 My name's Phil Campion. I'm ex-D Squadron 22 SAS. Don't worry about me, let's get it on. Yes, I was in the SAS. Yes, I've been on television. But yes, I've also had some major problems in my life. It don't matter if he's not good at math, it don't matter how much money he's got in his pocket, because you've got to wear exactly the same as the S. God, God, I've got to try and not get emotional, Ed. Just make sure you save one for me and slap me in the head before I go like that, I mean. I've just blown your marksmanship principles out of the water. Phil, how are you, brother? I'm all right, mate, I'm all right, I'm good. Mate, this chat's been long, long overdue. We've been really, really looking forward to this, and gosh, there's probably been so many people asking for you to come on the show. Right, okay. How's the book going, mate? Yeah, all right. I mean, it's the paperback release. The hardback didn't go as well as I would have hoped for, to be honest, but the idea of the book really was, as a mental health tool, to be honest, do you know what I mean? It wasn't as a sort of, like, Phil Getridge quick plan, do you know what I mean? It was, I wanted to do something which showcased my mindset and some of the things that went on about it, because when you look at a bloke like me, you go, well, yeah, look at that hard bastard and all that sort of stuff, do you know what I mean? And it's not right, I want people to understand that there's a lot more to the makeup of a person than that myself, and there's a lot more you can learn from a person like myself, do you know what I mean? In your own world, do you? Yes, mate, and we have learned from you, Phil. I mean, even in that little bit you did with Bear Grylls the other day, I loved it. I've got to try not to get emotional here, but when you said about your tough childhood, but that's in the past, we move on. You know, this is the, I think what a lot of people we've experienced trauma need to hear, don't they, you know? Yeah, I think that, look, everything on the human body is designed to move it forwards, all right? Everything, the way your bones are constructed, the way the eyes are on the front of your head, everything's designed to move it forwards. And I've always, that's what I've been my thinking life, go forwards, go forwards, keep going, do you know what I mean? Don't, you learn from your mistakes, fair enough, but don't keep dwelling on them, don't keep going back, don't sit on them, don't bring them up all the time, move on. Yeah, I think you're right. I think when we're in that mode, we're in victim mode. And if you're in victim mode, you're not grateful for this life, are we? And if you're not grateful, that's not a good place to start. That negativity generates negativity, you know what I mean? And it tumbles, it tumbles downwards really quickly, you know? And you've only got, you've only got to have a tiny bit of positivity. And I'm talking, you know, I tell the story about when my dad used to beat me up, and there was no positives in that at all. Until I realised that if I stopped wriggling, he stopped hitting me. And then I had a small positive to think, well, I can control this now, because I can stop him hitting me by stopping screaming and wriggling. And it worked. And I still got a beating, but I didn't get as bad a beating. And in my own mind, I'd control the situation, so I had the tiniest of wins. But that tiny win taught me for the rest of my life that, you know, you might be that low, you can get under a snake's belly with a top hat on, but there's still a win to be had somewhere, you know what I mean? What is there in your lungs? There's a win to be had somewhere, do you know what I mean? Yes, exactly. Turn every negative into a positive. You've certainly done that with your life. Try to be honest to do that. Yes. No, you've done a good job, Phil, thank you. And it's a funny thing with the books, because I have this being an awful myself, and many of my forces guests have written books, that they're bringing out, they still bring out the hardback before there's paperback. Don't they? Yeah, I don't know what, look. I don't know the reason behind what these people do, do you know what I mean? I've got no idea, but, you know, my sales usually increase once the paperback comes out, and I think that's down to people's pounds and pockets, isn't it? You get the same read, the same pictures, half the price, didn't you? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's, from a publishing perspective, oh, I'm just going to sort my screen out here, it don't make sense because when that book's released, you want maximum, maximum exposure. So, you want people that can't afford a hardback, or they don't even want a hardback, they just, I think, give everybody it at the same time and let them make them minds up. I think publishers don't... Yeah, I think you're right. You know, I think you're right, throw the lock out there, do you know what I mean? Because the people are going to buy hardbacks and buy the hardback anyway. Yeah, yeah. I do the cruise liners, and I'm very often got hardbacks and paperbacks. If they want a hardback, they'll have a hardback, they'll pay another X to five before it. If they don't, they won't, they won't pay to five, but that's their choice, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And, Phil, we talk a lot on this show about, I'll just say trauma. A lot of people have this impression that trauma for military is something that you've been in active service, you've seen something really horrible to your mate, and I try to make people who I know, I think a lot of us, we joined up with the damage. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Certainly in my case, you know, I've seen quite a bit by the time I've reached forces, I've been groomed by a pedophile, I've been beaten by my father, I've been bullied as a kid. Do you know what I mean? So there's all that sort of stuff, all goes into the makeup of you, isn't there? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it does. And friends at home, Phil's a shining example. I hope I do my best too to show you that once you get a grip of it, you then can use your life experiences for the better and create that. And not just for your benefit as well. You know, I've got this rollers champion of the Cadet Force, they find it very useful for me to try and talk to you in a way where I've been there, seen it, done it. Do you know what I mean? Now they won't all listen to me because you've still got to make your own mistakes in some cases. But some of them do listen to the stuff I've got to say and some of them, it turns them around a little bit. Yeah, definitely. And I think it's the credible source, it's the fact that you can say, yes, I was in the SAS. Yes, I've been on television, but yes, I've also had some major problems in my life and this is how I overcame them. Do you know what I mean? And it's not all over. It's not, you don't give up at the first hurdle. You don't just go, oh, but a few problems, boom, it's all over, the world's ending is. Do you know what I mean? It ain't that bad. You still have oxygen in your lungs. There's still something you can do about it. You know, and I write in that book, in the book there, you know, I was locked up in a shipping container in Togo. Having just been told by the guard, you are definitely going to be executed at some stage. Do you know what I mean? Well, there's oxygen in my lungs. You know what I mean? We'll be the judge of that. And the other thing as well is something that you say, Phil, today, it might not ring a bell with someone for another 20 years, but bang, then when it does, they'll go, I remember that nice bloke, Phil, said this 20 years ago, and I want ready to listen to it then. But it's making sense now and it helps to put the picture together. Yeah, some people don't acknowledge that they've got a problem even, do you know what I mean? Or they don't acknowledge that there's anything they can do about the problems. I'm a strong advocate, right? People say to you, you're mad if you talk to yourself. I'll say you're mad if you don't. Because when I look in the mirror at night, right, when I look in the mirror, that's the only person on this world I can't bluff. I can't tell that person a lie in that mirror. I can only tell him the truth, because he knows. Do you know what I mean? And I swear now, right, when I got remanded in custody, I was in Winchester Prison, and one of the first things I did was catch myself in the eye in Winchester Prison. I looked in the mirror and I went, you are an absolute belter, son. Do you know what I mean? You absolute melt. What have you gone and done? And I had this bizarre conversation with myself, a bit like sexy beast stuff. Do you know what I mean? When Don Logan's looking in the mirror and going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I've done that. And I was like, this actually works. I can see where I'm going with this a little bit. And I think acknowledging my own problems in myself there helped me to talk with other people about them when I got out. Yes, yes. There's another film. What's the chap's name? The one that was in Scum and Sexy Beast. Ray Winston, isn't it? Ray Winston. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know Ray? I've met him a couple of times. Yeah, through Billy, actually. So, yeah, Billy is different to him. Yeah. But they did another brilliant film and it's, I wouldn't say it's underrated, because it did really, really well. But with Kathy Burke, it was, I think it was called Kneel by Mouth. And it's one of the first, well, it was a really good British film. But it also highlights like Child of Trauma, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, really, really, anyone out there, if you watch Kneel by Mouth, the other star, and I can always forget the guy's name, but he's been in lots of the sort of Essex Boys kind of films that have come out. And there's one bit in it. He goes, my dad shot my dog. He shot my fucking dog. And it might just sound like a line in a film, but you can, you know, you think the fucking pain a child can go through if their parents ain't got it sorted out. Yeah, no, it's incredible. But do you know what is also incredible? How resilient children can be at that age as well. Do you know what I mean? How they can manage to stumble through it. Because they don't have a lot of choices. Do you know what I mean? And this is a lot of things I try and pass on to young people. Just because you're going through a hard time, it doesn't mean you have to give up. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Sometimes come and go. And I've lived on a rollercoaster, do you know what I mean? I really have. But I've been that high one minute down there, and then it's up there. And I've somehow managed to muddle my way through. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, I still haven't given up yet. There's still things I want to do. There's still ambition in me. I'm still burning away. You know, I'm 53 now. And there's still things I'm trying to do. Do you know what I mean? That passion will ever go from me. And I think that people can learn. You don't even have to learn passion. It's there, but you've got to learn what you want. You've got to identify what you want from life. Do you know what I mean? Exactly. And the other thing, how many times do you hear a week someone goes, oh, I feel, yeah, I wanted to join the military, but my mum said no. Yeah, other times. That's fine. And I do get a lot of that. I was going to do this. And the one I get quite a lot is I was going to do selection. You had your choice. You didn't do it. Just leave it there. Park it now. It doesn't matter anymore, does it? You know, I was going to play for England at football, but I was shit. So I couldn't do it. You know what I mean? I'd love to have done it, but I didn't. I did something else. Yeah. Yeah, well, I can tell you safely I wasn't going to do selection. It's too fucking hard. Bob Consiglio would just, back then, there was a weird thing you had to do. You had to leave the bootnecks and join the army and then apply for SAS. It was something. That's right. Because he did it at a time when it wasn't the UKSF. It was sort of like they were there. We were elsewhere, you know what I mean? And it was a totally different entity. But now you can just cross-pollinate. You can do what you like now. Do you know what I mean? You can actually, you can go on selection as a trooper and ask to go to Paul if you want to. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's very much integrated now. Yeah. It's funny because I've had SBS guys on the show and I'm expecting like the bootneck parter. There's a kind of character, isn't there, for each force? Is this just, you know, kind of archetypal or whatever the word is? And they've got their own language down there, haven't they? Yes. Well, the right language, don't they? The Marines being Navy have got their whole lingo thing going on anyway. And that's right. There's all Scran and Fredders and Harry Redpigs. So, it's weird when I talked to an SBS guy, I'm expecting him to be like from the bootnecks, but you can sort of tell there's just a different, almost like a different character, but I suppose that if you can all get on the end of the day, it's the main thing. What counts is what you do down the other end, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, what I'm getting at, Phil, could you say a word for people that I don't want people living their whole life thinking, oh, if only I joined the military, or if only I say, leave it behind, leave it be, you know, the military's not going to... Yeah, I would try to do it now or leave it alone. Do you know what I mean? It's just, you've got to make your mind up what you want to do, because otherwise, and I'm guilty of this, you know, I came out in the military, I chased around the circuit, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, I opened doors, I sort of like half looked around, I didn't, and it's like, it's a complete mess. You've got to try and make up in your own mind what you want to do, what do you want to do? And I remember a Sergeant Major told me, on one of the first things I ever did, and he said, if you can find something you enjoy, Phil, you'll never work again for the rest of your life, you know what I mean? And that's very true, you know, find something you enjoy, find something you want to do. I'm not saying there's going to be no hardship attached to that, because there is, but I enjoy the hard times, as much as I enjoy the easy times sometimes, you know, because it's what I want to do. And when people say, oh, the jungle was hard, it was extremely hard, it was extremely challenging, but I enjoyed it, it was great. I loved it, I learned something new every day. I did this, I did that, I did the other thing, I was cutting around like a proper soldier, you know what I mean? So if you were in the jungle and you didn't enjoy it, that would be a good time to stick around and go, I'll tell you, what about enough of this? You know what I mean? There's no pressure on anybody to do this sort of thing. It's the volunteer force. UKSF selection is volunteered from top to bottom, you know what I mean? Even says it on your medals, SAS in brackets, volunteer. Did any of your jungle training come into play in Sierra Leone, Phil? Well, yeah. I mean, it was a typical, you know, in the planning of that operation. But even then, you know, a lot of the stuff, a lot of the stuff we had written in the sort of like rule books, as they were, were completely out the window on that operation, didn't they? You know, we sort of turned up in two great helicopters and slapped back in the middle of the camp. My god knows what noise is getting in there and, you know, sorted it out that way. That's typically within the spirit of the way the regiment does things, you know what I mean? It's not interested in, it's interested in the solutions and the problem that it's got. It's not interested in, well, you've got to do it this way, you've got to do it that way, you've got to do it the other way. It's interested in, let's get this done, you know what I mean? And I think that's one of the things I've taken from the regiment when I got out. You know, let's not look at this, that and the other. Let's look at how we can get this problem done. Let's look at how we can fix something. Let's have a look at how we can make things work, as opposed to, oh, we can't do it because of that. We can't, you can spend your whole life making excuses or you can spend your whole life doing stuff. You know what I mean? That's the way it is, isn't it? You know? Yeah, I met up with a mate in the pub one night. I hadn't seen him for years and years and we were in Belfast together. And 89 in Belfast was quite what you call kinetic tour. There was lots of things going bang. I'll say this story a lot, but Jocky was tailing Charlie, so just behind me on patrol got shot three times. Bless him. He got up and finished the patrol, believe it or not, but that's the story for another day. But I won't say his first name, but a chap called Veal, who I don't know if that name means something to you. We shared a room together for when I met him in the pub. I said, how's it go? And he said, yeah, I've gone, gone SB again. I think he was always in and out. I think he was at ML before he went a mountain leader, before he joined SB. He said, yeah, I just got back from Sierra. I said, what was it like? He said, fucking hell, mate. He said, when I was in Belfast, I thought this is soldiering. He said, down there, it just said it was a wild westcrest. Absolutely insane. What really, that was the first time I did anything major, major, like, you know what I mean? And the thing that struck me immediately in that sort of combat situation is how everything changes in perspective. Do you know what I mean? The pound isn't worth a pound anymore. Do you know what I mean? It's not worth anything, in fact. You're not going to buy anything for a pound with a situation like that. You see what I mean? It's no use to man or beast. You know, in terms of sort of like, your own safety and your own think, well, you're now in a situation where the rules have completely changed. If I want to plunge something through your head, I'll plunge it through your head. At the same score, if you want to plunge something through mine, you'll plunge it through mine, do you know what I mean? And the rules of these normal rules and constraints that we live in, as normal people, are completely gone. Completely gone, do you know what I mean? There's no rules down there, is there at all? That's what really struck me really hard. It's like, actually, when a push becomes a shove, it is completely lawless. Even in Northern Ireland, once you've got into a sort of like, firefight or if you were contacted or blown up, once you've gone through what you were taught, actually it came straight back to normal really quickly, didn't it? Do you know what I mean? You were governed. There was that, you know, you can't go in that house and kick someone's head. Didn't know you can't, do you know what I mean? But, you know, it's their own. The rules weren't there. You know, obviously, you've got the Geneva Convention and you sort of have those constraints, but the normal rules from which every day life exists for us here aren't there anymore. And I found that so many different emotions about that. In some ways, I found it liberating. I thought, you know, this is great, you know what I mean? In other ways, I thought, this is actually, wow, this is actually anything that happened to me here, do you know what I mean? It's like, so there's a lot of mixed emotion about stuff like that. Your body in the typical operation like that goes through so many different feelings in one day, it's unbelievable. You know, you're in the Glad to Be Alive Club if you come out the other side. There's the sort of like, the bit before, when you're sort of like, oh, you've got a little bit disco leg, perhaps on the helicopter, that's what I've been thinking about it. There's the bit where you're sort of like, you're absolutely fuming, you're going through, you're absolutely focused and dead set on your orders of thinking, what am I going next? Where am I going? You know, I had a lot of anger when I found out that Brad had been killed. I'm like, you bastards, give me another one. Like, do you know what I mean? Let me have someone else. There's so many emotions in one day, but at the end of that day, you were absolutely, you know what I mean? So, you know, when you talk about, and I've never really done it at that level, when you talk about these guys, you know, when I went to Syria, and I went on that front line, and these guys have been doing that for 48 days non-stop when I got there, 48 days, 48 days of that every day. Not being in the Glad to Be Alive Club, perhaps at the end of it, do you know what I mean? Stealing with all sorts during the day, all those emotions. I mean, by the end of a stint on there, you were, you could proper say you'd been to work like, you know what I mean? That's a proper stint there, isn't it? Yes. And Sierra Leone, it's not just the, it's not just the attack, is it? I mean, it's some serious stuff went down there. I mean, these, on the TV, they called them the West Side Boys, didn't they? To call them something else, actually, was probably more derogatory than actually calling them what they wanted to be called in the first place, you know what I mean? That was political correctness on a different level, wasn't it? Yes, exactly. BBC sugarcoating it, as always. And they were a bit mental, weren't they? I mean, they recruited, they forced people into that militia from a young age. Yeah, absolutely. They were caught in this thing whereby a lot of them had committed crimes elsewhere, a lot of them had done this, a lot of them have fought one side, some of them have been trained by the British at one station, some of them have been in the RUF, some of them are defective from here. So you had a hot melting pot of absolutely everybody in that country contained within that horseshoe was absolute lunacy, like, do you know what I mean? Riddle with these people giving themselves names like, you know, colonel, drop dead, and all this sort of ridiculous things that they call themselves in that, do you know what I mean? Just absolute beggars' belief what was going on in there really. And, you know, an environment where you think, you know, this is anything can happen. You know, I was making packs of friends of mine that basically said, if this does come on top and we lose this and you see me getting dragged off, well, just make sure you save one for me and slap me in the head before I go like, do you know what I mean? Because I don't want to be dragged through West Africa used as an ashtray for six months and become someone's spittoon for another six months before they kill me in a gruesome way, do you know what I mean? I actually took my Leatherman's out, my belt kicked, I thought if I do get caught, I'm not having somebody playing about with that, do you know what I mean? Yes, yes. Was it Foden Kassei was their leader? Foden Kalle. Foden Kalle, who went to prison, got back out again and is now a devout Christian in the centre of Freetown. Well, that tells us a lot, doesn't it? That fucking, we could have avoided that defamulation, bloody hell. Yeah, he's a devout Christian now. I think he might be a minister of some description and he knocks about in Freetown somewhere. I was hoping to go and interview him, I wanted to make a documentary over in, and we had it all teed up, but the Covid absolutely knocked it sideways, so I don't know, maybe I'll get the plan resurrected again one day and go over there and meet a few of these people. Because Moosa's still about, Moosa's still, I think he went up the ranks, Moosa did. He was the corporal that was in the Sin Bin in the village, I mean, he got some treatment that Giza did. And I've never seen somebody smiling as much in my whole life when they got him out of that pit. He really was the happiest man alive and he'd had some proper treatment, he had, they'd been through the mill. Yeah, there was, yeah, yeah, there's still a lot of people cutting them out over there. And I've got a friend who does palm oil over there. He employs quite a few people, he says everybody claims to have been there and all that sort of stuff, you know what I mean? It's like the Badge of Honor over there, it's like, you know, I was there. That's their balcony, you know what I mean? Phil, social media and the media, it's come at a good time in your life, hasn't it? It's all come good for you. It has, but I'm going to tell you now, it's not what I want to do. I don't like doing it. And in terms of what happened to me at Sky News, I was bullied at Sky News. This is insane. I was actually picked on at Sky News. We made such a good job at that big Phil's war that the likes of Alex Crawford and who's that other one, Ramsay, complained about it. Why are you using him? Why haven't you sent us? And I said to Aimee and Holmes, didn't I? I said to Aimee and Holmes, you know, when you watch football, when you watch your pandit on television, who would you soon have listened to? Someone who's played football, like, say, Gary Linnick or Alan Shearer, or somebody who's talked about football. I said it makes sense to have somebody who's done it. So when it's a war zone, it's no different, is it? Would you soon have listened to the guy that's been there, seen it, done it, understands his way around, knows how to talk to the troops, or would you soon have seen a person that's got their body armour on, ill-fitting their helmet over here somewhere, you know, cutting about, you know, going, oh, it's an explosion. No, no, it's not an explosion. That's sort of like, that's a mile away, do you know what I mean? And I just, you know, it was to my own detriment. I think I did too good a job for them, because they all sort of like edged me out in the end, farmed me out to that program called The Pledge and then upended me a little bit, do you know what I mean? So, yeah. Yeah, you've got the personality to carry it off, because a lot of ex-minutes, you don't like the limelight at all, do they? They won't even come on a podcast. No, I'm quite happy talking. I'm quite happy, you know, doing this sort of stuff. I can do it. I'd like to say it wouldn't be my choice, number one choice job, but, you know, you've got to do what you've got to do, haven't you? Realistically now, I mean, I'm the same shape as an egg. I shouldn't really be cutting around, doing too much on battlefields, although I have been out of the Ukraine, since this all started. But, you know, I kept myself within my limitations and within my capabilities, should I say, do you know what I mean? So, yeah. Yeah, and what's the, what do you do on shift? Did you sort of presentations and stuff? Right. So, when I did the cruise line, as I do a series of talks from sort of like talking about my, I talk about both of my books, of course, I do it, I do a presentation on, on battlefielders and who dares wins. I then talk about, I do an anti-piracy presentation. I do, I do an Iraq presentation and Afghanistan presents. So, all the, all the things that I've done, once I've done the sort of like main introduction speech, I then break them down. You know, typically a cruise, I'll give a bit of, I'll deliver about eight talks. And they're all quite fun, to be honest. I try and keep them quite light-hearted. I've got a bit of media goes with it. I've got a bit of this out in the oven, do you know what I mean? And it's quite, they're quite good fun. And do you, you got to meet some great people, haven't you? I've been really lucky, I mean, you know, to have people like, you know, a class bear as a friend, how do you know what I mean? And, you know, I've met some extremely famous people, you know, I've been lucky, but you know, I've met some extremely cool people who aren't famous whatsoever as well, do you know what I mean? And I think that's, you know, when I think, some of the coolest people I've met on the planet, you know, with the original SAS guys, of which there's very few of them left now, and you would speak to them, I could never, ever get enough time with them, do you know what I mean? I would divert anything. I would, I would, I would rap on a TV interview all day to get 10 minutes with an SAS veteran of that caliber, do you know what I mean, of the originals? You know, Rocky Blake, people like that, unbelievable stories I had to tell, and I could sit with them for hours, you know what I mean? And all right, you know, Stardom doesn't really impress me, never has, do you know what I mean? I do know a lot of famous people, you know, but some of the best people I've met in my life have been these veterans that I've met, you know, like Rocky and the absolute, absolute diamonds of the earth, do you know what I mean? Down the earth, talked to you, no pretense about them, absolutely, you know, proper people, proper people. Well, that's the thing that would surprise a lot of people about SAS troopers is when you meet them, they're so down to earth, it's, it's, yeah, it's nice. The regimental ethos mentions, you know, humility, and it's a massive, I think it's a massive part of humility. I'd probably stray wide of that bracket, sometimes when I appear on these TV programs and whatever, you know, you could say, you know, but I don't ever, I don't, you know, I'll correct someone if they call me a hero, I don't like that sort of thing, do you know what I mean? But it's the way I make my money now, so, you know, I've stepped into a world that now I've got to follow through, you know, but, yeah, there is some tremendously humble guys within that organisation, tremendously humble guys. Yes, yes. And I feel personally privileged to have served alongside and to have met many of them, you know, when I think that, you know, I've met people who, you know, the big thing when I was a kid, the great big thing was Iranian embassy, do you know what I mean? And when I think that, and I sat down and drank with loads of guys who were there now, do you know what I mean? I think to myself, that's just, you have to pinch yourself. To me, that's like a small kid meeting like David Beckham or someone, do you know what I mean? Just for me, meeting people of that calibre, who you can sit down and have a conversation with on the same level, because you've sort of like, you've achieved something similar, you know, we've both passed the election. That's the crazy thing to do, do you know what I mean? And when you're a young soldier and you're aspiring to do stuff like that, you never think that door will ever open to you, you'll never think, I'll never, but yeah, the belief to get to that stage is what's kept me going, you know? Yeah, it's a funny old thing. I mean, I'll, probably like a lot of kids are watching you, the, I don't say kid, I can't remember what I was, but what's the Iranian embassy see, John Talley, like everybody did, and here I am all these years later, chatting to people like Robin Horse, Svalin, and it's, yeah, what I'm trying to say, folks, is it's nice to be, it's nice to be, I'll say in the media, because that sounds like celebrity, what I mean is it- Do you know what? It's really nice to be able to pass on those, you know, I did an interview with Chris Ryan. Great interview, do you know what I mean? We had a great laugh, it's like, when you're in a position like yourself, Chris, you know, where you can actually sort of pass that on to other people, it's great, isn't it? Because people can sit down and watch this and go, well, you know, I haven't had a chance to meet these people, but I am getting a chance to watch people interact with each other with no bullshit, no strings attached, you know what I mean? None of this sort of like, hi, I'm so and so, that's bollocks, I'm not, I'm Phil, you know? So that's why these bug cards, I think, are great, because you get the real deal out the purse, there's no pretence, you know, I'm not making anything up here, I'm acting this out, do you know what I mean? This wasn't scripted, this wasn't Sky News, what I cut out, what I say, and edit things out that they don't like, yeah, so yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah, I get people say, Chris, what do I need to prepare? What are you going to interview? I said, don't do interviews mate, it's a chat between oppos. Do you prepare when you go and have a pint in the naffy? No, that's it, you know, you just sit down and have a chat, don't you? I love chatting to people anyway, so yeah, this sort of thing I really like, and you know, with the fourth radio stuff now, you know, that will expand into something that we do a lot more of myself, do you know what I mean? And I'll get people onto the show and things, and yeah, I really enjoy it, I really, I am enjoying that side of life, meeting people, that is one of the perks of the job, you know, I'll get to meet some really cool people, so yeah, that's fun. Phil, if it's all right, I'm just going to take a moment to promote an evening that I've got upcoming. It suddenly hit me in a hazy blur the other morning as I was waking up, but I've met some incredible veterans from the Falklands conflict. We've chronicled some just legendary tales that would otherwise be lost to history, so we're going to do a talk night, friends, most likely in Birmingham, we'll be looking at chaps like Nigel Spud, Eli, Tupara, SAS, who was at Goose Green, we've got John Mu, who went down on the Coventry, I believe it was, I was getting my ships messed up, mixed up. We've got Captain Robert Lawrence, MC, who got shot through the head on Tumble Down. Some people will remember him from the film, the BBC did. We just want a good evening, relaxed, drinking hand, taking questions from the audience, so stay tuned, everyone. It's probably going to be the 28th of May. Phil, there's obviously an open invitation for you to come along. I know quite a few of them guys there. The room put from Tumble Down, Rob, he's a great guy. He's proper funny. He really is. He makes me laugh. He's all right. He's always trying to borrow money, though, Phil, you know. He's got more money than God. So, yes, and Jeff Williams, one of my marines brothers, hello, Jeff. He's just chatting to him this morning. He was 4-2 commando on, was it Harriet and Mount Ken? Yeah, I know Jeff as well. Yeah, he's done a lot of work for the veterans' mental health. A lot of charity stuff. Yeah, a lot of charity stuff. Yeah. Well, that's where we met, Phil. I don't know if you remember it. It was one of the Al Blackman, well, not charity, but charity in a way. We met in Parliament Square, one of those times. I still got the cardboard cut out of Al Blackman. He's in my shed. I want to give it to the Marines Museum or something like that. He's in my shed. Al Blackman's in my shed. And he's there as Kate. Friends at home, Jeff was an absolute powerhouse in the Marine A, freeing Marine A basically after he shot this Taliban fighter and was in prison for it. And Jeff had this cardboard cut out of Marine A and he used to take it all around the country to get people to have a selfie with it to promote the campaign. Well, I was there on the final one where they said he was going to be let free. And Jeff got minging. I've got pretty stable. And he went, I'll just take it home and give it to me next time we save it. I've probably not seen him since, I don't think. And I certainly don't think that cut out would be anywhere. And, right, let's finish off, Phil. I know you're a busy man. Let's get this book promoted to you. First book was Born Fearless, obviously. I've been reading Who Dares Wins this morning. I've certainly read. What book's that, mate? What book's that? That's it. That's the one. There we go. Who Dares Wins. And don't fall by the cover. It's really about mental health and my mindset. It's not Who Dares Wins, the title, really was... Because that's how I feel about some of the stuff I've done in my life. Not because it was the regimental motto, like, do you know what I mean? It was how I felt. Yes. Yes. I'm always saying you get one life. You know, if you live it right, one's enough, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't turn down and have one, to be honest. Well, mate, you'll live on vicariously through all your works and all the great message you put out to young people. So massive thank you. Phil, stay on the line so I can thank you properly, but we'll put all friends, we'll put all Phil's links below. So you can follow him on social media. You can buy these cracking books. Um, et cetera, et cetera. But Phil, massive thank you, brother. Really, really kind you come on the show. Oh, thanks for having me on. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. I've enjoyed it. It's been a good show. I was going to talk about your boxing, but we'll take that next time. But you can do that another day. We can do that another day. I'll die out. Until I get this egg off the front of my body, I ain't boxing anybody. But I have put a thing together for Jake Paul. And it's gone through Frank Warren, who's Jake Paul's promoter in this country. And hopefully, hopefully, I'll get a shot at him. Whoa. I've got a mate. I've got a mate, a boot-neck mate who's, um, who's, uh, Ryan. People will know. I've offered him out. I've also offered out Ross Kemp and all. I think Ross Kemp needs to step up to the plate. I want to go, Ross, if you're watching this. I want you. Yes, mate. He actually was in the SES, though, wasn't he, Ross Kemp? Yeah, he was. Yeah, of course he was. He was on the balcony on every rope going and... He's hard. He told me. He is. He is. Yes. Phil, massive thank you again to everybody. Oh, much love to you all. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Bought Let's Eat Your Podcast. Hope to see many of you on this, on the 28th of May. And if you'd like and subscribe, that would be really kind. See you.