 Everybody will remember where they were when LeBron James passed Michael, Jeffrey, Jordan. I've been a long time LeBron is better than Kobe guy. I'm now flipping. Everything he has done off the court over the last nine to twelve months has been setting up for New York. Chris Broussard here and welcome to the brand new Hoops on Fox podcast. This podcast will give you your daily dose of all things NBA from Fox Sports, including the best content from Skip and Shannon, Nick Wright, plus special guest, fresh NBA content from myself, post game interviews from NBA stars around the league, and much, much more. Up first, Skip and Shannon look at what passing Michael Jordan's milestone means for LeBron James's legacy. Okay Shannon, what was your takeaway from last night? All of what he says, Kel Baila. Be looked to be revered like MJ, check. Shoot a fade away like MJ, check. Now he don't stick his tongue out on dunks like MJ. But everything else, check, check, check. For me, Skip, I will remember the last night that LeBron James passed Michael, Jordan, his idol, and a lot of current players and a lot of players and a lot of people's idol as the fourth all time leading scorer in NBA history. And I think 10 years from now, 15, 20 years from now, no one will remember that the nuggets crushed the Lakers in this ball game. But everybody will remember where they were when LeBron James passed Michael, Jeffrey, Jordan as the fourth leading scorer. But unfortunately he doesn't stop there. We're going to talk about this a little later. He's on that rise, Skip. Yeah, he headed on up. Oh, you know who? Kobe's neck. You leave, you know who in the D-U-S-T. Like MJ in the D-U-S-T, that's what you're saying? Kick it up in his face. Kick it up in his face. Moving on. Don't buy this business, Skip, Baila. Look, it just goes to show you just how consistently great this young man has been since he's arrived in the NBA. 11 consecutive first team all NBA, 12 overall, until he's a 27.1 career average scorer. Now he's top five in scoring, top 10 in assists. And in a couple of years he's going to be top five in assists. Skip, look, he's been rewarded. He's been very fortunate. Proud of this year. He had really never suffered a significant injury that forced him to miss a significant amount of time. But the game itself, it shows, Skip. It looked like there are a bunch of guys, three of the guys that played heavy minutes last night were in the G-League, the better part of this year. And that's what LeBron tried to beat the Nuggets were, and they played as well as they could. But when you get crushed, the Nuggets are a very good rebounding team, especially on the offensive end. They beat the Lakers overall in rebounding by 14. Cash demand, 18 offensive rebounds, 24 second chance points. And Skip, when you do that, and even as bad as the Lakers played with the underman unit that they had, Skip, late in the fourth, early in the fourth quarter, they had a chance to tie the ball game. LeBron had Josh Hart on a wide open, you know, boom, it's a tie ball game. He misses that. They go down, Gary Harris, boom, three. Now instead of being tied, they're down five. And then Gary Harris comes right back down again, boom, three. And so what should have been a tie ball game all of a sudden is an eight-point game, time out, and the Nuggets never look back. And this is where we are. This has been a very, very disappointing season for everybody involved with the Lakers. LeBron never, ever imagined this season would turn out the way it has, but this is what it is. But there have been some historical milestones that LeBron James has been able to accomplish. And maybe that's the consolation prize for this season. But this season has been a disaster, but LeBron James has been very good. I'm not going to say great because there are some times that I think he could have affected the outcome or impacted the game a lot better than what he did. But he got no complaints from me from what I saw. I am shocked by that assessment of last night by LeShannon Sharpe. That was humble. That was shockingly objective. That had perspective to it. That had a certain grace to it. As opposed to what I saw from your man on the court last night, because I will be the first to admit, by the way, Jenny, do you remember my score prediction? I predicted 115 to 95. Sue me, I missed it by four points because it was 115 to 99. I wasn't going to bring it up. Anyway, thank you. Now, back to your man. Honestly, from my heart, I tried to get into last night because I do believe there's a side of LeBron who obviously idolized Mike and he looked up to Mike and he was inspired to do this and that and all the things that you just listed by Mike. So I'm trying to get into it and I'm trying to go with the flow of the night because there was a tinge of sadness to it because of what has happened to the Lakers, obviously. But still it is an achievement to pass Michael Jeffrey Jordan on the scoring list. And then I saw your man's shoes. And then I read what he had, I think handwritten unless he had somebody write it for him. He write his own stuff. He probably does. He writes left-handed, which is a big part of his game. I know he's ambidextrous, which is a big part of his game. And by the way, I tried to get into the whole mood of he's more of a past first basketball player, which I've always, I always tell you, he's still the best point guard in basketball and he's still the best passer in basketball. He's also still the greatest attacker of the basket I have ever seen at six foot nine inch 200 and whatever he weighs, 270, 280 maybe. No! 270, let's give him 270. Okay. Ambidextrous at the hoop. He can score it either way and I thought it was fitting that he score the two points with his left hand. And one. It was and one and it was even more fitting that he actually capped off the end one by making the free throw because I hate to point out that he missed his first four before he passed Jordan. Am I right? It is. How can you miss the first four free throws? My dogs would jump and skip. I was correct. Bag it LeBron. Y'all looking at me like, Dad, what's wrong with you? LeBrick. They're worried about you? And the thing, they're not even closed. LeBrick. Yeah. LeBrick. They're not closed. LeBrick. LeBrick. Since he came back from injury, he's shooting 61% from the free throw line. I don't know what happened. He's got the demons going. He does. Okay. It's as simple as that. Took a little off. So now we're back to the shoes. And he hand wrote with his left hand in some kind of like magic marker or something. I don't know. You know he used a sharpie. Sharpie, okay. Sharp. Magic marker. I don't know what it was. What, are we in grade school? Yeah. In grade. Well, he's talking about growing up. You know, he idolized. He might have found a magic marker for all I know. Okay. And what did he do on the side of his shoes? Thank you, MJ 23. If he had just left it at that, I would have been so good with it because that would have been such an inspiring message of the night. Okay, what did he do? But what did he do at the end of that? He grew a crown. He got a crown. And so suddenly the message changes from thank you to thank you for inspiring me to be greater than you, to be the king. Crown him. Right? Crown him. Said LeBron with that message on the side of his shoes. Put the crown on. God, he didn't care. We don't need the crown. Is he not the king? So the whole night was spent looking up to Jordan while looking down on him. That's how it came across to me. No, it didn't. The whole night was one long humble brag. That's what your man does. It's incredible humble bragging because there is no, you just provided some perspective, some big picture. And the big picture of this, the perspective I wanted to hear, a little bit of humility from LeBron, it did take 118 more games than Michael Jordan plays to pass him. Well, 118, that's a lot of games, man. Okay, but still, you still won't mention LeBron James is still 1240 shots behind him. And you still won't mention that Michael played in an era in which they did not emphasize even taking three-point shots, not let alone making them. They just didn't care about it. No. It was, it was almost like a taboo shot first came in like a joke, a gimmick, a clown shot. Like you don't do that. If the greater you are, the less you're going to shoot that shot. So now LeBron James, he made two quick, pretty quick last night. He missed his free throws, but he made those two threes and I'm like, oh, here he comes. And he has now scored 3,399 more points from the three-point line than Michael did in his career. Think of that, that's 3,400 more points because he's attempted 3,204 more threes than Michael attempted. Well, that's a shocking advantage to LeBron to catch and pass him. But even with that, even with the 3,400 more points and the 2,000 more threes, he's still 1240 shots behind him. Okay. But again, Michael was a very good passer. Let's not discount that. LeBron is 2,000 assists clear. Okay. But think about 118 games. That's a lot of games. Okay. I think he averaged a little under six assists a game. Okay. So remember, Michael was an 84% free throw shooter and LeBron is still teetering, but his career average still hovers right at 74. So 10% more free throws. If you do that over time, it's a staggering number and more points that you can make in the free throw line. Correct. I still say LeBron has actually neglected the free throw line because a lot of times he was afraid to go in there and do what was going to happen, which is have to march to the free throw line and shoot more free throws. Right. So to me, I needed to hear some of that perspective last time. What perspective? Well, I just told you. Oh, so you want him to say, you know what? I passed Michael my idol, my hero. I looked up to, he gave me inspiration. But guys, I want y'all to know I did play 117 more games. Guys, I did take 2000 more threes in him. Really? That's what you want him to say? Yeah. Perspective. Just say, look, I know that it took me a while to do it, but this was more of a longevity achievement for LeBron. This was more of, I took better care of myself than Michael did. Now I'm always going to give you that because Michael did not take great care of himself near the end, even though he worked out hard. He hit the cigars, you know, all the rest. And I think LeBron starting to go down that path a little bit too much now. If he really wants to pass Karim, we're going to talk about that. He's going to pass him. I don't want to. He's going to pass him. All right. But obviously LeBron has focused harder on his fitness than even Michael did with the great Tim Grover. They used to have their breakfast club. Right. I'm going back to 98 during the finals, you know, during that run. Right. He was in peak weight room sort of shape. And, and yet LeBron has managed to stay a little healthier, a little longer. I know he just had the 18 game injury that he just suffered. But here's the thing to skip. No, I've never, and I've seen, I've been alive to see a lot of records passed. I have yet to hear the guy when he passes. I wasn't alive when Roger Maris passed Bay Ruth. And I never, I don't remember hearing in any of his things like I'm so happy to break this record that Babe only played 154 games and I played 162. Yeah. He didn't have to because the New York media and the national media was all over him for daring to do that. Just like you. And Roger Maris' hair was falling out while he was trying to pass. And just like you keep constantly reminding everyone LeBron did play 117 more games. Somebody's got to be objective. But what about those shots, even though with 2000 more three attempts LeBron James is still 1240 field goal attempts. Oh, three tools. He's still 1240 behind him. I just want to know why. Why? How can LeBron get to pass him when he's taken fewer shots in 117 more games? Well, he was much more of a pass first basketball player. Magic Johnson was passed first. He didn't pass Michael. Oscar Robinson was passed first. Isaiah Thomas, John Stockton, Jason Kidd. They not passing Michael. Maybe LeBron would have won more championships if he would, as you keep saying here lately, have gone hardened more often. Am I right about that? Maybe. Maybe he did not. Maybe he was unselfish to a fault. Maybe he shrank from that responsibility. Next, hear from LeBron himself after he passed his childhood idols NBA points total. Just ran into championships for a kid from Akron, Ohio that needed inspiration and needed some type of positive influence. MJ was that guy for me. I watched him from afar. Wanted to be like MJ. Wanted to shoot fadeaways like MJ. Wanted to stick my tongue out on jumps like MJ. So that's why it's so crazy to me right now that, you know, that's why it's so crazy to me just seeing, you know, where I'm at in the scoring of all-time greats in this game of basketball because I've never been about scoring. I wanted kids to look up to me at some point like MJ and it's just, it's crazy to be honest. I don't, it's beyond crazy. I didn't know how it was going to happen. I figured I can go out there and get 13 points at some point. But I didn't know how it was going to happen. A couple of teammates asked me if I had 12 points or whatever the case may be, 11 points. How would I like it to be? I said either fadeaway in the post or off the two feet, lean in, tongue out, dunk on the break. It was very emotional. Very emotional. A lot of things that was going on inside me at that point in time. I wanted to look up at the scoreboard to kind of see what was going on up there. But at the same time, I didn't want to show what was going on behind the tile. So, and we all wanted to be MJ. We all wanted to be MJ, every last one of us. And it's crazy, like my high school, my high school best friends, they text me and they just like, they can't believe it. I can't believe it because we just remember, like, walking up and down, you know, the hacker streets with a basketball, just, you know, singing, I want to be, I want to be like Mike. It's crazy. Like, when you're an inner city kid, like myself and my guys growing up, you're just looking for anything, any lightening that can inspire you because you're just always put up against the numbers of fail, you know, the percentages of guys like myself, single parent in the household, only child underprivileged, making it out is, it's not high at all. And, you know, MJ had a lot to do with me making it out along with my mother, along with the city itself, along with the bully coaches I had. But Mike had no idea what he was doing for a kid that was growing up in a 45 minutes flight away from Chicago when he was putting it aboard. Now, Whitlock explains to Marcellus and the SFY crew why LeBron should forget about Jordan and start worrying about Kobe in the debate of all-time greats. Has the disaster this season moved LeBron out of the Jordan conversation and into a debate about whether or not he's better than Kobe and I've been a long time LeBron is better than Kobe guy. I'm now flipping. Kobe, the competitive nature of Kobe, the mamba mentality that's being talked about and talked about and talked about, I'm jumping ship to Kobe. You said that with a straight face. You just burned 16 years of tape just because you saw somebody give a little more effort at the end of the day. It's amazing in your glory years which is supposed to be the gravy years that we now going to judge you on the meat and potatoes which is the film that said that LeBron is definitively better than Kobe Bryant. He passed Kobe Bryant. You can't go backwards. This is supposed to help you not hurt you these years of LeBron's career. It's just safe for anybody to look at effort which obviously translates to fan. It's competition, Marcel. It is competition but it's also achievement. He's jogging to a 27, 9, and 8. Kobe wasn't doing that in year 16 and Kobe was giving full effort. I'll leave you with this. Fans will go crazy like you when somebody will run a 9 round and die for it. The fans are like, oh man, he's going to be nice this year. Watch that dude. Watch for him. And the coach will say, yeah, if he was a little faster he wouldn't have to die for it. Think about that. LeBron maybe looking like he jogging. You may be misinterpreting all of LeBron's effort as just too casual but in reality he's still putting up a achieving number. Oh, that's shoving him to guard people. But go ahead. One play, bro. One play, bro. At this point, he wasn't past Kobe to me just because of that reason. Yes, if he had the mama mentality he would be the best ever. Close to, I got Kareem at the top to me. But he would be in that conversation even more but not being a competitor, not having that mama mentality not dominating when you know you can plan to the level of your competition he shouldn't be doing that. He wasn't better than Kobe before he came to LA? They're both great in their own right. Kobe is a better competitor. He's a better scorer. LeBron is a better all-around player. At the end of the day he hasn't passed Kobe in points yet. That's coming. He hasn't passed him in championships. So what I'm saying, they're both great in their own right but if I, me personally I have to go with Kobe because that's the type of guy I want on my team. He plays harder and he's great. I think it's more so on the LA level too though because now it's being accentuated here at LA because of what Kobe accomplished. Like nationally I think that conversation is as relevant as it is here in LA because now they're going back to well Kobe would have done this. Kobe would have, he never would have done this. And some of the things that Kobe didn't do right like the game we had in Phoenix were in game seven where he didn't shoot in the fourth quarter people forget about that. Because he was trying to send a message. Now this accentuates everything that Kobe did right because of what's happening with LeBron. Keep in mind, I said this before overall LeBron is a better player but I would rather guard LeBron than Mike or Kobe. Any day. Because with those two if they're not hitting the jump shot they go to mid post, they go down to the post and when they get to the free throw line they're going to make you pay. Well LeBron is some things that I think I can take away and he'll kind of phase out a little bit. Those two, they continue to come at you no matter what. But then they compare and the fans are comparing 20 years here in LA and five championships to one year. You can't do that. You can't do that. It's not a fact comparison. And look at the team he's playing with. It's not a fact comparison. But that's just the fans that whatever you've done for me lately fans they want you to. But that's why I pushed back at Whitlock. I pushed back at a fan that flips. I don't push back at somebody saying he was never better than Kobe for me. I respect that but how does he flip based on this? I'll be asking you new information. That is me for my entire life and so look when LeBron quit in Cleveland the first time playing Boston. Okay, I'm gonna give him that one. He was frustrated. When he had the Dallas series, that was tough. I'm gonna give him that. They went on one, two championships. He won one in Cleveland. Three strikes in your out. This is a hot mess. The dude's not playing defense. He's disengaged. He's not competing. Jim makes a great point. Kobe's went through some games where he wouldn't shoot and that's non-competitive. That's him throwing a tantrum. I'm gonna give him that. They're talking right now about a Mamba mentality. I heard Dwayne Wade reference it. I hear everybody now. Mamba mentality. Mamba mentality. What's the LeBron mentality? But he's never claimed to have that. He's never because he never, that's not part of his DNA. You know that. But here's the thing. What's he leaving? What's he leaving? What are we gonna be talking about? Listen, well, he transformed the game in a lot of different ways. He has transformed that game in a lot of different ways. No question. Nobody has the power. Nobody has the power that LeBron has. We've never seen LeBron. Listen, he changed training camp. He changed the way you looked at free agency. He changed everything. He changed... Let me push back. Okay, go ahead. I just heard Adam Silver do talk about this. We're not old enough to remember. But Adam Silver said, hey man, there's been this ying and yang between player and ownership throughout the history of the NBA. Will Chamberlain made Philadelphia fire their coach and make him the head coach, and then he bounced on him. Bill Russell made the Celtics, make him the head coach. Players have been having and exercising power. The NBA pushes back and takes back control. But he's not... To us in our lifetime, he's the first to have this kind of power. But there have been others who have had that power. And look, maybe that will be LeBron's legacy, the power that he accumulated. But to what good did it lead to in terms of... What? Let me finish. New information. That power, did it contribute to his overall team accomplishments? Did it help him reach the ultimate goal, the way it did, whatever power Jordan had, it led to six championships. Kobe led to five. Magic led to five. LeBron sitting here with three, and damn it, that's underachievement in my opinion. It's not underachievement, because LeBron, it wasn't all about him. It was about every player in the league. He wanted everybody to benefit. That's when he changed. He changed the whole league. Now it wasn't just about him. You sure? You sure? You can see it. You can see it. Why are guys not confident enough to come out and say, I want to play with this guy, because of LeBron? Why are guys confident enough to say, I want to work out with this guy, because of LeBron? Why are guys that can't play making money, because of LeBron? Where's their sports agency, why they're still acting? Let me check how the fans hear that. LeBron made it normal for you to give up on competing against your peers and go team up. That's not what he did. That's the signal that's been interrupted right now. Effort translates to fans. They say we gave our hard-earned money. We don't see you giving 100%. We got a problem. But the beauty of what you're saying is, is you can easily be flipped, because all LeBron needs to do is be on a winning team next year with these Lakeleers. Get a free agent. This could flip like nothing for you, for you. But for us who have seen enough of the body of work, it's cemented where you are pretty much. This is the gravy years. I just don't use that to subtract from your greatness. Here's the thing. I'm going to go back to this. There's been players that got power. Will's deal was he had an agreement with the owner of the Warriors at the time for 20% ownership that he passed away. The other owner said no. So that's why Will wanted to be traded. Karim got traded. Michael had power, but when Reinsdorf and that group said, we're done, they're done. Nobody has had the influence all around on just a team and a league like LeBron, period. When you go from changing back to back games, okay, because LeBron wants to do that and the way training camp is and free agency. Think about this. By circumventing the salary cap and saying, okay, the match deals are you stay here. You know what they did? They said, we're going to circumvent this. We're going to do two-year deals with a three-year deal or two-year out. That's how we're going to get around the match deal and get our money. That was him. Yeah. So power-wise, guys had influence. That's one thing. Power? Nobody had it like that. Like I said again, they had power. No, he didn't. He thought about it. Mike didn't have it. Mike still has more shoes than everybody. But that's a whole... That is power. And listen, if he had so much power, why that Bulls team didn't come back for another year? Because they told him no, they were still... Oh, they told him no. Up next, Brian Scalabrini joins Colin on the herd to discuss who he thinks will be the face of the NBA once the LeBron era is over. Okay, Brian Scalabrini, former Celtic and now a Celtic. Are you going to tell us? You can't tease us like that. Mike, I'm not going to... I can't throw my sources under a bus. Oh, my gosh. Hey, big things happen on this iPhone. This iPhone's an iPhone 12. It's double an iPhone 6. Because he does this. And then one day, someone's just going to swipe that thing. And then, you know, the damage is going to be... All your sources are not comparable. Get this over to... I'll get this over to you. You just don't trust me. Your screen is open. Come on, let's hear your source. Let's hear your source. Anyway, let's move on. All right. Okay. First of all, there's obviously a power struggle with the Lakers right now. Sure. You can see that, right? You go to an arena every night. You're hearing things. What did you make of last night? Now, to defend LeBron, he's brand new. What was Kobe's first year like in LA? What was Magix? What was Karim's? Nobody... This was never going to be perfect, right? Sure. You kind of jammed him into a city. He's been playing eight straight finals, but it did feel weird last night, like no teammates, the crowd. It should have been bigger, right? No question. Passing MJ should have been a big deal. Unbelievable deal. I just think when you saw LeBron get emotional, was it a motion out of regret for what he's going through right now and what being in LA and saying, did I make a mistake coming out here? Do you think he thinks that? I mean, look at the moment. You pass MJ. Can you imagine if that moment was in Cleveland? Who cares? He looks up at the fourth or fifth seed. He looks up at the scoreboard. They're not going to be getting crushed by 20. That's a totally different moment than being in LA. People are kind of iffy on you being there. You pass MJ. You're out of the playoffs. You're getting roasted by Denver. So I just think that moment for him, he probably had a sense of regret until he jumped in his car at 75 degrees outside and he's heading to shoot another show or do another business venture in Hollywood. So I think at that moment, it was a little too emotional for him because I think he has a little bit of regret for going to LA. Well, let me throw this at it. You believe you know who's going to be a Laker next season and it should be noted on the secondary market, the Enos Canners, Carmelo Anthony's don't want to be here. Sure. Paul George said no. There's a lot Kawai reportedly not interested. So there's about eight guys that are really good players, maybe seven available. You think you know who the two are? Yeah, I mean, and I'm just guessing. It's not like I have like sources like you with the phone. I just think in Philadelphia, you look at the Jimmy Butler to bias Harris situation. Are they going to come with a 190 million max contract for Jimmy Butler? I'm not sure. They might. It depends on how Philly plays out in the playoffs, but I kind of look at if it's not Philly, it's probably the Lakers. I could see them saying, you know what, we don't have anybody else. We're going to miss out on KD and Kemba Walker and why don't we go after Jimmy Butler and with the amount of money that they have left, I can see him going after the Marcus Cousins as well. Oh boy. So you act. No, but look at that roster. LeBron, Butler, Cousins, and you still have Lonzo Ball, Kuzma, Ingram. You still have those guys. So you wouldn't have to give up anything. No, that's the beauty of free agency, right? You don't have to give up assets to get those guys. So instead of giving your whole team and seven picks to try to get Anthony Davis, you can say, well, why don't we just sign these two guys Adam to LeBron. If you're telling me right now, Jimmy Butler, LeBron and Boogie Cousins, that's too much drama. This year's been too much drama. No, there's never too much drama in LA. They have a high quota for drama in LA. By the way, Boogie Cousins, they acquired Andrew Bogut for a reason. They trust Bogut with four minutes to go in a game. They don't trust Boogie Cousins. But he'll be better next year and then he'll be better as the season goes along. I mean, that's kind of how the Achilles Sings works. Speaking of drama, Mr. Celtic, your team's been a massive disappointment and the very smart and accurate Charles Barkley went on and he talked about Kyrie Irving the other day and Kyrie Irving, here's Barkley on Kyrie Your Guy Scalabrini. What do you make of that? Well, I think Charles is looking at the team and seeing how inconsistent the Celtics look and at times Kyrie looks miserable out there when they lose but I will say from being on the inside and seeing these guys, it's very... Some days, for instance, you lose to Houston and I thought, oh my gosh, our season's going down the drain and then they make this flight to Golden State and everything has changed. Now Kyrie's like super engaging with the guys and the plane is super loud and at the hotels, guys are talking, there's music being played. It was like a 180 degree turn. So you were there. Yeah, it's just like, it's amazing to me how much difference it's been the last two days. Now is it because there's less than 20 games to go? Are NBA players in general tired of the regular season? Which we're seeing that a lot more now. The Golden State Warriors the other night did not want to be out there playing. And they're the team that I think more than any team in the last five years, they're the team to me that seemed to enjoy playing more than anything. They did not seem to enjoy playing the other night. I think everyone's just waiting for the playoffs to start and whether it's Kyrie and the ups and downs of free agency and all that stuff and dealing with should I stay, should I go, going here, going there. When it's just about basketball for him and he has that pure mind and he wants to play, he's unbelievable. Go back. I don't even want you to watch the offensive end of the comeback from 3-1 against the Warriors. Just watch Kyrie on the defensive end during that. He was so engaged. It was unbelievable to watch that run from him, LeBron, all those guys and just how cohesive they were. And I think at times when the stakes are high, he does seem to raise his level. But then you have those games like Houston and you're wondering, these guys even want to be out here. But from my experience of seeing this team, they're so inconsistent game to game, quarter to quarter. And now it looks like they've turned the corner. The last two games, they've looked really engaged and looked all dialed in and locked in. But I will say the practice over the last two games before the Warriors, everyone talked about how we feel so much more connected. We had sort of a kumbaya moment and everything is going to be fine. By the way, the face of the NBA, so how old are you? 40. You're but a child. So I've been, well, I'm mid-50s. Not sure about that. I'm mid-50s. And so I've been watching the NBA since the 70s. And there's always been a face of the league. You have to be a great player. Sure. You have to have flair to either your game or your personality. And you got to win titles. Kareem was a great player, brittle personality. I say Kevin Durant, a little bit of an odd quirky personality. These are the faces I believe from the 60s on. Wilt, Dr. J, then it was Larry and Magic, Michael, Shaq and Kobe. Although Shaq was the more... Kobe was the more intense athlete. Shaq was the more engaging personality, then LeBron. And I ask you, the things that you know that you have to be a star, you've got to be great. We've got a bunch of those in the league. You've got to have flair to your game. All these guys had flair. I mean, even Wilt. Wilt was the headband, the jams. And then you've got to have a bunch of titles. Who's the face of the NBA? It doesn't have to be honest. But here's my takeaway. Didn't play high school here. Didn't play college here. That's a good thing. Well, he was obscure for two years. Didn't know who he was. It is Milwaukee. No playoff success. This is sort of dumb. But generally Madonna, Cher, Hannity, Stern, Imus. One name helps. Bird, magic, Kobe. You tried spelling Yanis? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little bit of a thing. You're telling me that he should be the face of the franchise? I don't think. Based on how good he is, but because his name is Auntie Takunpo. No, I'm not saying that's like 2%. Okay. But I'm saying, I'm not saying it's not everything. Milwaukee. No playoff success. Didn't play high school. Well, that's just now. Like LeBron is still going to control this narrative for the next two years. He's going to be the face of the NBA for two years. For two more years. Yeah, so. And then the torch will pass. So why not jump on Steph Curry? All American family. The second best player in his own team. How do you face the league? Well, he might, but he won a championship without Durant. Listen, I think you're right. That's how I feel, Steph. Sure. But it's really hard when you're perceived as, you're not the finals MVP. Sure. Your teammate is. Yeah. And the NBA has been as strong. As the face of the league is likable. Yeah. Shack and Kobe LeBron, Michael Bird, Dr. J. Wilt. There was a real relatability of flair. I got your answer. Yonah should be. He should be. But I don't know. The superstars today are weird. Right. Durant is weird. Kyrie. Westbrook. Wylennard. Westbrook. They're all sort of like a little bit odd. Yeah. So. If you, like, to me, Yonah's is not odd. He's from. So you think he's the guy? Well, I just think he's not, he's not a weird guy. No, no, no, no. He's a great kid. Yeah. And he's like, I feel like he's going to stay in Milwaukee. He's like, well, we want our superstar to be. But maybe that's us because I'm 40 or 50. And we want him to be all about basketball. Didn't grow up in the AAU culture. Has a totally different mindset. Well, he didn't come. He came into this league. I didn't know who he was until year three. Sure. So. I knew about Kobe in high school, LeBron in high school, Jordan in college, Shaq in college. Generally, I'm introduced to you before you even get. I think Zion Williamson could be it if he goes to the Knicks. If his game trend. Then you got to win. That might not happen. But it is interesting. I agree with you. I think next half decade, it's still mostly LeBron. No, that's five years. I'm just throwing it out there. Come on, Colin. Two years. Everybody's pushing Brady out the door. That's the face of the league is today. Brady, Tom Brady. Yeah, but he's still winning. Like, clearly you're watching the Lakers. I don't, it just ain't going to change. Well, if they get Jimmy bothered, cousins, different conversation. Yannis should be. Yes. And because of that, I'm sticking with Yann. Okay. I can't go on what people think about a high school one because they can't say his name. I can only go on. If I'm a father, I want to sit down and watch a game with my son. This is the guy I want you to be like. No, I'm not denying any of that. By the way, Shawshank Redemption is a great movie. It's a bad name for a movie. This is America. We like simple stuff. That's why I changed my name from the Colin Coward show to Herd. Sure. Rome. Hannity. Imus. Kalei. Share. That's why I'm saying. Joy. Yannis. Give Yannis Auntie the Coompo. Just go Yannis. Just say Yannis. I just call him Yannis. Yannis. I like Yannis. Pretty much everyone calls him Yannis in this one. All right. Yannis. That's only like. That's only. Too long. I know it sounds dumb. That's only like 2% of the argument. No playoff success. Milwaukee. Well, that's just now. They're going to be fine this year. Yeah. And I'm telling you. He's not weird. No, he's not. He's just not weird. So because he's not weird, we can, like us middle aged men can rally around the guys who aren't weird. No, I have him on the show. He's a great kid. He's great. And he's all about winning. And I, the rumors about him leaving in free agency. He just seems to love Milwaukee. All he does is work out and stays in Milwaukee. Doesn't work out with, you know, Instagram. And all this other stuff. Yannis. He's great. I just like. That's a layup to me. He's got to be the face of me. All right. Because I don't feel it's Kevin Durant. I think he's too prickly. I think he's just a little too quirky. I don't think he's as. He's weird. He's weird. Yeah. He's not. These guys are weird. Following that, Mavs assistant coach, God Sham God joins Christine Leahy to explain his unique name and famous crossover. Welcome to Fair Game. I'm Christine Leahy and we're here in Charlotte, North Carolina for the NBA All-Star Game. My guest today was a legend on the New York City basketball courts and the creator of one of the best crossover moves of all time. Now he's teaching those moves as an assistant coach for the Dallas Mavericks. God Sham God is here. How you doing? I'm good. How are you? Good. You know, I actually don't know how you got your name. God Sham God. That's my father's name. His name is God Sham God. When I was in high school, my father got locked up. So I really, in the beginning, I was like really like mad at him about certain things. So I used to, so when I got to high school, I just always put my mom's last name and my mom's last name as well. So when I got in high school, I used to write Sham God Wells, Sham God Wells. Because when I was little, you know, when you live it's hard for kids to call you God and stuff like that without getting teased. So then when I got to high school, you know, I used to Sham God Wells. And then when I got to college, they told me I had to use my birth name or change it. You know? And at that time I wasn't going to spend $500 to change my name to my mom's last name. So then, of course, everybody found out that was God Sham God. Then some people made a whole big spectacle of it. And some people thought it was me. Calling yourself God. You're so arrogant. You're going to call yourself God and stuff like that. So it's funny, but I think the way I learned how to play basketball and things like that as I got older, it became cool to people. Yeah. Yeah. And then when they see me play, they kind of think it fits. Mm-hmm. You know, because all the dribbling and stuff and things like that. So, you know, in the end it works out. Everything works out. So this, the Sham God move, that is such a huge part of your legacy. So many players are replicating it. How did you come up with it? When I was young, I used to always watch film. A basketball player is like to learn. Learn how to dribble because in the beginning I really didn't have no trainer. And then when I first started playing basketball, I used to be so embarrassed that I wasn't good in basketball. So I used to always tell people I was good, but I would never play. You know, so I was like really embarrassed. So once I did it by, I did it by mistake. And then like I said, I used to always watch film. So I saw it on film to myself. And then me and one of my best closest friends that was in college, Corey Wright, we went to the gym. After we watched the film, I'm like, oh, this probably could work. I'm like, this is good. We went to the gym and I had to practice that move like thousands of times. And then it just became a thing. So you said you weren't good at basketball, but then is that what made you good? No, what happened was up until 13, I was like okay in basketball. Okay. So when I was in junior high school, I had a coach by the name of Tiny Archibald. He's like doing the top 50 greatest basketball players. But when I first met him, I didn't know that, you know, because like I said, I wasn't into basketball when I was little. So when I went to my school, you know, I'm learning how to play and this older guy, he'd come to me and he's like, hey, you should do this. And I'm like, this is an old guy talking about basketball. No, nothing about no basketball. So then I go home and I'm watching a VHS tape, you know, back then. And it's like below the rim. And it got guards like Magic Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway. And in the middle of it, it got older people like Peter Pete Marriott, Earl Monroe, and then of course, Tiny Archibald. So I come back to school the next day and I'm like, why you didn't tell me you played in the NBA? And he's like, oh, you know, your young kids think you know everything and all this other stuff. And then he told me, he was like, if you learn how to dribble, you will always be worth something to a team. So I got kind of like obsessed personality. Like if I really liked something, I'd do it over and over and over again. So then after that day when he told me that I just practiced morning, noon, and night, just dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, dribbling. And then of course, you know, my God giving talent just kicked in. So then it all just came, it just all came together. And you know, from, whether it's Chris Paul, whether it's Russell Westbrook, you know, Dame Lele, Jamal Crawford. These are all guys that you taught how to do it? No, it was all guys that asked me about it all the time. Okay. You know, to, you know, like, you know, I grew up with Kyrie Father, stuff like that. So it's just all been a part of it. And like, you know, when I meet them, it's all like, hey man, when I was younger, I watched so much film on you dribbling and stuff like that. And then when I'm around them, I just show them like different versions of it. Finally, Chris Boussard joins Nick and CeC to break down Kevin Durant's offseason options. Why would Kevin Durant stay in Golden State? What's the case for him staying where he is? Yeah, I've made the argument on this show before that I think it'd be great for him to stay and go for a fourth straight ring. Yes. All the guys, Magic, MJ, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, all that he's compared to have never won fourth straight. Only Bill Russell. Right. And so if he had that on his resume, I mean, that'd be huge. But watching this season unfold with how difficult, you know, the struggles they're having this year, he and Dre mine going at it. The tension there is with the team. There's a reason those guys didn't win fourth straight, you know, because it's very difficult mentally, emotionally, not to mention physically. So it appears that that would be not quite unrealistic, but very difficult. If they win it this year for them to come back and do it a fourth straight year, it just might be too tough. And look, he's got two great options in my opinion, New York and the Clippers outside of Golden State. So I, as much as I'd like to see him get four straight, I don't think he would say it. Why do you think he is? I know we've talked a lot about Kyrie's levels of happiness and his inner, but I thought the other night when he was, after they got blown out by the Celtics, him, I don't want to say going at Steve Kerr, but his post game press conference juxtaposed to Steph Curry's, where Steph Curry kept the even kill. You said he's the Tim Duncan for, one of you guys said Tim Duncan for the Golden State Warriors. And Kerr, I mean Kerr predates Durant. And Kerr is incredibly popular within that locker room. And Durant just seems generally irritated with the situation. Well, I thought he had legitimate reason after the game. What he questioned was Steve Kerr talked about now we need to play, we need to be a little more mean, a little more intense before and during the season. And yeah, angry. And earlier in the season they were talking about, man, let's play with a little more joy. Let's be happy. So that was the message point. That's Kerr's mantra really was the joy and then he contradicted it. Yeah, but now because we lose this game, don't go behind the team, because he should have told the team that after the game, before he told the media that. Like you can't change your messaging point to the media before you talk to the team because you have to be consistent. And he said, oh, he said that. Oh, I thought he was talking about play with some joy. So that's what he should be able to do. He has the right to be able to do that because Steve Kerr changed a message point that we had. And then he went on to being like, no, it's about playing with some more joy. So I don't have a problem with that. I think people miscalculate the amount of stress that NBA players, and I'm going to say it's stress because dealing with the media, I'm part of the media now, but we used to have a system in Minnesota. And when you only have 16 games and you only play one game a week, all right? And we only typically have two media appearances that we have to do. We have one scheduled during the week and we're definitely going to talk after the game. But you're talking about 82 games. Now you're talking about all these shooter rings. Right, right. There's so many more opportunities. So I'm not making excuses for NBA players, but I'm looking at the schedule. I'm looking at how many sound bites, how many times people can get them tripped up. And I didn't like talking to the media because to me, I got a job to do. And catching the football going across the middle, being in shape has nothing to do with the media. They might think they help you do your job. You help them do their job. So I'm taking it back to my days and there was also some contentious moments. Oh, my goodness. Like because I can't answer all the questions and I can't tell them the truth all the time. So what these media, the basketball players, what they're facing with the media, we should get used to this and maybe have something, not empathy, but understanding of how many times, how many days a week they have a mic in their face where someone is trying to trip them up. Because we don't see all and hear all the sound bites and everything that you get. You get a lot of bad questions from local people, people trying to make a mark, trying to get a sound bite, trying to... We're trying to bait you. Trying to please their boss. I wouldn't be surprised. I know the NBA, they made the season longer, but this is not going to get any easier for the players to deal with. Now, it's a part of the job. It's a part of your responsibility, but we better understand what they're going through and we better start looking at a little bit different if we're going to understand this modern day athlete. When I was a beat writer covering, you know, the Cavaliers, the Nets, the Knicks, I talked to some players, because look, I was at every shoot around, I was at every practice. I'm in the locker room before every game, after game. And I would get sick of going and seeing the players. Because it's like every day, we're asking a lot of the same questions. And I would talk to them, I know you get tired of seeing me. I'm here, so there should be an understanding. And I think with KD, I mentioned that I've been told KD and Kyrie were a little leery of New York. And I'm not saying they won't come, but a little bit leery just because of the meeting. It's something that should be discussed between the two of them. They should consider it. Now what I would say is that when you played, and when I was a beat writer, before the internet, it was a little different. New York was more different than everywhere else. No, we had the internet, we didn't have social media. New York's known for sensationalism. Right. And yeah, the internet was just come, but it wasn't as big of a factor as now. But the internet, I mean, New York's known for sensationalism, tabloid journalism. Now that's kind of throughout the country. Because you know, you can, Twitter. So it's not right. It won't be as different. It won't be as different. It's as jarring. Right, I agree. It's a little bit different, but it's not as much. I understand there's going to be, every city doesn't have a New York post. And I get that. And every city doesn't have the intense scrutiny. But you know, Philly's pretty intense, by the way. Boston local media is pretty intense. And the national media covers everyone. But the national media covers everyone. Right. The internet covers everyone. And so a lot of these guys, it's not at beef, typically, with the local guys. Not all. You know what I mean? Right. Because they do get relationships with them. For Durant, when it comes to the Warriors, everything he has done off the court over the last nine to 12 months has been setting up for New York. Now everything he's doing with Rich Kleinman, the office space that they're trying to set up, there's the element of LeBron's now on the west coast, kind of sucking up that air from the media. The Kevin Durant's ability to go to New York and be the star in the biggest city in the country. And Kevin Durant is in, and Rich Kleinman, to his credit, the mogul business. They have real estate deals. They're doing media stuff, their own media company. So it would be, to me, it would take a massive shift or a seismic event for Kevin Durant to change that course. I don't think he'll go to New York by himself. And I don't think he should. But because of the move they made. You go with Kyrie or somebody else. KD will be a huge draw. Like because of the move they made, it was one of the reasons the Kristaps trade, even if you'll have Kristaps as a player, was such a great move for the Knicks. Because now they don't have to do anything this summer to be able to sign two guys. But they'll be talking, KD will be talking with AD, with Kyrie. I just don't think you should go there alone because you won't win at a high level alone. And if you don't win in New York, it's horrible. And that's where the media will really get back. Let me say this last thing quickly about KD. In discussions with him and what he said about Kerr the other night, one thing I've learned about KD, he just wants to speak his mind. And whether it's some no name going at him on Instagram, whether it's a media person saying something, he's going to confront you. Or Steve Kerr, he's going to say his mind just because that seems to be the type of person he is. Can I follow up just one quick question? I'm sorry, you said about winning in New York. You said it's horrible if you don't win. If KD went to New York and won a title, that's the best. He's got to win a championship. Compared to where they were, all you got to do at this point for the last couple of years, get them into the playoffs. Initially, that's local people. But KD is trying to be one of the biggest names that's ever played in sports and how that gets him in other businesses. We're fans, all right? He's not a fan. He's making a decision that would change his life. Thank you for listening to the Hoops on Fox podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review letting us know what you think of the show.