 Of y dyfodol y gweithio ein bod wedi bod yn gallu gweithio gyda fit ynddeion, ac sy'n gwneud yn greu'r gweithio ddiogelad o'r productau yn gweithio'r gweithio'r productau. Mae chan—nillwch ar ôl i fyf! Mae'n myf i gofio'r gwahodd hyn, ond mae'n dysgu y gallwn y peth yn cynliad bod y gallwn hanfodol o fe wneud hyn yn cael ei ddechrau'n gweithio. Mae'n ambuddwch at y peth o ffrif ac mae'n gweithio'n gweithio peth. I helpu ei ddweud o'r tyfnod, a gwybod i'r tyfnod yn cael ei ddweud, yn ôl amdano. Ac yn ei ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud. 64. A we're going to carry on from the last four podcasts all about driver behaviours. And in this one, myself and the wonderful Bob Cook, we're going to be looking at the hurry up and please others or please me, whichever term you like to use. Let's start with hurry up, because off air you saying, oh, let's get on with this next podcast. Sex and I made that very, I don't know, a cute observation about hurrying up. But Pat, you want to say a little bit as you used to do about driver behaviour if people haven't heard the last three podcasts on drivers. Well, if you haven't heard the last few podcasts, I would recommend going back and listening to the last four. You're going to sing it and we'll hang around for half an hour while you run through them at dawnspeak. But it is important if you want an overview to go back and listen to the previous ones because we've kind of covered them all individually. But our driver behaviours are a defence mechanism that we get when we're very young. We get them through recognition and validation, unspoken recognition and validation from our parents. So it's through gestures and things like that. You were not told this directly from our parents and also entwined in all of that are the injunctions, all the don't messages that we get. And we use our driver behaviours all the time in everyday life. And as we said in previous podcasts, it's usually these sort of things that bring people into therapy in the first place around communication. That's right. OK, hurry up. So if somebody is exhibiting hurry up driver behaviour, they will be feeling the pressure of life. They'll be filling their days with lots of appointments. They'll be getting up early in the morning to make sure they can get the appointments on time or even earlier and get their hapus eight instead of nine o'clock. Or they will be people who really scurry around even that's an old term scurry around. But anyway, because they don't want to waste any time in the day. They got lots of things to do and they are busy themselves with the many events and appointments that they put in their darwys. One of the interesting things I found about hurry up drivers and I can categorically say this with clients that are in the hurry up is that always late. They get up early for everything to give themselves plenty of time. But there's always something else that needs doing just as they're coming out the door or they aim to come to therapy to stop off shopping on the way and they get held up with something. So they're always either on the last minute or actually a few minutes late and come in. Bursting through the door. That's right, because there's always something else to do. Yes, yeah, 100 percent. You know, and that's very true. Like the skidsoi character will be always on time to the dot or a bit earlier or the highly adapted please driving person. But the hurry ups are always often a few minutes late because lots of in fact they've often double booked themselves as well. Quite possibly, yes, yeah. And I know we're smiling when we say this. But I think this is one of the ones that is really clear to see somebody that's in the hurry up driver. Some of them are quite subtle, but I think this is one where you will know if you're in your hurry up driver behaviour because it's a rabbit caught in headlights. It's that manic behaviour where you're just going from one thing to the other. The diary is always full. You're not very good at just sitting and being with yourself or your thoughts you just up and doing. Usually very slim people as well, I hear some to add, because of all the running around. I mean, these sort of people, you know, in their sessions will talk very fast. Yes, extraordinarily fast. I'm always having to tell them to slow down instead of like and then they start just as fast as that's before. There are people who don't pause for breath, actually, and they just carry on on. And I am often saying it's OK for you to take deep breath. The world won't collapse given the permission to just slow down for a moment while we can talk about what's really important. But there are people who I often think they're very agitated and they are agitated. But I think it's more like what you just said, it's phonetic energy. Yeah, constantly twiddling the legs or fidgeting or something. Yeah, and I think it's really interesting what you said about you say to them, it's OK to take some time and to just slow down. I've been in sessions where I found myself hurrying up. I'm kind of pacing myself to them before I realise I've got a minute what's going on. I need to slow it down rather than speeding up to them. That's right. So when you're taught to the counselor or therapist, it's very important to pace yourself with your client. Or you're very important to attune yourself with these types of people. It's really important to actually change the pace. Yeah, you know, even my heart, I notice my heart speeding up and it's like, what's going on? Yeah, yeah, and they do double book and I did smile on earlier on, they do tend to arrive a bit late because they've used double book to the gods, squeezing the final gym session before they actually get to the session or something like that. And there's no sense of being able to stop, reflect on life. They have to get to the top of the mountain double quick and back down again. And if they've got any more time, they'll go off a bicycle ride or perhaps they'll go swimming or maybe, you know, they'll fit in the last, the last one of the day. But they're always doing things, fitting in things, just like you said. And the problem about that, of course, is they don't really reflect on themselves, their life. They don't pay attention to their body. They're always running away from cells. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important to mention, I know I've said it in a few of the other podcasts, is that we have access to all five of these driver behaviors. It's not, you know, we might have a few that are where I go to ones, but we can be strong at certain points of the day and try hard and please others and we can access all of these. So it's not that we just have one and that's it for the rest of our life. No, you're right. And we will have favoured drivers because we've been programmed that way. Yeah, my mum used to say it's awful to think about it and I can't believe that she used to tell me. She used to say, we always thought you were going to die very young. And I was like, what do you mean? She said, because you're always in such a rush, it was as if you knew that you weren't going to have enough time to finish everything. So I think even as a child, I used to talk in my sleep. It was like I never shut down. She said you wouldn't. And goodness knows what decisions you made, but you were programmed, if you like, to be a certain way. Yeah, but she'd say you'd sit up in bed straight away, you were wide awake and you'd just start talking and that was it. She said everything was like at 100 miles an hour when you were younger. Yeah, and the problems are, and it may not be with you, of course, is, again, I was thinking of couples particularly, and they come in and ask what they want and one of the partners says, well, actually, I want him to slow down. He's doing this, this, this, this, this, and there's no time for the relationship. No time for intimacy, no time to enjoy sex, no time to enjoy pleasure, because they always have to go on for the next thing. There's no real satisfaction. Satisfaction isn't completed because they go on to another cycle. That's it, yeah. You don't revel in the glory of achieving anything. You just straight on to the next thing. Which leads to very severe or can lead to very severe problems in relationships and specifically around satisfaction and intimacy. Yeah, 100%. And it's interesting being somebody that does go into my hurry-up driver sometimes, it's really difficult to be with people who are slow. Right. I want to pull them along with me sometimes. It's like if I go shopping with my mum or my sister, they obviously they're older than me, but it's just like, it's a trauma to go at a snail's pace sometimes. It's very uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. And you can, of course, feel very vulnerable from that process. I just don't know how to do it sometimes. As a therapist, it's very, very important to give people commissions to slow down and say, you know, the world's not going to collapse if you take a big breath. Is this how it is for you in life? Do you think that if you just slow down or reflect something bad's going to happen? Yeah. I think I need to say in this as well. This is not how I behave in the therapy room. I'm talking about me personally. I'm completely different in the therapy room. If you were therapy with them when you were exhibiting your hurry-up driver, like you're just talking about in a very intense way, you'd be zooming through the sessions so quickly. You'd probably do three sessions in one. You'd be exhausted, and you wouldn't be able to see anyone for the next session. I do think I need to say that I don't hurry anybody up when they're in the therapy room with me. No, but it is. It's really interesting. One of the things I used to do when I was training, I think it might have been you that said to do it, was to people watch and see if you can work out what driver behaviour people are in. If you're in a cafe, just not listening into conversations, but just looking at the body language and how the sat and the expressions that they're using and things, and use that as a way of getting familiar with certain traits that we all have. Because it does come in useful in the therapy room. Yeah, and just as important to think about what are those defences covering up. Yeah. Because that's where you're heading in the end. Yeah, that's the end. Yeah. You could watch these soaps, but turn the volume down. Then you can look at these driver's behaviours and think about what they're covering up. That's an exercise often used to give students. I think you probably gave it to us, good old sorts. So we've touched on the hurry-up that I quite like, the hurry-up driver. Yeah, one thing about the hurry-up, as used like it, is if you've got a therapist who unconsciously comes from a hurry-up position, what do you think might be some of the problems for the therapy? If the therapist did it from that position unconsciously, not like you did a lot of therapy, you understand that word through all that stuff, but I was thinking about the therapist, or the counselor doesn't have any therapy, by the way, which is another story. What do you think therapy would have looked like if they were coming from that position themselves? I'm not sure if it would be evident in the room, but I think they would probably feel frustrated if it wasn't moving along at the certain pace. Right, the therapist would feel very frustrated if something wasn't happening, if cure didn't happen quickly. Yeah, or quick enough that they think it should happen. I think it's really important this, because I think therapists need to do their own therapy around these things, because otherwise, they may unconsciously come from these places. Yeah, yeah, totally. And we do all dip in and dip out of it all the time. It's just, for me again, and I know I say it virtually in every podcast, it's all around awareness, in a way that these things even exist, is the first step as a therapist or counselor. Yeah, well, hopefully our podcast is to help people here. Yeah. So, on to the last one, which is please others. Please, please, others. Yes. Well, I hope we're doing a good job pleasing people here. You please me every week, Bob. Every week. No, no. I always smile, you know, and I'll say to people in training, things like that, if clients come in with very intense please, me or please others, drivers, and you can get lots of cup of tea and biscuits and presents. They aren't the most pretty attractive clients in that sort of way. But the problem is if you have intensity with this type of pleasing others, drivers, then the problem is you can act and feel like a doormat. Yeah. Because you're always, hopefully, the thinking anyway from a young age is if I please other people all the time, then I'll get recognition for doing that. And the problem is in real life when they start realising that isn't the case. Yeah. Yeah, 100 per cent. They're doing all this good stuff and, you know, I don't know whether it's expecting or wanting the validation, but when it's not forthcoming, they get pretty peed off with those people around them for not noticing the effort and time and everything. Yeah, yeah. Both on. So if you're in a very intense please driver for whatever reasons, then you're not really honouring yourself. And the therapy is very clear to get helping you get to a place where you can have some self agency to be responsible for your own self definition to start reflect on yourself and all these things. How again, if you've been programmed a certain way, then that feels very uncomfortable to do that. Yeah, yeah. I think there's again, you know, I think there's drawbacks to all of this, but I think with the please others, there's an awful lot of guilt when we start to prioritise ourselves. And that, to me, is the thing that you're often working with, with please others, is trying to, you know, if you're talking about self love and self compassion, it's really difficult for them to focus on themselves rather than the other in a relationship. Yeah, because I think they're being self indulgent. Yeah, selfish. It's that's not what we do. Yeah. Yeah. So you get all these sort of, you know, these words that come from childhood, really. Yeah. Of any parent words, actually, put onto the child. Yeah. And they certainly do come with guilt and shame, if they're not actually compulsively cared for people. Or if they're actually, you know, spending time reflecting on themselves and quite often coming to therapy, of course, brings up this negative self critic that maybe they're self indulgent and they're gazing at their own navel, or they're spending the time to reflect on themselves when really they could be out saving the world or whatever. Yeah. It's a waste of money. Why are you doing that? All these things that go with that process. So in your book beside you, what's to say in terms of the behaviours that would be exhibited that people would see that might indicate the person is in the police, others, driver? It says that the tone of voice is usually high or squeaky, quickly raising at the end, like you're asking a question. Gestures reaching out with the hands usually palms up and head nodding. I do a lot of head nodding. Posture, shoulders hunched up and forward, leaning forward to the other person. So whereas the B strong might be sitting back with their arms folded, the police others would be more moving forward. And facial expressions. I must have wrote this at some point during my training because it's about the heads usually lowered and the eyes are open. Straight away, I must have thought about Lady Dye. You know Lady Dye, you sit up down and then look up. I don't know that the other person is higher than us somehow. I thought that was really interesting. Yes. That level of deferring, that level of moving away from the self can be very problematic again in relationships. And eventually what happens is they will resent, they put in all this effort, this extra work, pleasing and all these things hoping for recognition like they got from their mother and father when they did it or significant people. And if they're not getting that type of recognition or approval in the same way, they then start to persecute or resent process. And that's when communication starts to break down. And again, I think it's really interesting how sometimes it shows up in the therapy room as well with somebody that's please others or please me. They don't want to take up time in the therapy room. They will keep trying to switch the focus onto something else or asking how you are and following you into that. You mentioned the two biggest dynamics, one where they were weighed to talk about themselves to the 59th minute. And the second one, of course, where they'll continually ask you, they'll come in and you'll say something like, well, what's it been like in the last week for you? Oh, well, let's not talk about me. How have you been, by the way? How have you been? I noticed last week you had a bit of a sniffle. Have you actually recovered and what's been happening for you? Now, that scenario, I can smile about it, but it's tragically sad. Because they will have been taught that programme that got recognition of that type of behaviour as a child. So they've decided X and then they decide, but if they don't get back the recognition, the approval or whatever they're looking for, they feel very deflated. And will bring tremendous problems in relationship, that dynamic. And if they're with a sort of person who's, for whatever reasons, finds intimacy or certain difficulties in the relationship, they could easily treat them like a doormat. Yeah, and it's when the worm turns, so to speak. You know, when I think about, please others, I always think about the drama triangle, that they're a rescuer, but then at some point they turn into the victim and then the persecutor and get really peed off when they're not getting their needs met. But they don't want people to meet their needs. So it's like a catch-22 situation, a bit of a marvel at the time. That's right, and tragically it's all set up in childhood, because in childhood, or of course, it worked properly. They got some of their needs met, and of course tragically, if they still try to go along with those outdated behaviours, then when they move from the family of origin, problems may arise. Yeah. And then we will see them in therapy. The south referring, pleasing others, dynamic, which a therapist really needs to hear that story, understand it and look for what's missing underneath it, which is what I keep going back to with these drivers. The purpose folly is if they concentrate too much on the defences and behaviours without looking at what is being defended or covered up underneath. Yeah, and again, I just think it's a brilliant tool to use in the therapy room. This is one of the reasons why I love transactional analysis. It's just another wonderful method of working these things out, connected to the script and the injunctions and everything else. So, I agree with you. I've enjoyed the opportunity in the last, how many podcasts to talk about these defences and driver behaviours, and hopefully get the message out with us. First of all, it was a wonderfully bright adaptation, if you like, to work out what the parents would give them recognition for and adapt that behaviour, even though it might give them problems in life today, and that's why they're in the therapy room. But the other thing is to encourage the therapist to look at what's beneath the defence processes as the most important place to explore. In the service of health. Yeah, very gently explore. Yeah, it doesn't mean you get rid of the defence mechanism. It means understanding what the defence mechanisms are about, which will enable the therapist to go to help the person to discover the person that's been there all the time underneath the defence process. And I know I've mentioned it in a previous one of these ones. I think it was in the first one. But if you want to know a little bit more, I do have a quiz on my website, which is jackiejones.co.uk. And if you just check out under free resources, there's a little quiz that you can answer and little videos that go along with them that people might find useful because I'm a people pleaser and I like to please people. Yeah, you don't have to please Jackie by doing it. You can do it from your adult out of curiosity. But it is, these quizzes are interesting. I quite enjoyed doing a quiz when I was trying to work out which one I am. So until next time, Bob, I've not got a topic for the next one. So it'll be a surprise. Once again, people can just enjoy the curiosity, the spontaneity of listening to us next week to see what we're going to be talking about. 100% it's going to be a surprise for all of us. All of us. Until next time, Bob. Yeah, bye bye. Bye.