 I'm not sure how this procedure goes because this will be the first time I've done this So I don't know if you guys if this is your meeting or if you guys leave this thing and then ask us questions Usually the other way around we leave you guys usually tell me would go through the budget. Okay, or usually we look at Where we're at. Okay, which I did not send you because it told me did not send me that so you must have No, this was the first time I've seen it I got it today. Oh, you got you sent me to him. Okay. I gave you to them. Okay. Yep. So we sent them to you. Okay So it's a joint meeting so you guys call your meeting to order we call our meeting. We just call the meeting to order, right? Okay, so we do So we have no public comment no additions or changes to the agenda, right, right So let me let me start by This is gonna be my first time If I look like I'm prepared is probably because that's the case We just come back from that. Yeah So I drew so it is so it is a little about our organized, but I did not want to cancel the meeting We need to get this the budget in Well, we're working on budget we've been meeting on Saturday. Yeah, so our other member that was going to speak is actually still up there So so we're a little bit short. Yeah, and the as far as some of the paperwork because of the transition of the President not the president, but the chief the board Membership we we're not up to speed on all of it yet One of them is the capital plan We don't we do not have an updated capital plan Which I don't believe it at this point is crucial, but it's we're working on it and we can get it to you Well, Toby so doing this he can't be here because he's in New Hampshire out of funeral Oh, this is not a meeting for us This is not a meeting for us No, so so I'm gonna We're gonna try to do our best because there is a crucial thing on the agenda why I did not want to cancel the meeting tonight On our agenda So budget maybe we can just quickly go through. Yeah where we are actuals So when it shows a negative amount that means you're Which which one do you want here the one Judy just gave us? Yeah, okay So what it shows a negative like it shows insurance reimbursements negative 15,000 that is under budget or over budget I never can remember Well, if it's way over on the over budget line, it's going to show a negative so that we are over budget Like take the line of dispatch 780 and then budget eleven thousand four hundred and We're over Over by ten thousand dollars. So you have that Right, it's not over. So we haven't spent that's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean when it shows a negative amount That's what you got left. Yeah, correct. Yeah, correct. Yeah, right Is there anything that Any line in particular, I mean we're only into what four months four months into the budget Yeah, when Toby he didn't say anything to me at last meeting. It was nothing that stood out at us For this for these four months I mean the price of fuel oil is just going to be crazy rate Not only fuel oil, but diesel diesel for the truck. How do you guys get your diesel? Do you have a tank? No, we we get ours through a packers package down here by the by the Industrial Packers industrial lane I Every truck has a card over the driver's visor so every truck is recorded what truck is using how much fuel and We also get our What tax we don't have to pay tax on the fuel tax for right? We pay it, but but We submit to the state a record of Of it and they refund the diesel tax Yeah, we just actually renewed Rick and I are in learning of the town stuff We just Re-upped our exemption as the town of Calis can get an exemption on the tax So you guys don't get exempted, but you get a discount You gotta have that thing that they want so they wanted record Of how much we got how much we paid diesel how much we paid in taxes and then they refunded What they were supposed to No, this is something we didn't get We're just looking at this right now So I'm curious to your miles traveling state Oh boy, it's anybody On the on the ring Curious, you know your general miles on the vehicles, you know from here to here doesn't average out pretty well closely Or I know it's for how much fuel we use no action miles driven, you know when you Really keep track of how many miles a year to year on all our rigs to know how many miles You know it really so it varies. I mean we like to take our heavy rescue But a lot of times we only take engine two, you know, and so it's calls very it's kind of hard to say Well, we're using our heavy rescue too much, but not too many miles, you know, it's like The call is a call. It is what it is No, we aren't really keeping track of mileage to really same thing with our ambulances The only thing I could say about the ambulances we try to save rescue for for the rougher times of the year It's a more of a heavier ambulance for the back roads and mud season all that So we run rescue three ambulance most of the time during the off season. That's not muddy and harder on the roads So you guys as a board you haven't reviewed these either I've not seen that What is the salary stipend and when is that distributed is that kind of a That is in That report Yeah, yeah, your budget you budgeted for 338, 786 and so far Which one are you looking at, fire? Um, ambulance, I'm sorry Okay, so the ambulance, the budget project that's stipend I believe has been figured out And I'm not sure if it's been distributed, but it will be like within a few days If it hasn't already Does it but do you do it every month? No, you annual Yeah I don't think so. I I don't recall giving anyone stipends. I don't know what that means. That's that's correct the The stipend is in the fire that we give on fire is on fire when you strike because it's well, there is a Well, there is a stipend line There is a stipend line in the fire Um, where you're at now I Right The the stipend is $9,400 for all of the volunteers fire fighters That gets paid on Christmas. So that will not reflect it Yes, so it's zero The ambulance is probably salary costs, right? And see what happens is that that has to be transferred from fire Over to ambulance to pay it Because it's paid through salary Our salary all comes out of the ambulance fund Okay, so the the salary stipend for the ambulance though. Don't you pay? I don't have to pay for an hour, but I thought you paid per diem for ambulance stipend for ambulance Clear it up. So what paul just mentioned is correct When it says there's a payroll tax stipend It's because it's a payroll tax on stipends that the fire guys got with that $9,400 that we give out stipends because when we pay for stipends we with old taxes And it's got to get recorded somewhere and all our payroll goes through the ambulance payroll tax So all the payroll fees stipend payroll tax stipend It's not like we're giving any of our EMS people stipends. We're not well I was looking at the stipend line for the ambulance. That's what I'm saying Where where do the same it says it's five five zero zero salary stipend You're budgeted is three hundred and forty eight thousand seven hundred and six dollars And you've expended one hundred and one five eight five, you know, that that's salary I don't know what the word stipend is there. Well, it may be lumping It is confusing None of our our per diem people are getting stipends They're getting per diems. They're all getting per diem And per diem doesn't show up on ambulance p. So it must be It's so right so that must be the Per diems, right right I think the word stipend in there is confusing It is I don't think it should be there under salary But the eventually will take the fire stipend the 9400. Yeah, they'll transfer it into salary So maybe that's why it's slash stipend that 94 has to get transferred over and then they pay it through the Correct. So that's that's probably why right exactly, right We're going to take it out of the fire budget and put it into the budget to pay it. So right now that that stipend for the fire is not in this one-on-one Right one-on-one started the people right it's not there. Oh, that's confusing. Yeah, it is Well, we're learning together because that's the most I've ever heard about it You guys have anything else you want to tell us about this Uh it's um I say that the last board meeting nothing was really about that Unusual Yeah, and you just had your audit done. So you have copies of the audit. Yeah, I read it Yeah General stuff. I read it over this afternoon. It wasn't Kind of hard to read The other report, uh That we don't I don't have for you maybe already mentioned about the number of runs that we go on. Oh, yeah, the wrong call volume Yeah, we don't not have because uh, told me it was not here to run Okay, but we can get that to you unless you know where it is I talked with toby today. He says we only give it out at the end of the end end of the year They give it to us every time we meet That was toby's words to me today So Toby says no, it's it's only at the end of the year They get all the our call volume and everything I said, okay, toby But the chief was asking me to get it from toby and I gave toby a call I said, hey, can we get a printout of our call volume? How many marsh field how many playfields? We always get that every every I think we get it every My recollection jude jude, you and I were in a meeting together We had some really hard conversation about that and I hope you can bring that to toby's attention. That is Toby's gonna watch our movie here tonight The reason I remember hearing in this meeting for I don't know why I'm talking tonight For not giving it to you every time is because It's some of this yearly some of this, you know two different years And to get the comparison you've got to get through the whole year if you want a yearly comparison And we're still in december right, but I just know every time As long as I've been coming to these meetings every time we've met we've gotten the call volume So let me I want to say go back to we what I remember and jude if I'm looking at you because I think We were looking at six months chunks That's right. Yeah. Yeah, and From the big discussion that night was On where are the trials? So we were seeing a point of time past six months whatever it was doesn't matter and There was no data no historic data. It was one column press it could have been in past year I don't know, but it was one day and no trends and I from I'm speaking only for myself, but I'm less interested in whether it's every meeting Or whether it's a six-month window or a one-year window the most important piece of information is what is the trend Now when you say trend help me out with what the trend you're looking increasing numbers increasing But not just a verbal. Yo, it's oh, it's good. I think somebody said comparison. It's oh, it's up I can tell you it's up. I don't want you to tell me it's up I want to see a trend I want to see the historic data going back three five even ten years To show the trend from a data perspective not from a verbal anecdotal perspective That helps us because we you know in thinking about your growth needs to work So you want fire the embers fire and ambulance, right? Well, and when we talk about it It's actually great that we don't have it and we can have this conversation instead of looking at a Daiglet point So when toby produces it at the end of the year for one year Perhaps what toby could also do is go back to the historic reports and build A presentation around historic trends of the past five or ten years That would be a really valuable discussion and a really valuable to see Yeah, because it's hard to know, you know, you're looking at the sheet that shows the call volume But you don't have anything to compare it to so it's like to be a care comparison would be really helpful Never baseline I agree and I and I wish I I was more computer savvy that I could go in there and press a button and call up the The chart that will let me print out call volume. I don't have a clue how to do it called toby today and he said Well, but again, that would still be only one point in time From what we heard the last time Yeah, if you get it every six months or every time we meet and you get a history of the past every time we meet The data is there or the data has been generated on a periodic basis, but not kind of evaluating or compiling You know years start You know what I would say that the nice thing is that Fiscal years that have been completed that data is all fixed, right? So that just resides in a summary sheet Then you're just adding, you know the Based on the year today current so we can kind of see that trending. I think for the the main thing there is that you It tells you a lot We're going need right what helps us all to be understand Wow, look at the call line going up. No wonder the ambulance needs to be replaced so so if we try to get it together a Summary of a three year last three years three to five three to five or even ten. I mean ten is really meaningful If it's no more than 10 then then yeah, whatever you have whatever we Invitation the night that we talked about it the invitation was for us to go back and dig back To get all the old paper that had been presented to us and do it ourselves If nobody has time well I don't have all that paper and I think that the Review and the analysis and the meaning of that trend line and where it's coming from and what you You know anecdotes and observations from the crew on top of that data is really Illuminating well tell the story. Yeah You know Yeah, but I think he explained that that was not a simple matter But it is if you have the paper if you produced it your if you've produced it every six months or every year Toby should have it then somebody has the history and Toby's excellent on excel He couldn't put together an excel table that shows a trend line Yes, I mean I guess the request back to Toby is To review the historical that data went back at least five years and show us a comparison review and present of You know fire ambulance um That would help us because we're not you know, we don't see the data all the time. We're not here all the time Okay I got that no Any more questions on the current where we were at for the quarter No, I don't anybody else So We we discussed the budget About the budget the audit that that's pretty Yeah, you got a question on it What's The proposed budget next yeah, okay So I'm glad Sandy's here on this Do you have any questions on it first this this is going to get into some in-depth discussion here Okay, well I did I had I I did put together a list of questions Wait, which one are we on I'm sorry We're looking at They are not Down which they are but here I printed them a bit and I'll print them. Are we back on the one you guys gave me that we didn't have This one It's these fire and ambulance fire and ambulance. That's just fire. That's a fire. This is ambulance This is the ambulance this we have you have just those we say ambulance at the top, right? The one that has marshfield playing field contribution Is going to be ambulance, right? Yeah, I figured that So I did go through this line by line Oh, okay, and have some questions That's um, and I don't know whether your questions my questions or our questions are going to be answered by whatever further Stuff you said you're going to get in Oh, no, that's that's that's something uh concerning the budget but nothing to do with these numbers. Oh, okay um, I really have Did you guys receive ARPA funds? Receive what did did did you receive ARPA funding? I'm not sure what that is American rescue plan American rescue plan. You know the town's all got ARPA money Not that I'm aware. Okay Do you want to give this up? Oh Can use it salaries it was capital projects emergency one-time expenditures and We got all the towns got ARPA funds, right? Well You get town might have got some but we the town gets up, but we didn't get it Well, that was my question. Did you get did you get special ARPA funding as a volunteer? No, no, okay. No, that was my question um I guess just overall I wonder with the cost rising cost of heating oil and diesel and all those kinds of things um If you've gone out and kind of done some shopping On who can give you the best price? I mean, I think I'm you know I know I'd do that at home. You know who's going to give us the best price for our propane or heating oil So I just didn't know if you guys had Like a purchasing policy where you go out Do some shopping to get the best price the We they did they did something some of that this year. However, it was starting to increase Pretty rapidly by the time that we get on it Um, so we ended up going I believe with the same company as we had last year That we felt at the time that we did this was about the best If you started back in april who do you use? For heating is heating Who's the heating oil? I think we're still with content It starts diesel for our truck you're buying diesel from through packers through packers, right? Right And uh, but by the time they get on it the prices were We're going up substantially and if we started it back in april They probably would have been a different situation which next year again. It's all new people on the board in Learning when the stuff should be Started for example, you know looking at oil. Yeah, we found out that we started late Okay, but next year you're going to do some research But going to divisa's The other piece of the question is there a purchasing policy like Is there a purchasing policy a policy that says If we're going to spend x amount There's a whole other process for equipment, but I don't know where the line is for what's equipment and what's just You know kind of general maintenance For large items there is like our fire truck. We did we put it out for bids Sure, but under a policy. Is there a policy that says here's how our purchasing works Here's the circumstances in which we Price shop here's the circumstances in which You know something under whatever number 200 500 somebody is allowed to make that purchase without authorization Without board authorization without board authorization. It still comes obviously comes through the the invoicing process of somebody sees the expense Yeah, when do you go out to bid? What are the criteria if you're out to bid? What are the criteria for decision making? How do you how do you compare because price may not be the only consideration? So you want to articulate Clearly what your Other things that you would weigh and how they how they fit against the price who ultimately decides Yeah, what's the what's the timeline? I you're making this out a lot worse than it is. Yeah We do one large items Large items we do for the most cases. We don't just say we want a generator go out and buy a generator But is there a purchasing policy that backs it up that we have we have a committee that oversees the best buy Is there a purchasing policy? They don't your answer is no The only thing that I know that we have a policy on is if if it is Over 50 $250 purchase it has to go with the board Is that in right? Yes I don't think the chief every bill that's paid is it has to be approved by the board every month But every so every purchase over two little I believe it's 250. I think that's has to be free approved not Purchasing policy has to be approved by the board In advance before the purchase is authorized or that uh, I don't That's up in the air. Yeah, that's up in the air because a lot of the stuff is we buy like is You need it You know if we go if we go through a board wait for a board meeting We're going to get way behind them on stuff that we need Say for instance, we need our toner replace We leave it in her hands to contact staples I believe don't did you buy it or did larry buy it and go down and get the best deal on Five three or four boxes of toner. They're expensive. These box of toner for the printer He isn't going to go and buy the most expensive. He's going to get the best deal again So to have a policy and say look before you buy the toner come to the board And review this purchase of 300 dollars. We can't we can't what we're getting callus town of callus as a purchasing policy So anything over 500,000 $5,000 we do we go out for a bid If it's under 500,000 it just needs 500 yeah 5,000 um And there is a we have emergency if there things their contingency then if it's emergency You know, you cannot override that it just has to be Documentary Well, you might want to consider whatever you do whatever is practical. Yeah, whatever you do write it up Have the board adopted. So you're protected So this year this is just for you. This is for your protection. Yeah, so so this year we we had a snow plow I'm going to call proposals. I'm not going to call it because it wasn't a Proposals from from three different vendors And how did you decide what was that criteria for deciding deciding who got it? Yeah, it was we looked at them all We looked at all the price. We looked at what they could do Um Their their location Who did you decide on we tied a tie rolling? Okay, and that brings me to my other question about a conflict of interest policy It's not a conflict of interest because he was the best best because he had the best price He was the best bid for the job We knew his service and what he was doing besides what was in his contract and we're going to hold him to it He's plowing out Our dry hydrants that he didn't put in the contract But neither did anybody else with their bid on it and ty's been doing this for years been doing a good job plowing salt and sanding and yet When it was brought to our attention. Well, is he going to do the dry hydrants? Well, none of the other bids had it in their dry hydrant either and he was the best Deal and we knew that ty will plow our dry hydrants And and we also had a member that would dud it in the past It was a simple decision and it wasn't a conflict of interest because he was on the board Or or he's not on the board, but he was past chief or something. That wasn't the case. We didn't take that More or less You compared the apples to apples to apples Well, and that's where that's actually that's not really we're getting it. That's a really excellent example of what a purchasing policy Would help to guard or protect is your purchasing policy would say for this kind of a contract because it's going to be more than x number of dollars We will go out to bid we will receive at least three bids. We will consider the following criteria boom boom boom boom Price service level location, you know keeping whatever you want to include You want it to be generic enough that it applies beyond plowing But then you've got we have nine nine points of criteria in our purchasing policy that we use to compare bids for whatever it is and Then you've got the bids and the numbers you've got the Criteria you've got the policy you've got all these things protecting you From a claim of conflict of interest when you go through a policy like that Or a purchase like that. Yeah, I mean, it's just a good protection for you as a department to have Especially like if we ask questions So can you send us that your policy sure we will it's old it needs updating I'm going to first tell you yeah, but it's better than nothing. I was gonna say it's better than nothing So yeah, we can send you the link It's on our town website. It is we can go to the town website select board Or it's government audiences and policies right it's right in there And we do have a conflict of interest policy So we do you you do the fire department does Yeah, okay good great Can I ask a question about the ambulance but Can we just before we go on that I would say on the fuel I used to buy a lot of fuel for Yeah as a facilities operations director and so It's really worth when you did those if you don't do it you look at any I don't know if you burn any propane here or You just burn fuel oil, but you burn diesel fuel a lot of it So it's really worth looking like the Irving's and Packard Like you're doing they they those deals are you buy you can buy those both together off in the library There's something you can get really significant savings Across your fuels. So it's worth doing a little A little homework. I mean I I and Packard interestingly enough was almost always One of the best yeah when I always found I you know and When I was buying it I was buying pretty significant volumes of it. So but it was Or you know, but you never knew because Irving he didn't handle say propane and we also brought from propane And so they were even though say an oil fuel oil price might be a little higher aggregated with a much slower propane price because we're buying it as a We all the oil we bought counted against the volume. We're buying the propane You know could make that cheaper So it's something to think about if you're I don't know if you're not. Yeah Britain knows a lot about this stuff When I look at the ambulance budget, I mean, I don't really know much about the operation. So All I'm doing is looking are there big changes and Why that's all and the only line I see On the budget of the ambulance that looks very different Is the salary line Which went from 293 in fiscal 22 to 348 And then your flat is flat for Well, fiscal 23 is 348 Oh The 293 is the FY 22 actual year to date So that's that's just year to date. I see so we're not very far. We're not We're not I see it. Okay. So what you're doing is holding salaries flat But what I guess I'm asking is the budget for this year the year we're in is 348 The budget for next year is 348 Right. So you're holding salaries flat Well, I'll get into that. We're we're going to get into that. That's that's our other half that we wanted to do I have one more question if I could go ahead line item 5030 on the building Which is under which is under fire Because there's two building building building one is this old one, right? Right this building two is the new one And you have down FY 20, which number you're looking at now line 5030 Under fire fire and it says FY 22 11 5 FY 23 11 5 But the actual for FY 22 is 25. Okay. What that is Two things one that I can talk about that I know about is that we lost a well We had to put a new A new pump in our well. Oh, that was one of them. But there's also we also lost the something out in the bay um The pump for the for the hydrant There's something there's something out in the game because of moment, but it was something I see Is that the dry hydrant? No, not a dry hydrant. No, it's the the hydra. Well, it's sort of like a dry hydrant. But yeah So it was a new well pumped in hydrant. I think it was I think it was another pump In I think it was in the out of the bay that went out and that in the well out here was very expensive They replaced that so that's why it's high and what on that same line I do notice it's not a big increase, but your budget you increased from 11 5 to 15 Do you know was that just sort of feeling like well something else is going to go wrong? Yeah, it's interesting though because we're talking about snow plowing and mowing You budgeted and that's number 5 1 1 2 You budgeted it for f y 22 5500 f y 22 you but 23 you budgeted 5500 and the actual for f y 22 is zero We hadn't got built yet. Yeah. Oh, okay We spoke to him about that. Oh, okay Yeah, and does he keep does he give you an itemized invoice? Yeah, he did this time Okay, but Yeah, he was he was behind In uh, he was old and so yeah for this year not to do it again. Yeah. Yeah, so that's been So, okay, so yeah, it was different fiscal period. Yeah, yeah, right Right, and then it makes it and then when you come down to the actual you spent in It's in the long year It's on a very effective amount. It's gonna it's gonna look like we doubled Double what we spend here. Okay, so title will correct billing procedures. I wanted to go back to the to the LP For the gas which number is that uh 51 7 When you when you talk about getting under fire bids for oh, yep for propane and things like that You'll notice we only use a thousand a thousand dollars. Yeah, you know, it's not a big idea. You know, it's not I didn't know Yeah, you're I was I was using at his example with aggregate Where you do use a lot of his diesel fuel so yeah, and that would count in a In like with somebody like urban It's the total volume is actually add up We have to say you've used a lot of you sure use a lot of fuel so Yeah, as you when you buy bulk Your bulk price is based on the aggregate of this So that gets you with a much lower price category. So that's where that can help you Yeah, you don't burn enough propane to say so That's all right diesel fuel Did you increase vehicle repairs? 400 for any particular reason the the vehicles are getting older We our pickup is 10 years old The ambulance for There's issues with that. There's issues with engine for engines are all 10 Engine for according to your capital. I mean, I don't know but Is it has it it's end of life, right? I think you're putting money aside back through 27 Well until until the new one comes in Yeah, you gotta keep you gotta maintain that truck. Yeah, it's gotta be it's gotta be able to be A new one. Is that the one that we a new one's been ordered and we is that the new one that you Yeah, yeah, that's one that will replace the engine you and he small player have agreed to 200,000 in the fire department 250,000 Maybe another year. Yeah, I mean, they're just so far behind it all these places. It's unbelievable I do have one other question. This is no offense Is it to it fence from callus? It's not a fence from callus. Okay Are you East Montpelier the town of East Montpelier uses part of station one To park trucks or something. Is that true? Half the building up there, I believe they use for with the grader. I think they park the grader in there I think Building this is building two building ones up on the hill Station So I guess I just wanted to visit does East Montpelier pay an annual Rental kind of fee or is it just being nice or how does that work? That I think is a question for Toby. What the complete financial or maybe you know Of the of what the agreement whether they pay just electricity for it all the electricity or Or all the heat or something something. I don't know. It's a good question. I think it's got to be between I think the two select boards say, you know What's fair you guys? Yeah, what's fair is fair, you know and just say, you know East Montpelier is using half of the building So so what I'm hearing you saying if I'm not Correct me if I'm wrong. So I that's why I didn't be clear on it The part that the town is using For their trucks, you're suggesting that Your fees your your money is going into heating that Side lighting that electricity. I just curious. I mean, I you know, it's probably not it's not a big deal It's probably not a lot of money. I was just curious if there was some kind of written arrangement that you used about pillier There there has been a good agreement that was made when they took over half that I remember when it happened as far as how callous comes into it. I do not know I don't I don't know what the the arrangements east Montpelier has with callous And well, it's just a question to put out there that if somebody has a chance Actually, it doesn't even really It implicates us, but if you're giving it to them for free And we're subsidizing If they're giving if you're giving it to them in return for something Right No, he's right if if east Montpelier is paying the heat for the building and the lights for the building It might be a wash They're using half the building, but they're paying the heat and the lighting and we're using it for the fire trucks And it's a benefit to east Montpelier and callous But for that, but I don't know the agreement that tie and toby has with the town of east Montpelier And that's a good question Well, we are getting better put out of it too that that would concern me. I mean are we are we getting fair in it? It's callous. Yeah, I don't I don't remember We park our trucks in half But you're talking about the other half the other half right that I remember, you know I remember years ago. I think Mike Gehring was still on the select board at the time um That that agreement happened, but I could never remember What the agreement was that I know that there's no money to exchange Okay, right. We don't get money from the town. Yeah, well, maybe they paid maybe they specifically for the use of that app It didn't happen way back with Mike Gehring. It only happened since tie and toby It hasn't happened that far back I don't know. Mike was there. Mike was in the agreement when when the town used half. Yeah I was just saying, you know, maybe Oh, Mike Gehring was I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah, I was thinking as chief for building one, you know, if the diesel is You know, what does it cost to heat the place who's kind of paying for it? Well, we got 3,500 dollars down for heat it Yeah, so you're okay. So anyways, maybe you just check on that because it's going from 3,500 to 6,000 in the heat and oil for station one and that got back to my original question about getting you know going and heating oil shopping So I understand that that's the question is that half of the building. Yeah, right. Yeah Okay, that's fair question. Yeah, there's a fair question. Nice. All right. Well, and your piece of our bill is getting into you for free Actually, I mean then essentially it's in a way. It's probably wise You're not paying no rent. You're paying heat. I mean Callum We're paying rent No, we're not being charged Plus I thought And then there's also a question while the fire department is part of the town so technically the town owns it so I don't The fire department. I was not owned it. But if we went to funk tomorrow The town's going to have the key for everything. Right. Right. That's why I love you. Yeah, that's why I love you So you can just sit there and talk. It's a very good question. I'd like to know the answer to what what Because I I want to be fair to you guys as well as you know the cost and fair to us as They're using it and fair to the budget I understand your point of view. Yeah, thank you. Yeah I don't think I have any other questions and I know you guys You guys have something you want. Yeah, including the salary line. Yeah, so So we're saying you and I are going to both start on to talk about this You notice you did notice that the the budget for salary Was 348 Which is the same as the period that we're in right now versus the year prior. It's it's been the same Through through the years everybody knows that we've been trying to build it up build it up build it up so that we can go full staff 24-7 two people on 24-7 two paid 24-7 So we've been working at trying to get a full staffing level when you say staff. Is that the ambulance or is that fire? Just the ambulance. This is we're just talking so we've been working trying to get Get our staffing up to full level and that's what that's been going on now Not just that these two years. I'm talking probably a couple fiscal years before that You've been increasing it increasing it increasing to get to full staffing It's not a secret today that staffing in the ems field Is heard Even even the full time very cities in the in the majority they're hurting The world has a huge Add in there for emt's or very very very town or very city Well very town everybody so we're all everybody's in this thing together where the just the people are not out there so By in saying that we are not anywhere. We are not at full staffing And that's why you see the 293 Trying to get to where you're we're trying to get up there. So a full staffing would be this 348. Okay. We're not there and What's missing? What's what's what position does that represent? position in other words the difference of The 50,000 bucks. Yeah, how many is it? How many have to eat? What is that? It's the amount of empty shifts That they're not no not empty shifts amount of instead of having two people on you're going to have one person on on several of these shifts Yeah, you have 17,000 hours Of shifts. Okay. They're not all being filled by two people. You may have one person And it's not a secret. There's going to be some when there's no nobody here It's it's not through the through the night. We may not have two people here not to say we're going to drop that call Means that two people are coming from home to do it. We're not Staffed as two people in this building now when you say staff Is this per diem? Is this hourly so that they get benefits? No, no benefits. No benefits. It's all per diem. It's all per diem. That makes a difference, right? Okay, so with that being said What do you pay for per diem? I can give you those. Let me get into that The same thing is going to be able to talk better on why this has come up Why this This whole issue has come up about the staffing Why we're losing people why we're not getting people and we talked the other day about Losing We don't want to lose the people that are stuck by us Okay, when you say we do you mean the board the fire department the fire department board or the whole membership Well, I guess the board the membership don't want to lose our per diem people, right? We don't want to we don't want to lose any more than what we already got because we're hanging on With a big minimum number of people. We want to keep them here and keep them happy Can we I'm sorry. I'm going to just ask if we can step back maybe You're just a little bit historically I remember a conversation not too long ago I think we were having the same conversation around shifting from the volunteers to more and more per diems That's what that's what the full staffing was about Yes, because the volunteers are the same as that as the ems people I just not there Well, okay. It's the volunteer. I understand I understand that they do the same job That's what you're saying, right? Do you do the same job when they're here? Whether they're per diem when you're paid or you're a volunteer You're doing You're being an ems person one way or another Yeah for the for the most part for ems. Yes purposes of this discussion. Yes. And so a few years ago it was a transition to Be thinking more about paid Per diems, right? Am I right? Yeah, that's right. I remember this correctly. Yeah, and that was like a oh We're not getting any volunteers. So we show it as we have historically now. We need to be talking about paid per diems More and now we're going now. We're now paid per diems are Scares is what you're saying. Is that where we are? They are No, I believe you. I'm just trying to I'm just trying to put in a bigger context Make sure I'm understanding the arc of the of the story When this when I first got on the board and we were doing the fire department the ambulance I mean the fire department didn't even have an ambulance that You know, it was when we ambulance got started up. It was strictly volunteer. Nobody got paid And then it changed because of staffing shortages even years seven years ago to some High pay high. Yeah, some That's relatively recent because in my Five past years. Well, we were a fast squad back that right. We're a fast squad. We didn't we were a transporting agency right and to now and now now we're involved into you know A really wonderful EMS or EMT Yeah, you know paramedics paramedics that that we now have right So that's kind of the evolution And now what you're saying is you can't even get You can't get volunteers for one thing and it's even harder. It's harder to get volunteers It's hard to get per diem people Right. Well, we want we want to send the message that we want to hang on to the ones we have We know right now. Hardwick's got an advertisement out there looking for them Barry town's got advertisement out there looking for them. We just lost A gentleman called Greg Hayden to berry city who's been doing lots of shifts here We we know berry city berry town Montpelier, they're all water berry. They're all looking to hire these folks And you haven't heard the end of our speech yet that We want to give our people a little bit of a raise To give them an incentive to stay they haven't had a raise since they've started They've been staying at the same pay scale And what we probably failed to do is give them 10 cents a year 25 cents a year 10 cents a year And that's how the progressive but now we're seeing our guys getting the same amount of money they've got for the last 10 years and They could go elsewhere for making maybe a dollar maybe two dollars more an hour with benefits So are you let me clarify something The 348 represents full staffing Yes, doesn't represent full staffing plus raise No, no, no, it doesn't like to increase this. Nope. No. What do you want to do? This is by Or you want to use the money Okay, so with what sandy said we really we're really Because you can't meet that full staff and with the money that's in the budget We want to keep them here Because it's a big talk now because we haven't been giving the raises What we're proposing is That we will pay Out of this our budget that right now this 348 thousand dollar budget we have We will give We will give a uh increase stipend increase not stipend pay raise Out of that money for the next For the until the end of our fiscal period, which is June June right June 30 the fiscal year And the way that that works out this is going to get into the hourly stuff Okay, the way it works out. We have an EMR Um EMTB Could you just give us what that acronym stands for? Thank you emergency medical responder Which is the starting? Entry level The entry level right person Certified first We don't have first responder. So so that is like a first responder in their license. I'm an EMR So in order to do billing you have to have two certified people in order for Medicare Medicaid to pay So an EMR is a certified. I'm a certified licensed Through the state and federally so that I can run medical calls to help our EMT or our paramedic so that we can Collect collect on it. And that's what an EMR is. So that's what you are. Okay. Yeah Okay Yeah, so now that the basic EMT Right now currently was is at $15 An hour. Yeah, they both both of those EMTs Talked about per diem. It was like you work a shift to get 250 bucks. No, no, no Don't say that Per diem means that they're paid for us. They're paid for that here We're bringing you in for a shift And you get so much per hour There's no benefits. We don't pay no benefits. No vacation time. Nothing. Yeah, it's paid. How much $15 per hour Per hour. Yeah, 15. That's your entry level. Yeah, those two are entry levels. Okay. EMTA Is being paid at $18 an hour In a paramedic Is being paid at 20 Okay I think that there's something where In order for you to go on in a call, doesn't one of these other Have to go with oh, yeah, but there's always two right So there couldn't be just like two EMRs. No two EMRs. They can't because no Well And different levels can do different interventions, right? So if I go out with a paramedic We are in great shape that paramedic can do anything But if I go out with an EMT They just a plain EMT they can't start an IV So a EMT is starting an IV There's different levels of what they can do. I don't do anything except hitting needles over gauzes Wrap and stuff and do different but to actually drug or something. I don't even think I can I can do glucose So Or I'm paid $15 For an hour if I'm here Or $18 per call. Oh, no, no, I think it's still $15 if I'm at home And we only have one person on staff and I get a call that call from the last three hours I only get a a per call rate a one call rate of 15. I think it's $15 Or $18 $18 Well, hang on before we go there for me just I wanted to sorry micro wanted to just Clarify the no benefits point So I understand no benefits. No pay vacation. No health insurance problem. No overtime. No overtime But I reach a certain amount which is way over 40. Yeah, that's where I was going So it how likely is it in that an individual? A particular person is working let's More than 40. Okay, but even more than 30 hours a week such that they might be considered something or more than 20 hours a week Such that they might be considered Probably three of them that are working over. Yeah, you're getting it. There's something along, right? Well, no, but are you not even that but just just so that people understand, you know Sometimes we hear I don't get any benefits Um, and then it's like oh, but you work 15 hours a week Like that's not a position that was really designed to be a benefits position So I just want to understand How many people who? How many people are working For this organization? Let's say more than 30 hours a year Probably three of them probably three or four and you being one Four of them out of Maybe 10 to 12 12 of them 10 to 12 What you can before we go into that Continue on with what you're saying. Well, I just know it's there's a difference between people who work 30 to 40 hours a week or more And don't get any benefits And people who work 10 15 even 20 hours a week who are doing Who very much take a part-time job with that expectation? I got a part-time job. It's great. I get gets me Out of the house. I get to serve my community community. I don't expect benefits, but sometimes Yeah, sometimes I have heard people complain about not having benefits When the backstory is they're working 10 or 15 hours a week And and I don't necessarily It was news to me that a person working 10 or 15 hours a week would expect or be grumpy about not getting benefits So that's a new world. That's where we are So they probably are but it's those ones that are working 35 hours a week And it's probably those four people that Deserve a pay raise and how do you give a pay raise? Just those people with their with their title of say they're an emt And then there's someone else as an emt and they only put in 15 hours a week Can you justify that one that's putting in 30 hours? So we have to do the pay raise across the board I'm talking about benefits just that point. You may see any of the no benefits. So benefits is stated that Why I'm saying benefits is we're going to lose these people to the city of berry because they have because they have benefits And they're short by Well, wait a minute You bring up benefits Sandy brought up benefits. Yes Yeah, so so i'm saying that they may be only putting in 30 if they put in another 10 hours and they're working for berry city They're getting benefits And we're not offering that even for people working over 30. I think it's it's too. It's I just want to be clear when we say people don't get benefits That a lot of people who aren't getting benefits Are not right now working at the number of hours That in in most people's minds would qualify you may be eligible for the organization or the employer's benefits And that's that's a different conversation. It's a change of the model really right to say what we want to do is be working with You know instead of however many Um per diems. We actually want to build a full time with overtime within reason because safety is an issue full time staff with benefits Be a reliable employer, but I understand we're not there yet. I just want to just get to No, but say change pay rates based on different defined jobs. I'm asking you just because as a labor defined Do you guys have a And we guys can we get to their proposals so we can react to it? What is your proposal? Okay, thank you for clarifying that three or four people work more than 30 Yeah, it may be more than four people. I don't have the numbers It's not everybody who works it's it's not But in saying that those people that might be working 50 hours might turn around and work 20 hours Or 25 hours because of the pay might be a little bit better here than pick up a per diem job at Stowe Because we're paying a little bit more I Yes, I want to the clarification on benefits and I agree we should turn to the proposal Yeah, okay, so to the bottom line here. So what where is it? I gave you the the rates Okay, we know it hasn't been it's been many years. So what we are proposing is That in our budget that 348 thousand dollar budget For the beginning january 1st until the end of the fiscal period june 30th That we will that we will provide an increase for these people at seven and a half percent And we're going to use What we are not spending in that budget because it because we can't fill those ships So we're kind of concentrating on keeping the people we got right So you're not going to go over budget because you don't have enough people to go over. So toby has given me It's not seven and a half percent. What he he wrote down a dollar 50 Increase very similar to what I'm talking about, but it's not exact And so we would be needing to come up with 21 000 dollars 21 000 25 in that range to come up for the rest of the fiscal right for us to pay that increase from June 30, so you mean 21 five in addition to the 340 We we we can handle we can handle that that that's uh that amount of money So the 348 covers it beyond that point to retain it Yeah, so the next year the fiscal year the full fiscal year after that which is Which is what the proposal is to keep it at 348 that we think Because the first time I just said is six months. Yeah, it's not 21 000. It's half that Oh Yeah, so the next fiscal year it's to cover that we can we can cover that 21 five again So we'll be able to cover that Within the 346 the 348 budget and still be even if we had more people coming in to fill in some more shifts We think that we can still handle it So can I just f y 23 this fiscal year that we're in it would be half of this 21 five Right. Yeah, because it's only six months And we can handle it for the fiscal fiscal year after that At that 348 now. This is where the change is coming in Because they because the increases have not been coming every year what we are asking to increase the budget for the next fiscal year the Five five percent And for f y 24. Yeah, I give the five percent raise on top of by 7.5 Wait a minute We would we would continue to pay We would continue to pay that increase The seven and a half percent into the end of the fiscal year So this would be for f y 23 And then f y 24 the whole year it would be the 7.5 percent that we are taking care of plus five percent and we're asking you guys to add five percent So you were we're actually as We're adding the raise for that right you're covering. We're covering this is to bring this is to kind of bring this to So it'd be the 7.5 plus the five and the five percent you're asking from the towns So we're going to need to increase the budget So that's 340 that 348 is not covering everything. It's going to go up. So 348 It's actually I can tell you what it's going to go up. It's a product I get a we've got to run these numbers closer But it's going to your part would probably be about 14,500 Total yeah That's so it'd be 14,000 for callus or for both for the combined combined the combined And that will give another five percent raise July 1st Another five percent rates. So, okay. I'm sorry for being such a dust here I get it So is that going to bump the salary line up from 348? Yeah, I took by 15 by say 15,000 Well, but it's it's not exact he's right because I did percentages here Toby did one hour raise So it's not exact. Yeah, okay. So when the budget is redone What it will show is the last line the fiscal year 24 is going to go up 348 plus I would say Yeah, so it will be whatever that is. Okay, and what you're saying is breaking it down You're proposing That you guys are going to cover A seven and a half percent raise for the last six months of the fiscal year And then you guys will keep that seven and a half paying This seven and a half percent. So in addition, we will pay the two towns Five percent more, which is 14,000 bucks. Is that so that is the 21,000 extra the global of what you're going to do for 24 and the towns contribute 15,000 No, no, no Yeah, it's going to be it's extra that that's why the 348 They're saying that they can absorb their share of the rate, which is the 215 the 215 They can absorb it in the 348 and maybe even still increase the number of hours That's enough what they can't absorb Is is a five percent in addition to the seven and a half percent and that five percent Would comes out to 14,000 From between the two towns You know looking ahead because we probably want to build some kind of I mean we've been running into this with We're increasing everything else that we completely understand You know this to keep this competitive that we would probably Standardize this somewhat. I don't know. Maybe not maybe it's we have to watch the year for work. That's just going to be an ongoing So will you so will you send us a new? Yeah, I'll have toby brought the The exact figures because because that includes all of the taxes and purpose comp all of that stuff is in that Say 14 to 15. Yeah, it's all in it. Yeah, it's not all It's not just out guys Do you have any like expectation going forward? Because you haven't had increases for a while Anticipating that every x number of years we're going to give a cost of living increase or you know, is there just What we've been talking about in terms of trends, you know in terms of our planning That well now they're going to be more competitive. They recognize that they're you know a lot of people out there municipalities need skilled trained EMTs and we want to keep ours. We want to keep them. We can't just throw them a bone one year We have to make sure that they continue to feel valued So every year we give them like 10 cents more an hour or something to gradually And not such parts of all that once This is yeah, it's going to be a Program set up or not program Every year or every other year Well, this helps us if we're able to We talk to the townspeople, you know, because we wouldn't be why ask questions in town Meaning that gives us something like they said this is completely reasonable if we want to have this service Yeah, we've got to be competitive. We have to be able to order staff. We do know we've fought this battle with the crew So, you know, they all and this is a nice way of making the expense increase predictable So I think what you're hearing from us I think we're fine with it. If you want a reaction from us You've got well, we're hoping because I definitely I do want to get you to the exact Yeah, that's right. I think what I'm hearing We're okay with it. We're gonna get anything like and I think it's smart Yeah, it's a valuable service. Yeah, right. Yes. Yeah, and it yeah, to be said, you know, we're ready to do this So the other thing that I don't want to do until you guys actually both towns, I guess is I don't want to put it out That these guys are going to getting getting a 5% raise in July 1st Until you guys until it's all voted through the town. So I kind of want to keep it on the download Right Oh We won't tell anybody Based on voter Yeah, we could ask for a million bucks and you say, yeah, you'll get it and the voter said no, you're not I think it would be fair for you You're going to tell them they're getting the seven and a half. That should be huge. Yeah. Yeah, right And and if they say well, we heard we're going to get another 5% all you have to do is say We propose that the select board members that To the voters in the new year boards have to take the budgets to the voters. That's a better way What I said, right Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, yeah, so it wasn't as hard as I thought was it. Well, it's it's uh I tell you the last three or four nights I wake up during the night looking at all these numbers that Toby gave me And then he won't be here and Albert just come back from that that accident also you finally got here Very friendly approach There was a meeting I think when you You guys came to me And there was some conversation about recruitment incentives, right? Maybe offering a property tax, Alex brought it up. Oh, yes I also spoke at the meeting in here. Yes, right. Yeah property tax Okay People in our towns to sort of like So you use the word program. Yep Had you guys given any more thoughts or something like that because I thought that was a fabulous idea Well, it wasn't it was a great idea. So you and Alex brought it up and it's on my list of things for tonight um What do we want the only question I had Is is the veterans exemption thing is that a law There's a law or can we as towns adopt and ask for my lawyer friends Can do we have there might be a lot do we have to like you put it in a charter? Or can we just pass some policy? I mean, I don't know And they would have to be our list you would at least need to have a charter change because municipalities don't have that Right. I mean, that's not the we can't charge different people. We can't credit different I don't think that's you know under Dillon's law. I don't think that's one of you know one of the rights that the legislature has so it would be a charge change But you know at a minimum we could we could I mean if we're going to give someone a tax credit That's just the same as writing a check. That's right. So We could say if they said we would like to have a thousand dollar Uh incentive for someone Etc. And we approved it as part of the budget then that would be that Well, but then you run into Yeah people only in our town versus no, no, that's what I'm saying is is Even if you can't do it. Let's say we can't do it. We can do the equivalent By just telling him to offer a bonus a hiring bonus. Could it be a callous resident? Well, it could be a callous resident or it could not. Yeah, I mean Oh could the town of callous offer a bonus to our own residents who serve as If we gave a bonus to our own residents who serve x number of hours per year On the East Montpelier or Wardbury cruise Why couldn't we do that? We could do that. We just build it into our budget. Are they And uh, we filmed it there But it comes out it comes out the same and would we have to put This on the morning. We'd have to put it in our budget that we are working on right now We'd have to say but we'll assume that we'd pay it three times. Well, no, my question is is this have to be a warned item It'd be part of our budget. That would be awesome to warn it though because it would create the buzz So how much Maybe I want to move the callous. I live in East Montpelier. I couldn't move the callous Right We're just going to give a bonus Say if you if you had a callous, you know tax per resident who volunteered so many hours Minimum hour that we used to if they volunteered that time or they I think whatever we should what we should do is go back As a board and develop the questions that we want to ask you guys which is how many people Do have serving who live in the town of callous if you even yeah, we give them what number of hours On a monthly or annual basis. Well, yes, do you consider? Credible for You know somebody who's really a contributing member of the crew one number of hours would form a useful incentive I don't know the questions like that that we could ask you you can answer them and that will help us develop a budget for Set bonus, but I think what I heard from either senior alex Was you have of some kind of a guideline already a stipend policy So maybe you're you could you give us can we see your stipend policy? I'll tell you what the stipend policy is and I think I have it It's You have to attend 50 percent Of the meetings Now meetings meeting meetings number meetings how many are there are one a month our one a month meeting All other meetings are considered trainings Okay, whether it's ems or if it's fire, but you have to attend 50 percent So that means if there's 12 a year well We don't include december because we give out the stipend in november and in november So we can only see it from january until november So so there's no no record of the december so 50 percent of the meetings you'd qualify But you also have to to qualify 50 of the trainings so if you have four trainings a month in january You have two in jan in february you got three and you we add them all up We know how many trainings there are you have to make 50 percent of them say it's Uh, you know 50 trainings you have to make at least 25 of them or you don't get a stipend because you do both You have to make both Criteria's or whatever to qualify for a stipend So we you but it when it came time to do this at the end of the fiscal year or Whatever if we decide to do this you would have that information we could get that information from you Obviously we have to Are we talking about When they're trying to hire new people No, nothing to do. This is nothing to do with the per diem people This is the volunteer firefighters and not volunteer ems, right? Uh Well In a sense you would if you're like we have members we have we have okay. I'm a member If on a training night that they're doing truck checks But they have ems training the same night. I'm going to be in the ems training Okay, I classify that as i'm here that night for training. I'm counted as a training night Even though I did not do fire everybody So we have one training list and everybody gets checked off whether you have volunteer ems people, right? Yes, I guess you want it. You can say that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, why don't we we could keep it simple by starting with fire Oh So so but but at the end of the day The people people that live in callas That volunteered here would be getting two checks No, just just why would they be getting two checks? They'd be getting it from us. Oh, right, right, but that's sorry Yeah, but but we're looking to set it right We're looking for ways to help with an incentive And I would hope that east mumpire does the same that they somehow put something in the policy Very similar to yours or like yours. So it's equal across the board for our east mumpire I would tell us people what I like about that too is that this is a kind of thing I don't know what happens to the people that live in plainfield and marshfield that volunteer Oh, they might follow the town, but they don't come out of our pool of money Well, I think the thing there is that this also The you know, this is a kind of thing that can actually be make this a little more visible in the towns because Oh, we might not see the stipends, but then at town meeting we can put them in the town report And we can put them Yeah And you know, we do recognize right and that's uh, that's we could actually give them a good check At town meeting correct. Yeah, we could Correct I like I mean that may help It may help right feed the pool of volunteers I don't think you have a whole lot to do with east mumpire fire because I think you only got one member Yeah, but this right now The whole idea is to incentivize and we would do we would do it for woodbury too Right. Yeah sure. We too All across the board So you guys like that idea? We do we do whatever you can do for people to help us retain and get new members Don't tell anybody because we haven't really sorted it out yet, right? No, no one's going to know Well, except if they watch Is there anything that you need from us tonight? Mark's tired. He's had a long day. Um No, because Albert's got some information that he wants to share I just had a question about getting back to how Calus would think about doing this where would they funnel the money to us? No, the checks would come to from us And we would do the idea do my town meeting take photos put them in the next year's town report You know, let's Yeah, we should I think this really is an opportunity to show that relationship between the town My fire department and the people. Thank you. Yeah. No, it helps build the relationship all the way around And we're going to do the same for woodbury. Just so it's on record. Thank you Pretty much all the ems folks When they respond to a call They receive a minimum amount. It's like a per call thing It's 18 dollars or whatever. So but the people on staff get paid by the hour So that that call takes three hours So i'm better off doing shifts here i'm retired I did four calls today. I punched in I did four calls You did four calls. Wow Yeah, and this is a really busy time of year with the aging population and Anyway, sorry. Do you have anything else? Well, I want to ask one more question Your stipend policy ties to meetings and trainings. How do you how do you then? Loop in actually serving. So we're talking about people who are volunteers They go on vacation. They work How do you I mean the number of calls. Yeah, like number of calls or shifts that you're available or whatever That's not part of your stipend. It's not part of your stipend Not now this time. No, it's kind of hard to track how many Brad nut Brown does for instance a good hired firefighter How many calls he goes on because we aren't punching clocks and stuff and you're showing up from home And showing up from home where a meeting night we have a roster you check in And on a work night, we have a roster and we're checking them off We check in with calls too, but because calls happen 24 seven Like you said, you you never know where people are. Can they are they available to respond? We didn't feel like it was fair to penalize them for that when But at least the the Tuesday nights You try and make that your free night to say I'm committed to the firehouse. I'm going there for training and meetings And and it follows or it follows that people show up for trainings and show right they're going to show up for They will show up for calls if they're available And that's that's very accurate too really the folks there are a few that come to meetings But and don't come as many calls, but for the most part the ones that come to training And work nights come the calls, right? So we can just ask you every Whenever we decide to do this we can just ask you to confirm who should get this Right, what I want to say this We don't you know, the whole goal is to really Build membership of participation So even the people that don't get it they may be that if we even just Honor the acknowledges people and something like it's how meetings. Thank you for your service. These people are standing up They've done, you know X number of calls roughly and You know for the people to know that and then see some getting never worked because they put in more That that could be a pretty effective. So one of your things you need to look at That is a negative aspect of it is somebody that puts in Comes out to be 47 percent And not 50 percent. Yeah, we might have to have a little wiggle room You maybe do too I don't think so I mean if the numbers are such that 47 percent is a thing then don't be 47 be 60 Well, no, it's just that one of our members Committed 47 percent But did other things Okay, but did a lot of other things But eliminated that person Because he didn't meet him But he would have on this side over here because he did a lot of extra stuff You could say but you came to all the calls Or you What's that No, no But we could be having a little wiggle room if somebody did a lot of extra I've turned it down. Honestly, we don't have There's no reason we there's no reason I turned it down because I did not want to get caught into that Well, there's no reason we wouldn't necessarily have to use your 50 percent, right? We could say 30 percent whatever Yeah, whatever you come up with right now. I just wanted your policy is your policy That's right Well, you know what we need to talk about this more right at another day because I think everybody's When I'm on the five months of the year, that's why I'm that's why it was I didn't make it Our policy also says that the board has no authority to We give it to the search like if the guy's active duty military He's away for five months. Yeah, then it shows up and makes all of it, but it's short I'm not going to keep him So the board does have discretion one last question. This would be for the prior fiscal, correct because Like we you won't have a year They won't have the hours at a current fiscal If you follow me, I mean where we'd be budgeting for the next year that's where the money I mean when we award this at a town meeting, we still don't have Current fiscal numbers It would be fiscal 23 If we get up in 23 and give people awards It would be for 22 Yeah, for us it's half and half Because that's your priority for the year But we can we can talk about this more and figure it out In more detail, yeah, so okay, so I'm going to get a hold of tobi to run those numbers for me So the exact number, yeah, and the trends and all the trends. Yeah, yes, I'll have them That may take a while, but we'll work on that If you could email to all of us. Yep. No, I did get your email about sending it to everybody. I don't have everybody's email That's why you didn't do it Yeah, I don't have everybody You probably you have my share of things, right? They're on line now. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We'll Well, no, I'll if you send it to me. I'll respond include everybody And then you'll have everybody's email Do you need that too? You want judy to whatever she sends out to she's going to have I'm going to send this a lot Or minutes to her once I've got them She's going to send me the minute she takes tonight. Yeah Okay, so whatever I have to send out you'll send me the Everybody's email so that in the future you can just send it to me. That's really where I was going is right It would be great if everybody got it and people who go on person who gets it Because you open an email and realize on the one person who got this. Yeah Do you want the same thing All the select boards What I'll do I'm just going to send you and judy An email tonight include the rest of the select board saying Here's everybody's email addresses and then you'll have Okay 35