 Well, thank you everybody for joining Hydrotera today for another one of our webinars. Today our topic is for goodness sake, don't forget about your landfill gas. It's a really interesting topic and I've been chatting with Dr Victoria Mackay who's our presenter today about all these things in landfill gas extraction systems that I was unaware of, so I think you'll enjoy the topic today. Before we get started, I'd just like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we meet today, the Bunarong people of the Kulin Nation. I also pay my respects to their elders past and present. So a little bit about our presenter today. So Victoria, thank you very much for joining us. Victoria has got an interesting background. I've just been hearing a fair bit about it. Originally from New Zealand, Victoria has done a lot of studies. She's done three degrees, a Bachelor of Science in Toxicology in New Zealand and an Honours in Medicinal Chemistry also in New Zealand. Then Victoria embarked on a PhD and that topic was organic chemistry and production chemicals for sensing cancer. I think I got that right, Victoria. That was undertaken largely in California. And at the end of that, Victoria returned to Australia and worked in agriculture for a while doing studies into residual chemicals in agriculture before seeing the light and moving into the world of waste, which is really the topic of today's discussion. So really in terms of her early career in waste, Victoria cut her teeth in the Bundaberg Regional Council and spent several years there as a senior technical officer. She's recently joined LGI Limited as a technician in the landfill gas management space. And Victoria uses her practical experience in waste and her scientific background to develop and deliver strategies and improvement programs that ensure the environmental assets are protected and sustainably managed. I would say that Victoria has a wealth of knowledge on these landfill gas extraction systems based on my discussions today and also a broad knowledge of some of the programs in place around how they can be monetized. So without further ado, before I do that, I will now move on to a little bit of guidance for you on how you can raise questions. We love your questions and thanks very much for everyone who provides questions during these webinars. To place a question, just use the Q&A button at the top of your screen and type in your questions and I will read those questions out to Victoria and we will try collectively to answer them to the best of our ability. Thank you also for all those early bird questions. Just about got a record of early bird questions for this one. We've got 12 early bird questions. So we will be doing those first, of course, before moving on to the other questions. A little bit about why Hydrotera runs these webinars. We're very passionate about sharing knowledge and there's some great knowledge that we will be learning today. We also like to facilitate education. We feel that in the industry at the moment, training is lagging behind and this is one way for us to help facilitate some training of those people in the industry. And finally, we like to be an industry leader identifying new technologies and how they can be applied and there's no better way to do that than to actually get people from the industry who are trying to solve problems to tell us what they need. Alright, so without further ado, I'd like to pass over to Dr Victoria McKay for your presentation. Thanks very much Richard and thanks everybody for joining us. I just wanted to come here today to start talking about local gas and get it to the forefront of everybody's minds. First thing I want you to do is have a think about the number of times in the past year that you visited your community library or community pool, you know, your parks and hospitals. And now think about how often you used your landfill and the answer is probably going to be every week. So we have this interconnectivity with our landfill but we really struggle to get our community to recognize how important the landfill is in the piece and these services that we provide. We are doing really great things working towards resource recovery and the resource recovery space but we need to make sure we take our best practice landfill management on that journey to. So if you're trying to find something engaging to start talking about your community about landfills and getting them interested in landfill management, landfill gas is a great place to start. We can go to the next slide. So I guess the first thing we sort of need to address is what is the issues around landfill gas. So landfill gas, as you know, is generated by three processes. So you have your bacteria or degradation of your organic wastes within your landfill cell. Landfills also generate partial pressure. So if you have volatile wastes in there, they also fallage less within the landfill. Then you have gases that can be created from the presence of wastes that actually react and mix within the landfill. So it's quite a mixture of gases that are produced. Within that complex mixture of gases, methane is your predominant gas that's in there. So your bacterial degradation predominates when your landfill converts from anaerobic to anaerobic conditions. So why is methane such an issue? We know that it's a colorless and odorless gas. Methane itself is flammable and explosive. So when you get methane levels between sort of five to 15% of your atmospheric levels, it is explosive. But I think the key here is that methane has a global warming potential of 28 times that of CO2. So it's 28 times better at retaining heat in the atmosphere than if you had a molecule of CO2. Now, I guess everybody is well aware climate change is a very big factor in the use in our environment at the moment. So looking at the scale of that, that's great. So 50% of your landfill gas is methane. But what does it actually look like in terms of total volume? So for an average council, you're probably looking between 40 to 65% of all of the emissions within all aspects of the council are actually from landfill gas, from the methane and landfill gas. So that pie chart really sort of clearly shows you that big red chunk is your landfill gas. Now, that is an opportunity. That is an opportunity to do a very simple thing to immediately enact greenhouse gas emissions reductions. So the government has recognised this and there are funding mechanisms in place. So we are able to utilise the emissions reduction fund. They have a landfill gas method for generating Australian carbon-credited units. So that's your ECCUs. Unfortunately, a lot of landfill licenses don't specifically speak to landfill gas at the moment. And that is where the marrying of the emissions reduction fund and the environmental licensing sort of sits. With the emissions reduction fund, there is this requirement for additionality to participate in the fund. So whatever you were doing, you have to actually be abating carbon at a level greater than what you would have had to do otherwise on a regulatory basis. So if you don't have anything in your licence around landfill gas, start now. Now is the time. Next slide, if you don't mind. So what does it actually mean to manage your landfill gas? Why are we doing it? So obviously there's the greenhouse gas emissions reduction. But if you install a landfill gas extraction system, you're also working your way to reduce the odours that your landfill is producing. We do this because we actually put a vacuum on the landfill cell. So there's less risk of fugitive emissions from your landfill. Installations of landfill gas extraction systems also can be utilised on landfills that are closed. So we're dealing with the legacy waste issue that we currently have with these systems. If your landfill is suitable for an emissions reduction fund project. So that's where you can either upgrade an existing system or you can install a new system. The installation of that can be funded by the generation of these ACC use that you get when you participate in these emissions reduction schemes. So this actually means that you could have a landfill gas extraction system put onto your landfill for low to no cost to most operators. And if you have a landfill that's active and continuing to grow, there might be an opportunity that you can actually generate revenue in addition. So it can be a source of passive revenue. Victoria, just a question. You said if your site is eligible, how do people actually work out if their site is eligible? So these are some conditions that are published within the method. They particularly sit around whether there is already a requirement within the license or a regulation that says that you must be capturing and managing your landfill gas. So if you have that in there, it doesn't immediately disqualify you. What it means is that you need to be doing more, you need to be chasing the gas. So there is the opportunity for an upgrade project. So that's where you can do improvements to your current landfill gas system. You can make operational improvements, you can add wells. And that means that most projects, almost all projects are eligible. You can just have a look on the Clean Energy Regulators website to see if you fit into those categories. If I own a site now and I just wanted to engage someone, do they engage your standard environmental consultants or do they come straight to contractors like yourselves? What's the best practice? There's a lot of different ways to manage a landfill gas system. So depending on what the requirements are, I'm going to say councils here because they're usually the people who are most involved in landfill operations. So depending on the procurement requirements of your council, there's different mechanisms. There's a lot of means land, a lot of landfill gas extraction providers are all the local life animals and you can directly engage a landfill gas specialist. If you want to go for a tender process, you can do that. There are a number of really great consultants out there who work in the landfill gas space who can assist a council to put together a tender. What I would highly encourage you to do is just talk to your landfill gas expert and get them out to do a site. It's very, very important because landfill gas systems are really reliant on the site conditions and to understand how much gas for landfill will actually generate. There might be some modelling involved as well. Alright, thanks Victoria. I might let you get back to the next slide. I'll finish off this one. So there is, there's also something important to recognise is that the emissions reduction fund projects, the generation of the ACCUs, the installation of the landfill gas extraction system is flaring. Actually can underwrite the ability to put a power station on. So once you understand how your gas flows are occurring in your landfill and how much you'll go and be able to extract, you can do an assessment to see if your gas flow can support beneficial gas destruction systems such as an engine or gas turbine. So that's actually producing renewable gas from the, sorry, renewable energy from the landfill gas. And that can be fed back into the power grid, which from those you can generate large generation certificates. You're producing renewable power, green renewable power, and also it's dispatchable so you can use your landfill like a sponge. And when the grid has high peak demand times, you can ramp up your energy production just to help supply energy to the grid provides stability. And I think another space that's very important to recognise is that the ACCUs that are generated from landfill gas, they're immediate. So the carbon abatement occurs the moment you pull the gas out and put it through a flare or an engine and destroy that gas oxidiser to carbon dioxide. In terms of carbon abatement, it's irreversible. You know, you might grow a tree and it might fall down and die or you might cut it down, but you can't undo oxidation of methane to carbon dioxide very easily. And also nice to think about the fact that with landfill gas, you can put a flow meter on it, you can actually measure your abatement very accurately. So you can guarantee that those carbon credits that you're buying to offset your current emissions profile, they come from tangible carbon abatement. So we can roll over. So I guess the question that comes up now is why isn't everybody doing this? Why haven't we jumped on this? And I think that there's a little bit of a lack of recognition about how rapid and how much landfill gas is generated during the early landfilling stages. So at the Australian Landfills Transfer Conference down in Melbourne, Stuart Deter and the next sentence got up and they put this chart up and it really spoke to me because it really indicates that from the modelling and obviously all modelling is flexible. But it tends to sort of speak to the fact that about 30% of your total gas, landfill gas generation can occur before a landfill is closed. So waiting till your landfill is closed to put your infrastructure in, you know, you're losing a massive amount of your resources there. We can roll over. Can we check slides? I'm sorry, you cut out there. Do you want to go to the next slide? Yes, please. All right. Now, I think it's very, very important to remember that while we have these great schemes available to us, they are very dependent on regulation. So the moment that the regulators come out and put some changes to the guidance that says that you must do something about your landfill gas is the moment where you are going to have to work so much harder to meet that additionality requirement within the method. So if you use the opportunity that we have available now and chase the gas, put in the best system that you can. Or you run the risk of having to pay for it yourself and that's a large burn to be for a lot of communities in Australia and the financial times that you're entering into now. And it's very important to point out that regulation is coming. You know, the New South Wales Queensland governments have very clearly indicated that they are they have an intention to require active and operating landfills to manage their gas in the future. And does that mean they won't be eligible once that's in place, they won't be eligible to claim this. Once that's in place, it's going to mean that their baseline is going to be much higher because there's going to be already have to be a requirement for them to capture a certain amount. And if they want to participate in generating ACC news, they're going to have to be doing above and beyond that. Right. So the general environmental duty that's in the EPA. It's an unlimited level of effort that's required. It's a little bit gray, maybe, but it's sort of basically saying to the extent practicable you've got to avoid pollutions. Does that affect that? It doesn't seem like it's a very clear line to be. Do you think there'll be additional regulation that clarifies that for Victoria? I would say that we're heading into a space where we are starting to understand our capture efficiencies and what would be expected of an average or operating landfill. So, you know, we have had these systems in place for quite a while now for many, many years, it's not new technology. The government is getting its head around the figures on what we are actually able to capture compared to what we expect our landfills to generate. So once they get more sense of that, they're going to be able to put more precise regulation in place. So if someone starts a project tomorrow and it takes them 12 months to get up and going, and the regulation changes in that period, are they still, because they've commissioned it before the change, does that mean they can clone? I believe it would be all about project registration and timelines. So in terms of getting a landfill gas project up and running, you know, we've been able to instigate and operate a landfill gas project in as little as six months. So things that tend to hold up those timelines usually is the procurement process internal within council. Okay. Shall I move to the next slide? Thank you. So how do we actually assess whether your landfill is suitable for a landfill gas extraction system? So I'll pop some rules of thumb up on the slide here. I think that the key message to us though is that the technologies have advanced significantly. And if you've had a landfill gas assessment on your site, you know, that's more than two years old, get another assessment. So with the installation of systems, it's really highly dependent on your site conditions and the geometry of your cell. So you have to have an amendment of depth of waste in place to be able to put landfill gas infrastructure in. But apart from that, it's the volume of waste that we can sort of have a look and predict how much gas is going to be generated and will that support combustion from an active system. But you can put them on both open and closed. So in your working base, as well as on closed or interim cap sales as well. Next slide. So what's actually involved in a landfill gas extraction system? I'm not sure people have been to landfills. You don't see a lot from the outside. So I just sort of want to take everybody through the infrastructure that you put in place. So there's three levels of infrastructure within a landfill gas system. So your primary secondary and tertiary, your primary infrastructure installations are your actual well kids. Now, those are the perforated pipes that interface with the waste and act to actually capture the gas and give it a pathway to feed back to your destruction device. So these two types of wells, you've got your vertical wells that can be placed into closed cells, into legacy landfills and closed cells, also into inactive cells. So if you're in an area and finished it, you pop your interim capping on, then you go and put some vertical wells into that area and extract the gas from those areas as well. Vertical wells can be used multi-purpose wells so you can actually use them for leachate re-injection or leachate extraction if you've got very wet areas of waste. The important thing with that is to work with your landfill gas contractor and your engineers to look at the systems in placement of those wells. Vertical wells have a zone of influence of waste around the well that can actually extract the gas from. So the positioning of the wells will relate to this zone of influence as to how many wells per area of waste you're going to need. The vertical wells can also go into your areas of active filling, but they do need to be mindful of operations as well. So if you have vertical wells then you do need to be mindful of them when you're doing compaction. So if we can flip over to the next slide. No, not yet for the question. So you've got to be mindful of compaction and look after them. I'm just trying to visualise how you do this. So you've got these vertical wells and you've got trucks coming in and depositing waste for the next lift. Do you disconnect everything and put extensions on these vertical gas wells as you progressively do the lifts? Is that how that works? Absolutely. So we extend wells as the lifts go in. We tend to describe it when we talk into the operators as if they put a little volcano of waste around it. So that your lone-fell compact doesn't run over the well-hits themselves. It makes a nice safe operating area around it. I guess they're extended vertically until you get to your final hike as they go through. And you have, in the picture you've got there, you've got a slotted section. Do you end up with sort of multiple slotted sections in the verticals as you go up? Multiple slotted sections in verticals, absolutely. Okay. And the gravel pack just keeps getting extended up. The gravel pack gets extended up. The gravel pack allows for movement of gas and prevents a lot of sediment from flowing back into the, blocking the well perforations. Okay. All right. We can move on now. Thanks. So the second type of primary level installations are your lateral wells. So lateral wells are preferred for areas of active filling. They have a much wider zone of influence, so they're really effective at gas capture. And how the lateral wells tend to work is you will finish a lift and then your gas contractor will come in and trench into that. And then lay the lateral lines. Then you will come back and put your next lift of waste on. And once you have sufficient depth of waste above and below your lateral line to prevent air ingress into the system, then the vacuum will be applied. The great thing about lateral lines is you can get them into the waste and get them on a bit faster early. You don't have to wait till you've got to a final height or an interim cupping stage before you can place vacuum on them. Lateral lines can have vacuum applied to both sides, so they get a very effective vacuum on an area of waste. You don't end up suffering from loss of vacuum across the length of the well. One of the really key things to understand about the installation of landfill gas systems is that you want it in and you want it in early. When you are considering setting up a contract for a landfill gas installation, particularly around council procurement time frames, is quite often your landfill gas contractor will suggest or prefer a build-on or operate time structure because, as we know, landfill active faces move around all the time. And if we want to be getting infrastructure in and active as soon as possible, a lot of councils don't have the capital available to just pop one of these lines. And as soon as an area of waste is moved, active faces move somewhere else. In terms of that actual installation, how wide a trench are you putting it in? You can see the trenching there in the photo, so it's not a huge amount of trenching that's required. They all allowed one silly question everywhere in Victoria. I was looking at the drawing. Shall we move to the next slide? Thank you. So your secondary infrastructure are your flow lines. Now, flow lines take the consolidated flow from a series of wells that are all pulled together to a manifold point, and then they distribute the gas back to one of your combustion devices. So flow lines are very important because you have to consider the movement and settlement of the waste masses you go. So your designer will look at the nature of the flow lines and you may end up with surface flow lines, or you may end up with subsurface flow lines, depending on the fall that is required. There's a couple of different ways to set up your flow lines. You have a branch system, which is similar to the picture of the diagram here. If you want to, when you've got a central mainline going back to a point, the considerations for design on these types of systems is there a lot of the loss of vacuum across the length of the system. Can I flip the slides? Is that numerically modelled, or how do you do that? That is down to the designers, which I take my head off to the engineer and designers of our business. They will do all the numbers. Okay. So the other option for your flow lines and your main line is to go out to a ring main. So having a ring main on LLN Phil's gas system means that you are equalising the vacuum that's delivered to all of your flow lines. So you suffer a lot less from the issue of distance and vacuum applied. One of the other good points with the main lines is that if you have a failure, it's a lot easier to troubleshoot and you will still have vacuum applied to the system if you get a blockage in a certain area. They do add a little bit more cost to a LN Phil's gas system, but they do result in a very effective delivery of vacuum to a site. With your remains, it's really important to work with your designers and LN Phil's gas designers and your engineer and consultants to look at the location of those remains. If they're sitting at the top of the battle, they suffer a lot less from differential sediment issues as well and get a lot less surging as a result of continuous state in the lines. So what actually causes surging in a LN Phil's gas system with the vacuum is condensate on these things. So as LN Phil's gas is extracted from a warm damp environment, the pressure and temperature changes as you go from the inside of the waste mass down to the surface. It means that you get the moisture condensing within the LN Phil's gas pipes and main lines of flow lines. So that also brings contaminants up and informs pools of liquid. So your system needs maintenance and it needs to be managed to ensure that when your differential sediment happens, you don't get bowing in your flow lines or your main lines because your condensate will then drain down and pull and block the ability of vacuum to reach your manifolds. So they're not set in forget systems. You do have to actively manage them. What we do to look out for condensate buildup within our flow lines and main lines is there are these type of systems here. So you put condensate traps in. So there's examples of P-traps, J-traps and also you can use barometric traps as well. So those allow condensate to drain out of the system and prevent blocking and searching. What, when would you choose which particular one to use? What's the plus? It all really depends on, that really depends on your contractor and how they prefer to build the different components within their system. So thankful for the experience of your contractor will assist you in working out how many of these traps you need and the type of trap that's suitable for the region that you're putting it in. Once you've set up, is it pretty hard to go and retrofit these things or are they often retrofitted later? They can be retrofitted later, absolutely. It all depends on when you've had to put your flow lines subsurface or you've been able to lay them on the surface for fault finding purposes. Yeah. All right, next slide. Now I'm only going to touch a little bit on the destruction units other than to say, so you've put your landfill gas system infrastructure system under vacuum. And that vacuum is generated by a blower that is part of your gas skid. So your landfill gas flaring skid has a condensate management apparatus. It'll have a blower, it'll have a burner, the stack unit and all the safety and control systems there. Despite that they don't actually take up a huge amount of room. So there's a nice picture there, kind of indicating the size that's required to actually have a flare. Flayers come in a range of sizes so you can get ones for low flow situations for particularly close landfills or small landfills. And then they can go right up to sort of a 2,000 per hour system so it can be very large. Your flayers are necessary if you're looking to generate power on a site because you're looking to confirm your flow and your methane content of your system. So quite often the landfill gas system will start off with the infrastructure in the ground connected to a flare. Then you'll run your flare for a period of time to understand how much flow you're actually going to be able to achieve. And then from there you'll be able to justify the ability to have a power station on the site as well. There's no flame in an enclosed flare stack so in terms of community involvement all you can see is a nice sort of hazy stack output. Next slide. So those flare systems are they leased to the site operator or do they purchase an outright? What's the model that you use on this? So there's a lot of different models around that. There's a few flare manufacturers you can look at either whether you want to own a flare, rent a flare or you can have your landfill gas system owned or operated and managed by your landfill gas contractor. In terms of the management of a flare they are a specialist piece of kit. And if you are a council we're looking to own a flare you have to sort of remember that they do take a considerable amount of maintenance and management. And to ensure that you have the capacity to do the maintenance and the monitoring to make sure they're burning efficiently and they are meeting the destruction requirements. When you say considerable amount of maintenance, what are we talking about? Well, so it's really management. In terms of the flare has to be managed in line with the gas field. So the tuner will come and look at the requirements of the gas inputs that the flare needs to support combustion. And then they will tune the field so they go out to the manifold stations. You have to remember that the waste mass is not a consolidated single amount of waste that all went into the ground at the same time. So it's all in different stages of gas production depending on the age and types of waste, convection waste in this cell. So each of your wells is going to be producing a slightly different composition of gas. So we go out and tune the field based on the requirements of the flare. In terms of maintenance, you've got to maintain your gas flows to the flare. Okay, so it's as much about the composition coming into the flare as looking after the flare itself. Next slide. Yes, please. Then we sort of turn our attention to the actual beneficial uses of the gas. So in our preferential triangle for resource recovery, we all know that if you can do something with your waste stream as opposed to just doing the conversion, that's really where we want to be. We want to take the energy out of the gas and use it for something. So if you are able to support more than just a flare, there's a number of options. You can use your landfill gas to power internal reciprocating engines, internal combustion engines, gas turbines. You can use that to charge generators to send electricity to the network. There's some very smart people who've started putting battery systems onto the landfill gas capture, which is excellent for grid stability because you can continue capturing your landfill gas, maintain that energy and then send it to the network when the network requires it. So you're really stabilizing that. There's heat recovery systems and you can use the gas. They're starting to look at grid gas capture and purification of the landfill gas streams, then a brutal use of that methane into the gas network in the form of lipofine natural gas or compressed natural gas as well. So there's a lot going on in the space of beneficial landfill gas usage. You think we're getting better at extracting the gas? Is it a bit like sort of the coal seam gas industry where they've perfected getting more out or has the technology stayed the same for the last 20 odd years? I just remember there used to be a facility out at Springvale that was hooked up to power. Has it changed much over that 30 year period or? It's changed immensely. There's a number of sites where we have gone and introduced upgrade projects under the Emissions Production Fund and introduced new technologies that have improved our gas capture, you know, double gas capture on some of the sites. So some of the improvements that we've made is definite improvements to flare configurations so we can run flares on less gas than we used to be able to. So more smaller projects are viable these days than they used to be. We've also got new technologies available. So we have what's called a siloxane removal system. So that's introduced within your gas conditioning scheme. That removes almost 99, or almost 99.8% of the siloxanes in the gas landfill gas stream. So siloxanes come from a lot of products that are put into the landfills like soaps and shampoos and things like that. Siloxane in an engine is terrible, gums up the pistons and creates a lot of maintenance requirements. So if you clean your gas before you put it into your engine, the lowering of maintenance costs and you're making these engines much more efficient and economical will run so the projects become much more viable. Would the just roughly like the value of that system there we've got in front of us, what sort of money is involved in setting up something that big? Look, the thing that makes these systems financially viable is not only the ACCU generation from the greenhouse gas capture but selling renewable energy into the grid. These systems also generate the large generation certificates for displacing coal or coal-fired power in the network with renewables. So there's that balance between the systems available to fund them and actually getting these installed. Yes, there's lots of zeros on the end. I figured there might be, but in the end they're making money out of these investments. Next slide. Yes. So I guess the question that we see a lot is, oh boy, that looks complicated. I'm not sure I'm ready to handle that. And I want to put the challenge out to everybody is that you've got your landfill gas expert to help. So give us a call. There's some great companies all around Australia who do this. They are more than willing to help you and support you. Talk to your procurement people. There's excellent consultants, engineers, and there's great consultants who specifically sit in that landfill gas space there that are there to support you to get through these processes. And if we can look over, I think we've got a message from the Mayor of Gimpy, which is a region in Queensland who is just talking about his landfill gas system and what it means to his community. Let's hear him. What are you waiting for? I mean, it's not rocket science. Your landfill produces gas. It either goes uncontrolled into the atmosphere or you partner with an appropriate company to deal with that. And actually reduce your greenhouse gas emissions, the toxic nature of the gases that are released in an appropriate manner. And I don't know what you say to someone that can't get over that hurdle. It's a simple win for us at the Council as it's no cost and a hell of a benefit to the environment. So, you know, the lady over there should be done. Well, he sounds convinced, doesn't he, Victoria? Recognising that these systems are really big. They've been used for a long time and we've got to get over this hurdle of ensuring that people recognise this landfill gas is an issue that we need to deal with. We can use it as a resource and we can use these opportunities, funding opportunities that we have available to get this in action now at no or low cost to our communities. Why are we doing it? If I own a landfill now and I want to explore this, is that the best thing for them to just reach out to yourself in the first instance? Is that what we're saying? And then you'll be able to introduce them to the team of different people and consultants that could help them go through that exercise. Is that? Absolutely. We tend to do a lot of talks to councillors and to the people who make the higher end decisions and sort of give them this background on why it's so important to have these systems in place and the importance of using the funding mechanisms now before they are out of place by the regulation that's coming. Is there any funding available for doing feasibility assessments? I'm not 100% sure on that one. It would be something that would be great if the regulator is looking at making this a requirement. Maybe they can support councillors and look at having these fun pools of funding for feasibility studies for councillors. Your landfill gas provider has a lot of expertise in this area and we have modelling available that we can be fairly confident in giving you a range of potential gas production rates and what you could potentially look at doing and then integrating into your programme of works. So if I want to get a feasibility study done, I'd contact yourselves and then do you get independent consultants involved or that would be the site operators would go off and do that separate once you've done your feasibility study. So there's multiple options. You can engage a consultant directly. Companies, landfill gas companies will quite often be able to do a desktop study for you once if you can supply them with some information. The government has a calculator that is available that we will use to look at what your potential landfill gas emissions rates are and then your gas provider will be able to see if they can match that to the infrastructure. It's really up to the councillors as to what their preferred pathway is. All right. So in terms of the only thing that really matters in the world is monitoring, of course, behind the camera. Would you like to talk briefly to this slide and then we'd better move to the Q&A side of things pretty quickly after this, I think. So landfill gas monitoring is exceptionally important in our world and it sits really at every level of our operations. So we have personal gas monitoring with our staff throughout the site. So quite often you can have your benefits and use stations actually subsurface. So it ends up being in closed space. So we have to make sure that it's safe for our personnel to go in there. We have been monitoring at many different levels throughout the gas extraction process for quite a few different reasons. So we monitor at the wellhead. We look at the gas composition. So different ages and different compositions of waste will be producing different balances of CO2 to methane. What we're trying to do is collect all of those different balances of methane and deliver it to our flaring or our energy generation station at the correct ratio for the type of combustion that you're trying to target. We also need to measure our flows. So that's done through differential pressure at the wellhead. We have to monitor our engines for performance and our systems performance. So we're looking at NOx generation levels and how much oxygen fuel balance we have engine monitoring as well. We also have to monitor our carbon set collection levels. And, you know, particularly if we're using automated systems to deliver condensate back into the landfills or to treatment plants treatment plants. And then there's a lot of the requirements for the environmental monitoring such as your boundary monitoring and your fugitive emissions as well. Very good. Might just go straight to skip over this slide probably. So there's a range of guidance documentation that you can source for further information. These webinars are recorded and put on to our website. So feel free to have a look at those guidelines separately. Obviously there's a range of equipment such as portable and inline sensors that are utilized as well. So thank you very much, Victoria. That was actually really, really interesting. A couple of sort of key lessons learned that I think worth reiterating that land for gas extraction can occur as early as end of first lift. So that was the learning for myself. So you don't need to wait for your cap to be on these landfill cells. As soon as you've got your first lift in is a bit of an imperative to really get in there and start grabbing that gas as it's generated to minimize the losses. There's a lot of work associated with achieving optimum function of these things and monitoring is a big part of that. I was surprised at how much of it's still done manually. That monitoring data is important in terms of understanding the gas composition, but also the moisture. This moisture in the gas creates quite a lot of technical challenges both from a monitoring perspective and also for the function of the flares, etc. Good communication is essential. We've sort of been trying to tease out from Victoria the process that you need to go through to get this up and going. But it does require a lot of communication between the site operators themselves, the landfill gas managers like Victoria and consulting engineers. So there's a bit of a crossover. There's a need for really good collaboration there to have a successful project. Importantly, there are financial incentives. These things don't have to cost people money in terms of over the life of the project and they are good for the environment. Really, we heard from the mayor of Gympie. I think it was that it's a bit of a no brainer. We should really get on and be doing this. Also, good monitoring is always critical in everything you do, but particularly if you're trying to prove that you are actually reducing your greenhouse gas emissions. So a lot of learnings there and I thought that was fantastic. Without further ado, we're going to charge into our questions. Okay, and thank you very much for the early bird questions. You now have the benefit of going first. Victoria, we have a lot of questions in front of us and we've still got a lot of people here on the webinar. It's likely to run for probably an extra half an hour, I would think. I presume that's okay with you. If not, speak up. So the first question. Can biochar be used to help reduce methane emissions from landfill? Yeah, this is a really interesting question. I guess we can kind of look at it. I wonder whether we are talking about the use of biochar within a capping system or whether we're sort of looking at the concept of using activated carbon as a filter within an inline gas stream. So I guess in terms of the capping, the concept of using biochar to oxidise the gases is there is definite potential there. I guess in terms of a landfill gas extraction system that's actively under vacuum, we've got to remember that if you've got your system under vacuum, most of the gases should be coming toward the system as opposed to out through the cap. So there may be a place for it in the future. I definitely would love to see some studies on how that reduces emissions. In terms of if we were looking at using activated carbon within an inline filter, one of the key issues with that is probably the moisture content that they forget is usually sitting out with the condensate. All right. Good answer. Question number two. This is all about monitoring this one. Evaluating performance of gas extraction. Distance of observation bores to assess effectiveness, placement and design and diameter of those bores. Do you want to have a run at that one, Laura? Oh, you can go for it. So I will have to say that I'm not particularly an expert on the boundary monitoring the distances. There are some very, very good documents that have been produced already by the regulators around the country. So things like your BEPM, I think you had a reference to a few of those documents, the BEPM in Victoria and the Maple Gas Guidelines in New South Wales that talk to observation bores. There are a lot of really good guidance documents and I think if you were looking at assessing that, we'll probably want to go to see those ones first. So I misunderstood the question maybe, but I thought they were angling more for not so much the sort of compliance monitoring side of things, but more I guess the extent of the vacuum that's being achieved was what I, how I read that, but I might be wrong, but performance of gas extraction in the sense of capture as distinct from identifying whether or not there was fugitive emissions is similar, but how do you? Sorry. That's a really big question. So there are models that are published around the generation capture efficiency. We tend to find there's a little bit of, a little bit of a misalignment between the models and what we see in real life in terms of the complexity of the model because you have to take into account that it's mixed waste that is put into the landfill at different time frames. So you might have a profile of waste that's with a single ball through it that has very old waste at the bottom and very fresh waste at the top. Each of those different levels of ways to produce in quite different gas compositions. So understanding and predicting what how much gas and well should be receiving is very, very complex. When we monitor the well hits what we're really doing is trying to ensure that we are extracting what we would expect to be extracting from that well based on the models that we have available and tuning to our field conditions. We would also be looking to ensure that the gas composition isn't indicating something else is going on in the waste. So for instance, if you are overdrawing well and you pull oxygen in that conversion from anaerobic to aerobic is actually exothermic, so you can heat up an area of waste. And if you're supplying it with heat and oxygen, you can start fires underground. So when you're producing landfill fires, landfill fires obviously produce gases and it will change the gas mix that you receive at the well hits. So monitoring isn't just looking at capture efficiency. It's also looking trying to understand what's actually going on within the waste mass around that well as well. If you do create an internal fire, can you claim the accused on that? If it's producing combustible gases, I suppose you would be claiming accused for flow. It might be hard to verify. Alright, question number three, how do the design, construction and validation regulatory requirements in Victoria compared to those in the rest of Australia? So I myself have worked mostly in the sort of the Queensland, New South Wales area. Victoria has their department and its guidance and that's sort of treated by the industry as really kind of a gold standard. It's a very good document for landfill gas management. We've got those guidance documents in the slides as well for people to have a look at. Question number four, more a comment. The carbon mapper project can be used by the general public and regulators to see point sources of greenhouse gases, including landfill. Are you familiar with that carbon mapper project? Yeah, so the carbon mapper project is it's a really interesting sort of concept and we're seeing more and more of these services that are using things like satellites and drone plane technology to assist point sources of greenhouse gas emissions. I guess you sort of have to take into consideration there's around about 30 landfills in the country that accept 75% to 80% of all waste that's generated because it's really those ones that are situated around large population spaces. So I'm sure that for the large landfills are generating a lot of methane because they're accepting a lot of waste, you know, they might pop up on this carbon mapper projects. I'm just not sure the sensitivity of these analyses for say smaller landfills or landfills that are closed but it would be really interesting to see how going forward that technology improves to sort of see these smaller sites. Because I know as somebody who's worked regionally, there are a lot of landfills out there that are not regulated because they were in place a long, a long time ago. And you only know about them because I'll make a statement that once upon a time you used to use the old landfill down on Pine Creek Road. Yeah, there's plenty of them around. I was wondering with the carbon mapper if you have got one of your gas extraction systems on it then it's no longer on that register is that right it would come off. Not 100% sure I have to have to look at what limitations they're putting on those systems. Next question would like to know if sacrificial horizontal gas collection is happening in Australia. If so where is it beneficial from cost. So, this is really good question. This is looking at those two types of primary infrastructure where you can put a well vertically in a ground in the ground or you could go horizontally across a lift. Obviously, we've been improving our technologies as we go along because you know, theoretically it's much more to get the horizontal, your lateral lines in and get your gas capture going as early as possible. But that also means that these, these pipes that are under the ground are going to end up under a quite a profile of waste. If you think about the amount of waste that ends up on top of laterals that are in the lower lifts. Now, they probably started with a lower grade design, but now as we've improved our technologies we know and we, we align the horizontal wells and use a thickness of pipe that is more suitable to, you know, the profile of the waste that goes on top of them if you're putting the lower ends of your line, but you can sort of expect to get around about 10 years or so out of a lateral installation. So you get a fairly decent return on the extent for the ability to get in there early and get your gas capture going as early as possible. Okay. Question number six, I would love to know about the impact of landfill gases or leachate on soil and what is best practice? So this parks back to the question about how damaging methane is. So if you have lateral migration of methane through the soil profile, which can be usually within dissolved gases or dissolved within liquids, but methane will actually displace oxygen and can be fine spaces. So what can happen is your soil pores can fill up with methane that displaces the oxygen and your tree growths don't have the oxygen they're required to survive. So you actually do get dieback and vegetation and it's one of the key indicators when you're looking for fugitive emissions from lateral migration is you see lots of vegetation dieback in particular areas and that's when you know you're having lateral migration problems. What it also does is the roots of trees don't tend to like to grow towards places that the environments that are not conducive to growth. So if you have a lateral migration problem, you're going to end up getting very shallow roots and you'll find you'll have trees that fall over very easily because their roots don't have the space to grow. So it's really important to, you've got to have a nice buffer of trees around your landfill to manage your landfill gas really well. Otherwise you're going to have problems with your vegetation buffer. And what about the leachate element? Do you want to talk to that? Leachate migration through soils, obviously leachate contains all sorts of nasties, heavy metals, nice biologicals, things like that. Again, there's migration of nitrogen through soils. You can get overgrowth of bacteria, which consumes oxygen. And again, you make the oxygenated area and you have vegetation dieback. You get transport and heavy metals. It's really, really not a nice, not a nice situation. So, you know, the two things that your landfill produces, your landfill gas and leachate, you really need to be actively managed to ensure you don't get environmental damage occurring. The other one is just, you know, the dissolved solids themselves, you know, salt in the end is a problem. Discharging, sometimes forgotten. Next question. What opportunities are there for using the heat generated from gas flares? Is it ever used for leachate evaporation? That's a good question. Yeah, so over the progression of technologies in the landfill gas base, there's lots of places that we've gone with the use of, a significant use of heat that's generated. Also, using the actual gas to directly evaporate the chain. So there's some providers out there. I know that Benetera actually use landfill gas within their system. LGI have partnered with Benetera at a site recently to use to supply gas from our system into the leachate evaporation. So it's a really exciting space. There's definitely more technologies that can come up order to use the light and heat or to use the gas for beneficial reuse purposes. Question. Best way to monitor fugitive landfill gas? Well, we might skip over that one. We had covered that previously in other webinars. So there are several techniques. You can use continuous monitors. You can use spot measurements. You can use drones. So we might cover that in another one. Question 9. Some comment on the use of compost biofilter layers, effectiveness, best practice design? Yeah, so LGI is particularly in the compost or biofilter space. We're more in the active gas space, but there is some really exciting research and some biofilters that are in place and being used at the moment. I would really suggest that you have a chat to some of the researchers who work on these biofilters because they have a really good handle on them. We've been involved in a couple of studies there, including the project to design a monitoring system to assess the effectiveness of that. So perhaps if that person wants to shoot us an email, I can come back with a bit more detail on that. Next question. Are there viable remote sensing solutions for monitoring fugitive emissions in landfill? Yes, there are. There's drones that are being used. In terms of satellites, I'm not sure. Victoria, do you have any knowledge around the use of satellites for this? So I'm not certain on the sensitivity of satellites for landfill gas monitoring other than for identifying the point source of emissions. I'm not sure that they go down to being able to actually locate, say, a crack in a cap to understand where the peers need to be made. But the satellites are being used, I know, particularly in the States for identifying the point source so that there is a landfill and that it is producing fugitive emissions, but not particularly down in the sort of more finer scale. It would be interesting to understand the resolution they're getting to because I know it's, you know, these days we can use it for looking at pretty small movement in dam walls and things. I might have a look into that. Next question. What types of odorous gases, such as macaptans and carcinogens, are in our tip gas? Yeah, look, I guess the one that everybody's feeling familiar with is the hydrogen sulfide. That's the nice sort of rotten egg smell you get in your close to a landfill that isn't being managed well. So that tends to be generated particularly from landfalls that have high construction and demolition wastes. So for reducing bacteria in there that convert your gypsum from your fiberboard plasterboard in the right conditions into the hydrogen sulfide that really sort of messes with landfill gas sensing systems. But the temperatures that we run out layers at, you know, it's, it's hitting, hitting the flame at 1000 degrees. So we are really, you know, doing a lot of destruction and not just anything but these other components within the landfill gas stream. So we do testing, stack emissions testing to ensure, you know, to measure these type of compounds that come out as well. But during the commissioning side of things, is there, you know, do you go through a really high level of rigor in terms of looking at a, I guess, a really broad range of contaminants that might be coming out? It's a, we do stack emissions testing, we do backtesting, particularly when we first construct as a manufacturer as we first construct and then, you know, we do them on site as well. The tough thing with emissions profiles of contaminants and concern is that they can be incredibly broad. And a lot of the time we have to have standards to be able to match these contaminants against. And quite often we don't have the analytical testing processes to really understand, you know, and the sensitivity in the tests to actually get down low enough to see the parts per billion levels. It's a, it's a, it's a balancing act between ensuring that we're managing, you know, the methane and the, the componentry that they forecast in the know are really, really harmful and then looking at these various small levels of other things that are also in there. But it's obviously something that as an industry and within the chemistry space that we need to continuously improve on and always look towards ensuring that we are doing our best for the environment to be profile. Congratulations, Victoria. You've got through the early bird questions. Now we're moving to the Q&A side of things. We have 20 questions here. That means one minute per question roughly. So we'll see how we go. First question. How do you evaluate the performance of gas extraction? So we, we take the waste data that we supplied from the landfill operator and put that into the model and we look at what we are expecting to get out of the landfill. And then we look at what we do get out of the landfill and we ensure that we are looking at the right level of gas extraction. We monitor all of our equipment at every level. So we ensure that all of our gas lines are operational so that we can get the best extraction out. We always try and make sure that we have a profile of wells that are in and that there's enough active wells within areas to be capturing to the best ability. We do very regular monitoring. So depending on the age and the type of waste, there's a different requirement for how often you will need to go out and do your tunes. So we look really carefully. We know probably more about the landfill than we really, you're really comfortable than we know. Okay, so that question was from Natasha Villa. Thanks Natasha. Next questions from Bettina Zimmerman. A lot of operational landfill licenses including the ones amended under the new EPA act do not necessarily request landfill gas extraction. And then there's another, I think part of that question, would a recommendation from an environmental order to be sufficient to get the landfill gas extraction requirement included in a license? Look, this is this is where as an industry we need to be working really carefully together because if we go ahead and use the stick and put it, you know, a really hard reference to regulating landfill gas extraction. We make it a lot harder for these, these councils of landfill operators who, you know, mainly working on these type budgets to be able to install these systems under the, the bit of funding schemes that we have available. So I think it's really the point that I would really like to see is to have as many operators proactively seeking and installing these systems as soon as they can. And then, you know, have a, have a communication with the industry and say like, you know, you've got a couple of years to sort this out. And after that time, we're going to regulate. And then that makes sure that we can, we've got as effective saturation of the landfill network as we can. But it's about making sure that we're not just putting a huge amount on us on on the councils to put the assistance and, you know, they are quite pricey. It's an interesting little gap in regulation really isn't it like. It really is. Yeah, doesn't make much sense that you would have thought that the audit process or any licenses you know that annual review would be leading to a more time lease of catch up. So there's a challenge to the auditors time to fill the gap, I guess. I just want to make one more comment and then that section here is that the way that the regulation is set up at the moment and the funding is set up is that because we're generating these a 60 years, we are incentivised to chase the gas to a absolute best of our ability. So if you regulate and you say to someone you have to put a gas system in the years you run the risk of getting just a basic system that may not be capturing, you know, the absolute maximum amount of gas can do. So we just need to be that in line to another little question related to this is you mentioned earlier once the regulation mandates a certain. I guess management of this gas then we lose some of the benefit of having a low bar at the moment. If in order to make a recommendation associated with a particular site to put in a plan for gas capture system are we lifting the bar and therefore they can't claim as much improvement. I think it's the regulatory burden threshold. So I think it's got to be a licensing requirement. It's a little bit of gray area at the moment. I would like to see the communication, maybe just the recognition that the length of operators. This needs to come in as a priority and there's other ways other than ordering to get that in there and I'm looking to use sustainability managers and your waste strategy consultants. You know, it's a crime in the 2023 that we were going through this process of looking at our long term waste strategies and they still don't have reference to a landfill gas extraction. You know, it should be something if councils are spending 60% of its greenhouse gas quota on landfill gas emissions, there should be a reference to landfill gas in the sustainability programs. So there's many levels at which we can look at this problem. It actually sounds like something that whammer could take on, you know. Whammer. Whammer, a fervent supporter of landfill gas. Come on, Whammer. All right. Thanks for those questions, Patina. Next question is from Jo McLean. What factors influence how deep. Oops, I think we might have deleted it. I know they're, you know, what, what factors influence how deep the wells should be. That's a great question. So not only are you looking at ensuring that your zones of influence sort of align really well, but you need to look at your waste depth and that's particularly looking at the geometry of your landfill when you're doing your design. So when you're installing wells, the number one thing is to protect your liner. So if you've got a HDP liner or a composite line cell, you want to make sure that your wells go down to a depth where you're not going to puncture that liner or have a, you know, force waste into it. So you normally stop short of the liner. That depends on, you know, who's, who's doing your design and construction. And there's a few different values around the different regulations, sort of give a few meters of space to make sure you're not going to hit it. If you've got a clay lined landfill or a landfill where you have a legacy issue where it didn't have a liner at all. You want to probably be extracting as much gas as you possibly can, because the risk of that gas migrating outweighs the risk of you touching the soil at the bottom, the clay at the bottom. So you would probably go as close to full depth as you, your operator feels comfortable. Right, the next question is an anonymous one. What's your experience with horizontal extraction lines and settlement? Are they a long term solution? Or do they get compromised over time? What we're seeing with the way that landfill operators have improved their operation techniques, you know, our compaction rates are getting a lot better than they used to be. So what differential sediment profile is not as great. So if you have a lift of reasonably uncompacted waste, you get this going on and your lateral lines, you have to put quite a bit of fall on them so that you don't end up with condensate buildup and things like that. But as we improve our landfilling practices, we improve the management of our lateral installations. So you always install them to, you know, to the best of your ability at your time and they will fail. All of these pieces with the landfill do eventually fail from aging or sun damage or differential settlement. But it's getting that longevity out of them before you have to do a redraw. So it's really about managing that in line with your compaction and operation side of things. Which is why the communication with your landfill operator is so typical. Related question a little bit further down. So how often is it maintained and how are the blockages identified? So that's a fairly common thing is to have blockages in these systems. You'll usually pick them up when you do the tuning. So you'll notice that there's such a pressure is building, but maybe your gas levels are decreasing. So that sort of indicates blockages in the system. A lot of the time you can actually the 10th site and if you can hear the scene, you can tell that they're surging in a line. It actually sounds like the ocean coming in, the waves coming in and out. So that's a good indicator that you've got condensate buildup. You can look at actually just the layer of your system. You've got a differential settlement occurring and you've got a big bow in it. You can pretty much guarantee that there's going to be condensate building up in the bottom of that bow. So it's really about monitoring and maintaining your landfill done to recognise when you've got blockages. And then going back and fixing those. So a bulkage may be something as simple as a well filling up with leach act. You work with your landfill operator to help them reduce the leach act. So that could be, you know, tracking it offside or that could be doing a bit of recirculation to get your new genesis back up. And then you've reduced your leach act volume and you will come back online and you'll see that when you go and do your regular monitoring. It may be sediment buildup. So you're never going to get back from that one. You've blocked your, you've blocked your well. It's full of sediment. So that would probably require a re-drill. When you re-drill your wells, you've got to be mindful about your zones of influence. There's no point in putting a new well next to another well that's already operating because you're leading up with competing vacuum. Yeah, much trouble with perching of leach act sort of in discreet allows that might clog up these. Story of my life. Absolutely. So often the older landfill practices need that the day cover wasn't stripped off between layers. The installation of landfill gas systems actually can assist in those situations because we are drilling down through the cover material and you actually sort of pop that area. So we have to be mindful when we're drilling about the areas of perched leach act. And also it leads to a lot of dry waste. If you've got quite thick layers of, of interim cover and day cover still within the landfill cell. It'd be interesting to get your take on how much leach act is perched in any landfill versus actually sitting down on the line. That'll be a chat for another day. Next questions from John Lufthun Steiner. We have a closed landfill site for approximately 20 years it's been closed with three cells that have some passive gas vents. Would this be suitable I'm suspecting the answer is yes Victoria would like to have a chat. I would love to have a chat. I want to give you an example of a land deal that we have had a gas system on. It closed in 1997. It is 2023 now, we are still extracting enough gas from that landfill to power an engine. So landfill gas happens for a very long time. When you look at a lot of the development of the early gas models. One of the interesting things you'll see is they don't have any time frames on them. They just have composition ratios. And I think we're getting to this piece now where we're starting to understand how far out that gas production actually goes. So it's definitely worth talking to your landfill gas provider and getting another assessment done for sure. Well we'll send through John's contact data and Victoria. Next question is from William Dylan. Is it viable to install a landfill gas extraction system on a legacy bracket online landfill, which, which is predominantly saturated with leachate. So that's a that's a great question. Again, I'm going to come back to the piece of we irrespective of what it is you should get an assessment about whether it's the right geometry for landfill gas extraction for closed cells. With the installation of vertical wells, you know, you really want to be getting a decent height of piping into the waste. So if you've got an old shallow landfill, they tend to not be particularly great for gas extraction. But quite often these landfill these old landfills were backfills and quarries and things. So they tend to be quite suitable for gas extraction. It doesn't seem to be, you know, a real requirement of having a liner on the bottom because we just modulate the amount of vacuum applied to make sure that we're targeting waste and not pulling oxygen in from outside of that waste. So in that sort of situation where it is saturated, would you also put in some kind of a leachate dewatering system and recirculate it or how would you? Absolutely great opportunity to deal with a wet landfill and manage the landfill gas at the same time. So they're the multi-purpose vertical wells that you can put in. And I know that there's a lot of technologies out there. There's really smart pumps that go into landfills that can be solar powered or they can be gas driven. So you don't have to have mains power to pump out your leachate. A lot of the time the challenges with removing leachate from those type of landfills is if the landfill is already saturated, you know, you don't want to be probably recirculated. You don't want to be recirculated too much. You want to be taking that off site and dealing with it. You know, so it's storage capacity and transport where those 10 things tend to fall down in terms of cost benefit. But the infrastructure itself would give you an opportunity to deal with both of those products in one go. If you want to see a good example of that, there's one on our website actually, solar pad leachate extraction system. There's a little plug. Next question, anonymous attendee. Takeda for any low flows or nil flow, do you need to have a standby pilot volume to ensure flame is always burning? So this is about sort of matching your landfill gas production rate to your destruction equipment. So this is really up to your landfill gas provider to make sure that they have the most appropriate flare size for the volume of gas that your landfill is being produced. The flare size really comes down to the burner configuration to make sure that your burners are set up in the appropriate orientation to be able to manage the flow rates that are coming out. The flows are balanced against the methane requirements. So if you are having quite a high carbon dioxide percentage in your gas extraction, you're actually going to put the flat and your flare out. You know, carbon dioxide, we use it in our fire extinguishers to smother flame. So it's really about finding that balance. And that all comes down to your shooting, your technicians going out and shooting the field, ensuring that you've got sufficient wells and waste and planning for what's going to happen after your active extraction system isn't suitable to support a flame. You know, there's these things like intermittent flaring, or you can use a top-up gas, which kind of is a bit counter-intuitive. You know, if you're using these as a carbon abatement source, you don't really want to be burning in natural gas to burn with your gas, to burn your other gas, because you're doubling your problem there. Sounds like doubling the accounting problem too. So with these intermittent flares, you've got a continuous monitor running, do you? That would be sort of a scenario where, you know, the rate at which your waste is producing gas is sort of too low to support a continuous flame. So if you have your wells turned down low, the gases will build up and your landfill and sort of give you a bit of a shred that you would combust. But it's not really an area that we are sort of sitting in as a company because we really want to be doing that. That active gas extraction on landfills. Right. All right, next questions from James Stewart. How are we going for time? We're bang on two o'clock now. Might just charge through a few of these. If that's all right, Victoria, can you give us another 10 minutes? Certainly. There's still about 60 odd people on. So a lot of interest. Are any landfill gas projects in Australia issuing credits other than accused? I believe this is probably sitting in the realms of whether you're generating power and you are generating those large generation certificates where you're using the renewable energy to displace the carbon-based energy into the grid. And so, yeah, I believe a lot of the energy-based projects would be doing that. And whose job is it to work that out, like for the customer? Is that done by yourselves or? That's absolutely a service that the LGI does. We can do no packaging of that type of thing. There's consultants out there that do that as well. So it's really up to the landfill gas operator. It's a nice, concise system if you're operating and you maintain the control of the data within the system to do the reporting as well. Otherwise it gets a bit piecemeal between sending data and analysing data. We tend to prefer to package that all up. Yeah. Okay. Next question going back. How commonly, oops. How commonly are siloxane removal systems installed on landfill gas systems? And what is your view on the future of siloxane as a potential contaminant of concern with respect to regulation? Yeah, look, so siloxane removal systems obviously add an additional cost to a landfill gas installation. What you would do is you would assess the gas input quality first to make a decision about whether you needed an SRS on your landfill gas system. And so particularly for the really, really old staple landfills, they tend to have lower siloxane levels just with the different types of waste that went in, you know, in the really old waste. I would say probably for newer landfills, you're looking at a high contaminant profile just with the types of waste that go in the ground. But it's definitely a case of assessing your landfill case by case as to what it requires. Right. And who does that assessment? Is that yourself? We can do that absolutely. So we would look at it during the clearing, the start of the project and assess it. How long does that feasibility sort of sort of things take before people, like you mentioned, you could get a project up and running in six months. Does that include that sort of thing? So how it sort of tends to work is that we would get a flare installation set up and going. In terms of getting engines on onto a site, there's additional timeframes around that. So, you know, you can pretty much assess the quality of your gas flows and the stability of your gas flow and feeling short space of time. With an engine, you have to remember there's that additional network connection piece that is usually what takes a vast portion of the time of getting an engine onto a site. So when we're assessing the viability for putting engines on site, we have to look at the actual location of the engine and comparison to where it needs to go into the network. You know, do we need to install new poles or new wires, upgrade the lines? Is it safe to do? There's a big piece there. We haven't really discussed at this point, which is the ability to deliver energy to adjacent co-located facilities behind the meter. So for instance, at a site in Queensland, we are clearing the landfill gas, converting that gas to electricity, and we're supplying a sewage treatment plant, which is right next door to the landfill. So we're using most of that energy to power that plant, which reduces the energy costs for the council using its own landfill as a resource to manage its wastewater treatment. That's a really impressive sort of project, isn't it? In that instance, were you proactive in terms of sourcing how the power could be used or they had another consultant involved in looking at the reuse or the use of the power? So this is part of the project development, part of getting an assessment on site. So for your landfill contracts, we won't just look at how much your landfill is producing. We look at it as a resource and an asset. We look at what else you could do with it, but there's a lot of buy-in from a lot of parties when you're looking at these co-located facilities. You've got to have good relationships with any council if you're looking to supply behind the meter or your neighbours. Those type of things. Okay, then next question I think is from Keith Osborne. Could you please give more details on how siloxons are removed? Also what other gas impurities are removed prior to methane use? I love the question. It's actually a proprietary technology that we have as a business, so I can't go into it too much, but in the essence, there's a media bank that we have. And then once that's full, then we flare that off and convert the siloxons so that they're not in the toxic gas stream. If you want to know, you'll have to engage Victoria for a project, I think. We love to take people around and show them these sit-ups, so feel free to get in touch if you want to come and do a site tour and have a look. It's really, really interesting. Fair enough to Victoria. Next question is from a hydrogeologist, Rod Harwood. One of the issues is the condensate management. How many landfill use recovery wells do you require to increase the drawdown and maximise gas production? I'm not quite sure where we're going with that one. In terms of condensate management, it really depends on the licence of the site. You can put the condensate back into the landfill or whether it needs to go to a treatment plant. Quite often, larger landfills will have some kind of onsite treatment or they have a relationship with this treatment plant. With your condensate, the condensate can actually form a biolayer system. The organic, volatile organics come out. There's some issues with hydrocarbon content sometimes in terms of being able to put that back into the landfills. But we just have to manage it as it comes through. It's really dependent on the operators' management of leachate and the fuel capacity of the waste as to how often and how bad the condensate impacts are. I'm wondering if it was about condensate or more about leachate drawdown, but we'll move on. Suggestions and resources for lobbying local councils to install landfill gas systems. Victoria, you would make this from both sides of the fence. Oh, absolutely. So in terms of lobbying, we've always come out and have a chat to anybody at any level because I think the missing key in the landfill gas piece is just exposure and understanding about what these systems can do, what they mean for your emissions profiles, what they mean for your environmental impact and what they can do as a revenue generation source. So to me, landfill gas has something for everybody. There's something for the environmental people who want to leave a better legacy. There's something for the technology nerds who get into the power side of things or they want to see technology implemented on these sites. There's something for the people in the businesses who want to sit in the carbon space but they want to look at the integrity of their carbon credits and the fact that landfill gas is a tangible, measurable ACCU. You know, there's all sorts of things that we can talk to, you know, we're happy to talk about it and participate in two people working groups and we try and get out to these conferences as much as we can to get the profile. Just as a little lateral thinking moment. You've got these various funds that have mandate to purchase grain, you know, investing grain, grain systems or infrastructure. Sure. Do you ever get investment from those sorts of things like even, you know, sometimes they're a subset of a super fund or that sort of thing is there a way of accessing that sort of funding is. And do these things make enough money for there to be a reasonable return for them. That would be a tricky question to answer actually. Yeah, I sort of sit more in the technical space as opposed to the finance space. But we have a house economist who manages the carbon pricing side of things and the broken type of interactions that we have with external brokers. We have a financial services license to buy and sell ACCUs. So you've got to be aware that it's not as just not just as easy as getting one of these projects registered and getting your carbon credits you've got to be able to do something with them at the end of that. In terms of partnering with, you know, the sort of the larger green groups and things I couldn't really talk to that in terms of our business. So we do that. I remember talking to one of your former colleagues at the conference and mentioned that one of the barriers was actually, you can't really have one of these financial services types on your panel. But you sort of need them on the panel to get these projects executed, which is kind of interesting. There's a potential barrier to some of this. Better keep moving though. Chris. Bored, given the stated improvements in landfill gas extraction technology in the past few decades is the greater than 100 meters cube per hour gas generation rate in the Victorian beppin still a valid lower limit to explore feasibility of active extraction. And this is a, this is a really good question and very, very topical. I know at the moment with the review of the landfill gas. If you have a look at all the research out there, there's just a wide varying array of cubic meters of, you know, tons of methane per cubic meter of waste. I think the range that I've seen is somewhere from, from six to 270. And that is purely down to the fact that it is such a complex, complex system within a landfill because you have waste from different generations that is aging at a different rate. It's just been put into a landfill using, you know, varied improvements and methodology. So it's incredibly hard to, to really predict how much methane, a complex mixed landfill is you can look at it outside in the lab setting and say, you know, this much, this much methane, but, you know, when you mix that up with, you know, table and chairs and some nappies and a whole pile of concrete and some asphalt and, you know, all sorts of things are, you know, there's there's no, there's no quick and fast answer to that unfortunately. What we as an industry are looking into is this concept of capture efficiency. So we're taking the data that we currently have. We're looking at the model and we're going, all right, how much did the model predict and how much did we predict that we should have been able to capture with our landfill gas system. And having a look, you know, what does that figure look like? Is it 50% is the 80% is the 150% and there, there is that range, you know, there's, there's a number of sites that we have that our capture efficiency is really high and above the predictive model range. So we are now in this phase of viewing the data that we have and, you know, potentially looking to improve how we do the calculation side of things. Very good. Now I'm just going to get a little bit selective because we're not keeping up. Sorry, I'm cheating at it too. So some of these I feel we've sort of answered already. There's one here, do smaller scale systems exist that are designed to manage odor production only. That's a good question. I know that H2S generation and ICMD waste is a real issue for landfill gas providers. We see it a lot when we have high levels of say flood waste where we've had a number of demolished buildings sort of put in the same area with the landfill and then you get this real big hit of H2S generation. And H2S is not fun to manage with with landfill gas systems because it really upsets your senses. And it's parts per billion odorists. So you only have to small amount and if you're generating a lot of it, it becomes very, very hard to manage. It also produces acidic acids and can do a lot of damage to equipment. I don't know of any specific odor management systems that sit in the landfill gas space, unfortunately. Okay, next question from Otmar Coleman or Coleman, I'm not sure. I heard in the discussion that methane displaces oxygen when it comes to lead from migration and soil, hence resulting in vegetation dieback. It's possible because methane is the lighter gas than oxygen. The short answer is yes, it happens. In terms of the mechanism of concentrations and that sort of thing. Better explanation. Partial prices, gas migration. No, I think it's as simple as it's just, you know, you can only put as much gas in a particular field space and something has to display something and oxygen goes first. Thank you. What are the different subsidy regimes for flaring versus power generation? The nice thing is that methane is methane, whether you burn it in an engine or whether you burn it in a flare. The difference between the two is the destruction efficiency calculation. So flaring, you sit around 98% and engines, I think they run them as a full 100% in the calculation, but it's not a noticeable difference, no. And I think you mentioned earlier there's a calculator. So Natasha is asking, is there a tool or calculator to work out whether your landfill would benefit from a flare or energy generation system? There is not a calculator for that because you really have to understand parameters as the engine or whatever the destruction system you want to put on there. So I mean, you could do a base sort of calculation if you looked at whatever your engine was and what it required and match that to the gas capture and production calculator. You could sort of do a bit of a rough. But the best thing you can do is just have a chat to the companies that run these systems and they can do that work for you based on your experience. We're going to make this the last question. Victoria, you've been fantastic. Thank you for your extra time. So congratulations to Edward Sorigan for being the lucky last question maker. Guess what? He's got three questions. We're going to bundle them together. So it says, you must take all practicable measures to prevent emissions of landfill gas from exceeding the action levels specified in table 6.4. These are the EPA Vic regs, right? This is out of the best the Beppham. And then it states, practicable measures include but are not limited to installing and running a landfill gas extraction system. And then Edward says, therefore, Victorian EPA licences do require landfill gas capture and treatment. Yeah. We, as a business, don't actually have landfill gas extraction in Victoria at the moment. We spend a lot more of our time serving the New South Wales, ACT, Queensland region. So I would probably ask one of the operators who are operating down in Victoria that question around how they're managing that within their business model for a more precise answer to that. Sorry, I couldn't go any further than that for you. I would hope to speculate. I can't believe the last question we're going to have to find a friend. Thank you very much Victoria for everyone and also to everyone who's turned up today and those fantastic questions. We will come back to those people whose questions we didn't get time to answer today. But I really do think that's probably a record number of questions we've answered in one session, but many things Victoria for presenting today. Fantastic. And that will be it for today. So thanks very much everyone for turning up. It's great.