk like Obama to audiences, not that he's swaying any votes. But at least he does it in a way that it's hard to argue that it's divisive. Well, that's what we need. We need strong rational leadership, which we don't have. And I don't think we're likely to have it. And frankly, I don't think that Joe Biden gonna run again. So who knows what's gonna happen. But I want to talk about Obama. You know, when Obama first won, I was traveling, when I was traveling, I saw in the Herald Tribune, the Paris edition of the Herald Tribune, an article that he wrote, what he said was with technology, we don't need we don't need layered voting anymore. We don't need electoral voting. We don't even need representative. We can have everybody in the jurisdiction vote on every issue. And we can, you know, analyze that and make decisions that way. I thought that was way out. But last night, I saw some remarks by Yuval Noah Harari. Remember him? The he's a philosopher and historian in Israel, and he writes in Hebrew, and he's translated into English, and he's really, really good. And he was on a talk show and and he suggested that after the abyss here, we were going to see that the that the flawed Republican Party wasn't a party anymore. We were going to see that the Democrats were not an effective party either. And that government such as it will come to exist in this country will not involve party. Neither of these parties is helping us. And elections through the existing system will no longer be relevant. And maybe it's Obama's technique of having everybody vote, although that can be manipulated to. So I wonder what your thoughts are about that, because we are going to have dramatic profound changes after Tuesday. I'm sure the Republicans are going to do everything they can to screw things up and to take the power. But I also think it's going to mean changes in what the founders designed. Oh, one of the thing that Yuval Harari said, which I thought was very interesting, people talk about democracies all over the world. But the original democracy as it is seen these days is the American democracy. And American democracy is more than just representative government is more than just free and fair elections. American democracy is multiple branches of government who do balances checks and balances against each other. So if one makes a mistake, it can be corrected. And that's the true democracy, at least the one that we have shown has worked over a couple of hundred years. Maybe this guy ought to deal more with Israel. Talking about your own backyard. Yeah, I mean, what's gonna happen here is own countries can't get their act together politically. I mean, break. I mean, you know, I mean, I love when people talk about it. Look, I've said this on almost every show you've had me on. You keep talking about the Republican Party. It's the voters. You're focusing on the wrong thing. These people don't automatically become members of the House of Representatives or a senator or a governor. The people in their state vote for them. And they vote for them because they like what they say and do. So that's the problem. You talk about the Republican Party. They're just a symbol of the voters in that particular state. That's the scary thing. And that's where the country I think and this is profound from me. I think people now anybody with a brain knows that this country is about as bitterly divided as it's ever been. And it's divided on social and moral issues, which are not easy to fix. Well, I want to add to that the country has had problems for a long time, but it has got like this. It has been unleashed over the past five or six years by you know who that's exactly right. It has to be this way. They've had a messiah. They've had a messiah. And they still have the messiah. And what are you going to do? I don't know you maybe you do what you did to the original Messiah. Never mind. Never mind. Okay. Hey, I like to jump in on something that both you guys have been discussing. That is the following. About a few weeks ago that we had a there was a guest on the show and some really great ideas came up because you're right. The two party system I think is it's almost extinct. And it does go down to the voter. What if every ballot, be it a state election, a city election or a national election, had one box for every for every candidate that's up for election in a particular position? What if that box said none of the above? And those results were reported along with all the other results to show the governments or would be governments that the people can barely hold their nose for the candidates that are being elected at that time. And maybe it is the time for a coalition type government like they have in England and you know, Israel and all these places where it's just not one or the other where nothing's getting done. So I agree with Jeff wholeheartedly is that your government is only as good as your voters. And if the voters want some extreme measure, then what do you do about it? You better start changing how how people are elected. And the first thing obviously is the Electoral College. That's that's got to that's got to go. That has to be scrapped. You have to get rid of the extremes on both parties. Correct. And that's not likely to happen. So that's the left, the far left, the progressive quote so called Democrats, and on the right, the Maga Republicans, and hope that you can put together a government that can function with the remaining Republicans and the remaining Democrats. But to your point, Jeff, but you guys are telling me the good things that should happen. No, he's telling you that I'm not I don't think anything good. You know, I'm full of hopes and dreams you guys don't you know that I want to know from you. Put yourself out there on Wednesday at sec next week and tell me what this is going to be like. I already did. If the Republicans take over the House, it's going to make the last two years look like a dream. That that's my prediction and they are going to take over the House. And I'm hoping the Democrats keep the Senate forget about it. If the Republicans get the result of the vote, I want to know how our country will be. It'll survive like it survived since 1776 or whenever it was. Okay, there's another pizza coming for you on that one. It'll survive. We'll all move to, you know, to Hawaii and all the Democrats will move to California and New York and Massachusetts and all the Republicans will move to Idaho. And, you know, a lot of the base, you know, Trump's voters, they don't know where those states are. I mean, we're talking about ignorance 10 feet tall here. And these are the voters you guys are talking about. But Tim, let me ask you, what is going to happen in the abyss? Well, again, Jeff is, you know, on point on all these, all these things. And that is, it is the social wedge issues. And until those things are resolved, we're going to have all the policies that, you know, bubble up from these things be in contention. So why don't we start addressing the social wedge issues? And what's the big one? I mean, how did Donald Trump really get his, his mega base so supportive and almost zombie like followers? And that is, it was the racial issue, the white fear issue, the white replacement issue. That's really what the glue that holds together support for Donald Trump and the mega GOP. And until you can address some of this white fear that has run rampant throughout the nation. You're not going to get anywhere. Okay, so what is that? We can talk about abortion and all those other issues. But you better hit the underbelly of what's really driving our politics. And that is fear of discrimination against white power. Okay, what does that look like? Give me a picture. What does that look like? What does it look like when you can you've recognized a number of problems? You've said, you know, we have to do these things we really can't do to fix them. So what does the country devolve into? Well, first off, when you when you address someone's grievance, and they like to point a finger at race, immigration, why don't you really look at the under what's really driving part of that? And that's economic disparity. Martin Luther King said it's not just a racial issue that's, you know, that faces this nation. It's the economic inequality. So if you have much of the rust belt in Midwest, where people are economically challenged, and it's so easy for them to point a finger at racial injustice and reverse discrimination, then go after making life, people's lives better, not talking about a handout, I'm talking about a hand up, where are all the promises about on the job training from corporations to give people a shot in a new career, that maybe they've been displaced from their old career? Where are all those programs that Joe Biden and every politician has discussed? People don't want to hand out they want to hand up. And until you started addressing the economic grievances of this country, you guaranteed you'll not get rid of the racial grievances. Okay, what happens if you don't? Well, it festers worse. What does it look like? It looks like it looks like right now, Jay, it looks like right now to the third power. You will have not just a quiet cold civil war, you'll actually start seeing some violence in the street. And it will relate it will look like something like 1969 in cities of Detroit, Los Angeles, Newark. But but but the issues that have divided the nation in the past have basically been political. Vietnam, for example, that's political. Yeah, there's a moral issue to it. It's political. It's do we get involved in other countries? Affairs. Civil rights, probably a mixture, but a lot of politics. Now you look at the issues that are dividing this nation. Gay rights, abortion, racism slash immigration. They're they're less political than they are gut what I call gut issues. Sure. Look at this election. It's come down to inflation, crime, which is always my favorite, and abortion. Those are the three issues that are that are on the ballot on Tuesday, really, in most and maybe you know, in South Texas, it's immigration or something. But, you know, one and a half or two of those issues are moral, not political. You know what I mean? I mean, you know what crime is. We all know crime, what it really means in the hands of the Republicans. It's race, right? That's what crime means. What is anti Semitism? What is it? Is that is that race? Is that economics? What is that? Well, it's not economics, although they use economics, right? Who controls all the wealth? Yeah, it's trope. But Trump's trope. Let me you know, we haven't mentioned, I think maybe one of you guys mentioned it in passing. We haven't mentioned, you know, the effect of social media, as manipulated by a friend of Vladimir Vladimir Putin. Don't blame Putin. What? Don't you know, don't everybody talk about the rush. Absolutely. I absolutely blame him. It is what the Tim Snyder wrote a book called The Road to Unfreedom. And he went through the whole scenario in 2016, how Putin wanted to achieve control of Ukraine. And he had a bunch of guys, all of whom were indicted for their efforts in unregistered agents of Russia. Manafort. Manafort was the primary one, but there were a number of them. And when you get into that, you find that they were actively involved in trying to change public opinion. You guys are talking about divisive issues, about things that excite the base about people, people not agreeing and being, you know, unhappy about this country and all that. Those factors, those divisions are being exacerbated every day. And there was an article in the New York Times magazine this week, a very lengthy, dispositive article on the same subject, repeating what Snyder had said. And I'm talking about, you know, Manafort and the oligarchs then and after then in 2018, 2020 and now these people are manipulating American public opinion, which is vulnerable because we have so many ignorant people in the base. So OK, that's my view. That's what's coming out. That seems clear, Jeff, that that Putin was and is trying to manipulate. And he's very good at it. We know that from what he's done in other countries. We've always had, we've always had provocateurs. These these guys were provoked. They were provoking members of Congress, you know, because but but you know, this gets into what Tim and I always debate. You're going to blame the speaker or the listener. I mean, come on. I mean, I don't think there's any question. You have to you have to blame the guy who's doing social media with a specific intention of rallying people. See, you see, what you and I disagree with is done. That's what you and I disagree. You and I disagree. OK, because I think the listener is equally you know, I disagree with both of you. I but just let me say this one thing. I really cannot eat all that pizza anyway. You know, you guys, you know, so many arguments are not either or black or white. I'm sorry, but, you know, and then, Jeff, I know you're going to take me to task here, but all freedom of speech requires are periodically guardrails. And what good is freedom of speech if you don't have a government and what you can practice it? And who's going to set up the guardrails? The government? I didn't say the government. I mean, there's a who? Well, you have you have, for example, the FCC. You have a government. You have a commission. They're not paid by the U.S. government. But look, I agree with Jeff. Absolutely. The government can be corrupted. You we've seen that. I understand corruption. I work for the government. I'm corrupt. If you put it on them to create the guardrails, we are in autocracy. We have just lost the First Amendment. So that's a real problem. It's not you can't lay this out of the government because the government is flawed. All right. Well, you know what? There are 330 million people in this country. I'm sure there's a few of them that could come up with a solution on how do you design guardrails, implement guardrails without having undue influence or conflict of interest? Well, the problem is they haven't come up with a solution on anything. So what do you say? Come up with one on that. Guess what? We agree. The other problem is who are they and how are they selected? You know, I suppose if the three of us were selected, we could do a job on it. But who's going to select us? I mean, look, look, Jay, you and I live in a vacuum living in Hawaii. Believe me, as I told you, I've now done the Ohio River trip and spent 10 days in the Midwest. I've now spent a weekend in North Carolina. Jay, you have no clue. And I don't mean that in a bad way of what's going on in America. I mean, this woman that owns the restaurant and her husband came by, they're not stupid. They are bright people who have made it, you know, have a successful restaurant business. And they are true believers in everything that we disagree with, except Trump, finally. But I'm sure that if we started, if I started talking to them about gay rights, I would have gotten an earful or immigration. These are not people with a five of you. Keep talking about a ignorant. They don't have a fifth grade education. They can hold a conversation. Believe me, and they are believers in all the things that we don't agree with. Really, I mean, that's what's that's what's happening. I don't have an answer. Well, no, I mean, I just I wonder about the other three hundred and thirty million people in the country who you haven't met in a restaurant. Well, we know 40 percent of them from the polls believe with this woman. Well, you know, at least 60 percent for hope. That's a great takeaway from the show. It's the lady in the restaurant. Yeah, you know, if you have her contacts, I'd like to get her on the show sometime. But I don't think she'd come on the show sometime. She might. She's not shy. I hope you wrote it down with her name and email address. But suffice to say, let's let's close in your comments on this. Nobody knows exactly what's going to happen on an after Tuesday, what house who controls what house. And what they do in January. But I would like your thoughts and you can make them as paranoid or not paranoid as you would. You can even be optimistic, if you like. What what are we looking at? What what what should we be prepared for? How serious or maybe not so serious is this? So, Jeff, you go first. I hope I'll use the word hope. We have a divided government. That's my hope. I'm not going to make a prediction because my prediction would not be very optimistic. I hope we have a divided government when all is said and done. I don't want it. But that would be the best that I think we're going to come out of on Tuesday. And what happens on the, you know, the below ballot races or whatever they call them, Tim. I don't know. The secretary of states, you know, the supervisor of elections, the mayors. The county and city councils. I have no idea. But if I had a prediction, the country will come out of this more divided than it went in. OK, big question, Jeff. Why do you sit? Why are you hoping to have a divided government? Why? What is in your mind as the pros for that? Well, it's not what I would want. It's what I'm hoping because I think the reality is it could be a lot worse. I think we all know that in off year elections, the party out of power out of the presidential power always does well. I think the economy is bad. I think crime is being used, you know, as it always is by the party that is out of power. I think social issues will hopefully keep the Democrats from losing control of the Senate. And I still think, you know, that that there's enough rational people in Georgia and Pennsylvania, in Arizona and some other states that when all is said and done, we'll have 51 Democratic senators, not 50. So that's my hope. I wrote a piece once and it ended with the line. We hope for so many things, but really all we have is hope. Well, I'm going to bring more hope to the table with my comment. Oh, go for it. Go for it, too. I hope there's more people like the one Jeff spoke to in Ohio, the lady who's fatigued, Trump fatigued. And, you know, we really realize the power of a leader and how they can influence people either for social good or to tear the country apart. That's what we've had. Donald Trump is a virus upon this country. And I'm hoping this virus starts to wane, and that's only going to happen if, you know, people kind of wake up to realizing what's at stake. Remember, GOP thinks that the the our democracies undermine because of Democrats and Democrats believe because of the mega GOP just spot on is that their belief system is 180 percent 180 degrees opposite from Democrats. So my hope is that this virus known as Donald Trump starts to wane and we get more reasonable politicians in and trying to guide and run this country. It's going to be a divided country. It's going to be a divided government. But that's the way the Constitution and the rules of the road were set up for division. But, you know, at the same time, cooperation through division. That's my hope. That's my prayer. Just remember, we still have yet to come up with a vaccine for the pandemic. True. But this pandemic actually is can be removed through through what is called indictments and prosecution. That's another show. That's another show. But remember, that's another pizza. He is on the slow march to fascism. And until we wake up and realize that, you know, we are going to be even further divided. Maybe if they taught more science in school, we wouldn't have some of these problems. Maybe so. So true. You said earlier that you thought we were going to wind up in violence. Can you say that? No, you didn't say it. Tim said it. We already have violence. Yeah. I think that all law enforcement agencies on election day need to be on alert. We may see certain polling places where ugly incidents occur. I don't think there is a going to be a widespread, you know, massive attack on the Capitol like January 6th. But yeah, law enforcement needs to be on guard. It should not be complacent. And we're going to see some news reports of, of kind of ugly incidents occur. Maybe in Arizona, maybe in Idaho, maybe in Los Angeles. Who knows. I know you want to end the show, but, you know, there's just so much more publicity about violence. This country has had violence for decades. Just look at the Klu Klux Klan and the lynching and burning. I mean, you know, so there's, you know, there's, there's a 10,000 crazies out there that, you know, don't believe in government. And our anarchists, we have a few right here in Hawaii. But is it worse than it was? I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure it's more prominent. But is it worse? I don't know. I just, I'm not ready to concede that violence now is more likely or prominent. Then it's been over decades. But I could be wrong. Last word on that point, Tim. Last word is vote. And don't just vote. Vote blue. Okay. All you 330 million Americans watching this show. Yeah. Okay. You heard it. You heard it from these guys. Jeff Portnoy. Jeff Portnoy. Jeff Portnoy. Jeff Portnoy. Jeff Portnoy. You heard it. You heard it from these guys. Jeff Portnoy and Tim Apichella. Thank you so much for this very, very interesting conversation. Aloha. Thank you.