 Good morning Radiant Church here in Richland Portage and online's honor be with you if you do not know who I am My name is Sean one of the pastors here at Radiant Been here for about four years now. It's been a pleasure serving with you guys here Radiant Church Hi, Sean. Hey Lee. Hi Jane. It's gonna be with you. This is part two of our Leaving a legacy series and so this is a special weekend because it's a live Q&A will be doing all three services So we'll have all three services last night and to this morning that will be online for you guys to watch But this is a moment that we can kind of go a little deeper a little more specific on what it means to build a legacy as Single married parents grandparents, whatever that might look like and so we have pastor Lee and Jane here with us who are in my opinion Not just our pastors but shining examples of what it means to be a husband a father a mother a Wife grandparents as well. You have dogs. I mean there's lots of things that you guys are experiencing. That's the real test That's the real test. Yeah, so We have lots of questions that have come in this last week And so every service is different and I want to give as much time as we can so unless you have something like to say I'd love to jump right in. Let's go. All right. Let's do it So this first question is from Annie from our Portage campus What are some practical ways to keep the love and romance alive after being together for years? So you guys been married for 20 29 years. We've been married 29 years. July will be 30 30 years. So yeah And I'm gonna let Jane answer no Throw her under the bus right off the bat, but Yeah, 30 30 years together dating for one year and then 29 years of marriage. So this this July will be 31 and You know, she's she's an amazing wife and friend and partner and I would say this is a great question because it's something that you know, it doesn't matter Who you are the longer you're together the easier it is to take each other for granted And to just kind of get into a neutral You know a neutral position of just you know, you're not in drive You're not really pursuing or you know, you're not going backwards But you can just kind of be a neutral where you're floating unless you really are intentional about it and It's it's important that when kids are added to the mix and you get busier and Your careers maybe are taking off and you're going in 14 different directions with kids That you never forget that the foundation of your family is Your love your connection together that romance that God has brought together God is the cornerstone, but your relationship is the foundation of the family kids are addition to that and dogs and cats I believe But it has to be you and so you have to you have to really work at Pursuing one another and you know things like We've always practiced having a date day whether it was when we were Newly married and didn't have any money. It was like get a bag of Orville Redenbacher Popcorn and a VHS tape from blockbuster now. I understand blockbuster is not around anymore So that throws things off but you know, it doesn't have to be big things But it was just being very intentional about spending time together Talking having a date going shopping those kinds of things and doing that as part of a natural rhythm because it's It's far too easy to get a year two years Three years out where you've just been very child focused or career focused And then all of a sudden you look up a lot of couples do this where they look at each other It's like we don't really know each other anymore. And so I'll let you jump in exactly I think I said that last night that you can Like think you're gonna have your kids forever and then one day they grow up and then you look at each other And you're like, I don't know if I like you, you know, I mean because you've never put the Time into your relationship because it's been child-centered or work or whatever and so So we try and do getaways Even when our our kids were in the house our kids are grown and our our baby Tiffany turned 24 today today It's her 24th birthday. So Tiffany happy birthday. She's not here today because it's her birthday Her and Griffin are on a little getaway But that's something that we used to do a lot. Yep I do I just remember when people would be like they grow up so fast and you're in the middle of it And you're like, I don't believe you and then all of a sudden she's 24 and there's 26 and she's 28 And it literally goes so fast So, you know, you have to keep the romance alive and it's through intentionality It's not just gonna happen if you're waiting for your feelings to dictate it Dictate your actions that won't happen your actions dictate your emotions. That's that's a great point And I feel like romance isn't Just sex. It's a big part. You know, I mean, but no, I mean through the years, too, though Like what percentage would you say? I'm just taking notes here. I mean like romance Like you can start off and think When you're first married or whatever, but it just grows and then it becomes less of that But more of like just almost knowing each other before you even say anything Which is really a beautiful thing I used to watch my grandparents do that where they could like finish each other sentences and they were married 70 years You know, so at like 60 years, they could almost read each other and I'm like start looking like each other they start looking like each other and and Now there are times where we've been together so long where it's she can just look at me and go What's going on? And I'm like, oh nothing and she's like what kind of text did you just get or you know what's going on at work or and I can do the same with her and That is deep intimacy when you get to that place because you it's more than just the physical attraction It's like you know each other's heart and that actually helps drive that but that that comes by taking spending a lot of time going through hard seasons having conversations and You get stronger in the midst of it I'd love to go like one step deeper on this question so I feel like you would use the word pursue and You want to constantly pursue your other spouse even from you know one year of marriage into 30 years of marriage One thing that I've been you know wrestling with my own brain is the difference between pursuing and serving and so I feel like Serving is included in pursuing but serving your wife and then of itself is not pursuing her And so what are ways that maybe you've had to intentionally, you know You could just serve her by you know doing the dishes or doing something but actually pursuing her Yeah, well taking a shower is big But you know being like if we're gonna go out it's planning something It's not waiting for her to say do you want to go and do something? But it's hey, let's go out. I've got a I've got a whole night planned. It's pursuing her. It's maybe writing her a card You know I kind of joked about that last week But and then afterwards she's like I really do like your cards. I just want you to do that and fix something and So it is finding out the love language of the person that you're married to and then doing those things intentionally and pursuing them can also mean Saying things today and not waiting to say them until you have to say them It's Communicating love and affection and appreciation So that's what I mean by pursuing it's like, you know, what did you do when you dated when I asked Jane out on our first date It was July 9th 1991. We were working in the same bookstore. She was the card girl I was over in the Bible section and I asked her out at like I don't know before my shift was over And she said sure so it was like what it's the first thing I did I ran to Woodland Mall to a store called structure. Come on some butt and bought a new shirt and I was nervous I called my friend and I picked her up and then I kind of had a whole plan of how I was Going to pursue her and you know what you can't stop doing that after you say I do After you say I do it's not that okay. I got her now. I can just kind of you know Wear my radio t-shirt and it's like, I don't know. What do you want to do? It's like no guys and guys and girls really but you can pursue each other in different ways ladies, you know Car hards are nice, but you know don't wear sweats all the time It's like maybe you know have them come home and have a date all set up at home And you're just like whoa you're looking good. It's like come in the house More than just what's gonna happen at the end of the night. Hopefully more than that is just the intentionality of like Oh, you thought about me and you went through this this and this in order to set that up That's probably gonna make the highlight rails right there But I do think as women we should get a break in the winter of yoga pants and sweatshirts like yeah Jane wears like a hoodie and sweat pants What's that yoga? And snowmobile boots. I mean she's got the ski mask and like the whole thing. I'm like I'll see you in the spring Exactly Yeah, I can come home and we'll open the door I'll be untying one lace and my wife's already changed into sweat pants. I'm like, how did you do that? It's incredible ninjas Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, yes, okay So you guys have been married for you know almost 30 years and now like you said you have you have grandkids now and As you are moving into being grandparents this next question is from Alice also from Portage as a grandparent How do you interject your own advice on child ring? So the idea maybe you agree or don't agree with something that your kids are doing and how do you let them be parents? But also kind of like try to interject some advice that you might think they need Yeah, we went over this question and didn't totally agree on it when we were talking about it Because I think that you don't give advice unless it's Asked so you can see your kids and you can be like I wouldn't do it this way or blah blah blah, but You're taking a big step. I Think by saying, you know, you should not do it this way blah blah Um, and Lee was like well if I don't like it. I'm gonna say something like you can't you can't do that She's right. She's not saying anything you can pray you can if they ask you whatever But I just feel like you leave and you cleave and you have to just trust that they're going to Um You're from the Lord like we did So if they ask you if they ask you for input or advice I think you have to wait for it to be invited and it's it's our kids are gray and we have one grandson Owen who's three Ashley and Zach His their little boy and Ashley is now Uh, Ashley is now pregnant with twins So, uh, we're getting double barrel grandchildren, uh, and they do a fantastic job With their kids, so it really hasn't been anything at this point for us where it's been like Oh, you you know, you're you're raising feral children and let us you need to stop that We haven't come across that yet, but because I I know this is hard for everybody in the serenity believe but I have strong opinions about things and It's it would it's hard for me In situations to know, you know what that's unsolicited advice It's not and Jane is much wiser. She she was right We argued about it a little bit in the car last night and she's just like lee What would you have done if my parents had done that to us? And I would have I would not have liked it But there's several of occasion there's several occasions though where we went to them and asked them questions And I think that's where you draw on wisdom But imposing wisdom is not good. So you have to have boundaries, especially with grandchildren And then even finding Mentors that aren't your parents I think is amazing too because it's almost like dating or like a marriage kind of thing like if you Go to your parents with everything and then all of a sudden you get over it They don't almost with your kids kind of too. I don't know Yeah, you can you can wreck any relationship by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time And that's why you know, you need to be slow to speak really think through things Especially when they're confrontational things and even more so in families. So it's just you've got to be very careful about Yeah, so you would almost say like as someone who is Leaving a legacy is very important to you and I think you you've been doing that through your family But almost it's and correct me if I'm wrong Are you saying you would kind of just like wind it up and once they're Their parents and of their own you kind of just let it go until they come to you because I'm trying to think of as you're looking at your legacy because in a sense it's your legacy But it's also their legacy and their kids legacy But your legacy is your example I think once you've once you've raised your kids They know who you are and what you stand for and then like you said you wind up and they go out and they Start their own families and the Bible says train up a child in a way you should go and when he's old He will not depart from it. There's some things that are time released That when your kids get married and they leave the house It's not going to make sense to them until they have kids and I know that because happened to me There's certain things that when we started having kids and building our family That all of a sudden it made sense of why my parents did what they did So you you know your legacy is the example It's what you taught them and then you release them and then you're there as an advisor and a counselor when they want that But too many people try and dominate you know and control their family and keep them close We love the fact that all of our kids are close Right now, but we want them to fulfill the call of God on their life and so No matter what that is and so we have our preferences about that But we don't want to control their lives and that's that's something that you know parents sometimes have to wrestle with That's great. Thank you pastor Lee So this next question we've actually gotten this question asked a lot in many different ways So I'm going to try to summarize it and we might I might already have a follow-up already for it Just because someone texted me last night was like Hey, actually, can you ask this and so please don't text me for next service? But um, can we put Sean's number up on the screen please? So this next question from Hailey from Richland So you talked a lot about marriage and how God uses marriage to refine both people we've talked about Marriage parenting grandparents, but what about single believers? So what are some ways that God refines single believers because you know marriage refines people So where should these single people who love the Lord be leaning into for growth and sanctification? Not just relying on I'll just wait till I get married. You're okay if I go and then you jump on that. Okay So God uses The very same things in all of our lives To refine us and to sanctify us sanctification means to make holy or to be made like christ jesus when he prayed in john 17 Prayed the high priestly prayer to the father. He said sanctify them according to your word It's god's word That is the force of sanctification in our lives, but the playing field that that takes place as relationships So if you're married the most important relationship that you have besides you and the lord is your marriage And so god will use that relationship like sandpaper to refine you and to smooth you and to Chisel things away that are not like christ. What grit sandpaper would you think you are? Probably need to ask her on that one. I might be more of a chisel But the reality is sandpaper, you know if you rub it against yourself it It irritates right, but if you use it the right way it smooths something and it refines it right so If you're single god still uses relationships. He uses friends. He uses community. He uses mom dad siblings So it's not that the only relationship that god uses to refine a person is marriage It's a big one because there's no relationship like it, but all relationships are the refining Tool that god uses and here's why it's because you can be a scholar of the word But it's not until you have to walk out the implications of the word that there becomes a price attached to it of humility of repentance at times Of having to forgive, you know forgiveness is difficult And so if you have no relationships, you have no need to forgive One of the most sanctifying and refining Aspects of our faith is having to deal with the weaknesses in one another and forgive and believe the best and then also confront our own Step when we were first married, I I'll admit it. I was very immature and relationally immature And uh, jane was very gracious with me because I was like an only child. I like things a certain way And she learned to forgive really well And learn to communicate to me things that she saw in me that she did not like and Then I had to learn to respond I could either get very defensive about that or I could say, you know, I'm sorry and and grow in that So it doesn't matter whether you're married or your single relationships I I think are the primary way that god brings refining work into us Totally and I just think the whole thing with family too is like siblings, you know what I mean because we have them From the beginning and you learn conflict and I mean, I remember with our kids I'm like, if you cannot get along with each other, you're not going to need to anybody else's house You're not gonna bring something else Somebody else's house. I'll be good there. I'll then be good here. So yeah, so So my so my follow-up to that is A lot of last week's message was as a family, what do you do now to start leaving a legacy? Whether you're 10 years into that or just starting now But as a single person, what are things that you can do now to start leaving a legacy even before you have a family? What you can become the the complete person that you are in christ Which is vital, you know You you are not incomplete because you are single you are complete you are whole in christ You are accepted you are loved you are whole there's not a part of you missing now The desire of your heart might be to be married and that's great But it should never be because I need somebody to complete me It's it you are complete in christ. And so the process of discipleship Or of refining sanctification Happens in your life and through relationships, but you can start developing who you are now, you know get in community. I mean we We have so many groups for example small groups That are opportunities for you not just to learn You learn information in groups, you know You go through a bible study or you go through sermon questions and you pray for one another But it's the relationships that are the agent of change so Nobody grows to full maturity in christ outside of community So you need community you need friends you need You need those spiritual siblings as well as your natural siblings And so in really invest your life into friendships really if you're single invest your life into Godly peers and we have several Young adults that are around here that are you know, they're single. They're not yet married But they just have close friendships where they're really provoking and challenging one another to You know fulfill the call of god to walk holy before the lord Challenging each other having fun together and I think those type of relationships help you become complete and mature in christ And realizing that you'll never have that time again, you know, I mean like To have that focus on the lord, you know, I mean like like that right exactly. So yeah, that's true That's great. Thank you guys So this next question we we have talked a little bit about it in the name of pursuing or serving your wife But you used this phrase last weekend us be a student of your spouse And so jim from portage and a lot more people have asked as well Um, can you elaborate more on what does that mean to be a student of your spouse? Uh, maybe some practical ways that you've done that as opposed from a teaching perspective. How have you practically done that? Well, you know, you study what you're interested in And that's you know, I I didn't I did average in school because I was bored most of the time but The things that I was very interested in like history and theology I took four years of latin because I like language Uh, and those are things that I was very interested in what I found out about myself is that I'm not a bad student. I'm just a A disinterested student. So the things that I'm really interested I go all in on and If you're married, you need to be all in on the person that you're married to so like study them And because you're you're never going to know everything about that person that you're you're married to or that you're You know, if you're engaged, uh You think you're gonna say I do and everything's gonna be great But the reality is that's day one. You're just becoming an expert in that person And every single day every single year you should be looking and paying attention to Finding out new things about them. I still jane will tell stories about growing up and she'll tell Stories about our family. I'm like, I've never heard that story before and it gives me another Lego piece so to speak to who jane is. It's like you get snapped into place and figuring out how she responds in certain certain circumstances and Uh, when she like for example, she Doesn't like to be on the platform. I mean today everybody. This is a gift to have jane up here It's a gift from me as well because over the last couple days she The last couple days she bought tickets to dubai and almost left early and I'm like, no, you can't do that You have to be there. Uh, but she did this because she loves the church and she loves God and she loves me, but I've learned over the years How she needs me to be for her when she's in stressful situations and she has Studied me to know that when I'm in a certain mood what I what I what she can do to help strengthen me So we've learned that you don't know that on day one though. And I know, um, I know her looks Uh, I know how she responds to certain people. I know her unspoken language. Does anybody know your spouse's unspoken language It's like when I'm texting her. Hey, I'm thinking about doing this if she responds with fine It does not mean fine If she says, oh good with an exclamation point. It's like, oh, she thinks that's a great idea But if I say hey, I'm going out with so-and-so and we're gonna go grab coffee and shoot guns or something She goes fine. I'm like She's not really saying this is a fine idea She's saying I guess you can if you really want to but you're gonna pay a price for that and I'm like, okay So I've learned I've learned her language and uh when she says, hmm, I know what that means Uh and she vice versa. So that's what I mean. You pay attention and from the position of serving because we all You know, that's the cause love and respect. It's serving one another, right? And so If I'm really interested in who she is and what makes her happy Then I want to study that I want to take notes on that so that I can repeat those things Over and over because that's the number one goal of my life besides serving Jesus is to Make my wife happy and to please her and to give her a good life Give me yep No, I mean totally it was so funny because um This I think it was yesterday. I'm like, you know, I love you And he's like and I mean it's probably just whatever because I'm doing this which And the scheme of things isn't like huge, but it is for me. He was well, you love Jesus I'm like, well, I don't have to love Jesus to do this like And she's he still loves me But I love you because I'm doing you know because I'm doing this and I'll still love you if you didn't do it Right, I know that but it was just kind of funny and it doesn't even sound funny now But it was funny at the time. It was a big deal. It's a big deal. Yeah So I want to spiral off this a little bit change the focus so You know being a student of your spouse seems easy and normal. Um, well not easy and probably not normal, but yeah But my wife and I we've been talking lately about I so I have a five-year-old and a two-year-old And we're seeing the personality and even giftings of our five-year-old start to come to fruition My two-year-old is still just like She's an enigma to me I don't even I I actually live in fear of what it's going to be like for my two-year-old daughter So she's like a female version of me and I feel sorry for society and I'm trying to work through it. So so anyway, um Can you elaborate maybe on when you were a student of your kids? Like when when you when you guys are building a legacy, you're looking at your children At what ages or how did you start to recognize giftings callings? You know because it's like at two it feels like They're just two but there actually is they're they're a unique person and god has called them from their mother's womb So how did you guys go about that growing up with your family? Um, I know that's a great question Um, because I've had different people like did you have words for them? And I'm like, oh no um But I think that as they grow like you just see the strengths, you know, I mean like I just remember Tiffany like having a teacher's conference and just like She just as always for the underdog And I was like, yeah, you know, I mean like I almost needed somebody else and we were young but somebody else to like point that out to me like I knew it but to be like, yeah, that is a strength that is Something about her that is amazing. You know what I mean? And then Jared He'd always like he'd be so stubborn at home, but then he'd go to somebody else's house. Like he's just the greatest kid. He's just So, um respectful and I mean and So I'm like, okay. I'm doing it. We're doing it. You know what I mean? So sometimes I almost just It takes other people to even like show you like Because you can just focus Um On the negative sometimes like oh, we're just not doing this right or this right or this is driving me crazy and So it's just always refreshing to be like, okay Like we're not failing. We're doing okay. They're good kids I remember when uh ashley and Jared when they were really little He used to like run and jump on the coffee table and grab like a a wooden spoon and they would sing to worship songs and Jared would do it for like 30 seconds. Ashley would do it like for an hour And we began to recognize that she loves to she loves to sing So she had a she had a great voice and so we recognized that and she loved worship She loved the presence of god and Jared, you know, it was the poor kid. He's He's the only boy sandwiched in between two very girly girlies And you know, he grew up and he was a big, you know strapping kid and uh, but he was always very black and white everything was like either fair or not fair and Began to pretty recognize pretty early on And uh, that that was a challenge and so we always kind of looked at it negatively But the reality was no god actually hardwired that sense of justice on the inside of him It's part of who he is and it's an important part of his call and his personality And now we see that he's 26 and you know, he's passionate about certain causes and things that are He's one of the most loyal people. He is a incredible friend. He will go to battle with somebody But that was in him early on and Tiffany was You know artistic and creative and would dance and make up plays and her and her friend Hailey would They created a health spa in her bedroom one one day and you know going and it's that imagination piece was in her so Being a student of your spouse being a student of your kids Note those things and pay attention to them It's easier said than done But the reality is when you if you look for them, you'll see them and if you're just trying to get through You might miss them And I think with kids To not always go the negative like yeah, and maybe that's just certain personalities to but not be like In spouses to just not always looking for the and I love that before we move on to the next question So I want to let me throw this in real quick Uh Parents if you see those things in your kids now, we did not always do this We I think we figured out some things later on But there is incredible power in your words as parents So to speak life over those things in your kids is like putting miracle girl on seeds of destiny in her heart It's like I see that in you which is so cool going back to the um question a while a couple of go about um You know um intervening in Your kids raising and I can't believe how much we've grown Just by watching ashi and zak parent oan, you know, I mean, I'm like my gosh, that's really good You know, why didn't I do that? Why didn't I think of that like? um So you can learn also So much from them and just be so proud and Cheer them on. I don't want to yeah, that's great. I want to highlight that point you made of Of it's easy as parents of young kids to kind of like get into survival mode And then there are 10 and you don't recognize anything in them But to actually take a breath like go for air and recognize and speak life and that's like that's a fantastic Point so I want to give time for this last question. Um, it's directed towards you jane I'd love though to hear your side of it pastually when it comes to men as well but uh So jane for young single women who want to make jesus our first priority. We just went to that whole priority the first series Um, do you have any advice or encouragement on how to remain consistent with that in a busy distracting world? um, I think I would go back to even When you're a young mom With kids is you just have to make the time I mean, that's really all it is. It doesn't matter if you're single It doesn't matter if you're a mom is all about making the time And so if it's if you have to get up a half an hour early or an hour early, you know what I mean like Or a stamp later if you're if you can do that if that whatever But it's just making the time because everybody has that 24 hours And it's how you prioritize it doesn't matter if you're single doesn't married If you're married if you have kids if you don't have kids if you're old if you're young we all have 24 hours and um so Yeah, I think that's it. It's just jane used to when our kids were little. What time did you get up? It's like five Yeah, I would sleep to like six jane would be up at five. I'd hear the worship music And the living room she was out there Reading her bible journaling And doing all that while I was sleeping it was because the kids were getting up and she made that a priority to do that when our our kids were little and Then she would go on exercise, but it was you carved that time out and uh now You get to sleep in a little bit because the kids aren't home But I mean I just remember that and it's still even with that is like if I don't Make it a priority the day, you know, I mean just goes by and so again just making it a priority Yeah, so pastor lee as as you know before we close this time if you could just speak a little bit into that and you Kind of tagging in the priority. I'm sorry the first series and the legacy series like how do you do that? well, well anything that's going to be first Uh requires you to make other things second and beyond and so you have to you have to make that determination You can say I want god to be the priority but You have to say no to some things and so you have to you have to change your priority You have to say no to some people. You have to say no to some places. You have to say no to some things Uh in a very practical world if you're talking like hey, Jesus, I'm gonna pursue. I want to grow in your word I want to grow my understanding of your word if your word is your will and you want me to keep your will Then I have to know your will which means I have to give time to it Uh, that means you're gonna have to have some people around you because you can't study you can't grow in a vacuum You need other people so you have to prioritize the right relationships. You have to prioritize your time You have to say no to some things even good things that you have to say no to And I think the best thing that I did as a a young person who was trying to prioritize jesus Because I you know just like everybody else we're all human beings We all have the same temptations the same struggles the same demands On us and so when I was a young person I got two or three really good friends who all had the same desire Let's let's burn for jesus. Let's go and and we ran together and you are I believe this is true. John Maxwell said this. He said if you want to know where you'll be in five years Look at the five people who you're closest to And so if you want to prioritize jesus find people who jesus is a priority to them and draft It's like nascar, you know get into that line and just draft off of each other You're faster. You're stronger together than you are by yourself and And then make that decision just premeditatively just say I'm saying yes to jesus no matter what it costs And I'm saying no to anything that gets in the way of that if you'll do that Then you you aren't going to become a spiritual giant in 24 hours But if you give that 24 years of consistently choosing jesus Choosing god prioritizing the kingdom Over a long period of time. You'll be shocked at what god can do through your life. Thank you best really. Yeah. Thank you Can we thank shon? Can everybody stand up with me right now Let's just uh, let's take a moment together and pray If you'd just buy your heads with me all over the room lord today Is jane and I stand on this stage? Uh, we recognize that We all need you so much You are the god of legacy You are our god and lord. We're your children And all of us who are listening and in this room. We're all at different places But you know exactly where each of us are and you know The plans and the purposes that you have for us for us and for our families for our marriage marriages both present and future You know the homes and the legacy that you want to establish through our lives lord more than anything this morning. I pray for soft hearts I pray that you would give us pliable soft hearts of flesh not stony calloused Not resistant hearts but soft pliable hearts that when we Hear your voice we say yes, and when we sense your presence We don't draw away Lord No one builds a legacy without you unless the lord builds the house. They labor in vain who build it But lord you are the one who builds our homes our families our legacy And so we look to you god we say we need you We need you We need your holy spirit. We need your strength and we need eternal perspective lord today Would you open each of our eyes to be able to see from an eternal perspective not just today? but a decade 25 years 50 years and on into eternity And then help us to live our lives today in light of that We pray this in jesus name