 I've just been told, like, I just need loads of protein. Piece of piss, mate, I don't even know. He's unimaginable, he's unimaginable. But I have to eat a lot, because I've got a fast metabolism. How many calories do you have? 5,000. 5,000? Are you f***ing serious? No, it's a 2. I'll just drink it point-a-mill. I can build my muscle without the bodies of animals who'd suffered for it. Maybe I just don't care enough. I don't know, I don't know. Well, steak's supposed to be a superfood, so I've been told, like, everyone's dreaming on to me in the bodybuilding world, they reckon steak's proper superfood. I'm asking people why they're not vegan. I watched your podcast the other day with Tristan. Oh, did you? Yeah, a lot. Had a few people come up and say that, eh? Yeah, yeah. Did you watch the whole thing? I did, yeah. Okay, cool. Did you agree with Tristan? Um, some things. Just put up front there, okay. I agree with some things. Did you agree that, you know, not to care about, like, animals in those factors? Well, yeah, like you were saying, like, I've never seen the factors, so I can't say, but what you were saying, like, it seemed pretty amazing. Like, if you said there was, like, dyeing, right? Yeah. In their sh**. Millions of them will dye in the sheds, because they grow too fast to support their own body weight, they lie on their face, and they'll just dye. Yeah, I've never seen anything like this. Yes, common factory farming is common here in the UK. You'll see the green grass, pastures, all this advertising, but the UK is the same as any other country when it comes to factory farming. The main reason why I'm not vegan though is because I don't know enough about it. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Is that the main reason? Do you care about the experiences of, like, other animals? Yeah, I do, yeah. So you're not like Tristan? No, in that sense, no. He's like... He's an anomaly dude, like, not an anomaly, but you do get people that are just like, they can just switch off, I don't care. I think he's got a bit of a switch. Yeah. I think he's had to have that hard line switch for whatever reason. Well, he's like that with a lot of things, he's very regimented. Carefree. Yeah. Yeah, like, I think they were saying when he was in jail, he was like, I don't care, my mind is somewhere else, and like, so you can just really make the switch, because I don't think he wants to change. With you, someone who's like, expresses normal human emotion. How do you justify, like, yourself, because I've been vegan nearly 10 years, right? I was a big meat eater, gang member, things like that. Yeah, yeah. I just, myself, couldn't justify doing that to animals for what I got out of it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't in some survival situation. I wasn't defending my family. They didn't commit some heinous crime against me. They were just innocent beings who were like, similar to dogs in their experience, infinitely murdered, tortured often en masse, so I could have this meal three times a day that I could easily replace. Like, I couldn't justify it. I'm asking, like, how do you justify it? Well, obviously, like, I go gym, so... I've just been told, like, I just need loads of protein. Ah, yeah? Yeah, so... How much protein? I have 300, 300 grams. Yeah, you're looking good. You're in better shape than me, but... I don't train. You've got pretty big arms, don't you? I'm going to train a bit more. I've got small arms, flat, for the first time. You look good. You look good. So, how much protein do you need today? 200? I have two. It's 250, about. 250? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get that. I've got fast metabolism, so... He's a piss, mate. He's unimaginable. He's unimaginable. Don't worry about the amino acid profile. Like, it just all levels out. Like, once you get it... If you get enough protein after a certain threshold, you get all the right amino acids. The thing is, with my job, though, I'm always living out of hotels. I can't cook. I can't cook, so I'm always in hotels travelling around each day. Same here? Same here? Oh, really? Yeah, I'm a full-time activist. We travel around a lot. Yeah, yeah. We're travelling right now. We're in a hotel right now, actually. Yeah. And use a bit of Uber Eats. We use an app called Happy Cow. Okay. Or if you're training, I would just go to Tesco. Like, cold mock meats, cold vegan chicken. And I'll come back and I'll make a big... Chuck it in with salad, with beans. And I'll just, like, eat it in a container, like that. And then I can make sure that I'm getting enough protein. I'll bring vegan protein powder with me if I want to hit my protein. Otherwise, I don't know if it fits your macros or if you do, like, more strict regimen. I do, but I have to eat a lot because I've got fat metabolism. How many calories? 5,000. Five? Yeah, yeah. If I have 4,000 below, I'm losing weight. I'm losing weight. Are you f***ing serious? No, it's a joke. What are you doing? I work in a rigger. Oh, for f***ing sake. Build stuff. But, like, that is... Yeah, it's a joke. 5,000 calories, bro. Eating's harder than the training. You're a rigger, but what do you do for training? Weights? Yeah, yeah, weight training. Just pure bodybuilding. Before we get into that, like, do you agree that it's kind of unjustifiable what we do to animals en masse so we can get this, like, trivial amount of... If it wasn't protein, like, let's take protein out of the picture. Just... There's a safer taste, convenience, habit, just like that. Yeah, yeah. You think it's unjustified? I'm not sure, because I'm not... Like I said, I haven't seen how brutal it actually is, but... What do you want to see? What do you want to watch? Yeah. I can show you a couple of things, like... To be honest, I really... I do believe you. I do believe you. I mean, we can show... You do believe me, but, like, it depends on what... What do you eat the most? Chicken? Yeah, it's steak. So if you watch this movie called Land of Hope and Glory, I know of these investigators who got this footage. So this is just, like, stock standard factory farming, pigs dying on slats. Maggots. Yeah, piglets dying on the floor. This is standard. See this s*** all the time. Antibiotics and s*** being injected into them, clipping their teeth out, tail off. Yeah, he was saying, like, this was a great human invention, right? Do you think factory farming is bad? No. Are they cruel, maybe? But I don't care. I think it's an amazing feat of human ingenuity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, I mean, basically with Tristan, I was just, like, allowing him to say things that people, majority of people would disagree with. I mean, it wasn't as hard on Tristan as I usually am on people. I don't know if he was saying that just to wind you up. Exactly. So I was trying not to get wound up. Yeah, yeah. It's a gas chamber. So CO2 is an aversive gas. And when you inhale it, it burns your eyes, nose, mucous membranes, because it's like cannecote gas, you know that s***? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they scream, they scream really loud. I don't agree with it. Massive yoga produced animals. I don't mind so much if you're going out hunting for your food. Okay. But that's not where you get your food, is it? No, obviously not. I'm against hunting too. I think it's murder. But you just go to the store and get your chicken. Yeah. Yeah. So you're basically getting factory farm, chicken, pigs, cows, that are mass slaughtered anyway. Do you think that's justified? Because you said, I don't know what it looks like. We've shown you a little bit. Do you think that's justified for what you get out of it? If you had alternatives. Maybe I just don't care enough. I don't know. Okay. I don't know. You might not. You might not care about that because it's not you. But would you care more if it was dogs in those farms? Not really. No, not really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're disconnected towards us, I suppose. You're on the fence about whether or not that's justified to eat them. Like what happens to them in order to eat them whether it's justified? No, no, no. I don't think it's justified. I think we should make better attempts to make it more humane. Okay. That's what I think. But at the moment you support the inhumane stuff. I don't know if I support it. I mean, when I say support, I don't mean like go team. I mean like you financially, you create the demand for it. Yeah. You give them your money. I do. They kill the animals. You give them the money. You support it in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Where I'm from as well there's like a lot of fox hunting that goes on. And I've seen some brutal like, like there's been a fox before running down a train track and there's loads of dogs just charging down and this fox is trying to climb up this wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like and the dog's just ripping up. You're against that? Oh yeah. And why? Why are you against it? Because I don't think there's no need at all. That's just pure cruelty in my opinion. Me? No. But I would say it was not needless cruelty. I did it because I wanted to eat the fox. Do people even eat foxes? Just a hypothetical. Just trying to figure out because the reason I'm saying this just so you're clear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's because I think all this is needless cruelty and suffering as well. I asked you why the dog hunting of the fox is wrong and you said because it's needless cruelty and then I just added the caveat of eating the fox. So maybe you thought, oh well now it's not needless or wait, is it still wrong? Oh yeah, it's still wrong. Like 10 dogs after one fox like what the hell is that? Being dropped into a dungeon filled with gases horrifying too. Yeah. But I didn't know this before you just told me. I didn't know they got dropped into gas. I had no idea. I thought they just go to a slaughterhouse, trapped in pens and then just get slipped. What do you think about that then? You think that's okay? I don't think it's okay but there's It's better. You can make we can torture animals more. Like for me example I'd much rather be shot in the back of the head without like we're having this conversation bang, shoot me in the back of the head and I know nothing about it. Then being consciously walk down a kill floor and having my throat slashed or going into a gas chamber and like struggling and drowning in gas, right? So yeah, there are better ways to be killed, right? Yeah. But because there are better ways to kill, does that make killing me okay? For a sandwich let's just say like for a burger like the same way. For, um, hit the macros, you know what I mean? Just hit the mac, the macros. I do agree with Chist in that sense though. I don't think humans are the same as animals. I like to say that they're on the same plane which is what Tristan was like oh, they're exactly equal. No. They share conscious experience. It might be different but it's still worth more than our taste buds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. So like shooting a human in the head for a sandwich is wrong, right? Shooting a cow in the head for a sandwich is not wrong. From the cow's position is f***ing wrong. Yeah, from the cow's position, yeah. That's all I give a f*** about. From my position. Shooting you in the head is not wrong for me. It's wrong for you which is why it's wrong. I think it's supposed to be a superfood, so I've been told. Everyone's dreaming on to me in the bodybuilding world they reckon steak's proper superfood. Probably listening to f***ing all the carnivore quack clowns. I don't know who to believe these days to be honest. Yeah, look, all of the good nutritional data points to the more red meat consumption you engage in. So you start seeing like certain cancers or like heart disease risk. There's saturated fat in there, you know what I mean? It raises your blood cholesterol. The carnivore guys are basing their like this red meat being a superfood off of no reliable nutritional data. It's just f***ing like opinions. So what's your opinion on milk? Ethically, it's an abomination the way they obtain it. They rape her in the ass with an arm to hold the cervix through the anal lining and then they shove semen that they wanked off out of a bull into her to impregnate her, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Full bestiality, right? She has an arm on pregnancy and they take her calves away. The males don't produce milk so they're not useful so they get slaughtered. Young, two weeks old, whatever. Get rid of them. They might go to veal, some might go to beef but they're slaughtered. The females, some little hutches they get grown to be used in the same way. So that keeps the milk flowing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they do that for about four or five cycles until she can't get pregnant anymore. Yeah. She goes to get minced up into burgers, right? That's a dairy industry. Okay, yeah. And there's a lot of suffering and welfare issues. The maternal trauma being separated from calf to mother is one, lameness, mastitis, mutilations. They cut their horns off and s***. They can drop down then they'll just do it. I know, there's a lot of bodybuilders by me. There's a farm that's illegal, but like, they get raw milk. Okay. Yeah, so like, I've seen a few people advocating that. The dispenser is at the farms. Look, I mean, the dairy industry is a moral abomination. I don't think you need dairy milk. I mean, plant protein has better health outcomes than dairy protein. But dairy's an abomination even if they're, like, dairy's a healthier food than red meat. But it's just a f***ing abomination needless. Plant milk, why do you need milk anyway? Put it in your cereal. Easy calories, to be honest. That's the main reason. Easy calories. I'm a big drinker, so like, point of milk. So do you use smoothies or not? Not so much anymore, I used to. I just drink it point of milk. Ugh. Yuck. I mean, it tastes like f***ing spew now. Really? Yeah, and you gotta think that's for a baby cow. Like, it's a justified, like, dairy industry so we can drink connotations or anything. A little, but... What stops you from doing something bad? I don't feel good if I do bad things. So you're conscious? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I feel good when I do good things. Pretty simple, eh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I want to be principled and I don't think they deserve it. It's like, f***ing evil s***, you know what I mean? And it's a consumer demand thing. The more f***ing that's demanded, the more children get f***ing f***ing f***ed up from it. Yeah, yeah, 100%. So in the same way, like, this here, I see it as like, obviously it's different. The reasons are different. We're doing it for food and sustenance, whatever, taste, whatever. But it's just like, it's evil to buy this product in terms of like, amounts of suffering, killing, murder, as it is to buy or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And all the only thing can stop you is your conscience, right? It is, yeah. Probably get your macros pretty easily as a vegan if you... if you... it might be a little bit of touch. Maybe, yeah, I'd have to do a bit of research, right? Because it seems to me like you're the type of person who spends a bit of time managing their diet anyway. I would give it a go. Like, I'm not a person that's like, no, I'll never try it. So I would give it a go there, but... But you agree that it's wrong to... these industries are bad? Yeah. Yeah, overall, yeah. Overall? I'd say they're pretty bad, yeah. Overall, I'd say. And best case scenario? Do you think that's bad? Yeah, I'd say so. I'd say so, yeah. I think of the best case scenario, there's a cow there, liking their life, chilling, new walk up and slasher head off. Yeah. Eat that body. Yeah. Maybe if I see it more in real life, like, I'd have a different opinion, but it's like, I'm a bit blind to it all. Yeah. Disconnected, man. You just go on the store and you buy it, and I see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it is. The amount of calories you're eating, like, you're contributing a little extra than your average person, actually, to the supply chain. Yeah. You need a little extra meat. You need extra animals being killed. But there's kids on the farm. They've just been breaking chicken snacks from a little kid. Like, just think nothing of it. Yeah. Just like, like it's drinking water. Some people can kill people and think nothing of it like it's drinking water. Yeah, yeah. And the next thing I know is, I used to know, just smashing stick a knife into you and walk off and think nothing of it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It doesn't change the ethics of the action, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I get it. A lot of people are disconnected. A lot of people are conditioned to violence. Some people don't care like Tristan doesn't. You care. If you feel bad when you do bad things and good when you do good things, maybe if you've seen a little bit, like, watch that land of hope and glory start to finish, and think, I can build my muscle without the bodies of animals who had suffered for it. Yeah. Or been murdered for it. And the whole body. And feel good about that. That I haven't caused the wake of destruction in its path. Yeah. I might give it a go, but I need to know more about being a vegan, to be honest. Meals and whatever. Check out Brian Turner. Brian Turner, yeah. Or Neema Delgado. Why are they good chefs? No, they're vegan bodybuilders. Oh, are they, yeah? Yeah. Or Hentcherba Bull. Interesting, yeah. It's doable, mate. Yeah. Like, you already look for s***. You're already making a little bit of an effort there. Yeah, yeah. And if I can do it, f***, anyone can do it, bro. I come from f***ing no education s***. And I can do it. Yeah, yeah. I can get my 160 grams. I can do 2,000 calories when I'm cutting, and then whatever, man. I can find protein sources everywhere. TVP's a good one. You can bring it in a bag dry. Yeah, you're too committed. Not too great, but proper committed. I don't f***ing bring it around with me when I'm travelling. We just get Uber Eats, or we go to Tesco, or we f***ing use an app called Happy Cow when we find vegan restaurants around. Yeah. Or vegan options like, vegan options everywhere, bro. On this street alone there's about 10. Burger King McDonald's have vegan options. You can get extra patties on the plant, Mcplant. I find it a bit strange that we're vegans. Well, they go vegan for health reasons and then eat like processed. Like the McPlant burger, for example. You're concerned about it? I don't know. But like when people say they do it for health reasons. You can't go to vegan for health reasons. You can only go vegan for ethics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm thinking, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you should look after your health, but all processed food is bad. Yeah, yeah. All vegan, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people, they just generally want to be healthy and they want to have a burger. Yeah, yeah. At least options there. So they get the decapitated animal burger. You know? But yeah. We're talking to you, bro. Yes, and you, mate. And you. Thanks for the chat. Appreciate it, mate. Yeah, appreciate it. It's up to you now. Only you and your conscience. Do as thou wilt, but you will be judged by the conscience god. By the vegan gods. Vegan gods. On you, brother. Hello. Are you a vegan? Yes. You're trying to? This is your sign now to be vegan. They don't want to discuss. They don't want to discuss. Are you a vegan? So no, is the correct answer?