 Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us on behalf of the Africa Programme at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the United States Institute of Peace. I'd like to welcome you to this event which will be focusing on Liberia security sector implications and perspectives from the Liberian Minister. I'd like to give a special welcome to those joining us by webcast. Unfortunately we were not able to fit everyone in this room so thank you very much for joining us by webcast and we look forward to your participation as well during this event. As you all know since Liberia's return to democracy we've had a lot of challenges and also a lot of opportunities and progress and a lot of this depends on the strengths, pace and effectiveness of security sector reform in that country and security sector reform pertains not just to the military but also to the police and intelligence services and the extent to which they could effectively address the myriad of human security and how security challenges Liberia faces would tell us how likely the eventual transition to self-sustainability would be in the medium term. Failure of an effective security sector reform program in Liberia would have implications not just for domestic security but also for sub-regional security and those of us following the unfolding events in Côte d'Ivoire know the dangers that this could pose and so today we are very pleased that we have with us the Defense Minister from Liberia, the Honourable Brown E. J. Samuqai, Jr. to lead this discussion. Those of you who have followed Liberia over the decades would be very familiar with the Minister and his work. In addition to being the Minister for National Defence he also chairs the Peace and Security Pillar which is one of the four pillars prioritized as a key development focus in Liberia. He has a very impressive background and you all have copies of his bio so I wouldn't read through it extensively but suffice to mention that he is a former director of the Liberia National Police and so he does have a bit of credibility talking about the non-military side of security sector reform as well. He's a retired colonel from the Liberia Armed Forces and his Fulbright scholar with a master's degree in applied economics from American University here in Washington DC, a kindred spirit and economist always good to have some support. Following the Minister's remarks we'll have three discussants and the first will be Bernadette Paolo president and CEO of the Africa Society of the National Summit on Africa. Her bio is also contained in your handouts and she has had extensive experience not just here in the United States but also on the African continent and we're very pleased to have her here to share her perspectives. Jennifer Cook, our co-host, will be would also be a discussant and she'll be focusing on domestic political issues and how these pertain to security sector reform and broader stability. Our third panelist will be Mike Beatrick who is deputy director of security affairs in the office of regional and security affairs in the Africa Bureau at the State Department. Mike Beatrick is also an old Africa hand and he will be giving us a 35,000 foot view of the key policy issues and the red flags and green flags with which we should all be familiar. Before I invite the minister I'd like to encourage us all to silence our cell phones, our PDAs. They interfere with the audio equipment and also potentially distracting to your neighbors and the speakers. And so without much ado, join me in giving a very warm welcome to Brownie J. Samonkai, Minister of National Defence, Republic of Liberia. Let me thank other the gulping and the staff of the CSIS for inviting me this afternoon. And I'm very pleased to be among this single panel of friends and colleagues and let me say welcome to all of you this afternoon. I am sure there's a lot of expectations. I will hope that we can try our exchange to find a better way of understanding each other given a different perspective that all of us may bring to the issue. I think you are quite aware where Liberia has been coming from. A failed state of 14 years of civil conflict where the clear rule of law had collapsed, where the political system itself had collapsed, where the confidence in providing security for individuals in the country was no longer there. Thousands of Liberians were displaced, thousands were killed. No one had any, the rule of law was pretty much nonexistent. And at the same time you had an environment in which women and children and elderly and young and old were all being victimized by not only rebels but also the state apparatus. So there was a need after the peace agreement of the Comprehensive Peace Accord in 2003 calling for a secretive sector reform process. But that wasn't just a beginning call. The beginning call actually did back to 1990 in the Banju when the peace conference called for the reform of the Liberian secretive sector. So in 2005 with the support of the international community, the support of ECOWAS and others in the region, there was a clearing call for the secretive sector reform and most specifically countries were being axed and in one of them in particular the US was axed to take the lead specifically in helping to reform the armed forces of Liberia. But of course there was also the need for the reform in the police services, in the security services, in the secret services, in the Bureau of Immigration, in intelligence services and different investigative organs of government at that time. But the question was which approach we want to adapt at that point in time. Who do you investigate? What mechanism should you put in place to investigate? But it was an urgent need at that particular point in time for the maintenance of law and order. The UN by itself could not police just individuals saying that they didn't have the right to take the case in the court. So obviously the police as an institution had to be held on to see how quickly they can get into the reform process. So there was an immediate engagement between the United Nations and individual police personnel that were already in the system and then later on brought back those of them who are left. So you had the police going, helping to maintain law and order. But at the same time you had the armed forces of Liberia which had a great opportunity when the decision was taken by Chairman Bryan in the part of 2005 with the support of the U.S. and international community to pretty much find a way to begin anew. So the decision was taken, special order number five was signed by the chairman of transitional government and republished by the armed forces of Liberia High Command thereby providing severance to the entire structure of the armed forces of Liberia. But as an institution, as the AFL honored the law, it still remains. But those individuals in the institution themselves were provided severance. There was a huge challenge as to how do you take care of these thousands of persons because prior to that time the armed forces of Liberia in 2000 and 2004 had less than 10,000 persons. But by the time the reform process started to be demobilized, you had roughly about 14,000 persons that needed to be demobilized. In the military you had a level over 10,000 persons in the police, another 4,000 persons in the secret service, another 3,000 plus persons in immigration. So there's a whole balloon of persons within a security sector that needed to be taken care of. So with that decision taken by the government and republished by the armed forces, it provided the basis for engagement by the international community and the government to find the funding to go ahead and go to the reform process. The governor of Liberia didn't have any money. South Africa had a coming with at least $5 million. Nigeria also came in with some money. The host government came with some money and I think the United States government took the brunt of it and decided to put the money up. What process would you put in place in order to go to the reform process? What were the legal basis for all of that? The process for setting up the legal basis if we were to start would not have allowed the reform process to take place at the same time. So what was agreed upon apparently was to allow the process to proceed in a way that is more systematic and then at the same time provide a legal basis to justify why those actions are being taken. As a result of that, the armed forces of Liberia began the process in which every individual person in the AFL received severance. You had those who were the regular soldiers and those irregular soldiers. So they all received severance and were asked to now reapply through a process that would not distinguish anyone from what tribe it came from, what region of the country it came from, what was your political lineage. Rather, it was strictly on individual merits. So the merit-based system was the basis, the initial basis for entry. And what we call an empirical vetting process in which you have to pass. That is it involved the community, where you came from, the institution you live in, your involvement in the Liberian conflict or anywhere in the society, even your criminal record. Everything was checked. Each individual record was checked not as a group but as a person. Thirdly, we put in place a system where it was non-interference. There was no political interference in the process by any person, including the minister of defense or the commanding chief or any person in government or in the public or private sector. Fifth, we then went across the entire country to recruit individuals so that you have a broad spectrum of all persons or all persuasions to come into the country. So with that background, it made it much easier for you to have an institution that was totally apolitical, one whose loyalty was definitely to the state, and one whose willingness to join the army was basically on the basis of the individual passing through a merit system. What it therefore meant was that each person coming into the new AFL would be coming as an individual on their own choice, willing to serve, that are coming on the order of merits. To add on to that, even after passing all of those process, there was a final certification, what we call the Joint Personal Board. It comprised the U.S. government, that was the lead international donor, the United Nations. It comprised civil society and of course the government which in each person were represented by one person. Three members of that committee had voting rights with the exception of the United Nations. So any majority from those three could send the entire process back to be reviewed. So that each person today that is in the armed force of Liberia had to be certified by that vetting process. And then the entire training began to take place. At the same time, on the police side, you saw what the United Nations also went into a recruiting drive, went through some process of vetting, went to a recruiting grab, but it became very, very difficult to have a full mass of high school graduates who were willing to join the Liberia National Police. You can remember that because of the civil war, people were highly in school. So therefore there was a lot of persons who had surpassed the age of going to school at that time, being in 18 and 35 years, were staying in 8 and 9 in 10th grade. And it was a need to accelerate that process. So what happened was there was a collaboration between the Liberia National Police, the United Nations, and the Minister of Education in the West African Examination Council, in which a three to six month program was designed by those who were now high school graduates. But at upon certification from that program, you could then go ahead and enter the Liberia National Police. On the other side, the Bureau of Immigration had already gone through the process of trying to restructure themselves, but did not have a lead partner. So that institution were on the wait-in, if I would see it on the wait-in lights. Therefore, you had the armed force of Liberia proceeding ahead on a little bit faster pace, guided by a country. You had the United Nations proceeding ahead with the Liberia National Police, but this time guided by an international organization. Well, the international organization doesn't have a police doctoring. So you had a combination of persons from different countries and different backgrounds, whether it is from country X or country Y or country Z. They may not have the same quality of the same methodology of policing. So that was the kind of element I was introduced into the Liberia National Police. So later on in the future, you can see the challenges that have been faced by the police today as compared to the armed force of Liberia. That was where a lead country like the United States took the lead process in helping to restructure the armed forces using its own trade dog, its training doctoring, to impart that into that. But the question is how do you then come over new leadership, a new command structure in the armed forces, when in fact you are already providing severance to all of your commanders, all of the officers, all of the NCO. The alternative would have been to just call someone who had been trained in the past. Well, what if that person, for example, had been fighting for one of the war infections? What if that person had his or her loyalty to an ethnic group or one of the groups that were fighting? Then you have to balance that with another person who was on the other divide. And you also have to balance that with another person. Eventually, if you were to follow that kind of process, that would have led to a complete collapse of the intent of the security sector reform. So the intent, therefore, was to put everybody through the vetting process and then bring someone who is pretty much neutral but trained that has some international credit that could bring international credibility to the process. So a decision was taken after consultation with regional and international partners to allow ECOWAS to take the lead process. And Nigeria in ECOWAS, therefore, took the lead and then nominated, we accepted the nomination of a Nigerian to serve as a chief of staff pending the new training process that will allow a Liberian over a period of time to then assume that full position of trust as the new chief of staff. But to support that process, we identified Liberians who probably meet those minimum standards. So about 200 persons were vetted from the OEFL. And out of the initial vetting process, 99 percent crossed the first step. And then a second and more in-depth process, 11 persons qualified. So it tells you the rigidity of that process that went to cut across the entire board. And in order for them to come back to the AFL, all of them had to go to command and general staff colleges because none of them had. The United States provided us opportunities to send them to command and general staff college. Nigeria provided that opportunity in order international partners did. So today, all of the old AFL who are senior personnel that have been brought back to the vetting process all went to complete their command and general staff college courses as the initial basis to come back to begin to assume command. So from there, from that group, one person was taken after going through a process and finally got nominated and confirmed by the Liberian Senate and became the deputy chief of staff. So you now have an armed force of Liberia that have gone through a vetting process in which there's a clear case for coming into the AFL, a pattern that have been set so that it's no longer based on an individual, politician like myself or anyone in government, but rather whoever comes to volunteer to want to enter the past through a rigid process. There are three key lessons from just the AFL side and that of the Liberian National Police and the Bureau of Immigration. The first is to clear willingness on a part of the government not to get involved in the recruiting process, but rather to allow a system is system driven process for the recruitment of individuals into the armed forces. The second thing is to have a broad based recruiting process that is clearly transparent that involve the local community that involve the rest of society in the final determination as to who they want into the recruiting process. And the third and most important is to have an international presence that bring credibility to that process, be it regional partners, institutional echoers or a country like the United States that have a doctrine. Having the United Nations to get involved in that process, I'm not to show that UN doesn't have a military doctrine, so I'm not quite sure you want to bring the UN into that kind of prayer, but they are a very key element in ensuring that there's transparency and there's no violation in individual rights in the process. On the side of the Liberian National Police, there was a clear difficulty because on a daily basis, there are law enforcement issues and law enforcement challenges that people face. You could not have disbanded that entire institution and start from scratch because criminals do not wait for police to come on. Criminals act and the police have to follow. So they therefore had to come over, make shift process, a process of illustration that will allow them to retain setting people within the institution and then at the same time, probably get rid of those that think they are exorcists and then see if they can inject new blood into the system. That was what happened to the Liberian National Police and that is ongoing, but the challenge of phase was that they needed a partner that had a doctrine, they needed a partner that had a clear system, they needed a partner that could build an institution, whereas the United Nations with all of the credibility and I believe they really have brought a lot of great work in getting the police to work, but definitely looking back and looking in future, you want to make sure that there is a lead partner in that process if you honor the guys of the United Nations. The clear example of the sources of that was that a lead partner in the United States came in and then went in and provided direct training to the emergency response unit that have now brought a good semblance of credibility to police response in our country. But were all of the institution properly reformed? No. The Bureau of Immigration is yet to be properly properly reformed because there's a need for a lead country. However, you have a partner who has provided funding for training, but yet you still have individuals that need to be to be to receive sufferings that are stay or that are staying in the institution. The next step therefore was then to allow the legal basis to now come and support all of this. So the emphasis of Liberia then went into a drive to make sure that a new defense act was crafted that would take into the that would take in consideration today's reality and at the same time provide a legal basis for moving forward. So in the august of 2008 the National Defense Act was finally passed and because that act has been passed we now have the legal basis to proceed even with the with the activation of the Liberian Coast Guard. We now have the basis to proceed with collaboration and signing of Memorandum of understanding with other countries such as Sierra Leone, such as Ghana, such as Rwanda, such as Benin, such as with the United States. So we have been able to sign it because we had a legal the legal basis to do that. But what then came about was that the government itself had to then tell the Liberian people what was considered to be Liberian national security interest. So in 2007 the National Security Strategy was was completed and released for the Liberian people at the basis for them to understand those things that have been identified as threats to the to the secretive second process. So we now have the National Security Strategy, we now have the National Defense Act. Next to that under the emphasis of Liberia is the the National Defense Strategy which has just the draft is now out. It is going to what we call a validation process, a process that will allow the involvement of civil society, a process that will allow the involvement of other thing things such as the governance commission, a process that will allow for individuals out in society scholars to look at what Liberia National Defense Strategy is and moving from there our intention is therefore proceed on the national on the national military strategy. If you take all of this then finally what you have therefore is that a country coming out of a country such as Liberia was faced with too many challenges in terms of resources which you didn't have. So you need a partner that will assist you with those resources. There are countries that are just emerging out of the world in Liberia in a region for an example that will need to look at that, that do they do not have the resources sources to begin to move ahead to take care of those. But what about those thousands and tens of thousands of young men and women who are demobilized? What do you do with them? So that is an option that one has to look at. So what did the government do? There was the National Commission on Disarmament Demobilization Rehabilitation and Reconstruction that was set up and that went through a process and over 100,000 persons were demobilized. Well but there's an Arab portion of that demobilization that needed to be considered but that required a lot of investment training to train these individuals employment opportunities and that is still needed to be completed if in fact you want an entire SSR process so actually to take hold. And that process I believe although it has ended in 2000 and started in 2003 and I think in 2009 there's still a need because there's still a residual case of that rehabilitation process and reintegration process that actually will be needed. If that one is a continuous one or else you're going to have a relapse of individuals who took part in the civil conflict. By these threats do you consider these 100,000 persons to be a threat? If in fact we consider them to be a threat to the investment that you have made it means there's a need for the international community and a need for the country itself to begin to relook at the whole Arab portion that reintegration portion out of two jobs to training to education to some form of empowerment so they can be able to to take care of themselves and their family in the in the entire process. Probably doing the question and answer I might be able to go into depth to help you to probably get a direct understanding if there are some specifics you would want me to to claim. So in that process we didn't have to identify what are those things that we consider to be internal threats? Well, you got a pool of 100 plus thousand former combatants that have no job. That is a potential. Is it imminent? What it depends on how you want to look at it but we believe it is a potential to address that the best option is to create an opportunity in an environment in which you have an investment that provides opportunity for them to be trained and also have jobs. Jobs would definitely serve as the best option for that individual to take care of himself to take care of his family and become productive to society. You also have the issue an opportunity for the movement of narcotics from one end of the world transit in true another point where coming out of a conflict environment there's a lot of vulnerability in that particular process. I think all of you are familiar with the case about two and a half, three years ago in which with the support of an international partner friends in particular a vessel was seized that was moving tons and tons of cocaine at a street value of half a billion dollars for a country whose budget at that time in 2006 were under 90 million dollars seizing a cocaine value of half a billion you can imagine what would have happened if they had been able to enter the society. So that is a potential problem that one has to look at and then of course because of a failed state you have individuals seizing and grabbing land to land become a possession so they can get property I mean so they can get wealth and because of that it is now considered to be a legacy of our conflict that is a residue for problems to arise is that an internal threat indefinitely do we do consider that to be an internal threat and the issue of ethnicity is always there it regardless of which African country you go to there's always that ethnic identification but to what extent it is prominent in a librarian case he hasn't yet manifested itself but it's always a potential because if you recall in 1980 in the years proceeding after that there was a lot of ethnic concerns particularly in those institutions of government that were existing at the time and finally intermere what we call external threats well our concern once again it's NACO trafficking international trafficking of drugs that have a way of fueling international terrorism we are very concerned about that illegal fishing in our waters there's a need for the Coast Guard that have been resuscitated and to come about in place to see if they can help the police to police our waters if you were to sum all of this process into one you can consider it to be a very huge investment by the international community and bringing peace and stability to Liberia a country that is very rich in minimal resources a country that has the potential of contributing to international trade a potential that even have driven US huge US companies such as Chevron an international company like B.H.P. Billiton a Cilla Metall to go into Liberia and the basis for going in was because of the investment potential but also the leadership that has been brought to the country and integrity it brings on a President's relief now what protected all of that was because the United Nation was engaged the international community was engaged in helping to bring peace to Liberia if that peace were to be shattered as a result of the conflict in the region obviously it will send shivers and trimbles around the reservoirs which means that all of us have a stick in ensuring that the conflict in La Côte d'Ivoire get the desired attention the needs it is extremely important that addressing that conflict is not only just a conflict itself in the human dimension that it brings but also the enormous investment that you have made in bringing peace to Liberia that investment that ensure that there's peace and stability and there's progress in the region a concern that has that have brought the United Nation to spend tens of millions of dollars and billions of dollars into the country so it is extremely important that in order to protect that investment we will make sure that the environment within which that investment is put is also secure so it doesn't mean that La Côte d'Ivoire should be left by itself no it shouldn't be left by itself should it want to be dealt with by ECOWAS again our answer is no it should not be only dealt by ECOWAS because it was not where ECOWAS blood and investment that was shared in Liberia but also international partners did that so it is it is incumbent upon all of us to look at the dire need for us to support the action of ECOWAS in calling upon the international community to support and urge in the United Nations Security Council to strengthen the resolution granted to the U.N. mission in La Côte d'Ivoire to ensure that peace and stability can be brought on to bear because the Côte d'Ivoire crisis have brought several issues that Liberia has to confront with first is the humanitarian crisis we have over 90,000 persons as reported by the United Nations that along the border of the 750 miles kilometers of our borders with La Côte d'Ivoire in a location where villages are struggling to live and women and children are trying to assess the mega resources that they have you have over 90,000 new friends and neighbors from across the border that have now crossed that is a huge impact on the resources and the persons that are in those regions secondly there's the law enforcement element as a result of that as a result of that kind of huge amount of pressure that have crossed criminals individuals involved in the trading of arms individuals interested in trying to fuel the conflict by benefiting from the kind of trade that take place in coffee and cocoa individuals who we believe that like to profit from war like in other places they call it blood diamonds in our case we're trying to draw your attention that we should not leave La Côte d'Ivoire to what it is today they deserve the attention of the international community and that attention will protect the investment that you have made in Liberia and that attention will make sure that those women that will kill the other day those civilians who are suffering the brunt in La Côte d'Ivoire can be protected Liberia stand very firmly in supporting the ECOWAS position Liberia stand very firmly in supporting what ECOWAS has decided and we believe it is in our best interest that international community to also come and support ECOWAS to urge the United Nations to take the appropriate stand as a desire in order to bring to bring peace but let me say this to you whatever happens in La Côte d'Ivoire whatever peace that bring in La Côte d'Ivoire Liberia stand to face it at all time why? I don't need on the humanitarian side I don't want a security element side on the issue of individuals who are traumatized as a result of the conflict and then come back into Liberia so either way we do there's an urgency here that we need to ensure that that threshold that benchmark we have set when you see that benchmark occurring it means we in the international community have not done far enough and that benchmark is when that lady or child at the border at the Liberian border begins to take the luggage and bags and little belongings that she or he have to put on her head and once again run it means we as a region and as an international community have not responded effectively in helping to stop and avert that child from once again running away so it is an urgent call for us to see what we can do to assist and help to bring peace to Liberia finally Liberia is doing all it all all it can to support the appeal of a course in the African Union to the United Nations to act with urgency in strengthening the UN mission in La Cote d'Ivoire in addition Liberia is doing all it can using its meager resources to cater in the best way possible to accommodate the growing number of refugees that are coming along as border to a very low budget Liberia is investing in providing security for those tens of thousands of people that have crossed we'll call upon the international community to come and assist not only in Liberia but to also support the urgent appeal by UN organs in providing funding to help to bring peace to Liberia I hope I will have provided you with some basis for discussions later on in the whole context of the security sector reform process that is taking place in Liberia and how to impact also and the sovereign conflict impact also on Liberia thank you very much now thank you very much your minister for that excellent overview we'll now have three discussions Bernadette Paolo will go first Mike Ritrik second and Jennifer Cook will wrap up Good afternoon Minister Sammukai fellow panelists ladies and gentlemen first of all I want to thank you Raymond Raymond Gilpin for organizing this and the United States Institute of Peace and of course Jennifer Cook and SICE this is a very timely and necessary discussion those of us who have studied Liberia for a very long time remember those 14 years of civil war and we're very grateful for the eight years of stability that we've seen and I want to commend you minister and the government of Liberia for that but Liberia's recovery is not over and the challenges on the eve of elections and in the face of more than according today to UNHCR and press reports of today 100,000 refugees are now in Liberia in Nimba County alone and so these security concerns that have been set forth by the minister have been exacerbated considerably I'm a member of Cote d'Ivoire watching we've been working for three months studying the situation in Cote d'Ivoire working with the Department of State with the subcommittee on Africa on the hill so I must tell you there's a great deal of frustration frustration because we feel that our government has worked really hard our president has sent all the right signals and the international community as well and the AU and ECOWAS and EU but president former president Bagbo shows no signs whatsoever of relenting just yesterday he wanted to impose a tax on cocoa to somehow safeguard his regime from sanctions that we're trying to level so it begs the question will a legitimate force and Africans have to lead this charge combined of ECOWAS the AU and the United Nations have to go into Cote d'Ivoire eventually it is nothing that we want to contemplate at this moment but as far as the current situation is concerned and how quickly the number of refugees are escalating in addition to the fact that there are now on the ground and Cote d'Ivoire itself over one million displaced people now with respect to security the minister has touched along on many of these points but unmanned the UN mission in Liberia has been in Liberia since 2003 and has increased its military and police presence at the Liberian Cote d'Ivoire border and and as the minister said it's 700 kilometers and dotted along that border are more than 70 villages in some of those villages presently there are more refugees than there are Liberians which poses a great problem there's a great concern about arms being taken into Liberia particularly in view of the Liberian government's efforts to disarm non-combatants according to the UN Security Council recently there are an estimated 2,000 Liberian former fighters associated with Ivorian militias who remain on the Liberian side of the border that's a potentially explosive situation with the upcoming elections especially there are concerns about Liberians feeling safe not only to register for those elections but to ultimately vote in them a recommendation here that was proffered by the minister in which we hardly support would be to engage more support financial and military assistance in coordination with the government of Liberia and UNMIL for both support with the troops as the special envoy from UNMIL said that the Pakistanis for example sent troops that were of great help to UNMIL in Liberia so this is really important for the future it's UNMIL is very much underfunded at the moment to give you an example with respect to security and the problems that they're having recently there was a report that said that President Johnson Sirleaf sent 20 members of the security forces to a village to try to monitor the stem the flow of refugees and try to disarm people and see what was coming in it was extremely difficult because it constituted her entire force for this particular region with respect to the humanitarian situation in total some 116,000 Ivorians have fled not only to Liberia which is a problem for the sub-region but to eight western countries since this post-election crisis started to started including Ghana and Togo Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso been in Nigeria Nigeria with the fewest amount to date and then despite the incredible hospitality of the Liberians and the aid of the Liberian Red Cross and the Government of Liberia UNHCR the World Food Program ICRC Doctors Without Borders and many other entities the populations access to help is very difficult particularly in their western region some health centers no longer function according to UNHCR lacking drugs and medical supplies medical staff have left and some of the hospitals have been looted medical structures are overwhelmingly affected by hygiene issues and the lack of safe water Liberia's medical supplies are overwhelmed as well there are only two hospitals in Nimbah now the number of refugees in Nimbah alone estimated $100,000 100,000 refugees as of today where both locals and refugees are being treated in addition to a few mobile clinics there are respiratory infections water diarrhea and malaria that are the biggest issues there are large numbers of refugees also in Grand Gede and Maryland counties in the past week alone 100,000 Liberians will be officially registered in this region that's all of the border of Liberia with 37,000 in Ghana and Togo there is an urgent need for more support from the international community to illustrate this point there was a UN Security Council report on February 14th in that report it addressed the humanitarian crisis and called for an action plan for Liberia and asked for 55 million dollars for the potential influx of refugees that number then was estimated at 50,000 that is doubled even before April when the most refugees were expected as far as implications for the regions with refugees now spilling over into several countries not including Liberia the threat code de Voile poses to stability and future prosperity and economic growth is huge in a recent Reuters release dated March 23rd President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf categorized the apparent dangers as a war she said and I quote we're already at war we hope there will be not be an escalation of war and she was referring here to the compendium of issues that these refugees represent this war is threatening peace investment and the well-being of the region in the face of the many other crises facing the international community it is important it is critical in fact that this matter does not become less relevant what were 320 deaths two weeks ago now approach nearly 500 deaths what were 79,000 refugees a week and a half ago is now estimated to be over 100,000 refugees while we hear over and over that this is an African problem that necessitates an African solution it is an international problem that necessitates the direct assistance of the international community writ large at a recent forum convened at Howard University by the Africa Society by Cote d'Ivoire Watch and by the Ralph Bunch Center I spoke with a close associate of Mr. Bogbo's afterwards and I was told by her that the fight has just begun that they will keep on fighting and that it will escalate the question I posed today is how much can librarians take how much can Liberians take West Africans and how much can Africa tolerate and what does this mean for the 17 other elections that are coming up in the near future it is a dangerous precedent that must not be allowed to stand one thing we can do with respect to this crisis because many people feel really frustrated is to find out how you can contribute to UNHCR doctors without borders very quickly and there is a resolution in the Congress HRA 85 that should be passed to show the solidarity of the United States Congress but the most important thing again is to keep this on the radar and to make sure that we do everything we can to make sure the President and what Tara assumes his role in the very near future thank you well thank you very much to USIP and thank you to CSIS Minister Samakai it's great to be back and to hear from you from your heart and for all other distinguished colleagues here this afternoon this is really an important opportunity not only to assess the near term challenges faced in the region from instability and a lack of governance and an inability to follow through on the elections that were properly held and a winner chosen in Cote d'Ivoire but also to step back for a moment and to consider where we are as an as an international community in supporting the vision of our Liberian partners at this key juncture in their history eight years after the comprehensive peace agreement was signed I think it's important after hearing Minister Samakai I've recognized that there's a clone you didn't know this but there's a clone in the Department of State for Minister Samakai actually has a clone and I want to introduce all of you to her this afternoon her name is Susan McCarty see if she'll stand up Susan very important to acknowledge her in this gathering Susan has been single-handedly responsible for providing a large measure of the United States Government support in close collaboration with colleagues from the Department of Defense and USAID I should acknowledge and also our corporations that work so well in providing this kind of support in these post-conflict circumstances soon as Susan has been responsible for overseeing over 200 million dollars of programming and that's been highly I think as per Minister Samakai's remarks has had some incredible impact and I just want to say good thank you Susan and acknowledge it publicly here I also want to say that it's a pleasure for me to be here to memorialize at this time because to consider where we are in and make this assessment at this time because this is a little bit of a history that maybe only I think Ambassador Blaney is the only person in this room who knows I actually was involved in the Liberia peace process back in 2003 while I was looking at my belly in my desk looking considering Sudan issues mostly they we got a call up to say you, we the United States Department of State need to engage in the reform effort and not the reform the the conflict ending efforts the conflict resolution efforts in Liberia and we need a team to go to Agbamoso Ghana in June and I was one of the members of the team that got to go and sit down during those negotiations the ECOWAS led negotiations African solutions clearly led by Africans and be able to as the United States providing its representation and supporting ECOWAS at that key juncture it was a pleasure for me to be able to do that and I'm thankful that how far we've come in eight years is totally completely amazing it's miraculous and I think we it bears much reflection here this afternoon and it's you know taking lessons from Sierra Leone which occurred remember 2000 2001 the terrible events in Freetown right there in our in our rear rear view mirror and sitting down at the table and looking at circumstances in and in in Monrovia and in NIMBA and Lofa counties and other parts of Liberia and considering where that what was happening then and looking and seeing what Sierra Leone looked at there was a lot of of focus and a real desire about the parties at that time to get serious most important of course in that negotiation was the engagement of civil society I think that again this was mostly the echelon led negotiation who brought civil society and president now president of Liberia in fact was one of the key individuals in those negotiations and without her influence without the involvement engagement of the women of Liberia without the involvement engagement of some of the other civil society actors we would not be where we are in terms of the evolution of the process here today and engaging and having an active civil society role in even the in in these peace negotiations is also key to their success it isn't just a matter of bringing the militaries you know the combatants leadership around the table and beating them into some common sense it's also important to engage and have robustly sitting around the table engagement by civil society we have been as noted providing a lot of support over the past several years and where we have learned a lot is that these programs must be holistic while it is easy simple I could say to equip and train a unit to conduct a mission on the police side as a beat cop or on the military side as a deployed infantry platoon it's a whole different ball game when it comes to developing institutions that can that can manage for the long haul and in this post-conflict dynamic we see if we've seen in Liberia it has been quite a real has been a real real challenge I think one of the key aspects of that um approach that was unique in Liberia that the minister mentioned bears reflection by all of us the decision to demobilize all of the combatants that was new different strange and for many a risky engagement because what do you do when you demobilize all of the combatants well there's a lot of your future leaders and so now as we reflect on that decision within the armed forces of Liberia to take that approach we have had to be very ingenious in ensuring that the senior level management of these structures can meet the requirements for dealing with human resources management logistics budget medical all of these systems develop a system of systems within Liberia for on the military side on one hand where there were where we're taking all the potential cadre off the market so to speak because we don't want the damaged goods of the past and when we try to project ahead without that human capital it can make for a difficult sort of development journey one of the things that has been cleverly thought through and working well with our partners here is ensuring technical support advisory support at multiple levels within the AFL minister scamakai mentioned echo was that contribution has been vital we also have been able that the United States has provided a certain amount of support and others have as well I should also note that in number of these areas it really hasn't been just the United States just the UN there's been other partners around the table and it's important to acknowledge that and to to understand and see even the case of the four major facilities that comprise the Armed Forces of Liberia include one three built and refurbished by the United States and one built refurbished by China okay so it's really got to be in these sort of in sort of these efforts it's got to be a multifaceted approach we will not succeed without it the challenges of development and are really right in our our perspective here every day and what I mean by that is that developing the talent you need to run complex systems cannot be done in a day and how do you manage internally the conflict mitigation challenges that you've got in Liberia and have it Liberian owned this is a key question we believe that in a number of places Nimba and Lofa counties for example Monrovia on certain days of the week it's difficult to see how you know it's how are we going to work through these crises increasingly we're seeing if you look at the perspective of 2003 to today Liberian ownership more and more is it the level that the Liberian people want at this stage maybe not not all the institutions are a holy Liberian owned but is that the direction clearly forecast and seen and are we seeing progress in that I think clearly the case is yes and we are going we the on our part on the US government side want to be able to apply the resources in the smartest possible way to fill those gaps and help a Liberia move forward one of the interesting things that we've thought through is dealing with the conflict mitigation channel channels you have in the short term some of the parts you know various areas dealing with those challenges all the same time ensuring that it's not only the UN that's called on to provide the support to answering those challenges one of the things we want to do is deal with community based leadership development we need alternative conflict resolution mechanisms and Liberian community leaders want to be able to be empowered to be able to sit around the table and bring various ethnic communities various yeah various groups around the table and be able to work through those one of the things that we're hoping to move forward on very quickly is a Department of Defense 1207 project to do alternative dispute resolution work in NIMBA and LOFA and give tools to our Liberian colleagues so that community leaders can be the first line of defense to mitigate challenges what's nothing worse than bringing the AFL out to be the hammer to deal with local issues first of all the as administrators said the hammer is not yet ready to be brought out to deal with those local issues even if you wanted to bring a hammer to deal with the local issues it really is the LNP and the Liberian National Police and of course we have also key institutions that have been supported by the international community the emergency response unit and as well as the PSU those elements have been and will be with increasing capability be the the non-hammer applied so community local based community alternative dispute resolution in a transition and transitioning justice systems that's the first line of defense in the conflict challenge and then increasingly the police one of the goals we have of course is to withdraw the UN forces that's a key benchmark of the success of our post-conflict demobilization and security system reform efforts and we on the international international community side see a good we've seen some withdrawal of UN but I think there's some hesitance to be able to go forward quickly as long as our Liberian partners don't have the complete wherewithal to to stand up all of their systems so that's a that's a work an effort in progress we also want to see greater cooperation regionally minister mentioned the need to think not just about code of law but also about Sierra Leone and and and Guinea Guinea has gone through incredible transformation in that country's history and it's vital that the Monterey River states at this stage in their their own national progress to be able to work increasingly together mentioned the immigration and naturalization service the bin the bureau in for immigration and naturalization that's that's they're gonna have an increased role in the future here so one last comment in terms of what the partners should be thinking about number one conflict mitigation efforts outside of Monroe are important it isn't just about Monrovia it's about other parts so if we look at history there's clearly been a need to focus on these all counties within within Liberia it also goes without saying that if you're resourcing security sector form and the U.S. is coming up with 200 million to support defense reform there may be some other entities that also deserve a little bit of support and for international partners clearly the LNP and SPU and PSU merit support as well and additional resources should be brought to bear to assist those professionalization and those professionalization efforts also of course assistance to the bin as I mentioned earlier and we're also looking at doing some conferences to help harmonize and strengthen Mono river work together and finally goes without saying without greater capital investment both domestic and foreign this is this is really where Liberia's future has to be it isn't about dealing with more tactical conflict mitigation steps where we're going to make our most progress in Liberia it's when we see 85% illiteracy turned into 25% illiteracy it's when we have jobs that are locally based it's when we have investments in that education and then and Liberian teachers training Liberian students it will be when we have agricultural inputs on the Liberian side that can address the need for livelihoods and not be all externally driven and then finally we do need more money for the roads please a few dollars that way is a great help and it also provides livelihoods for locals so one of the things that we've tried to do in our security sector reform efforts is employ and I think our contractors our private companies on the U.S. side have been faithful to this is employ the maximum extent possible our Liberian partners and not only employ them but then train them to run the systems themselves that's our approach and I appreciate and I'm expressing that publicly here to say I have to say that I appreciate that from some of our folks here that's all I have I don't really know if my remarks warrant the podium much of I think because of the way we're doing it okay okay well they're pretty great well thanks Raymond and fellow panelists and really thank you Minister Samakai it's just great to see you and here about the progress you've been making it's been a long hard road I imagine I was asked to talk a little bit about Liberia's internal security threats and perhaps the implications of Cote d'Ivoire but it seems a little rich to lecture the minister of defense so I thought I'd take a step back a little bit and some of the questions that the panel discussion raised for me that maybe you can begin to answer in question and answer and maybe they get elaborated in the discussion period one it strikes me the massive challenge of what Liberia has tried to undertake which is really security sector reform or security sector formation on the fly so coming out of civil war when you're faced with imminent security threats you know the aftermath of the war of the crisis in Cote d'Ivoire the idea as you said that you know criminals are not waiting for your security sector to be up and running and functional and that the decisions have to be made in a context where you need immediate results on certain things but you're also planning for the longer term also the fact that when you're coming out of that kind of a prolonged crisis pretty much any money is welcome and there's there's not a whole lot of opportunity to say you know we need a little more here and probably some of that could probably be used over there and I don't you know that's that's a problem of post-conflict reconstruction more broadly but I think again the idea that that you're trying to balance multiple funding flows against a huge raft of priorities is particularly difficult and an Ethiopian general told me you know what it is what you do today doesn't determine your military or your security forces of today or tomorrow it really determines your forces of 10 15 years from now and that kind of made me think in in this context we're talking about security sector reform for what or building security forces to what purpose is the is the objective to build kind of an all-purpose security sector that can that can respond to any eventuality or to or just build basic competence that hopefully you can you can expand over time or do you prioritize what what you're aiming for there's a number of imminent threats right now I think and and Bernadette outlined them I think that the Liberian defense force is not going to be prepared for to handle alone but what are you thinking five 15 10 15 years down the line as was the most likely threats that Liberia is going to be facing I wondered if you might elaborate perhaps in the discussion kind of what what the response is right now in terms of the implications of what's happening in Cote d'Ivoire obviously you have an unfolding humanitarian crisis massive refugee flows is this an opportunity for example to be kind of embedding these newly trained or in the midst of being training Liberian security forces with UN forces to on on crisis response and humanitarian response in a way that's kind of that's measured and kind of overseen and taken kind of within the umbrella of the UN presence right now the UN given budget constraints and you know the outlook for international donors is not going to be there forever it will likely leave before you want it to or before you feel fully prepared and and are there ways to take advantage of of that opportunity while it's there in terms of the imminent threats I think the possibility of reigniting some of the militia groups modell NPFL and do they play a role not only in Cote d'Ivoire but perhaps and I think this is the tragedy of the Cote d'Ivoire example in in perhaps destabilizing an an I mean sorry a Liberian election down the line the idea of a close election standoff say fought between the president and a close contender standoff is that a possibility that that worries you how I wonder if you might you're not going to want to comment on that specifically but I mean I think that's the kind of thing that the crisis in Cote d'Ivoire that the kind of precedent that it sets that's that's why in in large part this crisis is so so alarming so the border refugee issue and the election security issues these are kind of the near-term threats but what when you're looking out five 10 15 years from now one hopes that kind of the interstate conflict in this kind of Ivorian standoff becomes less of the norm I think there's been pretty genuine progress particularly in ECOWAS and NECOWAS's response is diplomatically and militarily over time in responding and pushing back to that kind of flagrant undermining of electoral processes what are the big challenges down the line that you see and is it is it a military or is the military forces you're building it now that's going to be most suited to that are there other aspects of the security sector you did mention the national police but when you think of the kind of conflicts that probably are most likely over the longer term conflict over land which you mentioned and communal violence the issue of vigilanteism emergency responses and and refugee flows food security and riots and Liberia has seen those the issue of narcotics that you mentioned illegal resource exploitation timber other other resources and I would say eventually you know Liberia will turn its eyes to the opportunities of kind of maritime security and so forth and and what are you building now in terms of those kind of longer range issues we have a project right now on police reform we're we're realizing how incredibly complex that is to do here in the United States I imagine it's no less the easy in in Liberia but you know are we getting the balance right in Liberia I guess that brings me to to my final point resources are finite you know it would be great to say more on police more on roads more on reintegration and job employment and income generation but you know there may be some efficiencies we can find and some greater resources we can find but at the end of the day you're gonna have to make tradeoffs and the U.S. well the donor community will have to make those tradeoffs and I think the Liberian government will have to make tradeoffs and I think that's that's one of the key challenges right now how do you set those priorities I'd say within the military do you want to be building specific capacities that are most relevant to Liberia within the security sector is the military or is it going to be a gendarmerie type force or is it going to be the police force that's most relevant to the security challenges that Liberia faces over time or is it across sectors look we're spending a lot on security sector reform are we really doing enough in terms of income generation and and reintegration where as you said the real source of of the many of the problems come I think you know that's an issue that every single country has to grapple with we're grappling it that our budget arguments in in congress right now but I think it's particularly important in a place that's that's very fragile that is still fairly heavily reliant on external external funding and really has to kind of set the priorities itself unless it wants to get battened about by you know the the fads and vagaries of international donors so my question to you is is Liberia getting the balance right is the international community getting the balance right and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that I'll I'll end there and turn it over to questions and answers thank you very much to the entire panel for those very insightful comments I think we've managed to and contextualize the challenges being faced by Liberia at this time and challenges they're likely to face five ten years hence and the question is the overarching question is to what extent has the reform process in Liberia security sector prepare the country to meet those challenges head on and make progress Jennifer has outlined and summarized the issues and brilliantly and before I invite the minister and probably some of the panelists to comment time is far spent so I'll also invite about three or four questions if you can make your questions as short and as directed as possible that would help and enable us to get enough food for thought for the panel to respond I think we have the lady here as the first there's a microphone coming please identify yourself and please make your question short Hi, I'm Cia Willie Howard University African Studies Program thank you minister Samka as well as those on the panel I want to thank you for your efforts and your sacrifices and serving Liberia but my question regards corruption accumulation as well as inequality that is breeding and its effect on national security obviously we know that with that forgiveness and so forth Liberia has accumulated much capital and liquidity that is needed to spearhead and move forward a lot of reconstructive reconstruction efforts however corruption is paramount is ubiquitous and how do you see that impacting state security thank you we'll take one for a gentleman here I'm William here from the University of the District of Columbia and honorable minister it's great to see you my classmate full bright classmate actually this morning I read a very alarming article and what it said George Weir said if in fact the chairman of the election commission was not changed what is happening in the Ivory Coast would be nothing compared to what will happen in Liberia and I think clearly what you purported in terms of the security sector reform how prepared are we and what are we going to do in terms of civil disobedience based on the number of ex-combatants that could potentially destabilize the system based on oppositional leadership I think this is extremely critical thank you hello I'm Daniel Levine from the University of Maryland School of Public Policy of course thank you very much for being here my question for the minister primarily is given how unusual the step of demobilizing more or less the entire security sector was in Liberia I'm curious after eight years of experience with this what implications you think the successes and failures of that model have for other kinds of SSR projects where integration of forces into the security sector has been part of the peace deal made Joel Burbank from the Fund for Peace I was wondering if there has been any consideration for how the voluntary principles on security and human rights might contribute to the security sector reform process in Liberia as has been been done in other countries such as Colombia okay I think we have quite it's all for you very challenging questions I don't know where to start from but if I will it does allow me to take you from Dr. James Tia Tapper an architect of the the Liberian peace process since 1990 he's sitting right in the back just when you see Dr. Tapper let me say that everything that has been axed are very important questions and I think answers may not necessarily satisfy you but I'd like you to see the reality from which we we are coming from what is the issue of corruption and inequality and its effect on national security what is the threat from any individual with regards to their desire to have some changes made in the elections commission what is the issue of demobilization of the security sector that have taken place or even the issue of voluntary security as an example by the local community one has to see the reality that decision-making phase when in the transition process it is much easier to state what you think when the responsibility of people's lives are not in your hands when it is when people's lives decision that they make affect them then one has to be very conscious on a decision on a decision taking let's take the example of corruption yes, corruption didn't start today on a depressing leadership of madame selif she has stated from day one that it was an endemic problem in the society there has to be a final way to resolve that problem there has to be a way to deal with the problem what are the steps that one would need to take to address those problems it's the first look at the issue of the rule of law strengthen the judicial system so that you can have the courts more relevant more independent to build a prosecute cases that come before the come before the courts what do you need to deal with the issue of corruption it will have system process and procedures and accountability mechanism put in place to make sure that you have them independent enough to be able to deal with the issue of corruption what do you need also to tackle corruption it will have an independent general accounting office that would deal with these with these kind of issues so you have a robust auditor general to be able to address those issues what do you need to put in place you need to have an anti-corruption commission that is independent enough to be able to deal with that now when you put all of this into place and individuals are taken to court and the court declines the person free we will actually to kindly give us an options after the court have taken a decision we'll be very glad to follow those examples because president Salif has been able to have individuals sent to court that need to be prosecuted with the evidence presented to the court overwhelming evidence and yet our jury system comes back and say well not guilty so I mean we will definitely be glad I will take it back to madam Salif I say coming from this panel these are the suggestions when the court say not guilty and I'm sure she'll be glad to to look to look into that but again when you then look at the system where you need to restructure the whole process look at the military here was the military with the constitution responsibility to protect the citizens well the entire military got somehow wrapped up in entire conflict you have the general who left the army and went to form his own his own unit you have a corner who left to go form his own unit you have individuals from Yahoo who want to go form his own unit everybody got brawled into the entire conflict what should we do how do we then investigate each individual person of the 10,000 plus persons in the armed forces the best alternative was then we leave them there does it solve the problem no it doesn't but how do you then take an individual out what will be the rationale of doing that so the best thing was to put a system in place that said okay here you are if you want to come back fine but these are the processes that you have to follow first you must be a high school graduate of a YX certificate in order to join the army second if you want to become an officer you might have a college degree third you must be able to show that you passed a diagnostic test you must be physically fit you might have a medical certificate these are all broad requirements and criteria in every profession and military around the world and of crucial importance is a complete buying by civil society and the local population how do you get civil society and local population involved is to put their names on a bulletin board out there in the community go to the community and ask them this is the phone number call this number if you have any derogatory information on any one of these individuals and that was what like we read it give everybody the chance and opportunity not how fast you can shoot or how big a gun you can handle so that was how come those who didn't meet the criteria under the vetting process did not get selected do we have former AFF personnel in the new armed forces today the answer is yes do we have persons who took up arms in the Liberian conflict the answer is yes I did it from all walks of life the answer is yes but yet these individuals met all of the criteria in order for them to be selected criteria that was judged by the international community criteria that was judged by the international partner in the US judged by ECOWAS judged by the United Nations judged by civil society I do not believe that those actions taken would have been any different from anywhere where there was a need for secret sector reform to take place so that was the basis upon which that happened in the AFF and more besides the military as a matter of fact was not needed at that time where you could say you need conscript to go to the battle front to fight whereas on the issue of law enforcement crimes take place every day incidents take place every day the traffic violation on a daily basis so there had to be an institution there had to be some person that one has to rely upon as imperfect as it may be but you need a law enforcement person to be out on the street that should give you the time to allow you to go through a reform process of the police institution and that is exactly what we are heading towards at this point in time Voluntary security we have the community wash teams community wash team that's in different communities in which as a matter of fact there's a radio program that comes in at midnight and people call in whenever there's a secret incident people call about what is happening in your community and that provides an alert for the police to respond now we need to work on their response times yes we need to make sure that they have the means to communicate of course we need to the ability to get down time we definitely need them to do that for them to have the way with all like Mike mentioned the PSG the police support unit yes we need to have them capable to be able to to do that but how we'll respond to individuals who want to state demonstration are trying violence that is something we have to learn have person been trained yes Nigeria trained about 200 of those individuals are they being supported yes the United States have come out now to support the police support unit in the Liberia National Police where there's a graduate response to incident instead of using lethal weapons so we have individuals that are now trained on riot and crowd control and how to engage are they experts no will they need to learn yes will there be mistakes along the way absolutely there will be but we have to learn from those mistakes so we are not showering away from being willing to learn neither are we saying that we are experts now we are simply saying we are working and gradually improving on the program that have been set to make sure that we have a very good environment heading to elections in October or sometime later on this year so I hope I was able to answer some of these questions but I want you to kindly see where decisions that we make affects the process say for an example if we were to wait in 2005 when Ambassador Blaney and others were there and say you know what let's wait with the secretive sector reform until we can passport the laws you know how long it takes to pass the law it's no different in Liberia so you would have had a band of people running around and it would have had no chance to do that so we had to take some immediate steps so those are the steps that were taken at the time and I hope you know those steps can be built upon and Madam Sully, Madam President is very very conscious of these issues she's very seized of them and she takes them very seriously she talks about it on a regular and on a daily basis are the steps to be to be taken but granted that you have the authority as an independent person on the as the auditor general for an example I think one has a moral responsibility to respect the high office of the president so you may have been reading some stuff in the in the wire in the newspapers one has to recognize your limits even here in the United States one cannot just get up and make a statement and write something against your boss and your commandant chief in a way and actions ticking and then you say something he's a very competent individual he knows exactly his work but also one has a responsibility I think we are running out of time do we have time for two or three final questions maybe just two we had the gentleman at the back whose hand was up mine is has to do with our recourse and how the international community is deford is leading to regional crisis the international community does not vote but the result of the abracal vote is presented as if the international community has decided they won Mr. Watara and so Mr. Watara you must have who says that there are two institutions that were part of their voting process the national independent national election commission and the constitutional council the commission does they wake up they fought work to get the votes done and they present their report to the council which is the government's body for making final decisions but I couldn't report some of us have received the election commission man was taken to one hotel where Mr. Watara was and declared him president so the constitutional man who's supposed to be making the final decision and say well we've got one president in the america or it's one on this side and then we balance it what are the issues the issue basically is to now go back and look at the institutional formation of these organizations and do an assessment of each and establish and commission of international elders experts eminent people to look in detail because the issue is not whether Babo becomes or remains president or Watara remains president because the conflict in Africa after years of slavery colonialism neo-colonialism is to work for unity and development we cannot sit back and say we are going to fight war in Africa over whether Watara would be president or Babo would be president there are two insignificant people the people of Africa of course have to be brought together and that kind of approach we can give more ideas to it thank you all right I think we'll take probably all right if you promise to make it 30 seconds there and there we'll have two quick questions if not a roundup okay sir 30 seconds okay good afternoon Lieutenant Colonel Wyatt Mr. Samakai's questions for you the you've touched on something that's very astute that I think was largely is missed by a lot of people not talked about a great deal using the phrase possession is nine tenths of law one of the biggest challenges for Liberia and I'm hoping you could just briefly elaborate on progress is land tenure possession is nine tenths of law that is all too common a process in Liberia if you occupy you own it and that's going to be a very explosive issue as time goes forward we're talking about Liberia 10 or 15 years from now so if you could elaborate on that success or progress thank you okay I think we'll have the panel round up and I'll give each panelist one minute i.e. 60 seconds to respond to any or as many of the comments that they've heard and then the final word we'll go to the minister we'll start with you Jennifer and walk our way down oh my I guess I'll respond briefly on Cote d'Ivoire and we can talk about the institutional legitimacy issues after the panel but it's a country coming out of conflict in which the international community including ECOWAS was given an explicit role and a country coming out of conflict to a certain extent gives up an element of its sovereignty and Bagbo signed on to that when he signed the Wagadugu peace agreement and the Pretoria peace agreement to allow the UN and ECOWAS to play a critical role in certifying the results and certifying the process as free and legitimate and I think I mean it's there I think that we have to be paying more attention I mean I think Cote d'Ivoire is an instance where we have to be paying attention not just to elections but to the many issues that lead up to elections there are many moments in that peace accord in terms of demobilization that Cote d'Ivoire still gonna have to contend with at some point identity and so forth that the international community kind of turned a blind eye to and then when the election came and it's in the rubber hits the road we're at a loss for the mechanisms to resolve this so that's what I'd say on that and just wrap up there Okay, Mike? Yeah, I'll continue on the Cote d'Ivoire theme because it's appropriate in this forum to discuss this and it does have immediate impact on our view of how the security systems are coming together in Liberia We have the international community made very clear that there are a number of principles that have to be adhered to in this process the election commission did its work it certified the United Nations the African Union and ECOWAS with ECOWAS and the clear lead as noted that these were legitimately conducted and the results were what the results were they recently the AU high level panel even gave another additional stamp of approval to the process and has judged what are to be the president legitimately elected in Cote d'Ivoire that it's end of the discussion at this stage we really need to go to a process that has to be holistic I think to answer your point the in what our administration needs to be reaching out across the spectra in Cote d'Ivoire to ensure that not just the north southerners and other across the spectrum are addressed in terms of his administration of the presidency and the way forward in Cote d'Ivoire and that will be the best interest of Liberia and the other states of Africa I think that Michael and Jennifer have made the case for Cote d'Ivoire in a very eloquent way I would just like to add one thing I mean when you see the humanitarian impact of this whether Mr. Bogbo feels that he's been robbed or not what has happened to the people that he was supposed to have governed is something that none of us can ignore and nor can he and so I think that it is in everyone's interest for the situation to be resolved as quickly as possible and I would hope then that his colleagues in the African Union and ECOWAS can prevail upon him to come to some sort of peaceful solution as quickly as possible well let me express my thanks and appreciation for this opportunity to have been able to share with you the topic on a discussion and to thank the Raymond and his colleagues for inviting us today I will hope that you will recognize that a reform process a secret sector reform process in Liberia is still ongoing it is still incomplete it still needs to go ahead and continue its team because there are many challenges now and more to come late to the issue of land it is still a very serious issue the president of the Set up a Land Commission she has done some different kinds of mediation efforts involve intervention efforts and hopefully they will try to mitigate some of these concerns Liberia stand ready to continue to support the ECOWAS position and we do recognize the constraint that we have in meeting about our own internal security challenges particularly at a point where our borders are very poor for us and it's very challenging for us to be able to police the entire borders unless we get the counter international support that is needed whatever resolution that is required to bring peace to La Cote d'Ivoire needs to be done sooner then later thank you I think the panel has been has given us a lot of food for thought not all our questions have been answered one outstanding question is looking forward how do we know we are making progress and one of the questioner has mentioned the voluntary principles for security sector reform we need to start thinking about benchmarks that will let us know that Liberia is on the right road is on the right road and that security sector reform is closely aligned not just with national integrity issues but national development issues and I think that those issues that will continue to concern us and engage us the broadest of regional issues not just Cote d'Ivoire but Liberia Sierra Leone are on the front burner they should remain on the front burner but I think that as we look at security reform in a particular country I think it is really wise and prudent to think about its broader implications not just in terms of overspill issues but also in terms of what we could learn from Liberia to apply elsewhere well once more John mean thanking CSIS for co-hosting with us thanking CSIS staff and USIP staff for supporting this event thanking KRL for being really strong backbone join me in thanking the panel and thank you for coming