 Hi and welcome to School of Hostile, I'm your host Sarah and this is the show where we chat with everyday entrepreneurs about everything that goes into starting a new venture. New York City is known for modern, high-end and chic everything from fashion to furniture and today's guest knows a lot about that as the owner of four furniture stores in the city. Nikki Chang is the co-founder of Caligaris NYC, a furniture and lifestyle design shop with four New York locations. Caligaris is a 97 year old Italian brand headquartered in Italy that offers high quality and sophisticated luxury furniture at an affordable price point. Nikki, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you? I'm good. Are you calling us from Caligaris location in New York? Yes, I'm actually at my 18th street location in Chelsea. What was the first brand that you founded or that you bought? So, okay, let's start there. In 2003, we opened our first store, Wish Is About Concept, and that was 17 years ago. So we opened our first store on 30th and Madison. And at that time, you know how that street is Furniture Street right now on 30th to 34th. We are the first store there. Wow, so you kind of started that district really. It used to be a carpet, rocks. And now it's furniture. It's furniture because yeah, we started it first. We got that space. Trend setters. By chance, by luck. We live on 32nd and Madison. We used to live there. And at that time that was the only rent that we could afford. The building who decided to rent it to us at a very low price is because they probably saw potential from us and believed in us. And we had a good 10 year there, 10 years total. And then at that point, did you open other locations or did you move out of that store? We opened location through that. And I think two years after the first store, we have our second store on 18th Street, which is this one. And in, I think by 2012, we have nine stores. I lost count, but. Wow, must be nice. It's just no balling because, you know, once you get one going, it is really just copy and paste. But a little did we know the bigger it gets the last connection we have with our staff. Right. Because you can't be everywhere. It's impossible. Yeah. And I remember we used to have a store on Long Island. And, and before I went there was before I was pregnant with my son. And I remember bringing my son to the store when he was a couple months old. And then, and then they asked me when was the last time you were here. And I just recently and then I thought, oh my God, it's more than a year ago. Wow. You know, so it's time flies when you're busy expanding your business so fast. So at that point, did you own Kelly Kelly garris? Or it was it only. So. Come in. So let's like go chronologically here. Oh, you started with bow concept in 2017. We gave up the concept. Okay. And did you own. Did you own any of Kelly garris at that point? No, they didn't allow us. Oh, okay. So it was really just bow concept for the first 15 years. Yeah, basically my, my career is really both concept. Gotcha. That's what people really see me. Okay. And did you name bow concept? Is that fully a brand you started from a complete scratch? Both concepts is a, is a, is a brand from Denmark. And so how did you do that? Did you reach out to them? Was this kind of like a franchise situation? When I first came here, right? I was, I, I, I was a coach at, and I was a waitress. And I, like many New Yorkers, we just started. Well, the worst is I hardly speak English. So that was like, yeah, it was, it was, it was very difficult because, you know, you know, if you work as a coach at, you don't really have to talk. Yeah. So if you, if you, if you know the, the menu in a restaurant, well enough, you just have to memorize the menu, you know, like you really don't have to talk. Right. Basic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, at that time, this is like over 20 years ago, you know, when you make $200 cash a day is a lot of money. You know, and, and I was like, Oh my God, you know, but, but then back home in Malaysia, I have architecture degree and, and I came here for a year in to go to person for interior design. So then even after that, even, you know, I have no problem reading or understanding people telling me, you know, when they're speaking in English, but I have problem communicating. Yeah. And I didn't know until I got fired in a restaurant industry. Because when you talk to real people, you're like, I can, I don't know. You know, like, you know, I don't know what to say. I know what I want to say, but I just couldn't do it, you know, like I just couldn't communicate. So then I went to burrow for English classes. I literally got fired in a restaurant because I was a bad waitress. And you know what, it's important to know your strengths and your strengths are in furniture. So you're really succeeding there. When I decided to look for a real job, right? I went to many interior design firms, but no one really, no one hired me. Why do you think that is because of the language barrier? I think it's a mix of language barrier. And also I didn't have the experience. So I, I, at that time I was dating my husband and he, he lived on 32nd and Madison and he goes, why don't you sell furniture on 30th and Park. And I said, oh my God, this is beneath me. I, this is, you know, interior designer architect do not sell furniture. Oh yeah. And he goes, yeah. And he goes, but you just got fired in a restaurant. Right. And I'm like, well, you're right. So then I walked into the interview. I just walk into a furniture store on 30th and Park at that time. And I walked in and I had my portfolio and I was confident and I look good. And I, I didn't set up an interview. I just walked in and I saw my ex boss and I said, looking for a job. And he goes, we didn't say much. And he goes, you're hired. Wow. And I'm like, you don't want to look at my resume or my portfolio. He goes, no, you're pretty. Wow. I was so mad. Yeah. Cause it's like, I have so much experience. It's more than just how I look. I get, I totally get it. I was like, no, he didn't say that. Yeah. Right. So then he was like, by the way. You know, I, um, you can call it a job, but it's, uh, it's all commissioned. You have no base. You get 5% of whatever you sell. I was like, this guy is really something. Okay. So I, yes, it was so crazy. I was like, but I had no choice. You know, it's either that or. Right. Or not have any money really. Yeah. Because at that time I already went to many interviews that, you know, like no one hired me. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to give this a try. Yeah. So I asked him how much do people sell monthly? You have three staff right now, your furniture is crap. Uh, the selection is just not making sense, but how much do people sell a month? So he told me around 60,000 to 100,000 a month. So I figured 5% of that is 3000 and up a month. That is more than working in a restaurant. So then I'm like, huh, the first month I did 60,000. Wow. Yeah. First time ever doing this with. Yes. This is a 90, uh, 2009. No, no, 1999. Wow. So I, uh, and then the second month I did over 100,000. Wow. So I'm like, you know what? This is so easy. It's easy because you're good at it. I think you have really good taste and you were able to like direct people with what, what vision they had for their apartment really easily. And that's why you have such beautiful collections today. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So, but, but, you know, he, he taught me a lot, you know, he says, you know, like, you know, how to sell, how to like, um, uh, communicating with, with, with, with customers, walking customers, how to, you know, um, upsell. There's a lot of things that he helped me. And so at what point did you realize why am I working for someone else? I should just do this myself. Well, that's came in when I realized what New York city is lacking. Uh, like I, I sold from catalogs, even though we, we changed a lot in the, in the, oh, in the showroom and I, I realized that this is early 2000, right? There is no, um, modern furniture store that is meat price range in New York city, zero. Where do they buy furniture? Right? And they're in the late, like mid 20s, 30s, and that group of people, meat price range, modern furniture was lacking in New York city. Who would have thought? Right? So then I found, um, a bold concept in a magazine, Metropolitan home. The sofa was a thousand and up, you know, we've, we've like really good looks and all that. And, and, you know, I, at that time when we first opened the store, it was, it was hard because the logistics was a mess up because they were very young as a franchise and we were very young as a franchise. Um, um, and everything was making Europe and it takes four months to get delivery. And, you know, it's many, many challenges at the beginning of the journey to when we started Bo concept. So this was in 2003, you open Bo concept and at what point did you open the next location of Bo concept? Like how quick was that process? Two years. Okay. And eventually you said you got to nine locations by 2017. Seven stores by the time we switch from Caligar, from both concept to Caligaris. So the reason you stopped working with both concepts in Manhattan at least was just because they didn't allow you to carry other brands besides Bo concept. Right. That was one of the reasons. Another reason is logistic issues. Um, and, um, uh, they moved their logistic, um, um, warehouse the best. Um, we're not able to stop as much. So those two issues are things that you addressed in the furniture stores that you opened after that fact, right? Yes. Yes. Um, yeah, but, you know, um, but then we realized that, um, um, retail furniture industry have many challenges. And some of the challenges share them. I mean, obviously delivery. I mean, waiting time is the biggest challenge. Right. And because now, you know, um, Caligaris is the great brand to work with. The, the, uh, the quality is great. Um, But then there's, I have many competitors now switching brand in my late in my 40s is actually harder than starting a new brand in my twenties. And why do you think that is? I think we didn't think that, um, people buy brands. We thought people just buy furniture. We kept our location and really switched the brand almost overnight. Gotcha. You went from concept to Caligaris. Yeah. Because the, because people walk in and say, um, why is this so different? So we, we would try to convince them this is better, higher quality made in Italy, but people still don't. They, you know, it's hard to convince people on something they have already know. So it took us, it really took us three years to relaunch before the pandemic in, uh, uh, February this year, we finally hit our goal and reach what I really want to, you know, achieve, but then, um, pandemic happened in March. Right. So, um, And how have you guys been dealing with that a lot? Almost every business I've spoken to on school apostle has, has experienced a decrease in sales. Uh, of various levels. Um, and it's been really challenging. Have you experienced, um, similar, similar? Um, yes and no, uh, in, in many ways, um, uh, selling higher end brand. Mm hmm. Save us. Really? Yeah. I feel like rich people just continue to be rich. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about your marketing strategy that you've been using since Kelly Garis isn't as well known as both concept? We, we hardly advertise. It's really worth a mouth. It's, uh, and when you think about it, um, in the furniture industry in New York city, it's only a few big players. And to be honest, we are probably the only mom and pop shop. And that's so special having that element because people really do want to buy, uh, from mom and pop shops to support them, especially during this time. Yeah, that's my, uh, that's why that's the line I used to close sales. You know, like I would say, you know, I would give them my cell number to like, you know, text me if there's any problem with the deliveries that like, you know, people who work with me, they have been with me for over 10 years. You know, my delivery team has been with me. So it sounds like you're a extremely talented salesperson. Would you mind giving some tips for the listeners and viewers out there on how to be an amazing salesperson? Cause what you just said right there, I think goes the extra mile and that's a great example. Well, first of all, thank you. I own it. So, uh, I want to say, you know, throughout all these years of, uh, being in a furniture industry, um, I want to say, you not just selling, I want to say everything you do, you do it from your heart. Like you really mean it. You know, you gain trust from a customer when you really mean it. Like, um, you know, when a customer show me a floor plan, I can easily start them to buy the most expensive sofa or the biggest sofa in the living room, but I would not do that. I would make sure that the space work for them, not based on my sales number, because that to me is more important than anything. Because when you think about it, more than half your life is your home. Imagine buying the wrong sofa and you stuck with it for 10 years. I know I have the wrong sofa. So we're going to have to talk about that later. I hate it so much. I tried to get rid of it in the last move. Anyway, go on with your story. I always tell my customer and my staff, I even tell my staff, you know, don't sell, don't try to sell the most expensive piece just to fulfill your sales goal, you know, sell the, the right product that fit the customer's lifestyle. Because at the end of the day, when they trust you, you really sell the whole house, the whole home. They come to you when they move. They come to you when they have a second home. They come to you when their mom buy a place, the sister buy a place, the neighbor. So that's really the biggest, this really my sales technique to gain trust from people and to do everything from, you know, from your heart. Like you really mean it. Same with cooking, same with practice yoga, same with raising kids, you know, you can just do it just to do it. You do it just because you mean it. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what anyone that is a great business person, a great sales person does when I, when I think about it, it's just about establishing trust with your customer and your clients. I heard that you work with your husband. Is that true? Yes, yes. And what is it like working with your husband? Well, a lot of people thought, there are a lot of people think that is really hard. But, but it's not because we do different things. He managed, he manages the logistics, the back office, money related part of the business. And I deal with showroom, staff, sales, the front end of the business. Gotcha. So you are kind of separated. But on a daily basis, do you communicate about the business as well? Well, I'm not going to lie. The beginning is hard. You know, we, we, we fall over little things until we define, you know, the fine language in the business where I take care of this and he takes care of that. And I, I don't ask or get into what he does. I don't ask for the detail. I really don't. And maybe because of that, he also doesn't ask me. Gotcha. And I guess we, we trust that he's not going to do anything crazy. And I, and I won't. And then our intention and our goal is the same, you know, goal is to sell a lot of furniture, you know, and, and with the same goal with just different work, you know. Right. And that helps keep your relationship intact, both in a family way, but also in a business way. Yeah. We're good friends, you know, is that there's a, there is a great dynamic between the both of us. That's his strength, you know, like managing customer service or logistic, that's his strength. I can't do that, you know, the business, the business does not work without one of us. So it goes hand in hand. So I'm curious, do you have a favorite piece of furniture that you have in your home that you're just like, this is the best thing I've ever purchased or found? To be honest, no. I bet your home is beautiful. I'm so curious, like what your home looks like. It's probably the nicest home in New York City. Well, if I tell you, you will laugh. And I actually, everything I have at home is customer return. No way. Because you can't sell it anymore, right? It's either floor model that has been around for too long. Or I have a, I live in a loft, we live in a loft. So I have a lot of space. So then, or either the sofa is too big. I mean, we generate sales out of it in the showroom and when people order it, they order smaller. So a bigger piece will not fit in most Manhattan apartment or the color is not right or the configuration is not right. And I have an open floor plan. So I would have a gigantic sofa. But I would expect every once in a while, someone who's looking for a gigantic sofa, I'll sell it off my floor. You've provided so much interesting history advice, storytelling today. I want to know if there's one piece of advice that you would give to entrepreneurs. What would that be? Go with your guts. Do it. You have to do it. Yes. Because you don't want to regret that you didn't do it. What's worse that happened if you didn't do it? You regret, right? And what's really, what happened if you didn't do it? What happened if you did it and it didn't succeed? You just go back to where you were. Wish is not bad. Exactly. See, if I started, if my first story didn't work, I go work for my ex-boss again. Wish I had fun. And from there, I can probably work at other high-end furniture stores or consult for other brands. Wish is not bad. I can always say I started a business and it didn't work. Right? It's an experience. So it's been wonderful having you on the show, Nikki. Thank you for joining us. And thanks to everyone who tuned in today. If you want to learn more about Nikki's businesses, you can visit kalligarrisnyc.com, kainrichusa.com and mcollection-home.com. And be sure to follow Nikki on Instagram at Nikki Chang 55. So that is all for this edition of School of Hustle. Keep up with all of our episodes on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you stream and download podcasts. And if you like what you heard, please leave a review, share with your friends and subscribe to our show. We'll see you next time. Bye.