 Hi everyone, I think we'll get started. I know we have a number of people online. I think these are the panelists only not all of the participants. So there are others who will be watching in. I think we're also recording this session. So if you're going to speak, we are doing a recording and just want to make you aware of that. I think our intention today is to bring everybody together for the first time since the more public announcement to have a conversation. Invite newcomers to the conversation who have not been previously aware of this, not because we didn't want to invite anyone but simply because we just concentric circles reaching out to people who were introduced to us at various times by others and so this is our more public announcement with an intention to form an open wallet foundation later this year ideally and get this off the ground. What I want to do is make sure that we're not excluding anyone as we lead up to that. And in the process of doing this formation want to make sure that everybody has an option to participate in the conversation and what we're building together. There needs to be a lot of interest in this area and a lot of opinions, and that is not uncommon and open source. We deal with that all the time. But I think our challenge over the next few weeks is to coordinate what is sort of that minimum viable foundation that we can all work towards together, the core of what everybody really needs out of this. Interesting ideas that people have opinions people have or views of how certain things should work. And I just encourage everybody let's try to focus on that area where we can find common ground right now and get a starting point going. It's open source so contributions are more than welcome. I think one of the things we are also trying to identify is what contributions of engineering talents code bases and things are expected to be coming. There was some various debates have been going on about whether you know we should be funding a central development team or have a central coordination team around the development effort or some way to assist in to getting a core engine out there as fast as possible that's viable for people to use and build all of us from if you miss Daniel's keynote this morning I thought it was on point and on message about this is about building a wallet engine. This is not the fire fox wallets so we're not anticipating to be a wallet service provider or managing a wallet infrastructure for this. But if other organizations are going to be spinning up wallets and everybody's going to be doing the exact same technical work effort and architectural discussions and everything else. Why not do it together. It's have an open conversation about it building over the core that all of you can build your own solutions and products from or services. We have governments involved who are very interested in this we have private companies we have many different sectors from airlines banking financial services. Hell codes. I mean, gaming. I'm going to be talking to our gaming team a few weeks. So there's a number of different potential use cases, then you get into practical use cases like automotive companies are already dealing with these challenges with digital car keys and things like that and how do we enable them to work in an open model with us on this so that I hope to not have to say much today. I think it's more about all of you coming to consensus together and with that Daniel has brought us all together in a way I think many of us have been connected to Daniel. We're on the panel. But now that we're opening this up to a broader conversation, I think it's it's time that we start to push this into more of a community conversation. I don't think he will take the lead here but I don't think he views himself as the leader of this by any means and just a fire starter to get the conversation going. Thank you, Mike. We camouflage this as a panel discussion, but what this really is is a marketing and advertising event. We're trying to convince you to join. That's really why we're here. The people on the panel. And I discuss, you know what the question should be we have I think 40 minutes in total. You know five of which already elapsed. We are 15 people. So we're left with 15 people and 35 minutes. And I want to focus on one primary question today, which is, why are you here. What excites you about the one wallet foundation. And why should other people potentially as excited as we are part of this. I try to go over maybe everyone here alphabetically I think Alan, you are the first and I hope I will not screw up. And if other people you know I see some of my my heroes Brian you're you're here you're not officially part of the panel but if anyone wants to say something who has something to say about other industries, feel free to join in. This is very much the spirit in which we're here. This is not about, you know, a small group, having backdoor or back channel conversations, it's about bringing different people from different industries together, bringing the private sector and public sector together to hopefully create secure interoperable multipurpose wallets. So with that, Ellen, I'm over here. Oh, no worries. Everybody had a seat. My name is Alan Bachman. I'm a identity practitioner and research architect. And I think, you know, this is an important movement I'm excited to be here at the announcement that I think it was the pregnancy. As it was stated, and I think this will spur a lot of innovation and happy that it's going through the open source. Thank you. Andrew, I think you're next and a special thank you because it is in the middle of your night. That's the kind of commitment the open wallet foundation requires so before you commit. Look at Andrew look at Juliana. This is what is expected from you. You know, it's, it's the beginning of the morning, I think over here on the west coast of North America. Hi, I'm Andrew Hughes, director of identity standards that's paying identity. And not sure how many know but things being around for over 20 years now. And open standards open source it's it's in our DNA. And our, our early and mid and late identions as we call ourselves have worked on contributed implemented debated standardization for communications, identity interoperability. All the way through. We've got a proportionally large standards team for the size of company. In the, in the identity interconnection standard space as many of you know. It's an exciting time. You know, we've, we've watched the, the digital credentials world start to wake up over the last, let's call it five years. Early attempts, lead into learnings, which we build on. And that's where we are. I think we've really tried to take a look at the entire environment landscape of what needs to happen for a successful digital credentials world. Where people are an actual part of it, not just holders, not just agents, but actual people. Corporations can do what they need to do governments can do what they need to do. It comes down to the infrastructure at the end of the day. And one of the critical pieces is the wallet, the wallet agent. Without that. You can't scale it, probably. You would rely on each individual to do their own tiny thing, and it would be hard to connect everyone up. So, we're really putting our, our attention to the wallets and the open wall of foundation. And, you know, we're, we're proud to be a part of it. It continues on with the, the direction that ping has supporting the open standards and as much as possible the open source world. And let's get that common toolkit out into place that we can specialize on things we specialize in. And really looking forward to contributing. Thank you. Thank you. I think you're next and everyone who's not on West Coast time three minutes tops please exception for the people who are joining from the West Coast. Thanks Daniel. I'm Bryn Robinson Morgan, my work at Mastercard within our digital identity business. We're building a globally interoperable network for digital identity. So digital wallets on new, in fact, the most popular ones have been around for over a decade now. So why is the mission of the open wallet foundation important. Well, as we move towards web three, where digital credentials will be fundamental to how we interact and engage with products, services, and each other. Wallets will become a critical component of the functioning of the web, just as browsers are today. At Mastercard, we lead on digital trust through our engagements at Trust over IP ID 2020 and many other industry bodies. And we commit to these communities because they drive innovation and interoperability. And this in turn supports our mission for convenient smart and secure ways to interact in the digital age. An open engine as the foundation for digital wallets has the potential to accelerate the shift to a more equitable privacy enhancing and secure web architecture. And that's why we're here today. Thank you very much, Bryn. We are lucky to have four credit card schemes involved in the discussions. So if you're hearing this and you are working at the fifth that is not part of it, please do consider do consider joining this this effort. If I jump over someone, you know, please do make yourself heard I think David, you are next alphabetically. I, I, I anticipated needing to build on others because we I don't want us to be difficult. So Brent, I loved your comments in the previous comments that are wonderful. If I if I try to add a new facet to it, I think, you know, the feedback that we get in our work with clients around the world is the extension, sorry, Dave treat from Accenture is the world's largest technical technology services company kind of pure play services in our work with partners, platform providers are clients around the world the feedback that we're getting is we're envisioning the digital future that we're moving towards. You know, we just have tremendous hope and excitement around the business model change, right, that the ability to simultaneously enable us as individuals to be able to navigate the digital world in an even better way that we navigate the physical world with something like this, where we can have the portability and and lovable effective usage of our identity money and objects as we move from place to place to place is just completely congruent with the direction of travel of I think all of the societal input the regulatory, you know, the regulatory direction and the like. And so to be able to help drive that forward and change the nature of what a winning digital business is from one that can revolution itself to harvest data that is, you know, has been sold and resold and, you know, and we've we've all lost control over and suffer from the privacy and security dimensions of to a world where the winning digital business is the one that can earn the most trusted access to the data that we're individually controlling and on on, you know, on our terms of how long we share what with whom and the ability to revoke it is just massively powerful. And so we couldn't couldn't see it as more foundational to the digital future. David Drummond, I think you're next. I'm drum Marine director of fresh services at a vast, probably best known to many of you as an antivirus company just announced its murder with northern life lock, but the major new thrust of the combined company is digital and it's actually very easy to explain why a vast is a core supporter of this new initiative. A vast mission is to enable and protect digital freedom for every person on this planet. And with the rise of decentralized identity and verifiable credentials, the locus of control of our digital lives as you just heard from from David and the other speakers is going to become not one digital wallet but a set of digital wallets that's the big difference between this that we carry one of how many of us run our entire digitalized one device, right. So we need digital wallets that will operate across all of our devices that will maintain those cryptographic keys maintain those credentials that we're going to use to control that life. We therefore do not need just wallet interoperability. We need wallet portability full complete portability of our digital wallets. An individual needs to be able to take them anywhere. Use them on any device, any operating system, any app or service that they want anytime anywhere for life, just like they can do with this. Okay. That is why we need a world class digital wallet engine that ensures that interoperability and portability is built in, and you will be able to move across all the devices and vendors that you need, and that no vendor no matter how big or powerful will be able to control your digital life by locking you into a proprietary wallet. And that's simple a vast supports formation the open wallet foundation and we intend to be a very active contributor and the development and the, you know, selection of standards and the advocacy, because we support digital freedom and we invite every one of you to do that. Thanks. Thank you drum and and you know so far I think we did not have a single bad open wallet day but if we ever have one I'll think back on our conversation in Denver. And to me it was such an inspiration to, you know, see how you responded to the original idea and it's great, great to have you here. Judith, I think you're next. Thank you first I want to thank you for bringing us all together you're a master at bringing the various groups together. I want to say apologies to all the people who are behind me. And to these but I'm going to face the screen for all those people that are out on the internet and my friends right seat here as common speakers. I am Judith Flaner I am the director of strategic engagement for the trust over IP foundation, and the trust IP foundation is a foundation to create a robust set of standards that are interoperable and scale level for the digital layer of trust at the internet. So within our architecture which has both all the the technical components, compared and paired with the governance that's required because we know technology alone does not do it, it has to be paired with governance. This open wallet foundation so fits into our mission, because within the technology stack, there are a million components that have to be in play for that to happen. So one of the component specs that that needs to get developed and written is one for wallets and the engine behind that. One of the things about trust over IP is we partner with all the other foundations whether it be the decentralized identity foundation. I seem to hear from. Oh, I X and my friends from, you know, whether it be Fido or open ID, we work together and we try to look at what is it that we at our foundation does special from another foundation and let that other foundation do what their best at what their mission is to do. And so from an open from my trust over IP foundation standpoint. This is just a foundation that's going to do one of the component pieces that fits in to our full interoperable stack and we couldn't be more delighted to work with our friends and other foundations. And I see our steering committee members on this screen and in the room. So we're just excited. Thanks for pulling us together. Thank you very much, Judith. I think Juliana you are next and again a special thank you to you and to Andrew for being here at such an early hour. Thanks Daniel and thanks for for having me here and grateful to have the opportunity. My name is Juliana Catholic and I am on the identity standards team at Microsoft. And I'm going to tee off of what German started with which is physical wallets are trusted. They're simple. They're accessible. And they provide holders with both control and choice. And they are a physical integration point for multiple credentials. And that wallet does not care if it holds a driver's license or as a Canadian ticket to a hockey game. Ultimately, a digital wallet needs to do the same. But digital wallets are tough. They're tough things to architect and build well. And when you factor in interoperability, evolving standards frameworks policy regulations, while at the same time trying to enable trust simplicity, equitable access control and choice. It becomes a monumental task that only a few can take on. And open wallet can help. It can help a lot. It can provide a common core that enables, pardon me, interoperable secure exchanges that align with the standards under the frameworks for policy and governance. And it can also be the integration point for digital identity and support a plurality of wallets that enable the deployment deployment of digital services at scale. And that's a really important thing that we are missing right now. Beyond that, however, there's another really important benefit to an open wallet. By providing the tools to simplify the effort for wallet development, we can reduce the complexity and risk, as well as the cost to a broader group of service providers. And that is going to foster innovation. Thanks for having me here. Thank you very much. Hello. Thanks Daniel. It's great to be here with a room of so many friends and new people we forget to meet. So my name's clear young I co founded the internet identity workshop in 2005 and I've been working on user centric identity for almost 20 years. I'm here to help the initiative work for everyone and not just a small group of companies. I think we have a lot of perspectives to hear from and listen to. And we need to really support all the different groups and really a broad range of stakeholders that have come together to understand what their needs are why they're asking for certain features and standards and things and really find a way to build alignment early on. In the first go, not everybody's going to get what they want. Because we got to ship a product but I think we need to build trust enough trust that we, we trust each other to keep collaborating together. And I also want to specifically call out the need to really engage with civil society. And with organizations who are doing advocacy in the digital rights space, and those even not necessarily in the digital rights space who are on the ground working with people globally. So I hope that those perspectives can be invited in sooner rather than later, and that we can really build a solid foundation for open digital wallets for everyone. Thank you. Marie, I think you're next. Great. Well, thank you for inviting and getting us together, Daniel. My name is Marie Elstino. I'm heading off digital identity at MISA. Very pleased to meet you here. As you can see that wallets have a significant impact on payments, and of course on digital identity services as well. And I just, I'm expecting that that's going to increase in importance. The wallets, they are convenient, highly flexible, secure, they give a great user experience for payments. So you can say I'm a little bit single minded, but we already see the impact on services to make it much easier to buy and to pay for goods and services. In my view, it's very new to consumers, the payment providers, the merchant, the whole ecosystem, and I'm not talking just about wallets for payment, but of course everything else that we have talked about, that they have a choice of wallets. This leads to innovation, to efficiencies. And of course we talked already about the improbability and about the ability to use secure wallets across cloud platforms and operating systems. So, we are very interested by this open source initiative. I look at it as being in a very good position to encourage global interoperability with existing wallets and new initiatives as well such as the EU identity wallets as being specified by the European Commission in the IDAS 2.0, as well as all the standards around like the mobile driving license, digital travel credentials and so forth. So we're very much looking forward to the future to contribute in whatever way we can. And the outcomes. So, again, thank you Dana for bringing us together. It's a great initiative. Thank you Marie. And I think you are mentioning something really important, especially for the people here in Europe, which is the EU reference wallet. I'm not sure if I'm saying something that is confidential. You know, by saying that three of the consortia that are part of the EU reference wallet are also part of the Open Wallet Foundation discussion. And I very much hope that, you know, whoever is going to be picked for the reference wallet, we will incorporate code for the EU reference. We will incorporate code hopefully for a lot of other jurisdictions outside of the European Union to end up with something that we take for granted today, whether we take our driver's license or our passport today to Tokyo or to, you know, China or to Russia, wherever we go. My Swiss driving license, my Austrian passport is being recognized and I think that's exactly where we need to get going. Hello, I'm Johnny Devalainen from CSC Finland, I've been following the EU. Hello, Johnny Devalainen from CSC Finland, I've been following the EU self sovereign identity wallet development. And there's been a bunch of back and forth between Italian, German and TBV, they have a proposal stage ongoing, different suggestions on what kind of use cases will there be, there's a suggestion about ISO standard 18013-5 among others and then which was completed in September and there's an extension of that for online business as well. There's interest in open source implementation and that's the case in that front. And it's going onward, onward. So I believe the first reference implementation is scheduled for fourth quarter this year and it will iterate from that. But as these identities are relevant for governments and business and research and whatnot, so knowing the identity and the viable transactions and at the stations that you are, who you are, you have this license, you have this permit to use these research materials for this period of time. That all comes into play. Very interesting to see what you're doing. Thank you very much. Nat, I think you are next. All right, so thank you very much for inviting me here and putting all this together. It's a lot of work and I really appreciate your old sport. I'm Nat Sakimura, the chairman of the board of the OpenID Foundation. We are a global open standard organization that creates open identity technical protocols. And as the name suggests, we really value the openness. We welcome the formation of OpenWallet Foundation and its efforts to create an open source implementation of open and interoperable technical standards, certification and best practices. It's critical to enable people to start their identity wherever they choose. And that goes together with our mission statement. So we're really looking forward to its development. Thank you very much, Nat. You know, one of the reasons why I think it's so important that Nat is here and Judith is here and Drummond, wherever you are now, over here, not just as a representative of Norton LifeLock and Avast, but a steering board member of Trust Over IP and we have other people here from Trust Over IP as well is one of the misconceptions about the OpenWallet Foundation is that this is a standardization organization and we are not. We are standing on the shoulders of giants who are standardization organizations. We will not be a better or a different if or open ID foundation or Trust Over IP foundation. These standards are at the heart of what we're doing. And in order to succeed, we need standards, but we are not a standardization organization. So thank you very much for being here. Nick, talking about standards on to you. Nick, you're on mute. Yes, it's a good boy. Thank you, Daniel. And I'd like to thank you personally for convening this for your inspiration or leadership as you did with Gain, leading us all to collaborate and create something of absolute global use and necessity. We can't thank you enough for that. For the short, Chief Identity Strategist at the Open Identity Exchange, and we're all about interoperability and we operate at the policy level, not the technical level. So we're about the rules, not the tools of how we make digital identity a success around the globe. We have four principles when we talk about digital identity, choice, convenience, control and confidence, and the Open Wallet Foundation is helping bring those principles to life. Choice with a plurality of wallets in the market, wallets that aren't fettered to the user's operating system. Convenience because I can put lots of different credentials within the wallet and use them wherever I wish. Control because they're mine and they are managed by the user and all of that leads to confidence in using the wallet and using digital identity around the globe. We believe OAX to be successful in digital identity. We need smart wallets and OWF will enable a market of smart wallets to emerge and smart wallet is something that works on behalf of the user. It enables them to collect credentials together and it helps to deal with complex requests. Are you over 18 which might not sound complex but it is. Are you fit to fly? Are you COVID safe? Are you able to work in my regulatory environment? Can you open a bank account? The rules around these things are too complex for users to understand. A smart wallet needs to help the user through that process. We see that only by being smart will wallets be successful and the components that would see OWF building would be key to enabling that smart wallet ecosystem and key to that is interoperability. So we're working with our members and six trust frameworks from across the globe describing the policy, the metadata about a trust framework. So that can be shared across trust frameworks and can be published by a trust framework into a wallet. So the wallet can seamlessly move from framework to framework. I want my wallet that's maybe based in the UK. If I come to Ireland or get Singapore or the US, it should still work. It should adapt dynamically to the rules of the new trust framework based on the policy descriptions that are published by that trust framework. And that's what we're working on at the moment and we would expect that to manifest in open source components for policy access, policy interpretation, policy request from relying parties and policy management from users that would sit around a wallet that would enable the wallet to be dynamic as it moves from place to place. And that's what we see. And yet to the most point earlier, these things need to be portable and they need to work around the globe seamlessly. We're delighted to be working with the other organizations around the table here and at OWF we'd like to welcome this new arrival. I think it's pregnant at the moment and we anticipate its birth eminently. And at that point would welcome its arrival into this family of open initiatives that are collaborating to make this this global vision possible. Thank you. Thank you, Nick. It's great to have not for profit companies being involved. It's great to have for profit companies I think on our last call we had over $2.5 trillion worth of public companies join the call and I think this is really critical and key for success. I also believe that it is equally important to have people involved who are close to governments and to actually have successes under their belt when it comes to digital public goods. And two of my personal heroes in that regard are on the call today promote you're one of them and I think you're next. Thank you Daniels pleasure to be here and wonderful to see the energy and the birth of open world foundation congratulations to all of you. My name is promote I'm the chief architect of India's identity program that has covered 1.3 billion people, and also India's digital credentialing and data empowerment. I'm sort of known as India stack, you know, set of stuff that we have been doing and my partner in crime is here, Sanjay. But, and I'll be letting speak from the market perspective but I'll speak from societal perspective, because that's what I've been doing in the last two 1213 years, and India specifically focused on ensuring identity and data and credentials are in the control of billion and this is it was fundamental into our digital opening up our digital economy. And these are not concepts anymore. India does a billion digital authentications every month, 6 billion, you know payment transactions every month. And so we have been in the last five years or six years dramatically shift the underlying societal, you know, ability of hundreds of millions of people to participate in formal systems. And that's almost always missed out when, you know, many of you may not be exposed to that kind of volumes of people and the diversity that India faces. But for us, the top of the pyramid, the 10 percentage of India, which is about 100 million people is really all of us, and that's not enough at all. So we need millions of individuals and SMEs to be brought into the formal system. And that's the reason we have been fundamentally focusing on identity, personal data and credentialing, and all in the hands of people now in the hands of people in India does not mean smartphone. We also be very, very cognizant of an inclusive infrastructure digital infrastructure. And specifically today why I'm an excited the moment Daniel talked about that said, must do probably couple of years late, but let's do it right. It's very, very key and India specifically did something called busy locker, and that currently covers 7 billion digital credentials in the wallet in the locker. And we have, we had to create our own standards and move on with it. Many times, because of we were actually implementing it standards were not ready and an example was COVID vaccination COVID vaccination. So India's issued 2 billion vaccination credential, all based on W3C and WHO standard, but we really have no interoperable wallet in play and we really have no portability in play globally, and we still are challenged, challenged by silly reasons, frankly. I am very, very excited about the possibility of this engine. I think that's a very, very good setup for you, an engine that ensures portability and interoperability, but various solutioning can be laid on top of it because we need multi lingual multi model solutions to emerge. But the core engine can be provided by an open source community, very, very powerful. We need it right now. So please jump in the pool and participate and build it. I can promise you, Indians will put 100 billion credentials in the next two years, 100 billion. So I can promise you numbers. Okay, I can promise you numbers, but we really need your help. So please go ahead and do it. Happy to provide everything we do here in my, at least from my side, whether it's, you know, sunbird and the extra foundation, we have credentialing infrastructure, open source issuance infrastructure. Everything is open source. So we are heavily into open source digital public good building that so happy to contribute in every way we can. We have no much money though, Daniel, so we are all volunteers and not for profit efforts so but I can contribute my brain so happy to contribute. Okay, thank you so much. All the best. I've got a brain that is from odd. You know, I love how you and and your friends in India are keeping us honest. We were on this call a couple of weeks ago, where we have a call about you know credential formats and it was literally a one of the, the architects of a trillion dollar company on the phone with someone who said yes, I understand about zero knowledge proves but how are we going to do this if all you have is a piece of paper and the qr code, or if all you have is a feature phone that is shared by eight people that belong to the same family what are we going to do then. So that kind of conversations I think we need to have if we want inclusive digital identity, and if we want to have inclusive wallet systems. So thank you for keeping us honest to not just talking about inclusivity but actually thinking through. And as clear you said you know it's going to take us time will need to start with a couple of stacks. But I think the ambition of everyone here is to really be helpful to as many people as possible in as many countries as possible for as many use cases as possible. That's I think the benchmark. And that's what we need to achieve. If we want this to be even more than an interesting, an interesting opportunity so you mentioned your partner in crime I think your partner in crime is also next alphabetically Sanjay the floor is yours. Thank you Daniel thank you promote for that exciting promise of a billion people 100 billion credentials. And today here I'm actually going to talk more about the work we are doing for identity around the world I am representing most of which is the modular open source platform, and we are currently helping countries developed national IDs. And one of the things that is very exciting for us is that we're already thinking about issuing an ID document as a verifiable credential. And the moment we can put it into a wallet with selective disclosure that actually brings in a whole bunch of use cases. We're already live in two countries. One ID is already people already registered for the ID. And we have nine more countries in the pipeline so by end of next day we'll have in the 500 million people that you will be able to bring on to the system with digital digital national IDs issued as very verifiable credentials. And we will be looking for use cases. Let's be sure of that. In use cases of your own banking around travel around payments, and so on. And so I think there's very exciting for us to see how the work that you're doing at the bottom of the pyramid is actually converging and merging with the work that's being done for the developed economies and it's really all one. And that's really something that we never expected to encounter so soon. And what I'm glad we are and I think we will be able to bring about a billion and a half people into this system fairly soon. So let's get ready for that. Thank you very much. Mike, I'm not sure we are two minutes over but if the Linux Foundation is giving us a few more minutes. Do we have anything in here next. I think it's a break lunch break lunch. Oh, is there anything happens. You can go a third one. Yeah, okay. If we have a few minutes, Brian, I would like to put you on the spot because you and Jerry are the first two open source heroes that I actually met in person. And maybe you can say something about, you know, why, why open source why. Why should we use open source technology. I didn't expect to speak. Thank you for that. I was drafting here ideas and as people were mentioning them I was crossing them out so why don't want to start with we are late to this game. We're about 20 years late in 1998, the source all years right so 140 years in. In 1998 the Mozilla source code was released partly based on a fortuitous and happenstance conversation between Jim Barksdale and Eric Raymond's that almost didn't happen at a time when Netscape's business model was just about to crash. So it almost didn't happen and had it not happened. I doubt we would have had an open web we would have had to to maybe three different things different webs that would have been as different as the windows desktop and the Apple laptop. At the time in the mid 90s. And even though the Firefox market share, you know, climbed at one point to be 60 ish percent I think, and is now down to much lower numbers, it still is a useful force out there for getting other browser makers to converge on common standards and not just enough usage of it there's still the moral leadership and having had a platform for turning, not just standards that were good ideas and thoughtful things into consumer software and a rapid basis not only was that a great, a great thing there was a moral leadership that came from being able to say let's think about the end users needs centered on them and start to introduce things like blocking of pop ups, which were a thing in the early, you know time that people hated, but the browser makers and advertisers left it etc, and that it became you know blocking more of kind of the surveillance capitalism kind of stuff so having having a platform like this is really good to centered on the users needs to turn the emergence emerging standards into things that actually have an impact for I think, especially for the consumer side. And it was something that we lacked when about a year ago, many of us here were working on over the last couple years Kobe credentials came up with some gorgeous specifications for it building on top of a lot of pre existing code and had some successes but also a lot of struggles actually getting that out into the end user community and getting it accepted and standardized by governments of the world, because of a lack of an efficient vehicle and efficient platform for getting this out there I think though that raised a lot of the issues that might have served as seeds for the open web foundation and hopefully the open wallet foundation hopefully this will be one of the first wins for for us is bringing healthcare data into the space I don't know if Garry's still here. Hey, might even be able to speak to that if we have time. I do also just want to say two more things. One is, I know a lot of the focus has been on payment rails and on digital identities and self sovereign ID in particular. I think it's a really important thing to get out there and there's some great starting points. I believe your foundation has been working on this kind of technology for a while and has you won't be able you won't need to start from scratch is the good news. There's more lots of work to do on top of this, but it's a great starting point, but I would encourage you not to ignore digital assets as a network native digital assets, call them cryptos if you need to, or like, and that's obviously, you know on the down at a low point right now and in the cycle, but there is something there in terms of how the next gen of the web evolves and identity is central to that connecting these is essential, especially as it gets normalized, regulated KYC comes in. Actually tying this all together is going to be an important thing. The second point I'd make is don't ignore the security the centrality of security into the system. This is a bug a log for J style bug in this software, it will lead to real losses of actual real assets that may be hard to recover, or losses of keys tied to your identity is that having to reboot you know your educational credentials let alone other things would be just a massive mistake so where there are resources to spend to help the ecosystem. So spending those on everything from third party audits to signing infrastructure to just other things that you can do to harden that and lead people to trust that core is going to be a great thing to do early on in the life cycle of this to build up that public confidence in what you're building. So, with all that I'm incredibly enthusiastic the right set of partners are here. I'm convinced that all the other right partners are going to come on very quickly. I can't wait to follow and see where this goes. So thank you. Thank you very much Brian I realize we're keeping people from their from their lunch. So thank you again for for joining. Thank you, especially to those who joined at four o'clock in the morning. I received a signal message from someone who was trying to get into this room and said that he heard that the room was full. So, this is my pledge, and I think probably the pledge of a lot of people here. We will try not to have full rooms we will try not to have messages I hated that message when a party in Austria said the boat is full. We want you to be here we pledge to try to keep making rooms bigger finding bigger venues or bigger rooms to have a tent that works for everyone who's interested in open interoperable secure multi purpose benefits. If you're interested in payments if you're interested in digital identity if you're interested in wallets and you hope for a future where these wallets are not just a few but where a lot of wallets are blossom. Please join the open wallet foundation. Find us after this panel email info at open wallet dot foundation. We want to hear from you, and we really look forward to working with you. Yes, so we are we are coordinating with everybody we have contact information for so as Daniel said info at open wallet down that foundation or the one the open wallet website. And there's a form there we brought the form that will get the ability to add you to our groups lists and things like that that we're setting up for everything so if you're not part of that, please submit and help us connect with you so we know the follow up. Thank you.