 Welcome back. This is Still Why in the Morning. We are on to our first conversation where we're talking about career development. You can interact with us, ask your questions. The hashtag to use is Why in the Morning at Y254 Channel and at Stephanie Ayyeta. We have been joined by our guest. He is the founder and mentor of Living Effectively Mentorship Programme. He is also the Global Communication Specialist at PATH. Thank you so much. I'm glad to have you with us. Thank you for having me. Okay, so tell us a bit about yourself. My name is Douglas Oudo. I'm born again. As you mentioned, I'm the mentor for Living Effectively Mentorship Programme. In short, is LEMP. And the purpose of the program is basically we run a structured 10-week program to equip individuals to discover their purpose and also to utilize their good given potential so that they live an effective life as they also become agents of change in the society. I have over 16 years of experience in the field of communication. My background is communication. And I work for an organization called PATH. As you mentioned, I'm the Global Communication Specialist. And I am married also. I have a little girl called Tarnisha and I don't know if you need me to go to my education. Yes, we'd actually want you to start off by telling us about your career so that we can relate to it because we know that I know that your career has been on an upward trajectory. So maybe you can tell us about your career. But before you go into that, tell us the difference between a career and a job fast and then you get into that. A career is what someone has specialized in and they do it for quite a long time. So they have gained experience of the same. A job I will describe it as something that you do to a livelihood. It may not necessarily be in the path of your specialization or education, but it's just something that you do to get you a living. Okay, so tell us about your career journey. It's a long one. 16 years is quite a long one. First of all, I have, you know, I'll just start because it's a long story. I'll try and cut it short. So after I cleared high school, I went to, I did a diploma in mass communication. And then it was a two-year program. And then after that, I went to study my undergraduate. I went to India, where I specialized in mass communication and journalism. And then I came back to Kenya and started working. I immediately started working in 2006. I entered into the NGO world as a communication specialist. And then as I started working, I enrolled in the state of positive. I started doing my master's in communication, but I specialized in corporate communication. And then that was a two-year master's program. And then after that, I was still working for this international NGO that we were specializing in agricultural productivity. I worked there for five years, and then I moved to a regional position where I worked on behalf of the Australian High Commission. I was supporting programs in 11 African countries. And then from there, I worked there for around three, four years. And then I moved to the UN. In the UN, I was there for close to four years. It's when now I moved to PATH because of the global. I wanted just to have that global experience. And so I worked for PATH. I support 70 countries in communication. Wow. So with that kind of expertise in this field, in the career from experience, how would you advise someone to choose the right occupation or the right career before when someone is out of high school? So how is the, you know, what are the things to look out for to choose the right career? Yeah, that's a very good question, Stephanie. I think very quickly, I always advise because one, because this is something you're going to do for the rest of your life, possibly. And that is why it's called a career. So it's a long-term, you know, profession engagement. And so what I always advise a lot of people is that don't be excited about a profession that has money. Of course, money is a factor, but it should not be the main thing because it has to start with passion. So what are you passionate about? What is it that makes you want to wake up in the morning? And it would be good to do a career that is almost like a hobby to you. And that is how you enjoy the process. And so you have to start by what are you passionate about? And then the second thing is what contribution do you want to make to the world as an individual? Because, you know, I'm a believer that we have been brought here on earth for a reason and for a season. And because we are here for a season and a reason, you have to know the reason of your existence and it has to be connected to your career so that when you're working and whatever you're doing, you are touching lives, you're making a difference in your generation, but at the same time you're also enjoying the journey. Yes. Okay, so your career, basically you're saying it should be linked to your purpose? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And so what happens to the students who are called, you know, by the placement and you're just placed at, you know, any cost that is there because you don't really have an option to choose. This is the one that I chose, but this is the one that I've been called for. So what happens to you after that, after the four years you've studied? Let me start by saying that I have actually mentored, for the last seven years, I've mentored these kind of people who really feel frustrated, lost, disappointed because they feel they are kind of forced a cost that they really didn't want. And so one of the things, of course, you have to look at different contexts, depends. But one of the things I will tell them, if you have had no choice in your career, probably it's your parents that really convinced you and like you've mentioned also, the cost that you really wanted, you couldn't get it and so you're given a second choice. It is just okay because it has happened, you go through the cost, but at the same time, you should also follow your passion. For instance, I'll give you an example. For instance, for me, I remember when I went into high school, my dad convinced me to do accounting and my elder sister because she was an accountant and I went into accounting, I specialized in accounting, but it wasn't my thing. I was really struggling with accounting, but I continued until when I got an opportunity to university. I started with it because that was the basis, but at some point I switched. When I got into my second year, I switched into journalism and of course now I had this chat with my parents and my sister and they understood this is what I really wanted. If you have no choice, you can still go through it. I've seen people who have gone through the causes that they are, wasn't their first priority, but then at some point they will switch to their main cause. Of course, there is the issue of finances and all that. If it was a scenario, what you can do is if you continue with a cause that you didn't specialize in and you get into a job, you can get an opportunity now that you have an income and still go back to your main cause. You can still study in the evenings and as you do that, at some point you switch careers. I have seen a lot of people doing that. What you're saying is that for one to choose a career first, they have to look at the passion and the interest they are in and it should be aligned to their purpose so that they have fun while they do what they want to do. In case you've gotten into the wrong cause, you find your way to change it along the way or maybe you finish it and you are able to finance it after you get a job. Now, for someone who has done the cause that they wanted to at the university, how do they advance their career from there? How do they develop their career? I like that. I like this conversation because this is kind of my forte. I really enjoy sharing my experience and knowledge around this. You have just gone through your career in university or in college and you have finished. How do you then transition? One of the things, particularly, let me start for those who are still in campus or in college, start taking opportunities to volunteer and do attachment, do internships because this starts laying a foundation for you and preparing you for the outside world. By the time you get to look for a job as you're outside in the world, you have some sense of experience and exposure and knowledge of what goes there. I'm sure you've seen almost every job vacancy advertisement. They always ask for some minimum level of experience and knowledge. So you start taking advantage of this while you are still in school. If you're already outside of school, as you're already outside of university or college, as you're still looking for a job, there's nothing that stops you to also volunteer and do internships and do attachments and get an exposure because you'll have a competitive advantage if you go to a job interview and you say I graduated last year but at the moment this is what I've been doing but I'm also looking for a job. It shows someone who has taken initiative to really invest in their career. So I would suggest that there is one. Of course, the other thing is to continue looking. There are a lot of platforms. You can find jobs, you talk to relatives, the networks, people around you. But at the same time, my main thing is don't just sit around. Try and do something. It may not mean necessarily what you studied but as you do that, you're also getting just exposure of how to relate with people, expectations of the job market and also you're getting knowledge of how to position yourself. Okay. So basically they should put themselves out there and not worry about if money is coming in or not because they usually complain. So how do I get the fare to go to this particular job? So how do you advise them? Because there's also the aspect of the finances. So I'm not given any token. So how do I afford to go to the internship or attachments every time? I'll give you my own experience. When I finished college before I transitioned and went to India, I interned. I was actually an intern here in KBC. And I also interned at Transworld Radio and quite a number of them. And what I did was I used to ask for fare from my parents and also my uncle when I came to Nairobi or staying with my uncle. And I will also just ask my cousins, the ones who are working, we had a good relationship. And they saw the initiative and they saw the passion and the hunger I had in getting a job, but also in just building my experience. And they were very supportive because that is also one thing that I think young people need to understand, that if you need people to help you, you also have to show initiative. If you wake up at 11 in the morning every day, you know, you're regarded as lazy and no one will want to invest in you. But if you show initiative, you know, you're busy, there's something you're doing, you're very supportive even in your own family, people will want to invest in you. So you can ask around and get some fare. I remember at some point when I was starting my internships, I never used to have money, but I will work to the internship. And then there is this aspect of people declining internship opportunities of attachment because they're not being paid. I will shock you that my first internship, I'm the one who used to pay the organization to do internship there. Yes, that means an organization to ask for. Yes. And I was looking at the bigger picture. It wasn't just the, you know, the current, I need money now. I was looking at the bigger picture. And the bigger picture in terms of this is an opportunity for me to earn and get experience and get knowledge and be exposed in the job market. And I know this will pay. And the dividends really paid. You know, now I've been in this field for the last 16 years. And that is how I started. And this was a foundation I was building for myself. So it is important to build that foundation. Okay. And for a person who's already working in the career that they want, but they feel stuck. So what entails, what does career development entail? What steps do they need to take to ensure that they are progressing in their career? First of all, I want to challenge anyone who has a job. Because the worst thing of having a job, an employment, for instance, is something I call comfort zone, where you know you have a contract, you know, you have a job, you know, by the end of the month, you have a salary. And a lot of people's luck, they stop investing in themselves. So the first thing is ensure you continue. Well, it's part of basically, actually, that is the basic definition of personal development. So you always invest in yourself, you keep in yourself with necessary skills, you get ahead of the game. You learn new softwares, you continue, there are a lot of online courses you can do. Most of them are actually free, you can just enroll and you do. And that is how you continue learning and investing in knowledge. And that is how you continue also getting exposure. And for those who are also working, I always say, do not specialize in your department. Be exposed in what other aspects of the organization. If you're in accounting, have a basic understanding of what HR department does. Have a basic understanding of what administration operations department do. Because that is how you increase your brand equity in the organization, you increase your value. And that is how you become valuable in an organization. But also that is how you get promoted. Because you're promoted based on the value that you bring in. And if you came in with the same value, let's say 5% of the understanding you had and the knowledge and the experience from school or what you've gained over the years and you've not had on it, you're going to be disadvantaged when it comes to job opportunities. I remember for me, for instance, by the time I was finishing my degree, I had nine certificates and I had four diplomas. Because when I was in school, I will go for classes from morning to evening. In the evening, I enrolled for evening classes, I will do a diploma in broadcasting, digital broadcasting. I'll do a diploma in video production and all that. And then I published a book on the north of two novels. And so by the time I came to Kenya and I was looking for a job, these are the things that I became very competitive and employers were really, really looking for me. And from since I started working, just because of how I have invested in myself, I rarely look for a job. Because I get just offers. People will come and say, you know, we want you to work for us. And I've never stopped for the last 16 years. I still do courses. I still attend seminars and workshops. I have a general understanding of what my organization does from in all departments. So I am always dependent on if a colleague goes for paternity or maternity leave or a colleague falls sick, they will say Douglas will be a backfill for this person because I have general knowledge of what the organization does. And that is how you improve your brand equity. Wow, OK. So you must focus on increasing your value every time. And ensuring that you're an asset to that organization. Yes. All right. And what is the place of vision in career development? Vision is important. Vision is the basis. It's the roadmap. Vision is the destination. Vision should be the destination for your career. In other words, you should have a clear idea of what you want to achieve. And of course, vision can be broken in three parts. You can have a short term vision, you can have a medium term vision and a long term vision. I remember when I began, I began as an intern for six months. And my vision was to become the communication manager in the organization. And so it was at the top of my mind as an intern. I was doing it with a mindset of understanding how to manage a communication department in my organization. And that propelled everything that I did. And I had to prove myself. I had to learn. I had to know what management means and what communication means and what are the needs of the communication for the organization. And I was able to achieve that. And then I gave myself another two to three years to get a promotion. And I was able to achieve that. Then I gave myself, within five years, I want to become a bigger manager than I am. And I need to work in a big organization that I was. And I have been achieving that. And at some point, I remember I had a vision of working at the UN. And I achieved that. I went and worked at the UN. You know, when I got to a point where I felt I have done my best in the organization, I was managing the program in Kenya. I wanted to go into the region, into work within Africa. Because now I felt I'm bigger now than working in a country program. And I went and worked in the region. I worked for East and South Africa. And reason last year is when I transitioned now into the global position. So you have a vision. And now I have a vision of becoming my boss. So I'm not fighting her. But it's just a vision I have when the opportunity arises. You know, I will be well equipped to take it out to take it up. So I have a vision of my career and I also have a vision when I would want to retire. I want to return, pursue serving God and other things that are of interest to me. Okay. So it's good to have to know the end from the beginning. Exactly. No destination. And how important is, you know, putting down your vision? It's very important. Let me speak to young people because this is where it becomes a bit challenging. And it's never emphasized as such. Let me start with the ones who are in school, who are in university or college. I will encourage you to have a vision of your career. So you know very well, maybe if you're in first year, second year, third year, you know very well when you are potentially going to graduate. And let's say it's by end of the year or by end of next year or something, you already know. So the first thing, the first vision should be I'm going to commit myself to graduate and not just graduate, graduate with the first class owners. So you invest in that also because if you graduate with excellence, it gives your competitive advantage in the job market. So you have to understand that. And so you have to prioritize education. As you go to school, you know, you have to know this is the main thing now. This is my season. This is my time. This is my opportunity. And you don't joke with education. You actually just take it as seriously as it should. And then after that, you tell yourself, as I'm also studying another part of the vision, I'm in college or campus, I won by the time I graduate, I want to have accumulated at two years of experience. So you start looking for job opportunities. If you can work part time, if you can do internship, if you can volunteer, volunteer is also important because it also, it just shows your character. It also shows, you know, someone who is a getter, you know, a go getter, someone who takes initiative. And then so those are two visions graduate, at least have some level of experience, level of experience and knowledge and exposure of the job market. And then you say, the first year of my graduation after I've graduated, I want to have already worked for a certain organization. By now, you should, as you encompass, you should already have an idea of where you want to work, which organization you want to work to. Because even you go to go to pray, God tells you ask and I will give you. So you have to ask God and say, I want to work for this organization. And so it helps you start connecting and building networks. That is very important. So you start building networks within the industry, as you're still in school. So by the time you get out of school, you already know someone who works at KBC, if you have interest in broadcasting, you know, someone who works, you know, in a marketing firm, if you have interest in marketing, and, you know, you can start tapping, you don't have to go very fast, start tapping within your networks. You have relatives, you have cousins, your uncles who work, you have your professors, your, your lecturers in school, they know someone who knows someone, you have networks in the church, you can talk to people in the church, you have your neighbors, you have people in your community, you have your dad's friends, your mom's friends, you can always talk and, and, and, and network and, you know, and that is also how, you know, having some sense of a CV helps because even if you, my mom's friend comes and visits, I will always drop a CV and I say, oh, but you know, I'm looking for an internship, you know, I'm looking for an opportunity to work, something like that, and it always works. And, and so that is why you break that in terms of vision. If you're already working, for instance, like I said, have a vision, where do you see yourself in the next five years? Where do you see yourself? I, I know someone, a previous colleague who worked in the same position with the same salary more or less, or the same for 27 years. Wow. Because of comfort zone. Your stagnant, yes. Yeah, comfort zone. And at some point when us young people came into the organization, got into professional levels who were being promoted every time, there's a lot of resentment and hatred and jealousy from her side, because she thought she deserves the promotion because she's been there for long. But the organization does not look how loyal you are, you know, so to speak, they look at the value that you bring in the organization. Yeah. All right. And you've introduced the aspect of networking. So people, maybe you can debunk the myth that networking is, you know, a form of corruption or something. You've experienced well that you can network with your friends, your family, your neighbor. So, yeah, debunk that myth that networking is corruption. This is one of those topics I enjoy talking about. Networking is key for every person. And it's not just about when you're looking for a job or anything, but even when you're setting up a business. What is networking? Networking is just connecting with the right people and the right opportunities for your success. And networking is basically you don't go for people because you want to use them or you want to abuse them. You go for people because one of the things I need to really, you know, emphasize about networking is that networking is a given take. Networking is a win win. So as I'm looking for a job, I am depending on you for support, but there's also some value I'm adding in the relationship. Because if you miss that, then it becomes an abusive relationship where it's only one party that is feeding on the other. And so when you're networking with people, you also show what value you bring on the table. And it's the same concept I always say when you're looking for a job or when you go for a job interview. When you go for a job interview, of course you need a job for your livelihood and for your other dreams and everything that you want. But at the same time, what the interviewers are interested to know is what value are you bringing in the organization? And so that is the same concept when you use for networking. And I shudder sometimes seeing how people are sitting on a gold mine called networks. And they have never known how to utilize it. I will ask you a simple question. If any of our viewers who are watching right now, everyone I'm assuming they have a phone and that phone there's something called a phone book. You have addresses. There are people there. If you could just strategically look at those contacts as a potential network, it will do magic to your business, to your career. Sometimes you don't have to call people and ask, I need a job. Sometimes we just check on people because also networking is basically is the establishment and the maintenance of relationships. So you establish, but you also maintain so that by the when the day I will need help, we already have a rapport. We already have a relationship. You and I know very well, you know, of all those friends you last pop when you're in high school. And then all of a sudden they have put you in their wedding committee. You feel abused because you're like, hi, I've not talked to him for 20 years. How dare he now put me in his wedding committee and he's asking me for 20,000. Yes, you know, and that is the same thing when people feel when there is no maintenance of a network. But over and above, networking is very important. I'll just give you an example very quickly. It's a biblical one. So when Jesus comes on the scene, the first thing he does before he puts his before he starts, you know, preaching the gospel, he puts together a network of 12 people. And these are the people that helped him to achieve his mission on the earth. And it's the same thing we should be investing in ourselves, always making sure you have a network and always make sure you have someone. It is ridiculous for me if you're trying to get into the job market and you don't have any new networks or you're not talking to anyone in the job market because how do you know what is going on? How do you know your expectation? Most of the questions are usually here is how what salary should I quote in a job interview? Networks help you because if for instance, if you're trying to get into the world of communication because I've been there for 16 years, I can tell you if you're an entry, there is a certain salary should ask, never ask more than this because that is best on your value and your knowledge and your experience at the level you are. And so I'm able to help even as you go to for interviews. So you go there with knowledge. All right. So that's about networking. Thank you for that. And we also want to know how do you build the right networks? How do you identify the right networks? Good. So I classify networks on different levels. But over and above. So in terms of, you know, as I'm a student, they are they are networks I want. If I'm already working, they are potential networks that I want. But ones are your question very simple. How do I build a network? Number one is make sure that you have a you have a goal. So a goal of a vision in terms of remember the vision we had of I have to have a job at this time. So you you you just draft something very small and say, you know, I want to go into the marketing world. That is my career. I want to be a marketer. And so who within my network is a marketer or who knows a marketer? And then you start. So as you interact with people, these are questions you ask your relatives, you know, the kind of people I just mentioned, you know, people at church and all that. And then you start getting people's addresses, contacts, and you informally or formally start getting in touch with them. You can do them an email and attach your CV. They say, you know, Hi, Stephanie. My name is Douglas. I am a student or I've just recently graduated. I am reaching out to for you if you ever come across any opportunity in marketing. So that is a very wonderful way of networking. I have seen young people who have gone ahead and printed business cards, you know, and just say university graduate, you know, in terms of position or they will even brand themselves, you know, communication specialist or something. And they will hand it over to people and say, you know, if you ever get any opportunity in communication, kindly get in touch with me. So that is what that for me, that is one of the very basic but very effective way of networking. Another one is social media. I should not forget this. Social media is such a resource in terms of networking. They someone I come across on Twitter who had put a link of his CV on Twitter and he had done. He had pinned that tweet and I really loved it. And people are so excited and they help him. And I followed the story because I I know eventually he got a job. And so that is also one way of networking. Make sure you if you want to go into your profession, make sure you have a wonderful LinkedIn account for instance. You keep on updating it because that is also how you get because LinkedIn is a group of professionals. It's a world where it is a wonderful effective, you know, an effective vehicle for networking. How do you use your social media? If I go to your social media, what what is it that I get? What are what are the vibes of your social media? OK, do I scan through your social media and the first impression I get of you is just a party animal and yet you want to go into professional professional you know, a professional course. You know, what are the vibes? What do you talk about? How do you package yourself? What is your brand on social media? For instance, you know, because that is one of the best way of networking. And what a lot of people do not know is that most of these organizations by the time they use social media as also part of deciding who when they're shortlisting people to come for the interview. And actually, most of them visit your social media. So they want to see what kind of a person you are. OK. Yeah. And so a lot of us actually disqualify ourselves from job positions and job opportunities because just by virtue of how we use our social media platforms. Wow. OK. So it is very important to brand yourself well on social media if you want to attract the right opportunities. As you come to a close of this interesting conversation, let me quote you and some of the statements that I've had you make in your forums. Your value goes up with the problems you solve. And if you're waiting on the Lord, do what we just do. Wait. So what? What do they mean in relation to this? Yeah. Your value essentially goes up best on the problems you solve. And it's good you've mentioned this because I think this will be a really good, you know, conversation, particularly for people who are listening and they're looking for jobs or they are they want to improve their career. You have always to look yourself as a problem solver. And you always have to look for a potential job position as a problem. And the recruiters or the organization is looking for someone to solve the problem. And so you package yourself as a problem solver. When it comes right down to it, what organizations are looking for in terms of employing people is who can solve a problem better. OK. And so when you go for a job interview, for instance, that is essentially what they're looking for. Are you able to solve the problem we have? We have a problem with communication in organizations. So we are looking for communication manager and they go ahead and do for you a job description. They say we are looking for someone who can develop and implement a corporate communication strategy. That someone should be a Kenyan citizen. That someone should have a basic computer knowledge. That someone. So they're already telling you the kind of person they are looking for to solve the problem. So your work is to go and prove to them that the person you're looking for. It is me. It's me. OK. The other aspect of it I don't to forget to mention as you're also looking for a job, nothing stops you from being a job seeker. I mean a job creator. As you're a job seeker, nothing stops you from being a job creator. A job creator basically is you start using the gift and the talents and the knowledge and the networks you have to start making money. I have a novel here which which I brought for you. I published this novel when I was almost graduating in third year. And during my free time, I'll write the novel. This is my second novel. The first one is called Confessions of a Foreign Student. And this novel I am earning money as I'm working because I'm selling it. And so I used my passion for writing to put into a novel and I sell it and I make money out of it. So I want to encourage young people also look for something you can do. Look at your passion. If you're good in writing stories, if you're good in writing poetry, packet that if you're good in making bandazis, if you're good in software development, you don't have to look wait to be employed to start using your skills. OK, so start with what you have. Yes. OK. Thank you for the novel. Can I get the novel? Can I get it? Thank you. I do have my novel right here called The Devil's Favourite Demon. I will definitely have a read, you know, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. So thank you very much for coming on board Douglas. Maybe you can give us your final remarks as you tell us where people can find you. If the guys who want to join the mentorship program, how will they get in? I can be found on social media. You just go to Facebook Douglas, you'll find me on Twitter at Douglas, I'm also linked in Douglas, and my contacts are there. We also have a website for the mentorship program, LEM, that is L-E-M-P.C-O.K-E. L-E-M-P.C-O.K-E. You'll find all the information about the mentorship program, when to enroll and what we do. OK, thank you very much. Douglas really appreciate the insights that you've given us on this particular topic, career development. We're looking forward to have you again in the show. Thank you for having me. All right, so we have come to the end of the first conversation, but we'll be right back with the next conversation on youth and politics. We have Ram Agoko for that. We continue with the conversation at Y254. The hashtag to use is Y in the morning. We take a short break, we'll be right back.