 In the morning, well, every Friday we do have a guest presenter in the studio and this week we have Mr. Muyangua Muyangua who is the director general of NAPSA. Now, Mr. Muyangua, this week must have been very, very exciting and probably challenging for one for NAPSA, following President Hichilamas signing into law the National Patients Scheme Amendment Bill of 2023, which sought to amend the 1996 NAPSA Act. The new law allows for partial withdrawal of patients. How would you describe week one for you as NAPSA? I think it has been a very empowering week economically for our members and I think this I'll take it back from December. I think most people don't realize we have actually enacted two huge reform bills since December. On the 6th of December, the president signed on to the ZNPF and immediately the following day we started the processes, we're ready. On the 16th, he signed the one on the partial withdrawal and we're ready to go with our systems because we had been preparing for that for a long time. So really it has been a very empowering period for our members and exciting too in that we've seen something that people had been waiting for actually come to be implemented. I think now they'll stop saying give us a way. And week one for this 20% partial withdrawal, how has it been? It's been I think quite interesting, we're learning a lot of lessons that we didn't expect those numbers to turn up at our offices because the plan was that we're going to do most of that online. But definitely people have had challenges here and there and the numbers have been coming through to our offices country-wide but we are up to the task. We have a very committed and vibrant young guys and girls at NAPSA who are up to the task and they have been eating into those queues like you would not expect. We have the queues in the morning like at 6, 6.26 today there was the marquee that we have put up outside the headquarters was full. The queue was already coming out of that but I can assure you if you went there by 9 you would have all these service points around the mall and around the offices including our own car park it's now a service point and everyone is attending to everyone. We've taken in all the stuff that are available to just make sure we ride this wave because we know once people get through this process the next process they don't need to come to us they have no option they will not be able to come to us okay because all they need to do is press a button and say I've claimed and that's it okay so can you confirm that payouts have started yes 1.3 million paid as of yesterday 1.3 million yes that's that's a good start yes it is what does that translate to the 1.3 million how many members have been paid only 27 as in 27 people yes 27 people got 1.3 million okay you see by the time we are getting to a hundred people there the values that we'll be talking about but we're ready we're projecting that we'll get to about 9 10 11 billion but we're ready for that if you look at the response that you've gotten the number that of the number of payouts that you've had in week one are you moving at the pace that you want to be at or is it a bit slow on your end that is on our end I think the first process that we we design the process in such a manner that we don't want you to come back and say I'm not the one that got my money okay so that's a process you see creating the cues of actually validating who you are so you have to we don't use we use a multiple point verification process which goes to the banks it goes to the MNOs and our database and when you pass all those three we positive that you that's when you go to the process the next stage of of actual claiming so some of the issues you're seeing people coming up on the cues they're coming up with maybe queries of the names as held at the MNOs and held at the bank and held in our database are not the same but the NRC could be the same yeah so we're trying to align all those and make sure it's actually the same person we're talking about others are coming in to find out why their gaps on their on their contributions which is a very big a very big development cause before this no one was paying attention to their naps account yeah I'm sure all of you trust I wasn't paying your bank account yeah you would monitor what is happening every day no one would monitor what is happening on their on their naps account and yet it is a savings account you should know how much money you have all the time imagine the process where every month your employer detects a certain amount of money and you don't care where it goes now people are caring where it went and they're looking for it and they're getting it but why do you think that was the case before the reluctance they I think it's because of the way people are looking at NAPSA contributions I think the general feeling you get is that people think it's a tax they don't look at it as a savings so we need to transform that perception and to get people to understand that this is actually a savings account but do you feel as do you equally feel as NAPSA you've done enough in that area in terms of sensitization I think partly we took on we tried to internalize a lot of that and say it's a statutory obligation therefore it's fine we should have done a little bit more going out and saying look actually just as much as you have an app's account you have an app's account can you check what you say if you see now what what we've been doing is sending SMS to you every time you get credit even every time it doesn't get credited you get an SMS and then the statement that is just to ignite the interest in the people to check on what is happening on an app's account okay some of our listeners have you know reached out with some complaints of glitches on the system and very frustrating you know a login process or procedure what are some of the common issues your office has you know encountered since this process commenced I think one of the issues is just people navigating the process that has been quite a challenge for some people we are all our levels of being techie savvy are different so some people it might be lower others much higher but then on the lower end that's where you find they need to be to for handholding through the process and that's what our staff are doing some of it yes there could be a glitch here and there depending on the workload or the or the Lord on the system at a particular time it just slows down the process but then it picks up again and we're able to process but you you'll be you'll be happy to know that I think on the first day we had almost half of the number of people that turned up in person the other half was online they managed to do their own on-boarding without assistance from NAPSA okay now let's go back to the to the law in simpler terms who is eligible to withdraw partially and what happens at retirement age to those that partially withdrew and those that may opt out what are the key features of the law let's take a deeper look at so there are two main key features of the law one is in terms of qualifying one is a fact that you should only have 60 contributions on the account 60 contributions is equivalent five years off of contributing to NAPSA that entitles you to a 20 percent partial withdrawal or if you don't have the 60 contributions it should be 45 and above then you are able to access the 20 percent now in terms of what happens to those who access to maintain fairness and equity remember this is a NAPSA the scheme that we run is what is called a defined benefit it's a solidarity scheme it's not a defined contribution where it's one one man for each man for himself and NAPSA for all this one is a solidarity contribution so it's like all resources are put together and you pay from there that's why you find that under NAPSA you can contribute 50,000 the whole of your life you can get five million the whole of your life more than you contributed even if we factor out the issue of the interest what people are calling interest that payout is huge that's why the system is able to do that now if you withdraw and the other does not withdraw basically you are saying you cannot be treated the same you have accessed part of your 100 percent the other person needs to have to have to access the 400 percent so you only access the 80 percent that remained okay yeah at retirement that is okay for other benefits as well so all the other benefits are going to be 80 percent for anybody that opts to withdraw 20 percent now yes okay and I like the fact that you said opts because it's not mandatory you make a choice all right we've also received inquiries on you know how the interest is accrued or calculated without getting very mathematical what variables are you know taken into account when arriving at the interest to be paid on the amounts to be withdrawn so it's there's a study that early study that the Zambia statistics office undertakes what's called determining the national average waging in simple terms the wage inflation so you make sure that the savings are protected from the wage inflation so that's a factor by which NAPSA grows your contributions to make sure that you maintain that the purchasing power if you may put it that way all through your life so that's it's it's people don't know how much that value actually comes to but some people should not be surprised when they look at their statement a 20 percent contribution say 61 the payout you are getting is hundred and 21 because of that very factor we're talking about the uplifting to protect the value using what we call the national average earnings so it's quite significant I think it's one of the best paying savings account you ever have all right now some quarters fail you know you as DG rushed in to announcing that you know people could actually start getting their money 24 hours after the law was passed would you say perhaps the authority wasn't technically ready to absorb all the requests that were coming in and maybe you should have waited a bit a bit longer after the assenting of the law how do you respond to that those that fail this whole thing has not so we have no time for eating that's that's not our DNA DNA is to get things done when they are we knew all this time that the law was coming okay what people don't realize is we've been working behind the scenes developing that system from last year as the law was going through the channels of approval we're also developing a system to take care of the members so look at what happened on the Zambia national profit and fund the president signs the law today the following day we started the process that's exactly what happened was we were ready the glitches yes but if people listen to what I said I said the process of claiming starts now and the process is first of all you have to validate who you are that validation is actually the the lengthy the lengthy of the two processes because the payment once you have validated it's a click of a button you get your money then your bank account or in a mobile money account so that process yes people might say we I don't feel we rushed we have first glitches understood agreed but there was no need for us to say we wait what would we have been waiting for cause we were ready you were ready for the numbers we were ready the numbers shocked us okay because we didn't expect all of them to come through to the office and also a few issues we did on the system that we realize was maybe asking too much and we had to relax so that people can actually be on the system and be able to serve themselves so it is what would have been worse out loud want to ask those who think we rushed the president signs today and you start telling people wait till next week I wouldn't have been sitting here they would have lynched me that's just not the way we operate when you cannot there was no need for us to look surprised because we knew we were part of the process of moving the bill not really surprised obviously the concern is from you being prepared we are because we just paid because of the numbers the numbers is a factor that you could not predict even the genius is that are talking about being prepared I'd like them to tell us how just ask them how many people I think they end up they wouldn't have known that no one would have known that and that's because there is something maybe this partial destroy is going to to review to people as to where things are you didn't expect this because this was very popular when President Hagan actually proposed it when he was in opposition yes it was very very popular so you should have expected at least so popular huge 10 out of people coming to withdraw well they're not coming to withdraw they're coming to verify or to verify some of them don't qualify some of them don't qualify but they're interested in knowing because they're counting down to 60 remember you just need to meet 60 so rather when they hit 60 they don't need to come back to but you can't turn them away so we have to process them and get them ready for when they are 60 hits they get paid others are already hit 60 they'll get paid so that's just a process we can't say if you are five five contributions away don't come to the office in the scheme of things those people are not planned they are not eligible so they do not get any any partial for now but we can't turn them away so we have to treat and handle the whole clientele the whole membership but I think we've responded well a few people maybe were surprised to see what was on the account but they're working on them together with our staff whom I must say you need you need the people who are talking needs to come and see what those young guys are doing okay let's get you know broader here with our discussion for planning's perspective from an economic benefit analysis what does a 11 billion estimated total value of the payout do to our economy like ours imagine 11 billion injected into an economy whatever size 11 billion is a lot of money the stimulation of activity economic activity is you cannot even predict what is going to happen but what we know is that liquidity is going to spare a lot of economic activity and that's what we need so in terms of the impact imagine how many people will be able to say I'm going to build up my my small business where I'm sorry where I'm running this and that or someone says I'm actually going to invest this in government boards which is what I'm hearing from from people we have live test months of people coming here and say when I get my money I'm putting it in a in a government bond or I'm actually paying off making a down payment on my plot or I'm actually going to buy more animals so you can imagine what that if you are the seller of animals suddenly you have cash because someone has bought your animals if you are the one selling the plot suddenly you have cash because knapsack given some money 20% and was able to pay you the balance on you on the sale the transaction that has been hanging for a time so in terms of impact the economic impact is broad and wide and that's what we are expecting and that's what they were looking for with that with that kind of reform remember the issue behind this is access to money yeah yeah so that's a cheaper way of providing the money than waiting most of those people not afford to go to the bank and get get alone or get an overdraft yeah so what do you have to say to those that were you know trying to shoot this down obviously you you heard a lot I have a whole list not to mention names but what do you have to say I mean sentiments like this money will just be wasted you know these people that you want to give this money we're going to have a crop of you know very poor old people it's not a good idea what do you have to say I don't know well posing I don't know which country they live in fly over Lusaka and ask yourself who built those houses hmm those are the same people are saying they're responsible how many people do you know who have two two two two two lines of revenues the salary and something else how many plenty those are some people are calling it responsible now there are people who don't want to take action because the fear the fear of the unknown we are not going to be designing policy on the basis that one percent of the people two percent are going to be supply the money and then you deny the ninety eight percent to spare the economic activity in the country that's not how police design works so in all that I'll tell them is let's look for example bring the people we are we are we are looking for the people what some people have told us what they're doing we have videos of people showing us that last time I got ZNPF I actually bought so many goats now I'm going to get the partial and I'm going to increase the number of goats I own that's what we're talking about first of all there was a complaint that the money is too little 20 why not 50 that's that's objective little compare to what if we're fat guy fat cow somewhere and you're ending yourself millions and the other guy has one thousand twenty percent of one thousand the value attached to that is the same so you can't tell me that a guy who is asking for five thousand it's too little it's too little for you but it's it's not little for them because that five thousand is maybe they are yearly income or even maybe one or ten percent of the early income if you ask CCEC the amount of money that people are applying for let's let's let's go back to Village Banking I meant you heard of people looking for five thousand on Village Banking so why is it different money is money okay we're gonna go to the headlines I've got another follow-up question on that I had a conversation yesterday on the hot seat with CTPD country executive director and Mr. Isaac my people and he said he would have loved or his proposition is that maybe as the fund which you should have been loaning the money to the owners of this money maybe 10% and have them pay back in six months and still allow them to continue accessing this cheaper fund and that would have you know brought up some sort of stiffer competition for the banks that have these high lending rates but we'll hear your response after the news headlines to that proposition thank you give it a look right here we have