 Couldn't tell you anything about the characters or the story, but it was so it was fun to play well Hopefully they make a gears adaptation. That's really good right in TV or meet movies That's gonna be it's gonna be cool and fun and not so I think Microsoft Microsoft own shooters in terms of their Show adaptations, they got a pretty good track record so far. So I think that's you know, it's reasonable to to say Lies When she talks about love or something Then I will destroy you Oh, that's such a that line chills me to the bone it does it makes me quiver with Yeah One day we'll only speak in references Thus, it'll be a different language Our lives will turn into dharmak. Is that what you're saying? That will be our life An alien species will be like I just got to watch all of their media and then I will understand them All right, and you gave us a watch together You've given us a watch together link moller. What what deviousness have you planned for us? It's a thing on the the studio just pops into the screen saying now would be a good time to have ads Thanks No, I wouldn't we just started two seconds ago Those youtube though, you know that they mean every second would be a good time to have ads That's what they're talking about What if you ran ads right now? It's a great time. It's like no, it isn't you're a liar You're a dad. By the way, um I have I guess I never noticed it before but youtube has like a whole section of movies that are free with ad breaks in them so um My folks at home have been using that to watch all kinds of different movies and they have A they have a really big library. So as far as I know it comes with youtube YouTube's YouTube just has this big list of movies you can watch uh if you can you know stand ads every once in a while But not a bad. Um, what is it called free with ads movies? um How do I find the oh, I think you click on Free oh youtube movies and tv is the channel and then they have browse and free with ads and they have all sorts of stuff They have they have the they have a season of classic pop I from 1960 They have the ghost stories english dub. Oh my goodness. Yes Oh fringy they have all 16 seasons of red vs blue. That's interesting What's the gut on here? People say they like that we do it in a nifaf suicide squad No, it's called the fate of it. We're just we're just gonna talk about where it is right now Okay, because it's it's funny, but we'll do that later for now. We're talking about the other thing in the title Good lord. All right. All right. Give us a chance um Which to be fair we may as well just get into uh, you all you all know This is this this is this funny thing that we do sometimes where we we look at like the rest of the world's perspective on what's wrong with the mcu um You guys know as well as we do that the problem is the horrific writing and the horrible sort of approach to script writing basically like the The respect of the craft is gone And that everyone wants to create a really grand narrative about exactly what the problem is and they come up with all kinds of crazy ideas They have the the key to the success of the mcu of only they would listen to you But yeah, like hiring the wrong writers People with no experience and then people who don't respect the process and they're not spending much time on it And they're not having a script to start before you go All the foundational stuff that just crashes and boons everything they've done it over and over again we have all the information to reflect it all the uh The videos that i've done on Dr. Strange and quantum mania they dig into like the assembled and all behind the scenes stuff and you just get quotes that are really I think made to indicate that there's a passion And uh, wow, we did this even though we did this and then you're like, oh wow, you did that and then they're like Well, no, I mean in a great that we made something so cool despite You're like Probably revealed too much there Especially when knowing the only thing from disney that we've very much like unequivocally enjoyed and considered pretty damn good Is the thing that we found out was redrafted several times In recent years. I mean, of course, so it's kind of funny. But thus, uh, it's relatively simple for us But we've got a video. This was recommended by Uh, well, I guess I could say the the efap community to an extent and so we're gonna check it out It's called the five things marvel can do to save the mcu Now, okay, dear kevin Yes, that's the yeah, but what I was going to say will be fun. Uh, this is this is a good old-fashioned Core efap host episode right no no disgusting guests ruining everything just no distractions Yeah, we have uh fringy and rags and you have to you will do five each Maybe that makes more sense because I don't want to make you fucking stay forever But you've got to do separate ones one at a time guesses for what will be in this list And then we'll see we'll give you points according Okay, so five things marvel can do to save the mcu. Yeah, what do you imagine will be in this video? What would what would the video like this say? Yeah, what was this video's opinion going to be as to how to save the mcu? Um, I'm gonna go ahead and guess less to no multiverse going forward will be part of the equation Okay rags your turn I think god, I'm half on half on whether I want to say the literal opposite of that of more multiverse just do it right Um, but I'm gonna go with more More references to the comics Okay, um, yeah some of these like say for example, he said be more faithful Uh, would that count or would you say that's a different thing? um Maybe depends on what he maybe uses as a reference, but probably like more more Yeah being more faithful to the comic origins comic book origins and stories All right X-Men x-men Okay, right I'm gonna go with more cameos More like interconnectivity between movies in regards to characters. So like characters Being in other people's movies not having movies be like one person's solo acts that focus on them But we need to have more, um, I guess bleed through in terms of when characters show up Bring your number three uh, I would imagine that he's gonna say that there needs to be a Clearer overarching narrative structure like like that Like that kind of well in the same way that there kind of was an overarching structure leading up to Thanos My guess is that he's gonna say that we need like a proper overarching structure Okay rags your number three classic costumes That's a good guess before any number four Okay, so fourth one, um uh, hmm less tv shows Interesting rags number four Um Wait, is it is it Didn't kevin himself say that so hasn't already been said as part of the plan He might say it anyway Bob auger said that less okay projects in general Oh bob it Oh, if I was him and I was looking at it What would I say that they should do Maybe we need to have less less injected comedy Less out of place comedy or more tonal consistency That's fair bringing you a lost one Oh, and I will get bonus points if he specifically mentions um, uh I'm blanking out on his name the avengers writer, um Joss Whedon helped me Joss Whedon if he specifically mentions Joss Whedon I get a bonus point Um, I like how you've just ordained this extra world like you get a bonus point Where I have no bonus bonus points backed into my like Uh answers you gotta seize those opportunities to make up the rules as you go Well, I suppose my fifth answer is going to be something to do with CGI something like less CGI Is a general umbrella. I don't know how he's going to convey it specifically But my guess will be that there will be criticisms of CGI that ultimately amount to either less of it or it needs to be better Real costumes probably because I had said like more authentic costumes like classic costumes But yours is yours would be a good one for like if he said Like actual costumes not having everything CGI'd on faces and things like that. So yeah, I'm guessing that's a good one That'll be my number five What does that leave me? What would he say? That's the thing because we would say dumb stuff like well written characters and plot lines That makes sense, you know crap like that. So what would he say? What do people want people want, um Something to do with hiring Particular like No, maybe he's gonna say stop hiring Super famous actors and hire people who care more about the or only hire people who care about the comics Only hire people who really care about superheroes. Don't just hire people who don't care about the about the stuff All right, and that is five for each of you. Is there any sense that you need? Is there any sense that you'd like to change your answers, but you can't copy the other persons? I will say I would never have guessed uh rags is number five I don't think he would I don't think he'd have any perspective on like who the actors are that would be my assumption Whoever they are is whatever Maybe I can't really remember You know comic books or not. I think he might do that for like writers Maybe writers and directors, but I don't think maybe yeah Maybe can I can I make that fifth one sort of like a general overall have more well? I started already kind of did that I offered you you could both change your answers. Just don't yeah I think I might change my fifth one. I'd have to think what what would be said um I'm trying to think of older movies and kind of things that made those Maybe okay um I think his number five will be to don't be afraid of being Experimental and kind of trying new ideas. Do you think he'd say that? Maybe I can't really remember nando that much. What was the last thing we covered from him? Oh, well the thing is I don't remember very well either. I'm just Well, he just blends in with the general like yeah, yeah, that's the only ever talk about like marvel and dc for the most part like that's kind of I'm gonna go with that though I think he's gonna say try you know be experimental Don't be afraid to try some like new tones like try a horror movie try like a mystery You know themed kind of movie, you know try you know be be experimental try new things You know break free of the the formula. Yeah, it's a break free of the formula Yeah, okay, could be could be I don't want to change mine. I'm I'm locked in I'm curious see it will be a curious adventure to see what we go the marvel is what we're dealing with here Again, it always is funny the idea of like five things because there really is one thing which is you need better scripts You need you need to you need to respect the script process simple as that Yes, you need to have some amount of you because of course the umbrella under that is finish your scripts before you start production Redraft don't don't write it in a week. Like maybe spend a little bit more time Maybe don't have set pieces as the guiding structure for your every single film that you make Like the the ones that have already been figured out and and uh pre-biz You know stuff like that have let the writers talk to each other so that they know what the other one is So that they could maintain some semblance of consistency And then other things that would be adjacent to it is maybe get people who give a shit like don't get people who Oh, I don't really know anything about the comics Or alternatively people, you know, you can get people who say why didn't know anything about the comics? And then I read a bunch of them just so that I had some familiarity with the character and the mythos things like that You guys excited to find out Uh, yeah, no, I'm I'm actually I'm I'm cute. Well, it's funny. I sound curious, but it's more so just the bingo card Yeah, well, that's the interesting element I well, I won't say anything because like I said, I know it's five, but we'll we'll see who wins who gets the most The marvel cinematic universe is in trouble and I know I like this by the way already because it's like, yeah, no shit It's um in trouble is putting it lightly They were in trouble back at black widow I wonder if I look through nando's uh A video list how far we'd have to go back before he Was really starting to get critical and got with the picture Uh, I think that the first time that people were starting to get critical was Thor Love and thunder And it was a slow trickle from there. Yeah, and that's the number on the moonlight had a bit of a drop off That was quick at the end On it That was on because that was 2022 But because it was it was more so the reason why it saw Phil's noteworthy is because That was the first time that there was a negative reception when it came out Not two weeks later not a month later not two months later It was when it came out people were unhappy with it These kinds of videos are so behind in the conversation. Like I said 2019 we're talking about the trouble that the mcu is in Because we you know, they're lagging. Yeah, you're like the plans are awful What they're going to be releasing but the you know, maybe they could be good in execution Then of course they weren't as they came out But also like the legal trouble with black widow the stuff with covet and it's released fucking it up And it was like and then what it was in black widow itself And it was like and then all the stuff would do with the blip and how all the stories were Unthreading like completely when was uh, when was Loki again? Uh, that was like the third project. So I think that was like the middle of 2021 Yeah, so because that was the we were like always dead Fuck It's it's like The iceberg has already been struck and you're like well the boat's still on the water. So we're all good It's like oh, but it's like a fatal blow. It's uh, it's it's going down. It's like, yeah But we're still above water and it's it's like now that the tip is starting to like go down Believe the waters. We're like, oh, shit. I think we're in a bit of trouble here Those are I mean like they'll say the mcu is dead when like there's no more movies coming out They'll be like, oh my god. Well, it's already really bad when you're in a place that you've had Two out of three of your films this year were not profitable One of them was um a dramatic failure and the television shows have also not been successful this year What were the ones because secret invasion came out this year? What was he? Oh, yeah, Loki which had like what a 40% lower viewership than season one bill Don't forget at least from the premiere. What was the other one? Well, what do you mean? We just watched it Oh, no, that's this year. Oh, right. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. Um, but yeah, sure We could throw that in it. What was the other one last year? Was it just secret invasion? Was that the first one? Do you even think Over at marvel they they like looking to remember echo or have it written down or anything? It's like that wasn't that was a joke. We thought that out as a joke. It was yeah, they threw that shit out to die Oh Yeah, I don't remember. I mean the fact we can't remember is It's weird because I remember all the star wars shows as odd as that like sounds But I remember all the star wars shows, but I but the the mcu ones really seem like they just I'll give it to you. I do as well But the the it's absolutely the opposite of any kind of like fond element that makes me remember them, right? It's like, oh, yeah, it's not because yeah, they're just for some reason I just find them more like memorable. I don't think well star wars doesn't cross into doing what marvel has done yet Right, right? They haven't they haven't made an actual show called like blimpsky And it's just this character in the background. It's like they haven't actually done that star wars yet I guess I guess what's interesting is that and or Could have been Well, that is funny actually you're making a show based on a um One of the characters in an ensemble cast for one movie But because it was so good It cancelled out Yeah, that's what everyone was saying and I don't think that's unfair that's like, why would you make a show based on a character? I don't think it's really anyone knows Exactly. Well, it's part of what would have helped, you know, not give any coverage of that show That's this would have been yeah, you know, it's just a pragmatic thing I guess it's the the the point would be that if echo was really good It would have had the possibility to essentially um escape the the situation that it was in A being based on a really obscure character that like the vast majority of people haven't heard of Well, I guess so and all being nothing marvel show handle being praised and recommended is a meme like within the star wars community That it's like, oh, yeah, there's and or fans. They'll be doing that for echo, you know Productions for the last like three four years Where are the like, oh you guys you've really got to see Loki. It's like the end or you know marvel How much of that is happening really due to they said the secret invasion was going to be the end or marvel Yeah, that was that was hilarious. Oh look, it's grounded. It's by the way, we're seeing this Something else No, so they said it was they said that one was grounded and gritty because remember the strategy was Ant-Man is really important that was the strategy and then guardians was you know, it's the last one It's the last one. It's the last one James Gunn. It's the last one And then secret invasion was it's gritty. It's grounded. It's dark. Oh, and then the marvels was it's fun. It's fun It's fun. It's fun. It's a lot of fun. You're having so much fun. I'd have fun with this one Unusual, I know The first person to say it's not a disaster and I do think that's true Many articles. No, no, it's it's a disaster. What what metric is it not a disaster? Like there's so many Financially it's a disaster right now. This is the worst case scenario for them They've been releasing shit tons that are not making like some of them money This is like this is well, I bear in mind bear in mind the amount of crazy stuff that's happening behind the scenes dead of all It's being completely like reworked completely to some extent massively reworked and overhauled Um, I'm pretty sure they're reshooting like half of the new captain american movie at this point Like that that film was gone. I thought it was even more than that like because they've got this switching out When they like done and then they said it was like As I understand it, it's like they're switching out like one of the main like groups in the in the film Like the open society the the captain american bad guys like that they're switching them out And it's like dude, what you shot the movie like I mean, you just got to completely change it And then of course the marvels got heavy reshoots and man got heavy Strange got heavy reshoots like like unusually heavy And it was Loki. Loki was unique in that it had no reshoots season two that it was unique It was like the first marvel project in like years that didn't have reshoots I can believe that because when we were watching it, um, it did seem to have some deliberate artistry to it. Um Fucking no nothing made sense totally non-sensical the character sucked balls But there was clearly work that was put into the cinematography and like spoilers. They haven't seen our Loki coverage yet That's coming out now. It's coming out. Yeah But yes, true. I don't know you look at this year It's like they are now in a position that they absolutely didn't want to be in which is they got one movie coming out this year They got one movie and in terms of their shows. What is that agatha? That's like the other one that they got coming out this year That's awful They want they want three movies a year and like three cv shows a year. That's what they want Yeah, they can't do that one again That was like so we agree financially and like logistically the functionality of the mc disaster is like what else is there critically Like it's pretty disastrous, dude There's uh Nobody's talking everyone talks about the glory days of phase one two and three nobody talks about how phase four or five already good That's just not a thing. Um, most people begrudgingly have to be like, okay, fine I guess, you know, thula and thunder. Yeah, bad moon. Okay, bad quanta mania. Yeah, bad, but I mean Black Panther 2 was really good. It's like, no it wasn't It just it was awful. So this is like, oh fucking fine No way home just like yeah, but no way home doesn't really represent much of a flotation device for the mcu, does it? Um, not with more and more awareness of how everything happens behind the scenes. So I don't know. I'm just trying to think what is the metric and if it's just well, I enjoyed them like, okay I guess I guess that's not a disaster in that way videos tend to really sensationalize things when in reality I think marvel isn't doing great, but the fact that they finally had one genuine flop doesn't mean the whole studio Okay, okay. This is mega cone. This is one genuine flop. What do we call a movie? A man didn't make his money back. It didn't or the marvels are almost He was talking about marvels. Yeah, he was talking about marvels and and and and was not profitable Is he one of those people that's like as long as the Number is bigger on box office that it is on budget on ibtb that is why yeah And of course again to have the regular conversation that we have to keep having companies really care about opportunity cost If you're spending 200 million dollars and you're making 400 million dollars And you could have instead split that 200 million into four movies that collectively made a lot more money than that There's a you're not doing well It's not essentially a reason why dc completely reset their whole universe Well, yeah black adam. I think might have actually just been profitable Maybe but it's like that's not good enough. It's not good enough at this point They don't just want to be able to pay off The amount that they invested into any given film. They want to make money They want to make a lot of money They want to make the money that they used to make on these marvel films where regardless of Like how the floor was like 600 million dollars and the ceiling was you know, like three billion dollars. That's what they want Yeah, uh It's uh to say the marvels is like the only genuine flop ever like so what does jet you would be doing great? I guess the fact that they finally I guess it was well genuine means the whole studio is done for however and But the thing is I don't think anybody's saying because the marvels flop that the studio is done for is like Well, no, it's because of all of what's happened Well, I feel like the marvels is just a symptom I think I mean, you know, you could you could tie it up in the broader Subject of you know superhero movie fatigue if that's what we want to call it of uh Superhero films in general are doing worse now than they they were before across the board DC and marvel like because of course last year was I um, I think uh acriman ended up actually making more money than black adam It ended up actually. Oh, yeah, it didn't do it still didn't do it's it's like less than half of what the first movie made But um, but otherwise, I mean god damn like looks like uh, Aquaman 2 is made 424 million worldwide Yeah, which is not good for a 200 million dollar budget and it's not good compared to a billion dollars But it's better than every dc film since Aquaman 1 Which is funny damn But but obviously, you know the flash was one of the biggest box office bombs of all time And that was like ultra leaning into the era of this era of superheroes and multi guys and everything The audience's perspective on superhero stuff, which is is it worth my time? And they've decided no Which is no Gonna hurt one of the big problems that they have is that they've they've still got several movies And their Avengers movies are meant to be multiverse and really The multiverse is kind of like where the stuff that they can still leverage that they didn't create exists But at the same time We're already at a point where you say multiverse and people like uh jesus I mean fuck like it's part of the strategy for marketing madame web. It's like yeah, it's standalone. It's standalone It's standalone. It's like I think you're lying. I don't think that's true I think this is a multiverse film Are the people we're making videos about how is like dakota johnson just she knows what this is everyone knows Yeah, she clearly doesn't like it or want to be a part of it Which is really funny That's just funny that you it could just be that obvious that your lead actress doesn't want to be a part of this Yes, that's gonna be a fascinating bit of bit of sludge To see what what they've done with that. It's gonna it looks like it's gonna make less money than morbius Oh Given feige I got your letter that was just a bunch of exclamation points and I want to help So I'm going to give you advice. Yes. This is going to be one of those five things And this is not the first time we've covered videos like this It's always It's always crazy wacky ideas that wouldn't actually solve the problem, but he says it will so let's give it a shot Save the mcu videos, but unlike some of the others This is not going to be one of those videos with vague obvious advice Like write the movies better or spend more time making them or It hurts. I mean more time making them So those two things would help when someone shoots themselves in the face and then they like can you advise me on how to not die? If you're like, oh, don't don't shoot yourself and then like well, that's pretty generic advice Like yeah, but you're doing it. But that's what you're doing If if like if it's so obvious. Why aren't they doing it? That's like you need to pound this into their heads if they spent more time working on these films That would just give them more time to fix problems It's like I think people treat this generate more problems visual effects possibly but then there's a lot of stuff The idea that you have a script, which they don't even do by the way They don't even have a script when they start filming but let's pretend they did Well, they have a script eventually They wouldn't be any point in redrafting it because whatever we kind of will figure it out as we go And it's like no just redraft something once And then look back on all the changes you made and how you didn't have those before and now you do Swear to god. I've been saying this for years It's like just do a redraft and you will then know the value of redrafting Please just try it one time. I beg you It can be boring sure it can seem like a waste of time, but you can pay people to do it Ain't that nuts? Yeah, you can hire some cool day writer That'd be crazy and yeah, so if someone said like yeah, that's pretty vague advice I realized this is the advice they need. I'm not even kidding. We can get specific Well, we can start off by saying yeah, you need to write better and then we can get into the bullet points of do this do this do this do this do this do this There's no point talking about like characteristics of heroes and villains and arcs to go on when you're not even writing Like we've got to get you in the in the building first. I can't tell you which room to go to We need to agree that that is such a thing as a good script and you need to understand what that looks like It's absolutely insane because he's pretending as though The script writing process is as intact as you'd imagine it is but all we know is that it's not they don't really have a script writing process No, the the process is figure it out as you go along while we The executives of marvel have ordained set pieces that you need to adhere to And also you don't get to talk to each other about like where your story leads and how it fits into the bigger picture Someone said his point is that everyone else already said it. So why would he just repeat that? No, his point was that that's too vague I've things marvel can do to save the mcu is what he's doing here. Don't create the points for him He said he's a big boy. He said that's too vague. It's not it's not helpful enough Spend more time. I mean, it's a little vague, but I mean it points you in a direction Which is the amount of time you're spending making these films increase it Yeah, just allow yourself more time to work on But they called Michael Waldron least For mom they told him like, yeah, write the thing you have a week or whatever And then they told him to scrap it which he did and then they said, all right, we've already started filming Can you get in and help us? Write stuff Yeah, like if you if it takes longer and it's just like hey, you got one month to write a script That's better than zero months to write a script Or alternatively hey visual effects workers in the in the mains in the dungeons toiling in the dungeons You have a few more months to work on the shots What's what's funny about that too is like oh, so the problem was the not you didn't give Michael Waldron enough time It's like well, unfortunately I don't know that given him any more time would have solved the problem because he you then need a writer that knows what they're doing All you would have done is maybe had a terrible movie that looked better I presume a redrafted Michael Waldron script is better than a single draft Michael Waldron script because But if he comes into shooting knowing what he's going to do with the third act, that's got to be better Yeah, like how do I get normally when you leave on a journey it helps to know what your destination is? Yes, inside of just well, I'll be wherever I land up Don't overwork the cg artist. This is not the end of that would be that would be a good thing to do That would help from like Yeah, the moral thing to do would be to yes just speaking on that level Like what are we supposed to do with that one late? Well, but yes. Yeah, uh, the funny thing is people If we made a top five things model can do the save the mcu number one would be the right and stuff But the other four would probably include stuff like this like yeah with cg give it the time it needs and the space it needs Like otherwise your movies are going to suffer forever Yeah, the movie aesthetics. They are a part of your movie. It is a you know, definitely has a visual component to it It is a motion picture. So it needs to look good. You want it to look good It can only help you if it looks good In the winter soldier, I have specific issues that can be addressed directly and measured within a few years I'm also not wow, dude. This is pretty sweet. Then we I'm curious if you guys will be correct now Look, look Magneto is going. Yeah. Whoo. I'm excited. See him there. He is He's going. Yeah. I'm excited to hear your ideas. My cops has given him the salute Oh, he's got all the are the x-men from the animated series there by the looks of it Neato Jean and there's Wolverine. There's gambit. There's uh rogue and Cyclops Who's the one on the second you left? Who's second? Is that Jean Grey? Oh, that's that's Jean. Yeah, Jean Grey Jean? Yeah, like Jean Luc Picard Jean Luc Picard is her teacher Say stuff like give the directors word control because we don't you already know I do But I've forgotten exactly which I know one of his points because he spends a long time on them But I've kind of forgotten which ones specifically tried that and it didn't work Phase four was pretty give the directors more control. I feel like yeah, that one's an entire discussion the whole Give them give directors more creative control. It's Well, like yes and no well is the price Yes, yeah, it's you're making a deal with the devil sort of when you do something like that It can turn out really well. It can turn out horribly Well, you're gambling on the the director's creative vision being good is what you're doing on pretty much Well, because yeah, when you have a director says right here's the scene where the giant clown stabs batman No, even giant, you know, I'm getting that it's uh, you know, you'd be like, oh, maybe maybe don't do that That a studio guy comes in and says, yeah, don't do that. You're like, wow studio guy. You're ruining the vision Yeah, sometimes that's what you get sometimes the vision's bad. I've said it before and I'll say it again Nobody is keeping track of the times that studios saved movies or studios made a decision that people enjoy in movies because nobody cares People only care when they destroy movies Oftentimes those are the things that just don't they don't make it into the movie. So people never notice it It's not there for people to see you have to dig in that to you to find out that it happened Well, and if like I think if there's studio interference and makes a film better, you're not going to catch directors being like Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know all of you are happy, but that was the studio doing that I would my vision is really Like it just there's no reason for that to happen dressed directly and measured within a few years I'm also not going to say stuff like give the directors word control because we tried that and it didn't work I feel like we tried it with people who didn't have good visions that didn't use good processes I think what we got with marvel was like the worst of both worlds and that the writers in a certain sense got to do Whatever they wanted and that they didn't have to figure out how it's slotted into the bigger picture But on the other hand like marvel dictates a lot of the way that these films are made It's not like the directors. They they're like here's your team for the most part Here's the stuff that we've already got for you Here's like the process and you're like the director on a marvel movie is not the same as like a director on just a regular film They in a lot of ways they don't have creative control really at all And if you give a director Creative control But you don't give them the time and you put them in a situation where the way the movie is made is super rushed Then I mean all the creativity in the world It's just not going to be able to be expressed in any meaningfully positive way If one of these points was you need to start doing a hundred million dollar budgets And then someone says yeah, but we had one of those it didn't work I'd be like that both of you are insane Like this isn't even this doesn't address like you know, it has to be a particular budget Like well no good things great things and terrible things to be made on any particular budget and then Also having examples of them that have failed or succeeded on a particular budget doesn't tell you necessarily anything either So in the same vein saying we need more or less control is like be specific And it's funny because he's just derided the the idea of being too vague like so by by A increased control or limited control. What about the nature of let's say just for example Control of action scenes should that be given to the director or not and has it been in several of these movies? Because we all seem to agree that tyker pretty much had 100 control of 11 thunder But I don't I don't know if he did for the action scenes I don't know if that's been a mainstay now and all of it It's been a pattern in disney stuff not just in the mcu, but in star wars particularly in star wars But the action scenes are shit Um, we have to get like in in general something that I would probably say is you need to take a completely new Like look on how you handle action scenes and these Action heavy films because the action is shit Well, and what does it do for his point of view if I told him like, you know List me your favorite movies and the names five and I go Oh, yeah, that one was made with basically no input from the director. It was all like committee Like oh shit. It's like, yeah, it's possible that they can be good I think that we just need to agree on what the standard practice should probably be close to and it's like Oh, yeah respect the vision but also have oversight have limitations Try not to overspend have people in place to you know Cover all of these things to understand them and like, you know maintain the integrity of the artistry while also respecting The fact that this is an enormous industry tied to like thousands and thousands of jobs We get it, you know the balance of money versus creativity and stuff It's just that it's just sounds so weird to be like we tried giving full control. We got love and thunder So that doesn't work. It's like well, no you're focusing on the wrong thing Yeah, like it feel like that doesn't address anything like we had a bad president so democracy has failed What a very bold sort of thing to just say like yeah, there should be less creative control probably it's like wow, that's uh That's fucking bold Jesus But maybe he would say well, no, I'm not I'm just I'm just not going to use that as advice because I don't know what Like maybe he would say I don't know if that'll fix anything But his ideas will fix it so Ah, yeah I'm also not going to say stuff like give the directors work control because we tried that and it didn't work Phase four was pretty much that giving the directors the most control they've ever gotten phase and it let No, or is it no or is it the opposite? But we had explicit claims about uh black widow that they wouldn't there's a director who refused the project because she wasn't given control Like the yeah, I feel like that's happened a lot of times reality is if you want to look at the era when there was Like the most creative control and you got to go back to like phase one That's where you got to go back to in terms of like a lot of like I mean four, you know people pointed out four has like a visual style in terms of its cinematography That just isn't present a lot of other marvel films because canith brano just got to make a four film iron man I know it's technically it's not disney, but didn't this just happen with a new Jurassic world movie where the guy that we're gonna Have to it. Uh, yeah It's the same thing that happened with um Uh with uh solo the directors left that because it created differences and then run Star Wars history right now is insane with creators leaving for control over the projects and Of course, this is a problem that stretches for the back even than phase four We know several stories of people who left the mcu because they wouldn't get them what they wanted Out of control. Well, it's got Derek and then nobody cared because uh, sam ramy was on so everybody just kind of moved on and Give a shit that he left. Well, yeah, most people who love sam ramy don't even believe The mom is much of a ramy film outside of like shot references Which is sort of an again. Yeah the idea of creative control It's like, yeah, maybe he had creative control on the camera to some extent But how much control did he have over the script? I would almost use the word story to implicate like he's he's he didn't it's not a sam ramy story. It's a It's a collection of stuff made and focused tested rushed and uh insane Like systems that somehow did actually manage to produce enough money that they're gonna be running a sequel for it I wonder how that'll probably Dr. Strange is is one of the few things that they still have that they probably can expect to make money off of Oh, yeah, we didn't did uh, you left the mcu after revenge is too because of creative differences. So Yeah, that's right. It was really by the time that you get into phase two was already starting to get not great On that One, you know iron man two I think that you can get that kind of iron fists of Grasp on on all of this in terms of control if it's working. No, it's not people can be like, hmm Seems like that was a bad idea They have the attitude of well, it's all been working so far Um, I mean, it's it's it's funny. There seem to be similarities between the way marvel does it and that whole bio where magic thing You remember the idea of like, oh, well, it always gets there in the end Except then anthem didn't work and like mass effect endromeda didn't work and it's like, oh, shit Yeah, I guess the way that you're doing it is not Reliable just because it's managed to work so far doesn't mean and yeah And then it gets worse and worse and worse in terms of the way that marvel makes stuff to where now It's like a runaway train that's going to be very difficult to stop Yeah, and it's super weird that he's got this perspective as far as I've considered in terms of uh You know We've tried giving them full control in phase four. So now it's time to stop It's just like you're wrong and you've got a really bad conclusion for being wrong as well but uh those That's what's happening It's a multiverse of madness, which I like it journals, which I think is better than problem in it. Oh, that's that's part Again, it's the little thing that's part of the problem is that you liked it. Yeah, I know I'm policing Yeah, I was like, I know I'm policing what people like but like that is the problem The problem is that the worst movie like ever is created and you come and even now that you've had time to process it You're like, yeah, I like that movie. I was like, no that that shit is the problem It's uh, the the dramatic success of films that are practically anti films in terms of we know so much about the process of it I'm surprised that he's still seemingly chill with all of it and treats it as well doesn't it undermine his opinion isn't the the going sort of perspective on it as a As a as a phase four film is that it was given Sam Raimi had complete control like if he's gunning for that narrative, which is insane Um, so that how does he make the point that more control is not something we want You remember you must not know right? That's a no No, I don't know. Well, I would I would I we're we're giving him more credit by saying he doesn't know It's interesting as from an analyst point of view that wishes to save the mcu that he's like well Uh We need we shouldn't be giving them more control Because it didn't work and then sites mom which I assume he believes is a Sam Raimi controlled Uh project that he likes that seems incongruent because um You know like liking any film is is uh On one hand just you know, it's whatever but then Trying to highlight what's wrong with the mcu while saying that you know mom works Like well, that doesn't seem right does it? Exactly. It just seemed strange Let the multiverse of madness which I like Eternals which I think is better than people give it credit for and so we're loving what does that mean? It's better than it's better than what people give it credit for like for the sake of this video Has a notably lower reputation, which I find funny because it really is like just as bad as all the other ones Um, but I guess he's saying, uh, we know people judge too harshly. It's actually all right It which is weird because now every once in a while like even my very casual You know bumping in with twitter as I see people talking about like are we just going to forget that there's this massive giant sticking out of the earth? Yeah, it's like it's this weird kind of thing where people are finally starting to recognize that That's the thing that happened and they're coming to terms with it I don't know that we'll ever wake up sheeple any kind of interesting terms on it other than It's almost like it feels like it's prompted by the amount of memes about it Like that the writers are aware of because they're on twitter They'll be like, oh we should probably have a line in there because they kind of did that with she-hulk They were like he he look we referenced it. She's like But I guess if that's enough thunder now that doesn't mean that we need to rooso up phase six But the solutions i'm offering are more tangent. I mean that wouldn't even fix anything rooso up Like get the rooso brothers back, I guess Well, they made in they don't end game unfortunately They made end game. That's what I feel. I don't get it. Plus why would people kind of don't like him anymore? Anyway, like because of some of the uh, I mean what's what are they made after what they made the the gray man Right that netflix movie that disappeared came and went Yeah, there was the most expensive film netflix had made i'm pretty sure at the time it came out that just came And went I wouldn't recommend that through the hercules reboot. They do want a remake like a live action remake of hercules they've uh They've chimed in on the ai discussion Um, yeah, I don't I just find it funny the idea of like, oh, yeah get the rooso's back They'll fix it. It's like they're made end game, man Well, but like think of break it up into the nature of what he's saying Does he want the rooso's back because of like like as he's saying no, I don't want that but the that would be a thing He doesn't want that but he seems to understand that that might actually work But why because they would have control because Uh, I guess it would just be well, they made the films that I like because I presume he really likes end game Um, so, you know, well even still you go and get that right if one of the components of them Being a good choice to bring them back is that they would have the controllers artists But he's also said giving them more control isn't the way to go Yeah, no, I I get you. I totally understand. It's it's there's something here that is Pretty much just saying well, we know the rooso's a banger like 11 out of 10 people every time but let's find a different solution, you know These are simple achievable goals. Okay starting with Number one we go make more small connection I ride rags. You've got a point. Yeah Interesting. I guess you'll number two I guess we'll see but maybe yeah, maybe he'll say what I said, but I wonder if oh, no, I'm telling you wonder what he says Oh, all right. Well, that is that is your number two prediction. So congrats Ray Uh, as you can imagine before we see him develop this I imagine that just this make more small connections All three of us would agree. This is has nothing to do with improving the films Uh film can be good with it. It can be bad with it. Uh, I think ultimately this is growing everything I think that I mean if you can do them well, I'd say do them when they make sense It's a neat thing to do. It's neat to connect the world But if you do it poorly then it just it just hurts you you got to do it well As far as I'm concerned, uh, this is just a thing that will happen naturally when you're writing good scripts anyway Yeah, there's nothing to do like Ensuring this is happening does does nothing for whether or not your script is actually good But this is like a by-product of having a well-written connected, you know series of stories. Yeah, but let's see the The explanation Okay, so this one seems pretty straightforward, but it gets trickier the further we go People often get on marvel's case with the criticism that the movies only exist to set up the next movie And let's see what they mean. I think a it's why No, it's not that you see what they mean. That is true. That is it's one of the point where uh James got himself was Lebed take that reality how sad it is It's deep into the meta a lot of the time when people are going to watch the film They're not that interested in what happens in that film They're more interested in what it sets up so that they can speculate and then when that next film comes around They don't really care what happens in that film. They're like, oh, what's next? Oh, fantastic for the marvels was coming out right before the marvels anyone had seen it People were talking about how interesting it's going to be to see the x-men because that's what's getting set up in the marvels Well, it was so bad that they basically They they teased as much as they could without outright stating it that the x-men We're going to show up in a post-credits scene It was crazy like it became part of the marketing was be there to see what comes next or something That's crazy Like if it's gone to the point that even marvel is saying that that's kind of what they know that you're there for Yeah, it's a big problem Also, it's always that it's just nitpicking. He agrees with you So you're just nitpicking because we have stated we understand the the perspective But that he's not going hard enough at all. He's saying like I can understand it. It's like no, it's just true Yeah, that's right earn a reverse cod. Yeah, you just nitpicked. So don't do that bad according to you And b it's something they do for a reason first like sure doctor strange ends with the ragnarok tease But who cares that's not why the movie is made It's just a little thing tacked on to the end of the movie They're usually made in such a way that if you miss them, you don't miss any of the story in the next one Like until ragnarok, you still have plenty of setup for the doctor strange cameo It's just that if you saw the doctor strange post-credits scene, you know that doctor strange I would argue that technically all of the scenes still have that even the shitty ones that set up like that You know like the x-men scene in the marvels. You cannot see it. You'll be fine Yeah, exactly You cannot see it and be fine, but they know that people are going Not just for the post-credits scene, but the idea of like what it'll be like You remember when uh when uh bruce was like reference Wakanda in uh age of ultron It's like they're looking for little stuff like that too throughout the film It's not just the idea of the post-credits scene. It's also other things that happen in it Like how people weren't people in she-hawk. They had something There was another thing similar to the to the referencing of the celestial the referenced um Wolverine that was just there people are looking for stuff like that. They're looking for all Yeah, it's almost like it's commentary on both the films themselves But also the nature of the audience and what they've sort of churned into And how they are no no longer reliable to support Like your stories because you've actually you've essentially trained them to not be interested in the stories as much as they're interested in the next thing When they watch she-hawk, you can tell them all you want Oh, well, you know, it's just a fun little comedy show But a lot of people are going in like oh, so we're gonna set up like hulk story lines World war hulk that's that's happening and it's not just the post-credits scene It's it's it's like an expectation throughout the whole thing of I wonder what little teasers and tidbits And we're gonna see a character show up if um in a post-credits scene or earlier than that It's like if you focus it in on the most narrow realm possible Which is the post-credits scenes aren't that big a deal Maybe you'd have a point, but it's not just relegated to the post-credits scenes It's it's the whole film people are kind of wondering Yeah, if people go wild over like remember Dr. Strange when um, they're going through when they go on a through all the different multiverses People like oh, that's like spider-man 2099 or something It's like dude, it's like two. It's like a split second But people like that's and then you see all the videos of people speculating on it Like you know that this is the case you have to know this They're not even making the big connections and a lot of the times the small connections aren't going to be able to You know shoulder the weight that's left behind Yeah, there's no reason why the marvels wouldn't have an amazing payoff that will be referenced till the end of time But it doesn't they didn't seem to care that they could they were like well, whatever I think homecoming is a good example of a story that takes place very appropriately that Clearly inside of a universe that's bigger than itself as a movie Um, and it's not a small detail. It like the story kind of it hinges around that. It's it's reliant on that It's not just that these little things happen in the movie and interact with the characters or drive the plot It's big stuff Well, yeah, the you can tell the focus with homecoming was the you can have significant repercussions from the avengers One being vulture one being spider-man Like in that yeah, whereas a lot of what we've seen in like phase four is the worst outcome of that which is Grabbing little things that can be like. Oh, that's a fun meme But the story that you're telling Is so incongruent with a lot of what's happening in other films that you're just creating new problems like black widow Yeah, exactly. Black widow is like this new problems because it takes place in the mcu And it kind of wants to take advantage of that but they also want to tell their own story regardless of all of the massive implications that can have on other films I mean the fact that we're not allowed when In black widow when none of the other avengers get involved and are completely absent from the movie, that's inexplicable There's there's no reason why that should happen Totally a meta thing and a meta decision and it hurts the film when there should have been connections and there weren't So it goes both ways Um make appropriate connections because that's kind of the way real people are the real world when you watch You know efap when you talk with your friends when you do anything like that We're constantly making reference to the world around us. We have shared cultural things And the nature of these stories is such that you have these big iconic characters large events big things happening That would just naturally be referenced and spoken about from character to character in these stories And they don't do that a lot of the times. Yeah, like I said that those should be coming in with just strong script writing It shouldn't be something that when you're making a script you go make sure you have references to other stuff It's like that shouldn't even be something that should just happen It's just an emergent element of the story that you're telling Yeah, it should be that like if something's happening in new york Maybe one of the characters who is in new york shows up as they might But if there's another character who's unavailable for reasons that have been established in the prime movie It's like well that they don't show up and that's chill because they're not around But I like I've gone about it And you can totally fuck yourself over if you do something like secret invasion and the scrolls and them being on earth And there's no way that like You have you have fundamentally changed the kind of stories that you can tell going forward unless you want to just ignore it Which is which they will because you cannot account for it You cannot reasonably account for the things that you decided to green light story wise So you do yourself The the eternals would be like one of the films to point to in terms of You wanted to tell your own story because this story doesn't fit You can't have these characters exist and have not been involved all this time and And on the the flip side as well You cannot just leave a celestial poking out of earth And then have every other story ignore it because they they're like connected in the worst way possible Which is that all of the errors leak into everything else But none of the benefits of the shared universe actually being um I don't I don't know if I want to say exploited because that's that's probably the most cynical way that they would view it They're not being leveraged. They're not being utilized. You're not you're not utilizing your connective I think this happens very naturally when you're super invested in all this stuff Right like you if you had in a in Thor one when he kills the the big robot sentinel thing The destroyer right like if he had killed it and a line he has after it saying that's probably the biggest creature I've ever killed or some shit doesn't have to necessarily be true But like if you have him then in avengers 2 and he kills something that's twice the size and says nothing He'd be like, oh That feels weird like remember he had that little line about how he was like the biggest thing and he killed something bigger Yeah, and if you actually have the line people would be like us. That's cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah, you know He kills it just says I guess that's bigger There's someone like that I just go oh sweet They remembered the thing from the thing and it's like yeah, they did because they watched it and they were like Oh, yeah, we can use that And that's why it could have been a good could have been a good guess for our number five is make sure the director watches the other Yes Because obviously my example is like crap, but the you know the thing there are examples that exist throughout the I think that when you're invested in writing these stories you will Try I think to remember the lives of the characters as they may Try to remember all the things that have happened to them what they might say when certain things come up Well, you know and and just having them in the background and every once in a while A thing can be prompted and you can even have people be like what do you mean by that and you go? Oh, it it's uh, if you watched his film he basically just did this thing that you know like oh, okay, cool um, so yeah, I just don't I don't see this as a solution as opposed to a A result of fixing the actual problem Just cameo is coming and sure sometimes a character like Riri or echo is clearly being introduced with the expectation That they're getting a spin off later on Did anyone think about echo? Ah Uh, I think I think that they had announced a spin off So I know that I'm talking about within the the thing itself not any kind of meta context But watching it do you get the impression like are you she's gonna be getting all right? I don't know. I don't remember. I only watched one episode of what I guess if there's even one person in chat who watched Maybe they can let us know I just uh, I find it hard to believe sometimes it's like because at this point by this matrix It's like oh fucking everybody gets a tv show, which I guess is what happened everyone was making those jokes even Uh, the writer director of quantum mania. It's in the video They joke about the girl that hank dated while janet was missing called linda having her own tv show Like that's how much it's become a meme But if they work in the introduction who cares like if you did not know they were getting a spin off Would this matter the then second it might it might be just like What do you think every like side ish or or b level character should be made with the What about non protagonist characters like you have to write them with the expectation that they're going to get a spin off series Or do you just write them as good characters who aren't protagonists? There is a character like in uh in in buffy. I don't know if you're going to remember him for any And this this wouldn't be a spoiler. He's a he's a season three character and he's in the show for one scene He's really good. He's a therapist in the school He gets killed. Um, but he has like a selection He has like one scene with a character and it's really good. He's really insightful really charming and really supportive And then he gets killed and it's like oh and it's like Is that better or worse like like wouldn't you rather any character that doesn't have a future Any character that doesn't get a spin off being made as well as everyone else in terms of strong character writing as opposed to um You know some kind of weird universe where we only write based on like what their futures are I feel like you should treat it fairly try and make everybody interesting for the time they have whatever it may be Instead of like basing in a right. I hate this like meta logic of um Better write them You know knowing where where we're going to put them in franchise wise Imagine if lord of the rings was made with that we're mary and pippin and all these other characters they're thinking about Yeah, we're going to do the mary movie and the pippin Then we're going to have a pheromir movie and mary and pippin will return Oh and by the way I want to say this for ages every time I mention anything to do above people like I hate how much he fucking references. How come you never say this for lord the rings We talk about lord rings way more Lord rings got extensive double coverage. It's like you fuckers I barely ever talk about buffy, especially on this show because rags hasn't seen it yet Also angel is better than buffy, but that's not a different conversation Okay Work in the introduction who cares like if you did not know they were getting a spin off would this matter But then second this is something marvel does for a reason phase one felt connected because colson showed up in three Movies leading up to the avengers. Tony was in three fury was in three the shared universe is part The only characters will make repeat appearances based on their roles that should be a natural element of connected stories They showed up in three. It's like well one of them was a direct sequel. So, you know, you know Yeah, I mean I would expect Tony to show up and and also it's funny that he says Tony showed up in three It's like are you including incredible Hulk the one that actually I'm pretty sure just flat out doesn't lead anywhere But uh, this by the way feels it's it was definitely Rags is one, but it does feel like a jason 20 yours for you being the Clearly like an overall narrative. You said proper structure. I don't know if this would count But it's just interesting that he's saying like he's doing the meme phase one Everyone everyone was like, oh, yeah, so connected because of all these people being in it's like We've had millions of cameos and connections in phase four and five. What do you mean? People are everywhere Yeah That's not being helping. No, it doesn't do anything It doesn't it doesn't help. This is not this is like a gaslight in everybody into including yourselves, by the way Into thinking this is a thing like oh valkyrie was in the marvels So It's like oh, that's an interesting connection. Hawkeye. Oh, that's always always happy to see a slave trader make her cameo appearance and Showed up in three movies leading up to the Avengers Tony was in three Fury was in three the shared universe is part of the fun. I understand why I can feel overwhelming But when done well, it only adds to the experience I hope he doesn't think this is done well This is I don't like this scene. This is a shared universe like that's what this is representative of because look it's hulk He's there. This was uh, this was the beginning of them fucking up hawk Um, was this this was the beginning Yes, and uh, and this damage done to iron man is only corrected in civil war. It takes ages Yeah, and why you may have been hesitant to include these recently Covid forced schedules to move around so guaranteeing that a certain character was going to appear at a certain time was difficult We actually advocate and that we get more cameos in Like seriously, it's so funny though. It's shot dr. Strange. It's like remember the reason why I did show up in one division Yeah, it wasn't covered in scheduling problems It was it was wacky and stupid writing ideas that prevented him from getting in there. So How about we focus on the writing? How about we get that? I love the idea. It's like, oh man, you know, we just get it gotta get more Interconnectivity more cameos just like phase one when as far as i'm concerned, we've been overdosing on fucking cameos Dude, this scene is hilarious. So on these other display, uh, well not this like the Look at that eye The idea that like you've you've just got charlie's they're on showing up like, oh, you gotta come with me to the multi first Yeah, we gotta go on adventures together. I'm gonna cut a hole in in space here Are you done screaming in the street? You know, we have to go do some stuff I've seen people saying it and I could totally buy it the in the third dr. Strange He's gonna die and that she'll how she'll then be taking his place and stuff And the reason why I think it's very possible is because I can't imagine how much longer benedict cumberbatch is going to be wanting to do mc How would he want to be involved anymore? But then again, crashing and booting charlie's moron It's not like she's like lacking work. You know, she doesn't need to do this That's true. But like at least he's actually done it, you know, I could see him being a kind of actor like a Robert Downey Jr. That's like, I've done my time. I'm I'm I'm good. Well, yeah, he's uh, he's been part of it for We're getting close to a decade at this point, which is insane because it With dr. Strange, I always felt like uh, infinity wall was a really cool way of getting him in his first proper like experience An avengers one kind of way And that's really where it stopped for me. Like I've not felt he's he's moved through and on in the world much at all Since then. Well, it's like I may be at the end of his journey already Like he it would be so cool to have him go through the iron man journey But it's like well, that's never gonna fucking happen. Is it like he's never gonna get no significant development. No Sure was going to appear at a certain time was difficult Famously Val was expected to appear in black widow before falcon in the winter soldier. This this literally had no effect on how good they were I'm sorry No, how much people enjoyed it Who cares whether or not she was correctly timeline placed with it. I it's fair to highlight I I totally don't disagree with that what I'm saying is that uh, the problems with falcon and the winter soldier And hawkeye or black widow or whatever you want to talk about in terms of where these characters end up on what timelines It's really not to do with whether julia louise drafus is her name, right? Yeah, whether or not she was available because of covet stuff like that her scenes are not really that that's uh, Well, he's talking about the other one. Yeah, that's really it's just not at all what the problem is Sure Dr. Strange and the multiverse of madness was supposed to take place before spider-man no way home Isn't this not this isn't even what he was highlighting you talking about more content connectivity This is that the connectivity is there. It's just out of order, but that they try to account for it Mm-hmm. Like this was a huge dr. Strange cameo in spider-man. He's practically a secondary I don't even call it cameo. Yeah, it's not a cameo. Yeah, he's just one of the characters in the story How is how is that not he was the only character on the poster He's on the post or connectivity like that's not even You know, yeah, so the connectivity was done poorly. They've they've they've Made a tangled web here of connections and they can't pull it off It's um, obviously dr. Strange did not come out of spider-man unscathed. Not at all No, he was he was sacrificed upon what we learned was that um things in that movie work Originally, it was supposed to be america shaves the gets all the spell shit fucked up or something like that That was one of the original Makes more sense because once again Over hours we we get all the components on the table and he's standing there saying you see it's cameos and connectivity We've got to fix it. We said they're like no It's the fact that they had to get those cameras and connectivity They couldn't put them in the right places and the stories had to bulk and break in order to account for it And they'd now don't make sense It's the script Fundamentally the script Oh, yeah, but schedules needed to be changed and you guys made it work But now that the machine is that didn't make it work. It didn't make it work. That's the problem You thought that this this is the issue you thought that it was working when it wasn't The check engine light has been on for ages Yes Secret invasion made to pick these back up like secret invasion Wait, so he's referencing guardians 3 is having lacked connectivity Which is funny because a lot of people who come away with saying guardians 3 was awesome And the best in like phase 4 and 5 put together I don't think any of them care that you didn't see fucking You know the hulk flying around in it or anyone else or valkyrie cameo Nobody cares nobody even to be honest with you It's one of the things I liked about that film the fact that it was often its own shit in a different part of the universe That was neat. I mean in the MCU. That's yeah, that's something of all of our list of issues I don't think we mentioned anything to do with wanting to see characters But we did want the repercussions of having been a part of the MCU to be more represented And then we found out that james gun feels very bitter about what the MCU did to the guardians so Yeah, that's why for some reason Which is probably not the best attitude if you want to make the script as efficient as possible The fact that they were able to crack medical technology that can insta heal almost any wound Is the kind of thing that you're like, oh shit, that's gonna change everything forever You should probably tell earth about that You guys made it work, but now that the machine is rolling again We need to pick these back up like secret invasion You don't but okay Loki both did not feature post credit scenes Guardians three had some but they focused exclusively on the guardian Okay, so now we're at the point of actually advocating they need more post credit scenes I'm happy to wipe them out. Yeah, yeah, they could go away. Um I yeah, they could go away. I don't need them It's one of those like I guess if if the post credit scenes were neat little funny things at the end There's like, okay That's cool to have but like Just don't have them if you can't make them good or meaningful or interesting, you know I guess get rid of them What I'm trying to say is that it would change nothing about the quality of the scripts to wipe out Post credit scenes like I I don't care about them Um, I care about them in the sense that I'll watch them And I'll keep track of what they're setting up and everything to do with matter information As well as if they change anything about the main narrative like far from homes Almost like completely fixes fury in that film by arguing He's not fury which is funny because he has since become completely incompetent Like that film took efforts to be like this is why he's incompetent the rest of like he's just incompetent They rewrote his history to say he was incompetent his accomplishments with someone that was the They they literally inserted his wife with the the clip that he showed here brain blast that they invented for him In far from home Right what's his perspective was if fury's fucking up then it's more than likely a scroll And then secret evasion the perspective was if fury's doing well that it was actually a scroll that did it Yeah, that's crazy. How long did it take for that to flip? Uh a couple years Damn And they definitely don't talk to each other, huh? Wakanda forever had one that was only about baby tachala and I know what you're thinking That's the point the guardians are better separate from the rest of them Wakanda forever not necessarily. Um, I mean not necessarily. I mean like I mean everybody enjoyed singy avengers and the guardians made up in infinity war. Absolutely. That was great Everyone loves rocket and Thor and all those guys meeting Uh But it's one of those I mean not to sound like a broken record, but like it depends on if you do it well or not Absolutely, that's what all comes back to all these random rules that we're throwing out We need more connectivity We need the guardians to be separated because they're better on their own like what what do you Know stop He's already at the very beginning of this He discounted what the underlying foundation should be which is that the writing should be good Because that's what kind of predicates whether or not all of these ideas are going to be successful or not in terms of quality It has to be done well. There's not that many ideas That you shouldn't do just like on principle Um, it's it's about execution. It's like we say it all the time ideas are cheap Executions everything execution is everything Or couldn't follow the Chadwick tribute Loki was a finale secret invasion was bad. Sure, but these don't You know what video I want from him is tell me why it's bad though. Like yeah, tell me why I need to know How have you identified secret invasion as being the bad one and the rest is being good to okay Oh, how it's a great invasion bad, but you like multi-versus madness. Yeah Yeah And I would like to know if you imagine he said like top five reasons secret invasion is bad It's like five bad cg four bad pacing three not utilization of multiple characters that deserve more time Two the story was hard to follow one Nick fury was not benefited as much as he could have been from the show We'd be like Jesus Christ Like these these are not why the secret invasion is do you know what I mean? Like I would imagine that's what he would say instead of look how inconsistently written the entire thing is Look how much of a disaster the wheel building the plot and the characterization is um It's all these weird ways of framing everything that makes it so difficult to understand What the mc would even look like if he got everything he wanted? I don't know You get those viral tweets every once in a while where people like oh, I want you know this I want batman to fight the transformers then it'll be like thank fuck you guys out in charge sort of stuff Just like oh, yeah, I don't know Always need to be post-credits scenes. So here's recommendation number one Tell people by the end of each show or movie where they can see at least one guy or thing Again within the next two years Oh my god, I don't I feel like they do this already. I don't understand. This is a solution It will fix the mcu to do what they yeah to do what they've been doing already like this because he's showing this This is one example. This is recent Yeah, this was only a couple years ago Um, and then I'm just oh wonder vision that was for multiverse and madness. Uh, miss marvel was for the marvels Uh, what do they do this all the time? What's why is he presenting this like it's some new idea? I don't know This can be a post-credits scene, but it can also be something within the movie or show either way I love that. He says that like it's a novel bit of information You could talk about the future at any point in your movie like yeah Yeah, that's just called writing part of the it's part of being able to make a movie Some of it's so condescending that i'm like, why wouldn't you agree that we need to just fundamentally go back to how we even write a script Like opening that conversation up with with marvel because they clearly don't know what they're doing Moment like this can give the universe a sense of cohesion and set the expectation that there is a plan The belief that the cohesion comes from the post-credits scene setting up what's next rather than the universe being Concurrent throughout Yeah, because again rags pointed out that like spider-man homecoming is what happens when you treat the universe as congruent There's going on everywhere. Yeah Yeah, you don't want to compartmentalize these things like this is the movie And this is the little part where it connects with the rest of the world And this is the movie and this is the little part of the inward connects with the rest of the world You don't want to have these like like a switch that flicks on and off or whether exactly a world is connected It just needs to be in it needs to be inseparable from the story itself I thought that was the whole point It's the idea like in a comic book that you could be reading it and then it's just like oh And then another hero just shows up because they were in the area, you know that kind of thing of like Oh, yeah, because you know this is a world where other characters exist Where they can interact with each other Rather than like well, you've got your story and then at the end put a post credit scene that reminds people that this is a shared universe You shouldn't need to remind people that it is it should be apparent that it is Or if your story has no connection to the other Stories because of where it's set or what's happening in it or the stakes and that's fine too You remember um Because this got in so bad now, but in phase two When the president got kidnapped he was like where's cap I was cap not involved in this Yeah, boss and then the flip side where's tony and uh And uh, winter soldier. Yeah, it's uh, it's stuff like that You can kind of get past doing all right. You'll even have people saying like is there a movie? Which isn't in universe at all, but like whatever it's gotten so out of hand With everybody everywhere portal technology readily available. It's just like I can't do what this it was. It's not possible So this makes a fucking sense. It unfortunately inaction is is Qualified as character. It's just like that's none of them. You know, okay, I guess You're going to need to deliver on that plan, but it's worth doing and juby figure. This has been done. Well ant-man 3 the Ant-man 3 what are you referring to? What are you rags? He's made it clear stuff So in quanta mania you hit the credits then you hit the scene of loki watching victor timely And this means that the audience know to watch loki season 2. This is what he means by done. Well Jesus All right. Well, I guess the mcu's fucked them. The mcu's fucked. Yeah with advice like this like this is how to do it well You fixed it good. Wow. It's at least this is one of five rags. Okay, so one of them is useless If not actively damaging, but we go four left get get the bad one out of the way first so that we can get to the next four Tees of loki season 2 worked pretty well wand division having monica meet the scrolls worked pretty well It didn't work. I thought they forgot all this because of how much it doesn't match up with the models or secret evasion. Yeah, I mean Yeah, and also wouldn't this be an example of doing it wrong because this was three years apart rather than within a year or two Yeah, this is a long time. What is this was the first phase or project and the marvels has just come out And he's he's full of shit. No offense, nando But like the information to do with these scenes is not what people use to know what's coming next It's meta it's trailers announcements. It's stuff from different accounts online when you see this scene Ask everybody who watched this scene. So where are you going to see monica next? They'll be like, I don't know Someone to do with scrolls, I guess Well, yeah, why would the average normie viewer be like, oh And I'll see her in marvel studios the marvels. Exactly. I don't know that They'll only know that from announcements social media stuff that they keep in track of outside of the fucking scene If they're paying attention and if they're paying attention if they're the kind of person who's paying attention They're not the kind of person that you need to like They're the kind of person who's probably gonna watch it no matter what anyway You know, it's not like a winning strategy for general audiences, which is what marvel needs They need to have a winning strat their films cost too much money to appeal to a niche audience They need to appeal to general audiences and general audiences are not watching this post credits in gone Oh, I see I can see monica rambo Photon in the marvels marvel studios the marvels If my dad watched wanda vision that he saw this scene, I'd be like, so what are you excited for you excited for monica? He'd be like, which one's monica? You know Like nobody nobody knows this shit And you know, you only know what you know because of stuff outside of this scene It's not this scene that gives you that expectation of a TV show or a movie Why wouldn't why wouldn't somebody believe that this was a tie into secret invasion, you know Other than the models Could be anything It could be nothing we've had We've had after-credits scenes the go-do way We've had them as early as fucking 2008 the incredible hawk one doesn't go anywhere Meet the scrolls worked pretty well the hawk ids in black widow worked really well the problem It worked really well. It worked really they she look at this photo Look at this photo See her This photo of hawk eye Holy shit I think like if he's being completely honest with us what he's talking about is isn't this awesome because it sets up Black widow two versus hawk eye Is he about to say the eternal is one is bad because it's not going anywhere. Let's see he's in black widow worked really well The problem is it's really well post credit scene That was a recent one Yeah, what the hell was just funny he's shown this it's like dude this this one is more recent to black widow the example You said that was good then to now Not only that but like what do you said to qualify as a good one? I think the marvels passes, right? It's like oh look at the x-men. They'll be coming. They're coming. They'll be coming probably in the next couple years What's more hilarious though is that it proves the negatives point again because it's like fringy What property will you see the x-men in next? I I mean how could I possibly possibly know Other than deadpool but deadpool has probably got nothing to do with that post credit scene Absolutely not. Yeah, I don't think there's any reason to assume that but even still it's all reliant on information That's not in the scenes. It's all outside of stuff In fact, I think that that's what they're built for is to make you go Google what's with the scene after blah blah blah And then watch the youtube videos that say where it could go next with a big circle and the arrow pointing at it To introduce a character that there is no clear plan on when we will ever see them again Yeah, but the reason why there's no clear plan is because eternal's failed There is that's why I don't want to let him there is no clear plan for when we're seeing any character No, not not a not a real plan. No Um, but but in this case if if eternals had made a billion dollars You would probably by now Know where this is going but it failed and they might not make another one And that's why it doesn't lane anywhere I just don't uh, this this advice is so bad like, um You can only do the post credit scenes for stuff that you know is in stone and is definitely happening and that they can Logically understand that's where it's going from the scene itself. That seems to be his advice Except if they're funny, but then he didn't seem to like the funny ones Hmm Big three are aeros, clea and hercules. Oh, okay. So but what if what if we get Thor Thor next year announced and it's called Five fuck it out. It's it's hard to be wearing or loving hercules or something. Well, if it was four versus hercules That's the title. Yeah, and then you'd be like, okay. So now now this credit It has now become good. Yeah, it's good now. Exactly. It has now become good because disney announced a film That's all I was saying is like this has nothing to do with the scenes themselves It has to do with the matter of information that you're not even privy to most of This is the first one he leads with on how to fix the mc. That's funny. It is funny because it does nothing I genuinely cannot see a clear entrance point for any of those characters in it. What do you mean? It's easy I mean, they just turn up in a sequel movie Yeah, I haven't seen the movie and not strange three Those are way simpler than hey, you watch the scarlet witch and vision show Be sure to watch monica rambo in the captain marvel sequel titled the marvels Take as two examples one good one bad the good one is where uh, Why don't you forget her name helena? Yelena? That's it, right? Yeah, I know. Yeah She's got a personal reason to go after hercules. It's Hawkeye And so it's like, oh that's exciting because we know that that's that's gonna happen in the next thing Cool. And it's like, oh, but it doesn't work with hercules who has been personally sent to possibly kill thorn and has a personal reason to have Issue with him. It's the same. It's exactly the fucking same But it's like, yeah, okay, but but we had the project announced for the future of yelena and hawkeye. We didn't for uh, uh, hercules This has nothing to do with the actual scenes. It's just to do with the mess Exactly As soon as they announce the tunnels to and then say that harry stiles is going to be in it It's like, oh, well, this becomes a good post credit thing now As soon as they say dr. Strange three is coming out and uh, we already know is coming out. So I don't even know what a fuck Yeah, and she'll be in it and that doesn't make it good. Yeah, doesn't make it bad Why isn't it not judged on the merits of itself? I don't understand Any move your show that's coming out in the next two years He'd be very generous and say maybe hercules shows up in thunderbolts or maybe clea shows up. What's why? Why? Oh, why wouldn't it just be the sequels to them? We've we've we've done this for a century decades. I should say We don't know I feel like we're getting way off track. Yes. We are this movie I feel like we've gone down a road and there's a point. I feel like that sign That's that sign is what I feel like. I just want to say Sot I mean stop stop this we need to stop and we need to rewind We are getting into the weeds on shit that is really not gonna be helpful If we can't even talk about writing it good And we're starting getting into a specific connection to these characters and maybe you see me get it I don't know is I gotta know that Oh It's like a road trip around all of america and the first state you're going through you have a mcdonald's And then you're like, I actually want to try all the fast food restaurants in this state And then you're like by the time you hit the seventh one, you're like, what were we doing? Like we were traveling across all of america They're building them faster than we can eat at them. We need to go I'm uh, I'm just looking at the screen here looking at this costume and going like man. That's like lame Yeah, that's a lame costume That looks like something you gotta spend uh Like I feel like I've seen it before micro transactions for you know This looks like a skull at which costume, but purple is this how I'm feeling looking at it The pointing out this side looks like it says slop Yeah And they fucked up the L on it and to put it upside down That makes sense here. They would do that House of Harkness, but it really doesn't seem like how those people are just casually walking around when like there's a woman In a crazy costume standing in the middle of the street and Dr. Strange is right there Is someone who's saved the world someone who would be surrounded by people who'd be saying thank you But whatever, uh, also the fact that he's built into his explanation of how this would be better the oh Yeah, well it can still be good even though I've said it's bad because of announcements like oh Fucking Hercules will be in Thunderbolts as if there's anything to do with making it good Kevin Feige says um Charlie's Theron is gonna be in you know this movie then it's like, uh, okay. It's good now. All right. Good. Good job, Kevin I commend thee There are those are happening what it seems like is marvel wanted to use this post credit scene to introduce a far future project And that's not No, they wanted to for a turn was to the probably isn't gonna happen because it failed I feel like can we not just be honest all post credit scenes since the start have been bait They are to get you to be like oh, and I don't have any problem with that fundamentally But they've overstretched to the point where we can have as many as like three of those types of scenes in a film now I think they're gonna try and start rolling them down again But it's it's the kind of and you have people being like oh, I saw the new x and it's like oh What was in the post credit scene? It's like why the fuck is that the first question? Holy shit So, yeah, I don't know like what at the end of Iron Man when he says like, you know bigger universe everyone goes Oh my god, he's talking about a veggies These scenes again, I feel a symptoms. They're not the problem Nor are they the solution Here's some examples of connections. I think we could have done in past mcu stuff This is a list of this. Oh, here we go. Now we're going to Taco Bell. It's like there's another Taco Bell over there Before he gets into this list This is like when someone you barely know thinks they're your friend and then they start telling you about the dream They had last night and you're just like You've already zoned out before he's even started They explained it for like 20 minutes. Then you go. Yeah. Yeah That's that's pretty that's pretty wild. That's pretty good. And then they go. What do you think? Can you go? Oh I think I have to go kill myself over there. I feel like excuse me for just a moment You go. Oh, shit. Sorry. My food's arrived. Give me one second. You write back and you're like, okay Anyway, so then they go. What do you think about the dream? I told you about you're like, you're so detached You just tell them just like I think I'm getting your call and you don't even pull out your phone You just walk away Yeah The Joel would do Not Joel from the last of us. Wait, why don't I say Joel Joel mccayle? Um, that's feels like something that jeff would do jeff wouldn't care if you noticed he didn't care though, right? Look, he would just be like, well, I'm reminded of that joke. You remember that when it's just like but here's the thing And he just walks away. Yeah He just leaves Thunder a scene with valkyrie in it can start with her ending a phone call with carol. Oh my god This doesn't matter not even a little bit Why are I don't want to add anything to these these movies shouldn't have anything added to them On the note of how this would be done properly is when you're writing the scene with valkyrie and they establish a huge threat She would have to say if you're in her mind. Oh, what about captain marvel who i'm directly connected to and has the most power in the universe We should probably enlist her to help us with this thing that could destroy the universe You don't go make sure you have a scene where she picks up the phone and says what sorry Oh carol carol captain marvel carol. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I will yes. We will do the thing We're gonna do it later that at some time maybe in a two hour long film coming to theaters near you Yeah, I can't believe he's advocating for this shit I don't care. I want a good story. I don't care if they set up to number two It's not even a setup. It's like, oh look, it's gonna let you know There's some conversation in the marvels Yeah, this is like, but here's what they could have done. This is like we he's just talking about his fan fiction ideas Just a little thing because those two apparently talk she hulk can meet hulk van dyne the new ceo why Why I think my favorite pot is that he's not even explaining why they would He just says they should be on a call We need to see if she hulk that begins with us saying oh, that's great. That's great. Hope van dyne. Yes, that's great. Thank you Yes. Yes, it puts the phone down Like oh wow, it's so interconnected Can meet hulk van dyne the new ceo of pym technology since they both live on the west coast They could be at some sort of they both live on the west coast So like I often bump into people who yeah who just live on the same coast to me I don't live in the same city She-hulk lives in coast come on same coast man lives in Now they're like five hours apart. Oh How far is the way from san francisco? And also aren't they both like massive metropolitans food would be said to be an event And then they both go to oh, maybe some event and they both go to it. Okay. Is that how that's 347 miles from each other with the analogy of driving to all the taco bells You're just like, what are we doing? Why are we talking about this like trying to get the it's like a six-hour drive What's happening? That's so funny. They both live on the west coast though, and we know how good we know how she-hulk is with driving. So Something like that we're kind of forever should be one of the easier ones just to have the Everett Ross do a scroll thing in That's That doesn't even wicks is supposed to be a surprise that he's a swirl in secret evasion like This is so awkward considering that the ending of that film is meant to be like a like a memorial like a eulogy for chat with bozeman It's like, you know and after that we should have the post-credits scene for secret evasion Everett doing a scroll thing What the hell man? What the Man like this is the solving Spoiling the actual surprise that they were trying to set up in their terrible show We all guessed it before it happened, but like that was supposed to be a surprise It's seen or something or even just have him call nick fury and be like nick fury. I have that information you're looking for It's the mean Go to number two. Just go to just so we're like, oh right nick fury's in one of these coming up It's okay. We'll just move on. It is one of the ones that does this pretty well with the vector time No Nothing to do with the adventure they go on other than the fact that it's kang. There's no connection Whoa, it's it's actually at he's advocating for advertising. He's like you got to make sure you have your ads in your movies Beans three have one of the characters just reviewing distress calls and stuff like that And one of them is that the jump points are acting weird. That's all we need No, we don't need that We don't even show up in the movie though. I don't show up in the marvels. So why would you even do it anyway? Yo, it's funny. He's just highlighted another problem with the marvels because they should be involved The jump points are being manipulated To the marvels secret invasion have fury meet monica on sabre No, bokeh season two has that line where they talk about the kang from ant man in the wasp Quantumania. Well, I don't hate that. I think that could be replaced with something related to Deadpool because Why why you doing How is this going to save the mcu? I don't know just like random shit that he sort of thought of and have hasn't even These aren't even for me. These aren't even these are like this is the the rough hewn rock of an idea It's barely been worked on. It's like the concept of a concept Jesus, what are these two characters met? I was like, I don't know that sounds like the beginning of the multi-step process Because we can imagine the potential of the meat He's talking about we need to set up that they do meet in some other thing by having them say something to each other Have a phone call be in an event doesn't have to be long, but make sure it's there. Otherwise people will feel it's disconnected I mean if if you need these kinds of things to make your audience feel like your cinematic universe is connected You're already fuck Yeah, well that's kind of the point. We've already talked about how they've missed all the major things and you're like Yeah, well make sure you get some small things like It was and then staple them on to the very very end of the movie after most people have fucked off the head of the theater Do something the guy who cleans up the popcorn if throw him a bone guys Like whatever you put in after credit scenes as rags just highlight isn't going to change the the box office numbers You know, I mean like that's gonna have no effect Well, I mean as we saw with the marvels they basically marketed the post credit scene as much as they could without doing it They literally had stuff from the post credit scene in the trailer Didn't say that was the worst performing marvel film Yeah, and they were like tony stark than it was captain america, which by the way still like are they going to be facing? court case on that Such a lie Yeah, well if kamala khan met she hulk ensued the avengers Then that would probably be really great if that showed up in the post credit scene Yeah, if they could just have a call at some point just a full telephone call Apparently Deadpool 3 has a lot to do with the tv a you don't even have to say dead Why the fuck just say hey, what about that prisoner that won't show the reason why it's because it's probably gonna have crazy time travel Multiverse stuff in it. Yeah, and this is why I'm always worried about Deadpool 3 I can never be like in a position of actually being excited If with his advice and you had what's her face chick here Saying what about that one prisoner who won't shut up and you think that people will think that means Deadpool What's funny is I wouldn't have Um because I would have been like oh is this someone we're seeing later like brad Yeah, is this like a brad is who I thought of like they might think of some brad-esque character or just someone we have yet to meet I'm not like oh Deadpool he's loquacious. He'll he's the one that she's referring to of course deadpools at the those the tv a Well, you know what he wants to say free. He wants her to say what about the merc with a mouth Then we That's what he wants. Yeah, that's what he wants. It would be painful and cringe and just yeah like how about no And I'm starting to think like is he advocating for small connectivity stuff because he believes they've nailed the broad ones Like maybe you know, for example the blip nobody in this fucking planet now believes they handle that well Right, but that's like the primary issue of connectivity. They fucked it completely You have written a check for yourself You know what you cannot cash if you'd said top five things to do to save the mcu number five was fix the repercussions of the blip We'd probably be like, yeah Yeah, okay I mean it's a bit difficult now because you need to decanonize a lot of them saying it doesn't matter But you know that that that was a significant example of not respecting the events of past The events in the in the universe, but no we need to nail the parts where little characters saying little things on little scenes Get that right Step one to saving it I'll go deal with him later, and then we don't have to check on him But it's like, oh right Deadpool and these guys know each other connections are what made the early mcu so popular This is wrong again, that's like, how is he focusing on no Not really is it not true, but even if he believes it's true Why is he focusing on telephone calls that don't have any substance to them other than just saying those two characters will interact later But he's not talking about the blip Yeah, it's it's fascinating But again, if he actually does believe that what made the mcu popular was like this shit in the first place then Yeah, you have to remind people you're like, oh Iron Man was like good. Did you know that? Captain America is a good movie Avengers a good movie like these things really helped, you know crazy It's like no it was the connectivity like oh, okay And there's something that while it doesn't need to completely pull focus it can't fully fade into the background either Number two Make more Avengers movies. Um, this is not what he thinks. It's not what he thinks Okay, let's see. Let's see what he actually because because yeah bad title if that's not what you mean Because that was not at our 10. None of us were if you're asking freaky, and I we wouldn't be like they need more Avengers movies Well, yeah, I was gonna say I don't even know who the Avengers are Exactly like the more Avengers Let's see what he means Obviously, yes making more movies in the Avengers line. The most successful title in film history is a good idea The most successful hold up the most successful title In game Take over it again or whatever What was the avatar? Sorry? Avatar did but then end game got above it again That little fight they have. All right. Let's see. It looks like highest grossing movie of all time It's end game. Yeah end game number one But uh, I guess he's so yeah, I mean, yeah, it's meant a lot of money Well, so if his only point is it's a smart thing to do because it makes money, right? It's like Sure, yes, but the thing is like it was smart to do all kinds of things in the mcu that they don't make smart decisions anymore I think it is avatar No Is it I think these multiple lists are multiple lists are saying avatar is is beaten But what does wikipedia say? Um, let me look at wiki. Let me look at wikipedia I'm talking about is a little more avatar. Yep avatar is beaten it out by Let's see 2.92 billion to 2.79 billion So they're close They like re-released again Because I remember that the thing was didn't tell you before way of water came out. Um Oh, okay, so oh Yeah, maybe because yeah, avatar. Okay, which almost seems unfair to release it a second time. So that's really funny Hey, well, you know, there's a lot of reasons why box office that was unfair in terms of a comparison In a lot of ways. I guess it just isn't sporting. You know, well remember inflation destroys the entire record like I guess I'm I guess I've gone with the wing this number one. I think No, probably not History man avatar two made 2.3 billion dollars Holy shit, I Is responsible for three of the top four movies. Yeah, that's right Hey, look when avatar was coming out that was like the meme he made titanic that made a lot of money Did you know that he made the highest grossing film and now he's made the next film Back in the day Oh, yeah, right It says here that gone with the wind held the record of highest grossing film for 25 years and adjusted for inflation Has earned more than any other film. Yeah, adjust for inflation. So number one Um, and like star wars, you know, the new hope is really high up adjust for inflation I'm the most successful title in film history is a good idea But what I'm talking about is a little more complicated But here before we go into this he needs to realize what made it the most successful name Well, how did that happen the connectivity? That didn't happen out of nowhere. Oh, it's true. But after credit scenes. Yeah Basically you taught us how to watch these movies you invented the cinematic universe And when you did you structured them like this solo movies solo movies sequel solo movie solo movie avengers There's some variation there Sometimes there are more sequels than solo movies and sometimes a movie follows the avengers movie Sometimes there are even two avengers movies, but the formulas stayed the same always at least one avengers Bringing I think with inching to legal point I I feel like we are inching towards my point here. Yeah, which point are you referring to number three Clear overall narrative structure like with you know phases one two three Yes, they he might be he's on the cast because I can see this going multiple ways, but he just might be Full movie near the end and you may be saying well, that's all great But we already have the slate lined up can dynasty is phase six. I can't push it up A yes, he could but not the point but b I'm not talking about making new movies or changing the order. I'm talking about branding Kevin do you have any movies in phase five that maybe could be called avengers? It's wow. He he's being like literal Wait, so he's saying we need to take advantage of the avengers ip The name avengers by calling things This is this is why i'm not sure you get a point for you because this is oh my god He did something unbelievable A bit a better point. This is a little uh, this is a little more unhinged than I was expecting as like It is I Maybe there's one of these films in phase five that you could change from like some set of captain america Just call it avengers new People joke right about calling captain america civil war avengers four three at that point five two point five Why do why do they make that joke is like well because it has all the avengers characters in it And it was pretty fucking good like it's it's it's a good entry and it's uh It's a big event and it's like it would have made some sense to call that an avengers movie You could have yeah, I think it has a hell of a lot of value calling it. It's a captain america movie, you know Well, we could have been in a position where you could have applied that to a lot of the movies But we're not and and the the reality of let's just start stapling avengers as a title onto movies in order To boost them in terms of popularity engagement and box office is sad Um, not only is it sad. It's profoundly stupid. Um, it's like insanely stupid avengers at this point I imagine from like someone like kevin feige's perspective is this thing that you don't know yet What its value is now in the market? It's how much is avengers worth as a brand now in the market And if you just start yeah actually going that's an avengers movie. That's an avengers movie You're gonna ruin that brand. Yes. Yeah. This is like their last dish attempt I I think we kind of talked about this. Um I forget when and where a lot of these discussions kind of blend together in terms of you know What happened? It's not in a bad way, but I think we had said something about how if they If they bank on using the avengers, they'll ruin that name And that's kind of like their last ditch effort potentially of really revitalizing the mcu The problem is you cannot the avengers isn't A super compartmentalized thing The reason avengers worked is because we established all the characters And then had them connect and then meet and then we actually had an investment in the meeting The problem now is that you can't just slap avengers on something because people don't know who the avengers are The avengers their avengers are Specific people that you put on the poster that has all the people and the very iconic You know here they are either in the street and they're looking around and black water reloads are gone And all guys got the bow and everything and that that's one of the most iconic scenes in I guess film history at this point I'd probably say but it was built up. It didn't come out of nowhere. You got to build this up You can't just slap it on something and think oh, well, I guess because monica And captain marvel and whoever whoever the fuck it would be because we've called it avengers now people care Yeah, that's how it works and every time you ruin it for your future self every time you slap that label onto something That doesn't have the impact of an avengers film It completely like annihilate like the half-life of it will degrade so fucking fast. It'll be worthless Yeah, you're gonna screw over your future. It's the reason why I I guess I find it interesting that there's speculation Oh, they're setting up young avengers My guess is they're not going to call it that because that would dilute the brand of avengers if you had a young avengers film And they'll be like, wait young avengers. Is this like an avengers movie? That doesn't sound like an avengers When the next avengers come along, it's like, oh I want to watch it We know they've traded villains Uh potential protagonists like and how the teams will work and the writers and directors for the next avengers film The way I see it is they're all aware Avengers is pretty much their last hope outside of two-degree Daredevil as well, right with uh born again outside of Deadpool and death It's a it's a token they haven't spent yet and they've held it since end game Which is better times that was the best times for them from their pov, right? So when they've got that they're like there's a big table all the different people who have any kind of impact on the design of this film They're all holding cards and they're like, okay, Sam Raimi and then someone else goes Maybe what can we get a director that we maybe have more experience or control with and they set that down I was like, oh this this is like they all publicize like, okay writers this guy Well, his movie didn't do as well as it could have it's like this guy's like, yeah, that could work It's like this actor this team what I'm trying to get at is like Do you really think they're really nearly gonna throw avengers on top of fucking dr. Strange 3 for example? Or alternatively because it was something that he mentioned that we went past because we're waiting to see what his full point was He said you could just move up Kang dynasty It's like, oh you could just move that up no problems at all No problems for what even Marvel would consider their story integrity and no problems in terms of like scheduling Or any of the things that are already in the pipeline You could just arbitrarily move up an avengers film when these films have been moved back Because they're not ready to make them yet Absolutely like and he thinks that that would solve their problems if you pushed forward And fast-tracked a 400 million dollar Big like crossover movie when your story is in shambles and you're not making as much money anymore And people are criticizing you for your production methods And the outcomes like with the visual effects everything being rushed and It's it's just crazy. He said oh, well, you could just move it up like it's arbitrary Like they just The date he made this video eight days ago. Yep, it's new king dynasty I don't know if that's even gonna happen because they don't have Yeah, that's a good point So why would if he made this video eight days ago, why would you say? Yeah, just push up king dine king dynasty is like, I don't think that nothing can even exist now Yeah, there's so many this is what I mean We don't even like the way that they make shit But that we have to I respect the fact that these processes can we use Jonathan majors? It's like well, it's complicated right now There's a lot of things that you know when they were deciding it fired Well, that's what I'm going to get now is when they were creating like the the structure they were like Yeah, king dynasty, but because how long ago did this start with Jonathan majors? It's like two years Yeah I think it was shortly Point being is that was we know from the fact that they delayed the fucking assembled right behind the scenes video We know that that that screwed them up completely the uh, don't the major stuff So like you have to respect that that that's a thing Well right now they're probably having conversations of do we recast kang or do we pivot do we change from kang to someone else? And they're probably asking this even more so now because of how badly everything's going of like fuck people Don't like this multiverse stuff that yeah, they might even be waiting to see how Deadpool 3 goes for them For they're like actually decide whether they want to cut off the multiverse stuff and then move on to something else And like if you want to put Because I think they're late with Avengers They should have had one by now And you could have you like what storyline would you have picked if you had to from phase 4 and 5 to? tweak into a an avengers film Maybe like I mean I guess the thing is is that secret invasion wouldn't be something that would be tweaked But I would have probably made that an avengers film with massive setup leading up to it if I I'd like to think Not the story as it is But like Secret invasion in the comic book storyline is equivalent to something like civil war in terms of a big crossover event So that probably gives you big potential If you're gonna do it And then and then you can leverage a lot of your cosmic characters that you already have Um if we were going to take something that exists Right now and then and then turn it into something but again, it wouldn't be tweaking. It would be a totally different story completely rewritten Yeah, well that was kind of the the point to be made with any of these choices I'd imagine but um You could have gone no way home could have been it I suppose instead of a spider-man film We just add in a bunch more of the characters strange, you know Avengers and the multi-person Yeah, you could do that But uh, I guess the reality we're talking about here is had they done that let's say with multi-person madness And it was as good Which would be like, yeah, the avengers name is worth less now than it was The problem of course is that avengers is built on all these other ip's that have all been degraded So there's still I think this goes for star wars too We haven't seen yet the damage that has actually been done, but we know it's there Well, yeah, because this is what it will be the next avengers film comes out and who are you going to put on the poster Who's going to be on the poster for that and who's going to get excited like oh captain marvel and um and shiholk and uh sheng chi and uh yelena and um Like miss marvel. Oh what in the oh and and we got captain falcon as well Wow, what an exciting team compared to oh look at my man. I'm loved iron man. Oh shit like it's captain america That was cool movie Oh, oh, and of course the fact that that was the first time that it had happened that was working That's something that's worth emphasizing is that avengers had the benefit of novelty that novelty is gone Yeah now end game and infinity war got the novelty of being much bigger than the Continuations of that same story in a way the same well Age of ultron I think people expected more In terms of like it being a bigger thing But then infinity war comes along and it massively expanded the roster to the point that it was novel again But like obviously end game is sort of like a critical mass in terms of you can't push it any further Yeah, we can only be in this theater for so long and also the movie sucks balls So And you know it's really interesting looking at this particular screenshot now that we've entered, you know, february of 2024 and you're looking at like oh echo that got pushed way back that didn't come out in the summer And then you're like blade. That's not out. I am hard heart. That's not at all I think that's coming out next year and blade is yeah far away and then you got agatha and it's like oh I guess it's like I guess that's coming out sometime this year and captain america is now delayed by over a year I think and dead devil is not coming out in a couple of months It is uh, it's interesting looking at this with hindsight be like coming out next year Like half of this stuff is But oh if only they knew if only that man on the stage knew if all these were bangers It we would then and they they bait the avengers is coming right after thunderbolts in new world order The hype would be unreal That's not the problem. It's not it's not about where avengers sits or where we're using it as an ip It's so insane to think that avengers is power Is built on all the other things that come before it exactly Um not like exclusively of course if avengers itself is just a really good movie on its own built on a bunch of bad movies I guess that would still work. It's just we're talking about maximum profits here And so to address the issue is not to say we need more avengers. It's to address the fucking script right in and all of these They're all fucking bad Yeah, maybe just kind of hand waves it away at the beginning But yeah, it's crazy that he did was just the most important foundational key It should be five things marvel can do to save the mcu and all five things are in regards to writing better stories and scripts I mean, that's the video that should have been made instead of what seems to be Slap the words the avengers on a movie and I guess cross your fingers And hope for the best. I told you if we switched out, uh, spider-man and quanta mania as avengers You know five and six Avengers as an ip will be fucked by now But I think it'll be fucked anyway the second they finally pull the trigger and release it. It's gonna be bad Probably in more ways than just the script will be bad I mean like in a financial and pragmatic and the it'll show everyone will start making videos Like is the mcu fucked like doomed going down And i'm sure he'll make a video saying you know what it's time to admit it the mcu is kind of a disaster Yeah called avengers it's especially easy now because nobody knows who the avengers are No, how do you say these things? Who is this guy? I mean, I guess technically it's really easy to just slap the avengers on anything because who the fuck are the avengers? I guess they're the avengers now because we slapped the title on it. Boom filmmaking is easy I think what's so funny to a wacky video is the We can all kind of agree Captain falcon is going to be in the avengers Captain marvel probably like pretty likely Um, dr. Strange. Yep. Yep. He'll be there. Yeah In fact he might and and then it's like spider-man. It's like, well, we don't know what's happened What's fight a man at the moment? They are we don't know maybe I don't I don't I don't know if would she would she hold being the avengers I don't know. I guess they still technically have the hulk is around Uh, yeah, I guess he'd be in it because I guess mark ruffalo would just do it I I suppose so I don't know what he's up to these days. Um Would Thor be in avengers would he be in another? I think he's gone. I think he's going to be off doing his own thing. I think I put him in the maybe pile Yeah, I think it's maybe 10. It's like it depends. I think he is he has been extracted from the mcu Maybe if they want to get their shit together and allow him to play a fucking character Then you're so sad too because not only is he invested in doing so, but he's a really good actor It's like use him. Please I mean, that's what he that's what he said he said like you gotta have to I'll only do Thor if you treat him seriously Which is so funny that we're back to let's take him seriously, please There was a time where people said thank fuck Thor is not no longer being taken so seriously, but that's That's a dead time I'll bet nando said that We need some levity Definitely involved and I assume hulk and hawke. I are grandfathered in but that's it. So Because they're alive Jeremy renner can I think he's I think he's recovered a lot actually But I guess that's the thing is is he's is he's still interested Well, he's not I don't I doubt he's recovered in a sense of doing what hawke I was doing before He's probably recovered in a sense that you'll turn up and talk Be able to do it and be a part of it. Yeah, I'll hold up. I just put from six days ago People magazine Jeremy renner talks returning to mcu after harrowing recovery from snell plow accident Says if they want me. Yeah snell plow. It moves all the snow out of the way He said if they want me they could have me renner said of his marvel castmates adding that it would be something Okay, so yeah, it looks like he's uh, he said he's I'm always game. He's 53 He looks like a he definitely looks like a good 53 too Um Waste of the mcu to be honest with you. Absolutely. He says I'm always game. Uh, I'm gonna be strong enough. That's for sure I'll be ready So, all right. Yeah, it looks like he's got he has a that's excellent. That's really good news That's really excellent. Yeah, because I remember at the beginning when after the accident happened It sounded like Very very very Like nearly impossible to get back to like a place of normalcy. So that's really good that he's recovered Yeah, I'm very glad And it happened as well because he was trying to save somebody or something Uh, I remember that being the case. Yeah Oh, yeah, best of this is the thing best of luck to him in life, but also like hopefully in career as well mm Captain america new world order. Why are we not calling this movie avengers new world? Oh, wow that is literally what I said Yeah I Should get a pity point for that like a people. Yeah, or something That's what the brave new world asterisk, uh, they changed the name. It was cool new And now it's a new world and now they're reshooting the like the all this huxley novel. What? I don't know that film sounds like it's a disaster like this. They're reshooting like the majority of the film Right now. Like it's crazy And slapping it at the end of phase five They'll probably have a bunch of avengers in it and for that reason You know what it probably won't have a bunch of avengers in it. It probably won't it'll have We don't even know who the avengers are. Yeah, maybe maybe that movie will be the one that kind of helps establish Who I don't think it will I don't think it will I think it'll I think that a lot of the speculation people out of Oh, maybe hawker sharp and stuff I think it would just be that he's in it And then you'll have like maybe a couple of new characters that they introduce and maybe one other character shows up And I don't even know if bucky will show up because he's doing thunderbolts That would be my guess that it's actually not going to be avengers scale at all So why not treat it like one or let's get creative thunderbolts Cool name if you've already read the comics and know the team But if you don't it's a movie about zeus's weapon from love and thunder, I guess That's not even what came to my mind But I thought thunderbolts was meant to be like marvel suicide squad. I thought that's what it was It's weird because I'm thinking about what comes to mind when I hear that But I don't even think anything comes to mind because I don't even know what that really is Well, most people don't know what I think about lightning mcqueen I um if you would ask me when I knew nothing about any of it. I just said like I don't know is the team I don't know. I guess people said it's a joke, but he said before that he thought hercules was going to be in thunderbolts So is it a joke? Well, I guess what they're trying to say is he's playing coy with the idea that most people wouldn't know What they are and they might just assume it's about zeus's thunderbolts Most people don't know who guardians of the galaxy were before guardians of the galaxy. I mean, it's a worthless point. It doesn't Nobody remembers nobody remembers Fucking the rossel crow was in a marvel movie. I don't remember that We've addressed what the point is which people don't don't recognize the thunderbolts, which is just like I don't think that matters Uh one way or the other whether or not it's good. Well, yeah Well, that's the thing is that if all of these things were good, you can introduce anyone like say guardians of the galaxy And they could people would be really interested and they could become crowd favorites when really no one knew who they were but now They they have to bank on recognizability, but they've burned so many You know cards that they're really running out. That's why I mean the fringy saying x-men is one of his five It's literally like a really good probability here I hope so because zero points is not I don't like it But really it's about a team much like the avengers assembled by val to do bad guy stuff Probably why are we not calling this movie dark avengers? Why are we not calling this movie dark avengers? Because that dude, this is so funny. This is just like terrible business strategy. It's the opposite of what we would advise This is yeah, and this is baby. This is muppet babies is what it is Seriously though, if you were in strict producer, I just want to make money. I don't give a shit about like the art mode Why would you call anything any variation of avengers? Why would you not leave avengers? Well, there's room for it in the comic world, especially when the expansion of like loads of Universes and stuff, but in the film front avengers and daredevil are the only names they have left What's and deadpool? Yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen with that. I'm not sure But I guess I guess the point being I think That it would be a strictly bad financial decision to have any variants of avengers as like a thing I think would be a terrible idea to do like dark avengers or secret avengers or west coast avengers or Young avengers. I think all these are bad financial decisions Because all that they do is make it so that when you do the avengers film for real People will be like well, I saw that like dark avengers film and that was fucking crap and didn't seem like an avengers film at all So now I don't And I'm not gonna watch the new avengers film because I I just don't believe that it's gonna matter You need to keep avengers special Kind of in the same way that rock star has now made like grand theft auto like a once in a decade game that comes out And that that bestows a level of uniqueness and specialness to it That is um impossible like call of duty doesn't have a specialness to it. It's fucking call of duty They make a new one every year. It's it's nothing. It's like synonymous with fast food Exactly, meanwhile grand theft auto is like well, fuck the last grand theft auto game was a decade ago So if they announce a new one that means something also This is terrible advice just a brief search as well darker veg is the team Like do you know who's in it for you? Do the comics I don't We got just to name a couple bullseye greek goblin sentry moonstone trick shot starlet witch Aries a villain team not an anti-hero team. It is also john walker is a fucking hero and bucky is a hero So no, no that anti-heroes that anti-heroes according to the mcu bucky is an anti-hero Doesn't make any sense bucky. He's he's not even also yelena yelena is not an anti-hero She was a victim and then a hero What the what exactly are we to believe about um ghost? Is she Every time I mentioned I want to make sure because people just have to be like which was that Mother wake up slap slap you wake up ghost two from the the left there She in her movie She was willing to kill people to save herself from the horrible fate that she had it got solved by the end so now Is she a good guy? Now she's an anti-hero or something I guess funny because when marvel wants to do anti-heroes it picks several people who are not anti-heroes While realizing that that the actual anti-heroes slash villains are the people that they think are the heroes Like she Hulk Taskmaster was blind controlled Exactly So not really the only But but in that character was made to be disposable in that movie. Yeah, it's just so funny that they're like Ah, yes, it's the anti-hero too, but it's like what are you talking about most of these people? good guys Meanwhile, you've got these This selection of people if you had them in a room, right first thing I'd expect is task Mastered just run off. I don't even like they've got this shit to deal with they wouldn't be here Uh, bucky would be like, why am I here? What is what is even going on? And then when they presented with we need to steal a bunch of flutflonium from the The the avengers stronghold and it's gonna help us power a weapon that will defeat an evil that's greater than anything They could handle there's a bit of a dodgy dubious task. I could just see them all be like Why are we here? What is going on like who put this together? Why don't we just tell the avengers you're the government to do it? Yeah, well John Walker is like an actually a heroic person. So I I I don't I don't know what you can do with this cast of you You're gonna have to well This is part of the process of you have to give me a reason to think all of these characters would meet Interact with each other and then form some kind of a camaraderie Yeah Because the thrust for whatever reason this team exists is going to be set up at the beginning of their movie I guess well tv show. What do you think I If you were to tell me before like infinity war What would happen if Thor and rocket were like in a room like I could imagine like I can imagine Drax and like black widow having a conversation Because they're they're characters. Yeah, right. I know things about them I could imagine how that conversation would play out if you're asking me What would bucky say to task master? I'd be like I've not know what that even looks like what's that's what would you lay in this say to john walker I don't I don't know what's that is that you can actually do something with it But it would take a lot of right It's like so what's the connection they could possibly have is like well mine mental manipulation of some kind But what they've experienced the two of them are completely different like uh And what what they've taken away from it as people and what parts of the world you're involved But the thing is like what do you know about task? Do you know anything about her? She was Going it out as well as it's a boring team in the sense that all of them basically have the same ability That most of them are just super soldiers Punch punch. Yeah, the girls have different abilities kind of but I mean they're still Punching When she should yeah Well, yeah, because task master is meant to be able to and of course if you had the real task master I could imagine a lot of interesting interactions between him and many of the characters here Because and of course it'd be interesting because it's like goddamn That's like you never know what you can expect but with this one this lame one that they made I can't believe they did that. Why wouldn't you use real task master? Why why would you why the fuck did they do what they did? That's It's an older question at this point At the point being if they called this film dark avengers and then it came out Which it would be confusing to a lot of people because people would be like, what do you mean dark avengers? Yeah, like mind-controlled avengers or Yeah, none of them are mind-controlled anymore. Well, and they're not reflections either You wouldn't be like, oh, there's the equivalent of blah blah blah. It's like, no, there's just a bunch of random characters from films You don't remember Yeah, and if they did that and then it came out and it was just like a normal shitty marvel movie That didn't feel like it was a big deal then you're fucked You you you fucked up big time like now when the actual avengers movie rolls around people are going to be like Oh, well Because remember you gotta remember what general audiences are gonna think they're gonna think Well, I watched that film that said it was avengers, but like that wasn't really like an avengers movie at all And it kind of sucks. So fuck it. I don't feel like what I mean I feel like they are holding on to the avengers Token and they're gonna spend it as best they think they can they're not gonna throw it onto dark Avengers or young avengers or Avengers the holiday special Yeah, like this this is this is actually a terrible. This is like a remarkably bad idea Um, well, yeah, and I don't think that any of us would have predicted this one Like if we were given 10 each and they had to be different No, no way. Um I could have imagined I could have maybe imagined that there needs to be more avengers films, but not in this context No, no, it would just be like An avengers like a regular avengers film should have happened sooner not We actually need to start doing variations. I just don't think they will I think they'll come up with new team names Whenever they want to do something that's approaching an idea from the comics of like an adjacent avengers team Although, you know, like midnight suns or something, but not not avengers Why are we not calling this movie dark avengers? It even apparently has this entry who was never on the thunderbolts But was on the dark avengers. Why are we over complicating this? Why is that the why are we over complicating it? But why are we? Why was the presence of sentry a reason to call it darker red avengers? Nobody even knows that He's the one who proposed dark avengers and then said why are we over complicating things? It's like motherfucker. You're the one who made this up. You can't it's not you Right from his pov if we have avengers and we move into avengers and thunderbolts as opposed to Avengers and dark avengers that the thunderbolts one is more complicated Which it's not it's not I think it's more complicated to have dark avengers because obviously everyone's heads go to Are they mind controlled? Are they alternate reality? Are they clones? Are they robot versions? Are they people who've gone bad? It's like thunderbolts. Like what is that? You know, it's just like a bad guy team, but anti hero team. Oh, okay And if we're thinking about names more generally some of the names of phase five and six might need work If this thunderbolts team is going to consist largely of characters from the black widow movie Why are we not calling this movie black widow 2 colon thunderbolts? It's Wait, wait, sorry. Can we can I just hear that? Yeah, I need to hear that again I think we should call thunderbolts black widow 2 colon thunderbolts. There'll be a better use of ip I think that's a worse use of ip. That's like really confusing Especially when it's mostly Characters from black widow. It's got a disproportionate number of characters from black widow But it's not a black widow team. What is john walker? or Bucky or ghost have to do with black widow. That's stupid That's a stupid idea. It's also kind of I don't know. It feels weird to say the task master is a black widow at this point, you know Yeah, not really a character She had the training That's a terrible idea black widow 2 thunderbolts. That sounds stupid It also I think we'd be saying like wait thunderbolts their own thing. They're not black widows thing Yeah, exactly. That's fucking that's a that's a stupid idea Yeah, but it uses more ip. You should you know call it avengers black widow thunderbolts And if we're thinking about names more generally some of the names of phase 5 and 6 might need work If this thunderbolt, can you believe we're back at taco bell again? Like this is we're not talking about what matters Uh, yeah, I feel If you had a healthy cinematic universe I don't you'd have to work hard to pick a name that would like damage Your your cinematic universe, you know, like you'd have to really fuck up. I feel Olds team is going to consist largely of characters from the black widow movie Why are we not calling this movie black widow 2 colon thunderbolts? Yelena wears black now. Let's say Yelena wears black. So there you go Oh This is a joke video The new black widow and now immediately people have a sense for what this is. No, they don't what do you mean? Oh, I don't know what the fuck that means If the film was called black widow 2 and it was about Yelena on her own That would make a lot of sense to people. It'd be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah She wears black. Oh, well, it would make sense because she's in it and she wears black and also black and she's as uh lucky and uh, and Captain America Who knows what people are supposed to think at that point. I can't believe that's the advice, you know I can fix it on the bolts movie call it black widow 2 you're like You did it you save the mc didn't black widow struggled to make the money back It did it did but you could blend that on covid times, but have you released black widow 2 today? I reckon it makes 400 300 million dollars. Maybe it's maybe yeah What they need to watch to understand it and if black widow was positively received which more or less was this is something And again another no, it was um, but also another problem that I think marvel is going to start having is You know after this movie's done Florence, do you want to do this or does she want to like do other things that are Like more worthwhile that she can do and get paid money for Like a lot of money for you know, let me ask you a question for you What do you think was the most popularly shared element of black widow's a film when it came out on social media? I know Florence pews. Yelena. Yeah What do you mean when you say that Just heard that she was a really good actress and the people like the character not the answer I was going to give I was going to give either it would also be Florence pew. Yes. My ass is going to include forest It would it would not be a grandiose moment for her. No, it would be her flying away from the explosion of the helicopter All right, I yeah, that's true My point of course being what it was coming out. Everybody was making fun of it That's true So the idea that he was like more or less well received like more less than more Something audiences will look forward to why was captain marvel 2 called the marvels captain marvel 1 made because no one gives a Fuck about captain I agree with him that this was probably a tremendous mistake in a sense to call it the marvels. That's a weird name To explain this one I think it's because of the fact that this was set in stone really early on and they thought we've got so much power We can start launching anything and that we're going to launch the marvels as a new team And how cool is it that we have avengers and our first new proper hero team is going to be all women Like i'm sure they felt really good about that and that now it's crashed and burned and so they're like fuck Um, well, I mean old captain marvels like popularity, which wasn't much at all because they misunderstood why she Got a billion with her movie So yeah, I think that's why that happened They wouldn't have called it the marvels if they were planning to release it today as in like a In planning state they wouldn't they wouldn't make it at all, but if they were they wouldn't have called it that Probably not because it's I mean marvel studio is the marvels. It's just a weird name Yeah, it's it's it's bad. Yeah, you're using that word too much And now I don't really know what it means Well, that would be an example of why they shouldn't call things avengers because when you start calling things marvel and they fucking suck Like regardless of whether they're actually like a broadly, you know Meant to be reflective of marvel as a whole, you know Captain marvel being a lame movie and then the marvels being a massive failure That hurts the word marvel, which you don't want to hurt because that's your brand I feel like this is a good example of why we shouldn't just randomly call things avengers movies Well, I'm surprised he hasn't said because it sounds like it would be in line with his thinking This is an awful idea by the way that we should have called the marvels avengers Five, you know subtitle the marvels or something like that And we have the same story, but we plug in a bunch more avengers, you know We've got to defeat darben and we got to use the power of dr. Strange and whoever else to blah blah blah blah He's using the word of the of like he wants to use the avengers in the same way that the words Disney presents is on the poster Which is a fucking blight and it won't be long before avengers is a blighted name as well If they release two movies that are shit, that'll be it It's much easier to destroy a franchise ip than it is to build it up In a lot of money, why not use that to your advantage call it captain marvel 2 galactic boogaloo You know what that's right if you want to release the next captain if you want to release the next captain marvel movie in between the equivalents of Avengers infinity war and avengers endgame man feel free go for it But uh until you do that, I feel like you don't have that much room to work with one for the records Uh, they cut off the box office recordings for the numbers for this at 200 million, right? So we didn't even know exactly what it made But for the sake of the argument, let's just take a 200 million How much more do you believe it would have made if it were called captain marvel 2? Maybe like 20 30 million. Yeah, I think it would be More but really not much I could see it going. Yeah any sort of way. I don't know Blue or something why is armor wars not called war machine? Nobody knows what armor wars is That's not I mean we don't do it this way We don't do it based on what people know the titles Does anyone know what civil war referred to in the comics specifically in the general audience before we had the movies Like you don't have to armor wars I feel like you can interpret some stuff Yeah, I assume it'll be like war machine iron man iron heart One and the politics related to it possibly, you know something further than that it doesn't I'm almost now at the point where I'm like, why do we have to know exactly what these things are going to be before? We see them if the whole point is to make good things that people want to see anyway Well, that's not how movies typically work. It's not the norm for movies normally you you see a trailer Or you get an announcement and you're like, oh this could be interesting and then you go and see it It's not like you have to have it drip fed by a different movie telling you what is to come in this other movie Well, when someone tells you rags, you should see American fiction. You'd be like, you know what that's about, don't you? You're like, no I have no clue. Watch the trailer. You'd be like, oh, yeah. Well now I know what it's about It's like, I don't understand this attitude. This is not what saves the mcu by letting people know what's coming next Like using ip this way so weird the ip's are generated powers by being about a good thing Yeah, you need to focus less on telling people what comes next at the end of the movie and get them to think I really enjoyed what it was that I just watched I think he's got it backwards I think the the content being amazing and the marketing being amazing is what generates the power of the ip Like it's uh, I think so the ip's power generates the quality of the movie already They go the interest of people seeing it necessarily. Well, it's funny that that's true That's it's funny that because I think calling the batman movie in the the dcu the brave and the bold is a bad idea I think it should be called batman Well, so something something when we just said the the marvels being called captain marvel would likely get it a little bit more money At least relatively, uh, this is not something we're denying the the factors though. This is all a smokescreen What's important right now? Oh, yeah, fucking good. This won't help you tremendously No, but there were some amount of a bit of clear communication to some extent can be useful hence Yeah, I I don't know if calling a batman film the brave and the bold instead of like batman the brave and the bold even though I know that's a what about the what about the man and the bat Uh, wait, what what okay, all right. What about the bat and the man? Uh, why would it be called bat? I want just like an idea for a title Yeah, yeah, instead of calling the brave and the batman the brave and the bold just call it the bat and the man Alternatively the man in the back. Hmm. I guess kind of mix the two together so they know what they're getting into My guess is the reason why they want to call it that is because so many films at this point have been called batman They're like it's It's starting to be like do you want to just call it batman because that's a film that already exists But I don't know I feel like I feel like that's a name you'd want to take advantage of at any opportunity Like wow not at any opportunity. You don't want to have a movie called batman batwoman or something That would be not a good idea Use your most recognizable brand to sell these movies and then it won't be the most And then you ruin the brand. Yeah, and then the brand can't sell movies Short-term thinking was what got us into this mess Nick fury was a big player in spider-man far from home, but we didn't call it fury and spider branding matters Yeah, we wouldn't call it. Yes. You're right. We didn't we didn't call that because it's a spider-man movies. We called it spider-man Yeah, exactly. What in the world nick fury is that's like. Oh, yeah, that's neat Well, here's a question if if madame web was called spider-man madame web. Do you think that would? It probably would but it would then damage the spider-man ip Yeah, because then people would be like, well, I they told me spider-man was in it and he wasn't I feel lied to This is an actual thing. It's so funny to see this like we treat it as though ip can't can't be drained of its power It's just constant We watched batman and spider-man essentially fight each other over decades for being like top dog Yeah, exactly. And and that's been a matter. I mean amazing spider-man too, right? Like that didn't do that well No, it's like, oh what happened? It's like well when you make spider-man movies that aren't good Like that's to us to heard the perception of spider-man as a whole I guess homecoming should have been called avengers because i-man wasn't avengers homecoming. Yeah Oh, avengers spider-man homecoming. Why can't I make the argument? I'd be like, well vulture's an avengers bad guy at that point in the narrative He was created by them someone and spider-man is trying to join the avengers and his arc relates to him Understanding his his nature within the avengers i-man is in it. It's an avengers film. There you go Avengers and it's a the avengers will draw more money and then spider-man, you know because spider-man for us The whole thing feels so consumer like to the point that we're getting to a film that's called marvel studios avengers cross spider-man The thunderbolts return Eternals to like yeah, they name it like they're like they're tagging an image for an art site or something And it helps set expectations number three Make at least one movie for less than 150 million dollars. Wow. Holy shit. I was not ready for that I don't think either of you mentioned budgets at all. So oh, yeah, that sounds reasonable. So I wasn't ready for that. Yeah Well, I still don't actually This isn't even the advice to give I don't think the advice to give is Budget better be more careful spend yeah reason and intention because it was like So no good movie for them can be made with 150 millions that'll little generate loads of money It's like well, no, it's not that it is it is seriously because telling them that they cap at 150 million doesn't necessarily solve the problem No, you need you need more the advice here should be Careful like take more time to carefully spend your money on things that matter I do find it funny that in his mind a reasonable budget is like 150 million or less compared to something like 100 million or less or 50 million Dude, I'd love to cap 10 movies at 10 million and we That would be brave and bold. That would be cool And I'm pretty sure it would yeah, I'm pretty sure one of them would create a banger and then we'd be good Again, it's I mean, there's a reason why jason bloom is uh, it's a bloom or blum I keep saying bloom, but I there's a reason why he's one of the most successful producers right now It's because he turns around he makes movies for not much money and then they make a fuck ton of money Shotgun producer and you know, yeah Well, yeah, he makes a lot of stuff that's you know, it's like alright, but but What a master hit there's a lesson there of you don't need to spend 200 million dollars You can you can spend way less money and then the risk of failure is way lower And the upside of success is tremendous Yeah, and you could make a lot of movie for not as much money as people are led to believe and disney played a huge role in that mindset Um, yeah It's a bold idea that you spend less than 150 million dollars in this guy's mind Like that would not be budget better That's that's it. Basically you shouldn't be spending 250 million dollars on secret invasion shihawk. That's a terrible idea Yeah, but you could still end up at 300 million and it was actually a good idea because the thing itself was incredible And it's going to make like 2 billion or something You know, it's going to make more billion dollars So he just needs to be about how you spend the money and not make sure it's under 150 million because fuck it if if Quantum mania and love and thunder were both 140 million. It's like that doesn't solve anything I guess what i'm curious about is I wonder if he's going to praise sony because sony's movies They're marvel movies are not as expensive as as Like I think venom and venom too It's something like a hundred like in the realm of a hundred million dollars And both of those films made a lot of money and then of course across the spider verse I think was in the realm of about a hundred million as well So cheaper than a lot of uh cheaper than like a pixar film I wonder if he's and of course, of course, good old morbius was uh Good old morbius was a relatively expensive film. It's still failed, but hey, that you know, they spent $200 million $75 million. Yeah, imagine if they spent $200 million that would be an even bigger disaster for them Well the box office. I think the box office of the movie was It was like a hundred fifty something like that Let's see. Yeah Which is not good enough But if it was if it cost $200 million then it would have been a spectacular failure rather than a kind of failure Yeah, it's just just a dud Like look at the next few years of marvel It is difficult to find a movie I would not expect to cost over a hundred fifty million dollars and that's before It's difficult to find a movie that costs less than 200 million most of them cost more I am so disinterested in this point because it's just about how Budgets of balloons you need to be more careful. That's it. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go p Actually, yeah, that's okay. We'll let you know if you miss anything significant Before marketing, but look at Deadpool 3 these films star ryan reynolds. Wait Deadpool 3 Look at Deadpool. I thought he was gonna point Deadpool cost 50 million dollars. That's the one you point to cost 50 million dollars. It was like And then it made like 800 million dollars But this one this Deadpool movie is gonna cost like probably sure on the plus star ryan reynolds And this one is bringing in Hugh jackman. There's tons of expensive cameos Stuff this movie costs money. Then we've got cap four. It's a captain america movie. I thought he was gonna say look at the difference I was gonna point to Deadpool. Yeah Yeah Captain america flies around we've got a red hulk lots of other weird superpowers probably harrison fort is in this one Also, probably tons of cameos. This is also going to be expensive after that phantom What so i'm confused here like does he not know that films the whole point of filmmaking For some of the most legendary films of all time is that they're made by people who are so good. They look expensive, but they're not Mm-hmm. Yeah, so There's a real cause for them being expensive terminated to was the most expensive film I believe when it came out. It's like, yeah, but look at all the shit that we're doing in that film incredible Well, it was it was amazing stuff. Meanwhile, it's like, oh the marvels cost 200 million dollars. Oh, does it? Like wow, that looks yeah. Well, that's the thing now we watch these films and we're like damn This must have like were they rushed that they have a low budget and you're like no higher than Well, yeah, I mean The creator is not a good film unfortunately, but for a film that costs like 70 80 million dollars Looks way better than a marvel film Well Yeah, 15 million that that's I mean, that's the that's the one you point to at the talking point Is uh enough is enough you need to slow the fuck down give time for everybody to make these films Especially with how much money you are bleeding from all of this But him saying like well, we got this movie coming up and it's got all these people in it So we expect it to be big budgets like what are you even saying? Just get back to saying stop spending so much money Badly, it's not I mean, I mean it would be Oppenheimer had a lot of people in it and that cost half as much as these films But the reason why is because the actors were willing to get paid less money to be a part of it Which you will never be able to do for a marvel thing People want to get paid a lot of money because they don't think these films are of value Or of quality and they're not wrong at the moment No Fantastic four rumors point to it taking place in space This is probably gonna be marvel's most extensive movie of 2025 because of how much it needs to hit After that, uh, no captain america has got so many reshoots that that has to be the most expensive one I feel yeah, I mean that's the thing that made han solo the solo movie's budget so incredibly It was the massive reshoots for it. I just don't uh, he's not even qualifying his position very well here at all No, no, this could have been over in an instant. It's like stop spending so much fucking money. This is insane Done Yeah, but it's uh There's over like these things cost a lot because of the fact that they're high in effects high and low k It's just like wouldn't it be fun if marvel made a movie That was clearly on like a kind of a bad looking obviously physical set for like in space But it would like just think of it like it was really well written and really charming And to the point where you probably actually attract talent through pitching it to them like that Um, maybe you can make any universe reason why it's happening that way But I was just saying like it would be a fun experiment to spend about five million on Something what you can do. Yeah, just just to see and then you can't just you can't just outsource everything to the editing dungeon And inflate that budget you might have to say oh wait guys guys guys We might actually have to write a story that's good here because we can't rely on the CGI and all that and also We can't just have everyone on a green screen. We might have to we might have Oh, oh the thing we might have to build some sets So chat you may not know about this and I would link you but I don't have it right now But we were made aware we we were just chatting and it was a tweet that I saw There is efforts now. Um in the behind the scenes for barbie They actually try to make it look like they're not on green screens by presenting the behind the scenes with CG edited backgrounds Like it's hilarious We've gone to a point now where it's so unpopular to spam green screen that they're trying to trick you into thinking There's not as much when they actually film the films Which is um pretty insane because it's like in your behind the scenes You're trying to erase that there was work that had to be done at three extra work Suppose what's nuts about it is one we like the transparency because we want to know our films are made to Green screens blue screens gray screens, whatever have you they are not the reason films are bad No, they're not it's the overuse and misuse Yeah, I mean it's again It's it's kind of funny that when mando season one was coming out everybody was looking at the uh the volume It's like wow This is a fucking cool piece of tech which it is But then because of all these shit marvel movies now It's at the point where you know, you don't want to talk about it or use it call attention to it at all The volume is now seen as like the root of all evil, but there's nothing wrong with the tech It's how it's used Yeah, and um it's kind of nuts too because you watch it and like the video we were checking out that was highlighting it They show how badly a lot of it is cropped and how like slapdash the effects are to try and convince you That they didn't use effects. It's like, what will do we in right now? What's happening? It's so bad, uh There we are And again expensive this team consists of florins pew david harbour why it rustles sabastian stan julia louis dryfus and eventually some actor playing the century and maybe harrison ford It is structured like an avengers movie and i don't think century is going to be cheap So wait if you believe it's expensive almost solely because of the fact that there will be effects tied to it Because it's a superhero movie and there's lots of actors in it. What is your solution? Yeah In our world You can get enough actors and enough effects done over enough time and money that it wouldn't be up to It wouldn't need to cross over like 50 million necessarily, but seems to me he thinks otherwise This movie is also If you can't get that budget down Then maybe these are the kinds of movies that you save until you've really made sure to establish This is going to be one that you know, it's a big hit I guess I would like deadpool feels like the film you point to in terms of they clearly didn't have that much money So the nature of their set pieces was For the most part working within the limitations that they had Um though then again deadpool is a kind of film that probably would convince you that it was more expensive than it actually was um But but that would be like the lesson that you try to learn from stuff that costs less money Like dead evils season one costs dramatically less than every marvel tv show And it's like well, how'd they do that? Like just what what did they what was it looking like behind the scenes? What were the kind of limitations that they had to work around and work with? In order to achieve the results that they wanted Oh, and it's so weird that we haven't heard him mention reshoots yet Uh, yeah We're going to be expensive after that you have blade got maershala Ali and he can walk and jump and wears the leather duster 150 wait a second this movie does not need to cost a hundred million dollars. It barely None of them. None of them This one in particular seems like it could be fairly, you know, yeah low budget and practical In fact, you can use that shit as a big selling point now people will praise movies that have a lot of practical stuff in it Yeah To cost 50 short maershala is expensive and there'll probably be another What actor is being paid a hundred million dollars like to get into a marvel movie these days? What's happening here? Like it I guess to me that he'd probably be getting paid like at least five million, right? That's we we've got a significant portion of what we need when we have that Yeah, exactly for blade you don't need to make blade got the yeah, yeah There are sometimes sometimes you want to you want to sometimes you want to spend on the actor Sometimes you don't need to but sometimes you really do how much did blade cost the first blade? Um, the first blade cost 45 million dollars Someone else that you could it's almost too late to do it now because you actually need actors to sell movies in the mcu But there was a point probably phase four. We really could have done a blade movie with an unknown as long as they were really good Well, that that was the time to start introducing characters whose actors weren't necessarily famous They wasted that huge bit of good will they had everyone was ready to join your stuff Now it's like oh these are this is a movie I really like and there's this new character and I don't know the actor But they did a good job and it's in the mcu and that's you know regularly good in this alternate universe And yeah for the record yeah people do along with it Blade one has a lot of effects in it. It doesn't need to but it doesn't like damage the film Obviously, we're talking about a potential blade film Which is focused heavily on choreography sword fighting kill the vampires You're gonna need the effects for when they burn apart and stuff, but you can do that Um, do you remember daybreakers? Yes That had a budget of 20 million Didn't I have Ethan Hawke and Sam Neal in it? I believe it did neat Well, yeah, we you guys remember you remember priest Did you ever see priest who was I recall that that was a film that exists? With You played priest that was that was a 60 million dollar movie and boy was that how much money did it make? Well, you know what it's not how much money it makes that counts It's how crazy and silly the movie is when you watch it The answer however is um 78.3 million So, um Ooh, Carl urban was in it Oh Oh, yeah Yeah, most of this action can be practical in camera That doesn't mean it's free But you don't need to fully create characters and backgrounds and basically animate half of the movie If this movie costs more than 125 million dollars to make disney is out of their damn minds John will it will but it will yeah, but it It will Find away they'll find a way to make this a 150 million dollar movie They'll find a way four cost a hundred million to produce the blade should not be more expensive than that Um, I don't know that I agree that fundamentally a john lick film should be less expensive than a blade film Because blade has to deal with the vampire special effects I think so. Yeah, like I I think I know what he means But I mean it could it could potentially not be and then what happens if you make a blade film? We're like dr. Strange shows up. Yeah, it's in the mcs like I was almost I'm not talking about disney's stupidity right now. I'm just saying like yeah, it's more than likely a blade film will outpace a john lick film for costs But probably Like I just feel like this is missing the point which is that they need to budget better They need to spend their money in time better If it ends up being 200 million for a blade film if they've spent the money in time really well It might just be well spent Yep Listen, I know making movies is expensive and these days studios are expected to spend at least 150 million dollars on a big tent pole movie But they don't have to just make one movie in the next phase this point is soy like it's just so weak in terms of Is this mother does this look like the face of soy to you? Listen, I just want him to Got into that Have a bit more of a spine and get to the core of the problem instead of being like You don't have to spend 150 million Yeah, there this There is that there is some admirable quality in kind of taking a bit of a stance and having a bit of cahones You know, especially when you're a 292,000 sub movie channel Just say like you know have some balls man Yes, spend whatever the fuck you want bleed out if you want on the fucking street But how about you use the money to actually buy things instead of just wasting it constantly It's amazing. You guys can spend as much as like several billion dollars on things No one's gonna remember. How did you get to this point? Can you look back on how the films were made what the budgets were actually spent on talk to people who know what they're doing Stop casting directors get the ones that actually have experience from making things for a very good amount of budget And creating things that people fucking like and then talk to them. How did you do that? How did you spend the money on what did you do? Did you do you magic like how does this happen instead of just constantly rely on on the system that doesn't fucking work Yeah, do you think that just because you spend more money the movie will have the aura of expensive all over it? That's what I magically Translates into quality just because you spend more dollars. We're got triggered by he's treating this way I was like, I know it takes more money to make the big films like useless Is that costs less than 150 million dollars? Why? Because success is not just based off how much money a movie makes it's how much profit it makes I mean, yeah, but also opportunity cost again. I'm gonna. So much more Yeah You're putting all this work and effort in trouble and risk and you're not really making all that much from it That's not good Yep, so many 150 million plus movies make hundreds of millions of dollars and they were still failures I just it's just so funny. This is so like fun noodle It's so much in like the world of superhero films It like you've lost sight of like the nature of like the broader film industry where you need to remind them You know, you don't have to spend so much fucking money on these movies There are some films that don't cost that much money that make a lot of money Like as if that's like yeah, like that's just normal. That's normal A movie making 70 million dollars in its opening weekend is only a failure If it costs 250 million to make number four. Oh, thank god. Okay. Thank good. All right. Come on. Give me a point Let's see if you get a point. All right. Let's cancel armor wars. Oh Okay, well, I guess the point for me. Um Okay, cancel armor. That's one of the five things mark. Well of the five things. It's very specific Well, this this is such a weird one. We can't even address like this We have to wait for his explanation because I don't understand how this helps or takes away from anything. I was like, what? Listen, no one wants to see this movie more than me Therefore you but you want to see this movie a lot. Okay An interesting start. Let's see how it develops Because it is most likely that armor wars is where we see the live action return of everyone's favorite sassy arms manufacturer Justin the live action return. Why do you say it like that? I don't know Because he puts far more legitimacy in his mind if it's like a real person rather than an illustration in a comic book or an animated Version of the character. And then he just wanted to clarify. He likes why do you say sam rockwell? That's obviously what he likes about yeah, why don't you just say I want to see sam rockwell again Will you say sam rockwell's just in hammer? That's the easy way to as just in hammer Yeah, rather than because it will it will finally bring about the eagerly awaited live action return I know you can write whatever you want to happen, but he is in he's in Apparently he was in what if he was in what if season two Wait, but uh, but that doesn't that doesn't mean much to him though because that's animated. You see it means more if it's I'm Guess he probably did right they get the voices for most of the the stars So that's probably why he said it then so he doesn't want us to be confused because he doesn't he doesn't really care about the animated He doesn't count that. Yeah, that's not very important to him However, it really is like a thing that bugs me a lot when people put like this tremendous amount of stock in live action As if like animation it's like well, that's that's cool But that's like the little you know it reminds me of the attitude towards video games in terms of adaptations of video games It's like well, yeah, that's just the little like the cartoons a little drawings on the screen Not like if it's like actors on a on a stage. I don't know. It's just it bugs me whenever I hear people You'd mentioned, uh, you know, obviously you get in the actors to play their animated You know the versions of their characters and kind of looking back Whatever happened with um The what if thing wasn't that shouldn't that have been their opportunity to really like experiment and try some stuff out and it never seems to have stuck The season two experimentation was absolutely awful judging by the tiles Yeah, the problem is that these premises are just insane. Like they're really stupid ideas They're not like the kind of inch. I don't know the the one that always sticks out to me is what if what if Tony died in Iron Man 1? What if the what if the attack killed him? What happens? What does it look like when you get rid of iron man at that point? um And then go forward from there rather than like what happens if dr. Strange loses his heart rather than his hands What the fuck does that mean? What what is that premise? Well, I'll have you know, that's one of the more favorite episodes of what if so there Okay, all right. Well, okay. I guess it's more favorite than what if killmonger saved iron man That's an idea that they had I don't get it They don't really use the the chances it's never interesting stuff What if the bomb killed the challah instead of his father, you know, that's that is like Yeah, that's what I mean Off the top of my fucking head. I just came up with one, you know Why wouldn't it be What if just one thing that happened in the movie went a little bit differently rather than what happens if the entire Backstory of a character is completely reinvented and changed. What if iron man was successful in killing winter soldier as in bucky? Yeah, that's uh, that's an idea. What if um, I mean, you know, what what if uh, what if what if America What if lucky one, yeah Oh, well, what if uh, yeah We can't be doing this traveling through the multi-verse or multi-verse madness He could have gone to realms where the what ifs were being played out, but oh well All of it is such an oh well, we don't use multi-verse for anything interesting. No paint will figure suggesting it paint world true No, they go on red Red man. Whoa calm down rags. That is crazy imagination. Oh, oh topsy-turvy universe I don't want to see Justin bomb It became clear recently based on reporting in mcu the reign of marvel studios by Joanna Robinson Dave Gonzalez and Gavin Edwards that in 2020 You Kevin Feige were pressured by disney CEO bob shapek to announce a bunch of projects You weren't anywhere near ready to announce Who could say why maybe to inflate disney's portfolio and convince investors that things were I think it's pretty obvious why they did it It's because they just launched disney plus and they wanted to they're trying to build that platform and give a little baby Yep, yeah Yeah, it was it was a tremendous mistake for marvel for star wars. It yeah, it was a really bad idea We're going great I don't know maybe that but the two projects the report sites are fantastic for and armor wars Now I think fantastic for while probably not ready at the time was worth announcing since there's no doubt this gets made It was worth announcing five years before it came out. Was it it was worth announcing at the time Since there's no doubt it. Yeah, because there's no doubt this gets made. He's like you should announce things that get made I don't even know what to do with this. I mean, I don't know why you'd announce with it so early, but Well, I mean, is there if it's presented as imagine they had a fucking thing where they said these are some ideas That we're not sure are actually going to happen I imagine all of us are really thinking about you know Price but you know thinking about madame web and I think that's what a lot of people seem to forget that was like an investor thing That like a lot of people think of it like oh, yeah, it's fun for the fans It's like the purpose of that is to tell investors what they're doing It's with us money. You'll get more money back, but armor wars doubts abound after all It was originally envisioned as a disney plus series and eventually retooled. Why are you picking on armor? I don't understand. Why does it have the anthem font? It's picking on the same thing, but blade has this problem as well blade was meant to come out way earlier than it's coming out It's changed directors. It's changed writers, hasn't it a lot of these projects have been tumultuous captain america 4 change directors um There's like it's not like armor armor wars Maybe is the the one where it's the most like what actually is happening there But it's far from the most like it's not the only tumultuous production Yeah, that's virtually all of them right now. Yeah, I was like, why doesn't this apply to basically all of phase four and five? Anything the less I know about it the more of a chance it might have Is it just because armor was the next one or close to the next one that isn't like guaranteed? I I think it is the closest one to being canceled I would I would say it's probably the one that if you ask me which project upcoming Is least likely to happen. I'd probably say that it's no it's coming out sometime in 2026 Maybe the vision show maybe that's the one that I'd be like, I don't know about that one. Um Yeah, I don't know if I applied uniquely to armor wars Wait, it's because he cares about armor wars. He doesn't want to see a project He's invested to get ruined. So he's not invested in all the other ones I because I was about to say like I mean, surely he would agree that like agatha is a much worse idea than a war machine film or tv show War machines like a character who's been part of marvel for ages that people have Wanted to see more of As a pro at armor makes more sense than a lot of other projects Yeah, I almost feel like it's really out of place now that tony's been out of the picture for a while This seems like something that you want to hit after tony dies in this element It's way too late, but you know, yeah, like the the element of his legacy and what happens with his stuff and his estate and things of that nature could be the You know general plot of you know, what happens with the stuff remind everybody, you know, rhodium has been a scroll Oh god No, why did they they didn't have to but they did and then That's what happened. They were like wouldn't that be a cool reveal and then that's a nobody like that moment Oh, yeah, that's uh, that's a nobody like that everybody hated that That guy at the funeral that wasn't rhodi Uh into a feature film uncertainty is in this thing's dna and Uncertainty has been in all of the mcu's dna. I don't even know what we're talking about here This is what I mean. I'm like picking on armor stuff. It's the same for all of it You need to remember that when it got announced certainty was the perspective on marvel that when they announced something They weren't like dc where dc announced a shit and there's no reason to expect that will actually come out Back then everybody's expectation was dude marvel's on top of the world anything they announced it's gonna come out They don't cancel stuff typically. Uh, I think the only thing they canceled slash pivoted on was um was uh In humans because I think that was gonna be a film And then that got pivoted into like a tv show that was you know adjacent, right? Like marvel television But everything else is that there was the uncertainty exists now because the shit ain't making money anymore Listen, could it be cool? Of course, here's a possible pitch for how this movie could go Why why bother pitching the film? You don't want it to happen. Yeah Your point is to cancel it. Don't pitch it for it. Yeah, this is like dude You got to hide this a little better like, you know, you want to pitch to the world your idea for almost That's cool and everything but like you this doesn't make any sense being here Yeah James Rhodes war machine is freed from the scrolls and cleans up the mess that is stark industries Which fell into disarray while rhodi was captured Why I thought pepper would have been handling it pretty well. Yeah, why would pepper pepper was better at handling it than talking I don't know. We have to assassinate pepper for his idea Sorry pepper Also and all the people that he probably hired that just didn't get screen time because they weren't you know needed for the Plots because it's a whole like that's a whole ass company. It's a lot of people work there Justin hammer bought it up and because of miss man. Whoa Why would you be able to buy it up? Sorry what? Why would this have happened? Pepper is in charge I think of the story would be that Justin hammer is currently in jail. Well, not only that prison or something Nobody would allow anybody who has any power in stock industries would never allow just in fucking hammer to buy it That's never gonna happen. I don't know. I feel like surely the pitch would I feel like you got to make a show Where make the show where Justin hammers the lead. He's just gotten out of federal prison He's gonna Government wants to take it under themselves with the government wants to make it a federal project or something like that I mean that seems like a potential light. I feel like there's something you could do there There are ways to rest certain things, but this is so what odds with the current state of the world The funny part is I guess like you could just do it the m2 doesn't care Like you could just invent whatever the fuck you want and start doing it like from the get go But it's just funny that his idea is so incongruent already with what we know Management it was pilfered and the tech is going to cause an arms race that will destroy the world All of them let this happen when Tony at this point has an insane legacy Like a golden legacy that they wouldn't want tarnished in any way shape or form because remember Tony Stark got out of weapons manufacturing the idea that Tony Stark then dies Someone buys the company and then goes into weapons manufacturing. That'd be like a huge controversy and in the marvel world It's worse than that He's saying that like it got pilfered and all of the development of all technology just got released into the world And now there's a huge arms race everywhere. It's like what the fuck. Yeah, like you you already you've destroyed the foundations for This is a secret invasion level mistake Yeah, because this is not something you can fix now This is like a permanent problem that you have to deal with in the mcu that anybody anywhere out in the world Can just create Tony Stark level technology Well, we already have that problem because iron hot can already do that in a little garage So rhodi former ceo pepper pot. Oh, yeah, who just allowed that to happen. How did this happen? He now remembers it Current ceo Justin hammer and hot shot new stark intern riri williams need to work together to stop the various Factions from acquiring this ultimate weapon. You said they already had it, didn't you? I want I want the story of Justin hammer rebuilding his life after he gets out of jail Yeah, and you know what sam rockwell would be on board if you paid him probably like even a million And said it's all gonna be about just hammer It'd be really funny and and there's like are there any action scenes? No, this is about Justin hammer try to rebuild his life Yeah, and he fucking first job he gets is like, you know, like toy store or something, right? Yeah, exactly. There's a story there and then he finally gets like a white collar job But he starts still I don't know creates like a Ponzi scheme or something. Yes Yeah, we do it like we never let him actually achieve anything through like a genuine sense of work He finds ways around everything. That's like his whole yeah And maybe there's a character who's trying to get him to understand maybe you should create things Maybe you should add to the world. It is like, yeah, but I can game the system Like that's what I'm good at. I want to game the system. I want to exploit all of the loopholes And the funny thing is like Designing this film trying to make it really funny and interesting and then also maybe give him a bit of an arc And we push him all the way up to having a relatively powerful corporate position And then that's the end that budget's going to be tiny. We can make that tiny Yeah, exactly. It'd be like 20, you know 10 20 million bucks. Maybe maybe. Yeah I feel like we can You make it at least a hundred million dollars at least Probably give it the market. That's where the main part of the budget will go is marketing Pretty much easy sell, but this market just does not exist. Yes. I think the just hammershow would be an easy sell We have so many characters with stories people are itching to see more peter parker miles moralis midnight suns I like how we mentioned characters that marvel marvel studios don't even have technically I don't have spider-man. This is from where we'll find out by the way this screenshot and he's used the Television as well. It's just curious. I would have thought you'd want to use the original Well, yeah, you most people I think all of chat could be like, what is this? But um, yeah, I don't know why he said that this is something that people are invested in Compared to armor wars specifically. I feel like it's a similar investment in both of those All the x teams if we're limiting the amount of movies They're working on that buddy. They're working on it to appeal to you How did you put midnight suns on the level of x-men and peter parker? How do you do that? Yeah, that's pretty crazy. That's uh, that's not That's just not the case. No We can make per year, which I think is a good idea armor wars just doesn't feel like it's worth being one of three movies released in 2026 Here's the future marvel and let's work with the idea that you can make three movies a year Which seems possible homecoming ragnarok guardians to all in one year. It can be done 2025 nobody It can be done if they're making if they're decent enough to start, you know turning profits and people have confidence in the brand They can do like 10 per year, but it would yeah Whether it's not how it works, whether it's one or a hundred I don't care. What would be good? That's the that's the A lot of what he talks about are all gonna result out of other things When they're writing them really well, let's say we we've spoken to like listen for what you want to do Like scripting it out really far ahead of time redrafting it getting peer reviews of different things and then making sure it fits in Clarifying it with the fucking law expert the mcu expert That's gonna take like a whole two months before we even start production or something. I'd be like, okay Like what what do you mean? We can't it's like what i'm trying to get at is Adding that amount of time on and then adding all the time you need for the cg and it goes at this rate We'll only be able to make like three movies a year Like okay, I guess I'll just find it funny that he doesn't even understand why you might Be making less movies in a year. It's like call of duty makes a game per year. Why doesn't every game do this? It's like well, there's a cost, isn't there? Yeah, what call of duty is that's the cost of When you make a lot of money you can afford to do these things Well, and just I hate this recommendation of maybe we should do three years Like we'll do as many as we can when nailing the important things Yep, we'll do as many as is viable. Yeah, as long as we have stories that we want to tell and we can tell well Whatever it ends up being it ends up being Five we're already breaking the three movie rule, but I'll allow it because 2024 only has dead pool three We've got captain. Yeah, but that's that's only because of the strike if there wasn't the strikes deadby three Four thunderbolts fantastic four and blade no room for armor wars there What by you why are we doing this with his three movie rule? This video is so bizarre Kang dynasty that's happening Shang Chi too probably where this goes. You don't even know You he's just the guy who's directing chong chi is doing kang dynasty So they'd have to get someone new and we've heard nothing about it. I don't I just I don't think so. I think they want to fast-track Dr. Strange three that'd be my guess Don't want to get that shit out quick And I want to get fantastic four out and I want to start figuring out what they're doing with x-men. That would be my guess probably Not shang chi come on Then we can do spider-man four sometimes We don't even know if that's this is so we don't we need to we need to work on having one movie That's a success. Okay. Yeah, we need to work on that All right, we need to be like hold up. We need to fuck this time. We need to get back to basics This is like a big this is like assassins creed one shit. It's like no, no, no, no We're starting you got a start over man. You got to remember what got you here you also need to understand the Tom Holland spider-man movie like he treats this as though it's just like a flick of the fingers like we've got it And it's like just don't have any legal battles They have to have over whether or not they not only they can make it make it a part of their continuity But that they can even profit from it. It's like there's all but Just spider-man movie you're like It is pretty funny like just spider-man movie. I it's so funny. I see people say like Sony should just give it back to marvel Why the fuck would they do that? No? They're never gonna give it away. They're gonna hold on to it for the rest of the existence of that company I don't think they should make him a part of the mcu anymore. If Sony is smart, they need to get him out They do they need to be they probably well So they should do what they're doing build that madame web. Well, so they shouldn't do that either What they honestly probably should be doing is their own standalone spider-man movie with tom holland and name it appropriately So it can kind of be its own new continuity But clearly picks on after the homecoming trilogy And it's just just just work on that as a foundation and start grabbing grab the characters of people Honestly, like throw in black cat throw in You can do I'm not very tempted by it, but you can do like spider-man versus venom and it's tom hardy's venom Oh, that would uh, that would probably make a lot of money. Honestly. I think the venom films are kind of cringy, right? But if it was good, it's like, yeah, fuck it. Whatever. Well, we can do that. Yeah But it's just so funny to hear him speculate on like, yeah, we'll toss a spider-man into phase six or whatever He's like, what are you talking about? Why do you think I know as if we're just gonna take this diamond and throw it in the swamp whatever Well, it's just funny because there is currently no there's no agreement yet. It's not their diamond But it is there's one I'm talking about sony what they yeah, like sarcastically what sony Well, so his recommendations for the mcu to do it. It's not theirs to do it with It's not there to do it with they don't have the film rights And if they wanted to get them back, they'd probably have to pay like 15 20 billion dollars They've had some insane price for that sony has managed to essentially take this super popular character and successfully Like sort of piggyback off of the success of the mcu to make giant piles of cash And now they can detach themself from it safely whenever the fuck they want, which is a great position for sony Everybody will mean about madame web or whatever, you know Because It's just funny to say The word madame web I can't think about how her mother was the amazon researching spiders when she was killed It's a funny set of words connected together, but but I know where i'll be valentine's day Not with my loved ones. I'll be in the theater watching madame web Oh It's with the point being That that sure like all that's cringed everything But you know you could make like a spider-man four and just do it and not have any connection to the mcu And it would probably still make like like over a billion dollars. I think I've got I've got an idea I've got an idea. I'm gonna steal this idea from the discord, right? I got okay. Here's a pitch. All right. Here's a pitch radioactive man bites spider Radio active. Oh, so it'd be like man bat, but it would be man spider. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah That would be that'd be scary Bites man you get man man So you're saying radioactive man bites horse and makes a So, okay, so it'd be a simpsons crossover because you have a terrible sushi accident the first mermaid is poor So anyway, also, that's a big Next week's e-fab will be covering madame web so get Checking in on the sony side of things. We're gonna find out why he was in the amazon with when to his research expires It's like Morbius too like before the movie's even out everyone everybody knows it's Morbius everybody knows even the lead actress knows it's Morbius even Even like it was what it's brought me so much joy and then we're gonna have to see it unfortunately Yeah, that's probably just gonna be like a lame movie Oh, he's gonna be terrible, isn't it? But hey cross that person we come to it Anyway, I mean, we still got one more from him. So who knows all that Man, I'm disappointed in myself. I I you overestimate hard call I was not in the brain of like Consumer mode on this one. I thought I was but well, I didn't go far enough It'll be excited when we reach that last photo But if we want to do armor wars in 2026 that means no Thor 5 no guardians 4 no silver It's not gonna be another guardians movie None of this is focused on It is pretty funny the idea of like oh well if there's armor wars that means there's no Hawkeye movie and it's like why would that mean anything like if if armor wars is a better movie than your hypothetical Hawkeye movie Then I'd rather see that If it's good, it's good Regardless of whether it's called armor wars or guardians 4 or 4 5 What were his um his first one was more connectivity in small scenes which rags got what was his second one and third one Uh, his second one was more avengers movies. Remember Well, he said all things avengers more his second one was use the avengers ip more Yeah, pretty much and then the third one was um less money spend less money on one film One film needs to cost less on this fucking list and then so number four was uh Get rid of all before a no armor was canceled Which is not one that we were gonna guess in our lives We're never gonna guess that I think if you gave us a hundred guesses, we wouldn't have gotten it You like no you have to cancel armor wars. Of course. That's what will save the mcu This is a joke list Young avengers no black panther 3 no dr. Strange 3 no hulk solo movie Let's just do none of that ever no eternals 2 none of that And 20 27. I think armor wars is a safer bet than Internals 2 Probably because eternals 2 makes people think of eternals, which is a problem. It's just not a bad reputation. It's such a Do you see the thing recently? Damn it. I I always call him dinesh because I keep forgetting the actor's name When dinesh said that he had to go to like therapy because of the bad reviews that the eternals got Yep Disappoint Yeah, and I'm not only that but that as part of his interview He basically revealed that there were other people in the cast who felt similarly, which I wonder if that's gonna get him in trouble Just basically openly admitting that a lot of the people who were involved in that film felt bad during like the promotion because the film got reviewed badly Oh, yeah, I did see that. Yeah, which is like Like I know it's not like it's it's a it's a thing that you want to laugh at because you should but at the same time It's like man. I can't I haven't been in that position. You kind of feel bad for him I go back for him a little bit. They expect what they're making is good and they do try We never said that the act is the problem in the mcu. Well, I mean it's it's rarely the actor's problem Like usually the act is pretty good. Uh, but the script sucks Some great artwork here This is good. We've had some we've had some quality memes today. We've been having some good ones Yeah, come on And then Johnny, I think I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Yeah, that he would then he was talking to the interview And you know, we got X-Men right around the corner after that. So I need to make you guys watch silicone valley That's a fucking good show I'd rather watch the porn parody silicone valley That's a little just a little joke. It's a little it's a little joke Right, I don't like it. And again, none of those other ones I mentioned instead We're doing armor wars. So cancel it or shift it into a tv show or special prison How how does he not bring up? By this logic is insane I get the hot tv shows are as expensive of movies. Like why doesn't he mention that echo should have been canceled then? Echo absolutely should have been canceled echo should have been destroyed a long time ago Meditation or marvel signature or whatever we're calling these now But let's not use one of our three theatrical releases on armor. You made that rule up that using free You just made that rule up All right This is the second time he mentioned something that was his idea and then criticized Himself for having it is kind of weird. Yeah Also, yeah, so a third of the video more than a third of the video is donated to or Committed to words, uh number five. So this is the final point. All right guys. That's the big one You're right. Yeah, the time will it be one that was referenced by either of you. Let's see number five Make one very specific crossover. Oh, okay. So I get zero points then. I'm afraid not yeah That might mean that you win because if my brain is operating on the same wavelength as nando then maybe What's funny rags is you're about to this is the one I remember you're about to get a half point I think But I'll let him say it first Right, and let's lead to a fine amount of cross promotion. Peter Parker loves star wars ultron sings the pinocchio song Sometimes it's cool. Sometimes it's weird. So that's not a crossover. That is a reference Pinocchio exists in their world lord of the rings and that's a crossover Mentions lord of the rings Yeah, this is the lord of the rings e-fap crossover that we've been waiting for when lego Palpatine is being played with by peter. That is not a star wars and marvel crossover That is lego palpatine is in universe of marvel. He's playing with lego It's not the same Do you know what group of characters the mcu has done nothing with and no Oh x-men Might get a point for x-men. No, but I well he said he said that you might get half a point He should probably have gathered crossover does not mean anything. He means universe crossing over as in Oh, just referencing things that are not already happening in the world for what he's about to suggest is a crossover But what he's referenced so far just references He's done nothing with the muppets. I love the muppets. What? Why not come on what white white? No, come on. No, this isn't I need everyone to understand this is the context of how to save the mcu and he's like Muppets, this is a babe right? This is a meme. Yeah, this is a meme. This is real No, this is no. What do you what do you mean by what do you mean? This isn't real So what do you mean? What do you mean a marvel muppets crossover? This is a mean he believes that to save the mcu We need to cross over with the muppets No, he's a um No, he doesn't he is not only serious. He's going to pitch the movie to you All right, I'll sit down and drink lots of water. He's going to pitch the movie to you. So get ready Okay, so so wet wet. Okay. So I'm gonna I'm gonna slow us down here and just make the observation that the muppets I like the muppets. I like kermit. Look at kermit. Look at kermit the frog. Why would you drag him? Why would you drag him into the mcu kicking and screaming? Why would you do that to him? Yeah, I see him. I see him on the ground digging his You know his hands into the into the uh into the carpet or like the tyler Like a spider-man through the light he getting dragged into the darkness, but it's covered go. No Because he's getting dragged in. Why would you do that to him? Um, the reason why I said rags might get a half point I guess zero points, but it's so funny This will be contextualized as multi-verse And whether things rag said at the beginning because the muppets are in disney So what I'm saying is that he will argue a narrative that they reach them up It's through the multi-verse and that one of the things you said fringy was his point would be less Or no multi-verse and rags said I think maybe the opposite. I think this but he didn't make it one of his points I technically didn't make it one of my points, but I was seriously Doing the exact opposite of what fringy suggested. It's crazy because yeah, we we were all just like no way And it's like yes way He's he's he's mad and this this is because like disney owns the muppets So that's probably where the thinking goes you're you've definitely because that somebody does say but uh The other thing about this that I find so fucking hilarious is that like The only thing you can say about why this would be beneficial is to sap the muppets because of how bad Yeah, that's the value of the muppets because the mcu is in shit, but people still like the muppets So why don't you ruin them too? This is the most consumed video that we've seen in a while This is so consumer brain Is it not the perfect video for us because the opening is don't just say write better. Don't just say spend more time doing They need to go visit the muppets. They need to go to the muppets universe We need to have iron man and come at the frog together fighting the chitari mcu So the mcu is so fucked When it's like primary sort of speakers for its saving saving like the people who still love it This is their recommendation muppets mcu. You're like, okay, holy shit They always work on me. They're silly charming. Yeah, but the reason why they work is because they're actually characters that are like written and presented in a way that's consistent and charming Comedy characters that disney bought for 75 million dollars and in my opinion are interused every so often there's that's Bad 75. That's it. When did they buy them again? Was that in the 90s? Or was that in the 80s? It was even earlier than that because the muppets was started in the What was it the 60s? Damn it. I can't remember. Um, man, did I understand that what they're muppets? Wow I will I will say this though. If we get statler and wall dwarf making fun of mcu movies in universe Maybe there's something too. That's what we would do rags. That's not what disney would do It's Show or special that they barely advertise and then it comes and goes and disney says well I guess people aren't into the muppets and listen that recent musical show was fine I think muppets now was pretty funny and earth to ned while not technically a muppets thing better jim henson come Dude, this is popless, man. I look great. Look at them. It's so funny because Every clip you see you're like, why the fuck would I want the mcu's sticky fucking fingers all day? Yeah, what is cropping shit? Yeah, great. However, I think their most successful project since the disney buyout should be the blueprint for head That's funny imagery. A few years ago disney created the muppets haughton mansion Which is the best haughton mansion thing disney has produced in the last few years and a big part of its success Is that a big list? Well, because that's the movie that came out recently. Yeah, I know but we don't want it That's there too, right? So that's the best one that they've done in years, which is Well, he said in the last few years because there was the one that came out with uh with um eddie murphy and the Oh, but that was not a while ago. That was like Yeah, why would he say in the last few years? There's not that many I'm curious. Is it a way to Shit on that other movie without being more specific? I guess so But why not just say that it's way better than which everybody would believe that a muppets haughton mansion would be better than that That's not even surprising. Well, um, I have heard the it's better to be positive than negative Basically, oh, right. I see. Yeah. So what you need to do is be negative by implication Yeah The cowardly way of being negative into existing stories We know who the muppets are even kids have never seen them before Dude, come on. So good, man Like he's just like that's like one of the best designed cat. Look at him. He's wonderful. Look at this character Look at him. It's so great Everyone loves kermit and you know, you're gonna be distracted by images of muppets, but you gotta listen to what his points are too guys, okay? We literally don't it's our show. We literally don't But we can just look at funny. We can just look at funny muppets for the next seven minutes In calling the muppets are even kids who've never seen them before hear one sense Have you guys seen the interviews of like jim henson on uh on like late night talk shows with kermit? No, I haven't I think I have like ages ago. Yeah, really. They're really funny They're really really good just like I think I think what's really fun about those interviews is how much it's just like treating it totally in character Like even though he's sitting there and even though you can see him standing there We're sitting there doing all of the uh movements It's like you're so like absorbed in the performance that you forget that he's a puppet That's sitting there It sounds like it might have the same energy as like all that like the sesame street outtakes But they stay in character for the outtakes. And so it's it's amazingly It's super funny. Well, it's a watch when they stay in character when they mess up The thing is is that it's it's like it's it is that that's like the one thing they do They do so much training to become Like there's an immense amount of training that gets involved because actually doing this stuff convincingly Is like it's acting. Yeah, it's deptably difficult because I think a lot of people think well You put your hand in there and then like you you know You do the math things and then and then you do it in sync and then you got it It's like no no no no no It's like it is so intensely complicated and difficult to convince someone that a puppet is alive Yeah Feelings and a personality. Yeah, yeah, of course you see it with like, you know Big bird everybody's probably seen the the diet the diagram of like big bird and how Like how difficult it was and and like the posture that you had to be in to do it But I mean it even it is just as simple as like how good are you at coordinating? You know doing all of the the Lip sync I guess you would call it while also moving around while also making sure that you're one other hand That is the one of the two hands that you actually have that you can use Is uh is convincingly coming across to a camera that you can't see in a frame that you can't see Well, I think actually they use our little cameras when they're they're doing it so they can see how they look But how that's all coming across. It's really difficult people. I just look all right I just want people to have more appreciation for these like alternative What better way of creating character get everyone there than to cross them over with the mc. Yeah the crossover This is I came for spider-man that I stated a great like payoff. That's the fight. This is so painful Yes, it is the whole video is painful. We know who the muppets are even kids have never seen them before Hear one sentence out of kermit's mouth and they get him. He's right. He's like on it timid and friendly Oh, are you saying he should be the leader of the avengers but muppets? Well, let's hear him out Let's hear this pitch. This is what this video is all built for in the group Piggy is loud, violent and loves the camera. Fadzi is eager according and takes every opportunity to make a joke Ganzo is strange brave and frequently injured So it is easy to take an existing story and muppetify it I mean this video hit nebula right around christmas and one of the most I love them up at christmas I hit nebula Nebula can go straight to hell. I don't care. Muppet christmas is indeed wonderful I love them up at christmas carol In christmas movies of all do you oh wait, do you prefer a muppet christmas carol or a muppet treasure island? I haven't seen them up at treasure island. That should be something we watch then. I'd love to rewatch We should yeah, I I would be up for that for sure. It's got tim curry is a Long white silver in it. Yeah All time is the muppet's christmas carol. It works because a the muppets are somehow able to exist Simultaneously in a state of pure So great looking at it An absurd comedy they can play a sad scene completely straight and punctuate it with a silly joke and b It is very fun to watch the muppets make fun of a thing you already know a familiar story or genre Or theme park ride taking something like the christmas carol that's been done to death and throwing the muppets in Can remind everyone why we love the original thing that the muppets are muppetifying also the muppets Yeah, but remember why you like the original thing the reason why you like the original thing is because it was good Yeah, you have to remember chat obviously us the everything he's saying he's trying to argue These are all things for why they should cross over with the mcu How who's right in this thing and then yeah, he's directing it and then who's like producing and what kind of And once you answer all these questions you realize Oh, right. It doesn't fucking matter that it's the muppets crossing over the mcu. It matters how good it is You're probably you're making me want to the muppets. You're not making me want the muppets mcu crossover Exactly. I just want the muppets Let's have a story tradition of hanging out with pop culture icons Stars like roger moor would show up to the muppet show and make jokes about being james bond Or kerster for reeve popped into protect kermit from miss piggy mark hamill's muppet show appearance was the first time audiences Saw luke's costume from empire strikes back putting them up. It's in the same room as a nothing to do with anything Okay We should have them cross over with the avengers Well, this is like saying the first time we saw kashique was in the star wars christ holiday specials. So that means we should make more holiday specials It's about that character by association and we have a really simple in here Here's a very quick pitch after the events of dr. Strange 2 strange Oh my god. Oh no No I told you guys. I told you here comes the pitch and it's a multi first thing. Oh my god. Oh, no It's so unnecessary, but the muppet verse. Yep Oh god If you're watching multi first matters at this point, they go to the paint wheel the the cartoon will whatever whatever And then they drop into the muppet world. We'd be like no Like how are they? Oh, like what deal was made let this happen But it's like no, that's what's going to save the mcu save the mcu a muppet movie I feel like if you made a really good muppet movie that's making fun of the mcu That's more beneficial to the muppet ip than to the mcu ip Oh, yeah Explore her multi verse hopping abilities. They star jump through a bunch of different I will say though. I like the idea of benedict cumberbatch playing a role in a muppet movie, but Yeah, but not dr. Strange But I'm just thinking. Oh, that'd be nice to have him. You know him as you know benedict cover Wouldn't it be funny if he was playing smelly or something? Oh, yeah The muppet lord of the range. He's in there. He's got the green outfit on with all the little motion Muppets on his face And he's crawling around with the buffets and they're like, hmm. You were supposed to be he's like, I am smough the dragon Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, cool. Okay. You're a you're a really good dragon Mr. Uh cumberbatch You're uh, I'm really I'm really impressed by your comment boy. She's quite good Thanks, this something good came out of this fucking video Well, just remembering how good muppets is We just like the muppets are really good It's sapping the muppets get the fuck away. You know vampire fangs out of here In cartoon dimension paint dimension and after america has had enough strange tells america to send them home And she makes a star portal, but when they get to the sanctum sanctorum, they are greeted by gonzo dressed as doctor Okay, we're gonna pause the video because it sucks. Look at this meme. It's really good Oh I'm dying here Okay And we learned that america there were people who thought there was a chance that you would have been able to guess all of his points We got one no One and a half under stretch Traveled to the muppet marvel universe and they're in the middle of an avengers crisis Let's say ultron is back and he's destroying everyone so gonzo strange asks for a regular Again, this is just let me pitch a muppets movie this mcu style. Do you just like, okay? There's nothing to say about this strange and america's help strange says it's too dangerous But america doesn't care the muppets need their help and they're not going home until ultron's defeated So basically this story is just them going around and hang man That's the problem with the mc right now. Is that america doesn't care Uh-huh hanging out with the avengers factors strange and america chavez or michael cayne It's more than just america rags, but that's okay or team curry now I thought just yeah, leave about which muppets could play which avengers and here are my picks kermit is spider-man stop I don't care I get it your idea That's like this is a thinly veiled. Here's my pitch idea video basically He's done a few but his ideas are shit and his video sucks. Yes You could walk in his video demonstrates a severe lack of awareness of like how anything works It's it's a bit sad And it's so funny that you circle all the way back around to what are you saying that the answers to just make better things? You're like, yes 100. Yes pretty much. That's the short answer. The long answer is here's what we think means better Yeah, it's not make sure make a muppet movie No, not make a muppet avengers crossover movie or Cancel armor wars specifically spend less money. That's the specific information like okay Or make sure that your post credit scene sets up a movie that's coming out in two years Jesus He's small jumps. He's the heart of the team sam the eagle is captain america. He's small Jumps, he's the heart of the team. That's what makes him spider-man. That's what makes kermit spider-man All right Okay For the record i'm not a huge America for the record i'm not a huge fan of this one because it's a little on the nose But that's where you land it then change it. It's your fucking idea. If you say this is my idea I'm not really a fan of it. That's the point where you say, oh, shit. I should just keep this to my damn self Oh Fawzi is Thor with a meal on your rubber chicken. Miss picky is captain marvel bunsin Oh Why because gill why what? Oh I mean, it's the multiverse. It's the multiverse. You don't have to have them be I just think it's funny because a lot of people would have cast the same way but for different reasons Zyron man beaker is hulk. Yes, I realized the bunsen is the green one, but hulk beaker is funnier The green one now we're getting racial Pepe is hawkeye Scooter is black. Do you like how he tried to give some level of a reason with one? And then it's some awkward common with two and then just gave up There are like four muppet women and we need the other ones for other stuff Dr. Teeth and the electric mayhem or the gardens of the galaxy rizzo is ant-man yolanda is wasp Uncle deadly is vision. Camilla is wanda. The sweetest chef is ultron. I know they have Oh my god, how many people? That would be characters. None of this matters. We just throw it in every single character Oh Stanley cameos they pop up every so often and make fun of them we call it Dr. Strange and the muppet first of madness ah lame lame lame lame lame lame lame lame lame There's release it on disney plus, but megan. This is number one reason that to save marvel like how you do it it's insane Weird stuff like that is exactly what disney needs to be doing with both of them. They've done weird shit for like five years the Just calm down with a weird shit and start doing normal shit. How about that to make some normal movies? I'm gonna movie good movies where a hero needs to be a hero and save people at the end. Let's do that Let's go wild and do that Muppets and the Avengers to make people remember why they love both. So Kevin, that's the advice Oh, hey Kevin. Yeah, Kevin. That's the advice Kevin. Oh, hey Kevin my friend. That's the advice Okay, I do love that one. It's it's like I had Kevin like he knows it personally I think if Kevin watched this he would just say like is this a fucking joke. Yes, he would say that I am pulling my hair out trying to save this company I'd have a thousand children before I let this company die. He pulled it all out Well, that's why he wears the cap because he's you okay Genuinely understanding the idea of Kevin Kevin being in the call with us right now and I said to him You need to slap the Avengers IP on more movies such as but not necessarily limited to Doctor Strange, for example I think he'd be like no Okay, well you need to spend less money and he'd be like sure we need to make more money is I think what you mean And I'd be like yeah, it's like I'd rather make more money, but you know, okay We'll watch your budgets Nando. Sure. There's a council armor wars. You just be like, okay. Why? Well, that's what he'd stop listening. You'd be like, right there you go You need more years away at least so you need more tiny scenes after the credits of characters Phoning other characters to set up that they're gonna be coming around in future stuff And he'd be like, yeah, what we're already doing. Okay, and then I'd be like Muppets Muppets We like what do you mean Muppets? Oh, like it's like in Doctor Strange. They go to like the Muppets world And then he just gets up and leaves. Yeah, you usually like, okay, thanks You've saved Marvel. Good job. Anyway, that's a back to do my job. I Just loved it. So Kevin. Those are my ideas Kevin I don't know you don't call me fucking Kevin. All right, it's just funny. They're on a first-name basis. Yeah Oh Kevin, we've been through so much together. Now, where are the Muppets? Where are the Muppets Kevin? I'm happy. I prefer called him Kevin in like meme ways, but he did seem very like sincere like Kevin. I'm here to help It's just funny to me. Hey Kevin I've never understood that when people do that like as if they know these people personally you don't Mr. Feige Well, I guess it's funny because if you said mr. Feige, I'd probably find that cringe too The only acceptable one is those are my suggestions Kevin Feige That's the only one only work if he was like playing a character like he was acting like a secretary or something at the company presenting ideas They're like, well, he's a mr. Feige sir. I have some ideas for you. I can't cancel armor words You almost want though like they should be directed at just for anyone who has any influence in the way that the MCU will play out Please like if you genuinely believe this is the solution, which I'm not even sure that he actually does I don't think he does. It's just stuff that he wants to see Yeah, he just well he needed a video to make and this was a topic he could do and he can frame it through the lens of Ah Kevin. I just want to help you out Kevin. Yeah, man But then in reality, it was just him just rambling about just stuff and pitching the films that he would rather Want to see that are never gonna happen. So I don't even really send the goal Really unless it's some goal of light trying to I'm yeah, I don't I don't get the angle Make the movies feel connected by deliberately adding natural world-building moments. That's not what you said That's not even what he said Not natural at all Something would just stupid like we need to have that moment with Valkyrie as a phone call with Captain Marvel I was like, no, you don't Oh, well, it would have been natural. No, it wouldn't You're putting it in but it had no reason to be there. This is just like it's definition of unnatural Make at least one movie per phase in Avengers movie That's not what you said you said to cold stuff dark Avengers and like and just like the Avengers label on other films So yeah, no, but also that should how long is the ad that he's doing at the end of this video Because we've got four minutes left and it looks like he's wrapping up. What's the ad? It's only so much nebular I can take, okay Make at least one sub a hundred fifty million dollar movie per phase. That's not relevant to anything It's not anything. It's just dumb doesn't solve any problems. It doesn't save the MCU He's cancel armor wars I still find that one so funny like Ansel armor war that that movie's like two years away We don't need to be we need to be looking at like what are we going to do in the next few months in terms of turning this Shit around not I wonder what armor wars two years from now what we're going to do with that I if we'd skip to here and he just listed we would be baffled and then you watch the whole video and you're actually just You're still baffled Do a Muppets MCU crossover You're welcome You're welcome. You're welcome Nando I'm saving the MCU out of the kindness of my heart. Anyway, thanks for the check out my videos on nebular Yeah, instead of looking at the future of marvel I'm gonna look at the past of DC because I've said a lot of things over the last Oh, this is the nebular video. This is the ad. This is the nebular video. Yeah 10 years Look, he's even changed the background. Yeah, he's and he's got a new shirt too. And also, yeah, all the toys. Oh, look, he's got ocean master there Wow Just ended with aquaman loss kingdom I don't want to say something nice. So I'm going to do my in defense of the dceu video Oh my god, the first part covers everything from the steel on nebula. Oh, maybe the first part will be on youtube right now On this video How about no, how about now your own subscription streaming service that I was there at the beginning That's really funny that he's there like I was there at the beginning I helped create it because he wants to let you know that he was there on the ground floor I was there when I created an alternative paywall youtube It's just funny because there was a weird air of arrogance there that was bizarre of like I was there I would like rewind it and play it back and you know, that's what I mean creator owned subscription streaming service that I helped to create I was there at the beginning Yeah, that the the Like it be Distinguish him from other people who would have come on later. Yeah creator owned subscription streaming service that I helped to create I was there at the beginning the way that he had the way he stresses that that I helped You do not impress me for being a part of the creation of nebula when it's just youtube With money, that's it. You don't you don't say that I helped to create you say that I am proud to have been a part of Something like that. Yeah, something that makes you sound like less of an asshole All my videos also your ideas are shit All my videos gone right. What are these videos? Who should be the real bad guy in avengers secret wars? We got dr. Doom. We got wonder there. We got Is that honestly there in the background? Is that not indicative of the problem though? That's not the issue It's who's writing it and how they're writing it. It doesn't matter who's a bad guy. Oh my pitch for young man He just makes so he just makes videos about marvel Well, uh, here, let me go see sometimes and do you see Let's go on his you early and had free and that includes in any of his videos only But it's just everything that was on that screen there was marvel. Um, yeah, we got marvel marvel marvel marvel Um Fan casting booster gold. I don't know what that is. I guess it's Let's see My rewrite of secret invasion is 56 minutes long. Geez. Holy shit. Wow. Why I stopped making one small change videos even though Oh, even though the banner of his nebula page says one small change can make a big difference Oh, yeah, he did and for remember the first time we covered him He was his one small change for joker. Do you remember any mate? I think he said he wanted the girlfriend I think he said he wanted to completely imaginary or not imaginary or something like that We covered him all the way back then. It was horrible talking about He's got my pitches for Thor 5 um, my pitch for a midnight sun's movie Uh star wars droids are a mess Oh, he's got oh, let me let me let me show you what the thumbnail is too. This is look at this thumbnail Got to see three pio there. This doesn't work. We just see three pio in the thumbnail Oh, he has a he has a 10 months ago in defensive phase four Um, well, remember he he has to admit that marvel's falling apart, but he's still on the line of like Well, you know, it's not it's not a disaster It's not great But you know and it's like to give him time everybody eventually he'll make the video of how the How the mcu fell apart that's what that's what it'll be and it's like how the fuck would you have insight on it? Would you say it was fine all the way up to the marvels? It'll be like how the avengers fell apart and then the next video will be like I don't know like another positive video about a recent marvel thing because he is uh He is locked in if all he's doing is like talking about marvel Um, and that's like what he's built his channel on then he's kind of locked into that Like a marvel stops existing then he's in a bit of trouble, which obviously is probably not gonna happen, but yeah Well, it'll be a while before they're gone forever Yeah, exactly He said hey, I watched the nando v movies videos on nebula. Why aren't the nando cut videos on nebula? And I was like yeah good question So I put them on there all my nando v movies videos go up one video early So right now the next video it's gonna go on youtube in a couple of weeks is on nebula Yeah, all we have to do is pay more to watch the same stuff cool, right? That's like a line I don't feel like I'll cross is like having to pay to get access to my content It doesn't it doesn't feel right like I'm fine with it. Just don't sell it to me like it's a crazy better service than youtube It makes no sense at all sell it to me is what it is. It's premium service You get access to my stuff early for money. That's what it is It's like patreon or whatever. Have you stop telling me that nebula is an amazing website that allows people to express it? It's like no, you just you you just No, no one fucking cares about nebula. They care about youtube and twitch the videos They want the videos you pay walled them. That's fine. You can do that You can make them member only you could put it through patreon subscribe star whatever you want But stop selling it as though it's this awesome new thing What are you doing nebula is just Pay walled youtube that's all it is Also all kinds of cool nebula exclusive content patrick williams holiday special oh boy Wow Every time we stumble across a nebula app it has him in it Patrick Williams uh Weird yeah, it's weird star. He has his own tweet framed on the wall. He does because he's a funny man You should frame the one where he ripped into jj He should ruining his favorite movie tlj The new movie about Dracula's ex-girlfriends that abby is working on a bunch of other cool stuff I don't really talk about but i think you guys can really like all that stuff is on nebula along with a bunch of other videos That i made exclusively for nebula like if you like our videos and when you say you made them exclusively for nebula You mean you made them exclusively for paywalling you made them for you you made them for youtube And you can double dip with nebula is what you mean. Yeah, why can't they just say that's what it is That is what it is by our either. Why not just be honest and say we just just say hey guys This is my job If you give you give the patreon every time we get to the nebula ads they treat us those wonderful fucking website I just don't get it stop haters on nebula that you already watch. Yeah bro. You should know No one watches anything on nebula. No, I don't have anyone. I already watch on nebula. No one does hey You don't know that Lady night the great jesse gender captain midnight. Hello future me talk about avatar. There's gonna be a lot of that in the next couple months Oh, that was the guy we we watched his writing advice where one of them was like Hey, there's ways to create drama that don't involve death. Oh my god That was again, yeah, that was the other version. Yeah, do you remember that? Again, it was one of those things where it's like if that's a kind of thing where you learn for the first time Wait, there are ways to create stakes that don't involve death. You were like so far away from being able to write Basic stuff. You are you you go a long way to go It ain't an impossibility that you can get to the point where you can start writing stuff But if that's like a revelation to you that you can create drama in ways that don't involve life or death confrontations You're just really far away. Like you are. Yeah, that's something like crazy to people who need right advice Yeah, like you're teaching a writing class of like first graders who have already watched many movies in their lives That have stakes that don't regard death because that's pretty much all children's stuff Someone in chess kind of almost nailed it. It's basically video essay only fans. That was that's what this is Oh It. Oh, yeah, that's I like that video essay only fans I keep talking about the curse one of my favorite shows the last year princess weeks big joe. I love big joe Woo-hoo. Oh him again It's a frame Yeah, it's like it's like mr. Robot Which uh Mr. Robot has a lot of uh, there's a lot of shots where there's a like a startling amount of empty space above the characters But in this case, it just looks kind of Man, what what I don't is the pitch like that. He's just hoping that you recognize one of them. I don't know I know like super lefty people like that's kind of interesting coincidence. I don't think you're gonna find right wingers on nebula rags I That wall Playing mario call something to be great Reacts talking about blue-eyed samurai. We're gonna beam there. You gotta put that beam. Oh, it's really Kermit's great The memes have been really good today. So you guys have been doing because kibbit is so memeable Do you remember the uh, it was the the kermit in half-life. I'm a frog I'm talking a what's the name? That's a good meme. Very good His face man. It's a yeah No, I know I really enjoyed and then there are a bunch of other channels that I love that are not exclusively film and television So like leo vader. I think his videos are super funny. He is on nebula legal eagle very helpful every time there's some new Legal related story that is on nebula extra credits. I've been watching them for years there. Oh, oh, yeah That's right. We love it. I love them. I'm nebula. I'm telling you go on nebula. Check it out There's so much cool stuff. We're always adding new creative. He mentioned the paywall yet Here's to nebula It's just you downplay it as much as we get don't talk about the capitalist schemes of the lefty youtubers Don't talk about don't And by we I mean oh look everything great about pussy boots. Everything great about pussy boots. Yeah That video is shit Someone and nebula curates these rails. So like right now there's one that's a little much you think he watches nebula No, he doesn't what he watch it if it's on youtube you'll watch it, but he won't go to no 23 so you got like film joys best films of 2023 video Thomas flates top 10 movies and this really does feel like just throw everything at the wall and also one that Do they not blend in so hard They all blend in none of these seem like they have any sort of identity Like stories of old best movies of 2023. Why didn't I make a best movies of 2023? I haven't finished all the movies of 2023 That's probably why maybe I make one way. I mean, yeah, I'd be surprised you won't I'd be surprised if you did that seems impossible I've seen the three ones that everyone loves that I haven't seen yet So listen nebula is great Now I know a lot of you guys a lot of people who watch my videos people tell me on twitter on the discord channel They watch videos early on nebula and they give me some feedback Sometimes I'm able to incorporate that that is very cool. And that's not nebula exclusive. He didn't have no nebula for that No, yeah, you know That's just funny to me. It annoys me. Yeah, so much Next you'll tell me like man, you can upload videos to nebula and they'll 1080p Like 720p like they have several options. It's so great nebula is $50 a year, which is already a steeper Man, that's 50 bucks a year. You don't have to pay normally 50 bucks a year. That's not nothing. Okay Well, it's just it doesn't matter how much it is one dollar a month or a year rather It's just money. You don't need to pay So really like if the other I think what they've done with nebula is avoid admitting that they just want you to donate more Money to them, which is fine. You can ask for donations if you want There's a whole series of ways to do that. You don't have to why we circumvented it Into you want to buy this service and like cool. Okay service. What does it do? It's like it provides you access to my videos I already had that and it's like no not the one that I take away from you. You're like, oh Okay It's bundled with curiosity stream right which is like a Well that I think that's probably not the useful stuff on it, right? That's like documentaries Curiosity stream is documentaries. I think Um But it's it's uh, it's usually like one dream or something I guess it's just but again like the 50 bucks. It's like, I mean, it's a price like I'm fine with the 50 bucks. Just call it what it is. Please just call it what it is I'm fine with youtubers who only release videos based on like, uh, if you pay for them It's fine with me if you want to do it that way do it that way just call it what it is Don't call it nebula. Well, I mean You call it nebula, I guess but the every one of these ads presents is a wonderful service. It doesn't make any sense at all Mr. Code Nando Well, one of the he doesn't try to but one of them says like nebula allows us to express ourselves, you know Where youtube doesn't like no fucking way The yeah, because you guys really have to worry about being suppressed and censored on youtube I mean, that's because that's uh, that's one that you see Like I've seen uh real life law Like that if it's like covering a war like either a war that's currently happening or a past war that it will get I mean, yeah, that'll happen. And so then it's like, oh well, but every video we just saw that's not getting demonetized on youtube Oh, yeah, yeah, sure like if you just talk about like movies You'll be fine But if you're covering like active wars that are happening right now like yeah You probably are going to get demonetized for that and if you're putting an immense amount of you know Time and research and animations and stuff like that. Yeah, you want to make some money off of that And again, if you said like so, you know, I understand people watching it Regularly, but i'm putting a paywall on it because it takes so much effort to make I need to make money from it I I have no issue with that whatsoever But if that person that same person said i'm not doing that i'm offering you a better service where you get to see the video Yeah, I already could see the video. I don't understand what you mean by that Check out NANDO go to go dot nebula dot tv slash nando you can get nebula for 30 dollars for the whole year Wow two dollars see You can take money off of the previous money. It's like what do you mean? You he's charging for something I already had It's in 50 cents a month. It's an incredible deal. So go check it out This this to me is not too far away from offering me bottles of oxygen. I'm just like uh, like as in a basically It's better to just say if you'd like to support me give to my patreon or subscribe star because I actually get like Basically everything that you send goes to me. It's not part of a larger Subscription service that I am a part of that. So like no, I know it's just a part of remember he helped Oh, yeah, he created it. He's a fucking pioneer. That's true I just thought bottles of air that doesn't even apply because you would at least be buying the bottle and you can use that for things So That's true. Yeah a bottle One of the best I didn't have to buy and it is currently the I guess it's like I'm buying atmosphere from people They had it to me Thank you, man. I'm gonna put it via the box of atmosphere And it is currently the only way to watch my videos before anybody else that's like genuinely I make them my editor works with me on them nobody else sees them And then they go right to nebulous. You're like the first people to take a look at it Wow, I can't wait to be in that illustrious club. Oh, and then and then we still got the massive list here. Anyway This for me. It's just to me. It's a way to try and get more support by not selling it as patreon And also it's like so all the people who already give you money through patreon. Do they Do they I don't know if they get any access along with nebula people At that point you just switch over anyway if you were a patron and then they start up nebula and they ask you to pay for both You're like, well, I'll just switch over This is what I mean, like I just don't understand the point. It's the same thing I don't know how people even know this. I think with the nature You know how we've talked about this before when people watch videos oftentimes It's how they feel not what they heard you find a lot of people have said like ever since watching efab They it's changed the way they view video essays because we unequivocally listen to everything that's said several times We don't just we're not playing a game and listening out in the background go right through which by the way Nothing wrong with that. I do that with videos as well The point being A video can come across one way and when you go through it the way that we do it comes off a completely different fucking way And nebula the nature the tone in which they sell it to you I think that that gives off a sense of like wow nebula seems pretty cool, man And it's like what is it though and you go well, you know, it's a place We can find some really awesome videos like awesome videos that you already had access to that they paywall It's not a service. It's just youtube with a paywall I don't understand like how they've convinced you otherwise and it's because they use very specific language to the point Where I wonder if it's in the contract for selling it That kind of like um, I don't know if it would be that I think it might just come down to a simple Was that actually something in the better? Hope like was that something was it better help or was it? That other what that twitter one about being the freedom of speech remember which which rise from Candid and a candidate I think had requirements in the uh the contract for how you sell it what words you use Yeah, and you couldn't God that was uh, that was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. Oh my god. That was years ago All right, we're done Damn Yeah, that was the most consumer video that we've seen in a while Uh, yeah, we we were completely wrong on most of what points we expected him to make. Yeah Yeah, that was uh, I think um, I think I'm wondering how much of it was that I was in the I was in the mind of like A different kind of video essayist. I wasn't in the mind of uh, I needed to be more like that that peak fire guy What was his name that guy? Channel him more. Yeah, I think I was channeling more of like the Video essayist who kind of like pretends that they're more enlightened than that but all they do is talk about marvel and dc Anyway, I think it was in that mind if he made a top five Things to do he might be it might be better than this The peak fire guy what like of uh, oh he might yeah, maybe Um, because this one seemed a little delusional honestly like semi delusional Or like Like totally out of touch with reality almost like um like in If someone was to say yeah, this is uh This is an mcu specializing youtuber with almost 300 000 subs on youtube and then you watch this you're like no they aren't This is a person. This is a homeless man who wandered into your home And used your computer to make a video This was wild you like some up its when we dip our heads into these spaces. It's just It's like it's like i'm an alien studying a new species on some far away planet You like some of us That's great. Yeah, we all like them up it too. I don't want to see them cross over the avengers Don't anything we like cross it over the avengers No, thank you um Yeah, so the other thing we're going to talk about was uh, the fate of Suicide squad kill the justice league, which oh, shit. Are we yeah more? So we can quickly talk about uh, the game itself afterward I was just gonna make a quick comment on how its its player base is like shrunk dramatically even from launch, which is already too small To maintain, you know fuck all The comparison that's often made would be with the avengers game Launching a like 32 k ish and this launch is a Around 12 13 k it's already down to an avengers was not successful Here, let's check here. Um today there was hello Hi, well, it's literally what I was about to say like he's just grading the numbers Rag like mola has the numbers So I got him better Yeah, I doubt it So starting between 12 and 13 k that each day just shrinking and shrinking and shrinking but now it's sort of leveling out And so we look at we're looking at like a standard player peak of about 5 000 Which is still nowhere near enough to satisfy like the point of fucking selling this thing So Kind of hoping I'll come back for season one. Don't be back Destruction of the game. Um, it's weird to hope for that especially in the environment of how games are treated But like this one is a bit of a blight upon the future of gaming We say there's such a thing as anti stories or anti films Some of the ones I would describe in terms of how they're made this to me feels like an anti game Um, this is not where games should be going nor should games learn from it like the A lot of people want to focus on the sweet baby ink stuff But I want to focus more so in conjunction with that the rocksteady's decision for games of service, you know stuff Which to be fair a lot of people have been covering as well But what a what a fucking massive game for those in chow didn't watch Uh, me play the game supercuts coming out tomorrow Uh, it's all ready to go. I think anyway. I need to proof it just to make sure Should be kind of early access that you put on nebula. I put it on nebula for rags. Yeah. Yeah So I used I used code moller and got the $20 off my $50 a year subscription I did say we wouldn't talk about it on eFab, but what I bet was like a full episode I didn't mean like never mentioning it because I I don't want to play it. No Well, and I want it mentioned so the people who only watch mainline eFab know what this was Somewhat, you know as an event like I played it. It was horrible There's not much of anything I like about the game at all and uh The supercut will be a way to sort of explore exactly what the problem was in a quicker way than watching my playthroughs of it But it's um, it's a disgusting game in more than just The storytelling elements, which I'm sure you've all heard about Um, yes, but before I go on I was actually gonna ask because rags seen that what were your thoughts of of the game of what you saw I uh watched moller supercut that is true And I hate this game. Uh, it looks like it is a slog to play super generic and at the same time Garishly hideous not just in terms of its ui, but in terms of all the effects and everything happening It sounded The it's horrifically annoying all of the characters constantly talking Chatting going on and on and on no good jokes. No funny dialogue I don't think I've ever seen something that tries to make so many witty jokes and funny comments and stuff, but misses Um, I I hate it. It's just icky and nasty Uh, the story is terrible. The characters are awful um It's got the it's got all the gaming stuff wrong with it the the Season this and the live service that and you're the if there's some internet or sign up issue You can't play the game single player Um, it's super disrespectful to the dc franchise and the heroes. I hate all of the characters Uh, harley is particularly insufferable in this game Um, it's I despise this game. I hate it. I've never played it and I hate this game I hope it fails and if I I I don't I don't want to talk about it. This is why we're probably not gonna say much more than I think they're You could talk about it, but it would mostly be about here's What they should have done Because what they actually did it can be summed up pretty concisely as Nonsensical and disrespectful merged together um When you've got fucking typos and the thank you kevin message at the end and then your loot box pops up right afterwards It's just all it's just icky and grimy and nasty I hope this game fucking crashes and burns I uh, I I agree with the assessment for again. I haven't played it from what I have seen and heard from the people who played it Uh, I totally agree with the assessment of it being an anti game in the sense that I don't even understand How they could have thought that this was a game that would appeal to anybody I just don't I don't understand like its existence or a lot of the decisions that were made Yeah, this is the game you died in I don't I don't understand like What was the pitch for the end of the arkham version of batman? Is tied up to a park bench and got shot in the face by harley quinn Like how is that an idea that anybody would pitch and go That's a good idea. That's such a good idea. You should do that kill the justice league That's the game and you're like that that's the kind of a game you don't make you don't make that game The thing is I would I would just want to again hone in on this is a batman that you've had in three Slash four games depending on how you feel about arkham origins That is one of the one of the more liked versions of batman played by the iconic voice of batman And you decide it would be a good idea for that character's end to be shot in the face by harley quinn Yeah, harley quinn dresses him down makes fun of him and shoots him in the head Yeah, and then that's it and he's done and meanwhile wonder woman a character who does not have any of this history That exists in these other better games gets more of a heroic send-off than batman. I just don't understand this video springy Well, no, he hasn't uh, I would advise you watch it. I've seen uh, it's a while. I was there to watch some of the Yeah, it looked miserable. Oh, it's so much now that I have context for everything It is so much worse. Um, obviously a lot of people have compared it to joel Because it is the same thing Uh, and it's getting a little bit tiresome. I gotta say like the I don't know why Wonder woman look at this Yeah, I know It's hilarious. Meanwhile the batman who has history in this world The characters are played as in beloved installments Across multiple games. It's just I shoot him in the face. Whatever. He doesn't die as a hero He doesn't die sacrificing himself for something good He doesn't die with any character that he knows or that it's been established. It's He and he doesn't even have to die. That's the thing He uh, I just let everyone just watch the video when I And then of course, you know to to tie back into the gameplay stuff It just looks like a really lame Slug mega slot. Yeah, it uh, definitely is like the infection of you need to make a game where Maybe you do have four characters who are meant to have unique attributes But there needs to be commonalities because it's a live service game where we want that kind of uniformity So just have more run around with guns and shoot these just generic looking enemies with Big numbers popping out and big crazy effects and oh look here's a new gun that you got It's it's just it's just so lame. This game is lame. It's lame. It's super lame From what I've seen The name is I know like I just think it's all I have to say with people is like it's a cancerous Eddie would who hasn't seen the full context. It's so much worse. It's just the more you know about this game the worse it gets um There's there's I think three moments in my full playthrough of disconnecting from the server and my internet is fine By the way, so it's not me at the time like the stream continues. Well, you kept. Yeah, you kept streaming Yeah, so it's it's just like the saddest and grossest thing It's one of the most like off-putting things is someone who's invested in gaming as an art form and an industry that's successful seeing that You've been disconnected from the server. So you get it's not even like uh, oh, you know, the game's got an interruption So we'll give you a check is like no sent back to the last check on the main menu And also it's funny that people keep pointing out that uh, the store loads faster than just regular ui elements Yes, you can try to change your weapon or change your character and or like try to make any changes And it will be loading, but then you pop over to the store and it loads instantly. That's hilarious They make sure you can always spend money on it. I wish I I wish I'd checked that when I got disconnected But obviously I wasn't thinking about the store when trying to play my single player campaign Though I should have been because I was looking for particular aesthetics for king shark And I saw many that were locked that said you you have to buy this at the store And I was just like you gotta be It's so sad to compare to how it games used to work, but I've also got this part right it slowed down It's like look at this ui And I know the memes have spread around already, but just look at this shit. Absolutely It's so ugly It's hideous and and you know, it's good to have information sure, but how could I possibly track all of this shit at once? So that is scored next to truck speed stop tower shield integrity combat flare challenge the radar The description of what my individual buttons do my like, you know Specific moves and their cooldowns the tracker of the car that I'm supposed to look after the enemy tower It's got a link on there And then like the health bars of everything that I'm fighting all the numbers spraying off critical hits spraying off Is bigger and more significant and then just particle effects from the general explosions in the game Obviously my gun my ammo the the fact that it actually like links up Oh, if you want to use your melee attack make sure you press the left mouse click like that'll show up It's like thanks It's so funny when you compare this to a game like max pain three where the ui occupies Maybe two percent of the screen in the bottom right hand corner. There's your health. There's your ammo There's your painkillers that you got there you go and that's really dead space right the goat for a lot of this Oh, well, I was uh, I wasn't gonna because you got games like dead space or you could point to Didn't metro have like a game mode where there was no ui at all Where like every single piece of information was something that was in game Not to say that every game is in a position that they can do that Not every game is in a position where it could have no ui and still function Uh as that well, but like this is excessive What's happening in this game? Um, I will also say this this game is 70 dollars This is a 70 dollar game That is full of premium currency Uh seasons to come It's got it's it's everything that you would expect in a free to play game except it's 70 dollars to get in the door. So Yep, that shit creeps up on you because people uh because people get into it and they spend money on it You know, this is this is rocksteady's first game in nine years. Arkham Knight came out in 2015 This is the product of uh at least seven years of development as I understand it Surely it's reasonable to assume this could sink them. It'll certainly get them lay off I I could imagine that this because the thing is, you know, this is Warner Brothers published this So a game that they can compare it to that came out around the same time last year as Hogwarts legacy which I believe was One of if not possibly the the top selling game of the year They will be comparing this to that they probably have higher expectations for this than that because I think that was their first game for hot or Maybe maybe the first game of that kind whereas this is rocksteady They've made like multiple, you know, very successful commercially successful Well-received games. This is multiple years of development and life service So there's big expectations and big costs that would have been associated with this game And it's it's it's like it's it's basically dead on arrival. Um Could they turn it around? I don't know If you completely change the game sure Some games have turned it around but there for every live service game that turned it around you got like four or five There's a graveyard. Yeah behind them There was a there was a there was not that much space Um, there really isn't that much space in the live service realm There are a few games that are incredibly dominant And then there were a few more games that are modestly successful. They're successful enough to continue to exist But then there is a graveyard of failed live service games But the sad fact is that basically every company no matter how big a failure there is they'll keep trying because one success Can make up for several failures You know call the duty makes more money in three months than some publishers making an entire year alone I mean you get the same problem that you have with um with like the streaming services and I I kind of hope that there is a critical mass of how many live services Even the most You know normie gamer will it will be willing or can afford to pay for um, oh and um, so before I forget to mention someone in chat has Said the way I see it everybody worked on the Arkham trilogy is long gone This is something that needs to be emphasized when you think about like the companies that are the studios that make games is I see I Bungie feels like the clearest example of this um In terms of like an attitude or you can look at something like Naughty Dog Right, I'll give you I'll give you a couple good examples that you should use. All right You should use back for blood from the developers of left for dead Well, that should be your first one your next one needs to be Obsidian from the makers of new vegas because of outer worlds, right? And that like not good from what I've heard and all the reviews I've seen and that came just fucking dead It's gone and the third one will probably be uh ooh I mean I Bioware is uh, it's another one that's being pointed out a really good example. Yeah Our arcane. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we could go on and on but yeah Essentially the the point that's worth remembering is that it's the team It's the team that makes the game like the name of the company the studio itself That doesn't that doesn't describe The the same team that necessarily worked on the games that you liked And when you're this many years removed and the team is a lot bigger and a lot of the people who were there before aren't there anymore Sure same name, but it's not the same team and it's like it's it's always worth remembering It's like well, it's the team the the people that were there that make the game and just because it says rock steady I mean it's the same rock steady just like it's not the same Bioware Not the same bungee not the same naughty dog I wanted to talk quickly about the boss fights Of yeah, absolutely shock in you got in a game built this way You might think like well what do you expect and it's like that's kind of the problem It's like you you represented the flash. He's got super fastness And so you're like, oh, how do we beat him? Instead of going over the story parts that none of it makes any sense You guys can check it out and super cut it's all pointed out You eventually get to a point where you unlock the ability to Shoot him by shooting him with a special shot So you have to shoot him and then shoot him and then he's dead Um, so it's like well that sounds really shit and terrible and it's like yes It is and he spends the whole fight speed forcing around all over the place starting up tornadoes like Firing speed force energy balls at you and stuff and you're just like you could just kill us And the weird thing is they show him killing Lex luther By not even like knowing what happened. It's one of those things right where lex is standing there And then lex has got blood where his heart is and he's just like what the fuck and it's like Yeah, the flash just took your heart out without even realizing it. That's how fast he is Of course, he can do that and he's evil for christ's sake So of course he's gonna do whatever he needs to do to kill him But no it doesn't happen when it comes to tibes suicide squad because of course, why would it? And then um, you know green lantern next up boss fighters just him generating Uh You know constructs that I think You can get away with that in a broad concept. You're like, well, yeah, that sounds like a green lantern fight It's like, okay, so what does he do? It's like he creates gun turrets guns and big sea mines And you got to shoot them all and then you can shoot him It's probably the most creative fight in the whole game. I've been honest with you But um, man for a game that's pitched is killed the justice league your boss fights have got to be Really good. Yeah, you might say the game rests on them somewhat. That's was spectacle But uh, I'd say it rests on them Massively and yeah, this is what it was and uh, obviously people are pointing out. It's like, yeah He was a marine and everything but like surely he's gonna create more than assault rifles and turrets And helicopters that shoot at you It's like it's all just shoots at you stuff and it's like nothing creative Outside of the beginning of the game where he just creates a construct that wraps around all of you Rendering you all useless, but he doesn't do that in the fight with you Doesn't do it several times that man won when you just stand there and shoot It's a big bat man until you win before that like, you know, you get the wonder woman death, which is just she stabs Superman in the heart with kryptonite Right and it goes right through. I'll right. Yeah, but that doesn't kill him Yeah, he's actually fine and as people pointed out, I was like, how is it She's able to stab through him into his heart with kryptonite, but it doesn't kill him And the answer from the game is his dna has been altered so that green kryptonite isn't as big of a deal to him It's like yet it can stab through his heart Okay, you have to build gold kryptonite. So yeah, wonder woman gets a laser. She's out and then You eventually fight batman because you need to capture batman to get batman's dna to figure out What dna changes were made to superman to synthesize a new kryptonite to be able to kill him And so of course when you meet batman, you have to shoot him Extensively as a giant big spooky batman Because what else would it be? Uh, some metal clips in the supercut as well that you guys will enjoy, I'm sure But uh, yeah, so for anyone who's wondering this is the batman fight Arguably the most important fight of the whole game and it's just shoot the big batman Uh, unbelievable That's insane. That's ridiculous It's great So sad I can't believe that that was something that they were like, yeah ship it Yeah, that's good enough this is You would think that fighting batman would be like a a scary tense cat and mouse in the darkness style Oh, well rags. Remember they they did that when you meet batman for the first time and it's all on rails Yeah, that's true. It is kind of completely Completely scripted when you just run around and there are the minds that you trigger but it's not having a choice You have to just get to the certain point and then batman will knock that character out And then you have to get to the next place and then batman will knock them out like they may it's like Fo interactive There's so many elements that are anti-game. This is a lie. This is not what it should feel like to fight batman It's like, well, it's the fear toxis. Like that was your choice. You've made this this why So crazy because the idea of fighting batman as a boss battle is insane. Like that's that's like that's really potentially very hype but uh Not like this Look at this Well, and what's the worst thing as well as you knock his health all the way down big white screen flash And then I love that. I love the big white flash on after the dark and then it just shows this Like, oh, okay Okay, I guess you got him Well, and that's the thing. I wish it was it for batman actually, but it ain't Don't worry after my disconnection. I then get back into the game. So I'm able to watch Harley kill him Uh So that's the end of him and then you get the superman boss fight, which is shoot superman over and over and over and over and over again How creative It's like, well, yeah, you can't just shoot him. You have to shoot him with a special bullet first Oh, okay. Wow. Oh, look at look at him fly around shooting Yeah, look at you go and uh, yeah, it's unreal that you'd be like, so you fight superman batman green lantern in the flash How are those boss fights like all the same? What do you mean? You're you're superman. Yeah, that's right bonus Man Look at king shot go It's so because you you kill superman. He falls over and then nobody really cares They comment on it like briefly and then the campaign just continues like you just killed superman It's superman. I almost felt like an cat added in later or something He wasn't added in later though. He was the face of the the adjustment that you're gonna fight He was in the marketing from the very beginning the flash. That was the one most present And uh in terms of getting the most story. Yeah At and wonder woman and like it does kind of feel like um Well, they've got a weird balance because green lantern has a significant kind of role in the campaign Superman's the one with almost the least significant role Which is weird when he was the face of the marketing of you Superman Yeah, it's superman. He's the leader of the justice league and like we're doing nothing with him. Wow Well, then you have to do a bunch of busy work and then you can fight the final boss by being brainiac and then And then they're like high five and then it says brainiac to feed it Like it's like you just defeated a boss in like a raid or something like oh That was the first thing I thought when I entered the arena I was like this looks like destiny whereas like a raid boss arena creepy alien That's gonna get you and yeah for him You have to shoot him a special bullets and you can shoot with regular bullets The big change here is that he can absorb enemies for health And you can poison them before he does so it deals more damage to him. That's that's a creative thing that they did That's a slight modifier. It's so funny because they'd be like, what's you making fun of us for that? I was like, no, I'm I'm serious and when I say that is a significant upgrade and it's surprising You just seem to not understand that that's how we make boss fights We add all these layers all these different choices all these different can Risk and reward skill level things that require me to actually like my loadout would matter My decision on who I'm using would matter what do what I'm doing What times matters whom against matters all the fucking environmental hazards and levels matters, but no just shoot shoot shoot shoot just keep shooting You played as a king shock the whole time. Is he a favorite character? So I was offered by the games obviously players any of the four and they tell you that depending on the mission You'll get a damage bonus by changing to the relevant characters So for example, if you are gonna do a green lantern related thing You have to play as dead shot because he's got a personal beef with him I decided to forego that and simply play as king shark because I found boomerang and harley's voice acting to be horrifying to listen to It is horrific Within like moments. I already can't stand listening to him and then dead shots. Just lame. He's just guy with gun He's got like big Shark sailor when I guess Yeah, yeah, I tolerate king shark. He's fine. Yeah, I tolerate him But it's weird because he's just sort of he's pretty generic too. They don't do anything with king shark as well He's super generic, but it doesn't Well, yeah, he ain't he ain't the king shark from the suicides. Oh, yeah, he's not that king shark This is like lame shitty king shark. That's just kind of normal. The thing is compared to again. Oh, I'm captain boomerang I'm from australia. Oh, yeah Oh Bloody hell blooming Oh, jeez. What is oh look at that sheila like just rattling off all of the most generic australian things ever This part that a lot of people shit online was like he says to deadshot like aren't you supposed to be what and then he says, uh Are you supposed to be shutting your damn mouth kangaroo looking ass? He doesn't look he doesn't It's like oh my god kangaroo looking at He looks like a kangaroo even though he absolutely doesn't it doesn't he's not funny enough They don't have king sharks say because you're australian Okay, I swear. I think that like all of these discount drax characters just suck They do yeah It's just by the way if you're looking for the australian opinion on boomerang He's he is played by an australian You can most characters that you see that are like australian They're usually not played by an australian and it's fairly obvious to me. He's australian, but he's playing it up big time he is like he is He is drawing it out as much as he possibly can his uh, his old australian accent there. It's uh, pretty excessive I don't know. I compared him to uh pym's dad Who is funny because the contrast? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that that's a good example. Oh, it's down in the body minds It's it's extreme It contrasts to pym exactly as funny as fuck, but then you know, he's just Constantly much more uh, normal australian voice. Well, there's a yeah, so something I do in the super cut is play An audio read of some of the comments that made it into the streams Right and someone highlighted that if you told the actress for for being tar strong, I guess and the guy for uh boomerang If you told them I need to deliver a somber line Like they could do it as actors, but they'd no longer sound like Harley or boomerang Mm-hmm. Well, they have like one mode and it's horrifically annoying. Yeah Well, there's a certain way that Harley Quinn speaks all the time that's it's getting really grating Um, I'm tired of Harley Quinn. I'm tired. Can we like can we just like not can we retire that character for a while? Can we not I just don't I don't I'm tired of that character As you should be um, yeah It can be occupied by other more interesting characters in the batman rogues gallery I'm hoping we like this starts to set in now. Can we be done with her like this is this is ridiculous She's failed so many times. This is absurd Oh, it is pretty crazy. It's not to do with margot Robbie or tarra strong It's what the people who are designing this character are telling them to do I mean remember birds of prey like Nobody Yeah, the dramatic disrespect that's been given to the franchise the ip the characters and then of course following on from the arcane games But it's mysteriously missing for almost everything to do with wonder woman in the game. She's the only character from dc essentially gets unscathed Um Most of them are like hyper at heart. She spends the whole game very heroically Establishing she wants to save the justice league no matter what and she dies Saving the world from superman somewhat, you know, I mean like it's very odd and the suicide squad treated with extreme reverence Um, despite the fact that they hate almost everyone else Including but not limited to the flash who saves their lives personally twice, which is two times more than anyone else in the game Yep Very very fucking odd and uh, then with the whip and uh, it's I mean it Well and and uh, not to mention the biographies, right where hers mentions Her power in stopping toxic masculinity while the rest of them are either neutrally described as a sort of history or shat on John stewart for the fact that he's a space cop, which is fucked up Like like the the the bio takes issue with him being a space cop and then the flashes Which takes issue with him being too far up his own ass Which on top of everything else when you read that you're like, I think I'm done with this game Think this about that Well, something that I've seen which is being fascinating is um, there's been plenty of like mainstream Main, you know, journal outlets that have have reviewed the game like well, the writing's good But the gameplay lets it down. There's like more than if you're writing Fuck me, like we're actually IGN one IGN said something like that. Let me see if I can find it came through They did they gave it a five out of ten, but um You know the the the little blurb where they talk about uh, let me let me just Get to it Hold on down down down down down. Uh, so Um Oh, oh, wow. So this is the verdict suicide squad killed the Justice League is a thoroughly frustrating game to play There are things to enjoy here with combat that's snappy enough to carry it through a genuinely good dc comic story Artfully dressed high production value price Whatever she goes around it engaging mission design is nearly non-existent The looter shooter mechanics are tight and dull and the grotesquely repetitive post game leaves it Little to nothing To do of interest the results is a bit of a mess that doesn't ever impress with any of its numerous ill conceived ideas It's not bad. It's just disappointing from rocksteady pioneers of single player story action chasing already outdated multiplayer Trends a city of tomorrow built on unstable on the unstable foundations of yesterday five out of ten A genuinely good dc comic story The image that's been going around that someone made is uh that about sums up the game pretty well Yeah, so this this is something else to just mention It was I think free mentioned it already uh all rags as well, but the game has a sudden ending It just sort of stops. Um, you kill brain. He had very awkward They inject him with a thing or they data spike him or whatever and it just says brainiac eliminated You're like, okay, and then it says story completed But you're like what like it just feels so fucking weird. It's it's like we didn't even get the epilogue cutscene We just had them high five and it's like okay And then it just cuts into the credits with way music this way too unsuitable and loud you skip that and then it just cuts into Uh, essentially a eulogy for batman in universe that is obviously supposed to be taken as a tribute to kevin conroy and the tribute itself is Clearly like slap-dash and rushed but it's still I guess appreciated But then as soon as it finishes over at png. Yeah, as soon as it finishes slap bang of you've you've unlocked a new Uh Thing mission accomplished. You've got plenty more brainiacs to kill You've got a new gun and then you have king sharks you play in the music Like season one go dig out. Yeah, and all this shit that's live service crap batman's fucking dead It's so gross. I don't know how else to describe it Like look at this like oh you got all this shit unlocked. Yeah and um I suppose on top of that. What's funny is like the the nightmare I just showed you of like fighting bosses, right and the brainiac is no different than all the other ones You kill him and then they say like oh you got 12 more to kill And it's funny because at the time of the stream I was like no way I have to kill 12 of these fuckers So like complete the campaign. They're like no no no no that that'll be the season pass sort of stuff I was like I I hate games. I just hate them. Like what's going on? It's like no, I don't hate games nor do I hate necessarily all this coming out of bond game industry It's just these this trend this disgusting malignant tumor on the gaming industry represented by this game Specifically almost all the design choices made both story and mechanically. I'm just like please stop We need to back it up Seeing all of the little suicide squad they're dressed up as all of these different characters and their crazy skins It's like man Fucking hell, you know like we don't It's just it just keeps reminding you. Ah, yes. This is a product They want you to spend money on this and show off all of your crazy skins and how much cooler your skins are But there's new skins that are coming next season and you want those because they're really cool and they make you look cool It's like uh, it's it's all so fucking lame I think this game might it'll probably get the first season and then after that it'll be on life support if it is I'm guessing six months continued. Yeah, I think it'll I think it will get the first season. Oh good That thing does the first season's content is probably either mostly already done halfway done. Yeah It's it's already had a lot of work stuff into it But then after that they're just gonna put the game on life support And then it'll be like, I guess what uh, what's rocksteady doing next and I guess that'll be the question Do they do they continue to exist? after this game There's there's a real question mark there I'd say on whether or not depending on when all is said and done how well the game actually sold Um, because obviously you got the playing numbers, but like numbers, you know numbers of how many copies were sold And if they say we shipped this many copies, that'll be an indication that it probably didn't sell very well Because there's something you'll notice if a game has sold well They will just tell you how many copies they sold if a game is not sold quite so well They'll say we shipped this many copies or it's sold really fast These are so happy with the reception or we've made so many fans or some bullshit like that It'll just be yeah, it'll just be company speak well When that's it's anyway, that's that game Yeah, that's that game. That's right And uh, fortunately the year has just begun. There's other games. I hear Tekken 8's pretty cool And that just came out there you go Um, yeah, that's yeah, you got that Not uh Wasn't expecting this one, you know the suicide squad to be what it was But I say at the beginning it's like I want to I want to know the context give it a chance And it's like holy fuck. There's so much about this game. It wasn't even being not necessarily not talked about but that I hadn't seen And uh, it was enlightening like I said what I'm playing right now is the super cut that I made Completed like yesterday. So this will be out on mula soon enough. I'll probably do a premiere so you guys can Chat with each other as you see the horrors unfold if you didn't watch the live stream itself And uh more context given to this portion of the Episode of which brings us to the end of tonight's episode anyway Uh, what a what a dense efap that was hey Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was god damn. I was not ready for that video. No It's kind of a surprise It's just funny too because it's like haven't you covered the top whatever reasons for how to save the MCU before it is like Yeah, I've covered these Yeah, not this one. We haven't seen one like this The crazy shit city when oh that is a good question Um, I've got it installed and it's ready to go. I just need to find slots that are good to play it because I got real BBC tomorrow and then are we We plan something for Wednesday. I'm not 100 sure actually But anyway There's a lot of things that are coming out now because uh, they're all reaching the completion of their editing One thing that's worth mentioning is the lord the rings efap movies are now They were split into individual movies and they've just been sitting unlisted They've never made it this far as in they're probably going to be released The day I release Fellowship real BC on a sunday. Oh, sorry. I skipped around in my own head sunday is possible I need to check what I'm doing tomorrow. I might I might do city then Monday I already skipped ahead because I thought sunday was off on monday I don't think I'm gonna be able to do it because I've got um something irl I got to do at an awkward time, but Point being Um, I want to stream city. So you'll be getting it. It's set up and ready to go. It's uh, I didn't mean to say real boosters tomorrow anyway, the Lord the rings efap movies will be Released as individual films to a finally evade copyright I think it'll it'll work if it doesn't we'll just we're gonna give up at that point when they do I'm gonna change all of the thumbnails to match the Original trilogy going unlisted and those coming out as individuals and I'll link them if you want to go back to the comment section on it But that's gonna be how it works Um, which I don't know if it's gonna be weird for any kind of playlists I think it'll still make sense. It's just that trying to make everything make sense like I said Loki's still coming out. That should be Wednesdays and we have begun watching halo season two Uh-huh, it sucks It's shit So what you guys can expect is that that will be coming out as individual tv episodes But once the season's done We will be having an efap episode to cover the whole thing with john er and actman Hopefully when they come we've let them know but the team we've got for efap tv is different so that we have a bit of a Uh, you know a mix, you know, it's gonna be nice and fun. Everyone's looking forward to halo, right? Halo season two, oh, yeah Yeah, I've seen more than a few people saying wait. It's out which by the way, that's That's uh, that's not great for a show that costs a lot of money to make Yeah, there are not many people who are surprised at this even out That's right. Halo season two It's right. It's out. They release the first two episodes and we'll get a new present every week Yeah, I think the next one's out in like five days. It's not good. What? Yes, and I mean, I know it's a surprise. Oh, but they they listen to the feedback. It's gonna they're gonna Look, it's reach remember reach. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah, that's So, um, I think that was all I wanted to mention about the future things So what do you uh, you get anything you guys want to mention? Oh, well, I'm I'm just working. I'm working on uh, working on those halo episodes. So that's that's one Yeah, and the the Loki ones are all Fringy's work as well. So they're uh, they're all they're all done. Yeah Yeah, there's nothing stopping them bouncing from great show to great show Yes Well, you know get excited for whatever may come next, you know I guess for now though, we're gonna wish you a wonderful night To sleep everyone to wake up in a happy new year that too So, yeah, bye-bye Goodbye everyone. Thanks for being here. We will see you later And don't forget to subscribe to nebula where you can get efap episodes and movies one week in advance Don't actually