 Stuff that your clients won't tell you this isn't like a technical thing. It's more of like a psychological thing so it's kind of like Yeah, it's like if you were talking to a person who isn't paying you like what Insecurities they might have I did I blurred out any any curse words. I may have felt like putting in there a Lot of these are gonna overlap just because that's how humans work. So Kind of there's some subtle differences between the points. I'm gonna make but Also, let me know if I'm talking too fast. That's just a thing I do So, please feel free to stop me and be like maybe breathe sometime During this All right, so let's let me tell you about myself. I should know this but I'm gonna read it from the slide I'm 25. I'll be 26 at some point, but Presently I'm 25. I've been using WordPress since 2004. I've been building educating speak-in and whatnot The name tag that you'll see me wearing in addition to my lanyard is actually from bed bath and beyond It's just really convenient Actually, you should all get name tags from someplace. You can even ask me about coupons if you would want to But I might get grumpy about it And then if you've seen me speak before, you know, my dog Olive who might feature in every presentation Right now you actually have to go to www.clientproofwp.com The domain is fighting me for some reason which It's ironic given the plug-in. I'll tell you more about it later You find me on Twitter at Corey Freeman. I've been tweeting all weekend and my personal blog hashtag Corey if you Want to read other semi-vulgar things? All right, let's start at the beginning clients are human people Okay, so, you know, let's assume you've got a client not like a swarm of client not like a legion of clients or agencies Not you know, not like a battalion just like a client a person who's paying you You know, you're sitting in the room with them. They're staring at a laptop or drinking coffee or whatever people do And you know, they're they've got the same insecurities that you have So what are they thinking? You know, why are they like this? Why do they hate you and make things harder? For you and yourself. I just added these gifts last minute. I felt I had to Try and keep you guys engaged here Look, let's talk about so these are points. We're gonna talk about To kind of see you understand the mentality behind the people who are driving you crazy You know because some we all have that one client here like why am I having to do this? And it's probably because of one of these reasons Clients tend to assume that you think that they're stupid Okay, they also assume that they are stupid, but more importantly is that they take that insecurity and project it on to you Okay, so clients who can't figure out an issue the people who hire you in the first place for whatever it is You specialize in are trying to shield themselves from embarrassment kind of like when you go to the dentist And you don't want to tell them that you haven't flossed in forever Like you want to go in there and pretend that you floss even though they can tell You know so it's you want to reassure your clients that they're not like you're not stupid You know this isn't your jam like we we're doing the wordpress you pay us money to do the wordpress But don't become their therapist because that can't happen Okay, you want to adopt your radio silence whenever they start getting personal just reassure them But don't don't actually go get coffee with them you guys Don't mix friendship and and work you either won't get paid or you won't have a friend anymore Some of you know that and some of you are like is that that's a real thing it happens. I promise you Yeah, they might also use they'll use humor like oh my gosh You know I'm so dumb that I couldn't even do this or like I'm like an old grandmother And it's like no you can learn anything if you really want to they just you know they don't want to learn this so don't take that route and Let them continue to think that way All right, and clients know what they want just not how to do it Okay, so clients are gonna look at you and be like let's just do this thing. I don't care what it is All right, this is from one of my favorite animus There's a generic mindset that Clients don't know what they want we all get into that some of us will have said it during our talk Some of us will chat about it like clients don't they do clients do know what they want But they have no idea how to make it work. Okay, so like don't be afraid to gently tell them The reason we're not putting a slideshow on is because they don't what nobody's watching it You know, so let's pick this image that really speaks to you I know you've seen slide shows on like Forbes and whatnot, but I'm telling you man The data says it doesn't work. You know clarify the vision through your experience work with them Remember that you know what you're talking about All right, don't Don't let them kind of hassle you but don't be mean about it That's the end of what that was gonna say Someone bring me more coffee. That'd be great. I'll give you a coupon. I think I have a circular in my backpack Clients want to be helpful. This is part of their like Feeling dumb to reassure themselves is that they want to help you Okay, so they want to sit there and watch you while you work Just carefully peering until finally you go insane. This is from full metal alchemist also a great show All right, so they're gonna be anyone gotten the email. That's like I found this I think it'll help Yes, I see a couple of nods and hand raises Yeah, they'll send you like a link to the fact for WordPress itself like this is really helpful knowledge I'm like, I know They'll send you just a link to stack overflow calm. They're like look here for solutions That's because they want to achieve their goals just as much as you do and they want to help like they want to make this They want to be involved and they want to make it easy and they're afraid that they're Not doing it right again. Hold fast to your knowledge. You're the expert just hang in there All right gently educate reassure them that they're not stupid, you know, it'd be like, thanks. I got this They're right experience. Yeah. All right clients also want to feel professional 30 rock. No. Yeah, 30 rock. I was thinking third rock from the Sun just now You know, but everyone you're building a website because you want to get that feeling that professional feeling You know, you want to see an obvious difference between when they started and like sign that contract or did that deposit? so when they sign off on it, you know and For a lot of clients depending on your work process, this can look like magic to them, you know, and that's confusing. It's um, there's an old There's a couple of old things. So there's an old Thing that they explored with cake mix it used to be that you could just add water to cake mix and it would make you a cake and People hated that nobody felt it was personal enough. So they added a step So now you have to add like water and milk and egg to get the cake Even though you don't really have to it's a little bit of theater, you know There's also Like the locksmith you call a locksmith They charge you 50 bucks to take some two seconds to open the lock like you want them to take a little bit longer Just to make you feel better Clients want to feel professional, you know, they want to feel like they've Really gotten in there and this can be second-guessing you, you know What are you sure that this is the right font face because I've been looking at it Are you sure that this is the color like I said this will overlap, you know, just Stay confident. Don't let all of those questions tear you down Just hang in there, right like you're a parent to a client basically. I Guess I'm not a parent Saying that though clients don't really want to learn how to build websites. Okay. How does this work? Fighting spirit That's how it works. You got it's a good show you guys Oh, you know your clients like oh snacks. Thanks Yeah Thank you That's so nice. Oh, man. Now. I gotta find a coupon They're gonna watch in my car and get that $10 off We'll I'll figure it out. I promise give me your Twitter. We're gonna figure this out Oh god, it's so needed that that girl wins she wins word cam You can have this shirt that I got it's a medium It's a medium fun fact You know you clients don't really want to learn you look at them You're like we're gonna use WordPress because it's a content management system and it's got like millions of uses It powers 30% of the web then nobody cares. Okay, they don't care They don't want to understand how to update it. They don't really want to log into the back end They just want to like change the words around Don't confuse this with not teaching your client anything like from before. Okay, don't don't not tell them things just remember They don't want to they don't want to hear the theory you'll go to a bunch of different design websites You'd be like here's our process exciting, but I don't really want to know all of the processes You know if I want you to do my SEO you don't have to start telling me about redirects and links and backlinks and Spiders and crawling and all that I'm hiring you to press all the fancy buttons for me You know and that you know still same thing Setbacks fear and insecurity the reason they don't want to learn, but they want to feel like they've learned It all stems from fear The greatest thing some clients are gonna assume that you think you're better than they are You know they're gonna say you think I'm stupid you think you're better than me You know I blame you for all of my issues road to El Dorado You're not okay clients again fear they you know what you're doing They don't know what they're doing. They think you're better than them So this is a little fun mental exercise if you and your client sat down at the coffee table And you could both punch each other in the face. You're on the same level Okay, you both have the same level of humanity That's I was like 2 a.m. I think when I came up with that one's not my best, but whatever We're all we're all humans. Don't don't fight your clients on things Okay, here are possible takeaways from what I'm sure has been like five minutes Most client frustration comes from fear and insecurity and the best way to combat that frustration is to hold fast to your experience Okay, clients aren't stupid. They just want clarification, but they don't want to learn All right, they just want to know what's happening All right, our job is to build functional websites for them help them achieve their goals not to fight them on What we think it should look like Also shameless plug. Yay So I built a plug-in you have to put the WWW before it apparently which is great And it's basically it's just a wordpress plug-in that makes the dashboard From confusing to shiny and happy for the client so you can go about your business without them breaking stuff That was apparently all of my slides. I am so prepared. Let's have a group discussion Anyone any questions No, all right. Yes Of course I can Let's just turn into an awkward demonstration. Let's see here. That's not what I want. I have a blog good for me Let's imagine that this is your clients blog, you know, you log in you get all this stuff I don't think any of it is gonna Give you any way to hack into my site. So you do have to log out and then So this is what the client would see if they logged in It's still in beta. So it's it's gonna get shinier and happier. I promise But they would be able to basically manage copy being where the pages are They can edit the pages but can't publish new ones. So they can't fill up with about twos and threes and etc They can add new posts, which I've renamed to articles for clarification And they can upload media like photos There'll be other stuff there will be you looking at the cartoon version of me the glasses version or my set month You see you guys pointing at my photos. I mean, it's not that exciting and then from The developer side of it. Well, that's not this so tiny You would go into users you would pick the user that you wanted and You would change them to a client, which is the role that's built in that controls all that So it's pretty it's pretty straightforward in terms of Usability well button pressing I should say Let's see Trying to think of good examples. Yeah Yeah, you should only use it if you're the one doing the maintenance or You can hand it off to someone. It's not a permanent fix So once you deactivate the plug-in and set their rollback they can do Everything or if you just set their rollback. I'm trying to think of a good example Like Absolutely, yeah Yeah, it's got a good point I This reminds me recently so I if you ever see my car It's got the Trump bumper sticker on it says I don't know not Trump though 2018 or something I don't know whenever the election was I'm so good at adulting you guys I But my my car is a piece of shit. Let's I said semi vulgar. There we go Yeah, I delivered on my promise So I had to it started like just dying so I took it to fire so and now it's like I don't know what I'm doing. So please take and fix my car You know I spent $200 for them to clean a hose and then the thing died again And I walk in and the guys looking at me like I'm a moron and so that doesn't make me feel very comfortable Now I'm pissed off. I want to tell this guy off. I didn't I didn't yell at the Firestone man But I wanted to And so instead I got a recommendation from my friend and I went to a smaller shop They fixed my car. They didn't make me feel dumb They told me exactly what was wrong with it and now it works, you know, I spent the same amount of money They fixed my car. They changed my oil. They put air in my tires. I should really think about all those things more often Lake and that's the biggest difference is you know, I still don't know How the car works? I don't know why I need to replace brake pads, but it sounds very important, you know But like it doesn't matter I don't want to know where the brake pad goes and I only vaguely want to know how to change the oil out You know, but they made me feel comfortable and they were like explaining parts of the process, you know Like this thing controls the computer in your car The reason it shuts off is that this little part thought that you didn't need any power and you need all the power You know, so I still don't know what part they fixed, but I understand the concept behind them fixing it And I'm sure you guys have encountered stuff like that like again going to the dentist that sucks You know, they're like we need to fix this because your teeth are gonna fall out I don't want to know anything else other than that important fact like if we don't do this, you're gonna lose your teeth That's all I want any questions personal experiences My mother my mother encouraged me to write this so My and I also have built websites for friends and the biggest thing is I'll build a website and they'll be like, oh great It's shiny and happy. It looks great. And of course Huh Okay, yeah, um I have no idea what that was good. Thank you for laughing. I don't know what's happening. I haven't finished this yet Yes, okay, thank you. Thank you for adding that literary Tag on it. Got it now. Yeah. No, um, except it's you know, it's the opposite they're always like, can you show me how to do this or am I paying you to do it or what's going on and You know, I am I'm kind of starting over some of you if you've seen me before you know that I was part of the headway debacle Which was so great. They Adam Silver reminded me and I was like, I really thought that nobody remembered that anymore but apparently some people do and So It's just this whole thing. I'm starting over from scratch I'm thinking about all the issues I've had in the past the biggest one is people Clients updating their websites and clients like my mom. I love my mom My mom is by no means like a stupid person at all. All right, she's brilliant. She's really good at what she does She does not care how the website gets built. She just wants to add new pictures from her business Same thing with my artist friend. She doesn't really care how the website works. She just wants to update her webcomic and I was looking for solutions I'm googling like client proof and then I'm getting like photography proofing plugins, which I got nothing And so I started like grabbing bits of code and I thought to myself I could just like compile it all I don't really want to use the I don't know what the user I think it's just called user permissions or something or user role editor where it's got like Every single client role you could ever want and just checkboxes. I didn't really want to do that every time I built a website and so I was like, what's the easiest thing? What are other things, you know, why are people going to Squarespace and Wix when they're so irritating? It's because they just want to change the text, you know My mom just wants to change the text and add some photos and they thought if I can build a plug-in then why not? Also, I'm starting a web design business and I wanted that to be consistent So there you go. Ray, that's why you can thank my mother. Thank Like to thank my mom for everything I Well, actually I spent a really long time doing training so I did I Had I would generate screencasts and direct them to that or I'd make tutorials and direct them to that I have a bad habit of starting from scratch. So like That's my giant issue, but I The thing is it's again coming back to they don't necessarily want to learn all this So by the point I'm telling them log in hit this button hit that button. They're always stuck at like log in, you know I prefer to work with bigger. I try doing bigger jobs like agency level jobs. I'm just me and I'm Bad at teamwork. So I was like, I just want to work with small businesses and help them out And that's the biggest roadblock is they don't They don't know how to update and they don't have time to update because they're running their own businesses I did spend I used to spend a lot of time being like Here's WordPress. Here's why it's awesome. You know, here's how you would log in and edit and this and that and it's just Overwhelming to beginners not everyone's gonna come in here and listen to these talks and do this and that So even I'm saying I try to train my clients as thoroughly as possible, but that's only effective if they want to be trained So does it wind up that then they'll say Basically, yeah, and all the ones down to then they look at you and they go, you know Can you just do this and that's the trade-off you get is like do I spend more hours helping this client? Or do I try and set up more and keep maintenance? It's it's a trade-off of your time as well Bless you. I guess Say bless you when people cough. That's okay. And do it. You know, it's your life. Do whatever you want bodily autonomy Any other questions suggestions thoughts Use my me My dad I'm really bad at following the comedy world. Honestly. I am I Don't really look up to any comedians because I don't really compare myself to the ability to get up there, but See I too have self-esteem issues. We're all humans. All right. We're all people No No, you get out sir no This dream ever do wordpress. I haven't heard dream ever in years and now I'm just I'm just having PTSD about it Remember the Mac web app that was a fun time. Oh, man. Yeah, it was a good one. They got rid of it though Yeah, yeah All the frames all the frames Yes, I too was there when websites were tables. Yes How do you a lot of it is and I've the great thing about doing customer support all the time is that you get to meet a Bunch of frustrated people. So the first thing is just to listen. You don't necessarily have to do like deep listening You don't you don't have to invest emotionally like you might with like a TV show But people like to feel listen to Look, I'm not here To start shipping you and your husband and figuring out all your drama No, they're they're pissed off because they don't know what they're doing and they don't feel listen to and so you kind of sit back And you hear their frustrations and you have to think too and you can't say don't say the word just clients Freakin hate the word just I Don't know I think if you like think about it You're like that is kind of a kind of an oddly rude word Just as a four-letter word All right, there we go Corey Freeman just as a four-letter word Autograph there's something I don't know So first you you listen to them you let them air their frustrations Maybe stop them if they start spiraling out of control, but you know get let them kind of Run themselves down and then be like all right. Well, how how can we fix this? You know, don't assign or take blame either It's just like remembering you are still a service provider You are the professional you do know what you're talking about and you kind of have to shift your way around that So like if I have a client I had a client that was pissed off that you couldn't just Click whatever you wanted on the web page and make it move where you wanted it to you know You can't just go to a website and move it around. He's like why isn't the internet at that point? Where I don't have to log in or anything I had a client get mad at me about the concept of html Yeah, no, I had a grown man yell at me Because he didn't want to learn what an image tag was and I was like all right So when I you know when I started out, I didn't know html I didn't know CSS and I was vehemently against learning CSS and SEO. I was like I don't need any of this stuff to build websites. I Was like 12 You know and it gets to that point and it's like you have to you kind of have to reframe it for them The reason you don't want to use html is because a the product you're using someone said to you This is for beginners and they thought absolute beginning like dead bottom and so when you're like all right Well, I understand and there's not necessarily a workaround for this, but we can make it easier You know I can condense it we can do all the metaphors you want make some fun illustrations But Basically, the only thing you can do if the client starts giving you shit is take it You know until it gets to a point that I said the s-word again Until it gets to a point that they're like attacking you personally in that case You just cut off the relationship and move on not worth it, but if they're just spun up You just kind of wait for them to calm down Yes, I have had to fire a client before it was great. I'm gonna tell you the story now. I Love to tell stories. This is just a chance for me to talk to you about anything. I want Throw in the word client from time to time So I did I had a client She purported to know Anne Rice and like Wrote an expose on Hillary Clinton like this 800 page. I don't know and She would she hired me to do consulting so we were screencasting over Skype and I was kind of showing her what buttons to press to get to this and that you know and she At one point I don't remember what I said probably something Something along the lines of you know, we've only got an hour Maybe we should shift focus from like you telling me about Hillary Clinton and Anne Rice and You day-to-day live with your husband, and you're like you don't want to go to Martha's Vineyard again this year. Whatever I That's fine. It's fine But like if you want to learn maybe we should focus your session on the actual job if I had me to do and she just Exploded blew up at me so mad if I you know, I'm paying you and I can use my time however I want and I was like nope and I refunded her her hourly the hourly fee that she had paid for the hour And I said if you want to yell at me you can do it for free and I'm gonna yell back Yes, I fired a client before because there's no real reason and there was also there was a client I should have fired And it was again the kind of guy who was like oh, I'm better than you because I can do this and you know But I'm stupid because I can't do this And at some point I was just like this is just not worth the drain on my time This is a guy who skyped me to tell me To send him instructions from Google to fix his home network like this is so his next level doormatting in my early career Next level okay, my doormat game is 100 Let me tell you that so I have a lot of experience dealing with stuff like that So when you have a client who you fire and they kind of nowadays the social media of the way it is They are always going to talk Yes, so there are two ways to deal with negative comments Obviously the first is to respond to your first issues your first instinct is To defend yourself like how dare that person speak poorly about me And the second thing you can do is just ignore it just let it go, you know And the great thing about letting it go is it gets to a point where you You have to do so well that they can't ignore you basically you have to be so good that they can't Ignore you and then someone if you're doing the right thing Someone else will come in and stick up for you and at some point the positivity will outweigh the negativity you get nothing from engaging With someone who's at that point there if they're bad mouthing you on social media They're already done with you and they just want to cause you like strife So it's you can just just let it go just let them, you know Until they start like attacking you personally Yeah, some people are crazy Particular red flags Red flags the first and foremost This guy's losing it over here. He's like look these are all the thoughts. I've been saying for years Someone finally put it on a PowerPoint It's just it's just Google slides sir. You can do this Biggest red flag is if they argue with you about price Okay, if you're like this is the price and they read I don't remember I think it was Ashley aim bridge Or someone who was like the hot dog theory a hot dog cost this much and that's it Nobody argues over the price of a hot dog same thing like red flag. They're trying to haggle you second red flag Is they over it's it kind of like dating they're trying to hang out with you they over contact you or they disappear like it's It's the same as with any red flag like if you went into a business Yourself and you're like oh, I see tattoo artists, but they're not wearing gloves It's kind of like an instinctual thing like it's not necessarily that you need to look for specific behaviors And there are some specific behaviors like like the haggling like the over communicating Them telling you oh, I'm shopping around to try and manipulate you But it's also a gut instinct you can tell when someone is like not Gonna be a good fit for you and you should just trust your gut instinct because as much as we all like making money It's it gets to a point where your personal well-being is and we The keynote speaker talked about this too in the beginning where she was like mental health And it's a lot of mental health going around in the WordPress community. Are you guys? Okay, by the way It's the second year the keynote has been about mental health I just want to make sure everyone's fine feel free to contact me I'll give you one of my autographed business cards will be great sir Yeah, I'm gonna let him answer that because he looks like he knows the answer Yeah, I've always been bad at contracts. I'm still I Like chalk slash white boards. Can you tell? Thank you for saving me from having to admit that I don't know That's one of my personal feelings is a yes, and I don't know Don't do improv That's okay. Yeah, there's I should do improv. They don't this isn't about me. This is about clients Said that we're clients and last five minutes good still on topic Good good for me Let's see here. I think we got a couple minutes We got like two minutes before you guys can go wait. No, I like we have like several more minutes than two What time is it? My talk is over at 12 20 Okay, process of developing my plug-in is I googled all the things I wanted to be able to do and then Stitch them all together with my experience. I'm so bad at this What what parts of the process were you interested in? Yeah, so it's that last one. I decided to build the because I I Was looking into business models and I was like all right the most profitable business model seems to be offering the hosting and the management yourself for a select few clients and I was like all right But then they're gonna log in and break something and then I'm gonna have to fix it You know and I thought well, what will set me will make them want me as opposed to like doing it with wicks and Squarespace And again, they don't care about the WordPress community necessarily or like all the development and so I was like well Maybe I can find something that'll make it Easier for them to use and then when I couldn't I was like maybe I can build something That'll make it easier for them to use and so that was kind of so I sat down and I was like all right What do I what did they ask me? To want to do what do clients usually want to do after you've got the whole process and development through and it's They want to change the text in the images And if they really put in energy, they want to blog but I haven't I have yet to have a normal client Be like I want to change the layout After the process had been complete like after the website had been built I haven't had anyone be like oh, I suddenly want an overhaul or I want this to go there, you know It's not Until months later if they're even doing any user testing that they decide to change things like that Words that you've changed on the back end to make it a little more. Yeah How did you research that first or did you just come up with that on your own? So based on the cumulative experience that I've gotten through consulting and whatnot Another general question that pops up all the time. What is the difference between a page and a post? You know and so clients will go in and they'll just start adding pages because that's what we think of It's a web page. We're going to this web page and that web page You know or like oh, I've just posted a blog and that's always driven me crazy like it's a blog post not you can't post the whole blog That's fine. And so it's like okay. Well what other terms that I understand, you know edit manage your website copy Those are the pages at it add in the article. That's your blog, you know Upload photos it just says media if you go into the WordPress back ends and Nobody know it's like the hamburger menu. Sure. I know what media means, but it's confused. So just photos. Just add your photos Just stuff like that. It's basically what Over time it's what people have asked me and what I've run into Because I one time I had a person ask me like what is a redirection? Stuff like that. So I started at the very beginning and I was like what? What is my mom not know how to do and that's no detriment to I know we had an issue yesterday where someone was like do the grandma test. It's not a sex It's just like literally it was my specifically my mom know how to and what not to do And so that's I was just like how do I make my life less stressful so she's not calling me constantly ray Poorly Poorly Clients that don't want to listen often you can't I've mostly let them cool down so that I could sit back and figure it out And I try to figure out if someone gives me advice that I don't want to take Why don't I want to take the advice and usually it's just it sounds hard It's usually just that it sounds harder and you have to let them know like even if this is difficult We'll get past it I am now Yeah, I am yeah The great thing about colors is that There Okay, I didn't hear that but you you chuckled so I imagine it was hilarious I The great thing about colors with with web design is you don't really have to use all of them and They're usually used as accents. So as design is developed. We've gotten into minimalist design But even if you're not going full minimalist all colors should be used to have a function so even if you've got What doesn't match like bright yellow and What doesn't get with bright yellow Orange like you've got bright yellow and orange Well, the logo can be bright yellow and then like any link on the footer or whatever can be orange And it's like as long as you're not clustering those colors together You can still give the client something they need and something that a Website visitor can look at whether or not they're colored blinds, you know, it's all about I think when we design sites We get into our heads. I like these colors. So I'm just gonna kind of throw them in But over time you're like, okay Well, the reason that the reason for any color on a website is either branding or function So or just make the logo a rainbow and make everything else black and white Yeah, well, that's get with your graphic designer and fix the fix the logo. Oh You should probably just ask him what colors he can see Okay, what was your solution Found one He knew the answer the whole time he's got me sitting here swim. Yeah, I Want to learn I'm ready to learn accessibility Yeah Yeah Yep Insecurity from their standpoint, so you have to be the one that's confident. Yep If there's something you don't know besides Google, what do you do? So it comes down to the thing the thing about being an expert people think it's that you know everything That's not true being an expert means that you know What you know and if you don't know you know how to find out So you aside there's nothing you can do aside from searching it if you don't know how to do something So either you're googling the answer or you're turning to a connection that you have So like if I'm really bad at se I would be like hey Amanda give me some tips so I can maybe fix this You know like I need to figure out better voicing like Jen help me out I got no idea what I'm doing over here But it's not so much you don't have to and that's another insecurity that developers have themselves like I have to know everything You don't you just have to know how to find out You know it's great. I absolutely recommend that I have the problem of Knowing people learning people who have skill sets, but I'm not asking them anything Learn from my mistakes talk to the people that you network with here because we all know something and then together We'll build a better wordpress community. Yay Exactly that's why we're here so that Jen can answer all the content questions and I can make jokes during a five-minute presentation Yep beta Couple of weeks honestly, it's mostly because I spent a lot of time watching Netflix and Then debating whether or not it was worth developing and then bothering Ray every other version like can you test this? Ray Mitchell's in the back It's just it's just a lot of typing. I don't really I'm not super great at giving out processes But it's kind of like I want to do this I know a little bit about how to do it. So how do I take that further? How do I remove things from the admin menu and like how do I remove the sub pages then so that they really can't get into it? You know and then I have to put things like oh do I really want them to not do this So I put it back in and then it's like okay Well, what do I need to get done and you can spend forever developing a plug-in and like not Putting it out there because you want it to be perfect, but I won't know how good or bad it is until someone else uses it So it does what I say it does So I'm going to give it out there and hope that it then does what other people hope that it does I did make a site specifically a subtle plug-in it's www.clientproofwp.com So the website was actually pretty quick because all I did was like buy the domain install it and Add beaver builder same thing. I tried really hard not to sit there and like Slave over the perfect landing page because I still don't really know how best to market it You know, it's like this is what I'm saying it does But I don't yet know how people are going to be using it So I don't yet know the exact message that I want and starting out We all want things to be picture perfect. You're like, you know Wordpress came out and it's powers 30% of the web already. No, it doesn't and you know It's even with Gutenberg's coming out. We're all freaking out because like what's the message now? Is it going to change you just kind of have to shove stuff out there and see what happens? I actually used freemius.com so I my main issue is automatic updates And it's I still have to learn get and I'm not Super familiar with the API so I looked for a service that would do that for me and thankfully I found one that takes while it takes out a heavy Commission You get nothing if you don't put it out there I get Yeah, a percentage is better than zero freemius, yep It's a mix honestly I wish that I could say that I copy pasted everything and then just changed the name and that they were All these tutorials that use honestly It's the biggest part of developing anything is knowing what question to put into Google Basically, so you know I might say like I started with How to client proof your WordPress site and I got a list of like 20 plugins that you could use and I was like, okay That's a lot So let's start with how to change the name of a menu item and that got me to code I didn't quite understand so then I flipped down like who wrote a tutorial on this So now follow the tutorial and start messing with that and from there it goes, okay I know how to do this how to build a user rule 50 more plugins I don't want that so maybe I'll download a plug-in and dig through the code until I find the exact one That's like this makes the new user rule Yeah, I wish that I had a comprehensive tutorial or that I like had a site that I visit all the time, but I It's a lot of searching. Yes Please do I'm trying to make a list I'm listening. I'm sorry I Yeah And in addition to finding tutorials a lot of people skip the idea But you can write a tutorial you don't have to know the exact part once you if you find a piece of code that works There's no reason you can't post it yourself You know, you can't you can go on your blog if you're developing something. It's relevant and be like, oh How to change the name there might be thousands of tutorials, but not that you've written So don't be afraid to like learn as you go and then share your knowledge That's how I built my first business using headway. It was just like, oh, I'm learning this thing Now I know how to do this. So I'm gonna post it to my blog So I don't forget the code and then maybe other people will learn it, too Okay, I I'm probably running out of writing room Was it WPB? Any other questions? That's about it. Ask me anything. I'll be I'll probably be at the happiness bar