 Hello hello, so well that was fantastic. Thank you so much to our wonderful speakers, and we've heard About Morocco we've heard about Hungary Japan In the US and we can open up the floor to a little bit of discussion. I'm gonna use my Privilege's chair to ask a question before anyone else gets the chance Because we're running to time and we have plenty of time to ask questions a Lot of the issues that we seem to have been discussing seems to come down to Misconceptions crew generalizations stereotypes that pertain to communities of people who use drugs Especially in the context of Japan, you know, we heard these notions that are very much built on these sort of We're very sort of outmoded and outdated Understandings very stigmatizing and in Hungary. Also, there's this this populism That very much plays on these stereotypes in order to scapegoat a community whilst in the US We've got this conservatism that and in spite of this You've been describing instances very very positive instances and being able to to change things and change the discourse and Chain challenge the dominant discourse really through through these pragmatic narratives so I really want to Maybe Peter and Emma can talk a little bit about Maybe how we can amplify the voices of these communities to a greater extent how we can Bring the voices of these communities and the lived realities of of our communities To bear upon the people who make these decisions and make the policies okay, well the thing that's come into mind for me is a Lot of the work that we've done from a capacity building point of view in some of these new areas is helping people to identify the the champions within their communities that people will look to and and like if oh if that if that you know Chief of the police department or that doctor or that particular community member or that church leader Is willing to engage with harm reduction that then other people see them as leaders in their community So they then become kind of willing to kind of that community get that community backing and buying So I think that some some of the work that we've Supported people to do and and to help them think outside the box a little about who those people might be in their communities You know, I remember in West Virginia. There's um, there's a story There's a woman who works in a particular community She's she's an elder of the community and she gives out food and stuff and she's And people know her very well in the community and they they identified that she could potentially be a champion for harm reduction Because they thought she would be you know amenable to the message And so that's one one way. I don't know if that helps to answer the question Yeah, so helping people to really think through who those champions could be You know in in my region in the central part of Europe is that the Organizing of drug user communities is very undeveloped or it's not advanced at all Unlike in for example in Eastern Europe where the there's global funds that those countries are eligible for global fund and global fund is You know targeting and addressing Community organizing and in Western Europe. There is a quite advanced drug user movement But in in in central in the central part of Europe You don't find any organizations of people use drugs or very very few community activists so that's that's that's missing and Of course, my organization is not service provider and we are not a community based organization We are an advocacy organization but with our tools we try to amplify their voices and As as you know, we make videos and we train also activists to to to make their own videos and For example, our latest feature long documentary the day in the life was filmed in seven cities of the world and we featured one day of a drug user in each of these cities and and One of the scenes was Budapest and we featured a couple two people use drugs and They are injecting new psychotic substances. So through this video making we can we could show that The the problems of these people and we could give them a voice which they don't have and in also in Hungary There is a racial dimension of drug use like most of the injecting drug users belong to the Roma minority It's a bit similar to to the US situation so that these communities live in poverty and So it's it's it's not only you know the problem of amplifying the voice of drug user communities But these communities in general like they are, you know Like they really don't have a voice in any kind of public discourses They don't have access to very very basic house care So it's I think it's it's not only the question of Of the drug user communities, but it's it's a must much more You should you should start it in a much more basic level, you know Thank you very much Do we have any questions from our audience? We've got some time. Yes, right at the back How do we do this with a microphone? There are some in the aisles I think or So if you could just come down to the to the microphone to ask your question There's one to the left and one to the right Thank you It's on Thanks very much I am from South Africa I work for for an organization called life line My just before I get to the question perhaps there's a weight of advice for Cheperson Please avoid doing that in the future when you chairing meetings, you're not supposed to be the first ones asking questions Because you know what it does with the type of questions that we're asking loaded as it sounded it actually says To the audience. I mean you take you even taking some of the questions that we I was hoping to be asking So what it does is is actually It actually renders me very passive in a meeting and you'll not be surprised in your meetings in the future If you continue this way you start seeing people working out of your meetings rather wait for everybody to start asking questions Right at the end if you still have questions summarize ask questions right at the end But ultimately, you know, so that at least you have participation from everybody Many thanks for your feedback They hungary When you spoke about Government that's anti harm reduction I Just wanted wanted to check here. What is what is the the the attitude of the What is the attitude of the of the of the of the opposition to government have you got opposition parties to the current governing party? Perhaps is it not a fight which you should be actually trying and approaching the involvement of political parties because if you kept on talking about the This current government being populist and we all know government thrive on populism and if you've got Opposition parties opposing the current government They would want to leverage on on on that type of a proposition And perhaps they would also want to use it for their own political advantage selfish political advantage But at the same time there's a greater benefit for you in that regard because you soliciting support whilst they're going to be using it for their Political narrow political gains, but at the same time you'll be achieving what you're hoping to achieve So I'm saying what what what what could be the possibility? I don't know the political system They don't know the government system there, but I'm just thinking I mean from where I come from Africa South Africa in particular So we've got political parties and all of that So I would know that once you approach it in that way It's going to make it much easier for you to ultimately have a much more bigger voice because Government Government government governments they have power because they have access to resources So they'll always silence your voice. You just have to find other ways of doing it Yeah, but but I just want to get what is the attitude in that regard, but secondly the the the report of of the ombudsman You mentioned it now and you said right at the end you said to the ombudsman supports your demands What was the report? I did not get a sense of the contents of the report What were the findings of the ombudsman in support of of your argument in that case because once they Once you are saying right at the end of the presentation you said they support your demands But I did not get a sense of what was the report and the outcome of that type of a of a process if I can get that but The the the people you you went around and there was a petition and people had to sign the petition to ratify the petition I mean it says that in the numbers you mentioned 1700 What is the creator? Affected population. I'm not talking in the ones that are they use as themselves perhaps in a community where you were You know taking this petition around I mean what number we talking of you talking of for an example 20,000 people, but you only ultimately were able to secure 1007 and I'm just making an example. I just want to get a sense, but also the the the issue of Right now when you responded to what he was asking You said there's there seems to be a lack of you know awareness because the the affected population Does not necessarily understand the issues similarly in your instance in comparison to you know other Parts in Europe, but I'm saying you know in your campaigns when when when you campaign perhaps the Are you not looking at basically, you know instead of Trying to have people supporting you ultimately. What are you doing to to capacitate them? What are you doing to create a creator awareness just before you can even try and look for support from them? What are you doing to? to you know to to instill that sense of self in them so that ultimately they're able to To come to the party when it comes to your campaigns to understand You know what what what are the mechanisms that you've employed in place to make sure that the very people that you Attract in your campaigns are Capacitated to a point where they have a full understanding of all of these issues so that ultimately they are able to be in in support of all of these Campaigns you don't start by just mobilizing them when you want to campaign But you start right at the beginning where there's enough, you know awareness and everything I just want to get a sense of that if you are backing on that Should I go to the next speaker I have if we could just yeah If we give Peter a chance to answer some of those multitudinous questions, and then maybe we can move on to somebody else. Yes Go ahead Peter so what was the first question the first question was About Political parties. Yeah, so yeah, I mean I don't want to discuss the Hungarian political situation Long but we have a very weak and fragmented opposition in Hungary Actually, we did make some You know dialogues or partnerships with some of the local politicians because this is you know local policy making So there is like a local council this which was discussing our our we submitted a Recommendation to the local council and the local council discuss that and it was supported by all actually all the opposition parties So we did I think we did a good job in that sense that we convinced all the opposition parties liberal socialist and and the greens But unfortunately, you know the government party has the majority so they voted down our our proposal That I think there is also danger though that you know when when your issue is too much politicized It you know it becomes a very much party political question. So It's it's like a very delicate issue when you when you try to approach the politicians Then I think the second question was about the ombudsman's report So we submitted a complaint to the ombudsman of the civil liberties So we complained about shutting down the needle exchange programs in these two districts of Budapest and we claimed that Shutting down needle exchange programs is a violation of the right to health And it's a violation to the right so to house the environment of people and the ombudsman agreed and he made an investigation So he you know interviewed all the Affected parties and he made an investigation in the local scene and then he made a statement Unfortunately the ombudsman's Positions are not legally binding. So it's more like, you know a kind of guiding document and he Recommended local policymakers to reopen the needle exchange programs But the mayor rejected the the ombudsman report and actually he accused us my my organization to Manipulating the ombudsman. So it was a very dirt dirty debate after that and Yeah, with the local Communities how how we make them interested or committed Yeah, which we what we do it is we try to build up, you know Some coalitions with some local groups like who has their own cases for example, you know home Some some advocacy organizations fighting homeless less or helping homeless less Some groups who are helping, you know the Roma people or this other, you know vulnerable communities and we tried you know to to train them and educate them about about this problem and we try to create called local coalitions and And and then this this is how we try to reach out people and I think We reached out a very significant part of this local population I think we are talking about a few like maybe 30-40,000 people who live in this area. So That So we collected like thousands of signatures the number you saw it was only the offline signature so we also have collected of online signatures and These signatures were you know like supporting our proposal which we submitted to the local council So that was the significance of the of collecting signatures that it is backed by local citizens So, yeah, I hope I could answer your questions Thank you Yes, go ahead. Hi, so my name is Alex MacMaddew And my question is for Emma Roberts. So your work in the rural US sounds really incredible I would love to rack your brain some time, but my primary question is if you have thoughts on how to expand access to OST in rural communities You know, that's one of the things we hear time and time again, right that There's this push, you know For people to be in treatment, but then there isn't the treatment available So, yeah, I mean again, it's something that you know And just as Peter was talking about local coalitions part of the capacity building work and helping people to come together to advocate and build and develop programming has been to Help them advocate not just for harm reduction, but that well the holistic part of harm reduction The syringe is the engaging people but it's everything else that we do around that for people and provide them with all these other services including OST the other thing that we've seen that's been super helpful most recently in the US is in the abstinence of some Of say methadone treatment facilities. We now have medical providers that can provide suboxone So that's been really helpful. So for example in Austin, Indiana Where there is a big shortage of treatment available Will cook the doctor there the local community doctor that is seeing the majority of the patients with HIV has actually got himself Registered to provide suboxone as well and also luckily the government Prior to the new administration past rulings that Doctors can have more patient capacity because originally it was 30 in your first year and something like a hundred in your second And then also they've changed the rules so that nurse practitioners and physician assistants can also provide suboxone So that's increasing the capacity to provide some treatment services, but it's definitely something, you know in rural areas that people really struggle with You know there may be a treatment facility, but geographically because people are so spread out They can't get there or there just isn't that provision. So I think it's yeah I mean, it's a tough one, but it's definitely something that we include in terms of the conversations with communities about their development there So hope that's helpful. Thank you so much Thank you. Yes, go ahead, please. Okay. Good afternoon My question is to anyone of the panelists and is regarding harms reduction and politics and I will take two examples in 1962 the Supreme Court of the United States Stated that addiction was a disease and not a crime Despite that the United States is one of the most repressive countries in terms of drugs The second example before my question is the example of South Africa Many years ago the South African government hired Dr. Peter Driesburg from California who said that AIDS was not related to HIV and Therefore the politics policies in terms of HIV in South Africa were different from other parts of the world I'm taking those two examples to illustrate the differences Between countries in terms of harm harm reduction and politics. Don't you think That an organization like the United Nations should take position to Bring a global perspective in terms of harm reduction. Thank you. Who would like to answer that? So with you Peter Actually, we try to do that like we invited officials from the United Nations eight UN 8 and the UN ODC the United Nations Office on drugs and crime and they came we organized the conference where they presented the joints UN 8 UN ODC if the WHO position on harm reduction and best practices and Our government listened and then they went home and they continued as they did before so they did not In my country, you know The government does not listen to the United States and the United Nations and if you look at the Philippines for example, you know, even if there was like a very strong condemnation from UN agencies of what the president is doing there like killing people The the the president of the Philippines just doesn't care about it So it's like as I said in in my presentation in the European Union The European Union also has a drug strategy and the Hungarian government signed it But when it comes to implementation, they just you know disregard it and that's like kind of limit of this big global multilateral Treaties and and and and papers like they they may be exist But but in the local scene the realities are very very different so I That's my opinion that that it has a very limited Role what what these international organizations can play in this local level? I mean in terms of in terms of this international infrastructure and to what extent it comes to bear on The situations in country it might be interesting to hear about the situation in Japan where you spoke about Ideas of Society Being elevated to such an extent that the individual ceases to so maybe in relation to this question. Do you think? These international agreements would come to bear Yeah Yeah It will be very big that if the UN changes their attitude, but at the same time I'm also Not so I cannot be so optimistic because even maybe UN said maybe just Recommendation where they cannot force the countries to do like that. So maybe because even now is like a broad consensus so some in the under this Convention some country to the criminalization than some country to primitive approach. So if it changes still it's maybe broad consensus stays and But it's it might be much easier for us to you know Promote harm reduction Advocacy so that's the reason we translate a lot of Materials from WHO or UN odc because if we say I'm Social worker or I'm NGO. Why don't you do? Decriminalization people don't hear from us, but if we say it's not from us It's from WHO it from UN then more people can you know take consideration of it So I kind of I want to also take advantage of that Thank you. Does that answer your question? Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes over here Sorry my apologies. Oh my my sincerest apologies. Sorry. You first and then you my apologies. I didn't see What policies or procedures are being done for women? In general In any of these countries as well. This one wants to know what kind of position or Things are being done on the ground for women in general in any of these countries. Sorry in terms of women who use drugs or Have reduction What's what's being done for them? C'est une question très intéressante donc en général je donne l'exemple du Maroc Depuis qu'on a démarré le premier programme d'échange de ce rang de réduction des risques en 2007 On lutte pour avoir des programmes destinés à la femme vu que la femme est les plus stigmatisées et les plus marginalisées par rapport à ses donc collègues homme De toute façon donc les services existent actuellement Ce sont des services destinés à toute la population des usagers de drogue sans faire la distinction sans prendre en considération les besoins spécifiques liés aux femmes même les structures les structures d'accueil de présence en charge sont faites pour accueillir la totalité de la population il y a même pas les services destinés aux femmes avec les enfants donc déjà ça ça donne vraiment des difficultés par rapport à la présence en charge des femmes qui dans la plus part des cas N'ont pas le temps pour se présenter selon les horaires des dessins de ouverture des centres avec les enfants et On nous semble toujours dans la lutte pour avoir vraiment une politique qui respecte le genre et qui respecte la spécificité de la femme vu que nous dans notre culture dans notre société sont la présence de ces programmes des si politiques et les vraiment difficiles de d'assurer une vraie prévention pour les femmes usagers de drogue et aussi de de réussir la présence en charge des femmes et l'orientation professionnelle From a yeah from a capacity building point of view when we're working with programs and people that are new to harm addiction that's part of the conversation is how you're gonna cater for specific populations that may have greater vulnerabilities women is one of them So, you know, we would talk about them about, you know, how are you gonna cater if women have children? How are you gonna create spaces that you know some of our programs in New York? For example have women only times that pick women can come so helping people to think that through I think is really important You know to understand the additional disproportionate impacts that women face in terms of the stigma around their drug use It's really interesting for me, you know Because what we're seeing at the harm addiction coalition is a lot more newer audiences coming to us So we've been asked to go to Alabama Sorry to Texas. Sorry again. We've been asked to go to Texas Which is a very you know thought as of a very conservative state around this stuff to speak to People who are working with women impacted by NAS neonatal abstinence syndrome Because they want to apply harm reduction in terms of engaging pregnant women So that's really hopeful that you know people pick newer audiences that perhaps weren't thinking about harm addiction in the past I'm now beginning to see that there's opportunities to engage Particularly women and pregnant women in a better way to get them into services. So We're slowly making, you know, those little steps forward in relation to You know impacting issues for women. So that's that's just from my experience that I've seen in my work So and you know just being more intense intentional in our intersectionality around, you know reproductive rights You know and working with people like, you know, national advocates for pregnant women We've done work with them as well to kind of do that intersection with harm reduction and other other public health issues So So in my country the policy itself is kind of say it's Nothing difference between male and female but of course in the society in the reality It's totally, you know, there's a big gap because we have a very very male oriented society and culture So but my colleagues who are working together I mean say I just we have three members including me and two of them are female one is a mother of the Mother who have a daughter who are struggling with, you know, using drugs and the other one is she is herself is Recovering people people who you know use drugs and so they have a very very severe Experiences as the people use drugs with a family member at the same time as a female in the society. So they they have they kind of Always seem like they are very repressed and try to do something So we that kind of the women the gender perspective is very very important for our advocacy activities Thank you. We just had one more question over here, and this will be our last question Thank you Concerno les les agences Oh les instruments onisien et surtout les instruments qui sont en relation avec les droits humains je crois qu'il faut donner beaucoup de l'importance Maintenant dans cette phase de notre plaie doit y est d'ici 2019 à tout ce qui est en relation avec ces instruments unisien de droit humain tout d'abord parce que il on peut jouer Sur ces instruments et surtout sur les rapports de ces instruments par exemple le dernier rapport qu'a été recommandé par le comissariat au droit humain par le conseil international des droits humains sur les impacts de la politique de la drogue sur la santé et qui était en autre faveur à notre plaie doit y mais on l'a pas utilisé suffisamment à l'unigas 2016 donc maintenant il faut qu'on C'est-à-dire qu'on lui l'a dit notre ami il faut un peu de renforcement de capacité de nos acteurs en matière de droits humains en matière de plaidoyer avec les outils de droits humains avec tout ce qui est dans les conventions parce que ces conventions ce sont des contrats entre les pays et il faut qu'on utilise ces contrats donc je crois que dans notre plaidoire et que ce soit plaidoire et locale régionale ou internationale il faut donner beaucoup de l'importance à tous ces instruments et les utiliser merci When we were you know preparing for the United Nations General Assembly special session on drugs which you know was last year in April in New York City one of the key recommendations of civil society was to create a Special you know human rights assessment system inside the UN drug agencies and inside for example the word drug report we recommend it to have a special chapter on assessment of human rights and the impact of Drug policies on the human rights of people who use drugs So that was a key recommendation from civil society and which also tried the European Union to champion this issue to you know to to make it's a part of the UN gas final document that the UN should create a human rights assessment tool Because there is now there is like no monitoring and no evaluation whatsoever in the United Nations level of the human rights Impact of drug policies, so it's like nobody is looking at it. I mean that you mentioned this report, but it's like there is no like systematic Coherence in the inside the United Nations system between the the drug control system and the human rights system so unfortunately our recommendation was rejected by by the Even by the European Union unfortunately, but I think I very much agree with you that it should be a key You know point on on our agenda in the future that we should demand that we need to look at the human rights in the context of drug control Alright, so we're just out of time and we ran to time. Thank you so much for such a Stimulating discussion. I'm sure you'll join me in thanking all of our wonderful speakers. Thank you so much