 politikul gada rings for the next 30 days. Welkom. This is youth and politics. This is a form part of the conversation today, including the building British Initiative, BBI. Is it possible for us to be able to go through one month without political gatherings and is this something that our own officials will handle? Will they do it? Will they adhere to the COVID-19 regulations and is the BBI has rege been stopped? That is a question that many people, many Canadians were debating during the weekend. This is why in the morning, thank you very much for keeping it why 254. If you just join us, you're just in time for this very discussion. To help us understand more about this in this conversation, I am with Atuiya Junior who has been with me since the beginning. He is a political analyst Karibusan Atuiya. Thank you so much again. And joining us on set is Roy Oppuba, ODIM youth leader of Ndiwa constituency, Karibusana. The hashtag is why in the morning keep the conversation going. Your thoughts, your opinion counts at Ramaguko, at why in the morning. The hashtag is why in the morning at Y254 channel that is on Twitter. Make sure that you head over there also on Facebook, why 254 drop your comments and your thoughts as you continue this conversation. Tell us what you think about the issues that we shall address and the opinions that shall be shared during this conversation. This claim comments shared during this conversation do not reflect the standard of the Kenya Broadcasting Corporation or Y254 TV. Now gentlemen, let's start with the containment measures for COVID-19. Burning political gatherings for the next 30 days. Is it feasible, Roy? It is feasible and according to me it's a good thing. There is a popular joke that is said that should any day we have a situation where coronavirus goes to Rila, then this country must be disbanded. You saw that video? Yes, so right now because Baba is having a home rest, the country has been disbanded in terms of politics. Everybody has gone home until when Baba comes back, maybe in another 30 days. So to us it's okay but Reggae is still on. Reggae is still on? I saw that video. I saw that video. I thought maybe we will laugh for days. What do you think about this? Is it feasible? Yes, it is. The country is not yet disbanded. We have not gone home. But the measures that the government is taking to contain the pandemic are actually feasible. It's all right. For those of us who are on the other side of the political divide, we are not worried for the sessions that have been banned because we already have a head start. We are in the lead. What kind of heads are you talking about? Those of us who are campaigning for presidency for Dr. William Bruto, we are already in the lead. My friend here Roy, they are trying to catch up. So I think maybe they might feel the ban was actually not so good on them. But for us we have nothing to lose. We are in the lead. We are comfortable. For the collisions that are trying to form coming up, they are the ones who are losing on time. So for us... You feel like you are ahead of time. So regardless of the bans that have been put in place even for fiddles because now that is where leaders normally take advantage of the platform. Last week we had the fiddles of one of the MP's sons. You feel in your opinion it does not affect your ambitions or plans as UDA. Yes, UDA. But particularly, you know politics is more... I told you politics is more boardroom. Decisions and plans are made in boardrooms. What you usually see at political gatherings are just what we deliberated at the back rooms. So for us I think we still have having conversations. We having new ways of doing meetings, zoom meetings. So it is just a 30 days to sit, reflect and continue planning on how to win this as early as possible. Interesting indeed there. Do you have a regional for that reason that you are the ones who are going to be affected and by you you mean ODM? I don't know. We actually don't have competitors right now. But I think he is part of the formations that will be our competitors. So I think he can't speak on that. Okay, I think what happens is these people are missing out on something. We are a country that embraces science and when it comes to matters of COVID now on a serious note we have had an upward surge in infections that is according to the research centers and the doctors. So it's only prudent enough that we take measures that are going to help us curb this pandemic. It's not about politics because if at all nobody fears anybody in this country in terms of campaign, in terms of resources and the masses. This thing has not been stopped because of politics. We are looking at the health because life is more important. We can campaign from now till eternity. So according to me I think the president was just okay to put measures that are going to control the number of people who gather at a particular place be it for the funerals, be it for the social gatherings, the normal social gatherings. So let's wait for the 30 days. Let's see what our specialist in terms of science are going to be able to do in the next 30 days. The question is will we even wait? Will we even wait? Is it possible? Remember we have violations coming up. This Thursday we have the violations for Machakos, the senatorial seat. Kavindo is there and so many leaders who are expected to be on the ballot will this wait political gatherings? You see we even had people, let me give an example, the countries like USA had general elections during the pandemic. I believe in our government, I trust in what they say and I am sure they are going to have enough containment measures even during the election time for Machakos. I agree to a larger extent that the measures that were taken into place they are not only just to burn on political rallies. It was purely on health issues but just to remind you we are not actually agribed that there is a ban of political gatherings. We are just not in panic that we are not going to do politics. We are on a comfortable lead so we are just comfortable with the ban. It's time to restart this. Coming back to your question on the bi-elections, I think politics is still going on. If you go to Machakos today and the candidates in the door-to-door there is a campaign going on. I think the large gatherings have stopped but politics has not stopped. We are talking politics right now. Politics will go on. In terms of the big gatherings I will agree with Roy. We need to stop for now. Let's see how that spreads out. No matter how the bi-elections will take place now that we have a series actually a series of bi-elections for the next 30 days how will we manage to even go out and vote during the poll process how will it be and then let me come to you Roy. What is your expectation for a bi-election to be held during a time like this where social distancing needs to be really observed? Is it something that is feasible that can take place without having super spread as you know attending such places and increasing the rate of infection for COVID-19? I think as a people we need to follow that is if we love our country if we love our health and if we love even for the politicians if they love the people really they need to do so but as you know there are people who are they are behaving like children with sugar it's their first time they are seeing such crowds and that is when I speak about I talk about the team from my brother's side they are just happy to have crowds around them you are happy to have crowds around them? No, I think he is referring to Dr. Willem this is not the first time he is attracting big crowds he has been with the Raila before Raila is known to be having those big crowds so he has been used to that he has been with the Uhuru he has been with Moe so we are not happy to see these crowds we are not anyway to something else still on the DP he said on Friday and this is what he really poked holds on a few issues especially on ODM leader Raila Odinga saying that he was behind the former prime minister and his political success and speaking during the Haslund Nation empowerment bleeds in Busea the DP said Raila's career had blossomed courtesy of his support he took a quick trip down memory lane and said that he had put his life on the line including risking getting incarcerated the ICC after supporting Raila during the 2007 election what do you think what is your reaction to that I will say nothing but to affirm the statements made by the deputy president the DP is known to be a king maker anyway it touches it turns to gold the last time he was working with the Mr. Odinga Mr. Odinga ascended to a very powerful position of the prime minister the last time he was working with the president Hori Kenyata became president twice so it's the reality seeing all this courtesy of Dr. William Bruto Dr. William Bruto it's not an issue of trying to brag but it's the reality Raila to his own right is an astute politician but William Bruto had an hand when Raila became one of the most powerful individuals in this country so credit to him your reaction to that Roy I think one thing is the people from the DP side the people from William side and I never want it to be an issue they think that William as the gate pass to state house and I want to dare them if you have the gate pass to state house then you feel you can get to state house then just get to state house in 2022 don't bother us around with so many stories okay in 2007 Raila who helped Ruto more than Ruto was already party less we brought him into ODM we made him we made him powerful we even gave him ministry but he says that Raila chased him away he was chased after he had started stealing so what are you talking about stealing more when Ruto was fired by Raila during the coalition government there was a scandal that had come from his ministry corruption cases that is why you see Raila as somebody who doesn't tolerate corruption impunity had to push him away but it doesn't improve in a court of law and I don't agree with these sentiments that Raila does not conduct corruption a few months ago he was sanitizing governors at his office you could just go to his office if you are corrupt and then the next day you are scot free who said that those people are corrupt and when was it proven that the governor was a corrupt in the public court yeah we could see that for instance a governor from center who I don't want to mention how he is named actually after visiting the governor's office the next time instead of facing a full plenar in the senate a select committee selected senators who were friendly who were selected into a committee and they sanitized her so how does this connects to who supported who more in their political career I think that was just political convention because when our DPD president goes to areas where he is inclined to the honorable prime minister he tends to call first of all he tends to call Raila Aguambo or Tinga but when he goes the other side when he is in his home base he calls our prime minister Muganga so the guy looked at the crowd and he saw that the crowd was not on his side so he had to say anything that can be appealing to them but we are telling him we as the people we as the sons of Raila we as it may let's assume he is the one who gave Raila the prime ministership so let me quote what Honorable Ruto said I am asking you am I not the one who pushed Aguambo until he became prime minister was I not taken to the haig and almost got jailed was I not the one who pushed him to become the prime minister that is what he said during that conversation so echo emoji say do you feel that he is not a king maker he is not a king maker that is just political comradeship and political narratives he is not a king maker you know I think Roy is even giving us a credit that the DP knows how to marshal crowds when he is in Busea he knows the good choice of words when he is on the other side you giving credit to the next president it is a reality to be seen it is in the open in the public domain that William Ruto was strongly even agitating for a re-election in 2007 he never even wanted the Raila to accept the prime minister position because by then deputy president believe that Raila Odinga had won the elections so in the circumstances that Ruto wanted for a fresh election he was wishing good for Raila Odinga but what happened after Ruto was appointed into cabinet and when Ruto tried to flex his political marshal Raila never likes that he will push you out so you can see the likes of Mdavadi who never wanted him to run away the likes of Nyaga, Balala they were lost they were vanguished politically when I left Agambo to Kalonzo, Mdavadi and Mutambula did they help him in any seat no, they come out I have a question to run one thing I want to affirm to you is that since Ruto left ODM Raila has never lost an election Raila won in 2013 Raila won in 2017 so he can only say that they stole from Raila in 2013 and 2017 Raila has never lost that is something that must sink in fast into Ruto's mind before he starts saying that he helped Raila in 2007 even that 2007 Raila did not lose it's opinion is entitled too but if you win an election in this country you get so in by the chief justice that has never happened we've been in 2013 we were in court in 2017 we were in court but it has never materialized that there is no court in Kenya that has ever pronounced that Raila Odinga won elections in 2017 the supreme court actually said there were irregularities in the process of doing the elections they never said A candidate A or B won the elections so that's why they ordered for fresh elections but they called out and they ran we just had to run and win the elections again so this kind of is about who has more power, who helped I will ask Roya a question remember the former Pentagon members of the ODIM tell me who was more who brought more havoc when he left ODIM William Ruto left with almost 4 million votes when he left ODIM David never left with anything from ODIM David is still a president in western he cannot even get a million votes from western who else was there Balala cannot even get 20 votes for anybody from Kost but when Ruto left he left so much votes from the Raila basket and it's something that he must have left let me give you time to before I move to the next question there's something that he says that when Ruto left ODIM was not affected ODIM is still the largest and the most democratic party in this country and why that Ruto was the one who was controlling ODIM and giving it a name then ODIM would have died in 2010 when he left ODIM is still there ODIM still has structures it's only William who has changed parties 4 times since he left ODIM to mean who is more it means if William needs the presidency then he can only come back to ODIM or look for Raila now I have something that I've been wondering is it possible just by any chance that by 2022 we have a pact between Hondrabu, Raila Odinga and Dr William Ruto is it possible that these two could actually meet and form a coalition Yes, I will I will approach that question from two different perspectives Yes, there might be a handshake after 2022 elections before? No, not before after we have won the elections most probably the deputy president most probably we will look for Raila and they have a handshake but I don't think we will have another BBI that's a scenario one the second one currently as things are I don't think the deputy president needs Raila Raila needs William Ruto so if that was to happen something I don't want to happen for now then Raila has to look for Ruto How does Raila need William Ruto yet since the handshake began till now we have not had any instance where he actually needed him Politically Politically Raila will be offered after BBI so he will need another kingmaker but this time round Ruto won't be available to be a kingmaker now the only remaining option for Raila is to just say is a charge and say so that he can't be seen as a statesman but as working with Raila at a friend level not a political level again but after the elections I think for somebody who has never heard his name on the general election ballot box as a presidential candidate Raila has no fear or argument with such a person so let first William Ruto bring his name on the presidential ballot paper for the first time in his life then they can come and talk about but the deputy president twice? no that was the deputy he has just been a pool baby people have been running and he is behind now this time let him come and rise you call a whole office of a deputy president or pool baby yes let him come and rise so that we see the weight but that office has weight no a deputy president it is the president who reign with the deputy behind him so Raila has been running let him run and then we can see if whatever this chenanigans has been saying but I'm asking is it possible that before the elections we have a pact between these two individuals unless they come and apologize who comes the people who have been calling Raila Muganga the same people have been calling the deputy president some names and they have really been calling some bad names and I say this William Ruto will not look for Raila Udinga but Raila Udinga is the one to look for William Ruto at the moment we are leading by a very big margin so we don't need Raila Udinga what did you do how did you come by the information that you are leading with a big margin I will throw back a question for presidency right now and tell me who else is again as the deputy president many people are even looking for endorsements Musala Mudavini also they are talking about vying for presidency governors talking about it that's why they were kicked out of government because these people they have been running for the last 4 years almost 8 years since 2013 just running running and running I want us to shift gears again BBI Fona Sili that is in Jeru Kadangu says that analysis of the constitution of Kenya many have built 2020 shows that there are multiple proposals which fall part of the party's values and the aspirations of the hard fought gains of the 2020 constitution but now according to Kadangu the party will be on an issue based campaign to oppose the BBI proposals what do you think about that Roy? I think everybody has a right to either support or oppose the BBI but it is laughable when brief get parties like Fona Sili come here telling us that they want to oppose the BBI you don't consider them as a solid party no what does Fona Sili have really apart from registration certificate those are small parties they can regroup there and they decide on whatever they want to do whatever we know is that the big parties that is the largest party the two largest parties in Kenya have decided that BBI is good and we the followers are also agreeing that BBI is good Fona Sili they have no representation in parliament they have no representation in the counties so on whose behalf are they talking that's just a group some office some hotel and they want to say BBI is bad but now when you make such a claim without any proof how do you claim that a whole party that has been registered Akatel? not a small party definitely a big party should have representation any small parties Akatel? no who has given the mandate to come and say that the people do not want BBI if BBI was passed in a majority of the county assemblies and it was passed by the MCS who represent Kenyans Kenyans told the MCS pass BBI BBI is going to pass in parliament so who is this Fona Sili to come and say that people are saying which people what is the litmus test litmus test to determine a party's scale whether it's big or small the number of MPs, Senators and Governors that it has and even MCS I think I will conclusively agree with him that Fona Sili is a small party I don't think they will have a real impact trying to oppose BBI BBI is an argument of some two individuals some big political individuals in this country that came up with an idea to mutilate the constitution of Kenya now it has reached a stage that it is being forced on Kenyans I don't think any Sen Kenyans currently will want to use these resources or high resources trying to campaign again as the BBI because it's like it's a predetermined outcome we've been actually calling for a multiple choice referendum so that I have the choice to vote in for the 35% I have the choice to say that the opposition leader joins parliament but I also want the opportunity to say that we don't want a balloon parliament we cannot have 94 Senators and 600 MPs that's what we are against I also don't want to see our judiciary being monitored by the executive so there are some good things in BBI that we really support and there are some things that we need to have a choice do we want them or not then why don't you form an agreement with Foda Sili since you agree on these things now let me quote what the party will shortly be settling on a no secretariat and a campaign committee and advise all Kenyans on good will support these terms now what they are they are talking about they are fought against the very things you've talked about the ombudsman issue they are fought against it they say no to it the expansion of the executive they are also saying no to that which you are also saying then why not come together we don't want to be forced to take positions for political purposes you cannot make a coalition with any party no we cannot yes we can but Foda Sili is not one of them that we really consider to have a coalition but we don't want to be forced to take sides the aim was let's go into a referendum let's isolate some guys and go to the opposition let them lose the referendum so that we can build a momentum for 2022 you feel they will lose the referendum no they wanted some guys to oppose the referendum so that they are on the losing side because the referendum is a pretty term it's gonna pass and take this to the bank the BBI will pass with a very low margin of voter turnout 4 million or 5 million the people will turn out to vote majority of Kenyans will not go to vote the few will go to vote will make BBI pass will make BBI pass alright but you still say that they are not a party of note and I wonder how you claim to be a movement that unites Kenyans when some Kenyans are not of note politically you need to have weight to be considered on some political tables this no campaign will it pass as I said earlier everybody has a right if you feel you have you have the capacity to campaign and you know when you are campaigning against you have to move across the country this party that are only stationed in one word or one constituency or one county if you want to campaign against BBI you have to move around from Mombasa to Western to Rift Valley and convince Kenyans that the BBI is a bad thing for them which Kenyans already know that BBI is a good thing for them including me in the fact that we should have an ombudsman in the office overseeing the judiciary do you agree that we need 94 senators it is in the BBI and ODI how you support the BBI so you support everything in the judiciary with all the full stops and the commerce this is what you want to change this is what you want to change in this country we need to support what you agree personally not because my political godfathers have supported it if today William Duto student said he supports BBI confusing me I myself love my reservations I still don't agree that we should have an ombudsman but you must respect the fact that if I support that cause you must respect that you must not look into it as if I am supporting it because somebody else supports it but do you actually support a ballooned parliament there is nothing like a ballooned parliament those are just propaganda that UDA they will borrow people who are trying to put across so that BBI is rejected but it is very funny that BBI passed excellently in the county assemblies even if I was also given the 2 million I will vote yes as the names here let me go there let me quote from Robert John Buddy he said you agree with that role if this is the statement he added if this is the case of course he was talking about ensuring that the handshake lives up to its expectations especially when it comes to the uniting factor of the BBI document do you see this document also forming part of the conversations of 2022 post referendum no no BBI is BBI itself we as the ODM party we are not mixing BBI with 2022 BBI was to bring prosperity and peace to the country what happens after BBI everybody has already said everybody will take their own path that is the latest twist but prayer to everything that is happening in this country I am very very sure that most of ODM supporters knew that BBI was here to have a political agenda most supporters of Raila know that BBI was here to help Raila actually finally achieve his presidential ambition and the fact that they have started to realize that it's very unlikely that President Huru will support Raila Odinga I think they are now mentally preparing their supporters Danfiro is already shifting and he is now accepting the fact that they will be used past the BBI because currently truth be told the president cannot work without Raila I want us to reach this conversation you say the president cannot work but he is in government which raises lots of questions but anyway Senator Pogisio said that currently the handshake and the BBI are amongst the biggest headaches for the president Senator the senator majority leader Samuel Pogisio do you agree with that Roy you see the first thing I want us to get you must know that Raila is not in government when BBI was formed BBI was formed because this country had gotten to a place where the supporters of Raila had said that let's divide this country let's have this country become two countries each county who supports that was the NASA by then collects revenue and submits to the NASA secretariat so when BBI was brought it was brought to unite the country that's why it's called the building bridges initiative should it be that the BBI is the biggest stress to the president then that is to him that is his own stress but we as the supporters of Raila and we as the ODI BBI is just for prosperity and for peace that one we have to achieve as a country as a people as people who share the Kenyan flag that is all for us but is it really true that BBI is for peace if BBI was for peace then we could never have seen violence in Kibra in Sambueni in Matungu I hope we won't see that in Machakos because if BBI was for peace then we should be seen real peace I want to finish this conversation and this is where I would like to if because now the BIA elections for Machakos are in a few days from now what is the expectation for this BIA election that shall take place in Machakos just in a short period and how you feel the BBI could take center stage on this BIA election BBI on the Machakos issue I think there is a coalition coming up the Gideon Davadi Kalonsu Alliance I think they will again want to test their muscle in Machakos and one thing that you can see that they are trying to separate themselves from Rayla so if again they win in Machakos I think it will be a big plus for them but I strongly believe and know that Machakos will be the first Senate position for UDA UDA is going to win that seat very early in the morning that's our first baby in the Senate okay within that seconds I wonder when he says that ODM or Rayla will lose Machakos how do you lose what you didn't have first of all we have no candidate in Machakos ODM is an international party so we are not going to lose anything you can never lose what you didn't have so from your conversation to move ODM from that BIA election we wish the best person to win that seat we are not vying we don't have a candidate there we don't mind about it that is all business to the end of this conversation it's hot I wish you had more time gentlemen two gentlemen here talking about politics youth and politics in regards to the political succession of BBI that shall take place in the discussion on BBI that shall take place during the violations that shall have happened in Machakos we remember it is taking place on Thursday also Roy Opuba who is the ODM youth leader of Diva constituency and Tuya Junior who is a political analyst gentlemen thank you the hashtag why in the morning after amaguko at Y254 channel we are taking a short break after this break it is all about academics versus career which one affects the other don't go too far