 Recording in progress. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Nick Sechsauer. I'm a project manager at X, the Moonshot Factory. You might know us as Google X. We're Google's future technology division responsible for things like self-driving cars, stratospheric internet balloons, and many other efforts I'm not allowed to talk to you about, which is fine because that's not what you're here for today. I've been fortunate enough to be following the work of Igor Goliak and Sarah Stackhouse at the Arlington Players Theater and their 0G virtual theater lab for the past two plus years. It's been amazing to see the evolution of their work and their mastery at integrating technology and virtual elements into a traditionally in-person medium. What started with a desktop and some duct tape in Igor's living room has transformed into entirely original experiences for patrons of the arts no matter where they are in the world. The current production we're discussing is The Orchard, an auction, which features Jessica Hecht and the incomparable Mikhail Baryshnikov. It also features a giant cuckoo robot arm, holograms, projections, a robot dog, live streaming with real-time effects broadcast to audiences around the world, including the added feature of being fully interactive online. This shows a hybrid, meaning it's performed live for an in-person audience and at the same time there's a different virtual production streaming to people on their computers where they can watch and interact. This is quite an artistic and technological feat and it took a tremendous and very innovative team to make this project happen and we're fortunate enough to have some of that team here with us today. And I'm going to let them introduce themselves to you in a moment, but first we're going to show you a trailer for the show for those of you who are unable to see the production just yet. So let's roll that. So let's have our incredible panel introduce themselves. Tell us a little bit about who you are and the role you played on the production. We'll start with you, Igor. Hi, I'm Igor Goliuk. I'm the artistic director of Arlington Players Theater and Zero Gravity Virtual Theater Laboratory and the director of The Orchard, the in-person and the hybrid virtual an auction. And Aiman, go ahead. Hi, actually, I firstly had an apology. I had a bit of a calendar mixed up, so I'm on the road in LA actually. So apologies for the shaky iPhone video. My name's Aiman. I'm from Bird Dog in Australia. We're a company that makes cameras. We're really excited to partner with Igor and the whole team to provide the cameras for the live streaming of this production. I'm also here with Dan, who's our CEO. Who's driving. Maybe he won't speak too much, but he's in the car as well. Thank you. Adam. I'm Adam Baikowsky, executive technical director at an innovation studio called Dot Dot Dash. I was working with Igor very early on to bring the different layers of technology to life and figure out how we're going to create a cohesive production out of it. It's been a joy to work on together. I'll pass it over to Tom. I'm Tom Abernathy. I am the interactive narrative designer as I was for Checkoff OS as well, which basically means that I collaborate with Igor and others on what the streaming experience is going to be and then I write the text primarily for those of you who are in the chat. And during performances I am actually playing in Toshio live during in the chat, although occasionally it's not me it's Zach doing it stuff but text support, you know, Eric. Hi, I'm Eric Dunlap. I'm the stream designer and visual effects. I've been working nonstop for the past two weeks. So, do I look bleary eyed because I am. Well, thank you for your work. And last but not least, Magda. Hello, everyone. I am a principal researcher at MetaLab at Harvard, and Igor and I am a guest theoretician. I have been in good friends and colleagues and collaborators for a couple years now discussing this type of performances initially in theory, and, you know, how would they actually implement being implemented and what needs to happen with the script and with the experience of stage, if you're trying to make it into hybrid because, you know, the entire dramatic structure changes and there are many different things that happen in when you're trying to combine all those different media. So, so I guess that's my role. Yeah, Igor, it's the theoretician. Thank you all for being here today. You know, we'll jump we'll jump into some questions and get some conversations started. I'm coming at you first Igor. So, how did you get started working with technologies and virtual theater. It was more of a necessity when the pandemic hit. We have a space out just outside of Boston, and we just everyone was down down and we have shows that we canceled in our space. And I just couldn't believe that theater would end for me and just to, you know, hang on at home. I was still teaching over zoom. And then I, you know, I started getting bills for the studio and decided to experiment with my wife Daria and see if I could create something in home. Using our white walls as a canvas and then interpreting that through the through the characters, kind of psyche and through how she interprets the world and figured out the way how to hack a couple of things together. And it seemed to work. I would say so. So, this show particularly features a lot of bird dog PTZ cameras, why these particular cameras. Well, one of the biggest reasons why these PTZ cameras, we have a very complicated structure of what is being seen in person, and what is being seen on the on the virtual, we have 12 cameras. And the just cabling, if it wasn't for NDI, which is what a bird dog is known for, not just video quality but, but NDI feeds full quality in the NDI feeds and I'm sure Amy can speak better to this but the fact that we have we send signal back and forth using NDI, which is the type of signal without routing it using the old style as di tables. Let's us allows us to move into the theater much quicker run one cable to a camera and to a to a computer and have all those feeds available for all the three camera three computers that we have here I just I'm sitting in the pit and this is Leana she's our brilliant technical designer and implementer of the stream. And this wouldn't be possible on the budget that we have. And with the time that we have using old ways of moving into a theater with 12 cameras. So that's why bird dog PTZ. So, you know, we can go to the source to we have a man here with us, President and founder of bird dog. So, amen your cameras are used all over the world for broadcasting. What was so unusual about this project and the use of the cameras I know Igor alluded to that but be great to get your perspective like why is bird dog so interested in this particular project. So, it's really exciting for us. We're a startup Australian company. We've been sort of the leading developers I guess of this NDI format that Igor spoke about which is a way of sending video and audio across computer networks rather than using video infrastructure, you know, the old way. And yes, this project is really exciting for us because it gave us a chance to really show off not just the NDI component of what we do but also the video quality. You know, Cedar Productions have lots of changing light they have lots of, you know, darkness as well because you know when the light changes so really gave us a chance to show off the quality of the sensors that we use because you use all Sony broadcast image sensors. It gives me a really good chance to show off the picture quality of the cameras so super excited to work on this project with Igor and the team. Thank you. I'm going to go over to Magda. So your researcher about trans media and virtual theater. I'd love you to provide a little bit of context when when you see the work that Igor is doing with projects like the orchard. Do you see them fitting into the larger world of emerging genres of virtual theater. What's happening here in Igor's work with these technologies that we should be paying attention to. Yeah, you know this is a very great question because there is a kind of my camera for Christmas syndrome with, you know, using new technology oftentimes. There is a sort of disconnect between form and content. What do we see actually with Igor's work which is very interesting is that there is a very clear connection and comment or kind of a meta commentary of a form on content. So just to give you like brief overview like you know what is the play about, and what is the form commenting about the plays about yeah. So it's also kind of a meta commentary on theater and on in sort of a impossibility of staging this old text which you know it's a kind of illusion to say that we can recreate this world yeah. And so we have this is a play about time and about passing of time and about the kind of a cruelty of passing of time. And we see this very interesting montage between the text and the technology that is being used and it's very present on stage. It's both a kind of uncanny experience, and it's also a sort of a form of a mental montage, which we also see in Kubrick in Odyssey yeah from the ancient bond to the spaceship. So here we have from Chekhov, and this world of you know of the empire of kind of a nostalgia behind for the empire, and this technology, 100 years into the future, and this compression of time creates this kind of effect of commenting on what the play is about. So we have this sort of transmedial, multi platform use of technology, which is also a meta commentary on the way that the technology can be used, and that can comment on the content of the drama itself. So this is quite unusual because it does not happen very often that we would have this no combination of form and content commenting each other in theater. Oftentimes those things are very separate. So I think this is what's the unique in Igor's work is that those two things work in tandem and they comment on each other. Thank you. I have about 70 follow up questions but I have other people here today. So I will, I'll save those for later. So I understand that you just returned to Germany from Boston where you and Igor, along with the streaming TV, Leona keys worked long into the nights to create the effects and camera presets to for this unique virtual experience. I also want to mention that the projections in the show you saw shown on the Holocaust on the stage were designed by Alex Bosco Coke, and that you and Igor worked with many of his images while creating effects for the virtual production. So we're going to show some of those images right now at what you see but while you're watching those. Can you tell us a bit Eric about what you and Igor we're trying to accomplish here with the cameras and the effects and how you went about doing it. Well, well, first of all, I think from the streaming side we're trying to create a unique other experience. I mean, there is the experience of the theater when you're sitting in the room and it's live and when you're sitting there on stage you can choose whether to watch the person speaking or whether to watch what's happening in the background you can really like move your eye around. If something's just streamed it's it's hard to do that if you only have like one camera from the front or from the side. So with all these different cameras and all these different things we're really trying to bring in different looks different points of view in different ways to really give you an experience that not only that you're in the theater but a lot of times that you're on stage with the actors and then with some of the effects we tried to overlay sort of a way to create more emotion or to create some mood or to try to enhance sort of what the actors are doing when it worked that to sort of bring about to use sort of the effects to to provide a theme for loss or memory. So it's really about trying to craft an alternate version of the life. And you're definitely not exaggerating about how much we worked. No exaggeration there. I have zero doubt that. Can you tell us a little bit about like how you went about it. Well, a lot of the stuff. I mean, I came to it they'd already done the previous production so as Alex work was already had already been created and the piece had already been created so one of the reasons why I'm pulling out Alex is a materialist to try and reinforce to show as it was. Then it was a matter of because I'm working partially remotely and then also there it's a matter of working in a way to how to like visualize how it all fits together. Alex and I both use a piece of software called Isadora which is used in a lot of theaters, and it is a lot of live effects that's been something I've been dealing with for quite some time. I mean, I can make live effects really happen so everything then routed through with the bird dog and the NDI stuff. That's really awesome. I mean there's no way I could have on this budget and with this thing. There's no way I could have done this otherwise with NDI so my hats off to the bird dog people and to NDI and if anybody from Isadora team is listening. Good job. We will talk about the NDI actor. I don't know what work to do, but it's coming. I think I'm getting off track. But really it's about I think that when Igor approached me it was kind of out of the blue and when he came to me with what he was trying to do it was really fascinating because I've been working in this kind of vein for a long time. And to like change the way you see theater, not just live but to bring it to people online through streaming so that was a big, a big pull for me and and why I was really involved. Thank you. And then the work shows. It looked beautiful. It's truly amazing. I was fortunate enough to see the last night's performance, but you brought it up an interesting point. Igor, why a separate production and experience for a virtual audience instead of just streaming the play? What are you going after? What are you trying to create or learn or invent or break? Yeah. So the reason each art kind of tool has its own kind of rules of what works and what doesn't. So if I was creating this as a movie, I would do it completely different than what you saw on stage. Now we have to interpret what we came up with for the in-person and make a completely different art piece because it's not going to work as a stream in the virtual. So what I'm experimenting is how do you hold attention of the audience? How do you have emotional impact on the audience using the stream? How do you enhance it? How do you have the audience participate in the feed? Participate in what's happening, not just watching it as a movie where it's only kind of one way because I could never, with a live stream, it could never be as good as a movie. So what are the advantages of doing this live? The fact that the audience can interact with the characters. There's a confessional where one of the characters speaks to the audience. The audience has a role to play in this version of the online. So it's quite different and that's where the experimentation is, is how do you grab their attention and have a meaningful experience for them translated from what happens on stage to a two-dimensional screen. It works. It works real well. Keep that up. Thank you. So let's talk about the robot in the room. Adam, one of the stars of the show is Ronan, a giant robot on stage, otherwise known as Antosha to the virtual audience. How did you get involved in the project and what did you take, what did it take to get the robotics to happen as part of this project artistically and technically? Yeah. You know, Ronan is a happy member of the dot-dot-dash family. We actually have a number of different bots of different shapes and sizes and functions, and robotics in entertainment and in sort of media, trans-media or immersive environments is really one of the things that we're known for and that we do quite a lot of. This production was awesome. I mean, basically, I had been connected with Igor at the very beginning of the first run of the show through some mutual friends, and immediately, once that conversation kicked off, and we had a few discussions around, you know, what Igor was trying to accomplish and like how we could possibly do it. The second that the robots got brought up, it seemed like an immediate like marriage of, this could be something really exciting, this could be a way to push. And we had talked about a ton of different technologies. I mean, one of, that's sort of my background is finding fringe technology for use cases outside of their traditional application. And so, you know, when we got the opportunity, you know, I've actually never worked in theater before. This is my first theater production. I've done all sorts of things like touring shows and museums, you know, you name it, I probably touched it, but theater is so different. And especially through the conversations with Igor, like thinking about, okay, like how do these robots come to life. One of the things that's so impressive about them is that they are extremely mechanical and they're very repeatable and what they do, you know, down to like millimeter accuracy, we can place a tool head for manufacturing. But, you know, the challenge in all of these instances is like how do you bring life to these things. How do you, how do you add a layer of emotion and draw connection. And we worked with one of our programmers, Tom, who is fantastic and amazing, and through the process really brought to life. You know, how, how these robots interacted with the set how they interacted with the different characters, the other actors, and really became like a core part of the narrative. And, you know, that was developed. Like technically we we use simulation software to build a lot of those different moves so same as you would do for a 3D animation. So, you know, the type of workflow is how it starts. But then, you know, we built a prototype within our studio, where we actually had Ronan set up. We had built up, you know, some white walls and really we're like okay looking at the motion like how does this feel how does it look sending videos back and forth from our studio in Portland to Igor and Boston. And then ultimately got into the theater and started rehearsing with actors and seeing how they responded to the robot getting them comfortable with it right because it's this giant daunting piece of equipment on stage. It's something that you know is moving and truthfully is very dangerous and scary. So, you know, building the systems and having things in place in order to make it less scary and more safe. And to see how the interaction between man and machine comes to life was was really powerful it was it was super awesome to watch. I mean, that's the sort of creative side of it and then I mean technically Igor and Sarah and the rest of the crew can tell you getting getting that robot into the version of cover center which was the first place that the theater. was performed was no easy task. It required sort of these very tough moves to even get the robot into the elevator and under the weight capacity, and onto the stage. A bunch of engineering went into into just getting it into the building. And once it was in the building on the magic it start to happen. So it was it was a great process and it was it was a pleasure to be a part of. Thank you. I work with a lot of roboticists and and I know that the accuracy and tech and the work that goes behind bringing bringing that an object like that into motion and to life. Which is why we'll go to Tom, who who who who gave a little more life to that movement. So, Tom, you're a narrative game writer for video games and Igor invited you to write the script for the virtual in the voice of the robot. Or as you call him and Tosha, why the name and Tosha and what special role or voice did you help to create for him in the virtual version of the orchard. Well, why and Tosha, you have to ask Igor, but I think it's because it's a diminutive of Anton as an Anton check off. Am I right Igor and saying that it is diminutive he actually use the pseudonym before he started publishing. He used the pseudonym, and his pseudonym was and Tosha check on that. So that's where that's where and Tosha comes from. Um, but but actually the the we didn't have the idea of making. Yeah, I had the I I come to things through character I come through my work as a dramatist in games and in theater and film whatever through character. And so my instinct is always, we need a character to be interacting directly with the audience. In previous shows like the check of OS we had human characters played by Daria, your wife, for example, as well as AI characters in this show. There's enough human characters doing stuff on stage, and it had no need to augment that. But it felt right to create a character that could that could interact directly with the audience during the show so that they really did have a sense that it's not just the actors who are live on stage. But that this entire experience the streaming experience is a thing that is reaching out and connecting with them and speaking to them and reacting to them. And from from that insight to going, oh, look, there's a giant 8000 pound robot arm on the stage that that otherwise is a little bit. For some people is going to is going to they're going to wonder exactly what that's about why don't you know why don't we use that as sort of the the the place to to to grow a character from so that was sort of the thought process behind that. Thank you. It worked. I got quite a few quick quite a few laughs. I felt closer to the robot. I definitely talked in chat to the robot quite a few times during the performance last last night. The chat last night. It was it was it was a good one. Igor talking about interactivity in the virtual as we talk about the chat. We've been experimenting with a lot with audience interactivity and opportunities through these various productions. What have your experiments been what are you trying to do here and what have you learned about audience behavior online. Yeah, I mean what's interesting to me is always what is possible to do with within the constraints of of of the environment where the play is being performed so in this case, the environment is the virtual right. And so there are advantages and disadvantages of the virtual that the disadvantages are that you can't feel you can't. It's very difficult to be a part of a group, witnessing something or going through something at the same time. The actors and the audience in the same place with with the virtual. There are some advantages where just like you described there's there could be a couple of different two or three different narratives that are happening simultaneously. There is the there's what's happening on stage and then there is that stage being interpreted through the chat. And that's a separate narrative, right that's overlaid on, and that doesn't happen in the in person performance. That's an advantage of the virtual that we don't have in person there's a there's an auction that's happening that's also real time. It's also a gives the role a role to an audience member, but also a way for them to engage and and go through a journey, different from the in person audience but their own journey. And then when the audience members see themselves and each other on on the Holocaust for on the in person show. And also see themselves in the background or characters talking to them and they they're in the background. I think it adds it's a way to for people to come together in one space right in one virtual space. So that those those are my experimentations is it's mainly what are the tools that are available to use for the virtual world. What works what doesn't work and it's an it's its own genre that has to be explored. And I think there's a there's a big future in front of it. So what you're doing in practice. I think that's what Igor and experimenting in I think is is is is part of a bigger part of a bigger picture of evolution. So I want to ask Magda, this is what you study it at Harvard. To my understanding how has this interactivity online involved evolved over time and how does it fit with this show. Yeah. Well, when we think about interactivity. Let's start with the concept of co presence and how in different genres co presence is created. So, you know, in theater is the type of co presence when you have to be there with other people at the same time and in the same place to build a kind of a share interactive experience between you know the actors the playwright and the audience yeah there is this sort of exchange happening in real time and in real space. So, the same kind of co presence is in some way you know virtually both in movies and in literature, where you are by yourself interacting with a work of art to communicate something to you and to other people. And so the, the co presence, the interactivity that is happening between you and the creators is more of an interior mental type of interactivity. In video games, we typically have a little bit combination of both. We have a kind of interior, you know you alone in your apartment interacting with other players in the same time at the same time in different space in different place in different space, but there is a sort of mental connection that you all might have and you interact with each other and with the creators of the game. Now, what is sort of tricky about transmedia works is that in some ways, create a new form of interactivity, which would combine all of those different types of of co presence. And so we are simultaneously at the same time. But maybe in different place, but the mental space the co presence that is that creates meaning between the makers and the audience, you know that's kind of a cognitive space is being created virtually. And so, so the mechanism by which we created have to be different than what we previously had in theater or in film or in literature. And this is what's so cool that, you know, Igor and some a few other, you know, adventurous theater makers are trying to reinvent the game and reinvent and invent a new genre in which the co presence would be completely defined in a completely different way than previously in previous art forms. Thank you. So, as we sit here in the future. I'm going to ask as a as a wrap up, I'm going to challenge each of our panelists to take two minutes and answer the following questions. Where is this experimentation leading. And what do you think the future holds. We unfortunately lost. Amen, but he did he was able to answer this question for us before he left so I'm going to share his thoughts with innovators like Igor the sky is really the limit interactive productions where the audience is able to be a part of the production itself brings a whole new element as a technology company bird dog is really excited to be able to be a part of such groundbreaking production art meeting technology, it honestly could could not be any cooler from their perspective. Why don't we start with Eric. I think all of this experimentation leads to two things. The one is sort of redefining live theater. How it looks just what happens, how to view it. And the second is opening up live theater to new audiences in new ways. So that's really like the fact that people that don't go to theater don't know check off have the chance to sit at home and watch something. You know gives them a chance to go Oh that's really. Okay, it's better than Netflix or it's different than Netflix. Maybe next time I will sit in a room with theater. The fact that you add all of these ways of looking at theater live in the room in the theater with other people, because you feel the energy when you're with people, and you feel their energy that the audience, the people on stage by adding these elements, it sort of helps to redefine like well what is theater, what is theater moving towards how to integrate like, what is the future into what is the age old past of the history of theater drama has been around for how long. So, that's what I think. Thank you. Well, since I'm coming at this from the video game side, although I have a background in theater. For me, I think there's a couple of challenges that, you know, that have to be negotiated with and figured out as we move forward I think one of them is simply that the time scale on which the time frame on which games are made even indie games fairly and small games with small teams is a lot longer than the time frame in which most theatrical productions are made and that's, we've already found that to be something of a challenge because it limits to an in some ways. What you can do from sort of the interactive the digital side because because you can you can get a play up and running in a few weeks if you're if you're really putting your back into it. Whereas it's very difficult to do that with a game it's all it's pretty much impossible. So that's one thing. The other thing is that as I'm sure Magda knows very well one of one of the key elements in video game design. And this is certainly a thing that plays into narrative design is the idea that unlike traditional theater audiences who are active and in the room but they're also still sitting in a chair and they're and they're receiving. So there's a passive nature to the to their sort of experience and you just were to or Eric referred to Netflix. You know like that games are not supposed to be like that right games are supposed to be a thing that engage you and where you are playing an active role in how the thing unfolds and so we know that there is. There's an element of agency of player agency if you will that we need in the digital side of this ultimately for it to really feel like a truly interactive experience and in this show what you see with the way you see us doing that it is the auction of the NFT and then most the other auction stuff is sort of it feels like it's interactive and real but really that's kind of smoke and mirrors and that that's how we do it in game sometimes sometimes we give the illusion of agency rather than actual agency. And, but there needs to be some actual agency and, and, you know, figuring out how to get a good solid handshake between theater and the way theaters traditionally done and experienced and the way interactive entertainment, like a video game is generally experienced. That's that's a challenge and it's a lot of fun. Absolutely. Adam. You know I think, you know, your question where is this leading and you know what is the future hold is an interesting one and Eric and Tom. Thank you for team that up perfectly. But I think, from my perspective, a lot of what we're seeing now in in the mediums that are in people that are pushing in the mediums that they traditionally come from whether it be theater whether it be games, whether it be museums, even on the brand side. You know that it all sort of lends itself to one thing, which is that, you know, these tools are becoming more prolific they're being able to be used across these different mediums and really we're blurring lines, right we're blurring the lines between what a digital experiences between what a game is between what an immersive experiences what you experience at home versus what your experience out of home. It's exciting right because each of with each of these lines that's blurred and each of these sort of best practices from each one of these industries or art forms. Really, we get to tell deeper and richer stories. And, you know, where this is all headed in my mind is that we're going to have these amazing narratives that we can tell and and on different devices and in different places and in different ways, and really bring people into them. You know, where they are we can meet people in their living room we can have people come out to a public space and connect them all through through a singular thread. And I think we're going to see a lot more of that and this is a really great example of like how that can be done well. And it's really hard right because there are no rules and, and a lot of the things that traditionally work maybe in one, in one case don't work in another. So the experimentation that's happening here is so exciting. And I think that's why you see everybody on this call and everybody as part of this production be really, you know, so enthusiastic about about what's happening here, because really are pushing the boundaries and seeing what's going to be done next. Thank you. Well, I mean, I think it leads to what kind of metaverse, hopefully much more sophisticated and complex than the one that Mark Zuckerberg is trying to build, and a little bit more successful one as well. But I think this is the future in some way, and the blending of our realities already happened and it making, you know, changes to the way that we conceptualize ourselves there's a whole area of studies which is trying to figure out how this sort of a double existence between virtual and real cell coexist. And how the stories will be told and what the purpose of the stories will be, I mean we know, you know that film and they have premise of rip story has a premise. So what will be the purpose of the stories told in the metaverse will be another question that we will have to kind of decide. But that's, that's my prediction and I'm sticking to it. I'm looking forward to meeting everybody there. To wrap things up, we'll turn to the mastermind behind the orchard. You've heard multiple versions of of the future. That that could be potentially a front of us Igor, but what's next for you what's next for the orchard. Where is zero G and virtual theater lab going with questions experiments with futures and iterations. Do you have in store for us. Yeah, I want to first of all thank you for all those beautiful and incredible comments about what the future holds I think we're speaking about the same thing just from different directions. I think what's most interesting is the in theater and in life I guess is the human connection. And with the world getting smaller. It seems like we should be closer. But to me it seems like it's on the contrary people are getting far even though they're very connected on social media. It seems like people are more and more disconnected the smaller the world becomes and theater has always, I think, found a way to, to build those connections with people. And for me and one of the things that I'm looking forward to and really the purpose of what what I'm doing is try to connect people in the virtual actually actually connect and have them go through experiences together and make it work and give access to the people that cannot be in the physical space with us today, or at the time of the of the show. So, for me it's it goes back to the very kind of basics of this art form, which is the human connection the common, the empathy that common humanity in us, and, and, and how do we connect us. How do we connect ourselves. Is it possible to hold the breath together. While experiencing a production in the virtual. And that is a specific goal that I have. How do I make the audience to hold breath together in the virtual. I think you're accomplishing that. Thank you, everybody for being here. And thank you for everybody who's been watching. If you have any other questions or thoughts or any curiosities please feel free to write us at info at are looking players.com. And please come see the orchard there's two more shows tonight and tomorrow, you can find more information at www.the orchard off Broadway.com. We have all the panelists here to are looking players theater to arts Emerson and to how around for hosting us today. And we'll see you all in the metaverse.