 here we go okay we're live now you can hit now you can hit you gotta put the uh put mute on our new uh opening song gym on a lot of this stuff yeah but first let us show what the swag we have on today let's behind door number look at me now and we didn't even talk we didn't even talk about ready ready go go there it is go out let go go our our wonderful bods i'll show you mine if you show me yours yeah all right here on the metal voice we are at 1993 we made it i just listened i just got one question jimmy yes jackie long he says this is getting harder and harder i'm not sure what he's referring to it i'm i think he needs a woman he needs a woman yes i think that refers to the music's getting difficult as we approach oh okay 90s uh selection here is i had a really bad visual of something else so so behind the scenes me and alan were fighting so i go alan alan help me with the list and i'll go out and say no jimmy i'm not helping you with this list this year i'm writing it off let's skip 93 to 94 and we're arguing back and forth and then Todd's getting guys i'm fed up with your fighting i'm fed up with your fighting and me and alan we just couldn't stop arguing about this and alan at one point just took the listening like threw it at my face that's just the background i'm just giving the background this is just the hey that's not the way i recall it but we'll go over that but was was the list in french would want you to get fined it was this much bigger than the english brand that's right that's right i can't hear i couldn't hear gilespera Todd jimmy and alan i don't hear you you don't hear me we check one two one two there we go you okay we're good all right it said my internet connection was unstable oh are you at the office i'm sitting in my kitchen okay that could qualify as an office somewhere on my taxes we all know how that happened don't feel bad all right here we go guys you guys ready for this a lot of excitement because this is the darkest time in metal this might be absolutely the worst year in metal history there's probably a few more grunge is exploding right now right and metal everyone's just firing the metal bands are throwing them off the labels meanwhile the metal bands are running for cover to south america because that's where the the fans are still it's picking up a lot of steam there south america is really brewing i knew i remember that time you know bands moving on there because they're not getting any traction in uh north america Todd what do you remember companies are running off like rats in a sinking ship they're getting rid of the metal the flagships they're all jumping overboard yeah yeah yeah and i remember in 93 what i would have put me at 19 i graduated high school um i i think i don't know if i was playing in a band at 93 yeah probably 93 94 i picked back up playing playing in a band doing the whole club thing and that was when one of my really good friends who we used to listen to iron maiden together and mega death and he shows up in his mazda rx seven he had a killer sound system in his car and i saw this nirvana sticker on his back hatch glass and i went ah what and he was like he's like oh yeah you gotta hear this do i i'm like come on dude we were just listening to seven sun in this thing and now you're cranking smells like teen spirit this is awful and uh and yeah the whole scene was changing and you know part of me was like kind of happy because a lot of that super saturated hair that's a good point that's a very good it was like it became so saturated just too much hair spray the old zone layer was depleting at that time remember acid rain it just became so much about the look and everyone looking like a girl and it was just kind of like it was pretty lame dude and this was a really tough time in in music and uh for metal so yeah i totally remember this time and i mean the big question is this metal or not really is going to play a role here right because i think i i think i started delving into a little bit more of the death metal because i was so i was so into the thrash thing and that was still really big here in tampa and we used to have a radio station called 98 rock and they would play a show at night called the pit and they would play all the really brutal stuff that you wouldn't get in the normal peak hours and so i started listening a little bit more to death metal and a little more extreme stuff just to explore some new things because i had already heard everything from all my favorite bands maybe they didn't have a record out that year and it was like okay what else can i listen to because i wasn't really feeling the a lot of what was happening that is a very good point death metal was sort of coming up right it was kind of coming up the ranks yeah sorry alan what'd you say i think todd explained that very well i mean i think 93 94 95 possibly all the way to 98 we're gonna have the same conversation so are there even do you have your book there martin popoffs book alan the bible i'm anxious to see how this is there actually any albums in the you know in martin popoffs book we'll find out right now let's start things off guys i'm not sure what current version of the list you have but i'm gonna start things off with number now this is basically um this is jimmy's list guys this is tool and this is a sort of like a fan vote tool being a sold three million copies of undertow right big band bordering metal hard rock but massive and then you have a band like grave digger the reaper german thrash speed a brilliant album but it didn't even dent it didn't even dent the charts or anything because it was out of fashion but they were playing hard thrashing speed metal so one one hand you had a band that really is in metal but is metal who sold all kinds a sign of the times and then you have another band who's pulling out a real metal album that no one's paying attention to but a brilliant album nevertheless guys thoughts or you don't care you know what i was never a tool fan um i i really respect them as artists i really respect what they do but just i'm just i've tried to get into it and there might be a groove i mean the drummer's amazing like they're they're a killer band yeah it's just not my cup of tea and so i don't own a tool record i probably never will it's just not my thing again no disrespect to the band because they're great at what they do it just isn't my thing yeah yeah how long what do you think about tool i know i second that emotion all right so did you guys have a chance to like and again grave digger here's a band that's like friggin probably one of their best albums pure metal thrash everything we love about metal and graphy vocals and all that yet it doesn't even dent it doesn't even it doesn't even register i mean yeah they were popular in germany but i'm just saying it just didn't explode like tool did because it was a sign of the time so that's why i put them together one with quality metal and the other one sort of big so everybody else you tell us tool or grave digger tool or grave digger there's so apples and oranges but i mean there's no doubting no no denying that grave diver grave digger is a true metal band i've played with we played with when i was in crimson glory we played the carmageddon festival in norway and grave digger played with us and i mean they're great band live and you know they're uh just a true classic metal band so in the in the style of metal i don't even think you can compare the music of grave digger and tool so right right right right off the bat electric circus is saying grave digger that's rich hall jackie saying not tool which i would think that's grave digger and uh darcy six strings nine lives grave digger all the way yeah love both says melissa two very different bands but you gotta pick one you gotta pick one we're going to be number one number ten so tool made the top 500 of course thank you guys guess what position i would say 300 um i'm gonna say in the i'm gonna say between 80 and 175 wow time 168 came in at number 168 wow is grave digger even in there no not not see what i mean but you know what this is like again it's that that book is like a consensus or a census thing yeah so there's a lot of people unless you're really into metal you don't even know who grave digger is but guys i think i think the record companies had a lot of you know i didn't know grave digger is still around in 93 yet tool probably got all kinds of promotion of course there's a the sound of that album at that time and this is exactly what the time represented a band like grave digger cracking out great metal getting ignored yeah not this and then you add tool which was popular all right carlo says grave digger ben says todd has the book i'm assuming has the book tim says grave digger i think it's a consensus grave digger will take the 10th position because tool at the end of the day isn't really that metal it's really not my thing either i tried i tried i tried hello to everyone that's in the comments and watching the show hi ben i know ben ben layered awesome guy um so he says aka popularity contest i mean look yeah that was tool was huge i mean now when they play they they took a big hiatus forever i think and then they came back and they're playing you know arenas and they're they're they're massive um and melissa has conceded grave digger not tool so good on you i would put grave digger that would be my vote but i had to i had to pair them up don't lose any sleep over tonight hey guys it's yeah all right so let's go moving on moving on let's go get the graphics ready we've seen this number nine boom right out of brazil chaos ad sepultura sepultura sepultura now as things were falling apart in north america south america was exploding with metal and this is a testament to the music that was sort of taken off there sepultura you know they were kind of like that's their peak it's their the album they're known for and it's still known for you got a little bit of that thrash you got a little bit of that gruff and you got a lot of that uh what do you want to call it uh what's that band there pantera and you got a lot of that pantera sound happening so this i mean you couldn't have a top 10 list without sepultura's chaos ad an album that the band still tours and plays and even the cavallero brothers they're going around playing that album yeah you uh in those you know when they would play headbangers ball and you know they were playing a lot of sepultura and um not really like what was the popular thing but they were they were breaking out like you know more underground called followed bands and then you know sepultura was they were really big around this time too um i remember a this kid that i went to high school with um were a sepultura sifrod sifrod those alans and i never i was like what's that band i don't know never heard of him in high school and he was like oh dude you got to check him out and you know that was a little bit i wasn't quite into that sound yet but i was you know i was i was listening to testament and overkill and you know um but the vocal was you know more of a brutal vocal than i was kind of into at the time but yeah i mean they were uh definitely rising up and and doing their thing it took hold of the flame and they were on the bands that carried it on even though like we said it metal was at a starting to be at a low we have to give hats off to sepultura because they they grabbed the flame and they they carried that torch until the next guys came along so right i mean think of a song like a refuse resist you know this protest march song and you know what a lot of what they infused a lot of that brazilian tribal drumming into their sound right and uh so they they really captured something new you know when metal was sort of dying around the world and they excited people yeah i mean i'm afraid go ahead and well even slayer had done that i remember um hearing an interview with kerry king and there was a record that they did that was a lot more um groove orient it was like a shift from what slayer was kind of normally doing and he's like you know just talking about the groove they even they did kind of a musical shift to try something different um but yeah i mean like the the roots bloody roots got that whole tribal you're talking about that tribal uh element those percussive elements and you know yeah they were definitely a band that wasn't going away and they're still touring today so there you go yeah so true or false this album made the top 100 true true i say true on this i say false well let's see what everybody else has to say drum roll true or false did seppeltura chaos ad make the top 100 list in marden popoffs book the answer is drum roll false jeremy's right it's true it comes in at number 94 there you go look at that 94 wow look at that i'm surprised yeah yeah you know what it's hey alan yeah you know how you were talking about that festival um that we're playing with sammy haigar so it's called the um blue ridge i think it's called the blue ridge festival no no this is painting the grass sorry painting the grass and our tour manager just who you met i think mm-hmm yeah he said tenacious d is playing nice playing the day at blue bridge with us all right our our our tour manager that walked you back his cousin is jack black oh cool so i need jack black by the way jack black has been on the metal voice just a little little reference really yes he's been interviewed by neil turbin on the metal voice that's cool i love jack black jack black has been interviewed on the check it out type in the metal voice jack black it's there you betcha all right ready for number eight fellas yeah sure i would love to meet jack black i think he's me too i think it's hilarious i would i would have to do some singing back and forth with all i know a lot of that wasn't the golden pick was that movie called the pick of glory pick of destiny that was it right there all right so dio that was a that was a tough watch he says dio has rocked for a long long time now it's time for him to pass the torch that's okay so wonder boy okay here we go all right let's get to alan let's let alan do number eight alan's gonna do number eight and here it is i mean but um rush counterpart it was yeah counterparts yeah i mean i was having enough problems to come up with one and jimmy had all these great ideas and i said well look if we're gonna go that way i might as well throw rush on back to basics getting less keyboards you know is it as you know they were trying something new the band itself didn't think they quite succeeded on this album but it led them into test for echo leave that thing alone neil always thought that was the best instrumental that they ever wrote you know nobody's hero was a great song stick it out i mean just that riff is a true metal riff thanks to get them back to it i have more of a trio sounding stripped down version of rush and uh but the band found it had mixed results so you know you're not surprising alan on that strombo interview that they just did with rush that he just did with rush getty lee keeps saying we were a heavy metal band we were like he refers to himself as a heavy metal band even though they don't rush getty lee says you know rush was a heavy metal band is it my favorite rush album no but again we're talking 1993 i think it deserves to be on the list so yeah okay we give me that way if their guitars were more distorted i could you know because if you if you start saying well the drumming was this you could say okay well dream theater's drumming is is that and you say well it had uh very progressive this is that okay well there's metal that has that and he had clean singing and their singers that are clean but if you added the a little more of a chunky guitar perhaps but i never i never considered them a metal band at all let me ask you guys this question just just off topic define heavy metal it's not that easy it's not it's not give me one sentence give me one sentence that defines heavy metal dude i can't it can't be vocals it can't be vocals right it progresses give me it's like any form of music there's a progression it changes you like you said choir riot was considered you know metal help the first metal album well you can't compare that to stuff that was happening the thrash scene late in the late 80s the reason just just think of one sentence or one line that would define heavy metal you just can't you can't because here's the thing what was metal to us in the early 80s somebody today would listen to that and go that's that's not metal because their understanding of their idea of what metal is is is not that right we've all agreed when we joke about well if we put our right hand on then you know you have to think about it in the context of that era so if you can't do that and if you go well it's all about attitude well then then m&m belongs in the right you know then where does it end if everybody has attitude i mean it's like do you know what do you know the junos uh define and maybe even the grammys to that a certain extent they define heavy metal or metal as loud guitars that's the only there's the only common denominator loud distorted guitars is the only common denominator in metal i think so the way it's not the singing hold on it's not the drumming and it's not the bass playing or the lyrics there could be any susette gentry she's a sweetheart okay head banging music is metal what about dream music if it gets you going like this like what if you put on metropolis does that do that i don't think so i mean it's you can't it's you can't it's tough isn't that's why i toss it out there it's a riddle it's a riddle that's what it is because look you could say you could say tool has these elements and then you say well based on this definition of whatever that's metal and but tool it's almost like something you can't really put your finger on but when you hear it you go that's that's metal or you're like that's not metal i think it's loud guitars and that that's pretty much it you know look stevia stevia rave on had loud guitars yeah exactly the white stripes of loud guitars yeah the beastie boys had loud guitars i like this metal is more aggressive form of hard rock okay so what's hard rock then a riddle another riddle a riddle within a riddle well hold on rhodes to madness a band a song from queens rike see what i'm saying there's so many peaks and valleys and little things that go on with this music you can't you get it's i don't know how to do that isn't it it's a great riddle isn't it we all know what heavy metal is but we can't define it we cannot define it it's just bizarre okay here we go all right i just thought i tossed that out there as a riddle and as a fun little thing okay here we go number seven number seven okay here's one to me oh here we go war of words fight rob halford lee's priest comes out with fight into the pit into the pit he didn't you know i would have liked you coming on stage and sing maybe one song hello wouldn't that been amazing call me rob rob it would have been it would have been epic amazing yeah amazing i think this is really a record of its time i can tell this little story so you know we we went out with priest on this tour you guys were there thank you to everybody who came out and saw that but i have a little funny story talking about going out with uh going out on stage with them or whatever hold on i'm trying to move where did your video go of us why is it there we go so there there are stage misses for the audience there's stage manager said that um if i wanted like uh to like maybe push the motorcycle out or whatever would robs on it with all the smoke and all this stuff and i was like uh if i if i get to do that i'm just gonna hop over the sissy bar and hold on i said all right bitch on the back of the bike and it was this whole big joke and i say okay well then what you know i'm gonna be on stage with rob alford with no mic i'll just be like a streaker across the stage anyway fight that record i fell in love with that record i remember craig my buddy craig blackwell we're like dude this this record's coming out halford's got another band called fight this is gonna be amazing i was in a band in fact we used to cover um we used to cover the song that goes uh late was it late to rest i'm just i don't have the track life in black oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so we used to we used to cover that in the band that we ran i was playing drums and it was just this stripped down raw thing and uh it was just like a really pure true metal thing and it was awesome and i you can obviously hear that influence on sponsored by my record you can hear that you can hear that influence you can hear that influence because i was such a big fan of that record and uh yeah so that was a really nice surprise when that record came out i still love it to this day you know what i should do i should play um alan do you have anything to add about fight i i think out of the whole list we have here today with the possible exception of tool this album is really an album of its time this takes me back to 93 when i listen to it you know it's got that dark tone it's yes rob's voice is great as usual killer immortal sin's a great song i love that for all eternities a great song oh that's one of my favorites you know but again and satchel hey satchel i'm still still panthers playing guitar right so yeah russ scott scott travis does an incredible job on drums oh yeah it's really got that whole tone that you say okay this is from the early 90s this this this sound and it's priest meets pantera again you could see how pantera is sort of mixing that music's mixening with metal and industrials coming out and death metals coming out and it's just all sort of brewing and and organically changing into something else right yeah we still can't define we still yeah and you know what i encourage people in one sentence try to define as we go through the show try to define in a sentence what heavy metal is let's see so win or win or win this yeah yes or no now yes or no did this album even come make the top 500 of martin pop art this one i would say yes probably in the low 400s i don't have to agree okay let's have a look it actually did make the book number 329 okay i'm a little close off by a hundred yeah i'm surprised i made the list first one so i had two because it was such a you know guys i was working at a record store when this album came out and it really did not excite anybody you know i didn't see people running in like they ran into buy guns and roses use your illusion or you know because it was a side thing man yeah yeah it was not really i saw it on the shelf there and there was no takers but i would put it on and i love it it was a great album at the time so and still is still is that's one of my out of this whole list that we have that's by far one of my favorites on the whole list and melissa says i would i would have put a way higher on the list exactly yes is it time now to play the new intro to the metal voice sure why oh you got a new intro yeah let me just and a newer a new a new new or just an old new well a new new okay i don't know if you guys could hear it but i'm gonna play it oh maybe it's not working it didn't work last time uh okay well we'll get back to that that sounds amazing i heard it before it's stuck it's stuck okay forget it forget it forget it we'll get back to that okay we're at number six and i would have put this album a lot higher on the list okay let me let me get the graphics here hold on hold on let's get this here hold on okay now i have to admit that i have to admit before we say who it is mm-hmm that i really don't know this band's music i've heard i've seen some videos but i just don't know the band well enough to chime in too much sorry guys no it's all good angra angels cry again from brazil that great singer great guitar player who's now in mega death but the singer passed away if i'm not mistaken right all right b andre andre mattos it's halloween it's it's sort of halloween meets brazilian tribal beats uh it's avantage and in guy before avantage and yes yeah yeah i mean this is an and i and i wrecked and this is their first album and it was actually recorded in kai hansen studio in germany so there's a halloween sort of edged to it or era not a sort of flavor to it um it's an incredible album they do a cover of k bush's withering heights which is a it's just a great cover you you don't even realize that it's a cover that's how great it is how long would you want to say sorry i don't know man this is like right in my wheelhouse as you know i'm a huge fan of avantage and ed guy and it's funny if i would have discovered this band in 93 what my take would have been but like i said i just adored this album listening to it for this list and i would have put it a lot higher on the top 10 and just andre andre mattos's voice uh unbelievable i wanted to get todd's feedback on what he thinks about this vocalist yeah he's a great song well the stuff the stuff that i saw on youtube um he was a great singer a great singer and he was uh a young guy you know he wasn't like an old old guy he was i don't know probably the stuff that i saw maybe like late 30s early 40s um yeah i mean i because my wife's the one who showed who showed me that she was like oh do you know about this guy oh it's my buddy brian who sings for trauma nice there you go brian and so um so yeah uh i was impressed i was very impressed but you know there's so many bands that i just i haven't really dug deep enough into their music to yeah unfortunately this was frank saying i was working at hmv downtown montreal 94 and kept talking about angrel while the rest of the staff was all about nine-inch nails which again is a reflection or uh you know that's what it was like back then right nobody was really talking about power metal or metal or anything of that matter of metal right again that one of those bands that are kind of coming up a little unknown that are taking over that making sure that metals the flame still lives and i mean i'm making sure to get to the late 90s with bands like ice earth and demons and wizards not demons and wizards but uh blind guardian these are guys that they struggled and they they kept they kept the flame going so and i like to comment here tmc says i look at al and i just want to cuddle him he's looking for love in the wrong place that's that old cheetah chong joke why does the cowboy have crap on his mustache because they're just looking for love in all the wrong place remember cheetah chong guys not me cheetah chong from the 70s oh my gosh anyway it's great album angra angels cry pick it up have a listen yeah this should have been high should have been jim since it's your list i'm just telling you your it's not my list it's our list that i decided to make okay so here we go guys wait wait wait wait wait wait wait real quick yes somebody said we got to find the comment the guy tried to define heavy metal oh okay he said oh there's two people for the outsiders it's one of the people who became disconnected to the drab boring scene of the popular music and force fed a or music of the mid to late 70s here's another one from roi douglas heavy metal is the natural progression of baitshoven chikovsky bach and bogner except instead of an orchestra you have guitars bass drums and a singer who can shatter glass and make ears bleed that's good i like it that's good but here's the flaw in that um singers it could be different singers i mean any band that's just guttural yeah so i mean now you're saying well are they a singer or they're vocalist heavy metal were because these bands these bands today that are like metal they're not singers sorry they're if they are singers they're not singing they're vocalizing that's not singing there's no note there you i can record that and blow it up on a wave file and you can't find the note there's no real note there it's it's a mixture of all these things that's a good point actually that's another thing it's like you say well i remember when heavy metal like had singers now everybody's just doing guttural's well albeit it takes a certain amount of technique and there's a lot to it it can't be harder than singing because there's a thousand bands there's a gazillion bands just screaming well in the 70s and 80s there were such great singers that if you weren't in a band with a great singer you weren't signed bingo period i think there's even better singers in the 80s for for the metal scene is what i'm saying maybe the song ratings in the 70s were stronger but i would compare death metal vocalist of taking a guitar and just removing all the strings and having one string and just like twanging it and then saying i'm a guitarist you know that's why that's why i call them vocalists and not singers and yeah yeah i get that yeah and it makes sense it makes sense you know it's easy to vocalize but it's really hard to sing yeah and some lori hi she's saying are you working on your second solo album yes and then i also have another thing i'm doing that's melodic death black metal speaking of guttural's it's all pretty much like my bonus track one by one it's all like that but heavier or as heavy or heavier so when can we expect the second solo album you don't have enough going on time yeah you know what there was a comment saying is todd going to go on a solo tour ever eventually yeah eventually yeah definitely we'll do it's hard to define tour because a shows yeah yeah i'll definitely play some live shows on my own stuff all right cool all right i mean you're busy with queens right yeah yeah if heavy metal was a lollipop would you lick it that's all i need to know daily oh angra comes in at number 252 boys that's it see i knew the list i built this list this is a built to list list okay here we go now we're moving up to number five this this is all this is all you jimmy this is all you jim you take over there i mean yeah you made the list we're just we're just guests guys we all made this list we all signed off on this list we shall say signed off on this list motorhead bastards you know this is now in the really under the radar but when you put it on you say you know this might be one of their best i am the sword on your feet or on your knees born to raise hell don't let daddy kiss me which is a song about you know incest and but he touches on those subjects in a very sort of let's make people aware of these things are happening bad women boogie woogie and lyre what a great album and it was an album that was released that it did go under the radar it was not this major album release at a time when everything went under the radar except for like pantera and corn when they came out which that'll come later but otherwise all the bands that were dominating it was like even though they were working just as hard and trying and doing everything it was like they were just smoke screened with pearl jam allison chains i love allison chains and that whole thing so and like as carlo says mickey deed does a great job on that album and yes he does he's a killer drummer and a super nice guy alan you're a motorhead fan i'm a huge motorhead fan for me these are a little bit of the dark years i guess the record company they were i mean they had their manager was their record company at one point as well so the president of the record which is never a good thing and you know for me this was a low period of their career like you know it's not one of their strongest albums far as i'm concerned but you know does it deserve to be on the list it's your call jim you know i would say i am the sword might be one of my favorite motorhead songs of all time it's just it's so it's so lemmy it's so lemmy you know and it's such a great song it's so melodic but anyways that's what i think do you agree everybody out there that bastard should be on this list yes or no did it make the book there i just forgot alan did was it in the book nowhere to be found oh Jesus Jesus Jesus it didn't make the list which is my point so but of the motorhead things surely motorhead's in the book and i'm wondering what the highest ranking is for motorhead anywhere in the book all right okay just because you asked Todd we're gonna find out right but as you look at that Carlos is saying yes it should be electric circus says yes right now well obviously pages are highest yeah it's it's a number that this is a little disappointing came in at number 43 that's good that's very good that's the highest charting motorhead album in the martin pop-off bible i met lemmy one time it was at a the um golden gods awards in la right when i got in the band i think right after the first record i did with the band and he was standing over at this high top bar table and smolkin i think somebody was next to him and uh scott said oh there's lemmy do you want to i was like yeah let's go over and say hi and said hi and he was very low-key you know friendly but maybe kind of wanted to be to himself a little bit so he really didn't bug him much but madame took a picture with him it was really cool you know he was he was very nice the closest thing i got was uh i went to the rainbow bar and grill and i just asked the owner i go is lemmy here is lemmy here is lemmy here sorry he's on tour that's all i got yeah he's always there he wasn't there when i went he wasn't there i did see a statue though later on did you see a statue at the rainbow bar and grill they have this statue of lemmy and it's cool all right here we go all right let's see i like bastards you know what can alan do this one and i'll do number three sure yeah we'll get my voice arrested number four here we go number four jimmy a hats off to you buddy we've been teasing you all show but i'm glad i got to revisit this album it deserves to be here except objection over you know not my not my favorite except album but it definitely deserves to be on this list it's a strong strong album even though they went to one guitar wolf's the only one playing on it and hey for the time man on cmc international there there's a huge record label for you um it's like just a great album it's a pleasure listen to lots of great good songs bulletproof all or nothing got that classic except sounding chorus and i'm really glad you added it to the list jim because it's a it deserves to be there so all right i think it's one of my favorite except albums i think it's super strong it's it's a great album after russian roulette and this is the first album like sort of their reunion after sort of breaking up after something like 10 years or i don't know 12 years whatever it was and but it didn't again a great album went under the radar because the big labels were only interested in tool that's it just tool and that's that not hoody and the blowfish we're not there yet when did hoody start where did hoody start i don't want to be here all right here we go this this is tauts now okay this is tauts so what number is this this is number three three we're in the top three three top three you ready tell me when choice now there we go sabotage yes edge of thorns another tampa florida band sabotage this is the first album it's their seventh record it's the first release with zack stevens who comes in on vocals and dude it's awesome and and it's one of these words like if you're if you're a sabotage fan and you love john oliva it's hard to have another singer come in i mean not that i would know anything about that but it's it's it's hard for that right but but john wanted that so john brought him in john oliva brought zack stevens in john's still writing all this music and um edge of thorns is just killer that was a single that blew up um i still listen to that record i still listen to that like probably a week ago i was i was playing it you know um so if you guys don't because it was on the list because it was on the list no no no no no no i listen to this anyway there you go okay okay so out of the sabotage catalog time where would you put this album the top three top five um i mean it's hard to say but for me it's like yeah it's it's it's definitely top five you know i mean it's uh and and and zack brought in a different vocal style he wasn't trying to sound like john oliva you know um he had a different kind of vibrato people might know is him from the band circle to circle which actually i was offered so my friend matt laporte who introduced me to the crimson glory guys when i was at my upholstery shop he had a um like a camaro or a firebird or something and he needed work done in the car i don't remember if it was the carpet or the headline whatever it was i did i did work for him in the car he's like hey i'm like so what are you doing you who are you playing with now blah blah blah he's like oh you know uh you know it's this new band you know it's a real quiet thing and and i was like oh cool what's it called he said circle to circle he said you know oliva wrote all the music it basically sounds like sabotage and and he goes uh he goes do you want to play do you want to play rhythm guitar in the band because he knows i play guitar as a rhythm player i'm not a solo guy and i was like well you need a drummer he's like well zack art zack already played the drums on the record so the singer zack stevens play is a drummer who turned singer zack's a really good drummer he did all the drumming on the first record for circle to circle and so that's my little side trivia for you is as i was actually offered a rhythm guitar player spot in the very first incarnation of circle to circle and i very cool respectfully declined it nevertheless uh you know it was that sabotage sound and people really loved it and the song edge of thorns was a big big popular hit for the band and uh it was awesome yeah i'm a huge fan do you find there's a queens rite vibe on that album i mean maybe some of the maybe some of the um maybe like certainly like the verses to the song edge of thorns you know the novel ring of reason you know that that whole delivery i could see that being kind of queens rike for sure um especially that song yeah yeah i i i listened to it i for sure i knew this album was gonna make the top 10 there was no doubt about it it was it was a little bit for myself i was a little disappointed i found a little too theatrical for me i i didn't know it was gonna be that theatrical it's a good album i enjoyed listening to it it's just i that was my takeaway i was surprised at at certain songs how theatrical it was yeah like damien is killer was zachary the right choice i mean i think so yeah for sure i think so too i remember when i was doing work and i'd be working in my shop and i'd be singing these songs i mean you want to hear some high singing like halford metal high listen to the end of the song uh i had to think of the name of the song it's on this record but at the very end it's uh he goes into this really high real like i don't even know if i would have to be really ripe in singing well to hit what he's hitting on this record but i i remember saying man if only like i knew zack stevens and somebody could hear what i can do maybe i'd be able to get in on something cool and now i know zack he's a really nice guy and and i respect his voice immensely and he was totally the right choice yeah okay cool and you know edge of thorns uh probably in canada right alan i i don't know man i don't think it even made a dent i mean just a super underground underground folks i remember seeing the cover at the rocking stock it was yeah yeah i mean that's what i'm saying it's very niche maybe because you're in florida taut and local band more sort of airplane more sort of probably a little more promotion right yeah versus you know here we are in canada yes it was there the album you could probably pick it up but you know one copy instead of 50 you know what i'm saying i want to find hang on one second guys let me see if it's the end of this song don't play it don't play it i'm not gonna play it to give you a copy right i'll mute my mic when i do i'm gonna mute my mic really quick all right okay so just talk amongst yourselves so johnny middleton talking about this album said we said to ourselves what were our most popular records gutter ballet and hollow of the mountain king so we should try to combine the two of them stylized to see what we could come up with that's how he's described edge of thorns so frank is saying they headline toronto for edge of thorns so look at there you go but they were a popular band nevertheless they were a popular band it's just there wasn't a headline where there was no airplane bob's burger and grill so it's track number two carves his stone okay at the tail end of that song he goes into some really high kind of hell for the type uh vocal delivery it's it's badass all right okay so we know we know this album maybe top 500 we know that's that's it comes in at number two six seven oh well if we're taught is it's just the highest charting sabotage album no no no okay now i would say um no i would say maybe streets i'm gonna guess streets yeah well it could be uh mountain king yeah where you're gonna call another mountain king comes in at 97 streets streets a rock opera comes in at number 227 wow gutter ballet comes in ahead gutter ballet comes at that's a single though that's a single edge of thorns at 267 sirens at 290 power of the night at 312 and even the wake of magma magellum magellum at three magellum at 398 so the singles that's the end of the talent that's enough okay here we go number two is everybody ready for number two are we on number two already we're on number two already jeez and before number one we'll do our they should have been or they could have been okay okay here we go number two number two number two here we are i would look at that album cover hanging in the balance metal church uh mike how said to me you know what this bad things were going bad when this album came out the music was great things were going terrible but once this album cover dude he hated it he was given to the band he said it was over yeah this cover ruined the band right that was what was the last nail in the coffin of ruining the band however we had some we had some really good conversations you know i i just can't believe that the guy's gone but yeah he told me also he's like dude when that album cover came out showed us we were he was just like bonzo i can't do this keep talking i'm gonna grab some orange juice all right here we go here you know jam i have to say again kudos to you metal church as i've said in the past the first album yeah okay it was good it was in there the production maybe not the strongest i found at the time at the time and then they throw a beer on me at the metallica concert right so they just throw a beer the singer throws a beer into the crowd and i get soaking wet so i'm not a big fan but you guys have been chipping away every list there's always a metal church there's this one i really enjoyed this album i thought this was a great album the album cover a part of a really good album the album is a very good album yeah totally yeah i mean the cover just look look grunge metal church had those first three four albums they're really taken off they're doing well then grunge hits suddenly they're you know the bands and shambles there's arguing amongst the band the album cover comes out there's no support the money's not going towards the band from the label things are falling apart however we got some good music gods of a second chance what a song losers in the game waiting for a savior another epic track and no friend of mine this album is full of amazing songs that kind of went under the radar like most metal albums back then you know that the problem is like you got it you got to just ignore the artwork right but the thing is like they had this they had those always had those metal covers and then you get this cartoon just ridiculous looking cover i like it actually i think it's i think it sucks i like it but i think at the time if i was in the band i wouldn't have liked it right i mean it just doesn't fit it didn't fit the sound so you're like when you're going to the record you're looking through records and you see that you're not like oh i bet this sounds tough you know you're just like it was not even intriguing it's not even like vague and mysterious like oh this is so esoteric and dark and i can interpret it i mean it's just like they just played off the lyric the the title and they're like let's come up with something that's out of the box i mean it was out of the box but it just it just didn't it just didn't didn't fit in metal church i don't know you know you know metal albums you know today we find them sort of cute and weird like you know bonded by blood right like exodus right you know it's bizarre but back then when they were first released it was like what the hell's this so i'm trying to say is that over time we kind of appreciate the bad artwork because it was unique for its time and it sort of symbolized the nearer of when it came out you know i get what the label wanted to do and i get why the band was frustrated but i kind of like it it's fine it's fine it's a fun cover i mean maybe one here here's a here's a a fun comment from peter christ christensen says mike how was perhaps even better than toddletory lol sorry close to my number one singer ever and look mike how was one of my all-time favorite singers so i totally get it with that even better it's a compliment with that being said when we shot the fake healer video together oh yes and i said to him i go dude i always loved your voice you had such a original witchy kind of thing and the way you sinister yeah sinister and every word would be like just so you know he would have this bite and attack and every word was like yes right you don't get a lot of singers like that anymore and i used to go man how do you do what you do you would go well how do you do what you do he's like i can't do what you do and i go um i can kind of do what you do but not like you i said i said i'm just kidding dude i can't do what you do you you have your own thing so he was one of my all-time favorite singers too just like peter the guy was awesome and such a nice guy too okay where are we at number one okay we're not gonna go there yet yeah we're not gonna let's just talk about quickly get your honorable mentions you yeah yeah well we'll talk about the arms that oh you know what i came and find my list like you've got seven versions of it yeah you were were you you were at it you were you were editing well i'll throw one out there merciful fate carlo said merciful fate in the shadows guys i think i was talking to todd last week or the week before and maybe your wife said what about in the shadows and i go i don't know if the guys are gonna like me mentioning another merciful fate album but it is not one of my favorite merciful fate albums that's why in the shadows is not on the list i think it's okay i just don't think it's top 10 worthy so that's for me do you guys have any other speaking of speaking of merciful fate i'm gonna deviate for a second you had snowy shaw on your show yes i got to meet him when we were playing in in where's he from sweden nor uh yes sweden yeah sweden so we were playing up there and he came into our dressing room and like we got to meet and he was such a cool guy like he was so nice and i was like holy shit your snowy shaw this is awesome he's a multi instrumentalist he's a really talented guy i mean dude he sings great he plays guitar he's a killer drummer like this guy has the whole thing right he was such a nice guy speaking of merciful fate i had to acknowledge that you had that you guys had him on the show and what a really what a really genuine genuine good guy really really and just as another side note on in the shadows his picture is on the album as the drummer for merciful fate however he did not perform on the album sort of like tommy aldridge and rudy sarzo on uh gary of a madman sort of like they were there for the photo shoot but they didn't actually play on the album so snowy shaw yes snowy is pretty amazing man this guy is what a what a life story he's just he can do everything it's just yeah he's he's a really interest really cool guy from from i've watched interviews with him and i've seen his performances like on youtube and stuff he is ghost before ghost right he is ghost before ghost only accept and maybe alon doesn't know snowy shaw as much but only only when he used to go on stage he had the sort of like the ghouls you know like ghost has those those hidden like eyes with right they were wearing all these that's what snowy had and he had the face pink like face paint like ghost he had the melodic songs like ghost he was ghost and he's from sweden like ghost is from sweden so the connections there somebody influenced somebody yeah only you know he's he can sound really brutal and he and i love that you know he was doing the whole corpse paint there the face the corpse paint that's what i was but with but with his his like white hair which looked even cooler because they always have jet black hair with the white right with him having like white it wasn't even blonde it was i am snowy shaw yes yes cool dude cool dude man really cool guy uh so most guys do you have any albums that you thought could have made it or should have made it or honorable mentions deo strange highways this is a good jim harrison saying jim deo strange highways should that have made it alon should that have made it say like it is i'm trying to look it up i mean everybody like we said earlier i mean they were trying something different it's not my favorite deal it's a good album but i'll stick my more list jim well we we you know we talked about death yes death yeah i thought that was gonna make it i thought you know and you want to talk about like seriously complex stuff dude yes i mean this band i mean just the first track it's like the drumming is ridiculous and it's like crazy fusiony progressive the time signatures the i mean it's it's pretty it's it's extreme back then dude this was extreme music and you know well the thing about death and me and todd talked about this in the past is the vocals like the music is amazing the guitar work the drumming is insane but when the vocals come in it kind of like that's what always ruins it for me you know what you know for me what is when i get into a groove yeah and then it and then it just changes too quickly and then it's into something else and then it changes too quickly again it's like Jesus that's why as much as i like prog music i don't listen to prog very much anymore at all because i'm just burned out with all this wanking and all this look at me i'm such a versatile virtuoso player like yeah okay you're awesome you're a technically awesome guitar player drummer blah blah blah but that doesn't make good songs and it's just boring so for me i don't really listen if i'm gonna listen to something prog dude i'll go back and listen to emerson lake and palmer or king crimson or rush i like the new met like any metal prog bands tons of respect as a listener i am just not interested in hearing all this stuff anymore it's been i was a huge i mean it's still huge still a big dream theater fan and i was really into those beginning records of dream theater and then there's another band called fondant plus which is great then they're kind of like europe's dream theater and but i'm so tired of hearing just all of this thing i just want to hear good songs man without a gazillion changes in all this like it's just boring calls it bumblebee it's just boring no indeed what what i say is that not every song has to have five side trips right or changes as you refer to say guys you you can go straightforward you can still show how you're good at your instrument you can then like rush do one or two but you don't need every song to have five different you know movements it's just like you said he gets like uh Tom Sawyer the song Tom Sawyer progressive it's progressive but it's short enough and quick enough but you're not sort of bored you know sort of okay i could play the drums for 10 minutes straight no here's a little drum patterns and fills that make it progressive but it's they know when to quit here's the other thing the brilliance of a band like rush right so you have the that's a one two three four five six seven one two three four five six seven one two three four that's a seven seven eight time okay it doesn't feel forced on me because it's doesn't feel and then if you listen to Pink Floyd's like money right that's an odd time signature then when it goes into the solo two two two three four one two gets into a four four swing then it's that's the brilliance that's the brilliance right there the brilliance is when you can do this where it's seamless instead of like uh instead of all this these choking hard changes where you're like, you feel blindsided by it. And I think that's the brilliance of why I love Rush and why I really like the Prague of Pink Floyd. It's more of a thought process and this fusion of cleverly bringing in maybe a different time signature. It's very blended, very well. It's like seamless. And it's something to- Neil Perk could play drums and he didn't need 10 minutes in a song to play drums. Like just to show that he just integrated his drum patterns and his timing signatures in the song so well that you didn't even know he was doing it, I must say. And you know what? And there's things in that song, in Tom Sawyer, for example, right? Do-doneeng-do bam, brr, brr, brr, brr, brr, brr do-done do-gum. Brr, brr, brr, brr, brr, brr, brr. Brrag, brr, brr, brr. I was really getting into it now. Everyone wants to air, everyone does their drum match. You should have seen when they played YYZ... It's an explosion of, your drummers are, you know, our air drummers all over the place. It's like, right. But you know what? To me, that is like when you can show the technicality, but you're still, it's still palatable to the average ear. But if you tried to like memorize a drum part for today's like prog stuff, dude, and if you're not a musician, you're probably never gonna, you're not gonna be able to, never mind if you can play it. You can't even air drum the timing. That's the definition of heavy metal. If you have to air drum, it's metal. Like do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. I'm not feeling good. Everybody likes to air drum. Anybody can air guitar to any song. Can you air drum? Can you air drum? I think Todd is rules in air drumming. He's got his whole- That's metal. He's a drummer, so he can do it, right? That's it. He can do it before four when I air drum. Okay, guys, let's get the number one. All right, hold on a second. By the way, death made number 228, Mr. Individual thought patterns. Individual thought patterns, 228. All right, so I gotta say also Voivod. These are the local guys from Montreal. Outer Limits, it's just for me. They're one of my favorite bands. A big nod to them. This was their progressive album. They do do a Pink Floyd song, the Nile on it. They do have like a 10 minute song, but they're another type of band. Odd time signatures. Tritones on the guitar. They just, they make it palatable. But because it was 1993 under the radar. So I recommend everybody go pick up Voivods. Outer Limits, great. And Jack Luminous, what a fantastic song on that album. I know Alan's a big Voivod fan, but I'm a bigger one. Okay, here we go. Are you guys ready for this? Oh, before we do the last one, everybody out there toss out, maybe an album we forgot before we go to number one. There's been a few in Sweden. Well, throw them out there. Typo negative. Guys, what do you think about Typo negative? Gamma Ray, Riot Nightbreaker. That's it? This guy says, I'm not a musician, but I am a metal fan and love when dream theater shows off. Look, I like it too. As a fan and just a listener of music, I just, I find myself tuning out of, and I'm not isolating dream theater. I know the guys, I think they're badass. They're amazing. Like they don't make a wrong note. You're not gonna hear it. James Lebris interview coming up, Alan. James Lebris. Coming up. You know what? Coming up next week. Coming up next week. As a fan, I just, my tastes have changed where, again, total respect. But as a listener, I just, I'm kind of not in that headspace anymore. All right, I'm gonna call out some albums. Okay, Frank Podmery says carcass heart work. Nuclear assault. Nuclear assault, something wicked. Some of these are blue murder, nothing but trouble. I think Lion's Heart, the self-titled, that's the Steve Grimmet one, right, Alan? Lion's Heart self-titled. That could be, I don't know. Paradise Lost. Frank Podmery, carcass, heart work number 66 out of the top 500. So we might have missed one, guys. Overkill. What's the album called again? I just forgot, but Annihilator set the world on fire, you know, from Canada. Great band. It's a great album too. And I think it would have been number 11 if I was in charge of the list. And we'll mention Paradise Lost as well. Yes, Paradise Lost. Yes. All right, let's get the number one. I'm hungry. Yeah, and I think Alan's hungry. I hear block is overkill. Nacho's ready for me. You know, it's funny I ate before the show because see, that's what I gotta do. I pee before the show and I eat before the show, so I'm prepared. Normally I eat during the show, but I'm not. Hey, hey, hey, yeah, we're disappointed. We're disappointed. And you know what? Some guests of ours peed during the show as well. Hold on. Yeah, that was a good one. Hold on. I'll be right back. All right. What do we got? What do we got? What do we got today? Feta, Feta, Feta. Did you like the Feta in Montreal? Watch this, my wife's gonna be pissed. I'm not even gonna do it with a fork. He's gonna put it back in the fridge though. Don't worry, we won't tell her, we won't tell her. I'm gonna put it in the fridge. We won't tell her. I hope she doesn't watch the show. I got nobody saying it's going back in the fridge right now. Now grab the milk and do the same thing. You wanna see how much of a heathen I am? Heathen? That's it, that's it. Go, wash it down, wash it down. Does she watch this show, Todd? Yeah, she doesn't watch this show. Okay, good, we're good. We're good, shh, nobody tell her. Okay, here we go. Yeah, that it. All right, yeah, that it. Can we get the number one, Jim? Number one. Number one, number one. Let me get the graphics ready. Of course, it had to be John Five. No, no, no, no, no, no. Here we go, anthrax, sound of white noise. Here we go, sound of white noise. Boom, what a great album that is. What a great album. And here's the difference between this album and all the other ones. They hit the mark in terms of music, right? Production, sound, songs, and they also did well on the charts during this era, which a lot of metal bands didn't. They could have even done better if they had more label support. But John Bush comes in, kicks it into gear, and suddenly you got one of the greatest anthrax albums ever made, next to Fistful of Metal. Guys. I think you just have to listen to the song only to see what John Bush brings to this album. So again, I'm Joy Belladonna, I love him, but this is a completely another notch else on the anthrax. When we had Armored St. tour with us, we would do a sound check. And I knew he was in the building. I'd go, everything is perfect. I would start singing only, right? And he would always get a kick out of it. And I've told you, I think I've told you this before. Dude, before I ever met John Bush, we played with Death Angel and Armored St. We had five or six shows in Europe that we played together. And I was like, dude, this is awesome. I'm gonna meet John Bush, like a massive John Bush fan. I'm kind of geeked out, right? And they're in the adjacent. We're sharing a wall, two dressing rooms. And I hear him going, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's doing all his warm up stuff. And he's belting it like, dude, like he's screaming at someone across the street. This guy's voice is so powerful. And I was like, holy shit, does this guy really sing like this on stage? I would be blown out in two nights, like one night. And what a performer. This guy just gives it everything he's got. And he just looks badass. And that guy's voice is very, again, talking about these unique voices, right? You hear John Bush and you know John Bush's voice. So even though he sounds nothing like Belladonna, I loved it. I thought it was awesome. Yeah. Are you the same height as John Bush type? Yeah, we have to be. So you see eye to eye. Bad joke, Alan. Here's the tall guy, you know, ripping on the. No, we haven't. You are, hold on. You are tall. I didn't know you were that tall. Introduce you to John and I met you. And I think you guys, my mind, you're the same. What is that? What is that? Pick on somebody your own size. The giant is telling us. No, he was Alan is very tall. What do you like, six, three? No, no, no, I'm barely six foot tall. Really? Yeah. Must have been those high heels you had on. My stilettos. I met John Bush. John Bush is probably one of the nicest people you can. He's a super nice guy. And he still sounds amazing. So, and you know what, Joey Belladonna still sounds, he's, I think Joey Belladonna sounds better now. I agree. And even back then, like his vibrato is more vibrato-y. And the guy has an aged a bit. I mean, he still has like the metal bangs and the long black hair. And he still looks the same. He doesn't aged a bit. But yeah, I love this record. I thought it was, although I was like, oh, Andrew X got another singer and this and that. But it was John Bush. And I was like, okay, I'm really interested in what this sounds like. And the music was killer. Yeah. Well, this is my life with Anthrax. Fistful of Metal comes out. And I love it. I get the album. I love it. I love everything about it. Neil Turbin rules. This is the best thing ever in 1984. And then I find out they got a new singer. And I was kind of turned off at the time. And I tried. And my friends really liked Anthrax. I just could not get into it. It was kind of like Bruce Dickinson light, in a sense, Joey, right? Back then. And then I got into the band again when John Bush fronted the band. And then when John Bush fronted the band, I went back to the Joey era and I started appreciating what happened there. So it was a very strange journey for me with Anthrax. You know what's funny, Jim? I bought the first Anthrax and I think I might have been the first guy in Montreal to buy the first Anthrax. And then I never bought another Anthrax album until I was used to it. But through my good friend, Steve Rod, who Todd had the pleasure of meeting, he was a huge Anthrax fan. He'd have all the albums. So I got to hear spreading the disease and among the living and everything else afterwards. Persistence of time and all through Steve Rod. Good old Steve Rod. Yeah. Is this the top charting Anthrax album in the top five? We know it made the top 500. But is it rated? No. Yes or no, the top Anthrax album. Among the living is the top one. Fistful probably is up there too. And I would, and spreading disease, yes, definitely. This is up there and this is probably at 300, three at 25. Jim, you're right that among the living is the top rated Anthrax album. Among the living comes in at number 49 and this album, Sound of White Noise, comes in at number 104. Is Fistful there? Fistful? Almost broke the top 100. Fistful of metal. Is it there, Alan? Can you check? I have a feeling it's there. Anthrax, Fistful of Metal, yes, 343. It's the lowest charting Anthrax album on the list. Still, there you go. That's our top 10 list. You're a top 10. 1993. I don't know, I haven't looked at 1994 yet. I'm kind of wondering what it's. Let us know where your choices are. I'll send you the list, you can approve it, you can sign off on it. I was really happy because it wasn't much back and forth like usual. All I got was, Jim, do whatever you want, I don't care. Jim, you were debating yourself for seven different versions. I said Todd the list and he goes, okay. I sent him another list, he goes, okay. I sent him another list, he goes, okay. Yeah, Alan just didn't want to do the show. Alan didn't want to do the show. He wanted to do 94, he wanted to skip 93. I have to see what 94 had to offer. Dude, it gets tough. Slim Pickens, Slim Pickens. Okay, so really quick, somebody asked me, I know Alan's dying to go get his nachos, but somebody asked me if I ever checked out the band Bullthrower and I did and I hate to say it, but I just wasn't feeling it. My apologies to you, bud, but I wasn't really taking it at all. Look, at the end of the day, we all have our own little tapes. We all have our own things. That's it, that's subjective. This, even though this is the metal voice and the metal voice lists are the defining lists of each era, that is true. People are allowed to be like them what they like, even though- I mean, look, I'm just being honest. I could be like, oh yeah, I thought they were great and play that whole, I'm not gonna BS it. It's like, nah, either I just don't like it or it's like, eh. Well, there's one guy that can vouch for that is definitely me, because I got trashed on a lot of lists in the 80s. Well, here's a great, Todd, thank you for being so generous with your time. We all adore you on the metal voice. Awesome, thank you. I'm thankful to you guys for having me on your show and thanks for showing the support for my album, wearing the shirt, and I got my metal voice shirt on. Here's your chance, Todd, what can we expect? What do you wanna plug? This is a great opportunity here. For what? For whatever's going on in your life besides a poster. Oh, what do I wanna plug? Like a band? No, whatever's, you know, we spoke about the opening for Sammy Hager at a festival. You got the albums coming along. You said it was mastered when we saw you about a month ago. It's all done, yeah, all the cover art, everything's done. It's, I think, going to manufacturing like ASAP. I just, we got a lot of video, we got videos in the works, we've got new photo shoots that we did. I'm home until the 27th and then we fly out and play a show and then I'm home for a little bit and then we're out. So we have some more fly dates and then we'll have a lot of touring coming up later in the not too distant future. And then, and honestly, like next year is already looking booked for, I think we have pretty much the whole year already planned out. So yeah, there's a lot of, I mean, we've been super busy, super, super busy. So hopefully when the record comes out, everybody likes it. And yeah, I'm going to, we're doing a lot of gearing up for all the album promo stuff. And then when that happened, when that's done. So it's 2022, right? It's the album's going to be in 2022. That you could confirm. I know I don't want to push you before it's time, but 2022, we could say 2022. Yeah. We could say 2022. Early 2022 or later on 2022. The 2022. I thought you were going to push me. So yeah, so all that's going really great with the band and then I'm going to start, I've got my own side, not the follow up to my first record but like a side thing that I'm doing. Yep, some of that. And then Craig and I are starting to write some riffs. He came over recently and I said, you got any new ideas? Let's hear him. And he played some ideas on his phone. And so that's starting to kind of happen. You know, we're the beginnings of some new guitar riffs and some song ideas. So why do you find, I don't want to turn this into an interview, but why do you find that you need to go into the sort of like the aggressive black death battle? And there's no right or wrong answer. I'm just saying, is this something in you that you said, you know what I always wanted to do? It's really fun because there's an attitude, there's a thing that you can do with that vocal. Look, there's an attitude that you're just not going to get otherwise. It would be like having a very clean singer and then having somebody like a John Bush with this rasp. And you say, that clean singer is never going to deliver that line with the ump in the attitude that a singer like John Bush has because it's just so clean and pretty. So imagine if John Bush were the clean and pretty and then the next heavier version of that would be what I'm talking about. Kind of like behemoth or something like that. But I may play all the guitars on it and do the drums. And actually the person that's playing bass on that stuff is my friend Mia who plays with Abath and she plays in Nirvosa. And so yeah, you know, so right now it's just me writing my own songs and doing that. And then I have another friend named John who played keys, doing all this kind of atmospheric pad some cool string stuff on the keyboards for this music that I, this other side thing I'm talking about. But I'll do like a full blown legit follow up to the first record. And hopefully I can, we can write songs that are as good or better than those. And yeah, we'll see what happens. You know, just on the side note destruction came here with Nirvosa. And they asked me if, you know if we wanted to do an interview, but I had COVID that was like two weeks ago. How are you feeling now? Oh yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine now. I fell down the stairs, but I'm okay. Alan, go, I go Alan. I fell down the stairs. Woody drug, but you don't drink. What's going on? He doesn't drink, so I don't understand. So somebody, Eric, I guess that's a clever way to write the word named Eric. I'll be seeing her with Nirvosa this Sunday with destruction. So I'm curious what city that's in because I just talked to her yesterday and it was their day off in Salt Lake City. I was hoping I could maybe go to the Georgia show, but I fly out that day. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but anyway, yeah, we're glad that you're feeling better. That's hard. I have a bruised rib. And let me tell you, the worst part of it. Does it hurt when you laugh? Does it hurt when you laugh? Not anymore, not anymore. Me and Alan were doing an interview last week, I guess. I don't remember when our last interview was. War. War. Anyways, whenever I laugh or sneeze or I cough, it was like pain you've never felt before. Now it's died down. It's kind of come down. But let me tell you, man, it was brutal. Your rib cage, man, just the simple cough. Yeah. It's like you're screaming in pain. That sucks, dude. I have not had COVID yet. I've been had all three vaccinations. I wear them, even though you don't have to wear masks on planes anymore, we all wear them. And you know what? I just feel when somebody's like, and they sneeze, and all I can think of is all this particles in the air and then I'm like. Goblet. You know, yawning and sucking in all this. So I feel so much better having a mask on, even just without COVID. People are coughing and sneezing. And it's like, I don't want any part of that. So we always wear them. We still don't do meet and greets. I don't know when that's gonna come back for us. What do you think about this plastic? Alan, are you good with time or you have to go eat? It depends where you're going with it. I see these plastic plexiglass meet and greets. I find that KISS was doing. I've never seen that. And I go, I just kind of like, I don't know, man. It's just, it's not what, if I'm gonna pay for a meeting greet, which I really don't. But if I was, I don't know if I'd want a plexiglass aquarium meeting greet. It's just weird. And I get a thought I can expand upon this more. But if I'm in the, you know, the band's got commitments lined up for months and months. And now all of a sudden you want to greet the fans. But if you're shaking or touching people and you're exposed to X amount of people. Extra per day extra, you know, you got commitments down the road. You got to be a little cautious. But again, Todd's the touring musician. I mean, yeah, when you have shows booked out and flights paid for for all these shows ahead of time that we've paid for, you know, if I get sick or Michael or anyone of us gets sick, those are canceled. And not only that, but you know, there are concert goers that will make travel arrangements. Maybe they're out of town and they drove six hours or they've got a hotel booked. So there's a lot of things, not just the band that could be it convenes by this, but there are a lot of other people that have made a lot of arrangements and plans to go to this show. So as much as like, you know, this sucks, I drove all the way out here and I had a hotel booked and yeah, well, fuck you because we just lost tens of thousands of dollars. So like you're not the only one that lost money here. But sometimes you see some people that are like pissy with the band and you're like, you think this, not us. I'm not talking about us. But it's like, you think that band was happy that they had to cancel that show? Believe me, they weren't. And so the best thing we can do, yes, is stay away from that as much as possible. And, you know, we, well, on the priest tour, we COVID tested after every day off and we had to test negative before we could even go into the venue. So if I see Rob Alford eating at dinner, I know that everyone in this building has tested negative. And not only that, you had to show, I think when we started the tour, I think we had to show them that we were vaccinated. That was a big deal. And so I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that you had to be vaxed and you had to do the negative, the rapid testing. But it's just, it's how we earn a living and nobody wants to get sick. And you know what, I remember, so Montreal was one of the last dates and I don't know if it was you or I can't remember who said it. I mean, Michael, I'm not sure. We had a very safe COVID free sort of journey. So you guys were successful. You guys were hardcore about- Nobody got it. Nobody got it. You guys were hardcore about it and that's great, you know, and that's fantastic. One last thing, Alan, you still have time? What depends where you're going, Jim? Bon Jovi. I mean, Todd, we're talking about this. I just- That's a long conversation. Well, I mean, this is like, and I think me and Todd are kind of see eye to eye on this. Like, I'm watching these videos of Bon Jovi and I see people picking on him and I'm not a big fan of Bon Jovi by any means, but he's having some issues there. Like, there's some serious vocal issues and it doesn't seem like it's a typical burnt out voice. It seems like, I don't know. Does he continue? I read last night and it's a good point. It's, they said it might be affected by hearing loss, a certain hearing loss. Because if you- Now, Todd, if you don't want to comment, don't worry about it. I mean, it's all good, man. Here's, I'll give you my three cents. Okay. From what I can see and hear, he's obviously having issues. That being said, I don't, who knows what kind of health thing he may be going through. Who knows, we just don't know what's going on personally. If it's other than just like, oh, my voice has worn out. From what I'm seeing and hearing, it sounds like way more than that, but I don't know. And as much as so many of these people will say, oh, this guy's voice is done. He should just quit. He's ruining his legacy at the same time. This is a very altruistic guy. He's a philanthropist. He is employing a lot of people and those people's paychecks that they're earning from these tours are feeding their families. They are paying their mortgages. It's keeping them employed. This guy donates a shit ton of money to good causes and charities. He has soup kitchens. I mean, the guy does a lot. And my thing is like, look, if you wanna criticize him, that's your right, but people are still showing up and the videos are out there. So if somebody still wants to go support him, be like, dude, that's John Bon Jovi in the flesh. And I don't care if he's not singing like he used to sing and they don't really care. That guy's still putting a smile on it. He's smiling and he's going out there. He has to know that he doesn't sound great. But I really like John Bon Jovi as a human being. He seems like a really great guy. And he's given these people the best of his voice for 30, 40 years, whatever it is. I mean, cut the guy some slack. Be thankful you can still see him in person while you can. So as much as people wanna criticize, the fact is he's a human being. We don't know what he's going through, if any. And just don't go to the show if you don't like it. But to sit there and really trash the guy publicly, I think is not cool. But- Arenas full of fans, right? He's playing arenas and you watch the videos. I don't think there's too many people complaining. Everybody's having a great time. I mean, they'll be like, oh, this is sad. I really, but you know what? They're singing along right with him and he's there in front of them and it is what it is. But I just think- He could use backing tracks and he doesn't, right? He goes, screw it. I'm just gonna- You know, I saw one video, and I don't know if this is true or not, but I saw one video where he was on stage and as he was walking this way on stage, he had his hand up. He had his hand up in the air like this and he's kinda, this is what you see. And he's kinda going, you know, your love is like bad medicine. And then when he turns, he changes the mic. He's kinda, it almost, the comments were that, oh, maybe he's guarding his voice and he would turn around and sing some of the higher stuff and look at the drummer a lot. He was very kind of like this. So, and the voice sounded better than the stuff that didn't sound so great. And people were saying, I think he might be using some live tracks from other shows. I don't really know. I don't, I'm not gonna- You know what? I'm gonna end it off here. Like in the olden days, and we'll call it the old days, we'll say the 70s and 80s, labels would support tours, bands wouldn't have to worry about this financial burden as much. Costs were a lot lower. Gas was like nothing. There was less stakes. Like Robert Plant would go on stage, butcher a few songs, you know, get off stage. There was less stakes. Today, the stakes are high, right? Gas prices are off the charts. Unions and, you know, production teams and all that, you have to perform, right? You gotta perform or there's a lot of money at stake. And that's your bottom line- That's the hard, somebody, somebody asked me, what would you do, Todd? I've been in this predicament before. The only thing is I didn't have, you know, seven semi trucks and 50 crew guys and, you know, but it was still relative to Queensranks. So there were times where I would get a sinus infection and I sounded like this. And so I'm going into the eyes of a stranger. It was like Barry White. Wait a second, you sound like Jeff Tate there. Yeah, it was really tough because people, you know that people want to hear the range and they want to hear it sung the way that it really goes. And I just, it was nothing I could do. And we did, it was like right when I got in the band too and we played the show in Oregon and that was two nights. And then Pamela Moore came out, I think the second night and joined us. And that's when I knew that first night toward the end, something was going wrong. Oh, sure enough, I had a sinus infection and we ended up canceling the second night. And the band lost a lot of money. And there were a lot of people that traveled to go see the show and it was like a new singer of the band and Pamela Moore was going to be singing with us. And it was like really cool. I would never, as much as I would hate for people to lose income and not get their money. I will not sit there and lip sync a show just so that the show can go on. I mean, Rob Halford canceled that show in Massachusetts. Right. And he could have just phoned it in on tracks if they have them and he could have done the show and everyone would have been paid. Nobody would have even known shit anyway. But he didn't and that says a lot. And so for me, I would rather either sound like crap and do it for real than fake it and sound good and know that it's not me because I don't know, man, I'm just too proud. If I was a singer, I would do the same thing. Yeah, it's all or nothing. And I think Bon Jovi's too proud too in a sense because he goes, I'm gonna go up there. That's a lot of pressure because your voice, right? And you're in different climates all the time. You're on a bus with a lot of people that can get sick and there's pollen and pollutants and sneezing and shaking and hands and different climates. And then your altitude is your over 5,000 feet and it's dry and I would blow my nose and blood's coming out of my nose because it's so dry. And then it, dude, it sucks. People have no idea. It's like, you're singing your best day in your shower in the car or like, oh, I could do that. Why would he, he sounds awful. It's a whole different ball of wax when you're a touring vocalist. I agree, man. That pressure is just, I don't think anybody could understand that pressure unless you're sitting at, the singer, guitars, you could swap them out. Oh, I broke my arm, bring in another guitar. His drummers could be swapped out. The voice is different. Voice is different. You just kind of have another singer one night. Somebody was saying, oh, when I called out that asshole journalist from Texas, it was like, oh, you know, this guy's using tracks and I know enough to know when I hear tracks. And I'm like, first of all, no, I'm not. Second of all, like when we would do in force, I'd go, in force, I would hit the high octave and then our sound guy throws the delay. So by the time I, I'm going full set, the high note, my mic's away and you still hear the trail of enforced. They think that I'm faking it. And I'm like, dude, I could sing it right to you. James Lebris, he said the same thing, you know? He kind of like- These people don't know anything. They don't know anything. He got mad. And you know what, we will be interviewing James Lebris about this next week. And also, don't forget to watch Blothar from Gore. I mean, Blothar, Blothar from Gore. I saw a piece of that and he talked about his drapes behind them. Yeah, an alternative. Well, listen guys, thanks for having me. And- I'm going to leave, here's the last quote. You want it? This is what defines metal. You hear it? It's from Cayman, all right? And we're going to leave- It's from who? From Cayman. Okay. This is the quote that we wanted to define metal today. The metal is about being real. Dolly Parton's real. She's metal. Metal here. She's rock and roll. Yeah, apparently. It's a tough thing. You can't nail it down in a sentence. Man, you just can't. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, guys. Alan, good to see you, buddy. Yeah, yep. I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm glad you're doing well. Yes, sir. I think I'm going to make some Portobello mushroom and asparagus on my grill right now. There you go. All right, guys. Have yourself a nice night. Okay. All right, thanks again. Bye, everyone.