 Hello and welcome to Spectral Theatre Ensemble's neurodiversity new play festival. And so I want to introduce Mashuk Mastakdeen's 10 minute play process panel. Essentially we're talking about the themes for this year's festival that was to go on full force before everything. I'm so happy that you're here with us today. Thank you. What was your original goal for this piece and this process and what were you hoping to get out of it? Sure. My original I'm really interested in generational differences in my work at this point in my life and being in my mid 40s and so I was particularly interested in looking at aging and thinking about how am I and how are we meeting neurodiversity but specifically around this idea of aging and so I wanted to know what was the same and what was maybe different depending on if you were neurodiverse or not and I think one of the things that I found confusing and then enlightening was that I couldn't really see very much different. I kept trying to figure out how is it going to be different and as we kept talking over the days I just felt like we were five or six people talking about aging just like any other five or six people talking about aging and we all had our individual journeys or baggages or things we brought to it but there wasn't any if like this if you're this kind of person and you're like this you're that kind of person and that was something I I didn't know that I was going to discover. Yeah totally and obviously taking into account the pandemic and the seismic shifts of our culture right now what did you discover in this process? You did mention that you discovered aging is aging regardless of where you are on the spectrum or not but other things you may have discovered in this process in this medium and like what challenges did that pose? It was really challenging for me. I am a live theater maker and I'm used to developing work in person and so it was a huge learning curve to be spending three days over multiple hours on this zoom format with these folks and I really felt AI had a lot to learn and I had to learn on my feet. There were things about being in person that we just could not have together on this video format the conversations we might have while we're on break or having snacks or the jokes that might pass across the room as we're talking about something zoom is a very focused format and sometimes what we want is not to be that focused but to be playing in an area and seeing what comes up and I think there is something that is intangible and a little ineffable about just being in the room together and the energy and the shared space that creates bonds with us that creates a different kind of trust so you can go to different places that it's just like an energy thing that it's hard to explain but forms the bedrock or the foundation of the piece you'll then make with people and I couldn't find that I mean little bits of it but I couldn't find it in the same way and so I found myself very much missing being in a room with all of the people here on the screen and that so we had done some work together there was a piece of work that just couldn't be done because we were not in the same room totally I want to move down Jim you are a Providence actor that has been around for quite a while and you were with us in hotel plays and so you've worked with Spectrum before how is this you know in general too as an artist you know how are you facing these differences how has being around for a while with your experience and aging you know how has that changed and how do you feel this was addressed in that process if that makes sense it does it does it's it's been difficult the zoom format I love theater I think is all of us from all of us do here as Dean was saying being in the same room that community we've worked on plays together Teddy Teddy it's just not the same I feel isolated here and I do feel like I'm in this little box but it's it's better than as Dan said earlier it's definitely better than nothing at all I'm taking a class on zoom now I am doing a Providence fringe festival which I believe a lot of people in this group are yes so that's what's been interesting rehearsing and preparing that and I just I'm looking forward to the day that we don't need to do this the aging I just had a birthday along with Dan we're both can series David you you mentioned other things that you're you're working on right now during this kind of period of isolation and if you could talk on that of like you know how you're trying to continue your artistry in this kind of format and then also secondly you know how have you found anything you've discovered in this discussion in these rehearsal rooms or these zoom rooms just about you know your identity as someone on the spectrum who's an older gentleman well well first of all I think one of the reasons I've been writing so much is is is a by by product of the isolation because I miss the live theater so much and the live process the in-person process that I'm basically having more and more conversations with myself which is you know part of my writing process anyway because you know there's this need for and if I can't be with the people I'm not going to create them so that's what that's that's what I've found and and our need to use formats like this just to maintain our visibility yeah it's it's I feel it's I feel it's a duty a responsibility and also do we need to always be prepared to be in shape about the aging process being being part of the spectrum it's well well Dean is probably right I'm certainly right that aging does seem to be a universal experience there are aspects of it in that because just like gay gay gay people a gay novelist older and he was saying the problem with my generation is our older generation was wiped out by by a pandemic and so we didn't have role models on how to grow old ourselves as as gay men and I think that may be similar because because autism and the spectrum are still a relatively recent phenomenon I mean I don't think they I don't know if it's there have been test subjects until now of how to observe the differences the possible differences people in the spectrum and the general population in some ways because navigate navigating this condition requires constant self-observation maybe it's an advantage yeah maybe it's maybe it's an advantage for people in the spectrum because they have to constantly observe themselves and you know people so maybe we're better prepared in the general population I don't know but we'll see well that's an interesting observation um Dan I know I know your your story uh and you were uh you know diagnosed at a young age with a myriad of challenges um and and and just actually going back to Dean's idea of his interest of generational differences you've been kind of a part of the community for about at least 25 years or so now 25 30 years yeah um how have you seen it change in that time uh and going back to what David was saying like there doesn't seem to be uh an example for uh for all of you of like what it is to grow old on the spectrum if there is really that big a difference but there there doesn't seem to be an example but um but it also seems the perception of what autism is and and what that means has changed uh I just don't know if you had any thoughts about that absolutely yeah so so I mean I was I was one of the first group of children to be diagnosed with autism in the state of Rhode Island as children um I mean I most of the other children in that group were either a lot younger than me or they were like almost adults so I was kind of in a very unique position as a pre-teen being diagnosed um and as you said I mean you know so many people are diagnosed as adults because you know there wasn't any diagnosis but for most of the when they were kids so I mean we we have you know even though there are many adults with autism there have been probably for eons no one's ever really known what the difference was so we we don't have any knowledge we don't have any experience we're literally learning everything as we go and I mean you know I had a I had a childhood that's interesting you know there were good parts there were bad parts um my early 20s were absolutely we're a nightmare but it got better got better and even though we're having the issues we are in the world today that are kind of almost setting me back a little bit currently I had that experience of my early 20s to look at and say I don't want to go certain places I want to avoid that I want to keep growing and I am looking forward you know I like like Jim said I just had my birthday a couple of days ago I turned 39 I'm a year away from Big 4 O but I'm looking forward to seeing what's ahead hmm that's lovely Dan I like that a j you are a prominent spoken word artist in our community you are a great actor you joined us on cuckoo's nest you're my chief and forever will be you you're also you're an older artist who's been around for a little while and you were just recently figured out you're on the spectrum yeah and so and so this was probably the I just I'm curious of your perspective in coming into a room to talk about aging having just kind of learned some of this knowledge about yourself well that's a an interesting question it definitely gives me some perspective on a lot of different things that have happened in my life a lot of different uh miscommunications let's put it that way and uh I don't know I guess it kind of makes it a little easier to deal with some of the stuff from the past knowing where it's come from um when I when I was first diagnosed I didn't even know what PDDNOS was and so last year somebody's like oh yeah yes you're on the spectrum really so it's it's been an eye opener most definitely well and it sounds to me too like it hasn't exactly changed the trajectory of your future or where you identify yourself as as a man as an adult it's just kind of clarify some things yes exactly uh where I've where my focus has been it's been that way since I was a little kid you know I've never wanted to do anything else but art uh specifically acting and writing and you know that that hasn't changed at all you know I'm still writing during the pandemic and I've done a couple of acting things via zoom and uh yeah no it just it just clarifies some things for me well so that's wonderful um I think it's important I did want to touch on that only because I think there's sometimes this perception of diagnosis with with any kind of neurodivergent condition or mental illness that suddenly feels like a death sentence and I think it's important for us to express that it's it doesn't change anything it just allows you to have some kind of accommodations or coping mechanisms or things to learn that I think uh can benefit us I know in my experience I share with Dan my 20s were challenging um although I look back now um in my 30s I don't know how I would handle this this moment in my 20s um and I so going going back to that generational difference uh Dean that you're interested in um even though we're in this kind of pause button this kind of cloud of theater uh and and whatever direction you want to take this where do you think uh this art form uh needs to go to meet not only like the health safety but also like I think inclusion and equity um what changes or maybe even opportunities out of us being forced out of the rooms that I know we also desperately want to be in um do you think you see on the horizon you you're muted by the thank you I don't know if I see it on the horizon or I hope for it but I think a pause is not a bad thing it's taking a moment to um instead of to just react very quickly and say oh my god we haven't done this let's quickly do that sometimes a lot of harm can be done in very quick well-intentioned action so a pause could be a great opportunity to say what are our values what is it we're trying to do with theater how can we better do that by including more people in our institutions in our staff in our casting in our artistry like all of that can be part of that but I also hope that we do it like I think one of the things that's so amazing about the theater is it's so much about empathy we have to step into other characters I have to write other characters from the inside of them not from my judgment of them so I would hope that we also learn how to dream forward in empathetic ways that's not about kicking some people out so that we can make room for the new people but to say how do we all want to be part of this new theater going forward how do we all want to grow together how do I understand what it's like perhaps to be aging in the theater to a thought for certain things um that were different things that made my theater life possible but maybe that older person might have a harder time understanding a newer experience coming in how do we talk to each other across those divides that's what I hope for but I feel like the world and the social media and the very quick conversations don't always allow for nuance and what I really love about being in the room together is we have time to talk and to chat and to share why you think the way you think and why I do and have that and I think that is so human and so important that we have to come back into a room together to do it I don't think you can just solve that by like having theater on facebook or having theater in zoom like we have to be audiences have to come back into that room and have this unique experience that we will all share this event together and then talk about it that to me is the magic of theater right absolutely I want to open it up to the room of uh where you hope we might have some opportunities in this in this moment of kind of stripe and also uh uh yeah or like also and actually I think Dean makes a very good point sometimes well-intentioned fast-paced change can have dire consequences and so I like let's let's be honest with like do we have any fears about when we return and we are able to invite everyone into a room together um Dan you seem to have your nodding your head yeah I mean um I had one point I had one dimension earlier was on uh on Jay's comment about how um how you how and you're following up all with him uh you know getting diagnosed with autism does not make you different you've always been the person you are it just gives you a better understanding of that you know but uh to go with what you were just dealing with your current question um I mean you know like like Jim said you know we had a little bit of a brief discussion before we started the recording and I mean I said straight out that I mean this medium has a lot of things that I don't like about I want to be in a room with people I you know I like everyone else has said it's very important as an artist to create something with other actors in a space and plus I mean once you get actually into a performance you also have to have the audience because you know if if you don't have an audience in front of you that's responding to each and everything that you're doing either positively or negatively however they feel and allow you to express yourself and alter your own acting to get responses that that you feel they should be giving or that you want them to give that that you you want it to be natural you know and without the audience there it makes things so tough really right I mean yeah I want to get back I want to get back into doing that but again I mean we have a pandemic going on you know it's like we don't want to hurt ourselves we don't want to hurt others so right now this format is kind of what we have to do just for our own safety and that of the audiences but we want very much for this to end so that we can have real live performances with audiences again you know um and actually this brings up a good point is I think there's often a misunderstanding or stigma of you know someone with autism doesn't want to be touched doesn't want to be near people doesn't want to make eye contact and as we've all learned that if you've met one person with autism you've met one with autism um particularly with my neurodivergent three fellows here but Jim and Dean still feel free to chime in like you know beyond the artistic immediate challenges you know what challenges are you facing in isolation um you know I think you know loneliness what have you you know constant memory flashbacks from previous points in time that some are good some are bad and it just overwhelms you because I mean you're stuck in the floor walls of your apartment and you have nothing to do but think about everything in existence well and actually David you were you were touching on that that you've been writing a lot more you think possibly because you're you're even just communicating with yourself a bit more you're you're talking about yourself um are there other means that you've also you've been doing to try to keep yourself keep keep your brain inside your skull if you will oh yeah I mean I'm I'm fortunate I'm fortunate that I you know have a bicycle near the bike path and you know this American it's beautiful scenery so I have today's people I know who live in New York City uh just just really it's a matter a matter of discipline just saying okay when when the cloud finally lifts I want to be prepared to start diving it I want to be so just trying to keep myself healthy stick to routine and be creative and and like prepare now if I mean right now it's not a substitute for live theater it's a preparation for life you know that we're as in generating material and keeping and keeping ourselves and keeping ourselves as a company and as and as artists and as people visible for work so when when the audience can come back safely we have we have something to give them right away because they want as much as we want absolutely so yeah if there are the ways we can make make conditions better ways we as individuals can affect the lifting of the cloud such as you know like wearing a mask I love it a lot of tests I mean that's that's I mean that's that's my goals I want to I want to survive this I want to survive and I want to thrive and I want that quality yeah that's my well just want ourselves to survive both mentally and physically we want the profession to survive as well well put well put I think we want to we want to keep the the artistry alive uh Jay you were leaning in as though you had uh you had a thought wanted to allow you to press it um no I just I like the thoughts that are being shared here as far as what David said about how this is a preparation and how uh Dan said that we want the profession to survive as well and I just I'm I'm doing different things uh walking every day uh still writing I just finished an email with my publisher about another book coming out so you got exciting yeah I'm very excited about it I've got uh I've got actually got enough material for two books but we're spreading them out so but yeah you just to to keep the mind fresh and and keep the things going and you can't stay you can't stay isolated in a little bubble you know this allows us to see and do things that we wouldn't be able to see and do without I've been introduced to other writers and performers through uh the online mediums and so uh that's that's really the key is to introduce yourself to other works and that helps influence your own and keep and again keeps your mind fresh keep ingesting keep ingesting art keep on exactly yeah absolutely I think the best way to look at this medium is yeah as we as we've already said it's a preparation but also I think in the future we need to look at it not as just zoom or just um you know live theater we have to kind of bridge the gap and be able to say that you know we we need both we we can start up the conversation on zoom and then transfer it to a live space and that way we we already have some idea of what we're doing even before we get into a live space and that way I mean it's like we need to use the best of both tools it's like the best of both worlds needs to come together you know like like actually as you were saying um um right when we come back uh it sounds like you're kind of touching on like we need to allow it's not like we're going back to theater because it also sounds like there's you know a lot um and the cultural we need to address that so that theater as it's good has some adjustments to me yeah but like it's like we need to grow we need to we need to evolve to use all the tools at our disposal yeah absolutely um well this was this was an awesome discussion I just think I wanted to close it on we've been talking about where this medium really um you know it started with the conversation about meeting that neurodiversity and aging and it sounds like also were we in a room together uh the the process and the product might come out a bit differently um and I think if we were in a room together right now on this panel our conversation probably might not be so focused on how we're not in a room together yeah but I do appreciate that we acknowledge that it's not just artists and actors and stage managers and directors and designers who are not in a room together and executives and people who help with money um it's not just those people it's it's the audience and it's like we're missing an audience I know my experience as an actor doing some zoom work I'm acting to my computer and where I feel the artistry that Dean had kind of touched on is that intangible connection between not just audience and actor but actor and actor words in mouth it's the space between that we thrive on and I know it fuels me um so we are going to continue pushing and evolving and growing and educating ourselves um about how we can make theater in the future and how we can keep it going right now um but for all of those viewing us right now for being on you above too in other words yeah uh for all of you in the audience right now who are watching us thank you so much for being a part of uh support the local artists in your local theaters and please stay connected stay safe and stay tuned