 Here, this is a vegan, you know a vegan? Wanna try some? It's vegan, no animals in there. Try some? No no no, you sure? Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. You're Hare Krishna? No, no religion. No religion? No, just natural connection. Just natural connection? Yeah. Ah, that's what we're doing today too. We're offering... What is that? This is not animals. Okay. This is vegan. Okay, thank you. Do you know what veganism is? Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, we just don't harm or use animals at all? Yeah, yeah, that's good. Have you thought about it? Yeah, I love vegetables. Vegetarian for a long time. Vegetarian. Yeah, vegetarian just don't eat meat, but we don't use animals at all, so... Yeah, I know, you mean... Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Difficult sometimes, you know? It is, it is, but... Yeah. When you look at it from the perspective of the animals, it makes it a little bit... This is made from plants, so... Plants. Wheat protein, or soy protein, or beans. All right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they extract the protein, and then they just... I see what you mean, yeah. Yeah. Causing less harm. Of course, that's what life's about, causing less harm. Yeah, yeah. That's why I've trained myself in the Mahayana for many years. Yeah. What's the Mahayana? It's a high, high Buddhism. Wow. Yeah. Until I trained myself for many years, like, not to harm life, you know? Yeah. Minimize your harm, harm you're giving to life. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, there is no real harm, because there is no death in reality. There is no death. Death is only an idea. Death is only a... But it doesn't justify murder, though, that concept. That death's an idea. Okay, okay, I agree. Everybody has to eat, like, you know? Yeah, true. But when we involve money... Yeah. ...then the abuse begins. Yeah. If people were just to, uh, eat, catch... You catch a fish, you eat the fish, and not catch fish, to sell fish. We would have a lot more of a different frame of mind in the wild. That is true, but I would still argue that that fish has moral value, and we have alternatives to that fish, so we're not doing it to survive. But what the fish eats as well still has moral value as well, like, you know? Yeah. But we don't... But fish can... Fish and animals do what they do in nature, but... I agree with you in some ways, and I agree with that. And I think about the other ways as well, like... But, like, you know how lions kill other animals and stuff, and you're saying that fish kill other animals, but that doesn't mean we should kill each other because of the animals do it. No, no, no. Not killing. It's not killing. Yeah. It's taking a form for life, you know, to carry on existing. Yeah. But if we can exist without harming fish or lambs or sheep, do you reckon we should? Some people are natural vegetarians, vegans. I think we all are. They're naturally that way, but some humans are not. Like, if you'd seen a slaughterhouse, you wouldn't naturally be drawn to eat those animals, would you? Of course not. Yeah, and no human would. So that's why I think it's an indicator that we're meant to be peaceful. No, no, no. There's a lot of humans that would. Yeah, maybe a small percentage, but generally, we all don't want to see animals get harmed, yeah? I don't like to see animals getting harmed. Yeah. Even when... See, an animal takes another animal. Yeah. There's respect there. Yeah. This is why I'm saying it's the involvement of money that creates all the... I don't think taking animals' life is respectful to that animal though. I think there's other ways to show respect. And I think when animals do it to other animals, they do it to survive. What is the tiger going to eat there? Yeah, exactly. They have to do it to survive. We don't. We're doing it for another reason. We can eat rice, vegetables, beans. We've got all these plant-based alternatives. We're doing it for another reason. I think it's fine as long as the money, the involvement with money is taken over. But you said you care about animals, you don't want to see them get harmed. Yes, of course, yeah. But there is no real harm because there is no death. All there is is the taking of life for another animal to exist. Like that fish. Like I caught a squid a few years ago. And I thought I'm going to have to start. Yeah. Because I was living, you know, no money or anything. I'm going to have to catch some food. OK. So I caught a squid. OK. And I felt sorry for the squid. I put it back. I was heavily into vegetarianism at the time. Yeah. You know. That's interesting. But we don't need to kill animals to survive. Lions do. Yeah. And I don't think, I think we have alternatives. So maybe we could choose the compassionate choice when we... Yeah, we have ideas. But even plants have a life as well. Yeah, but they don't... No, no. They do. They're alive. Everything is alive. Yeah. You know, so we have to think about it in that way. But a carrot doesn't suffer like a pig does. No. Because they don't have a brain. How do you know? They don't have a brain or nervous system. No, no, no. I don't agree. I believe everything is one thing and that everything that exists thinks. Like a broccoli thinks like a... Yes, yes, yes. So you'd say that a broccoli has the same moral value as a human? They have instinctive thought patterns. What would you rather see boiled alive, a broccoli or a human being? It's not the point. No, that's what I'm saying. In the point of every difference in life. Like my brother said to me... Yeah, but there's a certain life we can eat. My brother said to me one time, a long time ago. Yeah. That dolphin's more important than the cow. I said no, it's not. No, no, that's speciesism. That's different. Nothing has more importance. No, no. Animals don't have more moral value. But plants don't have a central nervous system or a brain. They have a life as well. Yeah, but they don't suffer. They have feelings as well. No, they don't. And they have thought patterns. No, they have intelligence. They don't have sentience. It's something that we cannot perceive. But brother, it's different. If there's a carrot there and a puppy dog... It is life, my friend. Yeah, but they don't suffer the same as a puppy dog does. So if I was to stab a puppy dog or chop a carrot, one would make you feel like, wow, I shouldn't have done that. A carrot's put there for us to eat. That's life we should be eating. Okay? How do you know it doesn't suffer? Because they don't have a brain? No, no, no. They don't have a central nervous system? Everything is one thing. Even scientists will tell you that. No, no, no. There's no scientist alive that says plants are sentient. I know because the robin killed the ones that tell the truth. You know? Brother, if you think a carrot is sentient, then I can't have this discussion about moral value with animals. Because there's certain things we can eat like rice. Everything is scientifically proven. And it's been known for thousands and thousands of years that everything is made out of the same one thing. And scientists call it atoms. I call it God. Okay, that one thing. So it's not many, many different things. You're talking about that having a brain and that having a brain. No, carrots not having a brain and dogs and cats and lambs. No, no, no. This is just all ideas. All ideas that... If you cut an apple open, you know it doesn't have a brain. The lost human mind that looks for satisfaction through coming up with ideas. Yeah, maybe. The cat's not really a cat, is it? That's just a label. Yeah. A human's not really a human, so we can do what we want to them? No, I'm not a human. Yeah. What are you? Your energy. Everything is just the one thing. We don't know what it is. Yeah. We don't know what it is. In reality, we don't know what the one thing is. All we know is that everything is made of the same one thing. Yeah. We don't either call that matter or consciousness. Consciousness. Okay? Okay? I believe it is all matter. Yeah. Everything is matter. Yeah. Okay? So if that matter is the same as that matter, everything is just life. So that justifies committing immoral acts to living beings? No, no, no. What I don't like about the situation is the involvement of money that creates all the... Okay. The mass abuse. Okay, let me take your point now. To all natural phenomena, not just animals. Let me take your point there about money. If we took money out of the equation, would rape still be rape? If top people should be naturally satisfied with life, rape would not exist. If we took money out of the equation, would murder still be murder? It would not exist. So it's not just money. There's immoral acts beyond money. It's not just about bringing the money over the question. Exactly. It's not. There's morality that comes into it. It's about giving people satisfaction, a natural satisfaction of life. Yeah. They don't seek murder. They don't seek rape. I think it's a very poisonous thing, money. They don't seek to abuse. They don't seek money in a very big way. Yeah. I've come to a point in life where I'm satisfied with food and water. Yeah. You know, I don't need anything else. Yeah. I can have a family if I wish, but I don't have to. I'm still satisfied with food and water. Yeah. I sleep outside. I have food and water. I have a coffee. Yeah. But, you know, and I'm satisfied with that. Yeah. I can't wait for my training of the Buddha. Okay. Because the Buddha says all we need is food and water. But he also said compassion to animals. Yes. Yeah. Compassion to animals. Yeah. Compassion to old life. Okay. Not just animals. Old life. Yeah. We have to open the mind more and see that everything is one thing. So we should treat everything the same. Rice, boil rice, boil living animals the same. Is that what you're saying? No, no, no. So you agree there's definitely levels of moral value that we should have, like, to treat a cucumber. We have to eat something. We do. And we've got plants for that. Yeah. They don't suffer, okay? Well, you would agree with that. They don't know they don't suffer. Okay. They are spiritual beings, same as everything else. Do you think rice suffers when you cook it? Did you know? Do you think rice suffers when we cook it? Which I don't agree with. I don't agree. I think everything thinks and everything has feelings. You think rice has feelings? Our programming in this life and our education has took us in the wrong direction with the wrong connection to all phenomena. Do you know who do you believe put us here, God? This is why people are not satisfied with life and hell has been created on paradise through being lost and not having a real connection, natural connection to life. We would live in harmony with all things. Yeah. You know? Well, we can live in harmony with animals right now, yeah? Eating a fish is not living in harmony. Fish suffer greatly because we eat them. They do. They do. We rip them out of the ocean. They suffer greatly because of money. No, no, no. Because of our consumption of them, okay? No, no, no. Money's a part of it. Money's a part of it. Money's a part of it. Look, if I catch a fish, do you eat? I think that's fine. You don't need to. If I wish to do that. If I cut down a little, if I pull a potato out of the ground and eat it. Well, if I wanted to eat a dog, I could stab a dog and eat it. Because I'd choose to do that. But that would be immoral, wouldn't it? Would you agree that if I caught a dog and ate the dog, would that be okay? If you think it's immoral, then it's all immoral. Well, it's subjective, isn't it? Morality is subjective. Eating the potato is immoral as eating the dog. What would you rather, me eat a potato or stab and kill a dog and eat them? It's up to you. What would you rather? No, no, no. It's up to you. I'm not getting involved with that because I don't agree with any of what you're saying. What would you do? What would you prefer to do? Any life has any importance to any other life. So you think a potato has the same moral value as a dog? Yes, of course. A potato and a dog? A potato and you? Yes. The same. So you wouldn't have moral value over a potato? Exactly the same. It's all life. There's one thing here, and it's life. Okay. And everything should be regarded and respected. So do you think potatoes should have rights? Do you think potatoes should have rights like humans have rights? Well, why do we have rights? Because of our idea. To protect us? No, no, protect us from what? From evil stuff, like murder and like rape and like slavery. This is all evolved from the unsatisfied mind, my friend. All this, you know? Because the unsatisfied mind starts searching and creates all the problems in the world. All the criminology and everything like, you know? I could agree with that for sure. But I can't agree that a potato is the same as a human being or an animal that wants to live. Everything is life. Thank you for the food. Here, give me this. Okay. Give me a handshake at least, brother. A handshake? Thanks, bro. I'll give you a handshake. I appreciate that. I felt that. It was good. Everything is the same. Everything is life. Okay. All right.