 Hello, good morning, because it is morning for us, Frank. I don't actually know when this is going out, but it is morning for us, and I've got with me today Frank McKenna, who we've just been regaling for the last half an hour that we went to the same high school. He went to the sixth form college, wasn't it, that I would have gone to had I not got a job. But I also have to read this out because it's a bit full, right? He says, you are the founder, group chairman and chief executive of influential private sector group, lobbying a business group downtown in business, and I've been to some of your events and they're top, right? But fundamentally, historically, since you started working, you're a politician, aren't you? So tell me about this. Tell me how you got to where you are in the sense that, and I know you've been deputy leader of big councils and those sorts of things, but it's a politician, professional politician who has become an influential lobbyist and networking guy which tries to make the world a better place. Yeah, that's a good description, John. I'll take that. I mean, I don't think everyone has agreed necessarily that we're trying to make it a better place, but that's what certainly we believe we're trying to do. So I was a politician for 12 years, got elected on to Lancashire County Council in 1989. Leader of the council at that time was a woman called Louise Elman, who you may remember. It's Kalmersdale. So we should say we've both lived in Scam at some stage. Yeah, yeah, so I represented a Scam seat on the county and as I say, 12 years on the county council during that period eventually became deputy leader of the council. Also chair of the economic development company, Lancashire Enterprises, which was a hugely successful venture that the county council had introduced in the 80s, much to the angst of Margaret Thatcher, so it must have been a good thing. So I chaired that for a while, well for four years. I also became leader of something called the North West Regional Assembly, which was leaders from every council across the North West. Met all the chief executives of lots of those councils at that time as well, and was a parliamentary assistant for seven years, so did quite a bit in Parliament. That was really during the Blair years, so sort of 92 through to around 99. And to be honest, my interest in politics came from a dad, a dad was a bus driver, but he was also a shop steward. He was always very interested, he was obviously a labour man. Oh, you were a labourer? Yeah, some people wonder now. So I think that the interest had always been there from a very young age, and then when the opportunity came when I was 16 or 17 during the Labour Party, first job was a welfare rights adviser. So I moved to Leicester, did what Norman Tebb had told us all to do right by, and ironically I was advising people who were on the dole because there were a lot of them at the time. So that was in Leicester. When you have bars and people on benefits and what they can claim and so on and so forth, it's great at one level, but then you always know. It's like us, isn't it? The money I earn now, I don't feel any better off than I did 30 years ago because the money you get you spend. So if you're poor and you're living in poverty, that money you get may help you in the short term, but doesn't do you a lot for you in the longer term. That's true, very true. I started to think about what else could they do really to make a bigger difference, and there was something started to emerge called community work, community development. So I managed to get myself a job as a community development officer. Again, eventually I ended up in Skelmersdale doing that job as the head of community development for the town. I absolutely love that. But again, I found that every time you want to do something, you have to go and ask a politician. So I thought, fuck this, I'm going to be a politician. And that's basically how I ended up going into politics. And as I say, the rest is history so to speak. So from 2000 to 2001, a couple of things that happened really. Firstly, I got embroiled in an accusation that we'd overspent on an election campaign in 1997 in which I was the agent. So there was a police investigation going on. So that was a problem. And the other thing that had happened by that time was that the North West regional assembly we'd hoped was going to go on and become an assembly similar to Scotland and Wales. And so my sort of dream job would have been Prime Minister for the North England, the North West. Maybe that's why they didn't do it. Well, I think one of the reasons the police investigation happened was because they didn't want that to happen maybe. So at that point, I didn't want to be an MP. I'd seen the Westminster life. And listen, again people have particular views about MPs and the pay. I think an MP salary now is £83,000. Something like that plus all the expense opportunity is easier. I wouldn't do that for £203,000. It's a really tough job. And the impact it has on your family life, on watching football and all those other things. You've become owned by the public. You do. Well, especially these days. Especially social meetings are like now. Well, now it's bad, you know, back then. But anyway, for those reasons, I came out of politics. And after a couple of years of doing some consultancy work, I've done some consultancy work with Everton. Just to decide there that when you said you came out of politics, do you think that was like a fork in the road where you went this way and it was really being an MP, a minister and all those sorts of things that go with that. Or go this way, which is actually the way you went. Was it literally a life-defining decision? It was taken out of my hands in a sense because of that police investigation. Because ultimately, the Labour Party will support you up to a point. But that then becomes when you've got to sort that mess out. I mean, the mess got sorted out. Four-year investigation, I think it was, three million quid. Day one, a chest of Crown Court, the judge says this is nonsense and threw it out. But by that time, you know, the political ship had sailed. But in my head anyway, I was sort of thinking is, you know, where am I going to go with this? Because Leader of Lancashire County Council, which was the biggest local authority in the country at the time, that was being great. But actually, I'm glad what happened happened. I didn't think that at the time. But in hindsight, it was the best thing that happened because I went into business, which is something I've needed. That's this business? Or what became this business? Yeah, initially it was a consultancy business where I was advising a number of companies, mostly property developers, but did a bit of stuff with Everton. Took a delegation of Everton officials to China. Started relationships with the Chinese government over there through, well, as I say, a consultancy business. And then again, after a couple of years, found myself advising lots of different companies, arguing about the same things, but on different developments and different issues. And to make a difference, and that seems to be like what runs through my being really, I just want to make a difference. Sure. I said to the guys, I've described it as a trade union for property developers, and we set up downtown a business back in 2003. Yeah, so 20th anniversary approaching then? Yeah, and the way I set the business up is I organised an awards dinner called the Liverpool Awards back in 2003. The profit of that I used to set the business up. Sure. And it's the 20th anniversary of that awards dinner on Thursday this week. And it's, congratulations. But it's not just for property developers now, is it? No. It was initially. So it changed? It grew really. So again, back in 2003, property was king in the business world, and the next thing my phone was going with, calls from professional services firms, whether it be banks, solicitors, accounts, companies. Then somebody said to me, have you ever thought about doing networking events? What are they? So I went to a couple of them and thought, well, I can do better than this, because we were pretty dire back in the early 2000s, business networking events. And then we started to develop a communications platform. So we've got about 100,000 followers on social media now. So it's quite a big concern, and obviously we're right across the country now. There's some new offices opening as well, haven't you? We've got, yeah, well, we've opened, our latest one was Wolverhampton. Was that open that one? That's open and looking possibly a Coventry next. So we'll be in 10 locations then, across the country. Never thought that when you started, did you? No, well, somebody from the City Council, senior executives said in Liverpool, optimistic as ever, you know. You won't last five minutes. So 20 years later, we're still here. He isn't. And I think we've seen off five or six chief executives, four council leaders. I don't remember for me many, many years ago, I went for an interview with a company, which you've probably heard of called Anderson Consulting. Yes. Which is now called Accenture. And I turned them down, and actually they told me, I would live to regret it. And I might have a lot more money in the bank had I gone, but I didn't regret it. And you shouldn't regret anything really, if you're making decisions for the right thing. So, I mean, a summation of all that would be, you got into politics, you try to make a difference. That's what you want to do. And over time, you've got to meet and associate with a lot of people, which almost suggests it was natural to drop into being someone who tries to facilitate that, which I guess is what you do now, isn't it? You're trying to facilitate people with similar challenges, similar opportunities maybe, to cooperate, I suppose. Yeah, we try and make sure that people who make decisions engage with the people who those decisions impact. Absolutely. And so, you know, at the moment, that means that we try and get into a lot of shadow ministers because I think they're in the next election. Absolutely. And so, you've got to try and start to get them to understand what the challenges of business are. And, you know, I think, unfortunately, over the past few years, alongside politics, you know, the business world has been given a bad name because everybody sees all those bad news stories about the way shitty run businesses treat the staff or treat the customers. But, you know, we've got 900 member companies. That's a lot of them. And we don't have any of those sort of issues from the companies that we work with because 95% of businesses are run well and face exactly the same problems, anxieties, challenges as we as individuals face. And so, it's also trying to get politicians to understand. I'd say this years ago, I'd probably say, Labour politicians to understand. But actually, the Tory Party, you know, better now. Arguably, the Tory Party, this Tory government, have been worse for business than any government in the past, Labour or Tory. So, that's before they got totally dysfunctional in the last years? Oh, absolutely. You know, beforehand, it meant, well, Boris Johnson famously said, didn't he, during the Brexit campaign, fuck business? When would you ever get a lead in Conservative saying that? So, I think there's a big job for us to do in terms of ensuring that people understand, appreciate challenges business face. And this isn't getting the violin out. This isn't saying, you know, all businesses need to be treated as, you know, some sort of special case and every policy decision that's made needs to be business led. But nonetheless, if you continue to go down the route we're going down, which is basically, you know, some businesses were saying to me, particularly in the hospitality sector, for every pound they earn now, 81 pence goes back to the treasure in some way, shape or form. Well, are you really going to see many hospitality venues continue if that's the reward that they get? I mean, I am a member of one, right? Rather a club, the Athenaeum in Liverpool, which has dining and does hospitality himself. What a fantastic history that plays. You know, 1797 and, you know, one of our achievements in some respects was to come out the other side of Brexit and we're still here. Yes. You know, and that's with all the government's help and so on. And as we speak right now with all the who are that's going on, you know, producers tripling and quadrupling in price. And if you just pass on those price rises to your members or to your customers, depending on whatever your business is, you may lose them all together. So business owners and business managers and at horrible time because they face with that dilemma all the time. How much of this do I pass on? Now, if you work for a multinational oil company, you say all of it. Yeah. Exactly. If you work for anything that's got any association with an intimacy with the consumer, it's really hard and difficult. And having people who you can share your problems with, which is ultimately what you try to do and you do stuff around best practice and all those sorts of things, is a great asset, but you've got to make friends and you've got to make enemies as well. Hence the joke at the beginning, I guess, about what people do and don't think about what you would say as a person or indeed, you know, your business. You can't keep all the people happy all of the time. But a heritage 20 years long suggests you've been doing something right. You'd hope so. I think the other thing is, John, though, that when you've been in politics as long as I have, then you start to become a bit more objective in terms of your views. That's called getting older as well. Maybe, but I think it's also... I've always been pragmatic, even when I was a young politician and seen that the value of getting something done rather than nothing. And it's a bit like, again, business owners who say, I'll never give any percentage of my business away, and you say to them, so you'd rather have 100% or nothing than 50% of a million pound and all of a sudden the penny drops. Well, again, I say this now to Labour supporters, particularly for those who've got an association with Jeremy Corbyn. Keir Starmer might not be going to produce the 100% socialist manifesto that you guys want, but is that going to be better than what you've got at the moment? Similarly, if you think that everything that the Conservative Government or a Conservative Government have entered during any time period has ever done is wrong, then you're going to have to have a way with yourself. Because, you know, no-one has a monopoly on good ideas. And so sometimes you've got to take a step back and say, well, okay, I don't particularly like the kids like football fans, right? We watch, do I mention the L word? And, you know... I prefer the red shirt. There was a particular time, you know, when Bob had them absolutely motoring, when it was difficult to argue that they were playing fantastic football. Well, similarly, sometimes, political parties that you don't necessarily... you're not a member of or you don't necessarily vote for, but they do have some kind of... See, if it's binary all the time, and I know with armbands and all that sort of stuff, binary, non-binary, all those sorts of things, I've got other connotations these days. But if you make everything binary, you can't learn from the successes of your opposition and their failures. So learn from their successes, exploit their failures. But every one who's ever been close, like you have been, to government, particularly central government, and I'm thinking that people, if Tony will be watching this, so we'll know who I'm talking about, who an advisor at number 10 and so on, they always say things similar to you, which is progress. It's all about going in the right direction, you know? And I'll be honest, you know, because I ended up as a heavyweight sales guy, you either won or you lost, you know? And if I won, I was happy, if I lost, I'd be able to sort of head, so I'm not getting a new watch, you know, happy sort of thing. And therefore it was quite binary, but you do learn and mature over time that any progress is better than no progress. Now that's not, in the footballing sense, to accept being in the Premier League is way below our heritage, but it is pragmatic. And so pragmatism is actually, you know, it's quite a rare commodity, to be honest. It's always a product of experience. It is, but I think it's more difficult now as well because of things like social media, you know, that the most issues are grey. Oh, yes. And yet, you know, if you go on Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever, social media platform, you want to mention. If you go on with a view that is a little bit vanilla, you're not getting much attention there, are you? That's right. So people tend to go black or white. They characterise stuff. Most issues can be solved through grey. Of course. It's not exciting. That's just reality. Absolutely. It is interesting. For me, it's interesting anyway because you're talking here about you. You are where you are doing what you do and there's all that history behind you. But with a bit of leniency around accuracy of timing, you could bookend it with, on this side, that's the right, isn't it? Let's call it the left. On the left, we have the Everton Stadium at Bramleymore. And on the right, we have the Was To Be Stadium on the Albert Dock. So you are active around the time of the Albert Dock. What could we have learnt from what happened then? That would have helped the people who were trying to do the Everton Stadium. Well, the Albert Dock project was interesting because we'd only just started to emerge as an organisation. It was a fantastic chief executive of Liverpool vision that's how I'm called Jim Gill. I know that name. And I went to see Jim. Credit to Jim because although it was a sort of private sector leg group, he still had a big accountability to the city council and the city council sort of put the shutters up against us. It didn't want us to settle. As I say, the last five minutes was the thing that was coming up. I've seen them off. But Jim told me very early on in our sort of establishment that the King's Dock project was never going to happen. Really? He told me that privately listening. It's 20 years ago now. I'm sure he won't mind me repeating the story now. So although it was a fantastic idea, there was never any opportunity really for that to be built because it was just too old, both in terms of finance, in terms of the infrastructure that was required on that particular site because we're talking about Bramley Morddop being a challenging site. Well, think about where the King's Dock's stadium was. Think about the challenges now with a much, much smaller arena. So would you have put a football stadium there and got away with it? You'd like to think so, wouldn't you, because it would have been great for us. But it just was never, in his opinion, it was never practical. And the people who were around at the time, there was somebody involved. You will remember the name of the guy at the job. He was into entertainment. For Greg? Yes. And again, the view of some was that the poor Greg didn't have a fucking clue about how to build football, Steve. He probably didn't. And therefore, it wasn't really going to be a goer. So I never sadly never got over excited about that particular project. And then I think the next one was a Kirby one. Yeah, Destination Kirby. So Destination Kirby. I hope you're against that one. Well, it wasn't actually. All right. And I think, you know, wrongly. I mean, in hindsight I was wrong and a lot of Evertonians were right. But again, I think it got to the point where you were seeing lots of football stadiums going on. Sure. New stadiums. And I was just panicking that we were going to get left behind. And to an extent, we have been. We have? I mean that, you know, the fact is that, okay, this might have been the best thing that's happened to us because we're the last to build and it's going to be the best stadium on the planet. But at that time, we were just seeing ourselves going backward. That's true. And other stadiums getting built. And so I thought that development was, it wouldn't have been the ideal solution, and so I supported the club to an extent. But then, of course, somewhat ironically, it was the MP for West Lancashire, Rose Cooper, intervened. And that was the final nail in the confident development because she was saying it was going to impact massively on the economy of West Lancashire scale as they are. Because the anchor tenant for that would have been a massive test. That's right, yeah. Absolutely. So that didn't happen. And I thought, again... So that was the main thing that stopped it happening, really, wasn't it? It was. The negative impact on local economy. It might have been going to Peccurby, for example, but not for the rest of the region. And so for us, you know, as I say, blessing in disguise, from my perspective, and I would say a lot of avaturians were against that, and they were proved right. The next one was Walton Hall Park. That's right, yeah. And Walton Hall Park, again, I don't think was ever practical, realistic, would not have... We come on the same page, then, because I had that conversation with the chief executive at the time and said, you're living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. And it was Robert. Yeah, Robert Elston. Who, you know, he and I got on really well. I did privately, publicly used to slide me off, but privately, we got off. I got on okay publicly on privately with Robert. Yo, you're a bit of a smoocher, aren't you? Yeah, maybe. But I didn't think that was ever real. It wasn't real, was it? It wasn't real. But the incredible thing that I discovered during that particular time was the limited value of Goddison. And so, again, I remember... As a piece of real estate, yeah. Yeah, you know, I remember having the conversation, because again, everyone goes, oh, well, you can sell that for house and that's worth it. Remember the mayor of Liverpool, you know, saying very much that it's not worth anything. It's not worth anything. From a development point of view. Yeah, and you can't put retail on it because of the local plan. And I think, again, I don't want to quote Robert in case I'm wrong here, but somebody within the executive team has told me that Goddison Park was worth more scrap than actually just selling the land off. Oh, selling some of the metalworks and stuff? Yes. Wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. It wouldn't surprise me at all. The fact they didn't own the goddamn thing probably meant they couldn't sell it anyway. But with all the mortgage that they put on it. But now you're right, and they're sort of, if you like, the hidden challenges that the average fan on the lower Gladys or wherever in the stadium doesn't really get to see. You know, about how hard and difficult these things are. You know, and you talk about, say, the King's Darken, privately the council is saying to you, I don't think this is going to happen. You know, and of course, Ken Wright and his cohorts will take the blame for not producing the money to get preferred status. Without putting words in your mouth, it's almost like even if they come up with the money, the expectation will be that it might fail further down the line. Which is why this crew should be lauded that the thing is coming out the ground. But none would stand in that. Years later, the council want to get in bed and help the commonwealth games and things like that. So what was your thought around the thought that some of the funding of the stadium could have come from the local authority or say rather than specifically the council? At the time, did you think that was a good idea? That it would work or whatever? Yeah, it would work. And again, you know, there's controversies around the city council and Joe Anderson's tenure at the city council. But local authorities right across the country now have been almost forced in some respects to look at ways of investing to earn back. Central Government policy forcing that. And it's not unusual. It's not a Liverpool thing. It's not like, well Joe Anderson wanted to invest a million quid and everything. And his idea was to get two million back. And just in simple terms. There was a return on it? There was a return on investment. The fact that Joe was an Evertonian, obviously people sort of raised eyebrows. He probably still is. But Steve locked the deal. At one point the combined authority would have put money into it. There was nothing to do with the football. It was a sensible business decision. Now for whatever reason, that's not happening now. And I think it's inevitably got tied up with the controversies of the city council and so on. But it would have been a great deal for the city council. And therefore the citizens? For the citizens of Liverpool. Because we'd have all got money back on the bank. Services may have been a bit better as a consequence. Yeah, because that's what councils need to do now. They need to invest in... And infrastructure stuff is the best thing to invest in. The other problem though, John, at the moment you see, we're saying to local authorities, well we're going to cut your budgets further. So you're then saying to chief executives, to city mers, to city leaders, we'll find new ways of creating money in order for you to... Or cut services. Or cut services. No council leader of any colour wants to cut services. Absolutely right. So they're back into a corner? Yeah. So then they start saying, okay well what can we invest in? There is no investment on the planet that's 100% guaranteed. That's right. So on some of them you lose. And the problem if you're in politics and local government is that if you back a winner, everybody just says over... That's what you're there for. Yeah, that's your job. That's your job. You back a loser. And you end up... History. In situations where people say, well you know, well if we want risk takers in local government, that's fine, but then you've got to take the rough with the smear. If you want local government to be funded through taxes, then you have to save the ballot box during a national election. Absolutely. And you're quite right when you say, because you're right, you know the subject, of course you're right. But you're quite right because anyone who drives down to 62 towards Liverpool and looks about what's going on from a logistics point of view on either side can see how Warrington, for example, have deployed access to central funds, which they can get a return on and so on. And the stadium was a version of that, I guess, a more high profile one, but a version of that. So that went behind us and there was a long, relatively long, tortuous planning application, which I think the pace of which was probably driven by the football club rather than anybody else. And my own view is it could have happened a lot sooner. But that's then granted and we start building the thing. And here we are perhaps 50% the way through the build. And we've got journalists at the Guardian or whatever casting doubts upon whether it'll ever get built. We've thought we'd already got past the RS saying it was a fantasy stadium and so on. And we see the media coverage of that and we get the sporting, I might perhaps go and get on to sports maybe, but we see the sporting treatment that Evan take from the media and we see the business treatment Evan take from the media because you're a business-y guy sort of thing. What's your thought about, say that article last week that was in the Guardian. What was your thought about that in association with the funding of the stadium? I just thought it was a fluff piece. I was saying before we came on out any of us could look at any business at this moment in time particularly in the construction sector and write a similar piece because there are challenges around getting materials about costs about money not being as cheap at this moment in time. But wherever you think of Mishiri he's a rich guy. So, ultimately that asset that he's got which is Evan Football Club needs the new stadium. So it's going to be funded. But I can write an article like that about any of the Premier League clubs and say they're going to go books because there are certain scenarios which you can fantasise about happening which you'll see any of them go books. Well, that's the point isn't it? We've talked a couple of times already about social media and this new academic that was invented not so long ago of ITK and all these people behind keyboards who are in the know. And to me you're a living, breathing, walking, talking sort of in the know guy and I would suspect your job and just in fact I'll make this a binary question so yes or no. In your job and what you do you speak to lots of people and you learn stuff and some of that stuff you can't repeat. Oh absolutely of course. Because that's the confidence and the confidentiality. You can't go on to programmes like this or radio shows or into the press and say well that's a load of bollocks. If there is some truth in it. Thank you so much. I threw the ball up in the air and he smacks it out of the park. So you've got to, you know because your credibility is on the line so this isn't me with you know blue-tinted spectacles on it. You've been very objective. Of course it's going to happen. It will happen. And again you know just going back a step in terms of where the football club were in the planning process the biggest obstacle to the planning process I will remind you wasn't Liverpool City Council wasn't ever the football club it was UNESCO. Absolutely. And you know for 20 years I've been arguing that world heritage status was a bad thing for the city. That's on my mental list so let's cover that now. People were saying to me well you're saying that because you don't believe. I was saying to I was arguing against this before evidently the water goes through the water problem. Badge. That vanity badge. The plaque of whatever you want to call it. Poster City literally billions of pounds. That's unbelievable isn't it. And you've got to ask yourself John you know we all say oh isn't Manchester fantastic a business? Have Manchester got world heritage status? No. Why? Because they didn't want it because they recognised the drag, the bureaucracy, the red tape, the limitations that will put on your regeneration ambition. I totally agree and I wasn't dissing the executive editor who took longer because it actually plays into what you said before. Had we as a football club perhaps taken a more aggressive route we may have got planning maybe a year soon as some people would say but we may not have got it as a consequence and therefore progress is what it was. Getting the planning approval was the objective. I gained it ever not the same naivety as Joe Anderson and the City Council at the time which was that UNESCO would see common sense. So you've got this derelict piece of land which common sense says you've got the opportunity of a world class stadium which will then act as a catalyst to regenerate a whole suede of North Liverpool. So okay we know by the letter of the law this world heritage status that you've given us that's sort of against what we've signed up to but come on guys look at the opportunity my view UNESCO are never going to go for that Everton's hope and the City Council's hope was that they would as a statement you could say I call it naivety they would say we would just do it all better. Yes and I think I would agree with naivety because having worked in the sales environment where it's win-lose and lose cost you your job then you have to not just hear what people say you have to understand what they're going to do and I think one of the things about world heritage in historic England who were representing them in this country was they would happily go to Finch Farm or the Royal Abbey Building or whatever they met with the club whether it was formal or informal and so on and tell you what they really thought which was let's say at the common sense end but publicly they're never going to say anything other than that against it you're already under notice Liverpool because you've walked over as before this is a high profile thing where we're going to get lots and lots of coverage so damn right we're going to double down on this but until this moment as of any of our viewers worried about the loss of real heritage since it was taken away well nobody is nobody's bothered and that was the thing the most people the people who were bothered about that largely didn't live in the city always and I think you know for me when I was talking earlier about black, white and grey with UNESCO there's no grey that's right so that's why places like Glasgow cities like Manchester have said we don't want anything to do with it and now cities like Liverpool and Liverpool won't hopefully ever made that mistake again but you had and again I fell out with people who have got a lot of time for who would be moaning the fact that we'd lost world heritage status not the fact that we were going ahead with the staving development but still saying but isn't it a shame no it's not a shame because it now enables us to free up the rest of the city for further developments in regeneration so there's the nub right when the planning application was granted I think the Football Club did a lot of good work around prepositioning stakeholders to the point where I was I used to do the business matters podcast and I don't think myself or Roger or Paul never even anticipated because of the way we were doing it that application would not be successful because we just seem to cover all the bases so it was good when it was formalised but we all expected it and they did a lot of good work around societal value and clearly the regeneration potential and all those sorts of things so in there no sort of guy how do you think that's going to play out well I think that if the city council can come through the difficulties that it's currently facing and it gets an executive team and a leadership in place that can start to develop a true vision for that part of North Liverpool the stadium becomes a catalyst for so many fantastic and positive things and we're doing an event on the 1st of December with Langgo Roach you're welcome I will and Peel are going to be in the room as well because obviously Liverpool Waters is the strategic scheme for which the Everton football club stadium is the anchor I suppose so that area is going to be totally transformed over the next 10, 15, 20 years for me and this is a personal view I will take that particular part of Liverpool out of city council control I'll make it a UDC similar to what Hesseltide did with the dox all those years ago and I'd have obviously elected officials on the board but I'd get some really clever private sector people in there I'd start to try and attract international investments onto those sites I'd also try to encourage some of the more indigenous investment into North Liverpool as well and just accelerate the process in terms of planning that's good because again you've answered a question before I've asked it really because of course subjectively it was that the anchor and right at one end of Liverpool Waters and obviously the cities at the other end was this would accelerate something that was thought would take 30 years or something is there any evidence that it is picking up the pace and clearly the local authority needs to get their act together and you're offering a view about how they could help that but people see opportunities particularly people who like making money and is it starting to nature up is land changing hands are people putting in planning applications or because they know that stadium will get finished and will come to the funding of it in a minute so what should gut feel really I think people want to invest in Liverpool but the reluctance at the moment is the fact that we've got a two and a half year lag in the planning application and that goes from everything to your auntie's lean to through to the big strategic side and there's not been a sort of out of what we have to prioritise and those people that ought to be fast tracked and then you've got the mess of planning applications that have been granted under the previous regime and was that all done correctly and by the board so that's what I'm saying if you've got a strategic side such as the one that we've got a bramley more dark and Liverpool waters take that out of that mess so that you can just crack on because otherwise you just get thrown in with all of that and with the best one in the world and I don't care if Howard Bernstein could be persuaded to come in and under council and I know he couldn't be persuaded but even if Bernstein came into that he'd struggle to sort that mess out so take it out of the mess and say ok we've got a fantastic opportunity here it's the best stadium on the planet now people might again say well that's just an episode that is not an episode 20 odd years and all that background but it's just an episode in here me having done the virtual tour now of the stadium it is going to be I went to Tottenham a few weeks ago I think you're in the Alec young suite aren't you so have you had what the hospitality members have had which is showing that right so you've done that because we're hoping to to get round that soon it is just incredible there's nine restaurants in the place the facilities are absolutely incredible the stadium itself I mean again I'd say to Evertonians we're all worried about this aren't we in terms of taking us out of gooderson park is the atmosphere going to be the same I think it will I think they've been really mindful of making sure that they transfer the atmosphere as well as the club into that new stadium but it's a world-class facility and so when you've got world-class facilities and we've got one in the knowledge course called The Spy it's a world-class facility you've got to take those assets and you've got to absolutely bleed them and you've got to be showing them across the world look at what you can be part of and I'm afraid that if you take that into the city council bureaucracy at the moment it's going to be too long too laborious and those investors get fed up with more they can take the money anywhere John so the royal we which is all us a lot on the outside which might include you I don't know what can we do because you're pacing a bit of a dark picture here that if the local authority whether it's people who've been imposed on them or not you know but if they're just introspective at the moment because they're getting their ass kicked and everything has to be checked and so on and so forth who or what lifts above that and listens to people like you so well see this bit here which is critical to the economic success of the whole region let's take that bit out give that the microscopic look that we need but we'll do it quite quickly and then let them get on with it as long as it takes who has the authority to do that and make it happen well that's just about persuasion of the central government isn't it it is ultimately and again what you will get push back on and I understand and appreciate this because I was a local councillor is well it's undemocratic you take in the opportunity of councillors being the ultimate people who say whether that can and can't happen again what I'd say is there ought to be scrutiny of those projects there needs to be obviously a process in place to ensure that investors who come in are genuine can deliver what they say they're going to develop but if you end up in a situation as we do often in this city where the term NINBI comes to mind but where you've got councillors who block and prevaricate because they're worried about a particular section of their party or a particular section of their voter base or the heritage lobby you don't get a dishwasher so take that process and it actually helps the councillor because they can still represent the local residents they can object to the scheme but ultimately they can have final say or whatever if it's good for them they can't have final say that's their hope that's why I said it the final say needs to be with that project board and as I say how the board should be created they could have a say so many places or that sort of stuff but in the end if we want to drive the economy you've got to have some degree of autonomy hasn't it and if we want to drive the economy forward then we've got to make sure that we get that stadium to, as I said earlier be a catalyst for transformation the only way you do that is getting investors on board because look that stadium is going to get built do we want that stadium that iconic stadium to be built and if you want to go well you've got the Titanic you've got Bramleymore what else is going on so we can't have that either so we've got to crack on but you think of the economic impact the jobs it's going to create the fantastic businesses that are going to be there the working environments the living environments that you can create in North Liverpool a place, I'm from Brifol so North Liverpool has never had the sort of investment in regeneration then it needs and so if we can start to fast track those improvements why wouldn't you do preaching to the converted I think we have a guy who watches the channel called Kevin and I hope Kevin you believe Frank when he says the stadium will get built mindful of your time that might be a good time to stop I think for the audience Frank's easy to find there's websites out there downtownandbusiness.com we'll put some of this stuff in the description if you give us the details for the event you've got we'll put that in the description for the video as well and I just hit you with it the one thing I didn't tell you were going to talk about I'll ask you that now will you come in again? absolutely and if I can indulge for a moment and talk about getting the ball out for a second because obviously I love what the guys here ped in the team do but you know I think that if you go to the comment you made earlier in terms of a bit of a media campaign against Davidson I did say I was going to talk about that what do you think is going on there? we talk about the finance and the business but what amazes me is how much people have been after our manager almost since he signed his contract because for me Frank Lampard would have been somebody you'd see as a bit of a media darling the opposite favourite to get the sack in the summer as soon as he got beaten again last season he was like are we going to sack him you remember when we got beaten against Burnley people were linking us with Disha I think when he got the sack I mean it was just bizarre we do the Bournemouth thing and all of a sudden the board of meetings and decide whether to sack him or not and the only thing is that listen I like Frank Lampard only briefly and not since he became manager I met him bizarrely when he was playing for Manchester City and he was bored out of his school at the Lauri Hotel but that's another story but what I'd say to Evertonian is that the definition of madness is if you keep doing the same things and expecting different results you're nuts if we keep sacking managers we are never going to get out of the melee that we've been suffering and frustrated with for the last few seasons he's had one transfer window he's not been able to get a strike in DCL's been injured unfortunate but give the guy a chance because I tell you if we sack Lampard get another one in we're just on this do you think he should be getting more out of the plays he's got? no because I think he's got a poor squad I think he inherited a bag of shite and I think for people to think that you can turn that round within a few months and one transfer window is for the birds I think he's got players that he's brought into the team like Anana who will take time but will be good players but I remember when we bought for Lane and the first few months people said what have we bought in for him? lots of foreign players have a difficult first year and he was in a better team you bought this young lad in to a new environment to a new country, a new league doesn't really understand and get the style of play and we're expecting to hear well beaten after 14 games you've got to give them time to settle you've got to allow Lampard the one disappointing sign of me that Frank's made was probably Mathneer I've been a bit disappointed Ped's not here so Ped will be applauding now I'm not convinced by him but all of the others I think I think Mokay was somebody that last minute he said we've got to get somebody who can play in that full position I don't think he'd have been his first choice I don't think he'd have been his fifth choice I think there was a list of players that shows the process though if that is a better than nothing situation we're still in that place aren't we because under 23 is a better than nothing well I think that's the other thing that you'd like to see over the next and perhaps again if you were to criticise Frank Lompo you might say at Chelsea he draws a lot of young lads too he's not done that at heaven but then you've got to say listen sometimes you've just got to throw them in but you know my plea to Evertonians is somebody who's as frustrated as you are honestly first season I went to the heaven it was 69-70 ball candle half I went through the 84-85 through to the 87-88-89 season so I've seen the great times I was there at Wembley when we beat United in the Cup 94-95 95 and you know ultimately I want to see Everton be successful but I can't see how sacking manager after manager get you anywhere other than the place we're in so stick with Frank and I think we'll be celebrating a good solid full scene play finished by the end of the season and that should be seen as progress I'll stay here forever don't you so I tried to close and he wants to go on a bit longer this is fine so I think we will leave it there when we come in next time or you come in next time perhaps we'll see how the media agenda is going and spend some time on that maybe because that's ever new stuff for that and in your words Frank who should be a darling is suffering from being associated with this football club so let's turn that round I think your half full approach to life is really cool because it's what I do and as I said if you want to find out more about Frank and his business because it can help you a lot all those descriptions will be in the description and thank you for watching