 Okay. So, welcome to our meeting, everybody. It's, yeah, 6.16 this afternoon. It's a beautiful day. Of course, we have a board meeting and it's stop raining. So, thank you for making time for being here, both the administrators and all of our board members and the public. And Kari, thank you for joining us from afar. We have a full agenda today, so I'm going to try to get it started as soon as possible into our meeting. We don't have any members of the public today, but I don't see anybody. Oh, we have a couple. I just want to start a meeting today by acknowledging that we've had a great start of the year. We have had open houses. There's one, Romney. There's a couple of people that are late today because Romney is having her open house today. A U32 had their open house. There's sporting events happening this afternoon for our soccer team too and others. So, it's exciting to see the kids getting started with a year and our administrators and our teachers getting excited too. The board is excited for you guys. We, I'm wondering if there's any adjustments to the agenda. Any, so reception of guests, thank you everybody for being here. I don't totally see you, but I see your names on the screen there. Thank you for coming to our board meeting. Lisa is not able to join us today, so we're recording. So, let's try to be very... Oh, she made it back. Oh, you made it. But we are also recording. So, Lisa, we're recording. Thank you for making it. And I hope you feel better. You're a trooper for joining us. So, let's move into public comments. Are there any public comments today? Please raise your hand if you are on Zoom and we like to make a public comment. Seeing no hands up, I assume that there's no public comments. And I'm going to move right into reports to the board. The superintendent report. Sure. And the leadership team. Megan. I was going to highlight a couple things. One, Mark, I wondered if you wanted to give an update on the website. Sure. So, as you may know, we've been hosting our websites for years with a company called Blackboard. Blackboard was purchased by Final Sight last year and they are asking... they've decided that everyone will use their platform. So, we've been working on moving our existing sites to the new platform. That also involves quite a lot of learning about how the new platform works and the editor there is different from what it was. There's a lot of new features and things that we are trying to determine. We'll try to determine whether we should or should not use certain ones. We worked on getting updated directories. We'll be getting updated pictures for all the staff. And so, we started out by trying to... a goal of getting it working last year before the end of the year so everybody could... kind of as parents could get used to the new site, staff members could get used to the new sites and we just couldn't make that. We're hoping this summer to get things going but with personnel changes, the IT department has taken on a bit of extra work with software management and other things that Michelle did and had years of experience with so there was some learning time that had to go into that. We aren't quite there yet but we are getting close and so this fall we expect to see a change over to the new website, be a cleaner look and we think there will be some better ways to access information and whether it be staff members trying to get information from the HR department or information about technology and how to do it or newsletters, whatever it might be. I think that there will be an improvement there. We sure wish it could have happened sooner but we are getting closer and hoping for yet this fall. If you have any questions or anything about it, I can expound some more. Otherwise, that's a work in progress. Always surprising how much there is to do in tasks like that. Was there a motivating reason for changing? That we had to, right? When that company when the final site purchased Lapboard they made the decision that everyone would convert to their final site editor in their platform. We wouldn't have had to start quite so soon but if we did it by a certain time if we made the decision to convert then they didn't charge us for any of the costs of moving the site over and things like that. The hard part about that is moving the site because they do do that for you but then there's all kinds of tweaks that you have to do and things like that. The new platform is better. There's no question about that. But it is a requirement. Thank you. Thank you. Karen, I didn't know if you wanted to share a little bit about the ability challenge. Sure, I would love to. So much to share but I'll try to keep it brief. So we are launching into an objective analysis of our special education system which is really exciting. We've partnered with the Ability Challenge which is a non-profit organization out of Washington, D.C. and really my thinking behind it was moving into the third year of this role noticing that we've had changes as you are familiar with in leadership. We had the impact of COVID and we're a unified system moving forward. So we've had all of these sort of shifts and adjustment in our system and we're moving forward in a more consistent way and so we're analyzing our special education system to understand sort of what's working for students with disabilities, what isn't working for students with disabilities. I'm particularly I'm not interested in the staffing challenges but I'm aware of the staffing challenges and there's really no end in sight when we think about special education. I know that bachelor's programs are closing because we don't have a lot of people that are signing up to be special educators and so we're interested in learning really what components of our system do we want to highlight and think about and sort of how can we maintain what we're already doing well while also thinking creatively about the needs of all students in our system. So it will look like surveys and interviews I'm really excited to learn about focus groups with students and what does it feel like? What is it like to be a student with a disability in our system? What are the outcomes for students with disabilities that are different from other students? Again I could go on for some time but I'll leave it there with any questions you might have. From the ability challenge are you interacting with one individual? Two people which is really exciting and then they have a team of kind of an analysis team, the analytical team that will look at a lot of our data but the people that I'm interfacing with and that will be in our schools it's two women. And what's the time for us as students? Oh great question thank you. It's starting now and they'll be here in October and there's an alignment with our strategic planning which is exciting. In December or January it will conclude and we'll have a report. I should also share that Montpelier School District also moved through this process and if you're interested their report is available they went through this process last year I believe. Yep and so in the hope is December or January we will have some outcomes of that and then we'll start really sifting through the data together and thinking through I'm excited to do some real shared values work. What do we believe in for our kids? How do our practices and procedures reflect that? And how do we make sure that students in East Montpelier, students across our district are all having a comparable experience while also maintaining what is unique about the different communities. I just want to say I'm super excited about this I think I aligns really well with the strategic plan that we're doing right now and learning for informing the strategic planning of this process and other lines so I'm super excited. I was just going to point out two other things. One is this is the time of year when you have a chance to look at my goals this year it's in here in your packet you can read and I will welcome questions it is a little bit less of a presentation than it was last year mostly because the goals are based around the goals you asked that I developed which is to develop a communication plan and to continue shepherding through the strategic plan process. I also have a series of goals around instructional leadership because obviously that's probably the core focus of my work so those are in there steering committee has taken a look at them a few different times in case there are questions and then the last thing is mostly just a logistical piece just to kind of streamline the reporting I'll be moving the vacancy report and updates on how we're doing into the Colt report so that you sort of see it all at once. Tonight there happen to be a number of personnel actions that you'll take so we'll probably end up having more questions at the personnel section but in the future when there aren't a lot of action items and it's just the information for you I'll integrate it into the Colt report so you'll see that it's in there right now Those are my highlights happen to answer other questions Any questions for Megan? Moving right along the central Vermont Carrier Center I included the newsletter from Jody in the packet I'm wondering if there's questions about it or if there's something She was able to be here for our open house on September 7 and shared information with our students questions just because we have a very tight agenda I thought that and you can see there's a link in the newsletter to the latest program book and shows all of the programs that are you guys want to get familiar with that 3.3 reports we're going to do the BSVN that stuff later so let's move right into finance so I'm wondering if I could have a motion and we'll have discussion toward the bid for the U32 truck any of the finance committee members willing to make a motion I move that the board authorize the superintendent to purchase a 2024 GMC Sierra HD regular cab pickup for an amount not to exceed $45,917 after allowance for the trade in of the 2012 truck and snowplow thank you Ursula second thank you Daniel any discussion I have a question just because in the table it said it does not include the plow the trade in value and in our motion it includes snowplow so what they gave us for a value did not include the plow and there's still the lower bidders when we trade it in it will include the plow so that's why I did the ceiling of $45,917 it will likely be less we're just not certain it wouldn't give us a value on the plow until we brought it down to them they're in Rutland so we didn't have it thank you does the quote for the new vehicle include a new plow if we're trading in our old plow Chris so we see that there's a $3,500 difference between Alderman's and Capital City but the difference in the vehicle is $2,500 versus a $3,500 and I will tell you I don't know what that means but I'm assuming the $3,500 is more powerful does that make a difference in terms of durability in terms of what the vehicle is expected to do if you don't know it's the we do not need the larger vehicle size to be able to accomplish what we need because we also have another truck that can handle that Capital City did not have a $2,500 in stock to quote us so we took the $3,500 as a quote because it will meet our needs and then seeing no other hands up all those in favor of approving the motion as read by Ursula and second by Daniel please signify by saying aye aye any opposed any abstaining thank you everybody so now we're going to look at reviewing and approving the budget timeline in page 14 so I am looking for a motion for that and then we'll discuss anybody willing to make a motion to approve the budget timeline thank you Chris a second thank you any questions or any discussions to look at it we made adjustments from last year as pretty self-explanatory and I think the things to look at is what is next for us we're September 20th today and we'll be having the next finance committee on the 10th and the 20th is what we have scheduled for the next finance committee that includes the restructuring but any questions sorry I'm not doing a good job at looking at the screen okay I'm good thank you I just think it's relevant I'm just curious about how the food service budget is developed like a little bit more about how does that work is it principles in concert with you Suzanne that developed that and do we do district wide procurement for food do you know that no we're seeing no other hands up all those in favor so proving the timeline for the budget please signify by saying aye aye aye any opposed any abstain so now on page 19 you guys have the parameters we just reviewed them a minute ago with the finance committee I'm also looking for a motion and then we'll have robust discussion and improving the parameters I move that we approve the budget parameters for the 2024-2025 budget thank you Ursa second thank you Daniel and now if you want to move into page 19 and take a look and see if you guys had any questions I was thinking that I read out like my if I get there I would love for the benefit of the recording and the people that don't have it in front of us so first I included the equity policy so that we when we look at this and when we are working on the budget we remember to have that as the umbrella for as we look at each of the parameters so in educational I'm just going to quote a little piece of it educational quality occurs when each child receives what they need to develop to their full academic social and emotional potential equity goes beyond the formal equity where all students are treated the same and then I included the bullet points below but I wanted to just go over each parameter just quickly so the parameter number one that we would be agreeing to is continue to offer and for develop the multi-layer system of supports to all students across all our schools and professional development for teachers any questions on that one two include resources to set and achieve accelerated growth goals in math and or literacy proficiency for students on an individualized education plan and those who are economically disadvantaged any questions on that or there's been a goal of ours as we review data yes Chris are all students on an individual educational individualized educational plan all students that's this is specifically speaking to students with disabilities eligible for special education students do have a personalized learning plan seven through twelve yes slightly different though number three continue to support our three pillars justice and humanity safe and healthy schools and educational achievement four yes sorry can I ask the question on number two actually yes the economically disadvantaged part is that tracked somehow or is that just in general we want to make sure people are doing the same it's a technical term it's the term used for individuals living in poverty the metric most that people are familiar with is free and reduced lunch however that whether or not we always use that as a metric is a little bit of a question but the metric of free and reduced lunch represents students who are economically disadvantaged it's a subgroup that we know isn't performing the way we want them to and we want that's why they're in the school it's a good question the yeah the only way we measure it right now is through free and reduced lunch there's a lot of conversation about that's not the best measure especially now that we're providing universal meals because there's less of a motivation which is actually why we switched to the more generic term because no matter how we decide to measure it who we're talking about is students who are economically disadvantaged yeah no good question okay so moving to questions of three I'm assuming so moving to number four under the threshold for penalty we don't have an excess spending so for new board members there's always been an excess spending if we go above the excess spending we pay an extra dollar Suzanne can correct me so an extra dollar per 100 or trying to per dollar but it's currently able to say yeah do you know what that threshold would be if it was enacted yeah and for how long is it how much longer do we anticipate indefinitely and that's why in parenthesis I just suppose we don't have an excess spending threshold at the moment but we'll use the average of the previous years just to give us a target and it's just one of the board members whose decision is it to reinstate it they just made sure so just a question about the not yet I'm saying let's go how wild without a sign but I guess what I'm wondering is by putting it in there if I'm looking at these as guardrails it's to me I'm finding with leaving it there but for me it would be more so because it doesn't exist that it's more that I consider what that average is and knowing because the again wanting to respect these parameters as best we can to be physically responsible I just want to be sure that I'm not saying yep I'm all for that when the threshold actually doesn't exist right now so I just want to be transparent about that Any clarifying questions on that Number five bring the next impact of the expenses budget under the October inflation rate in the past we had had at least a percentage the finance committee talked and decided that giving them the inflation rate made more sense than putting an arbitrary percentage that we really didn't know what it was so in the past we had said 3% you know 5% so that's why that is there Any questions? Not knowing what the October inflation rate is but it would be real right? Cardi do you want to speak to that one? Yeah I mean I think in a sense that is the an expectation for a lot of people that they expect inflation to be a factor that we know that expenses in general are going to increase about that amount so it seems like a good thing for us to target to and we will know that number I guess maybe not the next time we meet but a month from now for sure we'll have that number and you know it's tracking somewhere around between 3% and 4% so I think we retracted the idea that we're not setting it as floor set arbitrarily it's based on this metric that applies to everyone and seems reasonable then So our last year budget vote was a difficult one and so are we going to know what the transition of budget proposed budget is in terms of specific personnel cuts so we can have that discussion earlier rather than later because I don't think it serves us or our communities to have that type of discussion later in the process than earlier So what you'll have earlier this year is in your budget training which is the October training which normally is just and it still will include this here's how and finance works in Vermont we will add a baseline budget assumption it's what we used to call a level service budget we'll give you that information in October so you will know the current reality of what it would take to do what we're doing right now in a year you'll have that number a month earlier than you normally do that gives you an opportunity to compare that number to this number and decide if that changes right you get to decide that then the budget that we present you in November will be a more concrete administrative recommendation if you remember last year what we gave you was this is what it would look like to come in at your parameter and here's what would actually we didn't meet your parameter in the first one here's the other things that would happen our approach this year is to be much more concrete so that in November what you get at the first draft budget is here's our recommendation and will that include in order to meet the recommendations depending on what depending on what that looks like it would have reductions yes and remember identified ones just because again I think it's harder to have that discussion at the end of the process as opposed to it depends Chris on what the reductions are right I would so yes you'll know the key areas and it's not a secret to anyone 80% of a school budget is staffing and we have $580,000 in grant funds right off the top we all know these things so yes you will know the budget areas in which we would be looking at just to add to what Megan was saying in October 18 when we were going to do the budget training we're going to be using that budget as a training tool though because I don't want people to think that we are presenting something to the board that we're not presenting to the public right we're using this budget number because it would be an accurate way to train the board with what the needs are you know if it's a level service and it's giving you your context context exactly so it's not one it is it's a budget that we're going to use specifically for training so I have two questions about this so this is giving us that sense of where the number is coming from in the past it has been a number correct like last year this is where we had put the percentage of what we were saying so then it compares to our parameter last year that we ended up really blowing past do we remember was that 3% 6% so I just want us to think about that that we're saying in this one that potentially it's going to be a 3-4% net impact as opposed to last year what our parameter ended up looking like then the other thing is I just wonder about the that's fine but we need to be very clear of what we're saying if we already know that the agreement hasn't been approved yet but we know is that already showing I mean if we already know that's pushing us that's going to inform it so I just want us understanding when we agree to these parameters the reality of what we're agreeing to as we start the conversation because well you know I just think because I can't say numbers yet that's just again trying to be as transparent as we can as we start these conversations and I think the purpose of this parameter is to bring clarity to our administrators so they can plan in order to inform us and this year we have the extra the SR funds start to be disappearing so it's even more important to have clear parameters for them to especially those 3 go ahead Chris yeah I think it's also important so it feels a little uncomfortable to me to approve wholeheartedly this thing that we don't really know what the number is if it's tracking 3-4% if it comes in 2.5% is that even a realistic number I don't know it just seems like yeah it feels uncomfortable to say sure well we're going to make this important parameter at the October inflation rate when we don't even know what that is and last year I think naming a specific number was challenging to develop the budget in general so I know we need guidelines but I guess I would say it's a guideline it might be that it's not achievable even to meets to the meets with that but we would know that when they come back and inform us in order to if it's 2.5% like you're saying we would need to cut x million dollars and we can't do it it's that conversation back and forth the parameters are guidelines that we want them to take them serious but it becomes a point that it's not realistic like it's 2% and we can't do it because that means that we can't educate several children like we need to then we need to talk about it again does that answer your question so we can amend the parameters in October so we would be able to talk about it but I don't want to give the notion in other finance committee members can help with that I want them to think of this parameters as what they are, guidelines to reduce parameters to give them the ability to be creative in addressing the needs of the kids and making sure that the budget as way that we have been created for the past few years is that we start with what is best for kids we're making sure that we're saying please stay within those three pillars also just make sure so we are creating an era it's not just about the numbers the numbers represent what we are inspiring for our kids Daniel? I was just going to say I think of the level service budget as maintaining a status quo in terms of the educational services getting delivered and I think of a budget pegged to inflation as maintaining a status quo in terms of expenses and there are two useful things to compare to a decision in the meaning that immediately preceded this the finance committee we talked about the potentiality of not all of these being able to be served equally so I think we should be or can be open to the fact and maybe it's an eventuality that yeah some of these are in conflict I think it was the term used because they can butt up against each other but it's a good starting place and they're all things we want if we can have them all Chris you had a question on your parameters I hear guidelines not straight check in conversation meaning parameters to strive for but not to fall on your sword okay and I would just add sorry so no I saw Diana but specific to that just like we said last year if administration doesn't feel like we can provide education to students in this district at the parameter you've set we will tell you that in the course of this which I don't know if maybe that is maybe you all assume that anyway but we would be coming back to you and saying um I don't recommend a budget at that level we might I don't I don't want to predict but I get to stole my thunder sorry because that was exactly what I was going to say because it is what you did for us last year the first after the level funding budget when you came back and you said this is everything we did and it got us here but we can't make that 6% parameter that we had set and we had to have conversations about that so our administration does think about all of the parameters and then goes this is what we can do with that and so they showed us they were able to do that last year and the other thing I was going to point out is just before this meeting finance met and we also talked about balancing the parameters not just that they might be in conflict but that there would need to be a balance and I was just going to say one of the reasons why I feel we're discussing this a lot is at what when we met as a board with leadership team I remember clearly there was I read it as frustration I could have misread it that frustration over the fact that we had these parameters and then we seem to not pay attention because of the decisions we had made so I just want to be sure we're all clear around what we're agreeing to and what some of those things mean and I just think it's good to have the discussion now when we dig into what the reality looks like okay number six can I yeah three quick things is I misspoke before we won't have October numbers until November so I don't know if that impacts our process at all but I think to Diane's point we should be very clear about what we mean by the inflation factor because I just looked it up and what I was assuming when I referred to three to four percent I think I was just going on the national average but in my mind I was thinking that we would use the all items this is the CPI number from the Bureau of Labor Statistics all items in New England in August was only 2.3 percent so I guess if we were going to use that number I share whoever said that made that concern before I don't think that's probably realistic for us so I guess my recommendation might be to ask the finance committee to look at that parameter again or it's very complicated at least clarifying which term you're using whether it be national or the local I mean when we do the contract negotiations we think they fit in the New England inflation number yeah and I guess Kerry the other thing that we could do is leave the parameter there when the number comes out you know there's one parameter that you know Megan her team can come to us and say you know it's just it's unachievable right like this parameter is not something that we can do right now because the percentage is not I'm also wondering if what might be helpful is when you get that back of the envelope budget assumption number in October that number is going to be high we all know that if you look at that number or and then you look at the inflation number and you look at the space between those that might inform where you actually want that percentage to be and so you might just want that information before even having your next draft of the actual number so we could leave it for now and then make that decision once we have that information I see you nodding your head so I'm assuming you say yes were you about to raise your hand or I can go to the next one really quickly I was going to say do we want to rewrite it to include the that we're going to be using the CPI for all items in New England just in the in transparency right so it's written now that's what I would have used it's exactly what I'm thinking I'm just thinking if we have it in writing and people ask us where we pull that number from we said it CPI CPI so is that agreeable and I'll make it the nod and this is listening to us okay so number six develop us there was longer term configuration changes that realizes program quality improvements and results and improve student outcomes number seven continue to frame the budget decisions around at quality standards equitable distribution of resources and meeting student need in number eight continue to support investment in school security and by school security we mean everything right so cyber security is all two new policies that we passed this year so it's the physical any questions in those three otherwise I'm going to call for a vote so are we go ahead Chris is there a a sense of what we would do without first right now? yeah we're early enough in the process I would say what I would say is the same lenses that are in here now that we told you about last year we want to look at can we implement a quality education so we use the metric of at quality standards are we equitably distributing our resources across the system and are we accounting for differences in student need where we are right now is looking at all those lenses pulling the numbers in looking at our enrollment looking at student need Suzanne's getting a lot of budget assumptions negotiations is one of those baseline budget assumptions that's all gets packaged into what that top number is we already know we have significant grant resources going away so before we what's that? the grant resources the big discussions right now so once we know what that top where we are if we do nothing else that's when we really start leaning into okay what does that mean and what would we be looking at in the realm of reductions and that's being really realistic it is in the realm of reductions for sure but I think it's premature Suzanne is correct the conversation naturally has to start with the positions funded by grants and the grants are going away so right there that points to we got to at least have that conversation and then the bigger conversation so I'm going to I guess my only question was and perhaps it isn't important to have in here but it almost goes along the lines of somewhat of what those non-negotiables are and what to me those are are the things like the capital improvement like those were already committed to right so any of the monies that are in those kind of pockets in our budget need to stay right well those well for one thing those things those numbers are part of what gets made baked into the baseline or the assumptions my point being as an understanding that's not up for debate or is it no it is not it is not up to debate because we have a capital plant right so we have put our resources we're not putting any extra money so when we had planned if we thought that there was a need to invest or improve that there would have been a parameter well I just wonder about the parameter touching I mean though that to me there are certain things within our budget that are really locked in and so that I just was I maybe doesn't need to be a parameter but I just think there needs to be an understanding of that well I would just say quickly technically unless you tell us not and I saying this makes it I don't I'm not saying that it is on our radar it's not we have a very solid and well thought out capital plan but I just want to be clear the board could decide to make changes in that area that's not voter authorized money which we couldn't right and again I am not sure that like that is I just want to be clear that you do have the authority to make that decision I just wanted to make sure that was the case then yeah it doesn't go with the parameters what are you making sure just because it sounds like you're if if we really and as a board we may commit to that where we say we're not touching the capital improvement plan we you know and I'm not suggesting we are but if that were truly a statement that was locked in then to me it should be a parameter because I should understand I'm not there's a pot of money there that I we're not touching what I'm hearing is right now all discussion is open it isn't our desire to dip into that capital improvement plan but as things it's not in our parameters so it may be an area of interest the money that we have already allocated for capital we're not going to take that money out the decision of whatever we have in the fund balance to to present whatever we're going to put in October to right or in November I'm trying to think where goes the same so there's guidelines and budgeting guidelines built into your capital plan that says every year we will put in and I think this year it says $920,000 plus anything that comes off for your debt service will add to that and so you've already sort of given me guidance for that number when you approved re-approved your capital plan in June so I feel like I've gotten your guidance through that if you wanted to change that guidance later absolutely you have that ability but I feel like I've gotten that guidance from this group that guidance is just basically assuming that that's what will happen with those particular questions built into the capital plan it's built into the I understand but it's not the plan was right in it that tells me exactly what number to use okay but that is only it's built into what we anticipate the budget would look like with that contribution to the capital plan which would be a certain amount of money and what we're no longer paying in debt adding on to that budget for your transfer for the year right okay but that's not locked in it is locked in because we have a permit as a board we have a permit as a board so but if we get to the point where there's personnel funding in a dire move versus funding a road we can make the decision to fund the personnel and the human matter as opposed to the concrete matter I think that's a really bad idea although we'd have to vote on it of course yeah I think we're can I bring this back to the parameters that we have right now I'm not trying to say that that is not important I think that we as a board had prioritized our capital plan from a while ago from hiring Chris to work with us to really creating a capital plan and we're still not putting enough money for all our buildings in order to maintain them so we can't let go now on doing I don't I'm not sure that we need to have a parameter because we have putting enough information I feel in the capital plan and for that to not be dismantled and we have an understanding as we as we budget of those priorities and the built environment being part of our student outcomes but I don't think we need to highlight it in the parameter unless we let's not go there right now that's a fact I think we have enough the person that is not saying if our human needs become greater than our capital improvement needs that's all I'm suggesting we can have that conversation later but again recognizing both yes absolutely so all those in favor of the parameters as submitted with the amendment this signify by saying hi hi hi any opposed any abstain so now let's move into the policy the policy work plan we had a great report thank you policy committee I was going to give it to Megan to get it started I was just going to say and perfect finally we agree to the floor you did say that you appreciated my update the other day though in your memo is just a reminder this is the time of year starting last year we created a policy review cycle to help guide the work of the policy committee it has three parts things we have to review because they have changed and they're required or they're new things we choose to review or develop if they're new and things that are on a cycle it's good practice to review so what's in front of you and this year was informed we had the opportunity to have the great schools partnership because of our contract for strategic planning they were able to do a policy analysis and make recommendations and the highlight of what they recommended is we made particularly with the equity policy last year a pretty strong step toward codifying some of the things that we believe in about education and that's a really important step and in their recommendation is that there are some pretty key places where we don't have policy to back up the work that this board supports us so we looked at that analysis to help us prioritize that middle section of our work plan which is what are the policies we want to either revise or develop so in the work plan that you see the draft the things that were prioritized from the great schools list are education philosophy and instruction so what do we believe about what instruction should look like teaching and learning about controversial issues library media center selection and reconsideration of materials that's actually an existing policy but there would be a recommendation to look at it and then community engagement and that's the policy committees look at the of the using that analysis and using what we know would be the recommended policies to review and the only other thing I'd say and then policy committee can weigh in right now these are not separated out by meeting time and it's not scheduled across the year because we would do that once you've given us direction about are these the right policies to review because some of them we wouldn't want to do until after the strategic plan is finished and so we might move that to later in the year so that's why it's all lumped together so this order of priority the bullet point threat of page 21 were based on policy committee basically looking across the board the partnership had recommended and voting essentially on which ones we thought would be most important to get to and so that reflects the committee's numbering and weighing of different policies that were recommended and I think I would add on to this is that we will work on and produce a school choice policy because it's come up a number of different times with two parts I believe and I think this is based on other districts policies is choosing from the start of the year and also changing during the year but one policy does not fit both of those situations but we'll have policies that do reflect a guidance on each of those situations so we hope you will endorse this work plan and I wish us good luck I'm moving for can somebody make a motion to approve and then I can move that we adopt the policy work plan and review cycle thank you Daniel second thank you okay so we have any other questions or discussion I also have a question so do we know which are mandatory review also is it appropriate that we add does this document represent the work plan the left hand column are all mandatory reviews those are ones that their existing policy actually it usually will say in parentheses so B20 is the personnel it's on I didn't realize that was part sorry it's down in the actual draft now I'm on the same page yes but that is a good question so yes the left ones are half dues the left hand side are half dues I have a question is the intention to go through the mandatory reviews first then the selected reviews and then if you have time I'll say the regular cycle so we've laid them out by meeting and so we'll probably do the mandatory first because we have to have those but if we thought a select was more urgent we would do that that's good another question how does the committee feel feasibility wise for this for this year well we got a a talking to by our chair about two week turnaround and I couldn't sit for a day or two but I feel better now so I think I think it's very feasible we agree you guys seem happy I just want to see like if we were like chunking a bunch in here that they might be I would towards that end that's a hard to follow comment when we do policy reviews the standard ones often there's nothing to change so those can often be done in a quick it's the ones in the middle frankly that are the require the most I just want to say that I was a gentle talk you know it's a culture action but gentle okay did I call all those in favor please by saying aye aye any opposed any abstaining the motion carries thank you everybody so we'll start who seconded that motion thank you okay thank you alright so I was going to take the four picture now and give us a five minute break and then just sit us through the end of the meeting okay we're going to get started we're going to focus through it right now you want to I was going to say if you don't already have a packet in the packet is the vision and core beliefs some of you are preferred to look at it in front of you but you might want to refer to it I think everybody else had a packet you're good at it so you want to get us introductions so I'll kick us off so this is your opportunity as a board to be a focus group so quick reminder and I know you've heard this overview before we are in the we have a draft vision and core beliefs that is in your packet and we are in the phase where we need to take that vision and core beliefs document first get feedback on it but also get some information from various perspectives about what should be our goals and action steps that's the next step so we're doing that in lots of ways but one of them is focus group and you are a focus group in and of yourselves so the first step in a second I'll give you a few minutes to go through the document we in phase one solicited an input from community members faculty, staff, students all of that information was compiled and landed in that document what you see is actually one of the most immediate pieces of feedback we got was readability and accessibility and so this is actually a version that is designed to be more accessible particularly for students that is actually and it is actually draft to so that is in front of you, it's had some feedback we want yours now so you're going to take a minute to read the document I'll give you about five and then I'll check in make sure folks are good and then we've got we'll give you a chance to ask clarifying questions and then Floor and I have a series of questions this protocol was built by the steering committee and actually the steering committee Floor, myself Jen, Steven that's all in this room and Jen is our note taker right now even though Lisa is taking official notes Jen is taking the ones that great schools partnership will take away we just have a typo question so on the transparent and responsible governance is it all decisions about our schools must center on students or is it center the student it says center students it's a verb meaning we're going to put students at the center correct so it's there with intention in the current draft that doesn't mean you can't give us feedback okay actually I'll check in in like three minutes because it and we can always have more time need another minute do you want us to pop them up on the screen actually we will put them up on the screen because there's other folks too reference that there are others are we seeing a different screen no that's you're all seeing the same those so I'm just curious because you said there were others so oh others on the screen yeah there are other participants yes other people on the screen people in the meeting in the meeting yes it just has a board member be nice to know okay so we have David so Kari's on the screen Kat Fair Lisa no taker Dave Delacour Orca media and David Lawrence yep sorry when you said others I thought you meant other folks ready to so clarifying questions if there are any so this was I mean this template looks familiar but this text here was compiled with the input of the folks that we've been having the focus groups and the engagements with it yes this came out of phase one engagement which was the one at the end of last year yes so not the focus groups yet this is just correct the meetings that we did here the online meetings and the survey yep was it created brand new yep drafted from all the themes yep from lots and lots of sticky lots of sticky notes what are some things that were brought up that didn't make the cut here or that were not included or that aren't reflected here um you know the structure of how this came about was like an affinity grouping so the group in the conference room had all of the data all the so first the grade school's partnership crunched the data and it into about 30 maybe even more yeah themes that all landed on little pieces of paper for real and those were all spread out we looked at them and created affinity groups in a couple of different ways and merged things so I almost would say um Jonas I'm not sure things were left out there were some things that were more relevant to quite frankly there were some things around regulations there were things around budget building um but the I would say the essence of them is in here yeah I mean I think there are like 16 discrete statements 16 sentences that are grouped here um yeah I was just wondering is this comprehensive or were there things okay there was a lot of the affinity there was a lot of affinity yeah Mikaelyn um thank you that struck me as being the same potentially as um like environmental stewardship or relationship environment or is that perfect there's a question later so no that's awesome that's great this is just anything else you would need to know about the document in order to we can segue that's great okay so I think for you got so we're gonna take five minutes yep for each of them and it's gonna help us time what do you find most exciting or important is that from reading the document right now we can go one by one or we have five minutes of you just whoever wants to volunteer to go first yes Jen just for the sake of the minutes in this document if you are referring to a specific form can you just tell me that and then a specific feedback about is tell me that up front please I'm not here to do it but if you want to provide feedback this is your time to do it any volunteers okay I see sir go Natasha go so I spent part of my morning presenting the IWIS framework for the EQS to the State Board and so I've been eating sleeping and dreaming this stuff and what I'm excited about is that what I relate to the State Board about the essence of the EQS is reflected across all of these pieces down to using same phrasing so that was really exciting to see that the work that we're already doing is lining up beautifully with the work that we're doing and that's the educational quality standards that are being updated for the State and that will be presented to us later you see that driving yeah and sidebar I'm going to give a little update just on the status of that and I'm sure Natasha because you are so immersed in it you can help with that but yes it's come up enough times that I think we should do an update on timeline and all that kind of stuff because it is exciting I agree next meeting yes sorry let me know if you want me to help with that yeah well the part that stood out to me as being at least one of the most important is the well-being part and you know the recognizing of academic, social, emotional I think that connects a lot with you know the two below it in relationships and community justice so I appreciate that part we have a comment on a clarifying question because that made me think of a clarifying question in that will students have the opportunity to reflect and share about their own focus group in each building and then the other thing I just wanted to say is I really appreciate how much this reflects all those conversations that we were part of I can hear that every one of those tables I really like the sequence and I feel like the three middle core beliefs I think are closely related and are all talking about really centering our humanity and human connection and I love that we have the rigorous curriculum and instruction at the top and at the bottom is sort of bookends to this sort of valuing human interaction our humanity and I don't know how intentional that was but well done I don't know if it was in a similar vein I really like that the first word here is rigorous seeing the word rigorous and challenging that's so I was going to say I really enjoyed the fact that these are all things we're working on too and so it's not like we're waiting for the strategic plan to be finished for all of these vision and chords and to have action items we're already doing action items we talked about one of them today where they're bringing in and studying our special ed stuff where we have the social emotional learning in the classrooms so we're not waiting it's things we're all reactively involved in so I think we have 20 seconds anybody else there's more questions to be able to be part and if there's more we can make more time, go ahead I'll just say that as a new person on the board I'm just really impressed with reading these and really happy to see a lot of the values that I really believe and we've looked at really well and really coherently and really spelled out a perfect segue so the next question is, is there something that's missing or confusing so Mikaelyn, gotcha that's perfect yeah at least for me environmental stewardship that you could probably fit into if we care about if we care about look at that I think the phrase financial responsibility gets thrown around a lot in our meetings and probably has a place in here I wonder if specifically under well-being if nutritional well-being has a place in here especially after because now we have school lunches and hopefully that continues forever but I don't know if that has a place here in the subset of physical needs but we could make it more explicit if we care about it the whole point of this is for you and then we integrated into everything else well then I would fit out there nutritional like being explicit about nutritional well-being and you're talking about well-being yeah it seems like a natural place for it to be a little less content related to community engagement in relationships I think the second or the last sentence is a little weak and ambiguous like when you say we encourage people but it doesn't people is a big object to be aiming at and I thought maybe both our similarities and our differences not just our similarities and our differences and to Jonas's point before he's a little bit more active well and I'm wondering about more like honor you know what I mean I guess words mean things and so I worry about saying challenge there just because I just worry about in this climate how that might be read second I was going to say in the first group we're talking about building our strengths I wonder if there should be something that also challenging students to work on their weaknesses just thinking about the comment around encouraging people to talk to each other I'm wondering if engage with each other as opposed to because talk to doesn't mean that you're listening or receiving it just means you're talking so engaging I feel like it's reciprocal and there's an expectation that that's going to be a two-way street as opposed to I would encourage that we we're engaged in the community because I think down right there the community must be a part of our schools is pretty weak just as I flop but I think engaging our schools must engage our communities is a more proactive and so thank you and can expect or should expect engagement from communities in return like it's not a one-way street is there an element here of expecting students to be inserting and engaging back because a lot of this is providing creating and hoping for some type of student engagement and reaction so I think we can incorporate that as an you know what I mean so it's kind of reciprocal of creating an environment that hopes to encourage these characteristics that we hope for our students in an environment that we hope will do that and kind of applies to multiple to each of them really yeah that's no I'm taking my back good timing okay next question so the next question is I see this happening now we do a good job with I see this happening now blah blah blah we do a good job with so if there's any of those two questions that you would like to answer related to any of the core beliefs or all of them raise your hand I'm looking inside well just building on what Chris was talking about I think if we build an ethos of community engagement in one direction I think we would see a return to that investment where's that on the transparent and responsible governance we as a board have been talking about governance standards and trying to work them into how we function as a board and I feel that that teaches by example you'll see results from that it is something we are doing thank you I keep looking because we do discuss things to death we do that very well so I think if we have the core beliefs are discussing things to them we should really put these into action I think great we're able to discuss things a lot with each other for a note take a couple of those comments also fall into the if we do this we will see I figured you got it I thought you were going to tell them to delete mine we have more time because this is a little bit longer so take your time and so we're I think if we do this well we'll see when the when controversies come up in the school about what we should be teaching or taking out of or not teaching through the library anymore I'm thinking of like policy committee work how that that those kind of controversies will come up and we can look to our core beliefs to help us through those times and have a strong foundation for responding to those pickups or just outside maybe political concerns or something like that if that makes any sense any more as I see this happening now so the next piece and you can hear the questions they're similar and they're also segwaying to some more concrete information about so what do we need to do it is the action part so this next prompt is if we do this well we will see or a school that is doing this well looks like so some of you already jumped on that so I was going to go with the community engagement and relationships so when we're doing it well or a school that's doing it well I think we would see more involved community but that comes informed as well so they'll have the information they need and they come because they're hearing it in a way that's accessible to them combine the rigorous curriculum in Humanity and Justice I think if we're doing that well we will have a healthier student body both physically psychologically and more and see the interdependence of all of them and I think if we're doing this well then we'll see more cohesiveness and that will reflect in academic achievement building on that not only academic achievement but I do think if we're practicing that joy and we're practicing that our retention rate stays high our capacities increase and children are more centered students longer I think if we're doing a really good job with the well being pieces we'll see students who are both able to really take on more challenges on the curriculum side but also able to engage with people who aren't like them I mean I was just because we are in a very hard budget season I would say to bring some of these things into reality our fiscal leadership as a board is going to be really important it's going to be a real balance I think that if we if we do this if we follow what it says in the curriculum and instruction piece we ought to see two words that are not in here more positive outcomes there's nothing about outcomes and higher achievement we don't see achievement in here either which I also think is intentional right but those are those are the outcomes that we'll see and the goals and action steps may very well have those words in them I think the way you were saying to Joshua about that our fiscal challenges that are coming up if we're doing this with our community engagement and our community involvement then we're really partnering and understanding together what that fiscally means for all of us I don't see any Kari, go ahead Well, a sinus success in the for the first one curriculum would be closing of achievement gaps something we've talked about a lot accelerated growth and then in the relationships and governance I think it's a success when we see signs of the community trusting trusting the board trusting the staff and supporting decisions we make which is something we do see so I just want to point that out our budget passed by large we are supported and we'll test that with the results of our configuration study Thank you, Kari. Moving to number nine what are some things we need to do in order to turn these beliefs into reality if we do X we can accomplish this number nine number four I'm sorry we have the questions that we're going through it's because in their packet it's numbered there's questions on here like introduce yourselves to each other tell us we didn't need to do that promise they're not secret questions they're not the same questions on the last question well it's not the last one actually I shouldn't even have said a number I'm going from I printed the script from the strategic planning group which is what you have there sorry what are things we would need to do so this goes under community engagement and relationships and so we need to seek a balance with the physical safety which we've been increasing at our schools but the including and welcoming community into our schools I think that I don't know at the high school as much but I think at some of the elementary schools it's challenging right now so it's something we need to look at balancing and then I think I think this is still the same question it's something we can do is look into our community because like going through the thought exchange a lot of people going well we really need more community engagement as they were on a community engagement item and so it makes you question what do they see as community engagement if they're thinking this is not it and so it made me kind of wonder well what does our community see and maybe different populations see as community engagement I think that's really really well said we need to manage our own expectations about what successful community engagement looks like we have to be sure we're communicating now we're all in the work together and that we buy into at least parts of it so that we become a group working I'll just follow up on that and say a new U32 parent right after being elementary parent it's a different lifestyle there's a lot more than I thought like there's so much in infinite campus I can't even tell you it's a part time job being a parent of a U32 student probably anywhere else and then to ask me to come in and tell you what I think about like I elect people to do that job right so I didn't do that Daniel I think a big piece of it is celebrating what we're doing now and celebrating the milestones because it's all about continuous improvement and it's there's not going to be a destination there's not going to be a final celebration so we better celebrate on the way and I think also something about modeling a lot of these things we as a board are leaders and presumably administration also should model these and as much as there things you can model I think we need to be modeling them because of that buy-in I heard buy-in and buy-in seems really a really vital piece of this and if we're not buying in with our actions and our statements then I don't know how we expect others to I'm thinking about how communities are formed in personal relationships and we've learned this over and over again and gone through so much challenge and trauma with COVID and now that we can really be each other I'm thinking about how the students and the teachers experience community here in this building throughout the district and the parents often are kind of on the outskirts and we're sort of communicating through email and quick parentage conferences or whatever but and this might sound not even silly but could we potentially create an opportunity for parents to be more engaged in a casual way to the end of celebrating you know like and how how practical or how frequent could that be where we can engage with each other more yes Zach you were going to say something you being waiting ignore that under regular curriculum instruction I think talk about a variety of opportunities partly that needs real resources but it also meaning critical mass in order to be able to support that kind of variety Natasha to piggyback on that when I was thinking about the opportunities and experiences just being on some conversations I have with some students this summer that those opportunities aren't always communicated as effectively as they could be and also there's still a certain stigma on following certain paths that isn't the regular academic path and so I think that that's something we can work on to make sure that I mean I think like God I wish I had some of these opportunities in my own 2-3-2 because they weren't here and we were definitely tracked so I think that that's something that we can work on the other pieces we are definitely on the way but continuing to really strive to make this a space that does feel safe for everybody just because conversations that I'm a part of there's still there's still a lot of concerns about things that are happening within classrooms and how some students are being handled compared to others so I think just continuing to work on that and continuing to make gains because I think the work is happening it's just starting to have the students and parents feel the impact of that it's almost like that shampoo commercial from way back in the day you've engaged a number of people and continue to in these forums and with the whatever the group is the planning group and the steering committee so now if each one of them can also pull in another person so that then that web gets larger we don't want to I was like I was like I was like wow you keep putting on the shampoo and then they told you friends and then they told us hey champ well that is a brilliant segue I actually don't know that it is no it is actually it is related because the last question the last question is actually because we're on a meeting you don't have to tell us now publicly if you are interested I know you have board reps on this committee but if you are interested in sitting on one of the work groups to draft the goals and action steps email email me because that is an opportunity and since you all have a mechanism to do that and I'm not going to make you do it on screen email me I won't take time to okay thank you for participating in it if you have any extra thoughts after email us thank you thank you Jen thank you Kari Megan let's move right into our next item which is the ESBA first it's a point to members a point to members well not to we had said to members but we we just had a finance committee so I was hoping to appoint one new member to the finance committee and I because Eric is not with us anymore in his position I was thinking as just an idea appointing Zach to fill in Eric's term not term but position in the finance committee and then now in the configuration committee we needed one rep from Wooster one from Berlin and then we wanted to add an elementary principal a high school principal Susanne and Megan you know we have three high school principals somehow Steven just keeps showing off to everything he comes to our finance committee so I'm not trying to make it complicated so I'm looking for two two separate ones that makes sense I mean you are the chair so you can appoint so let's appoint to the configuration committee a member from Berlin and a member from Wooster and Steven an elementary principal to be named and Susanne and Megan can I have a motion to that the configuration which is part of this finance committee basically doesn't mean certainly the Wednesday yes so it'll be part of finance so it is the yes so this is the finance committee and there was a determination that if we're using the finance committee to do this work we want to make sure every town is represented so that's the need to add a Berlin and a Wooster again Zach that would be more of a replacement of an already exiting person and then that committee's normal meeting which they will still do on Tuesday of every month at 8.30 in the morning these are all Zoom meetings but the meeting that we added that it'll be specific to configuration is the third Wednesday right before a board meeting at 5 o'clock and yes the bulk of the configuration work would be at that meeting for sure although they did acknowledge that it is helpful to have the other meeting in case there's finance, you know, the day today not day today because we don't get involved in the day today the finance stuff that we need to do on the first Wednesday will stay the same our work plan will stay the same configuration will happen on Wednesday at 5 p.m. similar to equity a quality committee that happens on the first Wednesday this is going to happen on the third Wednesday 5 to 6 can you record the Tuesday morning ones? yes they are always there's minutes to record them that's good so are these meetings open to the public? they're warned they're warned meetings so could I have a motion to that? Lisa did you hear my long list? I don't think I got all the names who's the person I got that Zach is appointed to take Eric's position on the finance committee and then for the configuration I have Suzanne Gann Megan Roy an elementary principal to be named and then I didn't get the others Steven Steven yes yeah I did rock paper scissors and I lost I mean you won I won you have the honor of joining Diane Diane Diane Diane and from Wooster you won thank you thank you Mackayana and who's making the motion? Daniel I don't know Daniel made the motion and Chris second so I do listen to you I'm so happy I didn't have to repeat it any discussion all those in favor be signified by saying aye aye aye any oppose any abstain the motion carries okay that's great so now moving into the BSBA resolutions I was hoping for new board members we haven't been doing them for that long even our own meetings I don't know that any of you have been able to watch the webinar I know at least one of you attended the webinar I think I was just going to go quickly I was just going to go quickly each of them so we can give guidance to Ursula sorry guidance to our delegate so every year we have as a district we belong to the association the delegate votes on our behalf on these resolutions the resolutions like it said in the memo at the beginning in our beliefs it guides our testifying the legislature and it guides our work as an association right so I was wanting to just go quickly over each of them if I can get to the first one I'm not going to read who brought it up but be a resolve are there any questions on the proposal number one if the the grant for school districts in Vermont to pay a federal grant assessment to the Vermont state teachers retirement system for teachers funded but federal grants shall be eliminated if I keep reading then the recommendation of the board was to do not pass this resolution it was not clear what to ask what to ask was so there was no clarity but we get to read it again ourselves and decide for ourselves are there any questions who's the board making the recommendation no the board making the recommendation yes the board making the recommendation the missuske valley is who brought the resolution but it doesn't matter what you know it matters so the resolutions committee has a small report that represents all of the state and they go through the resolutions first and then give it to our entire board for the entire state and then they take a position so regardless of that we can take our own position at the meeting all of the resolutions are seen again and voted this particular resolution it was to I didn't include all of the wording in the areas it was just too specific and there was too too vague in what we were exactly asking so we contacted the chair and asked them to clarify and bring a resolution to the floor they would just have to have copies that I look for everybody and 60% approval of all of the members present so they can clarify it at the meeting I didn't want to spend a lot of time on this one unless there were specific questions or unless you guys understood it I don't feel qualified to say vote one way or the other on this or recommend that we vote one way are you guys comfortable with our rep points if they do not pass you you she can vote however you want yeah can vote however you want it to go Ursula will do Ursula I am here just like if my viewpoints could be different they have to be the boards like last year Kari had a comment on something and I took it with me so that it could at least be part of the record similar to how we have conversations on every issue we talk about yes so the reason I suspect this brought is here is that when we pay for teachers out of a grant we actually have to put in more money in that grant to cover the cost of retirement contribution so it actually costs more money to pay for staff out of a grant and I think this district is asking for that to go away which I think we would support it's Jen 13% it's higher than that now so it's high so think about that that's like a 20% surcharge not on it on the cost of because it's a contribution so the state doesn't have to put the contribution into the retirement system and it makes the grant money not go as far frankly so actually if you're interested it's over and above the fringe benefits which I assume are also included right like if we pay for a teacher out of the general fund benefits included it costs this amount of money if we instead want to use grant money which we do for important reasons it's that money plus the surcharge essentially did that apply to the ESSER money? yep all federal grants when did that start 5, 6, 7 years ago? it's been a while it increased in fair amounts in the past few years so you're saying this is we would want to pass I mean not to go against BDSB but to pass this is that a federal requirement? the state has decided it is a requirement and I should also this is floor already to share this they could pass a resolution and it's just informing the BSBA as to what they'll advocate for correct it's not a direct path from the point of view of the committee I'm just going back to my notes is that we have some current resolutions that already address some of the issues and this one was not specific enough so we have when we got back to that we were asking them to maybe request a study so that we can require federal can we so to reframe the way they were asking they were area so the grant assessments can be funded it's a statute rule it's a rule by Statutu so it was a complete Vermont Statute that was it I'm okay either their recommendation was to not pass suggest that they bring the new language to the meeting and they could review revise it it was going to be more clear so either way is fine go ahead if this requirement would go away would it result in a net decrease in the amount of money going into the retirement system or is it just a question of where the money comes from means the state would have to make the contribution instead of the federal grant would it be as much as the assessment is or would it be less than what the assessment is so it's not messing whether it's one to one or whether there's kind of a penalty using the grant money the way it is now it essentially is like we're getting a penalty it's not a real I mean it's a penalty because the money goes less far well but I mean is there I mean a penalty by saying that the state if they were funding it would pay less than the whatever percentage we are paying off of the grant I don't know I don't think so no it's really funding their annuity it's putting money into their annuity so the state's either widened for that annuity or their this is one of the pots they're pulling from is all of our federal grants across the state so the question that came up is that will then there be less grant amounts if they had so will the grant amounts be reduced no because they're federal federal so the money is from the feds and this is how the state is saying we want some of the money to help us make this you gotta give us that right off the top and that's what we do when we pay people yes so is the retirement benefit associated with associated with a teacher that's funded by a grant and it's the state contribution you know there's always a the state contribution in addition to the individuals contribution so this is like equivalent to the state I didn't mean to get us into the no no no no it doesn't affect the individual retirement it's just how the state is pulling from one pot of money pulling from one pot of money to help them fund the whole it is related to the the solvency of the yes and it does suck up part of the grant it does substantial and growing yep so we're still out of support of vote 10 so what till we want to vote yes on this one okay including any revised language that they bring that either clarifies or tightens things up yeah we're hoping that yeah sorry to no no no background information we felt that we needed more information I could share the whole document but okay so moving to the the next one did you guys had a chance from this came from our country union full school board so any questions on it before we one historical thing because this is my school system is that because I don't know if this is the case still here if Paris get paid, set them out and they get paid all year does that still happen here Suzanne school vacations and everything our guidance for our financial and HR has been told they can't do that so that's where why this is saying so like our Paris during the school breaks and any of those things because they don't have an hourly wage going on at that point they don't get paid during those so we struggle with losing staff and that goes that's what our history looks different and different is it even clear that those folks could be eligible for unemployment so what I'm wondering is if this would kick into whatever legally we've been told can't be done that it does provide where there be consistent funding the thing we hear is that it was trying to be very prescribed so if you read the second part provide individual school funds to support the arts enrichment programs for students in Vermont so it was the way that and again I reached out to the chair to just create some you know some clarity on that because to tell a disc to tell giving us advice to tell the district that that's where the money should be used is different in every so just think about the context that we're talking about the entire state right so that was very specific to and and it is they do they're supposed to be able to get unemployment so it was more of a district actually they are eligible no they are not they're not they're not they're expected to come back to the the job unless they're being let go no because they're contracted for a certain amount of days and they know that they'll be coming back so I don't think they get unemployment but you're doing the unemployment just for to provide for the enrichment programs I think there's two there's two proposals for the surplus money they want the surplus money to be used to help school districts to put in a cost to provide individual school funds to support the arts and enrichment programs so specifically arts so we pay into unemployment insurance in the event of a riff what if someone did yeah yeah okay okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah right right I have trouble with all surplus money because it's a lot it takes up any other option do you say different Chris basically took what I was going to say no no it's fine are we comfortable with did not pass okay so resolution to it this one was also this one is coming back and they have same revised language a little bit the BSBN is the support of the Vermont Sprint Association, Vermont Education so they want changes in the way that the agency is delivering ongoing services basically so we already we already have all of the resolutions label down there are all related to keeping sort of resolutions related to helping us when we have to testify related to the agency application so again this one was decided to do not pass without the benefit of another half an hour about what all of these resolutions down there are and what the details are uncomfortable with the do not pass so this one came from Norwich they are also bringing it to the floor hopefully the chair is redoing the language what we are hoping is that they are getting right now it is very self-explanatory in here but the way that they wrote it right now is pretty specific let me just review what so why do we think this shouldn't pass so what we were asking the recommendation so Garrett is the chair to revise the language to clarify it because the way that it was explained we invited them to come over and explain the resolution the way that they explained the resolution they were looking for a study first and then to re-examine the way the resolution is written is an action resolution so to examine the impact of visibility of raising the tax rate to the same rate homestead tax rate so they are changing the word examine to study I want them to do this yes we want them to do that so they are bringing it to us and they are clarifying they are changing it from the action to the study they are changing it to the study so they are turning it into more of an action an action they want to make an action but we needed questions resolved on the way that was written so let me see in the original we were divided because we wanted more of an action we have at least one of those towns in our district do we not I believe all five of our towns are listed our non-residential is lower than our homestead keep in mind that includes business lots and second homes so it's not just the legislature is talking about creating more tax categories also I'm going to study into doing that as well hopefully which also gets translated into action so I think we should pass it do we support it if it's an action resolution so if they come back with an action they haven't sent it to us but he is planning on bringing it he sent an entire document but we couldn't include it because it was passed a deadline so that's a comment on the floor and then this one is pretty simple the legislation described that the governor there isn't already a comprehensive plan I mean I'm not saying they're doing it I'm just saying what we did not have in our resolutions is that resolution that spoke so what we do is that we go through the book and see the resolutions and see and there was not another resolution that was as strong as this one so the recommendation was to because of all the work that we've been doing I'm just saying if there's already a comprehensive plan that's not being attended to to me the resolution would be to insist or you know what I mean something to that extent so I think this resolution gives us enough flexibility in order to be able to do that is it alluded by including congress congress one doesn't exclude the other lobbying congress lobbying congress doesn't exclude lobbying the general assembly separately because we have representatives that have been I've spoken about are we comfortable with the way and this one is pretty self-explanatory do we want to debate flavor we brought this one to the committee highlighted for resolution so those are the four that we're this is going to come up again this year and it's you wouldn't believe it okay number seven the general assembly said to bring investment policy and practice into compliance with the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in the Carson versions making without violating the compel support costs in article two chapter one of the Vermont constitution that basically says separation of church and state didn't the legislature do a lot of work on that this year they tried but they didn't pass anything it passed in the house but then it sat on the wall in the senate did no movement no movement at all so this year we're hoping that by making it clear that at least we're doing just separation of church and state so that we can stop discriminating by religious schools this is really important this year I agree I would also want to protect the historic academies that have served their communities for hundreds of years and not and not do what we can to not harm them yeah and this one is just talking but specifically to that well that's yes but any legislation is going to include non parochial non-religious schools as well ask that those schools not discriminate don't discriminate that's what this is supporting and that's all you're voting on right okay so yes I'm not going to get into that no I'm not going to get into that 8 the reason why this is about positive development of youth is because it is already passed that 8 and younger is already are you are you next resolution 8? yes so the reason why it's saying the positive development of youth is not like all children is because 8 and younger it's already passed is that accurate that's what I'm checking I'm going to have to rely on so you seem to take three lines from the bottom I'm just wondering why it's emphasizing youth and not all children that's a great question I don't know why they use the word youth were they using youth as a collective group 8 and younger already they're already but this is also about restraining seclusion which does go all the way down even though it's not super clear as you know and this one is really important because it's going to come up again this year I'm just wondering if it's too narrow with youth statements I think they're just being created with adjectives any learning environment receiving public comments seems pretty categorical I agree so we're okay? yes and 9 the general assembly should amend per month's open meeting lot to make fully remote meetings a permanent, it's a voluntary option it doesn't mean that we're going to move into that yeah okay and we are going to show the prize the open meeting was applied to the BSPA it applies to the BSPA so it's applied to the BSPA we're not going to get into that conversation okay alright almost got makeup but not today these ones are really the current resolutions needed a few amendments and we're hoping to just do those as as late they were I included instead of doing the cute packaging included what I used for the webinar so it's just really a few changes on language so if you had a chance to read them I'm hoping that you'd be okay with that and then continuing we went through the order continuing resolutions we have regular and continuing resolutions so regular resolutions are the ones that we review every year so continue resolutions are the resolutions that just stay in the books Joshua do you have a question yeah I just want to say thank you so much for your work on early childhood ed I read that and when I saw that oh this is a continuing resolution it hopefully comes off of there someday that we can actually have full day fully funded pre-kindergarten for everybody yeah and we update what you see this is the update where we are now this is going to always it might always just always stay in the books we will have forever it doesn't matter it shouldn't go away this is a continuing resolution because it's something we believe on it's kind of the foundation I have a question about IEL sure yeah so are they no longer doing that statewide charting account or is there a reason why there's no they took it away yeah doesn't mean they won't do it again yeah that's why that part went away yeah they're just not they're just not mandating that type of software we use that was the big controversy controversy yeah Suzanne does that make your life easier does that make your life easier for financial managers in school districts that you can choose your tools yes yes and I think financially it helps this school district choose a much better more sophisticated district than many yeah a lot of people choose type things they have lots of bells and whistles that half the time people don't even use and as long as the product is giving you what you need yeah that's just 30 seconds when I first started doing this I started seeing the you know all the financial stuff that we have to to do and I asked Lori right can we get different columns going to be arranged differently absolutely not right because it requires like adjusting the query in the back end that has to be done by the software company that may not be the case anymore but like more flexibility and more freedom for you yeah our software company is fantastic building reports anything I want they'll build they're really great and they're really well priced like they don't overcharge for anything something for the future like more comprehensible board orders yeah okay so we still have some work done yes does this look good mm-hmm okay so now we can appoint our annual voting delegate I think I have a motion to appoint we're still having some ready going to the conference move second so did you get that let's say Chris move and Jonas second to not yes to be our voting delegate so the Chris and who Jonas yeah all those in favor please signify by saying aye aye any opposed hearing none the motion carries and we also a killie is coming one of the days and come in both days and both days there's still time if somebody changes their mind okay and minutes to have a motion we're just moving to our consent agenda I move to approve the minutes of August 23rd second by any discussion or changes all those in favor please signify by saying aye aye all right so moving to the board orders yes yes honorary honorary so nice of you to say I feel that we missed her that okay the board orders came in a separate you know it's not so did I have a motion if somebody has it in front of them it's that we're still you want me to send the yeah we're still are you ready I move that we approve the board orders and the total for August 17th through September 20th in the total amount of one million eight hundred and sixty seven thousand five hundred and sixty eight dollars and fifty three cents seconded any discussion sorry can you repeat the amount sorry about that and Jonas did you second it again total amount is one million eight hundred sixty seven thousand five hundred sixty eight dollars and fifty three cents thank you yes yes all those in favor please signify by saying aye aye any opposed carry he needs to get out in that sunshine okay let's move personnel request page 58 oops oh either way whatever it was let me do this for so I can yeah do you want to get us started so there's two things in this memo and I would assume the board might want to talk about them separately one of them is it's actually two positions for one position a partial position at U32 and a partial position at Rumney the board needs to approve licensed positions as it says in the memo in two cases and we can answer questions individually but longstanding pair of vacancies that they have been vacant for a long time we have no qualified applicants we are trying to be creative with how to meet needs so we have a desire to in a cost neutral manner add a professional FTE one at U32 one at Rumney these are unrelated requests they just happen to happen at the same time but you have to approve them because they are positions that were not in the original budget but they are cost neutral so that is one action and then more than a year no so what we would what we've said to each building is if they decide that that is a better way to provide that service they can ask for those positions in the budget and then that would mean permanently reducing the other two so you are not making a decision for after this year it's just to help us get through this year if it works and they like it they might come back to you with that proposal but for now correct so could I have a motion for the first one I move that the board approve a budget amendment to add a budget neutral addition of up to 0.5 FTE for a U32 504 coordinator so moved by Johnna second Natasha Natasha okay you got that Lisa the Katelyn okay well those in favor please signify by saying aye aye sorry Micaela and I thought it was Natasha so did I we're so in that direction okay do you want to make the next motion Micaela Micaela is embusting I'm laughing so I will move the board approve a budget amendment to add a budget neutral addition of up to 0.5 FTE special educator at Brumney thank you Jonas and I hear that Micaela is second okay you got that Lisa sorry we're making it more complicated for you I'm assuming you got that all those in favor please signify by saying aye aye can you close seconder Micaela great question okay okay so the next one and again in the interest of not just repeating what's written in the memo the context that I would give you is you have heard in various different ways we have a very small central office of very hard working skilled people who are working a lot more than they should be working and have been for quite a while spent the better part of last year analyzing people's workloads we had significant amounts of overtime being done reshuffling jobs moving with responsibilities around and knew that we may be coming to you in the budget season with a request for an additional position have landed on the fact that that really needs to be in the realm of human resources what we have since discovered is that we don't think we can wait for a higher year we really need this position now there's a lot in there kind of about the why but our biggest concern right now is that we are going to lose good people because they are working so much and so hard and there is a body of work quite frankly that we're just not getting to we are getting people paid we're getting time sheets done we're getting people onboarded to the best we can we're doing all those really important things policies, procedures things that would make our hiring processes better and more expansive that we're just not able to do and so what we are hoping the board would do is this is not a budget neutral position this is a position that can be comfortably funded with our fund balance and it requires your approval so Suzanne's here other central office folks are here questions can I have a motion and then we'll discuss just because of the time I move to approve a budget amendment to add a full-time director of human resources position thank you Jonas second okay discussion and questions ballpark amount 150 probably full benefits so what are the directors roles here director sounds more supervisory than coordinator boots on the ground coordinating things well so first all of our boots are on the ground be remiss if I did not say that no no sorry it's late in the evening no but to your point this is a higher level position because the things that we are most not doing right now are working closely with the leadership team to develop policies and procedures thinking really carefully about labor management and how we interact with teachers and how we build better relationships and how can we spend more time on that how can we you know we've got really important goals about making sure our the people who work here look like the students here we can't get to that higher level work so yes it is a higher level work at the moment I don't know that this person would directly support or directly supervise current people that may evolve to that over time but it's less about supervisory so much as it is this person needs to be part of the leadership team they need to sort of be looking at a slightly higher skill set that's why it's a director proposal okay so does it really work for people who are doing it now absolutely because for one thing Suzanne is doing quite a bit of this work sort of writing policy or not policy but we're all trying to write HR procedures and we're not HR specialists I mean we're doing the best we can but yes and this person would report to Suzanne even though it says received direction from and evaluated by the superintendent yes because we went back and forth on that part of it so and thanks for pointing out we haven't updated it this is the current draft of the job description and but we wanted to give you a sense of what it was thank you for catching that so it should say business administrator any other Kari so I'm in general very supportive of this I've always wondered why we didn't have this position and think that we are understaffed in this part of our operation my concern is that it's a significant ask mid-year so can you just speak to why this didn't come up in last year's budgeting process that's a great question and for a couple of reasons one at budget season last year we weren't sure yet if human resources was where the resource was needed right we were taking the operations position peeling off a lot of job duties we were in the process of bringing on new people in payroll and benefits and trying to say when we as we bring new people on to existing positions and we reshuffle does that right size it does that cut down on the overtime so we just didn't know frankly what we needed at that point and we were still working with an HR consultant so we were someone who they're actually affiliated with the firm that audits us they have an HR consultant she worked with us to help develop a lot of this and we did that analysis and we were just too early in the process to know last year it's a fair question though so one of my difficulties supporting this request is that we're going to go into a budget season we're going to be looking to cut teaching staff I suspect and I just can't square that with voting for this so just to lay my cards on the table and I know that it's all part of a team in terms of providing services to students I know it's hypothetical now but I really think it's a serious hypothetical that is coming down the pike given what we heard last year about having a terrible budget year coming up I just can't support a expenditure like this now let's take some turns I just want to say that you've been in the board for as long as I have been on the board and we've been talking about this position for a while as missing as missing on this is I just want to point that out and then I'll share some more but Diane and well it was going to be a great respond to that first of all just because if we've been talking about it for a while and we're doing it now in the midst of a tough budget year that's coming up we could have done it and had better discussion about it in last year because the need was known then it didn't come up last year it's come before because we have a short staff I guess I'm going to let Joshua talk and then I'll answer I think Diane was first so what I heard you say was there's been a huge amount of overtime so I think to me it would be helpful to see those costs comparisons so that because if we're already expending that then of course it makes sense to do it more efficiently and effectively the other part I do have the same concerns that Chris said in terms of as we're waiting all decisions because to me this one is once we agree to it it is locked in isn't the right place but that you know because we've identified that so what I'm wondering about in terms of future meetings around the budget is having a strong understanding of what is the central office portion of the budget which in forgive me it may have been there I just can't remember but you know what's that part of it what you know what are all the nuances of the budget just so that I better understand what we're looking at but again to the first part of it is it would be helpful to me to see how the overtime that's needed and I think this is the current focus that's happening across the state where we're realizing what we're missing out on by not having a person in this role because we just didn't open for a country as well I'll just respond real quick before Trashua just Chris this is the board's decision we are asking you the thing that I would tell you is that it is in our opinion we are very well aware of the budget season we're very well aware of the timing of this ask we wouldn't we don't take that lightly we wouldn't be coming to you if we didn't feel desperate I'm using that word and the desperation for me is if we lose people in central office if we lost anyone quite frankly then paychecks won't come that's important to the people that sit in front of kids so I don't mean to be dramatic about it I'm just sort of all of you have to weigh all of it and you have to make your decision but I'm just reinforcing that we're here asking you and we are totally aware of the budget season we're headed into the cliff all those things it's really hard I guess yeah I mean I would I support this I've been in organizations and businesses and I've had family and organizations organizations and businesses that have gone through significant reconfiguration and staff burnout is real and those people leave you know and I don't think that I'd want to risk losing anybody in the central office and having to find and bring those people up to speed I mean I don't think we could find the kind of qualified people we have without a lot of heartache and without a lot of trouble which could cost us even more money than this in the end I don't know but I do it would worry me if someone were to quit knowing how hard these people work so yeah I would support this I guess I will add to that that for you go ahead you go first just to speak to Chris's concern what is our ratio of administrative to classroom staff salaries salary number I wouldn't be able to tell you that the budget is administrative in front office versus classroom are we normal are we paying more are we paying less for administrative costs I'm not 100% sure I understand the question because there's a different variety of administrative costs well big buckets here front office and administrative right in my support staff I don't think we'd be able to pull the numbers for you right now what I can tell you is central office size is small that's fine numbers associated with it yeah I would also direct you to some information about general human resources support as it relates to per employee we are way understaffed and we're not even asking you to get us to the average of what societal human resources that you have to support the number of contracted people in this organization not even counting your subs which subs are a whole other beast here that we do support in a different way is it correct that we've been using more subs in the last few years than previously yes well trying to trying to yeah yeah I'm just trying to address them maybe at Christmas yeah I was going to say I support it too Daniel's had his hand up for a while I see this and I understand your concern that we're looking at a tough budget and there will be considerations of potentially instructional staff I'm just going to say that potentially but right now the information we have is that the central office is just barely doing the bare basics and that's overtime and staff burning out that's not a healthy way to run and so like Joshua said if we start losing people because they've burnt out they take institutional knowledge with them you can't replace that and so then the whole system comes crashing down right like how are these teachers going to get paid how do we get subs in without that administrative support they can't run the schools ultimately yeah just a couple points I mean I think I think it's absurd that any institution that has 350 employees doesn't have an HR director I think we should do that I think we also took Chris's concerns I share those concerns and I think we need to do our due diligence so I think amassing the facts sort of sort of to Jonas's point I think that's really important I think we should try to quantify the overtime like Diane said I think we should try to compare our central office staff to other central offices in terms of a ratio to the district I think we need to highlight the fact that an administrative system position was eliminated and that work didn't go away to your point I think the need was Megan said the need was not known last year there was a reshuffling happening this was the soonest that this position rose as the clear need I think I guess I agree in part to that point just because it feels like a little sudden to me that we as a board are learning about the sort of the capacity emergency in central office and I would just encourage earlier and less urgent notifications if these things are needed in the future but I am certainly inclined to support the position Chris you had something to say the drama of saying checks won't go out to teachers or others that's not true that was said several times that was said several times with the loss of one more position she said and I understand that there's a real need but that's not a rationale to make and again we are going to be looking at not potentially cutting teaching staff but cutting teaching staff from what we heard and what we assume in terms of our budget so I'm going that versus administrative staff and I am making that balance I am being blunt about that because teaching staff is direct services to students and human resources certainly indirect service to students but not direct service so that's where I am putting my eggs and have to ask it Chris I'm not trying to diminish your worry because I think we all share the worry that anytime we're asked money for more money in the middle of the budget it's hard for us knowing where we're headed but I also want to say that I do remember having these conversations through being able to stay on top of contracts being able to stay on top of hiring we talked about this I want to say two superintendents ago we were talking about it and we just couldn't fit it we couldn't get around having a building coordinator and not building coordinator Chris director of facilities and we prioritized that because we needed the capital plan to stay on an HR position because we don't understand the system quite well and then as you know this is the second year that we have Megan with us we're able to really assess the system in a different way and if we're going to address the needs of our kids we are going to be able to retain the staff that we have it was part of the memo diversified the educator workforce it's a great big undertaking that really goes with the values that we have I think this all helps make us more cohesive and we just had that discussion about the core values this aligns with our core values and allows us to move our district as a whole and Ursula had another comment I wanted to address the comment Daniel made about just getting it now and having not talked about it because I remember Megan coming and talking at meetings when we talk staffing there's been discussions about what central office is doing and how they're trying to shuffle positions and figure out how to make the workload work for them and she's talked about it multiple times last year so I think I don't know whether we need to do a better job in reviewing past conversations in our memos but it has been discussed so it's something that we as a board need to start working on that collective knowledge of things that we've had conversations about in the past that may not have had action on them at that time and so they didn't seem as pertinent and then all of a sudden it shows up with a dollar amount and it's like well why haven't we talked about it before so just quickly we have lost two people last year two people left to seasoned people who had been here three three so we are feeling that ripple but the one thing well I don't know how many things it's leaked so one concern I do have a concern about that too and maybe what the urgency is should this be like a policy where you bring this information to us and to understand our questions that we came up with was what is a comparison of the real value of what's occurring and so that's one way to address that because what I heard you saying Daniel is that while yes we may have had the conversation boom all of a sudden now the need is right there and I absolutely agree that you all were teasing that out you didn't know and as the world shuffled but then I do also want to be clear that while yes I will vote for this tonight I will also have it very clear in my mind as we're taking a look at the full budget so I think it's that we have to be clear and understand that each one of us in the way we apply those core principles and the way we apply our pillars may look and feel differently from each one of us because we're each individuals and so part of my consideration in those pillars is understanding the decision I make tonight what that ripple is going to be and as we look at the full budget and then that may impact what questions I ask and how I work Suzanne we have a clarifying question for you if we lost three positions why isn't this neutral budget neutral because we filled those yeah we lost our payroll specialist she left we filled that position and then the operations manager left so we filled all of those for about four months I did payroll on top of the job that I had so no we didn't miss page x you're wrong we're not down three positions we're not down three positions we're down the institutional members that's right I was like we have a new person to payroll and so that is that's an impact you know you have somebody very experienced 20 plus years experience in that position that it was like second knowledge for everyone to do it so that is a big impact on us so I want to piggyback a little a couple things that Suzanne shared one is just when those people came on board we right-sized their jobs this is part of how we keep the new people here so that's part of why when you right-size it there's something over here that's now not being done and the second piece I just because the comment was directed to me I was not being dramatic when I said it will impact page x I did not say that with the intention of being hyperbolic or dramatic I said it because it's a real concern of mine and Suzanne is correct the reason we got page x out is because Suzanne supported a new person and it's really fine Suzanne has a big job already and so I just I was I pride myself on not saying things just to be dramatic it's a real concern I have still your decision Kai well they really good deliberation I feel like I've learned a lot from it and I want to say that I'm inclined to vote for this tonight as well part of what is concerning about this that relates to Daniel and others points is that it feels like a significant strategic decision and we're making that decision in advance of not only this budget but the strategic plan and the configuration study and so that's that's why I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable with it and but like the facilities director it's also it seems like a wise investment it seems like something that's necessary so I guess I guess what I want to ask is are there any other significant shifts to the org chart that are being discussed or might be coming down the pike in the coming years if the answer is no that's fine but I'm just wondering about the context like where this position fits in in our org chart if that makes any sense yeah it's a great question I would answer it this way our intention was to bring it to you as part of the budget which then I think would make it make more sense in terms of why it's strategic why it's connected to our mission the reason we're bringing it to you now is more because we don't again now I'm repeating myself is because it doesn't feel like we can wait so I that's almost a way of saying this is what we'd be bringing to you and no there really isn't anything else big and strategic like that at Central Office at least that would be coming down the pike because this would have been it it just would have been it in a different time frame I don't know if that's helpful so it's going to be nine of blood oops I'm again I'll just say briefly that I share Chris's concerns and it seems like my preference would be to have this discussion as part of the budget discussion because we're going to be weighing positions I worry that you know teachers and support staff are burned out also and when I worry that if they see us supporting a brand new administrative position and then a few months later talking about cutting teaching positions it's not going to feel good and it wouldn't feel great to me so I my preference would be to have this conversation all as part of the budget although I do hear the urgency I just have one comment and I don't mean to feel like back and forth on it but Megan and I both sort of agree with that strategy that it's best to bring things like this at budget time we really do when I'm meeting with staff weekly every single meeting I have I'm worried I'm going to lose them that's reality that's why it's coming now I have at least two people that every week that's the conversation what can I do to make this better okay I'll take this from your plate I'll take this from your plate so that's what's happening right now I have two people that could leave anytime now that's why we've made this decision to bring it to you now totally agree with you normally I would do it in a budget season absolutely I'm looking for a motion I think there we have a motion call the question okay I don't see any you say you have that so all those in favor of approving a director of human resources position please team 5 by saying hi hi any opposed reluctantly no any other so can you raise your hand just to make sure reluctantly no so three no's and one two ten so the motion carries thank you everybody and I know it's hard but thank you everybody let's move into our new teachers I move to approve the extended leave of absence request for representative Kate McCann U-52 math teacher who is requesting a .25 leave of absence that's a good question okay so Jonas, Daniel okay yes question stay out stay out thank you okay all those in favor of facing a 5 by saying hi any opposed hearing none motion carries I move to approve long-term substitute for the 2023-2024 school year Robin Gannon Marie Heady and Mary Lee Richardson second that was you Natasha and where are they Robin's at East Montpelier Marie is here and Mary Lou and Mary Lou Richardson Bremen all those in favor of facing a 5 by saying hi alright alright and that's it and then I'll put update on vacancies now too it was part of the report yeah okay Michael is it for the full school year I'm sorry this long-term subs is it for portions of the school year long-term for the school year for the 2023 year isn't she the return yeah but long-term subs just means it's more than it doesn't necessarily mean it goes through the end of the year but it does mean more than I don't know exactly the return date for some of those okay so future agenda items I think it's late I mean the work plan so next October we will be in Romney Caroline is coordinating a local presentation there will be some board learning there's not a lot of action items business there may be more things that would be in Romney okay motion to adjourn nope we also have not reflected John I would like to retract sorry healthy and vigorous debate that's what it's all about Lisa could you please send me the link to the minutes oh yeah but just so I can do it later I now move that the board enter into executive session for the purpose of discussion negotiation strategy to include Beggin Roy and Suzanne Gann thank you John thank you Chris see you guys bye