 Do you think you should be able to have that type of power, put your price on life? Yes. Maybe a quick death, treat them better. And that's not psychopathic. Hey, buddy. What are you up to? Are you vegans? How do you know? I don't know. Are you the vegans? What makes you say that? I don't know. I see the things that I've seen before. Oh, have you? Are you the vegans? Are the vegans? Are you? The vegans are the less the square, yeah. Yeah. No, no, not the vegans are less the square. No. Pre-panda. Are you a vegan too? No. You're a pre-vegan. I'm not a vegan. Yeah, maybe. I think if I become a vegan maybe one day, who knows, right now, no. OK. What do you think about what happens to animals for? I think it could be done better. I think maybe price of meat could go up and they could be treated better. The animals could be treated better? Yeah, I reckon price of meat could be better. So the animals could be treated better, yeah. How do you reckon they should treat them? Not in the factories, not like factories. How would you feed everyone meat without having factories? Big fields, forests, plains. Were chickens in there? No, not chickens. Yeah, because chickens got to be inside, don't they? Well, you could have chicken poops. You could just put the price of everything up and you could have better conditions. And then no one could access meat and stuff? Well, no, then you pay more for it because there's more value because it's a life, isn't it? Then it's like you're weighing up a life or something. What are their lives worth, do you reckon? More than they are now. Yeah. What price tag would you put on, say, a bird? Bird, what depends on what kind of bird, how much meat is on it, how much to be sold for, how much land it needs. It's like fish tanks, you can't have loads of fish in a small tank, that's wrong. If you have one fish in a massive tank and it's all right. What's the bird's life worth to the bird? Well, it's a bird, I'm a human, you know, on the top of the food chain. So what do you reckon the bird... I'm swimming in the sea and the shark is... Well, I mean, what's the bird's life worth to the bird? Well, it's the bird, isn't it? It's the bird's life, so what else does the bird have? I'm human, you know. What's your life worth to you? I'm the human, I'm not an animal. Yeah, you're not actually an animal. What are you? I'm a human. Humans aren't animals? No. We're not mammals? No. Okay. So we're special. I'm made in the likeness of God. So you're actually God reincarnated, really? No. Okay. So do you think the bird's life is... I don't know what you're trying to get out of me. No, but I'm just asking you, because you put a price on the bird's life, you're in that position, you're just like, oh, 20 bucks. Do you think you should be able to have that type of power Yes. Yeah. So yeah, people do that to each other as well. They've done that in history. Yeah, that's wrong. Yeah, but it's not wrong if it's a different type of animal. If it's an animal, then you have different values for it. For all time, for all human history, that is the way it is, you know. It's history. We just talked about history. History doesn't show you what's ethical, does it? It can. But it doesn't always. It's going into a whole another realm. History has shown us what can be evil. History shows all sorts, yeah. So what I'm saying, what if we're in a part of history right now? Well, we are. Yeah, okay. Five seconds ago it was history, wasn't it? But I'm asking, is it a moral thing to do to round up animals and kill them? I think for me, yes, for you, no. And that's the beautiful thing. It's moral for you. We can agree to disagree, and that's the great thing about society. Well, I just want to know if you're consistent, no, or she probably wouldn't be okay with killing. Like what? Like dogs, for example? Well, it depends if the dogs attacked my child and ripped his face off. They're innocent like the chicken. Wait, you killed chickens or paid for them to be killed, and they didn't attack anyone. But a chicken would be raised as food. Okay, let's make it equal then. We'll raise the dog as food, is it okay? In some societies, who would say it's right or wrong? No. Because in China they do have that and that's the sacred part of their society. Who are we to say if it's right or wrong? Well, I can definitely tell if it's right. I disagree with it because you know, and I have a dog in my life, a few dogs in my life, so I have more compassion for them. You've got a personal relationship with them, so they matter more to you. With like pheasants, in the forest I live, they get shot because that is what happens. Yeah, so you'd have an issue with dogs being shot. Innocent dogs. Yeah, of course. Because there's different creatures that have different intelligence as well. Yeah, different humans have different intelligence, yeah? Should we kill the ones that are less intelligent? No, because if intelligence is the argument, then I want to know if that's really the argument. So it's not intelligence, that's the argument? Yeah, it is, because all humans are more intelligent than a fish. That's not true. There are human beings who have a severe mental handicap. Well, I'm just saying, would you treat them with any less of a human right? Okay, so then it's not intelligence. It's not intelligence. It's just this species thing. Are you saying that they can't feel emotions? No, that's not what I said. Intelligence and feelings are two different things. Okay, well, I'm putting them together. So it's feelings and emotions. So for you, I'm just trying to get out why you think it's okay for animals and not okay for certain animals and not okay for humans. I just want to know, are you morally consistent here? Seems like you've got a couple of double standards here. You're pointing, you're going like, it's not okay for dogs? Well, it's not okay for dogs, in your opinion. Well, it depends on the dog. It depends if the dog has ripped my child's face off. I never, we know it. Well, obviously, self-defense, you can kill a human, bro. Well, you're walking through Africa between dogs, not a pack of hyenas. No, I mean, I'm talking about innocent dogs being raised for food, like in exactly the same way we do to chickens. So you've got a double standard there. Well, if I had a pet chicken, maybe my thoughts would be different. Yeah, because you don't have a personal relationship with those particular animals. Therefore, like... I could have a personal relationship in Australia. Where in Australia? South Australia. Oh, the northern suburbs. Okay, so in the city. Northern suburbs is like... What's your opinion on people who need... So you go to Africa, and they need the cow, the goat, and they need that, and they grow it, and they... Wouldn't be having a conversation about ethics with them. And then they kill it, because they need to eat it, because it's not an option to live off other stuff. That's why they have... Are you in that position? Are you in that position? Do you suggest that that's wrong? Well, I still think it's... You just think that your goals are better than others. Which is very egotistical. Well, let me ask you... I think in some situations, people kill each other too, and I think that it depends on the circumstance. So if you're in a circumstance where you have to kill other people, I would say that it's more justified. But in a circumstance where it's completely... You kill another person. In the right context, 100%. They're threatening my life. They're threatening your life. Why is your life more valuable than... Well, if they... What if they think that your life is not as valuable? I would think that they're wrong. And I would think that... How come your judgment is more better than theirs? What if they believe... They could be like you. They're right. They could be like you and think that they're more important than me. And this has happened with humans for our history, like we said. And I would say that's wrong, because justice is fairness, isn't it? It's the capacity to experience the world, feel pain, suffer, and animals have all those values. But human beings pick and choose. They go, oh, these ones are for food. These ones we should care for. That's my mate. We should... Mike makes right? Do you know the saying Mike makes right? No. That's the same as saying top of the food chain. Mike makes right. Because we're more mighty and powerful than the other creatures, we can subjugate and enslave and kill them. Therefore that makes it okay. You can't use an enslave. That's for humans. Enslave is just an action. You can enslave an animal because they want freedom. I think that's a different word for that. I don't know off the top of my head, but it's not enslaving animals. You can take their freedom away from them and force them into work. You can enslave an animal. Because they can experience freedom, if you take their freedom away from them and force them into work, that's slavery. What other word is there? I think it's another word. Whoever is watching online, there's another word. What is it? I don't know. I could go on Google. That's the same word for taking our freedom away. Enslaving. They're for animals they desire freedom. You even said at the start that you think they should be treated better. Why would you accept they should be treated better if they don't matter? Well, because like it's obviously wrong when chickens are being like force fed into their videos. But who cares if they don't matter? Who cares? You say they don't matter, they're food. Because they have their little beings. Okay, so they obviously do matter. Yeah, to their own life. To be actually psychopath is the thing that nothing matters. Okay, so you're not a psychopath. There's a moral level. You're on a level where you think they should be killed under the right condition. Maybe a quick death, treat them better. And that's not psychopathic. No. But in the human context it is, yeah? Because there are compassionate killers like serial killers who they kill without pain. They shoot them in the back of their head. But you wouldn't be okay with that, yeah? No, but you clearly would. Absolutely not. Because you're not okay with it in the human context but you're fine with it in the animal context even though we both want to experience life. You're humans and you've got animals. Two different things. Your thinking is different than mine. There's no right way of thinking. But how are we the same, us and animals? People think there's a right way of thinking. There isn't a right way of thinking. I'm just questioning your moral view to see if it's consistent, that's all. I've got work. It's good conversation. I'm not saying you can't have a different view. I'm just trying to find out if it's logically consistent and you seem like it's not. That's all. One rule for us, different rule for them. Because we're this species, they're that species and I don't think that's a good justifier. Because people could use race, sex, gender. But it's discrimination. But why is it different? Talking about rats, right? I'll put poison on them to get rid of the rats because I don't want rats in my home, that's my home. They're encroaching on your home. Do you kill a rat? I personally wouldn't. But if rats infested your home and cockroaches What about you step on the bug? That's a different scenario. The bug has feelings too. That's more like a self-defense situation you're talking about. They're causing their encroaching on your home bringing disease into your house different. But if they were just existing chickens aren't doing that to you. That's what I'm saying. That is existing. It's not black or white. Everything's a sliding scale. Like these pigeons walking around here they're just chilling. Rats with wings. What you're doing is you're looking down at them. People do that to each other all the time. They're rats. They're dirty animals. It's the same mentality. That's your opinion. Humans are the same as animals. I'm saying that your discriminatory mentality of their rats, that animals eat them, kill this animal. I call them rats with wings because they have the same behaviour as rats. But why are rats bad? I wouldn't harm a rat. No, I'm not in your house. Would you go and harm a rat just an innocent rat? If they're just chilling? No, I'd probably feed it. If they weren't harming you or causing you any distress. But chickens are just chilling men and we're mass murdering them. A farmer has to make a living, right? So did slave owners? You keep comparing it to humans. No, I'm saying slave owners have to make a living. You keep comparing it to humans. I'm not comparing the animals with humans. I'm comparing making a living. And you try to take that livelihood away from them. Yeah, of course. 100%. I'm from the northern suburbs in South Australia. I've got human privilege. I don't get enslaved and murdered for a sandwich like the chickens that you eat. But I'm saying... Keep comparing animals to humans in two different things. Anyway, I've got to work as a street performer. Okay, well bless you, mate. I appreciate you giving me this conversation. You know, this is what... Of course, you've got the freedom to disagree. You've got the freedom to kill and eat animals, too. I know I do, but I choose not to and my conscience stops me. Well, I don't kill them. I pay someone else to do it. At the beginning and maybe to put more value on their life. But why? Who cares? You either care about them or not. So if you don't care about them... So it's not black or white. You just want to humanely kill them. Everything is... It's all sliding the scale. It's not black or white. If you look at the world as black or white, then it's wrong. In my opinion. I like to look at it from the victim's perspective as well. I like to look at it from all angles and I think we'll have a better world. That's sick.