 Alright, give whatever you're ready. Oh, I just spit off my brain. Hello everyone and welcome to the Procrastinators podcast. Hello, this is us. We have a special guest today. Gamers Tavern, here he is. Yeah! Woo! Hello. Hello! Woo! Yeah! Gamers Tavern is a reviewer of video games and does Let's Plays, which is the topic of today's podcast. And with me, Hippocrates, we have other members of the show who are usually here. You're an expert at this. I really am good, aren't I? He knows what he's doing. Where'd you get that degree? Where'd you get that degree? The fucking trash bin. Yes, and here we have Munchy Jones. Welcome to the only podcast on the internet where one-six of its hosts consistently has severe mold-induced respiratory issues. I cannot breathe right now. There's too much mold in my room. Oh, no. We have Tom Oliver. Hello! I have risen from the grave to bring you more fantastic ramblings. We have Beskayevva. It's about that time, everybody. And we have Ben Seat. Discord! I'm hallowed at the moon. And deep in the middle of the summer afternoon. Discord! Remember whatever we do to make you take your moons away. Take my pain away. All right, now. I guess I should have left Gamers Tavern at the end. I was going to reintroduce him. Gamers Tavern is here. Hey. There he is. Yeah. Yeah, we're happy to have you. I'd just like to say right off the bat that I and a bunch of us here are longtime fans of Gamers Tavern. A tragically underappreciated channel who back in the day was putting out some really great, some really enjoyable Let's Play content. There can be no doubt. No doubt. Link in the description to his channel. I'm very flattered to hear that. We, I think, at the very least, I think Jesse originally was the guy who found your content first. Was it? I think it was me or Jesse who found his content. And we shared it amongst ourselves. And we said, this guy has got the best dry comedy. Like, I think that's what you call it, dry comedy. Like, let's plays of just the... It was so funny. Like, we were laughing the whole time. It was great. We loved your videos so much. And we subscribed and we watched your podcasts and we love Gamers Tavern, we say it. I would like to throw out that I, unequivocally, wish to preemptively crown Gamers Tavern the king of Let's Plays. I have not seen one that's better. It is, you guys, you have to watch, please go watch some of his videos, like his Sonic Let's Plays, or any of them, the Rocket Knight Adventures. We got Rocket Knight, Kirby, Sonic. There's more, I'm blanking. There's a whole bunch. Listeners, just look inside your heart and think, do you want unscripted podcasts like a banter between two unqualified, unprofessional internet hacks, long since their prime, like the DigiPros, or the Game Grump? Or do you want masterfully paced, beautifully executed, pure art Let's Plays, such as the Gamers Tavern offers? The puns are off the charts, and so is the quality. Mr. Tavern, I'm curious, how would you describe? That's his official name and title. Please be respectful, everyone. Mr. Tavern, how would you describe your Let's Plays style? I don't really know. I just think up of things that are funny and I just try to do them. I've been dying to ask you for years, years at this point. I think I know what you're going to ask, because I was just about to ask the same thing. Go ahead. Were you going to ask him whether he... Whether he does them right as he's doing it, or if he goes back over and dubs over them. Is it off the cuff, or is it dubbed in after? Because it's so tight, like your lines, the stuff you say is so tight, one after another, and it's really funny. I feel like it has to be scripted. It has to be scripted. It has to be put in afterwards. Well, you're correct on both of those accounts. It's post-commentary, so it's done after I record the gameplay footage. Okay. And it is scripted. Okay. Fantastic. And as we've established in the pre-show, by the way, Ben St. D value is all scripted content, and we haven't used any rehearsed media as invalid and worthless artistically, so... Yeah. It's been major problems here. I mean, it's less, you know? It's made less. It's a good thing that the champion, Harolded Comic, never had a script at all, and then just drew bubbles in. The champion was all improv. You know, my whole life is just a big improv. That's true, that's true. A tanking improv session one day at a time. Well, if I could be that funny without a script, I certainly would. Yeah. Of course. I just want to share. I don't know if you remember Mr. T for short, but there was one occasion where I hooked up, at the old house I lived in with a bunch of friends, I hooked up a projector, and we projected your let's plays onto the wall, and we all hung out for the evening and just relaxed to the sounds of Gamer's Tavern. It was really great. And I tweeted a picture of it. Yeah, actually, I remember seeing that. I saw that on Twitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was me. That was pretty cool. That's awesome. Thanks. You know what's great about your content? Okay, so guys, in case we haven't made it clear, the whole shtick that Gamer's Tavern does is he's got, you know, his let's play footage that he's playing games, and he just mercilessly, unyieldingly, one after another after another, just lumbasts you with puns, unceasing, unpity-less, well, I mean, it's not all puns, but there are quite a few. It's not all puns, but it's... Some of it is just commentary on the game, which is also cool. What I love about it is that it's not like completely... There is comedic timing and pauses in between the jokes that is just long enough for it to feel like a realistic pause, which is why we were wondering whether you do it off the cuff, because you're playing the game and there's a pause that is like... It's not so long that it's like nothing is happening, but it's long enough to make it everything really funny and you just sit back and you just let it all wash over you. It's almost sort of anti-humor, in the sense that the pauses are just long enough to give you room to breathe in between the puns, at least for my favorite of your videos. I always think of the Sonic ones when you're on the ice levels. Ice to meet you. Oh, it's snow... Snow problem. Yeah. It's like an Andy Warhol. Wait, is that the right... Who's the guy who Jim Carrey played? Kaufman. Andy Kaufman. That's the one. It's almost Andy Kaufman's style of anti-humor, because the puns are super... They're just incredibly obvious, but it's the way that they're done just over and over and over again just builds up this... It's a slow build until eventually you just hit this peak, like this combo of just hilarity after one after another. It's such an experience. I don't know what it is, sometimes with your delivery. It sounds almost like... You'll make a pun, and then the one I remember is... I think I remember you made a bunch of cloud puns about when Kirby is walking around in the clouds. You'll make a cloud pun and then there'll be a pause and then you'll come back in with your dry delivery and you'll make some more. It's almost like a self-aware kind of like, well, I made one. I have to make some more. I'm just gonna do it again. Do you feel that kind of compulsion to just keep going with the theme as long as possible? What's your thought process as you're coming up with these? I'm going to keep doing this as long as it's on screen. I'll just keep making the joke about clouds or ice or whatever it might be. Yeah, it's something like that. To me, I feel like what's the point of watching a Let's Play anymore if the commentary isn't funny or interesting? Damn right. Absolutely. I work really hard to always have something to say about whatever's on screen or maybe just jokes or puns or whatever. I have to find inspiration somewhere so I kind of look at what's on screen and I try to make puns about it. And then when it's not on screen anymore I make puns about whatever else ends up being on screen later. And then sometimes I'll make jokes. Usually bad ones. I love the distinction between puns and jokes, yes. I feel like I'm getting played right now. I feel like you're on a higher level and you're memeing me at this very moment. Like, I'm just not... I don't know, you're some sort of ancient Egyptian alien pharaoh who understands things in a higher plane than I do. We've only read about this famous tavern on pyramid walls in ancient hieroglyphs and now we've done the summoning circle we have in here today and we can hardly believe it. It's anonic. Well, I guess ancient manuscripts describes me well because I started my website in 2002. Whoa. Yeah, we should talk about that. That's pretty impressive. And then here, you haven't updated I think a lot of your let's plays in a little while but I'm looking at your review updates and you put out your Golden Axe Warrior one like three, four days ago or something and then like two weeks or so before that Axe Battler two weeks before that Golden Axe the Dual so you really churn these things out on your website. I haven't really read too many of them myself but is this more of your passion or this more of your interest kind of doing the reviews as opposed to the let's plays? Well, that's where I started I started writing reviews back in 2003 I started the website in 2002 by the first review I published in 2003 which that's also when I first named the website Gamers Tower because before that I didn't really have a name or design it before that I was basically like those old GeoCity sites from the late 90s that's how it looked like. Just full of anime gifts, no doubt for sure. Well actually it was even less than that it was basically a black background with red text to make your eyes Oh perfect, yes the most delicious I had an old website just like that so we would have been brothers in arms back in the day so I just didn't have the good sense to stop when I kept it going for over 15 years I'm curious what your professional background is do you have any programming or is your field of work related to this in any kind of capacity? Yeah, I guess you could say that I know a little bit of programming obviously I know web, HTML stuff CSS and things of that nature That's cool, that's cool Well, I mean, okay, we've gone pretty in depth with your content which obviously we all love maybe we should open up the floor a little bit I don't know about you guys, but I kind of want to talk about things like other popular let's plays in comparison to Gamer's Tavern and why he is vastly superior by every metric There's a few ways to make a let's play True I mean a bunch of us have done it so we've got insight The legendary T-Bat plays cannot be questioned as the pinnacle of all let's plays it's just that they've retired I think I've told this before but at the peak of all of that, my involvement with the horseshoe crew and my whole deal with those bastards I tried watching T-Bat plays and I couldn't get past one episode and I quit halfway through because it was the worst video I've ever seen in my life and I was so bewildered and disappointed that I couldn't even stand looking at my computer anymore and I had to go for a walk I couldn't believe what I had witnessed Your heroes have let you down Yeah, yeah, literally exactly, I couldn't believe that Phantom Orcheg did this What happened? Do they have a ghost writer for their normal videos? What is happening? Yes They were bad, man Remember the first fighting game Remember the one we did, the fighting game The very first episode we did that was on our main channel that eventually we poured it over as the first episode of T-Bat plays That was that sick like fighting his magic or whatever and that when I put a bunch of edits in and was pretty sick, that one was good that was a quality thing I mean, maybe I'm crazy that I enjoyed T-Bat plays Equestria Bound Over a hundred episodes Over a hundred We were having more time I mean, yeah I guess that's one way to phrase it Thank you for that now, it's kind of be that there is so much content that I have not consumed because I'm normally the content minor I mined as much content as I produced Bitcoin on my computer But I don't Was there anything worth listening to with those? See, that's the thing Let's Plays come in a few camps and T-Bat plays is probably is easily the champion of the terrible Let's Play camp It is not good We simply describe the things happening on screen I think that the true nadir of T-Bat plays was T-Bat plays super lesbian horse RPG because I liked that I thought it was terrible because the game was really text heavy and a lot of what we did was just reading text on the screen At least we did voices We did narrative kind of We did some voices but like how long do those stay interesting really How long will a funny voice I will tell you this though Ben the only video I ever go back to watch from T-Bat plays is the finale of Horseshoe Super lesbian horse RPG when the Anamanaguchi song drops at the end and it's us reacting to it That was good Do you actually go back and revisit that? That one moment, yes I do I have not but that's interesting Maybe I will just for old time sake It's always funny to see what kind of weird not important not grandiose videos that we all secretly have in infinity before and go back and listen to from our past That episode I'm sure does not rake in the view I'm sure is not that popular or that remembered or celebrated but there's just something about that from the past like Measurement Man I fucking love Measurement Man I love that video I forget which episode is from but the moment I put this in one of my videos because I loved it so much but it's when Dude what the freak That one moment of Diggies is so great Well okay What do you guys think of the Game Grumps? Game Grumps? I'll talk about Game Grumps The Game Grumps introduced me to the idea that Let's Plays were not terrible because before that I only ever heard of the idea of Let's Plays, I'd seen things on the side of YouTube Let's play this, why would I want to watch someone else play a game and Game Grumps they were just really funny from day one I saw the video from Egoraptor linking to it and I clicked on it and it was great and to this day I think there hasn't been like a daily upload Let's Plays show that is good we got a start a nation just for the white race Aaron That's John for you Gamestaven do you have any experience watching other Let's Plays? Loads Which ones? Been watching them since 2008 or 2007 or something like that but I got I kind of lost interest in watching them because once the novelty wore off kind of found them boring But there is one one guy in particular I like still and if you like my stuff you probably like his stuff a lot as well His name is Karma Jolt I don't know if you heard of him probably not because he only has like 500 subscribers Googling him But he's really funny and he does the same scripted style of commentary that I do How do you spell that? Karma Jolt is just the word karma Oh Karma Jolt Okay Last video one month ago is channel update moving on Oh no we caught him at the tail end Rest in peace He's not quitting he's just on a break Oh okay cool glad to hear it He kind of updates infrequently kind of like me Actually it's more accurate to say that I'm kind of like him because he came before I did Oh he must be old school I mean I'm seeing I'm seeing like 30 videos uploaded over the course of a month Recently he's been updating more frequently He sure has And his recent videos aren't scripted Okay Oh so Ben would like them is what you're saying They'd be vastly superior Just in principle I would just like to mention for the crowd so I can be vaunted and approved of in the comment section I don't know where on my badge much like call cost victims wore the golden jude and star on their on their shirt proudly I will rare the badge of being one of the few people who found Game Grumps through John first and I clicked on his link from his channel Talk about gamer cred I know I was with John before and I was like John knows Eagle Raptor Eagle Raptor has friends and is like a person that in the physical material world I'm losing my shit and I couldn't believe that my rinky dink God king John Tron knew Eagle Raptor obliterate my perception of reality How big was John at that time? Was he like a 500,000 kind of guy or something? No no 10,000, 50,000 sort of When he made Game Grumps he was that size He was not big he got big from Reddit and it was like a big front page post and he got like a couple thousand subscribers Well not a couple maybe 10,000, 20,000 subscribers And Game Grumps is what like 5 years old now or something? Damn The thing with Let's Plays I feel like there's certain types they usually fall into two main categories one is about the game and the other is about the personalities You can sort of like mix and match like a slider Are you talking about the game more or are you just playing a game and not even talking and it's got gameplay in the background T-Bap I feel like was talking about the game which is why I didn't find it that interesting because I would rather listen to you talk about cool things and then things like Digi's Let's Plays were mostly not about the game at all Victor would be playing something and he was just talking about stuff and he even called it a podcast and like Game Grumps was about the personalities but after a certain point they run out of stuff to say they just Well a few life things change for those boys and they had to change like for Digi Bros they had to like you know they ran out of things to say I was thinking about Game Grumps Were you talking about like the Jontron leaving stuff? At the end of the Jontron era it was sort of winding down as well and then Dan era as you call it it was also sort of like occasionally I'll click on a Game Grumps but most it used to be I would watch every single episode really funny bits I watched I started watching Grumps like a little bit after John left and I got into Dan and I listened to a lot of like the early Dan stuff and I really liked it but yeah eventually it came to be like I feel like we're now revisiting old topics or we're just talking about nothing Well it's just even every day for like years to this point like human experiences and lives are like a physical what's the word like fossil fuel mine like eventually it will all be used up all of your experiences all of the reminiscing you do is like a plus one bitcoin you are mining and you will eventually run out of life experiences that graphics card is gonna wear out exactly fucking survive on that for that long and they've just been talking non stop every fucking day for years of course it's just gonna become nothing makes sense so like there's ways for like the personality driven let's plays to get old because the personality is over exposed to like the internet like people just see them over and over and then they run out of yeah you've been hanging around my house for too long go away that sort of feeling but then the opposite is when it's usually things like gamers tavern or maybe even like some of spoonies early let's plays where it's either like a hybrid or like entirely scripted and talking about the stuff on the screen to the point where it can't really get old because as long as it's funny you just find a way to continue to make it funny you can keep doing this forever yeah it's kind of like I know the game grumps at certain points maybe still we're taking like comedy classes like professional actual acting classes and that kind of stuff so like it seems like they're by doing that they're kind of preparing themselves for like a long term actually delivering like a show and working on like what's the running for extemporaneous comedy or whatever it is improv exactly improv and then like in the same way like gamers tavern were here for example like the way he like you know write scripts and stuff and I suppose it's a little bit different than just like live let's plays or anything but he's also he's like generating content with which he you know will stick in his episodes versus when you as much as saying if you just talk about your life you will definitely at some point just run out of interesting things to say which I think is a lot of people have experienced that with game grumps if you do that for long enough and if you do let's plays you know a lot of the time like a game run then your life becomes telling stories about your life so once you tell your eventual life story and then you get to the part where you start let's play where you're gonna say like oh remember the story that I told wasn't it funny how I told remember that one time we played a game on the show wasn't that crazy that will be your story yeah and then it just gets less and less like interesting because it's less and less like fresh new information for people so I think you really got to do something to like maybe you just like take a break I don't know maybe even for a year and then just like go live a life and have experiences then I mean you'll have built up some experiences that you can bring back and just like dump onto the table again so that's maybe that's the cycle is it maybe it's inevitable the problem with I feel like that's like a good idea to like make good content is like oh take a break experience to things from a perspective the problem is like you just basically torpedo your entire business doing that because like if you stop I hear you YouTube will fucking kill you so like you have to be on their dick 24-7 or the algorithm will murder you well what about this is a theoretical business model like a Game Grumps style channel where you have like hosts maybe kind of cycling in and out of the channel so the channel is always putting out content but the individual contributors have time to go off and kind of mine and then you can remove the game entirely and just have it be the people talking and then and then you can you know you can cycle through the members then eventually the members will get too fancy to actually join so it'll just be consistent group people because nobody bothers you fucking up on me yeah you know eventually the hosts just start procrastinating you know it's fucking it's a disaster it's a disaster well I get it I would like to bring up moment depending on how many tomatoes are thrown my way I'd like to bring up the shitty juvenile embarrassing that I would even talk about this topic of Game Grumps drama just what happened I'm the kind of guy I will not be you know I won't be shy about this fact I am the kind of guy who when John you know left I was the kind of guy typing like haunted Game Grumps rg explain explain to me this content mansion story this is a good opportunity for me to to reveal the truth because John is me and I have told myself the truth and here's what happened John and Aaron they started Game Grumps and then he hit Susie didn't he huh he hit Susie yeah he beat Susie to shit yeah she's a zombie now John and Aaron started the Game Grumps and they didn't know it was going to be a big thing and then it was and then they had to start a they made a joint bank account to have funds go from that so they could both thing but there's like hints here and there that John I mean you know Freudian slips but like he thought of it as his show so what I think happened this is all like out of my brain is that John wanted to stop Game Grumps because he wanted to work more on John Tron he also wanted to go to New York because the continued guys were there and a girl he was talking to was over there and he wanted to go live with her and so what John said is like her name I love Kim possible and then what he did is he said okay I want to quit the Game Grumps but he didn't just say that he wanted Game Grumps to end and Aaron was like well wait why can't we just continue without you and he's like well I don't know I don't it's like there's a big argument because John wanted it to be ended and Aaron wanted to continue without John and John was like fuck you and he left and that's why they were angry at each other and then Danny was brought in to replace him and nobody really wanted to talk about it Aaron didn't want to make John look like an evil piece of shit and John didn't want to make Aaron look like a piece of shit so they just both kept quiet and it became really awkward and that's what I think happened and then of course eventually things eventually warmed up and they are talking and they were on the Star Wars thing together so things obviously if Danny was smaller I could brush my teeth with them if Danny was smaller he'd be me I was just going to say he's just like you that's a good little summary of the whole thing at this point we pretty much all know all the details I mean I still think Susie talking sexy time but no on top of all that John was fucking Susie the whole time she was older there's the hot gossip I came here for indeed well cool so I mean are there any other let's players what about the Yahtzee people were big fans of Yahtzee Yahtzee and the the insufferable game social media Crapcast hang on what was the name of Yahtzee's Let's Play show that he did with that fuckface Gabe I think it was called Let's Drown Out I'm also a fan of Yahtzee's reviews I love Yahtzee he's great and I really like Let's Drown Out and I don't even mind his co-host Gabe most of the time it's just sometimes I just get the feeling that he's the biggest douchebag and I hate him in what way is that from Penny Arcade fame they'll argue a bunch wait is that Gabe from Penny Arcade is that who that is they'll argue a bunch and Yahtzee will accuse Gabe of waffling and Yahtzee will be like well I don't think that's true and Gabe will be like neither do I and Gabe will be like you're waffling just out with it you're waffling I'm not waffling I'm just saying what I think and like I always agree with Yahtzee Gabe is a total waffler just like fucking John Kerry and he'll just he'll talk about how he's like studying to be a teacher like it's really important and relevant to like anything that's going on and it never is and I can't fucking stand it did he ever become that teacher not to the best of my knowledge by the way I'm looking at the channel right now the last let's drown out I can see was uploaded over a year ago wait wait no wait yep a year ago looks like they stopped looks like they stopped because Yahtzee moved to America I think he did that's news to me he's on our soil we can track him down if we're just listening off the people who we watched or do watch currently I'm in the classroom you know electrical beast, billiam c line pop school my personal giants of the industry please I wouldn't be where I am today without watching billiam c's incredible spying cracking mario let's plays those I'm sorry are you saying billiam c yeah billiam c is I don't think so billiam like william but with a b yeah yeah yeah okay here here you know billiam c is don't you yeah I do what do you think about him I think he's great but he doesn't appear to be aware of it huh what does that mean huh I know what you mean I know what you mean you gotta watch retsu pray to find out I was just about to say I watch retsu pray all the time it kind of stopped since they started doing weird kickstarter videos it wasn't too into those but I love retsu play I know about all you know shit through there retsu pray to my knowledge correct me if I'm wrong you're just having it retsu pray is sort of it's a commentary channel where they take let's plays and then they commentate over the let's plays and these let's plays are of dubious quality at best are we talking about like the greatest let's play of all time dark side fill with his how not to play kind of like those no those are commentated this is like a mystery science theater 3000 in these let's plays well that's kind of okay fair enough and the thing that's interesting about it is I'm fairly certain that one of the co's is the guy who like invented let's play yeah his name is slow beef or I think he was either slow beef or diabetes that did the first let's play I think it's slow beef fast beef and so it's interesting to see like this guy who like created this like weird like cultural worldwide phenomenon looking at like the worst of the worst of his spawn and ridiculing them extensively you know that is a fantastic angle is he popular with this series wetsup yeah okay they don't do actual wetsup phrase that much anymore I'm not sure I just realized that wetsup play is a joke on let's play yeah that's what it is fantastic I highly recommend a lot of old ones my favorite one is a billion ones are good my favorite one is when you're here your family I fucking love that one these all sound fantastic I want to watch all of them but I think it's time that we crack open the nut I referenced earlier and talk about the unequivocally greatest let's player in the world with of course the exception of gamers tavern here and the king of hate and the original fighting game master and it's dark side fill dark side fucking fill he is the only V approved youtuber the only one he is incredible he is a god a gamers tavern what is your take on dark side fill if you're familiar with his work I've heard of him but I'm honestly not very familiar with the guy unfortunately fair enough I mean you've been spared a little bit I just like to throw out actually you know what I won't say that okay I will say it since I brought it up but someone just linked me this very morning saying that for the second time give your creaky haunted house needs to shut up recording her podcast they say dark side fill was caught masturbating on stream for the second time okay I like that is not real I don't think because it was just audio he could have just been yawning loudly so frankly I think people are exaggerating with that but he definitely did one time I am not familiar with this phenomenon how does one even make such a following there's something wrong with your yawns that's how I yawn that's how I yawn I mean you know when you stream all day every day sometimes you make a slip up you leave your camera on just the other day I had just finished a live stream and me and the misses were getting up to some activities I was kind of petrified I had continued to stream but luckily I had not but it's just as easy as for getting to click one button some time and there you go this is why no one should ever live stream it's the worst idea in history I thought you were going to say no one should associate with women concentration camps now that's a safe thing too but dark side fill is a legend it's kind of amazing to watch him he's gone through so many ups and downs over his career he's like a slightly significantly more together version of Christian Weston Chandler but like he has his own massive weaknesses as a man he's terrible with money when he started to get big he just bought a big old house and a new car moved out to Seattle and now he's paying for it his girlfriend left him a little while ago I don't know exactly I don't want to speculate on his life too much I just want to state the facts here the fact that he overextended himself and continues to bring up how like he is one of the guys who started Let's Plays before it got big and continued it getting well I don't know if he was it sounds like this Retsu Prey guy actually the first but he was certainly one of the formative people on YouTube doing Let's Plays and just to watch his life and watch him be such a terrible just like guy kind of in general I actually in no way with like these assholes the sons of Kojima that whole crowd that like they find like every reason to shit on the guy that I think is just like way beyond the pale and like not actually fair to him whatsoever like I hate when people take it too far but the tangible things he has done of just being such an asshole and he tells the story one time his like girlfriend was for like something like having like a mental breakdown at work and like making him go like take care of her and stuff like it's entirely possible that she was very inconsiderate at some point in that story but the way that he told it certainly did not paint him with any degree of sympathy and he sounds like a big asshole so but just he's such a character I really want to dive in and I've been thinking of doing a PCB lecture on him specifically so let me know people if that's something that interests you people really want that I think they do want it one day I can't guarantee if a rat gone through or anything but one day I will have to do it I did see the down the rabbit hole about Darkside Phil and my only real exposure to him before that was through the how not to play with Dark Souls and I mean I don't know how much you can infer about a guy based on like what he says while he's fucking playing Dark Souls or whatever but he was a huge asshole and just the most obnoxious dude like especially the way he would like just he would blame the game like his blaming the game was just blaming game is the biggest meme it is the biggest meme about Darkside Phil it's and the wow really you know when are you saying that it's not true I am no no I'm completely agreeing with you he blames the game for like the vast majority of everything that goes wrong when you're playing see the thing with that is that I like I do it too I mean I blame the game like verbally but like when I calm down later I'm like well that was just me fucking up not him not him he does not it's his worldview that like the games cheat my only exposure to Darkside Phil was like knowing vaguely that he is not good at video games and then watching several street fire terminates he was in where he kicked ass look look Darkside Phil Darkside Phil has been riding on this wave of being like a super sick nasty street fighter player like for his entire career and like refuses to play anyone in it it's it's exactly like the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry is like gonna race the guys and he like he chooses not to play he chooses so he doesn't lose his title it's just like that it's just like and you know I honestly I honestly do not have that much hatred for the guy he just seems like kind of a jerk I actually respect him in in a lot of ways in other ways I don't you know just because he seems kind of like a jerk but like I mean hey man he was out there he was one of the pioneers of the let's players he is this guy who realized why don't I just set up my fucking camera behind me film the TV that I'm playing games on and upload these full let's plays you know I it's that's that's I under ironically love camcorder LPs like when you can actually see the screen it's it's super comfy and it's super fucking aesthetic sure and really honestly and gross as me I fuck I fucking love camcorder LPs when they're like when you and of course you can actually see the screen and it's not blinding light I gotta look up how many let's plays dark side Phil has uploaded on his channel DSP Gaming has okay sorry that's the number of subs okay I can't check right now but I think he has like hundreds of thousands of uploads are like the most out of like anyone in all of YouTube some something like that it's doing multiple times a day for like since like YouTube was young yeah and we're talking like 10 a day or something like that for because he splits up his let's plays into so many small individual parts let me just see what he's done today or possibly you gotta get those ad dollars man you're gonna run out on every video let me tell you how many videos were uploaded 11 hours ago one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 11 12 13 14 videos were uploaded 11 hours ago and how about 16 hours ago you might ask one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 11 12 13 and then 17 hours ago 14 15 16 hang on 17 18 19 20 he's uploading he's uploading 34 videos yesterday 34 videos he's uploading over over one video an hour like one and a half videos an hour that's insane they're all like 10 minute you know snippets of this let's play just wow um unbelievable that's that's that's like the brute force as sense method right there it's damn right it is is this the like most optimal way to do this because all these videos have like 150 views or so no it is definitely not nobody has the time for that even if they're only 10 minutes long each yeah it just it just feels overwhelming to just click on the next one every so that's around the views I get yeah exactly and I mean he does put out again so many videos so like I suppose all the views add up to some degree but like I'm looking at his videos from like a while ago they get like 500 views a piece so even if you upload 30 views or 30 videos of this thing if they each get around 500 videos or 500 views that's a total of 15,000 views in one day and that's not terrible I guess but for a guy who's trying to make it is so living I mean that's not that's not sustainable I mean you know what I'm not here to critique his business model really I'm just here to point out that he is a man of legend you know and I wish him well I hope he keeps it up is that what this is about about wishing him well well sort of I don't hate the guy I don't hate the guy I want to talk about like the whole like cutting episodes up into 10 minute chunks I have I used to do Let's Plays and part of the fun for some reason was like having my big recording and then splitting it up into 10 minute chunks and and like uploading like 10 and like spreading them out to release scheduled over like one per day and I I don't know it's just that was a cool thing but like those videos if you ever look at my Let's Plays on Gibbon Gaming the very first ones are like I'm the meekest you could ever imagine even meeker than currently and it's like over the course of the Let's Plays and then into streams you like you can see me grow into a real person yeah I sound like I sound like a mouse in the Rayman 2 Let's Plays you're like a chia pet only far less entertaining yeah they're not even good they've never been good I kind of like gave up the even though I liked splitting episodes up into 10 minute chunks and seeing the uploads like oh yeah look at all these uploads because did you used to say yeah I've made like 100 videos this month and most of them are Let's Plays I'm like yeah I like yeah no kidding I like numbers too I like saying I can upload a bunch of videos but nobody cared and the live streams are so much less editing intensive so much more fun and there are some incredible moments in those linecraft times with Munchie here that's right me I was there if there's anything that I can say video games have impacted my life in such a way it would be that now unequivocally because of video games I love seeing numbers go up that's what I live for when I wake up I'm like what if I see a 6 turn into an 8 today I would lose my fucking mind I love seeing numbers go up you guys know very well that I have grown into watching analytics and compiling spreadsheets in a fetishistic style fixation and it's great and I love it and I definitely think video games like I think of it as a video game in the way that like my stats are rising I'm gonna unlock the ultimate weapon at some point Nate is totally stoked this month to play Taxes 2018 I have been prepping I've been grinding out my skills my documentation I've been basically specking into taxation mode for the last like 6 months or so and it's time to reap my rewards I I wanna comment this is kind of like a weird tangent but I think it's interesting okay so like Darkseid Phil is like one of the the founding fathers of the let's play ethnostate right without question yes but he's averaging like shit views that's true like a month or so ago I was just searching for Homestuck music because that's just the kind of guy I am and I found a video called Doctor Explained by George Bunziaki and I'll link in the comments or something and it's the guy who made Doctor, like the Homestuck track Doctor, at John's Land to do that and it has like 5000 views he has like less than 300 subscribers the guy who made Doctor like probably the most popular well received favorite of the Homestuck entire like OTST Doctor is a fucking nobody he's dead in addition to fucking Africa now no one remembers him no one gives a single shit about this guy even though he made like the most successful fucking track in Homestuck that's the thing right there and it's the fact it strikes me as a little bit unjust like it's not illegal or anything but it's so weird to me that all these people are honestly like significantly successful have their little communities I should get that guy to work for me yeah good maybe he would you know I mean obviously he's got skills but like these guys who just like for example with Dark Side Phil he gets pretty shit views but people just you know like mock him and take his content and like retool it in a mocking way and get just so many more views than he gets and obviously more ad revenue and everything that comes with it and like that's fine that's not criminal it is relatively transformative it just strikes me as like I wish Dark Side Phil was in some way capitalizing on this too because he's just languishing and just it's sound it's seeing it's my you know my my my faint hints of socialism buried deep down in my god damn it I wish he was getting a share of this too hashtag bash the fash I wanted to mention earlier that like going from let's place to live streams is what I did and and a lot of other people have done that some successfully some not one of my favorite who's not I don't really consider yeah it was germa and star to maybe demolition deal a little bit he's a little different but still yeah well what they did was they used to make videos about you know they played a game and then they would heavily edit it so it's like right it's a let's play but without the the boring parts and and it was really funny and they were really funny and they would often collab with each other and both of them have migrated over to twitch which is much more different ways in very very different ways and it's clear that that star is shit now he sucks yeah he's real like he's got really cool new cool like intro graphic he's way more success like like okay like he he he sucks like I would never watch a star stream that would be poison but like he he's way more successful he he's like okay okay well just to explain star and germa are both like team fortress 2 players who basically did almost exclusively team fortress 2 content and then overwatch came out and and and germa just kind of you know stopped doing tf2 but not like you know gotten to overwatch a little bit but I wasn't just his main thing but star got super in overwatch and now he's like like a serious overwatch streamer commentator guy and he goes like overwatch events and he's like a real e-sports boy and uh does that whole scene and it's just dreadful it's just the most boring he's become like he was never that funny but it was sort of like the understated like yeah I'm just playing a game and he does something really cool and he's like yeah yeah you're dead you know whatever but now he's like screaming he's screaming constantly in his overwatch let's please it's bad the screaming is he's not good at it screams are never funny so these guys are like bros though right are they like a team well I mean they're the friends I don't know what the situation is but they haven't like collabed or done anything together in a long time I just noticed they have a channel called stir slash germa stream archive that's uh that's uh someone else like a third party just uploads them has um changed from germa is streaming and he's doing like any game like any game that could be funny and he just makes it like he tries really hard to make like funny comedy videos and he's really good and he's my favorite boy we know this is a very interesting topic the idea of maybe there's like a cultural shift happening now from let's plays to streaming I mean I'm certainly it's way more profitable dude yeah I mean you got your super chat you got your stream labs you got your twitch you know money stuff and obviously that's gonna drive people to do it like I've been thinking about I've really only tried on YouTube so far but at some point I'll probably try switch out and uh or twitch out and like the stream lab stuff and whatnot but like what I'm what I'm thinking about is just like I had been doubting myself like for a long time again we'd all doubted like let's plays and again I don't think they're obviously like gonna stand the test of time as well as I don't know for example a plinkett review but no need to get into that but like the other day I just something that really rocked my fucking world and it was it was just like a snippet of are you guys familiar with doctor disrespect you know that guy so he's like a extremely popular youtuber a twitch streamer who recently had just gotten into he had like a little scandal or whatever I don't care um but like he had like I think this is as you after he had come back and I just saw someone uploaded a thing and here's what happened he's just like he was like hanging out and like someone donated like five grand or something all at once he's like wow holy shit and so he's just you know he's like playing the game and he's you know he's got the facecam on him obviously he's green screened a little bit and he's like wow holy shit hang on guys we just got like a big donation hold up and so he presses a button like on his thing and like the the visual changes and the visual is now we're looking at like a big like night sky skyscraper field with like like there's a big building with like twitch HQ like on the top of the building and I had never seen this before because I haven't actually watched any of his actual streams and it's all of a sudden like on his stream we're now looking at a big image of like this this nightline skyscape or whatever and we see twitch HQ in the distance all of a sudden like on the bottom left of the screen onto this like animation doctor disrespect himself walks out into the animation so and then he points up at twitch HQ and he's like there it is guys twitch HQ I'm taking it for my own today or like some and I'm like what is happening how is he doing this and so so clearly like at home he's got like a setup going on where he's got like a green screen somewhere and he can press a button to like switch the viewer to like go to that and he's got it set up so that he can like suddenly be in this cityscape like looking up at twitch HQ with like his green screen and like camera setup at like any time he wants to he's got this ready to go so he can just like he can be in like this weird cyberpunk twitch future looking up at the fucking twitch HQ I was like this is the most creative use of streaming I've ever seen in my entire goddamn life and I'm starting to get why this might be where things are going in the future that sounds indescribable it was so I was I was rocked to my core I could not believe someone had done this but it was like the coolest thing I've ever seen by far the coolest thing I've ever seen anyone do on twitch or like while streaming it was nuts like he must have had another camera a green screen set up everything's ready to go he must do this all the time but just unbelievable incredible I loved it that's sort of like like real broadcasting so you must have a team of people setting that up so you could click click click change camera everything I mean I was just thinking to myself like how I could do it an exploit which is what I use has like a function where you can just like basically click to switch like views and it automatically does just like changes if you set everything up you can have it like the push of a button if you set up everything ahead of time to just like have that ready to go while you're streaming but still like to put that whole production together is like the idea the idea just like I'm this is what I'm going to set up this is what I'm going to do like that's just this guy just is like he made this animation or something he's just like I'm just going to go now stand for a while look up at this fictional twitch HQ that I've invented in my own little narrative on my stream like holy shit that's like the best idea I've ever heard just I mean if he gets like a regular huge donations of like five grand then I guess easy to pay for that they call him yeah he's doing very very well but like any of us could do this too if we just had like a second camera running and a green screen and all you do is like put the image up or something for first video first video of Radcon three checking the Kickstarter wow guys we got a big donation coming like like cuts cuts to recording of us there it is guys PCPHQ we're going to take it for ourselves all I'm saying is if we have PCPHQ and we have like a live stream room or some sort of like talking room we could definitely set something like this up and I very much want to I'm down to try I would I would love that I'm actually super into streaming I love streaming I think it's really nice I used to stream a lot but I but I've fallen off the wagon now but I really like it I think it's the way of the future I'm curious though Mr. Tabern what do you think of streaming do you see it as possibly the way the future is going or do you think it's going to be equal or just kind of parallel to let's playing stuff or what are your thoughts on the matter well I have no idea really I've never been much for the wave of the future kind of thing if you know what I mean share fair enough fair enough review old games and play older games but on a personal level it's really hard for me to watch streams because they usually happen at very specific times and I prefer YouTube videos because I can just watch them you know whenever I want I do like the main advantage isn't it that's probably one of the reasons why I've never gotten into watching streams I do stream sometimes and I like I like doing them a lot but watch I've never gotten into watching them yeah I guess it's it's fun to stream just because it's there's no like extra editing work you have to do you just do it and once it's done it's up yeah that's great it's a very relieving feeling to just know you're done at the end it's a different feeling from making a product because it's because the whole thing with let's plays is that if it's a personality driven let's play you're basically hanging out with the people on the let's play exactly that's the stream is just like more directly adding to that so that you can chat to the person in time the reason I like streaming is also one of the reasons I don't like streaming it's it's a two headed thing it's a hydro I like the fact that I get instant input and satisfaction for my trials and tribulations within the virtual world but then I also feel like it's kind of sometimes too fan oriented where it just like especially if you're watching stream archives is not like in the streamer hasn't put up like a visual of the chat responding to things in chat and you'll have no idea what the fuck is going on so it's super you know archaic and hard to get into from an archives point of view but I guess that's not the way streams are meant to be played I'm wondering if like maybe it makes the most sense like I was thinking like exactly that like how like if the point of streaming is to get the engagement like from an audience perspective you get to feel like you're part of the action as it's going on which a lot of I think especially a lot of kids will really enjoy because kids have no sense of themselves and they want to attach themselves to like a powerful figure in their eyes etc etc but like maybe like so stream archives are fun and all but you totally lose that sense why maybe stream highlights are the thing to go for that's what german does twitch kind of I don't want to say found a solution but like if you watch if you archive something on twitch and you go back and you rewatch it it archives the chat as well so as you watch that's amazing that's so good your archives on twitch the chat will go in real time with the replay that is why unfortunately all my racist slurs I post in the twitch chat every day I will forever more be seen by everyone watching I was going to be I guess the soul contrarian just like I hate live streaming I hate doing it a lot yeah because I don't know I just I feel really stressed out when I do it I think the reason is that like I either live stream me doing work or I live stream playing video games and the reason I do work is to get work done and I want to stay focused and when I'm sure and I have to like not be focused I got to keep tabs on the chat and stuff and make sure I'm not just because if I'm just sitting there doing work I must just do work like why but my time I will I'm curious haven't you I mean we've been talking about the idea of possibly streaming the PCP recordings haven't you been kind of advocating for that is that a different yes I think that is different and the reason I'm getting the reason I hate streaming solo is because if I'm doing work I want to stay focused and dealing with the chat is just like I'm not good at multitasking so I'll just they'll be like half an hour blocks me just sitting there working and then I'll check the chat and like oh hey and then like half the people aren't talking anymore because no one's paying attention and then when I stream okay when I stream playing video games I play video games to relax and so I can't relax because I have to like try and keep a persona up and be entertaining yeah so both scenarios suck but streaming the PCP would be fine because I'm just talking and that's true that's true you know like we'd all be able to keep tabs on the chat if we had a chat going so I wouldn't be my sole responsibility like there's been huge lolls in the conversation for me while you guys are going off about dark side folks I don't know shit about I could be in the chat just fucking bombing shit out or whatever so like I feel like that would make more sense just for my comfort in terms of like being able to do it but when I just stream solo I hate it like I'm trying to get better because I think there is going to be a big market for that and I think a lot of people are into it but I just I'm not naturally attuned to that medium at all and this is uphill battle for me I like I genuinely like the fact that I have a small stream audience that I get like maybe 20 viewers like you know after it goes on for a long time like 10 people you know that statement munchie is like the equivalent of that old line Ben used to say about how he loved average looking girls he liked normal looking girls you know I don't want those 10's I don't want those actually attractive girls I just want to really say that I'm going to go king of 5's that's not the same at all everybody knows what I'm talking about everybody knows about like you know the like the blonde tan look is not for everybody you know the the the classic 10 out of 10 is not for everybody Ben likes attainable girls everybody that's not even true and if I said that one time it was ironic the reason I like it is because then I can just play the game and the chat is not always going I don't have to always look at my phone and you know see the chat open and respond to it it can be a slow you know drip of a fan interaction so I can pace myself I can respond to the game it's like a let's play but occasionally I can have fan input and this is the second thing I'm about to say here goes into my weird two headed double think about streaming is whenever I like put a joke in a twitch chat and the streamer is like haha like I see that like like like a very funny munchie W tiny hats I'm like I've been validated my life is worth living I can go to sleep a happy man if I were to if I were to die today I would I would die fulfilled a half happy life but then when I'm in chat and I'm in a stream I'm just like watching and then like like I see I see the fucking face cam I see the streamer with his dopey fucking expression look and like lean forward at the monitor like like looking and like reading chat and I see him go that that's a funny one Excalibur 2007 I find to find to an uncontrollable rage that this fan interaction is being in the place of my of my timeless media it's getting the place of my timeless content and it's ruining the fucking experience like and I off the handle and I cannot accept it as valid artistically I fucking I I I hate it when it's not happening to me I definitely feel like there's a place for both like let's plays as like rewatchable things that aren't like in the moment stuff and then also streams I feel like you can do you can be a streamer who also does let's plays I don't know if anyone actually does that but like I mean I the Spoonie experiment let's plays where he's just he does like Phantasmagoria and this this Ripper game they're like old Windows PC point and click games with like full motion video sequences and he he riffs on the game he's just he's playing it and he's occasionally he explains something to the audience but most of the time he's just you know doing like that guy with the glasses reactions to things but he's not like on camera or anything it's just like a let's play show of you know him playing through the game and reacting to things as they come and you know it's kind of like a hybrid of like it recorded at the time and also scripted stuff and the scripted stuff the aspect of that that's like scripted and cutting out like really boring parts is what makes it so rewatchable I think I've rewatched him play Phantasmagoria to like eight times and it's like a six hour let's play like they're just like it they're so rewatchable so like I try to rewatch Digi Bros but because because it's all about like stuff that's currently happening to Digi and Victor it's hard to like get into it again because it's so long in the past and it's not even that particularly interesting you can just jump in anywhere in an episode you have to start from the beginning of each series yeah and it's like the things like what Gamers Tevin does and what was the guy you recommended Darkseid Phil? the one he recommended Retsu Prey? yeah Retsu Prey were you referring to Hippo? no no the other one are you talking about who I recommended? Cormor Jolt I'm gonna look at him because I feel like if anything like yours look at his early stuff they're gonna be like things that you can just rewatch and put on at any time to just like ah man remember this I could come back like 10 years later and watch a Gamers Tevin let's play because they're just like funny things they're basically timeless you just filed for your second mortgage and your wife has left you and you're stuck with two rodin kids who don't respect you or love you in any way you can look back on the old times and just play a playlist of Gamers Tevin videos while you put the fucking pistol in your mouth ready to meet your fucking maker oh looking a little cloudy outside gets hit by a cloudy with a chance of pain balls got em classic Gamers Tevin quotes you're fucking grey matter slammers over your decals incredible well hell guys we've got quite a journey here maybe are we done here should we get to the questions at this point I'm feeling pretty good what about me what about me and my legendary let's play does nobody going to bring up the elephant in the room oh of course the nuzlocs you know I wasn't thinking the nuzlocs I was thinking there's like more nuzlocs to me are like a sub category of let's plays I suppose that are just infinitely better in every way well yeah the ben saint nuzlocs are of that sort of same like rewatchable quality although I have not gone and rewatched them I probably should I just since we're on the subject I want to say about that whole thing that I was really going for I was really going to like take an extemporaneous improvised format like a let's play and turn it into not a scripted but turn it into like a narrative of course not you can't discredit your own statements from earlier can't be scripted well yeah yeah no it was totally unscripted it was totally it was totally raw it was totally raw artistically but ben put like the basic plot points in order like he's you know a weird dictator murdering pokemon and whatnot you know like that was all delete from the watch later right now that all came up that came up kind of kind of off the cuff like I wasn't planning that when I started it right with your first one that's true that's true more for the second one that was yeah like that was all kind of and it was just like anything that comes up anything that gets brought up as like a joke will continue to be relevant and will become lore you know was the goal there and work yeah yeah you're right it's I don't know if I would even really call it a let's play I mean it is but it's really its own animal it's really just its own piece you know it's something greater it's something greater than anything it's great let's play it's it's more artistic than your commonplace peasant let's play the big scene let's play it is truly you know a breed it's own yeah yeah yeah I would certainly recommend Ben's Nuzlocke's if you have the slightest interest in Pokemon or Nuzlocke's I was a genocide is better than conquest um oh yeah which one do you like more ah yeah it's tough I would probably have to go with genocide but they both got their they both got their their charms they both got bananas which is the one with bananas that's genocide then genocides better yeah yeah bananas is a pretty legendary moment also which is the one with uh the radicate whip stitch that is also yeah that's also genocide yep genocide wins genocide wins I have to mention how I famously ripped off whipstits with a lowland radicate and named him witch whip stash and used Ben's own tactic against him I have to bring that every single time Ben using that yeah I did I'm so proud of myself that's what I think about when I go to sleep I sue the pain and all the all the dead souls looming in my ear by just thinking about how I pull that off expertly fantastic well done congratulations that did happen it was canon former vice president Joe Biden did do all of the things Munchy just described that's right that's right I actually want to extend this a little bit here Nate if that's alright Ben brushed up upon something that I would like to mention uh how not not not he did not actually mean this it was me me saying this but uh how some like like the let's plays there are two dudes talking and let's plays that are you know two or you know people talking about the game there's various types of let's plays of varying quality and I would like to get to the hard matter here are let's plays like like good are they good does just playing a game and coming to a constant being good content and you know it's a fuzzy area but it's lofty and retarded but uh I think like the two different types of let's plays personality or like a presentation or like a show like an edited show uh it just depends on a like if it's a personality thing that you don't do it too much I guess well actually no that's not really a question the question is are they good in general they can are they art are they art are we using the super narrow definition of art no what I think it is is that my opinion is that let's plays playing a video game in and of itself is not art there's nothing artistic about it and if you're making a let's play just because you're like I want to play video games and get paid for that's the dream you're going about it wrong well let's play is a foundation on which to build art on top of playing the game has to facilitate some sort of creativity or some sort of entertainment value whether it's presentation or personality or it's a it's a platform to showcase something beyond just playing the game itself I feel like this is sort of wrapped up in the fair use question where it's kind of unclear whether or not like a let's play is a transformative work legally speaking but like just as like I think there's things that like long plays are probably the least art which is just showing especially when there's no commentary I love watching long plays so I have to actually play the game that's what they do but there's other things that don't really require a personality or like an edited show which is speedruns which is basically like it's the same as a long play it's just less long in a way in a way that's true there's a lot going on in a speedrun but Ben go ahead guys speedruns are really great when it's a game that you know really well you know because like these people are showcasing their mastery of the game and really breaking the mechanics to like optimize you know completion time and what not which is in and of itself sort of you know like changing the game I mean it's not actually changing the parameters what the game allows I think it's a documentation things like speedruns are like just a document a technical manual of a thing I guess and then if somebody makes a documentary about people's speedrunning then it's uh but before that it's just like here's like footage of me trying my best here's a question is a comedy routine art that like a comedian does on stage is that art or does it become art if you film it are either of those art both are clearly both are okay so we can all agree at the very least that what gamers tavern does for sure is art when I say art I know that obviously it's a big term but what I mean is does it hold the same like cultural like culture per turn output or like societal you know pressure like like like you know the holy titans like 3d anime or supe house for example though like uh ego raptor did of course this famous sequel on megaman x but then he also did a long solo let's play I think he either completely or mostly finished megaman x is one of those art and the other isn't if so why because they basically do the same thing wait so I've never seen the second video you're talking about so I it was a single let's play on game grumps where Dan was sick or away or something just talking about the game he was playing it and talking about it I mean you've got to just ask the question is somebody talking art that's exactly what I was about to say are two people playing a game constitute art are six people talking about let's plays art is this art we'll see that's the thing we have to completely put aside the question of quality quality is completely irrelevant to whether or not it's art or not irrelevant I would say that yes it is art yeah it's a sort of performance because yeah it's it's kind of performance it's it's recorded it could be edited you know I guess it depends on the presentation or like the intention I guess because like I wouldn't say like if you go to college you sit down a big fucking auditorium and like someone presents you biology I wouldn't call that that presentation art but if the what if the man makes a single joke within the context of this lecture then the joke the joke is art but not the whole thing just the joke I just think that that's this whole idea it's silly like if it's if it's if it's a recorded product somewhere for people to if it's made for an audience the definition of art is like really undoable and like at the end of the day rather irrelevant it's all great like it's an unspoken truth that we all have like fuzzy artwork legitimacy hierarchies oh for sure like subtlety like each it'll change for each genre or medium which we consider more art regardless of how retarded that is or how conceited that is how I famously set fire to the the petrol black oil doused wooden altar of porn and books their artistic credibility ruined literature and porn forever and no one could view them as anything that have you know our artistic quality of them well in the day like all art is art and like there's nothing but pretension and segregated but we all do it you're asking you're asking for an authority here and luckily for you I have the authority right here its name is and we've got the definition of art allowing to provide it to you so we can settle this debate for all time here we go art art is used as the shorter version of the common British greeting all right it means that you're okay with something and accept Jim wants to go to Walmart Quinn hell yeah Jim I'll pick you up in ten Quinn art the end that's it if Sue were going to have to saw you apart that's wrong that's incorrect it's right we don't say the A bit we just say right that's how we say all right over here okay fair enough so you can't make that well now we know come to the end of the podcast and now we know how they say all right in the UK all right well yeah exactly I just want to say one thing uh if say Munchie was not any internet guy I just saw him on the street and he was saying a speech he was just talking funny and I was like yeah that's funny if I was just doing arm retrieval alone behind the fucking dominoes walking down the streets doing an arm retrieval and I was like huh that's that's a funny talker I like that word Smith right there would that would me watching him or listening to him just in person as a human being would that be considered art yes I have something to say about this okay okay okay imagine you're in a quirky comedic or otherwise interesting scenario like Kimbo just mentioned being explicit like it doesn't matter what you're something in your life is unfolding and entertaining and provoking way and and and and it's something that you would you know present to others to the unwashed masses first of all is the experience of this scenario are inherent or and secondly what would be this is what I want to what would be more artistic you telling your story to someone or you recording the scenario let me break here okay here's definition who is the answer to this question I think this is actually a very good definition from urban dictionary on what art is once when asked or art once when asked what trans-Siberian orchestra was about Paul O'Neill replied it's about creating great art when asked to define what great art was Paul said the purpose of art is to create an emotional response in the person that is exposed to that art and there are three categories of art bad art good art and great art bad art will elicit no emotional response in the person that is exposed to it good art will make you feel an emotion as you have felt before you say blah blah blah and great art will make you feel an emotion you have never felt before etc etc that's the rest I think that's I like his first statement before delineating between them if you feel an emotion that's it yeah it's art and and I mean this podcast and any and all let's plays by that definition art do qualify so so so if I if I touch a burning stove and I go out does that mean that's art that experience was art the experience is art your decision to touch the stove was the art there's always going to be arbitrary lines I know it will but there will be like some gatekeeper the reason it's so like everybody always argues about what art is and like the parameters of what you can define as art and like oh but what about this what about that the reason is is that art is if it like applies in that way which I probably would agree with it becomes mostly useless and you just have to use it colloquially like if you see a painting people generally accept that a painting is art you see it on the wall and you're like yeah that's a good piece of art and even if something else would qualify most people like like somebody just talking on the street really in a funny accent you're like whoa that's cool I feel an emotion nobody would say that art they just say I saw this real cool guy today and that's what they would say give us right ethnic minorities are art for sure I would say that art needs to be created so this means in your scenario if I had wrote a script for Armory and then was reciting that script while banging trash cans and pushing over homeless people then that would be art but if it was well that would rule out improv I guess I don't know it's never going to be something that anyone can define except for what the wider consciousness of the world of people generally think of as art is like media and things that are like things that we like yeah that's art even if other things qualify we'll just say here's a cool thing I think I have it it has to be a creation for an audience so if I were to touch a stove and get my hand burned that would not be art but if I was like hey check out this dude watch me touch the stove I was like ow and then I did a like a cartoonish like suck my dick afterward get that nice and wet okay but what if here's a thought though what if a lightning hits a beach one day and forms like this beautiful like circle of glass somehow okay let's say maybe that's not even art right then but what if a guy discovers this is like wow this is beautiful comes by like puts a frame around it and starts selling tickets to come see this artwork this natural artwork at what point did it become art if any it's not art it's a product at that point no that's that is totally art in the same way that photography is art because you can take a picture of something that naturally exists and it becomes art because you've curated it you know you because you've excluded you've chosen what to include and exclude for show but he hasn't done that he just put a frame around something that framing is delineating what is and isn't part of the artwork you can say if they put the frame in a specific way to frame that natural formation and the background and you were only supposed to view it from the specific angle then fine but if you if you're someone who's just like hey check out this thing on the beach here's give me five dollars to look at it that wouldn't be art well he had to choose the frame this this comes to what I was asking earlier where what is more artistic like like like telling the story of a scenario or recording the scenario because like recording is like the obvious like oh you have the video file there's a difference in scale I definitely think so I definitely think so I think that the story is more artistic because you're using words in specific ways and and telling because you know when you're telling a story it's not going to be completely factual you're going to make you're going to use different words that will have a different meaning in other in everyone's else's heads like so one word will be different for different people but if it's like a recording it will just be like you know a recording all I know is that this we can go back and forth on what's artistic what isn't all I want but this entire conversation is definitely autistic and I'm done well I was going to bring it back around I think the best way to solve this is is art is whatever you want it to be yeah it really is that's pretty much what it comes down to and that's why gamestaven is the best let's player of the world is the european union art definitely because they had to curate it because it was created for an audience and that audience is God indeed alright guys I think we've hit the wall here I think we've done all we can do is God and we just we just have to let the audience sort out our our science that we have witnessed before them or we've displayed our our patantic bullshit arguments that mean nothing but but but nevertheless we care intensely about of course course well that being said everybody I should have said this at the very beginning by the way but I just want to make an announcement rad con three arena is one hundred percent funded and is one hundred percent happening now the five members here plus digi march 14th or so it's entering the arena hashtag enter the arena it's happening next stretch goal so we can get some fucking grow ago pros and I can shoot the shit I can fucking straight up Abraham Lincoln Nate best you give me the money wouldn't it be John Wilkes Booth well it's not I guess they're both Abraham Lincoln you fucking big it up there it up we can can one V one best guy ever versus worse guy ever in the arena battle and remember please keep there's a link in the description of course to the Kickstarter if you would just want to give money thanks well we can always use that again fund the stretch goal for the enter the arena the rad con three arena IRL shooting each other with guns and go pros and what not I really hope that happens real guns we're buying glocks for everyone indeed it's gonna be great we're gonna have to invest in like double jump jet boots for everyone as well it's gonna be pretty pricey but we'll see what we can do I'll keep you guys posted on Twitter I'll let you know when I locate the quad damage and the mega health in the side of the arena I'll let you know so you can keep up and also feel free to keep giving money if you want to pledge the $50 thing for the for the the shirts the hundred dollar for the shout out during rad con and if you want to get that thousand dollar if you want to be in the royal rumble is there still time there is still time my friends as well as you know $20 for the for the pin and $10 at least for the behind the scenes content that's something that people might want you know at any time behind the scene stuff wait there is I want to shout something out real quick but I have to find it there's a comment that I want to shout out on a on the Kickstarter or where no on a previous video okay well while you look for that yeah Nate would you like to show us the the pity poor fuck peasant surf question from the twitter indeed I would yeah actually I want to give a shout out to the twitter boys because there was a couple of questions here they're actually pretty good that I'm I'm fond of so we might do more than one pity question oh my god oh my god and again that's on at tpcrasnators as our twitter and using hashtag ask PCP when we record on these Saturdays that's generally when we're going to see your question so keep it as follow us so that you see the notification so you can send your questions in there but here we go from this is this is one of my favorite questions of all time at Neuer Borno asks why do bitches have time to hit the club every night but don't have time to attend one parent teacher conference because they're too busy hitting the clubs because they didn't have any kids in the world you should never be allowed ever seen if there's any failure here it's my delivery that question is awesome and hilarious and I'm glad everyone saw it when you were like finally we're gonna have a good question on this show we found the one good question and we found the needle in the haystack of these shitty horrible questions we've finally done we've started on a strong foot here I have found the best question we've ever been asked the best guy ever reading from the sacred text that is the twitter I was prepared I was pumped up but you have shoveled me shit and I will I will rue the day you were born alright alright here's one that's actually got substance to it again from the twitter at LibRplex I think from LibRCock exactly aside from the things immediately relevant to your career what other internet slash IRL communities are you part of that's an interesting question I think communities yeah I mean for example just one that I'm kind of part of is like the fit board on 4chan like it's in no way really relevant to like any of my content or whatever but I sure hang out with those guys and talk about stuff and we talk about fitness and whatnot so that's one for me that's one for me pretty cool dude my answer is kind of sad because our in cells our in cells yeah 2017 was the year of the shrinking circle for me where I went from you know not particularly a lot of communities but over the course of my involvement with the PCP my soul has been sucked and my life has been drained and I found myself becoming a part of less and less communities obviously not part of the PCP you know I was not doing that but I just you know coincidence time frame reference as a man focuses on the things important to him in his life he'll have less time to deal with the things that are less important and you know I think that's a natural consequence so you know I used to frequent like you know like like V and stuff you know not super in depth I used to go in tumblr I used to you know do a whole bunch of stuff but now I used to be part of you know fandoms and shit but that was you know that was that was way further way now yeah I used to be in tons of stuff but now I I'm really only you know a part of this circle which is you know you guys are nice and all nobody's forced to do shit munchie this is not a pity party that's not what I'm saying at all now that's not even the point you fucking bigoted fuck I'm just saying that I I'm not part of any communities and I will make that my goal for 2018 is that I need to be I want to get back in the groove of going on different websites and you know you know hang out with different people I think yeah that's I do too I do too I feel like I'm not I'm not as active around the internet as I used to be outside of the PCP and that kind of sucks it's healthy you know you gotta you gotta live a life to have the right to reminisce you gotta know more people so you can kill more people that's my golden rule exactly I found the comment I was looking for by the way oh okay it is on the the Radcon 3 Kickstarter announcement it's one of the top it's one of the most liked comments on there and I want to encourage you do not like this comment because Russell posted Russell the Gengar posted saying if his comment gets 111 likes he'll enter the Royal Rumble and kill me oh no he's at 68 likes so far so he's more than halfway there and if that were to happen I would shit my pants we're close we're fucking close so what do you mean we what do you mean we who's side of you our guy Russell I mean guys you have the fate to put Russell in the Royal Rumble it seems if you if you if you would so desire to see Ben vanquish by his ghostly I mean yeah if anyone were to imagine how a ghastly would translate onto a humanoid WWE custom character well he's involved into a Gengar now right he did eventually evolve into a Gengar okay get those likes up hashtag let Russell wrestle it's gonna be hashtag let Russell please everyone it's time it's time to make it happen Mr. Tavern what communities would you consider yourself a part of I forgot was the question about online communities or it actually said IRL or online it's all open as far as online goes nothing really now I used to post on a lot of forums in the early 2000s and frequent IRC chat rooms and stuff like that and I used to have a forum on my own website as well mm-hmm but now I'm not really part of many online communities I'm just flying solo yeah like our hero Jason Derulo feels bad the only community that I'm involved in that has nothing to do with my work is the gay community the best well I wouldn't say that Tom I see a lot of that projected into your work so you know you know you got me there you can't completely expunge all your influences what can I say gamer I was a huge forum rat though not in the early 2000s because I was too young but in like 2010 I was a huge huge forum user as as I've talked about in my embarrassing role plays role play episodes so I can explain I can explain my various role play pedigrees because I have numerous that's not a bad idea it's not a bad idea it could be a bonus press one if you want to hear about munchy role plays the question is sick the question was also about IRL communities if you guys like do anything sorry to interject but I am actually part of one forum right now it's called hardcore gaming 101 it sounds like my kind of plays sounds like some place dark side filled with hangout it is basically just they do game reviews and they have a forum you know very similar to my website actually I started first they started 2004 I started in 2002 yeah got them be sure those youngsters what for we haven't said the name of your website I think it's just is it gamers tavern.com yeah that's it yep gamertaverns.com there you go everybody read the reviews the longest running most fantastic website review site ever fuckgamespot.com fuckign.com you want the fucking great shit you go to gamers tavern you know at gamers tavern.com you're not getting any of that corruption that journalistic corruption at some place like kotaku journalistic integrity gamer tavern the most ethical person known to man his scruples count is as high as the fucking hammer you know hammer units when I do a dance he may denied with his dying breath but I suspect that gamers tavern is both the alpha and omega of gamer he's the source and the end of all of it well I did write an article about it what were your thoughts I actually didn't know anything about it that's the best place it was it's a joke it's a joke article fantastic I did absolutely no research for that one that's exactly how much you should do because he didn't even know what it was he didn't even take a side talk about journalistic integrity not even willing to be corrupted by the facts of the case that's what he just said incredible beautiful well hey I think there was one more question oh ok here's one final question from the twitter from atreadordarrow and this is incredible are you aware that in the same month as radcon 3 the muppet baby's reboot will also be released both will feature six members and both will have members absent from their previous installments and here's the question coincidence I think not what do you think loyal viewer we'll leave it up to your interpretation which muppet baby are we you're definitely animal because you're an animal in the sack as we all know wait no he's a baby you can't say that oh no that has never stopped me before that's why I'm getting that right now yes it's true now that those fucking poor people questions are out of the way indeed if only the contents of their wallet match the contents of their brain indeed oh and by the way excellent we said patreon.com slash the procrastinators pledge as little as $1 and you're into our patreon lounge and then $5 more to get those sweet bonus episodes which we just released just to remind everybody gamergate versus the 2016 united states presidential election the most legendary of all bonus episodes but this is from the patreon lounge xeno grade do you think guide slash wikis ruin the experience of playing the game oh what a question yeah well okay my response to that is have you played minecraft or terraria without having the wiki handy you will kill yourself it's you know terraria is actually interesting because the guide is really nice that's true but when I just want to say about terraria since you mentioned it I played terraria blind the first time I did and I actually did get a strong sense of satisfaction in like the very start when I played it but when I started to look up just kind of like the little tasks that I should be doing I got a lot more focus and it really made the experience like more fun to do it that way in my experience the experience of playing door fortress like is mostly reading the wiki that's like is the texture of the game is the wiki because I don't know maybe it's possible to learn it without that but if so do you feel like games that require looking at a wiki do you feel like they're like victims of bad design should that be necessary I think times have changed a little bit I feel like if it can be like an addition like you play a game all the way through and you're like well I didn't really understand some of these things and you look up the wiki like I don't know Dark Demon Blood all those games have the lore and the first time you play it you're like I don't know what happened but I enjoyed myself and then you go look at all the the big old theories and stuff and the explanations of the lore and you're like oh cool now I care more Dark Souls is good enough on its face the one thing that's maybe a little bit worthy of criticism is like it's really hard to get your footing at the beginning of Dark Souls and like figure out where Andre is and like how to upgrade weapons like that can take like a lot of hours of gameplay before you understand that stuff that's the one way I would criticize it with the lore though that really is just like stuff to explore once you're already into the game so I wouldn't really criticize it on that front too much but like Ben remember in the old days when we would like go to game facts and like print out sheets of like how to do stuff and like Secret of Mana and like Mario Mario RPG and stuff staple them together and keep them in the box that all our video games were those were the old days but like with the modern world being the way it is I am much more forgiving of like games sort of like Dark Souls or right now I'm playing Stardew Valley and that game like there's it's similar to like you know your Dwarf Forges sort of or like your Terraria and what not yeah it's no Dwarf Forges more like Terraria yeah but like in that game there's a lot that you need to either just like patiently wait to figure out but I'm way too like goal-oriented to wait for that so I'll like look things up on the wiki but it's so easy just to google and go exactly where I need to go like every game is it's own wiki now with all the information it's so easy to like find the question the answers to the questions I want to know so I'm way more forgiving now and I wouldn't really call it necessarily like bad game design with something like that because I don't want to read a page after page after page of tutorial in a game when I can just super easily google you know Stardew Valley wiki how to grow a certain type of fruit that I need for like the community center or whatever I would much rather just do things at my own pace outside the game and then well might Stardew Valley doesn't have any like time restrictions right like like a harvest moon really harvest moon you had to do everything in like in a in a very tight time frame and like to play that game like and get a good ending you really like needed guidance but I feel like Stardew Valley is designed differently whereas it doesn't really matter whether you're playing optimally or not I mean the worst-case scenario is that like you miss a window and you have to wait a whole year to like do it again like and that's gonna that's gonna be frustrating but you will always I think have more time to do more as it keeps going I don't think there's any kind of hard end to the gameplay though I'm only you know I'm not even through my first year of the game so I'm not really sure but like but I do want to make a distinction there's a hard end and the first harvest moon for the Super Nintendo oh there is one like 97 or 98 I'm only familiar with the one for the N64 which does I mean it's got it doesn't have a hard ending but it's got like a point where like you need to have completed everything by and then and that's like sort of the ending here here's what I want to make a distinction about like if a game a game should be like I don't know I'm right now I just got like the new like Dragon Ball Z Dragon Ball Fighter Z game and like I don't really like fighting games in the way I have to like in a super like non-natural kind of annoying way I have to like study to learn how to do the basic mechanics of the fighting because there's like a lot of like that is just not fun for me but if a game like like a Metroidvania on the other hand like builds the game in such a way that it forces you to like learn every mechanic as you go and so it kind of naturally develop the skills you need to do the techniques as you play through it and like it becomes a real integral part of the experience that you can't just skip over now that and then so by the by the when you started playing at the beginning of the game versus at the end you have just naturally developed all these skills as part of the progression of the game now that is something I really enjoy that's my favorite way to do stuff like that I think when it right me too I think when it comes to to guides and stuff if if you can just pick up a game and turn it on and play it and like get the gist of how the game is supposed to be played enough that you can start to get into it then I think it's fine I think I think when a game doesn't make sense or isn't fun unless you use a guide that's that's the point of which guide the most important part of the game is just badly designed the most important part I think of any game is that initial curve to get you like hooked on the game like that is like the most critical moment and Dark Souls has a pretty steep one just as one example and something like like a Metroid for example I think is like way lower which is why it's like easier to ease your way like into a Metroid than like Dark Souls or something Hippo there are certain games now where like with like Minecraft tutorial where I just mentioned there's like there's like sometimes like built-in guides like you know there's the guy where you can go to the materials and you can you know see how do I make this he'll tell you Minecraft there's like a whole like recipe book now but with one game particular Civ Civilization which I've been playing a lot now as you probably tell the views can help by my by my dialect nowadays but uh there is a actual like Wikipedia inside the game called the Civ Lepidia where you can just like press like escape like go to the menu and then you can just like open that and there's like a fully functioning like Wiki for Civ that explain the details the hard stats and percentages on stuff is inside of the game so like is that part of the game now because it is like legal like like it's telling you to search things up on there and it's like you know I encourage you to do that is that part of the game now I think I think it's it's kind of the same as like well I don't know about Civ because I'm played it but like things like Final Fantasy 13 is like notorious for if you don't read the the data logs of information on the things nothing in the story will make sense at all basically which is yeah I remember that and it's like it reading things is boring in a game most of the time unless you're already invested and you want to know more if you have to read like loads of data logs it's just sort of annoying so I don't know how it is in Civ I assume it's fine yeah it's yeah you don't need to do it ever but it's just like you know like it's nice because you can just like press like oh like oh what is what's this guy unique ability and just like you know press escape like look it up but it feels like it feels almost like it's whatever I do play a game and I'm like I don't want to figure out to do this just to show me the you know just wiki please I always feel like I'm snidely whiplash like I'm a cartoon villain on the run from the fucking FBI and they're going to track me down and shoot me right where I stand but with Civ the Civlopedia it just feels like this is just part of the game this is just what you're supposed to do they are giving me this option and it feels way different it feels like I'm not a criminal on the run pedophile I feel like I'm not Dan Snyder yeah there's my one of my favorite memories growing up though this is where I didn't feel like snidely whiplash and I felt like a fucking god is when me and my friend we're playing Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness incredible love that game fucking great we were playing that and we you know we just like Google search like Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness like tips and tricks and then we found this like really really shitty game facts guide which like was like incomplete I guess it just showed you what like shadow Pokemon were in each area but not like who had them like you know who you know in that game you had specific people had specific Pokemon you had to fight those people to get those Pokemon so we just knew that they were somewhere in the level so whenever we were in a level I would like check the fucking you know guys like which Pokemon are where and like dude you're not gonna be this you're gonna fucking amprose this level and you would just be like what and then we would search we would battle every single conceivable person we found that fucking amprose and the moment someone throws an amprose and then that animation player where the guy like unloads glasses and he fucking like zooms in like you know like tactical lens we would fucking scream the top of our lungs we finally found the fucking amprose that we needed and we would throw as many balls as we could and it was the greatest experience in my life and I loved it so that's it's a time the guide guides hide in the experience tenfold well excellent yeah all right there's another question wrapped hey but before we read like another one or two questions there was one thing that I forgot that we did want to address here so okay slightly serious topic everybody but just want to you want to do this at the end in the middle of questions well I suppose if you want to I mean do we have other questions lined up there's only one more that I would like to do okay okay go for it it's from Mozilla Finneken which games have you played to 100% completion is getting 100% a gratifying experience or a complete waste of time and where is the line stand in between those two I am a 100% guy that's like what I do I'm the kind of guy where if I like a game I will do to 100% famously I had well you know I was kind of that opinion until actually fairly recently two games have made me really rethink this whole 100% thing and I think that it really just depends on the game and those games are Breath of the Wild also Metal Gear Solid 5 and then also Mario Odyssey those games all three of those are a total weight you know also actually Kingdom Hearts 2 like my favorite game of all time is 100% not worth completing because you got to do all that gummy ship stuff that sucks dick and is not fun and is not cool or interesting if I if I don't 100% a game I feel like I haven't really beaten it well no I feel exactly the same way no there are some games that just like can you imagine 100% in Metal Gear Solid 5 taking photos of every single thing of wildlife bunny hops video is legendary on that front and it looks terrible you have not done all the game has to offer you have okay but literally not all of the game is that fun or worth your time to do I think it comes down to like games that are built to be like have a certain amount of content and that games that are built to end satisfyingly at 70% and then 30% of it is just monotonous stuff padded out in usually an open world game where you just have to go around that's how I felt about recitere like after the main story and even a little bit before like toward the end of the main story and definitely passed it because like there's bonus content like there's extra characters to unlock but it was like oh my god you have to do these fucking dungeons like a thousand times I'm just not up for grinding that I'm totally up for 100% of a game where like all 100% of the content is engaging like I did 100% of Fallout 3 because all the content that I found very entertaining it was interesting there's lots of quests and I got the DLC and it was like fun but Metal Gear Solid 5 I could never 100% that game and even like when like the main campaign starts getting really grindy I get pissed off because I'm playing Metroid Prime 2 and I'm at the point where like you have to go back to all the places you've been before and just scan all these corpses and like they reveal like a secret part of an item you need to like unlock the final part of the game and like the most annoying part is I've already scanned all these corpses because I'm like obsessively like scanning and trying to like read all the lore so I already know like where they are but like I don't know where they are so I have to go all the way back and find all these things all over again that I've technically already done it's infuriating okay we had like what is the actual question we're asking because I feel we're coming out from slightly different perspectives like guys like Munchie and Gibb or I don't know whoever was saying it I know Munchie was like if you soldier through and in fact 100% complete a game have you absorbed more of its content are you like more of a master of all the content that someone has I've got a perfect metaphor I've got a perfect metaphor for this it's like a big old plate of food you know you can eat the entire plate of food even if you know you get full at like 80% and you can it feels good to like you know eat all the food and then it's a clean plate and you're like yes I ate the meal because it's there but a lot of the time it's better to stop when you're full because it will be better for you in the long run you will just feel more satisfied afterwards you won't feel bloated you won't feel like a tired it will just be good it's a good metaphor because you can always come back and have more food later you can always go back and finish the game later if you feel like it but I won't because fuck that okay to go with this food analogy playing a game is like eating ice cream to me in a cone where the main game will be the ice cream but then the after game is the cone and the cone is delicious so of course I'll eat it it's like have you really eaten the ice cream you can't just throw the cone away you can't throw the crust of your pizza away you fucking guys are thinking way too simplistically about this the objectively correct answer is it depends it depends on what question we're asking yeah go ahead I guess there are some games where I wouldn't feel like that but in general if a game is like a story game and has like a campaign okay let gamers have yeah please personally for me I feel like I used to like I used to enjoy 100% in games back in 80s and 90s but the newer games they got way too big and they take way too long and a lot of the extra content isn't fun right in my opinion so for example like in chrono trigger ah yes when you get near the end of the game there's a bunch of side quests that open up that are optional and you can do them and they're all really fun they all give you really good rewards they all have a lot of good character development and they add to the story and the attention that is given to these side quests is almost the same attention they give to the main game you know as if the same budget and the same treatment was given to the side quests but in a lot of modern games it's obvious the main quest is given much greater budget much greater priority because that's what everyone plays and then the side stuff they figured well nobody plays the side stuff except a couple of people so they just you know put something together that's usually really repetitive and tedious and just to artificially inflate the playtime so that's why I almost never 100% games anymore even though I used to 100% everything that's a great example that's a great example it definitely depends on the game but like why don't you think it means you have conquered that game there is no bones about you have obliterated I will never accept I will never accept that I have not conquered Kingdom Hearts 2 because the gummy ship missions are fucking terrible and I'm not going to waste my time doing them I know that they're not good I know the facts that they are not good and they are a waste of my time it does not matter if it's good or not they're not even sort of relevant to the game experience that I care about not even kind of the feeling Munchie is getting is the numbers thing it's like seeing 100% is very satisfying and I would agree but I would also say that I guess I'm just able to go away from a game where the number is not 100% just because I've had a lot of experiences where 100% is boring and overall is just bad it's just worse than trying we're kind of making different sort of emotional arguments here like for example I'm very busy so I really don't have time to make 100 argument like 100% game play on like you know Metal Gear Solid 5 or whatever so like I have a reason to want to I want to like justify my gamer cred by saying like no I've effectively done everything even though I have not some moral necessity I'm just saying like objectively there is code on that disk you have not unlocked I mean there's always that's your metric there's literally going to be like developer code that you have not experienced no matter what you do I understand where Munchie is coming from because I used to have that kind of like OCD I got 100% it sucks I was trying to do that a lot during the years to era when games started to get a lot of padding and I was constantly at war with myself I was like I really want 100% this game but I hate playing it you know yeah yeah it's such a conundrum so that's how I got with Reciteer and eventually it beat me yeah I played Final Fantasy 7 for a GRPGA video that I did and to the end of the game and I beat Sephiroth and the final boss and all that stuff I stopped the meteor and then there was like post game content where you could go fight the big under like the what were they called Ruby and Emerald Weapons yeah the weapons and I was like I tried fighting Emerald Weapon and it was too hard and I was like well it looks like I have to grind well I beat the game I'm done and I didn't I didn't feel the need to complete it beyond what I did and I know a lot of people were like what how could you not do all that and it's like the same with Kingdom Hearts 1 I never tried doing like I never tried getting to Sephiroth to fight him in Kingdom Hearts 1 sorry it's alright one because I heard that it was like really tough and I was like well I beat the game I'm done I'm good with that I feel like it's more satisfying to me and I don't feel like it invalidates my completing of the game oh well you didn't play exactly everything therefore your opinion isn't valid because I played enough of it I played at least the whole game I played to the last boss I feel like that's enough yeah I mean that's that's kind of what I think the way to look at it is if if you enjoy doing the side stuff and you enjoy 100 100% in it then you should do it but if you don't enjoy it then just don't this is kind of where I'm coming from with this I feel like the special response here is that it's like Munchie is making an argument that someone who has like mastered the gummy ship in addition to like all the base gameplay of like Kingdom Hearts 2 for example would have like more more authority over Kingdom Hearts I literally have just said that is not a moral necessity I think I get it I think it's like Munchie was saying in the back of your head you know that you haven't experienced the game entirely but the way I see it is that there are so many games that I haven't gotten around to and I feel like I should sometimes but I've just sort of it's the same sort of feeling like I can let that go like maybe I'll never get around to that game maybe I'll never get around to that movie I don't need to experience them all and I don't need to experience everything to 100% completion as long as I get the gist and I can talk about it with people to me I just feel like it's futile sometimes, yeah, futile there's just some games that it's almost impossible to 100% unless you give up your entire life and just play it here's a question what about a game like Disgaea where there is literally infinite content like at what point have you that's basically what I'm talking about I tried to 100% that back oh yeah it can't be done what I'm saying what I'm saying it's not like controversial or I'm not saying that it is good or bad to experience 100% of the game and I'm not saying that you have to get 100% to be in a 4 or talk about it I'm just saying the fact that you have not experienced 100% of the game if you have not completed 100% I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing the fact what I mean that is true but is there any consequence of this or are you just saying it is no it doesn't feel really beating the game okay here's what I'm willing to concede I am definitely not an absolute authority on the Kingdom Hearts 2 gummi ship missions I am absolutely not because I have not beaten them but I am an absolute authority on Kingdom Hearts 2 mainstay combat story all that shit I will concede that but that's it this is not a fucking war treaty this is not you won't have to concede authority on certain issues I just like seeing numbers go up that's all I want to do I just want to see numbers go up well fair enough you should really enjoy the skyer then yeah except it has no end to it there's so many big numbers in that game I could not get into the whole infinite procedural content thing the problem with that is that there is no end goal you have nothing to shoot for it's yeah it really was a problem for me and it's weird because I really like a lot of procedurally generated games like roguelikes and stuff but those again those have an end goal those have a win state this guy basically does not with this guy it's like well I already beat the game and now I can just do all this random extra stuff forever but to what end for me that is completely this guy this might surprise and baffle and horrify some people and this is in no way a discouragement of quality of Kirby 64 but I will and I do not regret any of the moments I spent with that game at all in my experience it was the pinnacle moment of my life and it was great but I will say there were certain shards where I just would fucking rather piss on my cat than play it that one fucking level where you have to get the end of my ability and carry it through until the end of the level and the end of my ability fucking sucks and you cannot hit shit with it and reverse and then fucking parry and parkour around Bronto Burt's and Wilde's to get to where you need to fucking go with this shit ability you cannot use I remember that actually it was the worst moment of my life but when I beat it I felt so good so I feel like the slog and the turmoil they go through for some of the shards and 100% it's worth it if I like the base game which I love Kirby 64 I'm happy to concede I'm happy to concede I'm definitely on your side when it comes to like I don't know I do go for 100% completion on a lot of stuff and would absolutely look down on the people who have not done it I just want to kind of judge it on a case by case basis like for example getting all the moons in Mario Odyssey is an absolute waste of time do not do it you will regret it it is not worth doing because some of them are just not fun and it is in no way an exercise of skill or like what you get for doing some of that is like just like you have to like go talk to one character wearing a certain outfit and like that does not give you anything like yes you have to buy the outfit so you get like a little bit more experience with it but like you already get a moon for just like buying every outfit in the game like to me that's like a goal that makes sense it's like it's large big goal you should get like some grand prize for doing that but the weird way that that game has made the prize for literally every accomplishment a moon totally cheapens and devalues the moons themselves did you see the Joseph Anderson video about it? of course I'm with him on a lot of that stuff yeah he had the same complaints about everything gives you a moon I'm never going to play that game but I watched that video like three times sunshine is better because sunshine is the best 3D Mario literally objective fact sunshine is the fucking best I would like to close this out but I think reciting the story that I've said before but it's relevant to this and it's incredible and I am a god bow fucking down right now I was going on a road trip I knew that I'd be in the car and I couldn't do anything so I brought my DS along but I didn't have any games for you know reasons I went to GameStop and I bought Kirby Superstar Ultra for the road trip and on that road trap that rat trap going from my location which is like 7 hours away or something and coming back I completed Kirby 64 or Kirby Ultra 100% 3 times on all save files and then I did that I brought it back to the GameStop and I got my money back so I in one day I completed all the files 100% and I turned it and got my fucking money back I used it like a fucking whore and I got my money back see okay that's the thing it is important okay and this is the thing some games absolutely use the 100% completion system as a way to make sure that the players experience all the content that is worth doing some of them definitely do it that way for example I would argue that like Castlevanias do it that way where like the RPG ones like for example getting all the souls in Aria of Sorrow I think is absolutely worth doing a lot of them are a grind and are really annoying but you get to experience meaningful new aspects of that game when you push yourself to get like fully I think that the actual percentages it might be like 210% is what you get when you actually have done literally everything in that game or something like that like when the game does it that way an example for me and I think a positive example for me is actually Super Mario World because there's a lot of hidden levels in that game but all the hidden levels are just as good as the main levels so if you 100% that game you will truly experience everything and like what if Super Mario World had a mechanic where you have to like go collect seeds and then you come back and you plant them in pots and then you have to like come back to the level after like before IRL hours have passed I think I know what you're talking about those kind of mechanics are not fun most of the time sometimes they can be, sometimes they can be but again I just want to judge it on a case by case basis gummy ships, terrible don't care about them, waste of time all this is coming from a guy who has not played single player games at all for like legitimately like I've never played a single player game seriously in a really fucking long time like a year, I don't play multiple player games in a single player games master race I love those Fair enough, okay well you know what I think it's all the questions they would like to say you're serious gambit here okay well the thing is this isn't actually like that serious of a thing so I felt uncomfortable saying it before because it's not actually like a major issue or anything I just want to slip it in but nonetheless so here's the thing guys so everyone's been commenting on like when's Jesse coming back where's Jesse etc etc since the whole I understand where you're coming from like why isn't Jesse back but here's what you got to understand everybody Jesse was under no impetus to actually return to the show after after anything it was just if he then chose to it was a separate issue so right now Jesse doesn't want to come back on the show he's doing his own stuff do not expect him back he may come back someday or he may not it is up to him and do not count on it do not have expectations so everybody commenting where's Jesse this is your answer he's not coming back anytime soon he has made that explicitly clear he is going his own way the proud MGTOW that he is and don't go bother him there's no bad blood here there is literally no bad blood we have been having more fun conversations with Jesse than at any time in the last like six months he's still our friend he is a friend he's in our chat we talked to him like there is literally no problem here other than Jesse just isn't interested in being on the show so there's no conspiracy you can go ask the guy on twitter but please don't bother him like this is just how it is he just doesn't want to and we bear him no will will as a result so you know chill out everybody you can stop asking all the questions over and over and over again because this is the answer he's just not interested right now to be fair it is our fault for not coming on earlier but where's Jesse Commons can please cease you can stop if people keep asking then just link them this part right now and then that'll be the answer this is the official PCP statement just so nobody thinks just so nobody thinks that he's like not invited for whatever reason it's not like that we continue to have an open invitation anytime he wants to come back and in no way is this an attempt to like guilt him in any way he chooses not to come back that's perfectly fine sometimes people are busy who are regulars and just don't want to be on the episode because they're doing other stuff I consider it like that there's nothing to be worried about guys just maybe we'll be back I know a lot of people want to see him on but unfortunately it's his decision and please respect it and again you can stop with the questions like we got it this has been a great episode thank you so much Mr. Tavern for being on it's been a real treat I was delighted to be on here thank you I'm so glad we finally got a chance to talk we've been kind of admiring your work from afar for a long time and man I hope maybe we can twist your arm to make some more content on that YouTube sometime because man do I miss it all I can say is that if there was more I'd watch it that's you know I do intend on making more so sweet everyone check out his channel in the description if he subscribed to him he deserves more subs he's a great guy gamers tavern show and here's the last question for you what would you recommend your own content that you think people should watch what would be your content of choice oh you mean me yeah like would you recommend like people watch your rocket night or your Sonic or if people were going to get into your channel what do you think would be a good place to start my opinion which I might not be the same as people who watch me I think my best stuff is the most recent stuff the Sonic 3 and Knuckles playthrough that's one of that let's link that in the description that's the point when I started to know what I was doing before then I was just kind of I don't know man those rocket night adventures are pretty legendary I love them all they've all got a slightly different like tone to them but they're all they're all great and I'll just put them on I'll just put them on like the full playlist and just go through the whole series and I don't want to underplay when I get the fancy, when I get the wild hair we have really loved your content especially Jesse Gibb and Ben have been like your champions out here talking about how great you are and loving your stuff I can't overstate just how great I've gotten out of it and how I think the other people would too if they knew about it and Gibb I want to prompt you what do you have to say about this man and his catalog of work um it's it's just really good it's a type of comedy video that I've never seen I don't see people making really dry pun laden videos of just there's no ego there here I am talking about this thing and oh there's funny and this is what you do with this boss and here's a pun it's very unique like I haven't seen that before and I was really happy when I found it it's like if hippo's best pun tweets were read by your tax attorney excellent that's one way to put it well guys what a lovely episode this has been thanks again Gamers Tavern for joining us maybe we'll have you back sometime soon again I would sure love to talk to you again alright thanks for having me anytime dude anytime we're gonna be trying to be more guests let us know if you like having guest guys cause we're really looking to mix it up and we've got a couple people in mind we're fucking free spirits we don't need that shit but do it if you want indeed remember everybody follow us at tbcrastinators questions on saturdays hashtag askpcp for those join to the discord at patreon.com slash the procrastinators $1 to get into the patreon launch $5 for those sweet bonus episodes Gamergate vs. Drumpf you want to get in on that and the whole gang of course and we will see you soon thanks for joining everybody bye bye salutations