 All right, thank you. Welcome to this afternoon's meeting of the Jones library building committee are designed subcommittee and the equity justice and inclusion subcommittee of the Jones library. So, I'm going to begin by. Convening the meeting of the building committee and asking members of the building committee to signify their presence. Vocally, Sharon here, thank you, Alex here, George here, Sean here, Christine here, fabulous and Anika here and Austin is present Christine to you. So, uh, Christine Gray Mullen here calling to order the design subcommittee. There's four members who have already made their selves known myself, Austin, Sharon and George. So, this meeting is also starting. Thank you, Christine. All right, Farah. Hi, Farah mean calling the equity justice and inclusion subcommittee to order. Walter Lloyd. Here. Mia Cabana here. And I'm here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, the first item of business is approving minutes from the January 5 meeting of the building committee. If I remember the building committee would move the approval of those minutes. So moved. Second. Thank you so much. Is there any, are there any corrections to the minutes of January 5. Okay. Loading on the approval of the minutes, Sharon approve. Yes. Yes. Okay. Alex. Yes. Christine. Yes. Sean. Yes. George. Yes. Anika. Yes. And Austin votes yes. Thank you. Those minutes are approved. Next item is the approval of the minutes of January 19. If a male member of the building committee would move the approval of those minutes. So moved. Second. Thank you, Christine. Okay. Any corrections to the minutes of January 19. Okay. Voting on approval Sharon. Yes. Alex. Christine. Yes. Thank you, Sean. Yes. George. Yes. Anika. Yes. And Austin votes yes. Christine to you. Okay. So if someone on the design subcommittee could move the August 30th minutes. So moved. And I second them. Okay, great. Are there any comments or changes or suggestions to make for those minutes? I see no hands. I hear nothing. So we will vote to approve the August 30th minutes for the design subcommittee. Sharon. Yes. Austin. Yes. George. Yes. And I also vote yes. So that's four. We'll move to the next one, which is their recent. Design subcommittee motion. So moved. Right. And. Second. Great. Okay. Are there any changes, comments, concerns? I see nothing. So we will take a vote to approve the January 19th. Design subcommittee minutes. Sharon. Yes. Austin. Yes. George. Yes. And myself that is four. They are approved. Thank you. And shout out to Angie for doing them. Thank you. Thank you, Christine. Next is the town manager's report, but I don't see the town manager present. Next item on the agenda item for financial update from Sean. Yeah. No financial update today. Okay. Only because we've been have meeting more often. So. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Craig, how nice to see you. Thank you, Austin. Likewise. Hey, the floor is yours. Thank you. With your permission. I'll share my screen with Sharon's. Absolutely. Technical. Approval. There we go. All right. You should be able to see that now. So our schedule. The only two. The only two. The only two. You should be able to see that now. So our schedule. The only two changes since last week is one. Obviously we moved over that red line, showing that we're a little deeper into design development than we were a week ago. And two. This council, this committee asked a couple of weeks back or a couple of meetings back for us to add a line for the town council approval. And so that is now here up at the top town council approval. It's got this purple bar. I'm showing a range of when that is likely to happen. So we started it. And speaking with with Sean, the range seems to be. So the last cost estimate in CDs, which would be 75% CD cost estimate. And that's happening at the beginning of October. And then could go anywhere at any one of the town council meetings between then. So that would be mid February of 2024. So that's what we're showing as a range. Does anyone have any questions? Hearing none. I'll stop sharing my screen. The design team is here. They have several things they're going to present. First being some landscape design. Next is they're going to answer a question. This committee had last week about the structure. And then lastly, we've got. They have prepared some studies for the gender inclusive bathroom on the first floor. So without further ado, I'd like to turn things over to. I wonder, I wonder if we could reverse that order and start with the gender inclusive. Restrooms, would that be a problem? We can certainly do that. Our thought was the, the gender inclusive bathrooms. Until the end so that the landscape designer, Rachel. Could sit in for say the first part, give the presentation. And then, and then thank you very much. I'd forgotten about that far. Just a quick question. Sharon. Is there any way you could let Jenny Hamilton and. She's in the audience. Thank you. Thank you for. Okay, Craig, back to you. And again, I'm sorry about that confusion about the order. No problem at all. So I'll turn things over to the design team. So Rachel officers with us from Berkshire design. And she's going to be running through the plans. And the images. Rachel, do you want to share your screen? Sure. Everyone see my screen. Yes. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, thank you. This is, um, we're excited. This is the first opportunity we've had to talk with you and get your feedback about this project. So we're really excited to hear your thoughts and, and work with you going forward to start off the discussion. We have an existing the aerial condition of the Jones library parcel. Um, just so that we can keep an eye on all of our, all of our neighbors and our butters and how the property fits within the context of town. So today the library has has frontage along amity street. Um, it backs up against the fire station and Amherst works. Uh, CVS parking lot is behind with a really strong pedestrian access across the site. Um, our proposed project takes into consider those connections and I'll talk you through that in the next slides. So looking at the existing conditions today, we do have a, a survey of the, of the property on site. Um, so this is a view of the front of the library today. Um, out here is the area that we're looking at now. Um, one thing that we noticed when we were walking around the location of the library is just a, you know, this, this area at the end of the community. So I think it would be nice to be able to have those in, post COVID times, that this, this structure has been popular with residents in town. Sometimes informal performance has happened or meetings. With electrical outlets. So we thought it might be nice to have a space in the design that would continue to foster some outdoor gathering areas. Um, Looking at the back of the library, the new addition is being added back here. The Kinsey garden area kind of obscures the entrance back here. So with the new plans and the relocation of that garden, there's an opportunity to have stronger sight lines and greater safety and visibility into the new building. On the sides here. This is the Amherst historical property is very close to that to the building. And it meets the meets with the lawn. And then in this corner of the building, just over here, but the children's area and we're thinking that might be nice to have an outdoor space there as well. At the back of the building. Today it's a little kind of damp and dark and cold, it's on the north side. So we're going to see the entry and there's an existing sight wall right up against that entry that will be engaging with in the new design. On the other side, a lot of service happens. We have parallel parking along the side here. 288 spaces at the front and a dumpster and some and parking for the library van is in the back. On the other side of the building. We wanted to first make the front door accessible so today there's a there's a pretty strong step up. And we looked at the grades out front and wanted to introduce a symmetrical U shaped pathway that's accessible. So this side of the path is fully accessible. This side is just a little over, but we went back and looked at the grades again. So we have a way to just adjust the shape and form to make both paths accessible to the front entry. In addition, for the children's area. We're thinking it might be great to have a great to have an area that classes or gatherings and there's a lot of after school events that happen and programming that's great at the library. Some outdoor space for that for reading areas. Some fun furniture for kids, we can play with the paving patterns or stamps within within concrete to make shapes that kids could then draw in or paint in might be something that references the library. For the fencing, we were thinking something decorative and something fun and colorful again tying into some of those great stories in the children's room. And over here, we were thinking that might be nice to have some more informal hangout space. Thinking here is that like, and some campuses hammocks are really popular. And we're thinking maybe these are these are items that could be set up with posts out in this area maybe some Adirondack chairs, but we go to library check out a hammock, you hang it you read your book, and then when you're done you return your hammock and go out your day. We've maintained the fully accessible walkway to this entry and we've cleaned up the parking area here. So that it's easy to pull in and back out without having to drive all the way out the back. Another area out back that we were, we're looking at this so this be on the north side of the building today where that was mostly brick and kind of smaller windows will now be opened up with fine gold centers really wonderful design. There'll be great eyes on this area we imagine this to be very active area, especially with the strong pedestrian connection back here. So this area could be a place with high tables for both kids and and adults so kids size adult size for working on a laptop or reading a book or hanging out, or people watching as people go by. This area here we had identified as again, more quieter informal area with cafe tables or other tables that could be fixed down, but then would still allow pedestrian access through this way. So when we were planting, Jessica in our office was out on site and she, she was noticing that just the overgrown nature of a lot of the shrubbery and vegetation just beautiful but kind of hard for safety and maintenance. So we were thinking. By cleaning up the ground plain layer with really subtle checks textures of characters and bulbs and other really, really nice low plantings that with good sight lines through that we could really make a garden that was safe and open and easier to maintain the these types of ground covers can grow in so that you don't need mulch and you don't have to keep a lot of time and expense maintaining it. So we do, we do, we will have some drainage considerations to consider where we are increasing impervious area, and this is the lowest, maybe one of the lowest places on site that we can gather stormwater. There's a lot of steam tree here that that we may have to may have to remove what that will do is that because this is the north side of the building, the height of the building will create a fair amount of shade in this space just by the nature of the building blocking the sun. And this area when it's opened up will allow for a lot of light into the area that's not there right now. These are some diagrams clarifying what I was talking about the circulation so today. This access point to the library is not accessible. This is the main access way. There's a lot of traffic coming pedestrian traffic coming through here. There's a lot of traffic coming from the CBS parking lot and there's a rear entry and hangout spots at the library are really just moments of bench here and a bench there, not really defined spaces. And so in the new design. We're providing accessible way in. And as I mentioned we figured out a way to make reconfigure this so this would be accessible also. So this becomes an arrival space. There's the children space to hang out. Another seating space in the back terrace area. And then for for vehicular circulation today there's parking at the CVS lot parking along Amity Street, a few spaces here in the parking lot and some informal spaces along the side. So we're clarifying that this area, expanding this area making it safer for vehicles and for people with them with some service access to the back here. So this was so by, and we can talk about ways to do that but by pulling traffic out of this, this side of the building from this point on, it becomes a pedestrian only zone. And I should mention that we're also looking at making up to just an accessible way around the building this way through the parking area. So really quick overview of what we're thinking and questions. Great, so questions comments reactions to this first sort of cut at the landscaping plan George. I've got a few, a few questions so I'll, I'll just address them all now and you can answer them. As far as dumpster access. I know it was thrown out there that we might not need a dumpster but the reality is we generate an enormous amount of trash and recycling. We're literally recycling just because we get many, many book deliveries almost every day of the week. So we really would need to retain at least a dumpster for recycling. I had a question about the structure because it appears that rather than a shed there is a corral there now. There's some type of exterior storage for landscaping equipment via mowers snowblowers shovels, etc. And finally, has there been any consideration taken into snow removal where snow we go and the subsequent drainage issues with snow in that driveway area. Rachel. Yeah, thank you. Thanks George. I'm just going to clarify the shed. We still, we still have the existing shed here. But if you know we can talk more if you need something different or needed something in a different location for the storage of those materials. And then the. I had shown like a roller bin enclosure area and I hear you, you need, you need more than that to accommodate the recycling on site. One of the challenges that we are facing is that the dumpsters are front only loading dumpsters, and they need a 50 foot straight away. So we'll need to reconsider this area as a team with Fangle Alexander, and look at, look at the clearances to see what we can do to accommodate that so I don't have a really fast answer for you for that just to let you know that we will look at this and, and, and get back to you on that. And then snow. I think the management of snow. The sides here, there's space in here to manage snow. And in the back. I think this will be a place to push snow I think your, your pinch points will be where the building is really close to the property line. There's a retaining wall here. And then here there's a retaining wall and the slopes are higher up here. So I think once you get out in this area will be easier to move things around but there will be a couple of pinch points here on the side and here on the side. Thank you, Alex. Thanks. A couple of things. One, I wanted to let people know that we have two people so Lee Jennings is in the audience. Lee is part of our sustainability committee but is also does landscape architecture design I don't want to exactly what you guys do that better than me so we have one of those who I think she has some questions and then also Melinda read who is on our, the library's garden advisory committee who is also a landscape architect wasn't able to attend the meeting but did send a couple of questions, which I can put out for the group. Lastly, just want to let folks know that we do have in the audience also some of our neighbors from the strong house. And so I don't know if they may have some questions as well. So, Melinda's comments which I think Rachel you may have answered some of them but again, landscape architecture is not my, not my jam so she asked about the rain garden zones that the boardwalks seem large, and wanted to know if they're wanting to know if the requirements are the same. The storm water capacity is what's, what's making the size of the gardens the size that they are. And then she also, also asked about the existing oak which I think you had referenced that one of the oaks may have to come out because of drainage so I think her hope was to keep the oak if we could for shade and obviously it's an ancient oak. She also asked what's the height of the retaining wall along the property line along the northwest corner. And then had also made a comment about the seating area on the east side of the buildings, which I think is may have to be redone anyway, along with the dumpster because her comment was that seemed a little awkward with the potential traffic. I think those were her main main comments that I'll put out there for now. Great. Thank you, Rachel. Yeah, thank you. And thanks Melinda. The rain gardens were an approximation. We will be doing test bits soon on site to look at the existing soils and find out how deep groundwater is and our civil engineer will be helping calculate those size. As shapes go, we do have flexibility and we can refine that as we go forward. We'll study really closely what that looks like as we get more so expect to see some changes there for sure. And we'll definitely be giving you an update but that that is an approximation based upon kind of like a gut check on what we see being added with the building. As you mentioned, the Oaks, we will try to keep it but we didn't want to promise to keep it when we think that we probably will have to remove it so we can look at that again but today that area, that area is mounted up. This is actually a raised area. And if we lower if we change grades by more than six inches it can cause a tree to die. And we're dropping things down several feet to be able to handle the stormwater so the likelihood of keeping it is very low. I have a question about the height of the wall. We're, we're working with fine cold Alexander on the new exit area. And it's looking like at this corner that were the height of the wall is about 2.5 feet. And we're able to slope the graves down the side here of the of the building, so that it's much more of a subtle, a subtle transition, I think before there was quite a felt a little bit higher than that like more like a four foot high wall with a railing. So that'll be a nicer transition I think. And that yeah, this area, as you mentioned will be reconsidered once we incorporate, I think about dumpsters. So, Jenny, before I call on you, I just want to ask a couple of questions since this is right up here. We've come a long way from, I think the original conversations obviously it's been years and years and my recollection, but Sharon or George or someone else can correct me if I'm misremembering is that there was some idea that we would do some landscaping on the side of the building towards the strong house. No, no. That, and again, our colleagues from FAA may tell me that was never that way, but there's nothing here because of the closeness of the property line, except that's grass, right. Right. And it's the property line that is determining that we couldn't do anything by way of other landscaping I'm thinking about to the back of that area where there's a little more green space. And would you like me to answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know that there has been issues with the shrubbery that's out here now. Yeah. Where people store things in the shrubs. And I know sight lines and visibility in this corner is especially important. And when you're when you're at the front of when you're walking by and guess I don't have a photo from the corner but yeah, yeah, walking around this corner. It looks like the Jones library property like the space in front feels like it goes all the way all the way over here. Yeah, yeah. You know, percept, I understand fully it's fully strong house property but visually because the strong house has set back so far, it looks like it's on a different parcel entirely, and it looks like that area belongs to the Jones. So I think by. I think that the existing lawn that is there is here. Yeah. So the whole Alexander's edition is going to be beautiful and clean. And I think having having a lawn that comes comes right up into that will actually look really elegant and be a clean way to tie into the strong house site. And we'll help with George dealing with things that he just discovering in the shops. But if that's something that folks feel differently about we can definitely reconsider that area at the back. Yeah, so right now. Right now there's a pretty significant wall with a drop we're going to take out. We're going to be in slightly different place and we're going to be able to have sloping graves down so again we wouldn't want. Okay, shrubs there where someone can hide. Yep. Makes sense. And one last question before I call on Jenny, could you go back to the walkway from the CVS parking lot? That's fine. So it it's this I can go in these two directions. Is that correct? Correct. And one of them lines up with the proposed entryway. Is that correct? Correct. And the other one is the imagine of if I want to go from the CVS parking lot around the side of the okay that's totally fibrous. Okay. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you, Austin. So I have two questions related to this one is actually one's a question one's a comment. In terms of the accessibility I'm glad to hear that you're finding a way to make that full path accessible and want to make sure that the your statement about making an accessible pathway all the way to the back entrance is is definite because we are looking at using the garden level in after hours events where the rest of the library will be closed and therefore full access is through that door will be needed. I don't know what right now that pathway to the CVS parking lot is kind of sketchy and uneven I don't know if that comes as part of this or part of the parking lot owners are a combination to the two but that would need to be repaired or easy access through there. But beyond just the basic access in terms of code. Our interest is really being in full welcoming so for me, if somebody had to go to a second way around rather than just being able to get into the library by the by any and all entrances that's that runs against the attitude we want to be sending so I'm glad that that that arch is opening up in the front and I hope the back will be guaranteed. My other question and I saw some in the q amp a questions about the outdoor children space and fencing and and all of that. My question is a completely different category but you know since this building is historic and that is the front of the old original building space is having funky fun kids space blocking that corner visually going to have any effect or any problems from the historic preservation and historic tax credit angle. Great. I do think we, we can definitely look at that further. One thing that we can, we can do is we can have low shrubs, and kind of a more formal front on the street side, and then we can do something that's hidden and more fun inside. So we can, we can play, we can play with that a little bit more but yeah we can definitely will definitely be considering considering that effect and so maybe we're toning down the colors and looking at textures on the surfacing, but I think there might be some space for some whimsy and fun within that can be a little bit more subtle. Thank you Rachel Alex. I just have one question it's actually my question. So I've never, I have yet to be able to visualize the, the community entrance the garden level entrance. You know the renderings we have from fine gold, obviously the land, the actual lay of the land. So it looks like it's this sort of, you know, wide expanse but that's obviously not what it's going to look like and so I guess I'm trying to get a sense of when we're walking down that path. I mean it sounds good that's a lower two foot wall than what we have like is it going to feel like are you going to be able to see the entrance and are you going to feel like you're walking into like a closed in sort of hallway or how, how are we able to make that feel sort of safe inviting and open with the land with you know the challenges we have around grade back there. And we can talk, Josephine we can talk to about, you know, rendering some sketching and maybe that's something that we can pull together for the next meeting, kind of a visualization of that view from the CVS parking lot what it looks like now we've got the photo and then what it might look what we anticipate it looking like in the future. So we are constrained with with respecting the property line and where that wall falls the grades here on the up here are six feet higher than they are here is a bit of a pinch point but we can, we can talk about that further. Christian. Yeah just building on that. So I would like to bring back the information on what kind of lighting is playing there is it downcast off the building is it going to be light pole. All the way back to that parking lot that would be great to know. Thanks. Thank you Christine. So I this imaging imagining I'd like to hear from Sharon and George about the. I'm trying to play area for the kids and the hammocks rent take on hammock hook it up. Come back with the hammock. I mean, does that, from your point of view, work. Yeah, so yeah the hammocks could absolutely be checked out. We had talked about it recently in some kind of meeting somewhere about the hammocks that are being checked out it, or are being offered on the UMass campus so I like the idea I haven't had, I haven't talked with my staff about it they may have, you know, logistical points of view, you know how do you enforce that the hammock come back that night and things like that but I think conceptually it's adorable. And there is, you know, Mia cabana happens to be I think she's in, I think she may be a panelist I'd love to hear what her thoughts about the children's play space. And Christine before bringing you in Mia would you like to say anything about the children's space. I would just say that we are often asked by families where the closest playground to the library is so having some outdoor space where kids can go and be is definitely something that patrons have been curious about. I think that we're lucky sort of where we're situated in town that in the last few years there has been a playground Kendrick Park that's opened up within walking distance of the library so there are some options. I would love to have outdoor space where we can do programs with kids that feel like. Not necessarily that they even need to be super structured but someplace where we can have water or a bit of a mess and not worry about kids being so close to the road. I think that that's really one of the attractive things and even as we've had programs out in the tent that you noticed just being able to have a space outside that is a little bit further away from the road it's amazing how loud things get there when you're trying to do a story time and your library is next to a fire department so I like where it's situated a little bit closer on that side of the building as well. Great roughly thank you and Rachel could you roughly tell us what the dimensions of that children's space are going to turn out to be. It's roughly 24 feet by 24 feet. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah just a little something to think about logistically about the hammocks, I think it's a cute idea but. So these are going to be very polls in the ground not the trees. And maybe if they, I don't know how these systems work if they have removable hooks or something because once you have people putting hammocks there they may not realize they're the library hammocks and at night and stuff people could want to hang their hammock. And just the other part of that is once people are seeing hammocks we do have trees we wouldn't want people to again get a little over exuberant and want to hang from these but I want to get no weeds there but just some more positive and negative thoughts about the hammocks. Yeah, yeah, I'm also interested in thinking with jaren and everybody else about hammocks, because they strike me as a kind of attractive nuisance once they are once they are there. And I don't know, you know, I'm always anticipating liability issues, someone falls off the hammock or, you know, a kid duck takes a header off the hammock. So, I think that's much later down the road but. Ginny. Thank you I want to put this in for the landscape architects. A few years ago I was talking with the president of the friends of the johns library board, who was sharing a story about when the, when this building was built after the original library burned down. Part of the dedication was members of the community brought stones to form the physical foundation of the library. I wonder when we're talking about gardens and garden walls, whether that might be something else that we could incorporate in for this renovation expansion, and our community members, bringing stones now. So, idea to file away. Thank you. George. Thank you for coming back to the hammocks and the children space. I think I don't think it's a bad idea but I think it's a logistical challenge that the staff would have to determine if it's something they could handle because if they were left out there they could become an attractive nuisance overnight. I think I would eliminate limit how many we put out as an experience so we weren't investing a ton of money into that because if it doesn't work out. We're left with posts and holes that we really can't do anything with. As far as the children's activity space. I would lean towards trying to make it as flexible as possible and not to make it only usable for a children space I mean I think having the flexibility to use it for other programming as well would be beneficial to the library in general. Thank you George. Okay Mia. If there was a way to incorporate some secure outdoor storage in that children's space I think that would also add to the flexibility that George is speaking about as we have used that tent. One of the challenges for our staff is just having to log all the tables out log all the seating out if it could be just a little bit closer I think that would make the setup and the use of that space even more inviting. Thank you Mia. Other questions or thoughts from the committees. First about this landscape plan. Because of what Craig said, namely our hope is to release Rachel from this meeting. I want to call on any member of the public. Who now wants to make a comment about this landscaping plan and provide an opportunity for them to do so now. There'll be other opportunity for public comment later in the meeting. Bob, Bob Pam. Bob you're out. So, I don't know what's happening with Bob's audio. I see GG barnhill so let's hold Bob and bring in GG. GG. Thank you. I just have one question about is this a walkway over on the left hand side. And what does that go to. Yes, this is a six foot wide concrete walkway. That's one of the emergency exits for the library. Okay. And it connects that exit to the library in front of the Avenue street. Yeah, so. I guess. I do want to remind people the, we had difficulties at the museum. This past summer and have over the years and I think the library has two of unhoused residents of the town kind of making their homes on our porch and in the yard of the library and I. That may be a consideration for the children's area, arguing for a hard fence, not just shrubbery, or you're going to find people. Sleeping there. Yeah, I suspect. All right. Yeah, so keep that in mind. No, I think that's all for now. I'm the our board was worried about impinging on our, you know, on the garden space. Yeah, really. And I see you've assiduously avoided that. And seem to have pulled the plan back from that one corner where I think currently the property line and the Jones come together. Yeah. But now that looks good. Thank you. Thank you. GG. Thanks for coming. Bob. Bob Pam. So I don't think Bob can hear we can hear Bob. So, hopefully Bob can get his thing will straighten out but let's let's proceed. So Mia, you have another comment. Okay, Alex. Yeah, I just wanted to either. I know Lee from our guard advisor or from our sustainability committee typed a couple of questions. So I don't know if she wants to come in and ask her whether. We want to ask on her behalf, but just wanted to. So I'll read them. Can you talk more about the pedestrian circulation in the rear. It looks like a combination of decking and walkway. Hope we can avoid guardrail on the walkway over the. Bio retention. And Lee also asked, I think we would have more success with the community if we had a playful fence at the children's area, but not so colorful and Lee, if you want to, if you want to join us. We would love to have you Lee. Hi. Hi. I think you, you did a good job reading my questions. So let's, so let's let's read your respond, but you stay with us in case you want to follow up. Okay. Rachel. Hi Lee. Thanks. Yes. So the guardrail the walkway. We, we'd have a solid surface, which could be asphalt or concrete route will be looking at that cost and paving. We were looking at a decking material, like a, like a trex material that would be really durable when it require a lot of maintenance since made from recycled materials. And then the, the grade drops and whatnot we're thinking that we would, we would only need like a two inch curb rail, according to ADA on the side so wouldn't need like a big major railing or guardrail that would obstruct views. So, and this is a fully, a very level accessible path coming in into the entry in the same over here. And thanks for the comment about a playful but not so colorful fence we can, we can get, we can work through a couple design options to play with that a little bit more but I do think a fence with vegetation combination can be to be really helpful. And Lee, you had one of the, you had one of her observation. Do you want to, do you want to make that one. I'm sure it just, it seems like there's maybe an opportunity to make the entry from the parking lot which right now is kind of confusing, a little bit more special, but from the CVS parking lot. Could you some stones there that somebody had just talked about or something else to help find that point in the parking lot. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, I think that's, that's, that's a terrific observation I think we're all interested in how that back entrance is going to work and how it's going to look and how it's going to work with the CVS and the observation about using stone back there would be. Thank you, Lee. Anything else Lee. Um, no, I think it looks like it will be a peaceful but exciting place. Love it. Love it. We hope that is that is true and confident that will be I see. Erica zikos. Erica, do you want to come in. Erica. Hi, can you hear me. Yeah, thanks for for this, Rachel that's a great explanation and I, I'm kind of excited but I'm, I'm still a little bit confused about the height of the retaining wall on that back corner. Right now, the grade change is on the order of six feet and did I hear you say that you're anticipating only about two. Two and a half to three at this point. Because we're raising the, the building floor level up like how how is it, how is the height change changing so much. So if we can, and the grades, the existing existing retaining wall. The grades here on the survey are around 320 on the proposed new addition grade is about 318 or 319 we're working with find out Alexander about about ceiling heights and how that affects the floor elevation. Right. So that, that's how that that is lower. I don't know if the wall itself is higher than the grade behind it. That's why it looks so high. We can, we'll definitely be looking at that with in more detail as we work with find gold Alexander on on the exit elevation. It's included in your photographs there's there's a picture of it. And then my, my other question was, is it possible in your mouse is like right on top of it to reuse or to repurpose that millstone that is something that everybody walks around and over all the time. Yeah, there's, I, we can, we can look at that for sure. I do remember this one and I think there's two. So maybe this is the one. There's quite a bit of damage to it. It was kind of a tripping hazard. I don't know if you can see it's very broken. Yeah. But, you know, maybe, yeah, we will look at that and see if salvaged or pieced together in some way. Yeah. Thank you Erica anything else. Okay. Thank you Erica. Let's see if I Bob Pam, you want to try again. Bob, Bob. So Bob, maybe you could check a type of question if you have one or an observation into the, the question and answers. Since we seem not to be able to hear you so George. Just referring back to the millstones I would just say that they are in very poor shape and that I would not advocate putting them in a walkway just because they are a tripping hazard and they're nearly impossible to keep clear during snow and ice. Maybe they could be used somewhere else in the landscaping but I would definitely not advocate putting them in a walkway. Great. I would just ask again Rachel just to point out on the, on the east side of the building where the parking lot is it's going to be. Are there any trees that have to be removed. This one. There's a little, a little, a little one here. Yeah. They have to be removed. Okay. I think everything in the public right away. You'll be fine. Yeah. And the trees in this area in this area are retained and kept with the design so we're working canopy layer and working underneath. Great. Okay. George, do you have another question. I just wanted to add that there is one tree along the driveway that's slated for removal because of its condition it's okay, it's falling apart. Right. Thank you, George. Okay, any other questions for Rachel about the landscape design. So, just brought in the Q&A. Oh yeah, thank you Christine. Thank you so much. So Bob Pam says, I believe that there will be a rain garden to absorb water. That's one comment we hope that to have people lined up to enter evenings can we have some kind of awning along the building edge to protect against rain and snow. Josephine do you want to handle the on in question. Sure, yeah, I mean, I think we could probably look at potential areas. It's hard to define a space at the moment just because of the path of travel. But that's something that we could talk to Rachel about, and you know the general direction of, you know, how people are entering the building. You have a covering at the front entry, a canopy at the front entry. For that reason, that we had introduced him to the design document and still in there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Bob. Okay, if there's nothing else for Rachel. I think it's to express our gratitude, how much we appreciate the work that you've already done and the imaginative way in which you've thought about our precious treasure of a library, and we will look forward to more of your good work as we go along. Thank you. Nice to see him when the hammocks are out there you might want to take advantage of them. I might I might just walk by. All right, thank you so much. Craig back to you. Thank you Austin. So the next topic that the design team is going to cover is responding to a question this committee asked last week. Relative to the structure. How much of it was mass timber, how much of steel back was originally presented and then you know what the situation with the status is today. Great Josephine we were able to quickly pull together some numbers, or the description of that. Yeah, yeah, thank you great. So, so yes, as Craig mentioned, you know the question came out about the amount of CLT that we were showing last week in those diagrams, versus what was reported in the 2020 sustainability report. And, and we did confirm that everything has been aligning with what we showed last week. The CLT report is right in line with that diagram which is right in line with the SD drawings and the cost estimate. And so that just as a reminder to everyone that that is based off of a very schematic level model. At that time we did not have structure, a structural model, we input it, we input the information that RSE gave to us and put it into our model, and we were working with them back and forth but we did have very general information at that time. So just as a reminder but we feel confident to say that we're in the 25 to 35% range of wood in the addition of the building. So that would be 25 to 35% just in the addition of new CLT slash wood, if you will. So that's the number that we came up with. That's a mistake so I understand it. The mix of CLT and steel is what it was all along. Correct. And, and therefore no, no change in the embodied carbon estimates or anything else. Right so the embodied carbon estimate again is, you know, estimate off of an SD schematic model but yes we're right in that range, same range that we were in it. Terrific. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that work and thanks for that report any questions about that. Okay, Craig. What's next. The next design topic is the gender inclusive products. Fabulous. I will share my screen if I'm allowed to. Sharon. See my screen. I think, Tony, you're going to run through the plants. Yes, I am. So we're going to start by just going back to what was originally in the SD layout, which is what is shown here. It's outlined in the Saudi darker grade 10. And as a reminder, the main cons about this is that these were the gendered restrooms, and there were clearance issues. And it was facing the art gallery. So what we're going to show you is some options. So the first option A is shown here and hopefully just think if I need to move the mouse to explain it, you can. But what you see here is that the way this is reorganized is that it is turned the facility so that one it is open but it also has protection from visibility and it is the entrance is facing the art gallery as you come in but then you bend around and then enter into the restrooms themselves and we line the right hand edge with these row of sinks. And then the various toys, which are all enclosed are shown as indicated with eight fixed restalls there. There is in the con side there is a slight partial view of the sinks if you're just standing just at the left edge. As you are coming into it you would begin to see it and it still faces the art gallery in terms of the entrance but it does address the gender neutral issue and it does address the privacy versus security versus accessibility in this option. And it also maintains the existing generative closet as well. Option B is that you can see now we've turned the entrance to the toilets on the right hand side as it faces towards the staircase and the elevator side of the public gallery. And therefore it makes a solid wall facing the art gallery is not facing it. And there's a wall. It just still has high visibility. It now opens to the main corridor instead of the art gallery. And there's still partial views of the sink. And if you again you're standing just at the edge approaching it, you do start to see some potential views into a couple of the toilet stalls as you pro so there's a little bit of a concern on the visibility side in this scheme. But it does address some of the other issues. The third option is sort of results in clearing the sight lines and making it very apparent that one you can move easily into and out of the restroom. But it does provide the privacy and security in terms of not seeing into the fixtures as well as the sinks. It creates a more welcoming entry into it. It has more space to engender the also increase of security and openness. The cons are that this is a larger footprint so we do lose the current location of the janitor's closet we will have to find another place for that but it does address the other concerns of the other options. And if you can this scheme right now just compares option a option B option C. And they're all they're all all to code they all meet accessibility requirements, etc. So now it really becomes a matter of personal preference, whether one of these really seems to resonate with everyone or a hybrid of this. So this is these are the three options we have today. Thank you, Tony, just a couple of quick questions, can you just give us the square footage. So what's the difference between options a B and B and one hand and see on the other. Okay, I'm going to have to do the math here so the first often a and often be our 23 by 22 that translates to 506 square feet. Okay, and C is 25 by 30, which translates to 750 square feet so option C is about 40% larger than a B, but do the math right. And is the size of option C driven by anything in particular. I mean, could it could option be be somewhat smaller is that is this a kind of design issue. I think what we try to do an option C is that in order Austin to flow around it and with the dimensional requirements for accessibility. To be tightened. Yes, we could probably study a little bit further could maybe shorten a little bit in the length of with issue. As you can see the placement of those things we necessitates moving around it that's that's we making the way it is. So that's the only that's the only thing that we see option B. If, you know, could we address some of the sideline concerns, it might be possible but there might be some trade off so for example, and I'll just we can hover on your mouse. So if you extend the two walls there and they're slightly right against the point and close down a little bit the visibility of the opening to the toilet elements that will that will increase the privacy. So what we can do to get off is that when you extend walls that also could slightly impact the issue of security so there's there's this balance option a, I think probably mitigates in some ways between the two B and C is a good compromise. In terms of at least the respective. Okay well the visibility, you know you have maybe slight visibility to the sinks but you don't have visibility to the toilet stall area. It's not really our gallery but I think you know the opening is pretty modest. So I think of all the three option a may may address the best compromise amongst these various factors. Okay, thank you well let's hear from folks Christine, first and then Walter Christie. Yeah, so thanks for coming up with all these different options. It's kind of overwhelming to have so many options but noticing on option see the janitor closet one way. If that is an option, I have to say I was still really hopeful that there would be a single use suit bathroom put in on that first floor and this wouldn't be our only option. So was that considered at all that since the janitor closet and the storage could go away that that's where a single bathroom could go and have another one of these options. You know this, we do have a single user bathroom that we located. Do we have the floor plan of the overall ground floor level that we can pull back. Yeah, let's do that. And maybe zero in. Yeah, we did end up adding one into this location here. I think we had talked about this maybe few weeks back, but we did add this for that request later on after the SDs. Thank you. Yeah, if I could just follow up. Sure. So thank you for that. So then just my last thought was so where, where does the janitor closet go is that like is see a really big sacrifice space wise because of course having more space looks nicer or would feel nicer. I personally feel that we can find a location for it. The dimensions are, I think Tony touched on this earlier, the, on that scenario on option C, the width can't change because of clearances to get around the sink and toilets per code, but we could still play around with the that bathroom. So this is still very much a study. And, and we're not too concerned because we know we can fit a generous closet in location in the area. Thank you, Josephine Walter. I'm wondering if we could, maybe we could change option A, but I think option B and C are the best for the accessible dolls because as I will tell you though, even though it's like a two code, the accessible dolls aren't it. Option A are definitely tight in a power gel. So it is definitely different, more difficult to maneuver in them versus the one option B and C. So are you confident to follow up on Walter's question are you confident that the accessible souls will be fully and aptly accessible to people in power chairs. Absolutely. Yeah. No. I know that option A is accessible by code and everything. I'm just saying, based on personal experience, the bigger, the longer rectangle dolls like an option B and C are easier for you guys. Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Walter. Sean. You may have said this but as a reason why the doors open out on the accessible stalls and option A but they open in an options B and C, because I could I can see why option I to with those doors opening out would be tougher to navigate into an accessible stall versus B and C where you can kind of go right in. I think that they can, they can work. And I think that the opening in, yes, definitely is a preferred way to typically enter into those larger stalls and given the dimension of them. It works. So I think option A, we just did that as a test, but I think option B option C could be the same way off tonight. Okay. Any other questions? I think I see far and then Alex far. My questions about the sinks and option C. So the way that's set up. Is it like, you know how sinks there's usually a mirror on the wall. Is that going to set up is that's going to be like an airports where it goes all the way up and their mirrors on two sides or how does something like that. Yeah, so an option C that's a really great question. We were debating this ourselves. So at the moment, it's shown without the mirror in the middle in option C, but if there was a mirror that was placed. So we talked about the idea that could be along the walls, coming in. So in other words, when you come into so the mirrors is not above the sinks, but they're along the walls where Josephine is miles is hovering on the left and the right. Okay, thank you. Thank you for Alex. Yes, I just had a question. I appreciate you adding the family, the separate family bathroom, because that was requested but you know again, the concept of this is that it's a bathroom for everybody and we're not creating additional spaces for, you know, custodians to clean where right now the single use bathroom up by the children's room is locked because of security reasons without it being locked. There are issues. Again, we get back to sort of the, you know, public safety versus privacy issues. And I was wondering if it's possible to make, I don't know what the code is I don't know if it's possible to make, you know, one of the wheelchair accessible stalls like a family bathroom like a larger stall that could be like a family in the bathroom, as well as having I mean I've seen that in other bathroom designs where, you know, sub family bathroom within the bathroom that has a big enough space for a caregiver. Which also we did get back in our survey that we definitely have caregivers regularly come to the library who are, I think could use a bigger space that's maybe bigger than a code accessible bathroom. I don't know if that's possible. Thank you, Alex. Tony. I think that's something that we can certainly look at as an option. It will depend on the dimensions that we would need for that. Larger size bathroom to fit within these, but we can certainly study it. Thank you Tony. I think I see Jenny, Jenny. Yes, thank you on on the same point at what Alex just raised and what Walter raised earlier of the larger stalls in B and C. Well, code is basic, you know, having those larger stalls is easier for a parent with a child with a stroller, someone having a caregiver there to help and so I think that that's, what you can see to me are the much better layout for that reason, in terms of access and inclusion of who is all going to be using the librarian using the bathrooms. I'm curious hearing from Sharon and George and Mia, and there's other staff here about the balance for safety between option B and option C. For personal preference, I look at this and I like B because it's, it's open, it's clear it's open. The door goes to the main hallway. And but the safety issues are ones I would like to hear on size wise when I look at the premium on space in the building and all the things we're looking to add. It's just like wasted space for a bathroom. When we're trying to get, you know, more meeting room space and more storage and and all that so to me, B seems like the right fit, assuming that that's not making more safety issues from staff's perspective. Thanks, George. Yeah, I tend to like option B. Above the other two, both for the largest stalls, because I agree those the stalls and option A the larger accessible stalls those. I know they're up to code but in practice they just don't really do the job as well as the layout and option B and C. I also say with option B the entrance is more central in on that floor versus option C whereas if somebody was coming down to the basement to use the restroom they're kind of hanging around a corner and going, you know, down a hallway versus option B is much more closer to the elevator in the stairs. Yeah, I want to echo what George just said I agree about the option B I actually like the fact that there is that sight line there, the doors there and you can see right into the sinks, and the fact that you're seeing it. It addresses the safety concerns. Thank you. Christine. Yeah, so just devil's advocate back on the just playing with like how would it actually be used, and it is this balance between safety and it is everyone's bathroom, but people use those sinks it's not just washing your hands, they could be brushing their I know this would be the norm but they could be have spilled something on their clothes and they're washing something out or, you know, a million different washing out their water bottles it's just, it is really exposed to that hallway, and I don't know if everyone will be comfortable. It's just really exposed and coming in and out of the stall. You can't even see you're walking in the hallway and you see someone coming out of the stall it's just a lot. I don't know. Yeah. Thank you, Alex. Yeah, I just want to echo we definitely did get some feedback about you know people wanting the ability to, you know, use which brings me back again maybe to the possibility if one of those accessible stalls is more of a family style bathroom that's got a sink and a mirror in it then it's just somebody that ability to groom or do as they need to with a little more privacy than an open area might provide. Thank you. Okay, Jenny. So one of those issues of someone who needs that extra privacy isn't this that really only an issue though and after hours, because when the building is open, every other floor is going to have multiple single use bathrooms. So the for for all of the considerations and particularly for the premium of space, the use case scenario of somebody unwilling to use a multi stall bathroom for an evening events to brush their teeth. It really seems like a too big of a trade off in terms of time and money and space, whereas if those those scenarios necessary could happen on the first floor second floor third floor if somebody needed that that room. So I just want to make sure, Craig, that we know where we are and what you need from the, from the building committee. So, Austin, so all of these options A B and C do not conform to the current plumbing code which we we understand. So, speaking with the state plumbing inspector today, he noted that there is a new draft plumbing code which would allow for gender inclusive bathrooms. It is out. He said it's in committee now then it goes for public hearing then back to committee and then gets rolled out. So, each one of these is something that we would have to ask the design team for proposal to author variances to the code, in order to get them through So the main thing is we also need to touch base with the local plumbing inspector. Similarly just sort of make sure that person is on board with these concepts. So that's one aspect. Another is that yes the design team would benefit from having direction a selection. Great. One of these as soon as possible, meaning as soon as possible is in tonight. Yes, if we can. Okay, that's that's fabulous. Thank you, Christine. So, Craig, did you speak at all to the plumbing code people about these options and which ones because they're all a variance but are there certain things they're leaning towards right now and what they are approving. Great question Christine so I was speaking to the state plumbing inspector, not specifically about this project actually about another project. Also going through this right so this is not the first group bathroom or gang bathroom that's in the state that's looking to be gender inclusive. I didn't review this these layouts but one of the criteria he mentioned is that in the current code you have calculation that the design team does how many occupants, and that determines how many fixtures you have. So, I think something that's being addressed here is, you can't say, you know, we used to have one male toilet and one female toilet and now we're going to have a single gender inclusive one. There's to be, we have two gender inclusive ones, which I believe is what the design team provided so that was one criteria he mentioned. Another is some of the variances that we would need to go for is one, the variance to eliminate or have toilets instead of urinals. Like that there's sort of these these small technical variances which I guess have been getting through with, you know, proper documentation and proper statements. Thank you. Christine. I only, I mostly asked because I following in the paper I see they are okay in some variances but they are declining others so I didn't know if we can look at those what's going on and aim for what they like. So, I have a, again, Craig, thank you, Christine. I have a question and then a proposal. If I've understood you, Craig and Tony, you would like the committee, the building committee to express its preference about these designs, and it would be helpful to you if we expressed our preference tonight. So, my question is whether or not people need any other information before we express our preference. Christine. So I just want to back up we had an SD one that's not shown here. And we had asked for some other options and look for a single use bathroom, going back to the original one there is very similar to C except C just gets bigger, which I assume the bigger is if we're going floor to ceiling doors, because it really closes in the room and makes it more tunnel like, did we firm up what kind of doors, we're going to go with, not just for we prefer, but cost wise. And with that knowledge, then look at these bathrooms and did we even need to change from the estate just wondering. Craig. I believe there was some preference indicated last week, but no hard direction on which stall type, whether they be the standard one, the semi private or the very private. And I, Josephine, what was the type of stall. Did that inform these new layout options, or was that sort of is that still a separate decision. I think that was still on the table. I think you're right great that they were, there was some discussion or interest in going towards the semi semi imposed. But I don't think that there was a final answer to that. But Christine's question, if as I understand it is, are any of these are all of these designs compatible with the door design that we were inclined to be choosing Sean. Can you go back to the three options again for a second. I missed the meeting so I may have missed if the decision was made on this. I thought one of the reasons we were looking at C was because C, if in the future for whatever reason we decided we did want to go back to having two separate bathrooms. C sort of allowed for that. I'm assuming a and B do not allow for that. Right. So C in terms of flexibility would be the most flexible. Oh, I can answer that. And, and yes, we were sort of taking that option, the original option. And we told you that, you know, we can potentially have that somewhat flexible in case and down the road. You wanted to enclose the wall or, you know, put a couple of openings and you have that flexibility with that option. And so C is sort of a, you know, the original revised to meet that. But I think some of the feedback that we got was that we folks wanted more of an open nature to the entry of the background, because it was still a little too closed off so we weren't sure if this was going to actually function in that way because it was still creating an enclosure, which I understandably some folks want in the bathroom entry. And I think that is one of the decision points for this for this option. But it's right that and B we if we go with those options, then that flexibility to sort of have to separate bathrooms would go away. Right. That's correct. You can convert them back. Okay. Thank you. So just clarifying is the SD option. Totally often it's just these three or is it for and as Sean was saying option SD and see have that flexibility and a and B. Tony. I mean, I think this is this is the decision of the group tonight, the option, the original SD option, which were gender specific. You know, we've moved away from but option C, if the determination was made that we actually want to reconsider that and bring it back for whatever reasons. It has the most right way to revert. This really comes down to a choice by this group. You lost me around the bin revert to the original SD design that splits it back into two separate toilets men men's and you know you gendered by adding a wall back in the middle. Yep. Yep, George. My only hesitation in making this a decision tonight is based on what if we do not get a variance and we have to have gendered bathrooms down there. It would seem to me that if we go with option C, we won't have to worry about whether or not we get a variance. Am I correct. Yes. The answer to George's question, which is if we if we wanted option B and we didn't get a variance. Then what, then we have to redesign. I'm going to point to Craig. I know he has his hand up and schedule will have something to do with this. Thank you Josephine Craig can you help us on this. Yes, so the variance would be pursued while all this was still on paper. Yeah. At worst, if the variances are unsuccessful, then we might have to give the design team an additional service to at a late stage, change the design because it won't be architecture at that point now at the plumbing drawings mechanical drawings are all you know, yeah. Okay, Craig is. Oh, well, I, we did up until the point of more money for the architects and then you went silent so we were grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, you've got the drift so if the, you know, the variance will be pursued while this is being drawn. Later on down the line during construction documents, if it turns out that the design team has changed it then that would be grounds for an additional service for them and their subject consultants. So there's a small risk to that small risk to that Christine and then Sharon. Um, so I'm, I like see because overall I felt the SD design was good. It just dependent on what kind of stall height and we choose and see gives even more space but yet adds flexibility and if the variance doesn't go through. I just hate to have any more scrambling and more design. We've already putting this design team through a lot of changes and just to continue that awful. And I also really love those bottom large stalls that add a lot of flexibility for more space to maneuver and families. Anyway, so I'm like see. Thank you so much, Sharon. Yeah. Okay, so I'm just a librarian, but isn't it likely that the variance is going to be approved a that's one of my questions. Because more and more, these types of bathrooms are being designed everywhere. For example, we have them at UMass and so the variances must have been approved there. And which leads me to be which is instead of designing for what if maybe this is going to fail. Why don't we design it for this is going to succeed. I believe so strongly because I live with two 17 year olds. And we know that this is the way of the future and the future is not that far away, and if we can build a space that makes it pleasant and safe and acceptable for every human being that ever walks these the library doors then wouldn't that be wonderful. So I'm proposing option C make the stalls in the, the bottom there the accessible stalls even bigger, put sinks in them and then poof. You've solved the problems you've got one space for everybody and you have options to go in and then we can eliminate that extra bathroom that's down the hall that George and his team are just going to have to go clean. Sean, I like Sharon's option. I would support Sharon's option. Well, okay, that's great. So any other any other questions before we then express our views on these options. Okay, so I see Alex and then, and then Christine. Thanks to things. Thank you Sharon. If we, I guess I have two questions about option C is if we're looking at option C and expanding those two larger stalls. How do we do we still have to deal with an entrance in a different way so that the entrance is facing the hallway, which sounded like gave some sense of security to staff so I guess I don't know if we could say option C and let's play with the entrance a little bit so I guess I'd want to know those things that we can do and we should plan for success not failure and then also know that we've got some trustees and architects and other people in the audience that I would love to have public opinion or public. Yeah, before having to take a vote on anything. So let's let's get the committee's questions. Answered. We have five members of the public present. Christine. I just wanted to hear from Tony and Josephine about their thoughts of expanding those larger cells. Great. Thank you. Tony. I definitely think an option C there's the possibility to expand those stalls there's the most space to do it. As to your question about turning the entrance to the side of the main public circulation corridor like has shown an option be, we would have to study that. You know, so I think I can't answer to definitively that yes, it can work without further study. But if we got to the largest stalls. Definitely this has the space to do it. Great. Great. Just to add to that, we would definitely want confirmation that of which salt stall type you folks want to go with as well, whether it's fully enclosed or semi private. Great. So maybe tonight we need to just hammer out what kind of stall we all agree to. And then they can go back and do this again and we can talk about it for next week for a final decision. Tony, Josephine. What's going to be most helpful to you at this, at this point, what do you, what do you want from the committee having heard what you have heard so far. I definitely think that we want to get a preference on the option with whatever champions or great things you want us to look at further. Great, we'll do that. Okay, I see Erica has her hand up Erica. You want to come into the meeting. Okay, hi. This is fascinating and a lot of fun to think about. One thing I want to question about option C I actually I think it has a lot of potential as a design but I do want to point out that the space between the sink, especially with a body standing in front of the sink, and the stall doors is quite narrow and it's about dignity for somebody who is using a wheelchair. You know, having to ask, excuse me, pardon me, in order to get past seems problematic. So that space seems quite narrow and I also think that an enormous portion of the room is given over to circulation, which could be resolved in that given the fact that it's also three feet wider than the other two areas that you're taking space out of an adjacent space either the corridor or the community room which could also be problematic. I don't know what the ripple effect of that decision is. And so, I guess, you know with with those things in mind I think that option be has some potential, although I'm hearing from the, you know, various members of the committee the potential to have the sink. The stall is actually a lovely. So could if you know if that's the case that could be get wider. And so I just I'd love to hear from the committee on those things and I, I do also just wonder if like looking at option C. If the sinks could actually go against that partition wall, and then create kind of take the North South dimension the 30 feet reduce that. And then maybe get some janitorial space back because I know that's important. Tony comments. Thank you. Thank you, Eric are very helpful. Tony. Those are very good comments appreciate that. Eric, I think that that that is at the crux of the matter. I do feel that option. See because of the width of mentions we can certainly restudy the location of those sinks vis-a-vis that in order to address that issue you are correct that there is a bit more circulation involved based on the placement of things in the center versus option B. So it may end up being that it's a weekend without without being able to design it literally tonight in front of you. It may end up being like the architect go back to the board you've heard the comments from the committee. Come back to us with a revised design and may end up being a hybrid between B and C by the time we're done. Right. Right. So I'm going to say something that I think I heard when we were in looking at this before and maybe maybe I misheard it which is option C. If I understood what was said. The concern was that people would sort themselves as they walked around that petition. Men would go one way women go another way. I may have misheard that. And I want to come back to this question about the stalls in option B versus the stall the accessible stalls and option B and accessible stalls and option C. What roughly are the dimensional differences. As far as the stalls themselves. Yeah, the back at the back. The accessible stalls. They're all the same dimension currently shown in all these options to a large option B or C to accommodate a family or caregiver how we want to call this we would have to increase the size of those that in any of these. Yeah. Okay, any other questions. So I want to come back to this question of the stall doors. So where we did I miss understand kind of inclined to the semi private committee. Alex. Yeah, I mean certainly from a community feedback perspective, the highest percentage that we got was for the semi private. So I'm happy to let the community make that decision. You know, that's that's one thing. Great. And the other thing I would comment is if we do, which I would love to see a family stall in there that obviously would be maybe not obviously I think that would be full walls because that would be an enclosed room so you'd have one room that was fully enclosed, and then the rest would be semi private. Okay. Thank you, Alex. George. I, I'm in favor of the semi private doors. Okay, so does anybody want to say anything at this point to indicate that they're opposed to the semi private doors. Christine. I'm for them. As long as there's that single use bathroom, or a family bathroom offered in some way. So I think we're pretty clear that we are inclined to the semi private doors. Now, is it fair to say that none of us are interested in option a. Okay, so let's take option a off the table. Are you ready to express a preference as between the design of option B and the design of option C. If you are ready to express a preference and again this is for the members of the building committee. Let's express our, let's express our preference. So I'm going to ask you to unmute. I'm going to ask you, are you in favor of option B or option C as the basis of the architects moving forward, having heard some of the possible refinements. Sharon. I can't believe you called on me first. So, I like what Erica was saying take option B make it a little bit bigger. So that's my answer. Christine. I guess I lean towards C, and I'm looking forward to hearing with the architects bring back looking because this is a readjusting the whole upper half and adding to the bottom. Yep. Okay. George. I like option C because it has the most flexibility moving forward. Okay. Alex. I think I like option B if we could. The layout of B, the size of C so if I don't know if I'm sort of a blend of the two where we could have a include fully enclosed family bathroom and in B to that entrance way since the janitor closet is on one side again that seems from a wheelchair access where that's a little bit tight so a combination of being seen. Okay. Sean. I like option C. And Anika. I do like the flexibility of option C as well but the B as well also. Okay, and speaking for Austin I inclined towards B. And my hope is that it can be a little bigger. The stalls can be a little bigger and that we can accommodate some of the things that we've heard. If my tally is right and it may not be that's four of us. That's three of us that like option B that's three of us that like option C and Alex would like some combination of options B and C. So how helpful was that. Right down the middle. Well, I think what we're if again Alex may be, I mean, in a sense she's the swing vote here but I think what we're basically asking you to do is to see whether you can come back with a variation of option B. In the footprint of C. And that will accommodate some of these concerns. Yeah. That's clear. Welcome to Amherst split right down the middle about bathrooms, but nothing else. Everything else. Do you need anything else from us about the general inclusive restaurant. No, I think we've got plenty of good feedback here. Thank you and thanks for all of you good work and if you could take down the screen share that would be good. Okay, Craig. Thanks awesome. So the last item we have is not ready today as you can see the design team has been very busy. Yeah, landscape and bathroom design. They have the staff or a proposal rolled into a formal request. We will submit that to the town and then we can take a look at it here in this group. Great. Coming soon. Thank you Craig anything else from you. Nothing else. Thank you Craig. Okay, we have subcommittee reports, the design subcommittee. There is nothing to report. And the outreach subcommittee. Thank you, Alex. I know of no correspondence. I know of no topics non anticipated 48 hours in advance. Now, an opportunity for more public comment. We have six members of the public still present if anything would like to speak. Please signify by raising your virtual hand. I see none. I want to say a special word of thanks to far and their members of the equity justice and inclusion subcommittee for joining this conversation when we return to the question of the accessible. Restrooms we will look forward again to having you present your, your work has been invaluable and your thoughts are really very, very helpful. Thanks for that. Austin, there's a question from Bob Ham in the q amp a. Thank you. Would want mirrors on the walls and see make the stalls visible. Well, I think we're kind of back to back to be ish so we'll hold that merit question off. Okay, so equity justice and inclusion subcommittee would you please adjourn. I adjourn the design subcommittee. That's good one out of three. Okay, equity inclusion. During the equity justice and inclusion subcommittee. Thank you. Thank you so much. And the Jones library board of know the Jones library building committee stands adjourned so thanks to everybody thanks to FAA. Thank you. Thank you all. Bye bye.