 Well, to take a further look at the situation, we're now being joined by Colonel Hassan Sani Labo, a security expert. Good evening, Colonel Labo. Alright, we also have the Kaduna State Khan Chairman Reverend Joseph Hayab. And at some point, a brother to two of the victims named Gideon. Oh, Gideon, how are you doing now? Hi, good evening. Sorry about your loss. What happened to your brothers? I understand that two of your brothers are victims of this attack. Yes. On Monday, I have two brothers on the train. By the names Jesse, John, Mahmouda and Gaius Gambo. Jesse is the one in charge of the food on the train. He sells the food on the train and Gaius is his brother. So that's a full day. As usual, they go and come back. But unfortunately, I was on the train going to Abuja and they were on the one coming back for Kaduna. And when we crossed at Gideon, I called them and I was like, okay, you guys see tomorrow in the morning. So before we got to Kuwait, the CSO of the train called me to one side and he was like, I'm here, something is wrong about the other train. I should try as much as possible to reach my brother. So on doing that, I tried his number, it wasn't connecting. I tried my other brother. His number two was not connecting. So I tried other people that I know on the train. None of them, their number were not connecting. So I called a cleaner that works on the train. Then he told me he was not on the train because he was dropped by 2 p.m. And I was like, what really happened? He said the truth is the train was attacked. So this is what happened according to the evidence that I got. He said when the bomb exploded, the train derailed. After derailment, the bandits were shooting sporadically from different areas. And they entered into the first class. Their concern was just the first class. And unfortunately, my brothers were all in the first class. The other lady that was part of the lady that works for my brother, her name is Anna. She took, usually he normally compiles reports before he drops. So she was in the first class with him, giving him the book for him to compile the report. And when the attack happened, he packed all of them. According to someone, someone, one of the guys that hit in the toilet, he had them saying that we saw him, we saw them with the feet. You understand that they were time conscious. They went to achieve what they wanted to achieve and leave immediately. So they took my brother and they left with them. So we've been trying to get to them, reach to them. Yesterday, my uncles went to all the hospitals to confirm they are not dead. And yes, they were not. So later today, in the early hours of the day, my brother's boss got a call. And it was Luan behind my brother, Jesse, that was talking. And we got the proof of life call. And they, behind all of them, they are all okay. Where are they right now? Where are they right now? They are in the bush. They are in the bush with, I call them the big boys. They are in the bush with the big boys. Yeah, they are in the bush. We have not had anything from them yet. Optuna was so open and waiting. Okay, so they have been kidnapped? They have been kidnapped. Have you heard any word from the government regarding this? The state government or the military or the federal government? Any words of assurances or information regarding the situation? They only, they are the phone lines to call. I was able to call one of the phone lines and high up, I think. There's someone who picked you was like, we should be patient that they are doing all they can. They are actually the ones that directed me to go to the hospital to check in case if they are injured or they are dead. So up until now, I have not had anything from anyone yet. Okay. Do I have Konohasan now on? I wonder if I have Konohasan, the security expert on. Okay, it looks like he's not yet connected to us. But let me go to you, Reverend Joseph Hayab. Thank you very much. Yes, Reverend Joseph. It's such a such situation that we are finding ourselves in. Are members of your communities among the victims this time around? Anything that happens to Kaduna happens to members of my community because I'm the leader of the Christian community in Kaduna state, not in Kaduna town, in the whole of Kaduna state. And from the information I'm getting, it seems the particular boys they are talking about are very close to me, but I didn't even know. Are you of the Ugangboma Moda's family? Yes. We still have your parents in Kano? Yes. Yes, you're correct. You're correct. So they are very dear to me. I've known your family as far as 1987. So we've been very close. These young boys have come to me in life for so many things that I didn't know they are even victims. If not now that I'm on this program, and I'm getting to know that this thing is even beyond what I'm talking about. Earlier today I spoke to one of our very promising young man who is even contesting for the senator. He was also in the train. He got shot. The fact that they removed the bullet in Kaduna but he had to move to Abuja so that he would get proper medical treatment. So there are a lot of people that were involved in the victims of that, that are either related to me as church members or related to me as Christians or related to me as Southern Kaduna people or related to me as Kaduna state people. And most importantly, every other person in that train is a human being. When you talk about whether I know they are my people, I'm a leader for everybody and I pray for the community. The many self-transportation, Mr. Rotimi Amechi had revealed that there are no rail tracks, there are no security for the rail tracks. He had sought to get some sort of necessary digital security and crime prevention equipment but it was not approved. How do you respond to that coming at this time? If you've been following the trends of events in Nigeria you will know that the focus of those people in power is about money, not about us. If not because this unfortunate incident happened and happened publicly, the fact of always that the story you would have been hearing is different because a government or a leader seems to like telling terrible lies or telling stories that cannot be substantiated instead of talking about human lives. One of the statements he's been credited to have said is about the amount that he lost because of this, or this bandit attack. Not even the lives in the bush, not even the lives that have died, not even those who are in the hospital. So sometimes when we dissipate energy and begin to analyze them, it hurts us. So why don't we just talk about how to find a solution about those who are already in the hands of the bandit and those who are sick and committed to them with the families that are. That's why I issued a statement to them and I said Kaduna has become an everyday morning centre. Every morning you wake up, if there is no killing in southern Kaduna there will be killing in Gewa, there will be killing in Bredengwari, there will be killing in Chukun, there will be killing in other places. Which is very sad. Right now we've been joined by the security expert, Colonel Stan Labo. Hello, Colonel Labo. Good evening, Colonel Labo. Okay, please bring us up to speed. There seems to be... Good evening. Can you hear me? Do we know of any arrests right now of the fleeing terrorists? Do we know of any arrests? Do we know of any arrests? Has any arrests been made? Well, like it is, I think, not to my knowledge, not to the knowledge of the public, but I think the security agencies will be in a better position as a matter of fact. Alright, so let me ask you this next question which has been on the lips of many people. What is wrong with Nigeria's security architecture? Our military have been known to have gallantly contributed to global security. Why are they having so much challenges doing the same thing at home, here in Nigeria? What is wrong? We seem to be having a bit of technical glitches with this particular line. Okay, let me come back to you, Reverend Hayab. You are a religious leader, and you do not have a political power authority to do much for your people. What options do you have for self-help in such a time that we have found ourselves, especially in your zone? Business is not a one-man business. And security is not completely about the use of force. Security is about people. Security is about information. Security is about intelligent guidance. Security is about tearing up people to be willing to say what they see or what they know. I think we have lost that in Kaduna. People are not willing to say what they know. People are not willing to say what they are suspected because either they don't trust the system or they are afraid for their lives and so many other reasons. I think what governments supposed to deliberately do is to connect with the people, to relate with the people, to win the trust of the people so that the people can talk to her. The people can tell her what is going on. I'm sorry that I'm going to say this. One of the things I keep seeing every day in Nigeria in the last 10 years, if not more, is the concentration of security work is about guarding some VIPs. Everybody wants to join the SSS so that you'll be posted to villa or government house to guard VIPs. Everybody wants to be in the military or in the police or in the Navy just to be a guard to one VIP. It's not about securing the people. It's not about securing the nation. It's about being a guard to one VIP so that the people come there and they will show up and push them away. Unfortunately, the real places that people supposed to be secured, the real places that governments supposed to deploy security agencies are having less attention. And so sometimes, I have said this on this medium that have you seen our banks? If we have 400 banks in Kaduna that likely means that we have about 400 to 800 policemen guarding those banks which we have no business for them to guard the banks. All the banks need to do is to employ their own security men bring them to police college to be trained by police and provide for them equipment or arms to guard their banks and allow the police that are being paid with taxpayer money to secure Nigerians to protect Nigerian rules to protect Nigerian rates to protect Nigerian airport, unfortunately that's not. And you know, whether we like it or not the truth is that the people who are posted to bank are being, the bank gratify either the commissioner or some big men out there and they are not doing the job that they were employed to do for Nigeria. Well, the president has just met with the service chiefs and has directed immediate implementation of surveillance system. Does it surprise you that this is coming at this time? Especially since the use of drugs. If I have been around for these years that I am involved I know that every time when we have this kind of crisis there will be a meeting between the president and the service chief and there will be an instruction. The truth is that how many of those instructions have actually been followed. I am fully aware in this government that the president even ordered the general police to be in a particular state when people were being came. He never went there and there was no reprimanding or no step taken by government and the president and commander ordered that you should be here and you do not go. So sometimes these meetings are just probably to draw attention within the time that everybody is angry and after some time everything will freeze out. Until we begin to be honest to security strategy honest to security deployment honest with the way we carry out issue of security we will keep having this thing because the criminal seems to be if you read my first statement I said the criminal seems to have even a better intelligence than even the security force that have been trained for intelligence so you just ask yourself what is really wrong is it a cost or is it because some people don't love this country are not patriotic enough then why did you join the police in the first place I mean in the first place you see I have to travel with that train even last week I was on that train and I know that in that train you find policemen and even some armed men but because there is more than just having uniformed people on the train there is proper understanding and need for intelligent gathering are we saying that there was no interception or giving communication Reverend the Kogi State Governor recently said that 90% of the security problems in Nigeria are politically are political do you share that with him well I respect his obvious as governor but I don't want people to use propaganda for every story you see this blame game we've been using is the reason why we've not been able to solve our problem what is political okay if it is political then I think the leadership at the moment should look inward and ask ourselves who are those responsible we've heard several times SSS would tell us that even governors are planning to disorganize Nigeria and there is nothing to show off for such kind of play statement no name is attached no arrest is made because anybody who wants to destroy Nigeria to dense the integrity of this country should not be protected should not be covered but what we keep saying every day is we are trying to throw blame to some people is every time politics let's keep politics aside and deal with reality okay thank you so much Reverend Joseph Hayab and Gabor Gideon just before we go Gideon hello Gideon hello Gideon alright we'll just I'm with you alright so what is it right now you are waiting for you're waiting for the calls what are you waiting for at the moment clearly there's this palpable sense of fear not just with you but everyone in Nigeria and in Cardinal state so what is it for you at this moment you and your family I think I really want to thank God for the ability for the wisdom he has given to me to be able to downplay the seriousness of this matter I have served as the minister of information to my entire family friends and family because people keep calling and asking me what's really going on you know and I know how hard it is for me to be able to calm them down basically the calls everybody has been asking me what's the next step on it have they called you have they reached out to you and the same thing the pressure is mounting on my on Jesse's boss we all are waiting for the call want to have the call to know what exactly they expected there is expected of us because trust me those boys is not a good place they are right now they are really going through a whole whole lot and we just wish that the government can intensify effort to pressurize those people have any form of communication they can do with them so that these people can be released we're just waiting for calls coming to know what exactly is expected of us so that we can have our loved ones back well Gideon Gambo I I want to say thank you for your strength in sharing this time and experiences with us we know how difficult this must be for you and we wish that you know they will return to you safely and soon and thank you so much Reverend Joseph Hayap thank you and Gideon for that we are with you you are a close family to me you know very well I didn't even know about this not now we've been with your parents for many years I didn't know that those wonderful children are now victims but I'm assuring you that we are playing along with you and we'll continue to add our voices until your brothers and all others come back thank you so much Reverend Hayap subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates