 Well, back with the breakfast and plus CV Africa. Tunde Kola, while he joins us this morning on the off the press, I beg your pardon, his legal practitioner. Tunde, it's good to have you join us. Good morning. Thanks for having me, this is my mission. All right then, let's start off with the punch. The punch says suspension, are you heads for court as PDP appoints acting chair? That's boldly written on the punch newspaper. And away from that, you have underneath, are you once caught to overturn suspension, dam are gone to run party pending judgment. PDP record worst electoral outing on the are you and title chair or in battle chair, I beg your pardon, weak gone for good. That's what the G5 governors are quoted to say. And still looking at the punch, court cases wouldn't stop handover to Tunde Bo and Shatima. That's what the federal government is quoted to say, but it's more like stating the obvious. Now, stop fuel subsidy, revive refineries. That's what Pengasin is telling the federal government. And just as was you looking at the punch, then labor shelves strike and gives the central bank of Nigeria fresh two week automated. Again, you find federal government, 22 billion loan requests rejected by the House of Representatives. I mean, it's very, very funny if you ask. So you had plans, the government is still planning to borrow, just as they're going to be signing off and taking about 22 billion, billionaire loan, right? Or billion dollars. Ramadan, Uber reduces working hours for civil servants. So they are able to be part of the festivity and the celebration. One die, seven injured as far as God's Lagos market. The Balogun market, I mean, it seemed to be a real occurring event every other time, very, very saddening. The nation is what we have next. Buhari, Tunebu, well-placed to perform as president. Then you find president leads torrents for president-elect at 71. President-elect, I mean, to hold in Lagos, there's some quotas saying that that has been suspended. President-elect thinks he can't have that 71, Bethlehem, all of the ceremonies that come with it, but rather to have a national prayer. But the nation puts it differently. Labor-sharves-plan-strike over a naira-skecity for two weeks, NLCTUC, to monitor situation. Ngege, we are broken, or we have broken the trunks. That's what you find there. Pangasin, canvasses, petrol, subsidy, removal, please appoints DIG and promotes 2040 AIG. And then again, I use steps aside as PDP national chairman. That's the much we can take on the nation. We just move away from that and pay attention to the Guardian. The Guardian says, subsidy removal plan raises anxiety as labor breaks rank. Subsidy removal plan raises anxiety as labor breaks rank. Now, labor not aware of palliative talks on subsidy. The government has said we're going to put out funds for transportation to cushion the effect, you know. And what have you, but labor is saying, they're not saying the new. Pangasin, okay, subsidy removal, NLCT resists the deadline, you know. That's always been the case. Resistance from the people. People are worried about the effectiveness of the outcome. I mean, whatever it is that we're going to benefit from it, how effective would it be managed? Don't impoverish the masses. Group is telling the new government, palliative committee yet to harmonize position one year after Ingigay incoming administration to propose pay increase and bear the palliative burden. That's what you find. Now, still looking at it. Then you find labor, suspense, strike, CBN, pick a tiering to monitor cash flow for two weeks. That might just be dominating all of the papers this morning. And to Noble Council's first Bethi colloquium for national prayer, just like I'd mentioned. PDP obeys court order and replaces IU. That's it, we move away from that. And the last, it would be the daily trust newspaper. The daily trust says strike over cash crunch. Labor soft peddle to monitor our supply for two weeks. And then they can heats, right? So ahead you all have withdrawals from Emo PDP, Gilbaugh rays. Oh, that's quite interesting. Oil drilling kicks off in NASA, the World Federal Government I, Sokoto and Bida basing among orders. We are still talking about oil when there were several reports saying that we were still struggling. We didn't really have customers, the likes of France and what have you were not available to patronize us. And yet we're still discovering oil and we're very dependent on it when the world is moving away from the use of oil. Nigeria will end more money with deregulated oil sector. That's what Pengasin is quoted to say. And then 24 die in Niger auto crash. Very unfortunate, sadding her hats and prayers with those who have lost their loved ones. PDP replaces IU with Dalgum as national chairman. And that's it this morning on our papers. Well, Tunde Kola Wale, you're here with us. Thank you once again for joining us. I'd like to show your thoughts on the issue now on the papers and one that's been dominating all of the papers that we've taken this morning is the suspension of IU as IU now heads the court apparently the PDP has decided finally after the G5 Governors have been pressuring the system prior to the election for the removal of IU. Now finally IU is out. Honestly, the IU that we knew, or that we knew especially during the struggle for return to democracy and during the struggle for the remuneration for the exploration of health care the last presidential victory in 1993 was a principled man, a dogged man in our respect for the people's opinion. But somehow the IU that we are seeing now appears to have made a 360 degree sonar that's all the principles that he used to stand for which appear he has all negated all those principles. For example, I am of the opinion that IU should not have taken up the responsibility of being the chairman of the PDP knowing what the constitution of the PDP sees and knowing the informal agreement between the party members as regards the rotation of sharing of some of the offices in the party executive of government and rotating them between the south and the north but somehow it took up those responsibilities and despite all the needs and cries and pressure not just on the G5's governor but for me to the rank and file of members of the party he stood foot, he refused to step down from that position and he has led this party to one of the world's electoral victories in the return to civil in 1999 it continued to beat my imagination take for example England the prime minister of a meeting that led you left before it got into problems simply because of a budget presentation in the relationship presented a budget that was considered not to be workable the woman was asked to go the party rank and file the senior members of the party said look you have to step aside for somebody else to take on this possibility it would have been better if you are not ready for this challenge and the woman resigned honorably somebody has also resigned in Scotland now they are not having any expression in the time that is the way it is done in civilized society immediately your leadership is questioned you step aside because of your integrity because of the interests of the party as a whole not that you leave your party to the electoral housing and then you start to rush into court to challenge your removal it is a right to go to court because you don't want to encourage anybody to engage but if I were you I would have allowed it getting dark tonight he hasn't done well at all with regards to the management of his party and the responsibilities he took opposite it would appear to me that he took it for service reasons he also helped his friends write to them for my advice he could secure the party ticket and also win the presidential election that is not the way things are at all and you have been swimming against the current thank God the party members have asked for it to be moving out which I consider even coming too late he also has been removed long ago I mean I like the fact that you have also brought it to the point where he should have been removed so it's one on the other hand that he should have known better what the constitution of his party says and to reject the offer when it was being made but however the party also was also in a position to say he would take you off especially when you had consent from Governors from setting parts five of them who were tagged as G5 Governors even though their actions have been described as very draconian especially looking at the fact that they pretty were working against the party at a time but we would have to move away from you know the PDP and her crisis and just look at another issue which is on the front burner dominating all of the pages of a national dailies it talks about you know the labour union and the fact that they have suspended their strike action for another two weeks monitoring the behaviour of the Central Bank of Nigeria in terms of making cash available how do you respond to this Tunde Kalauele? Honestly the labour unions have stopped the strike, the proposed strike why do I say so? You and I would know that the disaster the designing of the Naira has destroyed small businesses it has also led to people dying burning of pants and so many I mean so many adverse consequences on the Nigerian economy that is going to be solved in the next 10 to 15 years except something drastic is done so if an institution or even an individual has led this country to that kind of a precipice I would think that labour should have been seated on accountability they should be able to get the CDN governor to explain why he led the country on such a disaster path and also the presidency who have put the design of the Naira of course the minister of financial of the Nigerian people and explanations so even though there is an improvement in cash liquidity it's not on the Naira but the next thing the labour should have been seated on is on accountability who did what and for what reason and what should be the punishment for that kind of action so pulling out on the side will not allow us as Nigerians to get accountability with regards to what has happened furthermore you and I will know that the country with regards to inflation and then the proposed move of social atrocity is also another thing that labour should not have withdrawn the strike action because they would rather have subsided it is going to be even more disastrous than the Naira redesigning like Avalis emphasized there is no society or there is no country in the world that does not subside one thing or the other take for example the today living of the people in some countries of the world there are two banks when you have lost your job you are employed all your addresses are another there are certain places that I am mad for you to go and collect at least two to three square meters a day so that you don't die of hunger and my humble opinion that is subsidy railway system, metro system agricultural system in most parts of the world are also subsidised I mean Kola Wale so we don't, I mean we are going to get to the point where we talk about the issue of subsidy with the CBN and the fact that you have the strike been suspended monitoring the availability of this cash for the next two weeks do you think that so far from your assessment the cash has been very available since the directive was given and do you also see cash being available for the next two weeks I mean ease of accessing this cash also something that we can you know see is a plus there is a cloud in some of the banks when you go there when you are passing by there but at least I went to my own bank and where they used to give me 2,000 error, 5,000 error this week they were able to make 20,000 error available to me and I also noticed that the big cloud that I used to see in front of my own bank branch isn't as mammoth as it used to be so if these are indicators the two that appear to me there is a response I think movement in a cash liquidity that we have in the system in the economy now what you think to determine what we might be seeing with regards to this cash liquidity is whether the CBN has burnt the old Naira that they withdrew from the system or they are keeping them in their form if the money is in their house and they have not printed the newly designed Naira all they need to do is to inject the old Naira nodes into the system and then we will see tremendous improvement in the cash liquidity in the system and the old Naira nodes are not and they don't have the means or the resources to print new ones either locally or abroad then we might not be seeing any such improvement in the cash liquidity in the Nigerian economy yeah so well looking at the punch there is also that headline where you were trying to delve into it talks about Pengasin and her support for the federal government removing subsidy asking that hey stop subsidy and then of course ensure that our refineries are revived are we not tired of this same you know line of thoughts over time stop subsidy revived you know the refineries Tunde Kolaowale ladies and gentlemen I am personally tired of this perennial tribute on the first subsidy like I always say the excuses that the Nigerians like always make for their poor performance for their disaster management of the Nigerian society the Nigerian culture the Nigerian economy is the subsidy that they have had to be paid in Petroleum in Petroleum I want to say let them remove the subsidy even though I do know it is not necessary to remove the subsidy even though I do know the amount of subsidy that they are talking about is not what they are even paying to the so-called importer but if they remove of subsidy will help us to get to the bottom of it are the non-performance of the performance of the Nigerians in their life so that we will not have these excuses again and then we will be able to hold the Nigerian political elite accountable for the poor performance that we have seen in government over the years in the time that because nobody has held their hand from repairing and fixing all the refineries and make sure that the refineries function so that we don't have to import the fuel from abroad so in a way the Nigerian people are going to be punished for the non-performance of the Nigerian political elite to the removal of the subsidy and remember Merci just about the year we were last year a jumbo concert was signed for the 16th of all the refineries and we are told Amir Sosaki and Manda Zempe for that tournament and we are also told that it's going to take about five years to fix the refineries I have made enquiries for some Petroleum engineers and I am told that the refineries can be fixed within six months but the Nigerians are telling them to take them five years to fix the refineries even when engineers are saying it could be done within six months and furthermore we have asked the question why is there going government awarding the counter for the 16th of the refineries that is not going to be completed in the next five years why don't they leave it for the incumbent government to do the answer is in the air we see you are not so for me I don't believe they are paying as much subsidy as they claim to pay secondly subsidy has always been the excuse for their poor performance in government exactly they don't contain the word that does not give one form of subsidy take a quantity like Saudi Arabia housing petroleum products all those things are subsidized when Libya was still Libya all those things are subsidized so if God is giving us the petroleum products why can't we utilize it for the benefit of our people and after all you and I know that in the next few years petroleum products will be like a code of solid energy that nobody wants to deal with because the world is already looking towards clean energy solar energy ocean wave energy wind milk nuclear power supplies and water electric cars and water so that is the excuse why here the Nigerian allies they have money on these petroleum products or crude oil that is already in my own opinion oxalate energy in many parts of the world so the ways of the Nigerian allies is very difficult to predict but the bottom line is that they have always performed well in government and they have always made the subsidy that they have had to pay the fees for their poor performance but if you look around to all the government's decision factories and industry that are in privatized which one of them is working optimally because in the privatized also most of those organizations most of those organizations are either dead now or come at us and again we have a different example in China the commanding height of the Chinese economy is manned by the government and they are competing effectively in the capitalist America in the capitalist Europe so that tells us that it is not the subsidy that will pay all the privatization and everything in your country or in your society that will make a difference that will give room for good wear management of those industries and institutions but like we said the labor, the civil society the market remain the transport should be ready to stand up to the Nigerian allies after they have removed the subsidy to sit up and perform like the counterparts in the other parts of the world let's quickly look at the issue of the piloting for I mean subsidy remover however it's no longer an argument or a conversation that there's need to exit subsidy even though it has always embraced several sub-sub-opposition it's been opposed the idea of removing subsidy over time has not sat well with some quarters but yes because it's very you know it has a significant impact in terms of our resources it's expensive now there's also plan government is saying we're going to make transportation available just to cushion the effect even though labor on the other hand is saying they're not in the know of the piloting for subsidy remover but I ask you what's the rationale behind that 5,000 for transportation and the fact that we're also trying to reduce cost of the subsidy then we're going to be paying cash what's the rationale really what's the rationale really all the time they are talking about but do you see that this ever worked you remember when Aganga was a minister of Xinang and they were talking with this removal of the subsidy and what have you people like Aganga and the other minister came up and said that they have imported all sources of buses to too much transit for people and subsidize the rate on all the Nigerian routes and that those buses are ready as reports waiting for the discharge have we seen any buses from those as we hope to today the answer is no now we embarked on what we call the school feeding program that's a palliative to kind of subsidize the parents with regard to feeding of their children as it worked effectively look at the athletic performance of the BRT and all the mass transit in Lagos, India as it worked effectively people in the Nigerian Congress used to have a transport company as that transport company was called us also look at all the noise that we are making about mass transit to the Nigerian railway as it was to the rail as it worked also look at the treasure money the money the gift of the young people just ordinary 30,000 as the gift of the young people the rich people as it worked as it worked so the truth of the matter is that some cities in this part of the world as long as mass is corruption and where it is not mass is corruption it doesn't really need to go to the people who actually should get them most times the position we give to their colleagues and party supporters and those who voted for them and the 12 people, the ordinary people who are living end of the time they don't make management do not profit from it my concern here is this if we say that we are trying to cut costs if we say that we are trying to cut costs because funding subsidy is expensive then on the other hand we are making provision to cater for 40 million Nigerians by giving them transportation allowance or piloting however you call it are we really cutting cost are we really cutting cost are you saying the same thing where will the money even come from because today the economy with due respect the Nigerian nation with due respect can be said so the economical bankrupt landwisks incenter So if you are already using 100% of the income to satisfy this debt, where will you get money to give as palliative to the ordinary people, to the 40,000 a year that you want to give it to? 40 million please. And if you say just 40 million, where will the money come from? And even if they have the money, the palliative that we have pretended to give in the past, as it ever was like I said, they will just give it to either their supporters or to their political members, to their members of the political party. And then once they have turned that for one or two months or three months or six months at most, the program will collapse and then it will be merged in corruption. And then we'll go back to square one. It's when they talk about palliative, we don't have a regime of excellent management of a family or giving palliative to people in this part of the world. The structures are not there. And where the structures are even there, the political class and the program and the students around have the will to expand that into the wills of it. Kola Wale, can you hear me? All right. So I think that we have been disconnected. Fortunately, we couldn't hear his thoughts to the latter as regards the removal of subsidy, the fact that the government is saying we will make plans to cushion the effect and not to entire 200 million persons, but to a group of persons, let's say 40 million of them, 5,000 are. We don't know if it's going to be on a monthly basis or on a weekly basis. We're talking about transportation. But if you look at it, yes, it's expected that there should be provision in place. So if you say you want to embark on XYZ policy, then you should have put in place some measures. That's why a lot of persons would say that, yes, you have, there would have been need for the refineries to be functional. It would take away all of the stress and the burden. But how far can we fare with 5,000-hour palliative for 40 million Nigerians? Are we really going to have that? Is that also not incurring a cost? Because we're seeing we're trying to reduce costs. But on the other hand, we're also incurring costs. Just as much as it's important to make provision for the effect of the subsidy remover. But this conversation has been ongoing for a very long time. And there are several concerns as to the management of the process. Because we say we will save a lot of funds. We would save a lot from what we would usually spend on the subsidy if we removed it eventually. But we also still have a lot of persons who think that we don't have the people, the right leadership to manage and be transparent with the removal of subsidy. That's also another conversation for another day. But I was hoping that we had Tunde Kuala Wale, so we could take one or two. But that's not the case. Okay, so Tunde, thank you once again for joining us. Let's leave the issue of the subsidy now on the removal. It's important that the government makes provision to cushion the effect. But does it really have to be spending money? What if we had all the basic things working for the people? So they don't get to feel the impact of this. But we'll leave it at that. Now, how would you respond to this? The federal government had made a request for 22 billion Naira loan, which was rejected by House of Representatives. Why is it that the government is very bent on borrowing to the latter? It's like, borrowing onto you, you're just dying and then you're still borrowing. You're dying and then you're still borrowing. Thank God that the National Assembly, the House of Representatives in particular, is waking up to his responsibility to continue this extra budget to expand itself. Especially in the dying minutes of the present administration. He's the National Assembly of National Responsibility. The mountain of care that the Nigeria has on its neck will not have them there. What the 20 blind are, say, very, very serious money or a cancer that is going to be a serious problem for the incoming administration. My suggestion is that this government wants to start or wants to cause it to rise at the peddler until the last minute that they leave office. You and I will know that they are insisting on going on with the census, which we are told is likely to begin even this month. Money is likely to be required to conduct a defense of. Of course, if they see one to print, the miller is designed in Naira, they will require money to do that. For the most famous avant-garde salaries, the army are also on the battlefield. Money will be required to do some of these things. But the question you ask yourself, must we always borrow to fund our ordinary, the living of the people of Nigeria? In the countries that I know that are serious minded, what they do is that when they have capital projects, railway, construction, schools, hospitals, underground cables and water flow, they borrow money to do capital projects. They also have the capacity to generate revenue, to repay back the loan. You don't start borrowing money to pay salaries or to feed the soldiers on the battlefield or to fund the census. Census is not a dual type of affair. If you don't have the money to fund census now, you could waste on the next government coming to power if they are able to raise the money they will do it. But this government is existing on going ahead with all the programs that it has set for itself, a kind of policy of raising the pay gap on to the very last minute, the lead power. And I think that is not the truth. But now they should be winding down, not just on programs and projects, but also on borrowing. In fact, they should be conserving money for the incoming administration so that they will be able to take off without the itchies. But if the administration that is coming in, it's had you with the mountains of debt and all that, then you will be creating crisis for the incoming government, which I think is not a too good at all. Like I said, they continue to insist on continuing with their programs and policies which are money consuming, but which in my own opinion, they could have stood down until the next government comes into power in another one month or two. Well, but just a bit of a correction to what you have said is not that the House of Reps actually rejected the request. As a matter of fact, they had approved it, but the bank where they were going to borrow had rejected it, which is the China Development Bank. They rejected that request for some reason. I think quite the audio was poor. No, no, no, that's okay. But it's also important to note that the China Development Bank rejected that request. The Chinese too may have rejected the request. The meeting after the other kind of the law is better handled by the incoming administration. Alright, Tunde Kala, I think I'm being prompted to call it a wrap at this point. Thank you so much for being part of the show. We look forward to sharing your thoughts as always. You have the lovely day. Alright, then Tunde Kala Wale is a legal practitioner. My compliments to your colleagues in the studio. He'd definitely get to hear that. Thank you so much. Tunde Kala Wale, like I mentioned, is a legal practitioner. He's right here with us in Lagos and he joined us via Zoom once again. We appreciate you. We take a break. When we return, we come up with a first conversation. We ask that you stay with us. Good morning.