 So, please take a seat. Welcome to the presentation. Good morning. It's a very lovely day in Amsterdam. And my name is Vazimino Vartilis. I'm going to inform you and entertain you for the next 30 to 45 minutes. So, if you have any questions during the presentation, please do say them. Do not refrain not saying them. And if you're wondering why there is a bottom of beer on the display, it's because that's the name of our project. It's an abbreviation for Blender Extended Expressor for Rendering. What we want to achieve is to create something that's within Blender and that can render MPR. So, what's it all about? We're going to explain. If you're thinking about it has any connection to alcoholic beverages, that's not the case. But in two hours time, the German language group will be reading here. Maybe they have some light on the subject. I heard there are some Germans here. So, maybe some Oktoberfest activities. Now, because we're a project, I want to explain who we are. And to begin from right to left, I begin with the evil genius. His name is Bang Weekwang. And he is from Malaysia. And here's our statement. Many Blenderheads around the world want an all-inclusive MPR rendering solution. So, non-photo-realistic rendering. Now, we begin with a statement, styles are the end product. If you look at the end product from an artist, it's very nice if you can say, oh, that's something from artist A or artist B or artist C. So, that's why we want to use MPR. But if you want to use 3D, you have to let go some way of thinking, some paradigms. So, hence, we're going to explain why we have to change this thinking. Now, this is not a render. It's a painting. It's displayed at the Reich Museum. That's a few minutes from this location. And it's painted by Wilhelm Claeson-Heda. And it's 350 years BB or before Blender. No idea how many bounces he used, no idea how many render time he used, maybe a month or so. So, why are we complaining at this moment? But it was something that shows in his time how close he was to getting to photorealism. So, you can perceive this as real. Now, the next picture is just a few hundred years ago. It's from Vincent van Gogh. He's displayed in Amsterdam as well. So, go check it out. But if you look at the picture, you cannot say it's real. Still, you see it's a photo from a man. The problem, if you look at 3D software, it would be very difficult to get a result like this. And that's what we are aiming for, to get something that's very unique and very... Yeah, well, artists like... So, NPR is not limited to tuner-cell shading. That's a statement because many people think, oh, it has something to do with cartoons. No, that's not the case. It's more like expressive rendering or artistic rendering. Then, hence, we define NPR as everything we see that is not photorealistic. Now, let's think about what we see if we do not know about Blender or anything. What we know, what we perceive in this world that is created with NPR or is like NPR. What is already around us? Now, I'm going to show you for the first example, video games. Ah, no sound. Oh, that's bad. So, this is Ni No Kuni and this is made by Ghibli. So, it's a video game, but it's very anime-like. The next one is Borderlands 2. Sorry, I just want to have this with sound. Sorry, a small interruption. Yeah, sound from the... No, that's my power supply, sorry. Sorry for this interruption. The cliffhanger. Yeah, now it's only on my computer. That's the power supply. Sorry, I'm a noob at presentations, but it's about NPR rendering. But, oh man, this is not good. Yeah, I will get it through the speaker. Sorry for this interruption. So, Ni No Kuni, this is made by incorporation with Ghibli. And you can see it's very anime-like and hence it's very NPR. The next one is Borderlands 2. Well, you can see it's very expressive in its rendering. So, it doesn't conceive as photorealistic. This is Okami. This is very unrealistic as well. And the next one is Team Fortress 2. The reason we contain this video is because it's soft shaded. And it's like the old Disney cartoons. I can tell you this is not realistic as well. I played this game with my 12-year-old boy. And it doesn't play like this. Of course, we could have contained many, many, many more video games. But it's just to show where video games are capable of. Now, the next thing that's around us, which is made with 3D, are 3D anime or 3D movies. And I'm not talking about Toy Story and I'm not talking about Cloudy with a patch of meatballs. But I'm talking about things which are made too bad, not with Blender. This is expelled from Paradise. It's a very new movie, which is going to show in a few months time. Characters are 3D as well. This is Knights from Sidonia. It has some resemblance to photorealistic, but as well non-photorealism. It's made by Polygon. And Polygon is in the next movie as well. This is a new anime from Ghibli. It's called Runya. There are mixed feelings about the shading. Yeah, it's very new. The last one is Cyborg RE009, as well made in 3D. This is from a French company, Goblins. It's a school for art. I wanted to include this because it's not anime and it's definitely an NPR. It's very nicely made and it's... Yeah, well, just enjoy it. Now, we have seen some examples which are made in other 3D software. But there are still around us a lot of examples like Architectural. Some Architectural agencies use NPR for stating their work because it looks like it's painted. The same goes for commercials. People use them because it's a bit different for a car commercial to use something that's made in NPR. This is Toyota, by the way. Now, and of course there are traditional mediums. It's not 3D, but we have included it. And if you're wondering why we have the fruits on the right side, it's piteroia. And piteroia is a red fruit that's used for ink. We had a long discussion about it. I just wanted to share you this information. And yeah, well, you can't use it, but it's something you have to know. Now, if you're wondering, is Blender that so bad? No, exactly. In fact, it's very good. There are a lot of NPR artists who use it to make movies, renders, you name it. And just to show you them, we have asked the community to create something in Blender and to send it to us. And I made a movie about it. Here it comes. Thank you. I think the artists appreciate this. So there are better examples of NPR. But these were the people who acted on our response or our call-out. And if you're wondering, yeah, well, I was seeing some photo realism. Yeah, that's true, because recently we have cycles with freestyle. And freestyle is definitely NPR. I'm not going to mention much about freestyle, but it's NPR as well, because it creates non-photo realism. Now, we've seen a lot of examples. And the question is, why should we use NPR? Well, there's a simple reason for that. That's because of the speed of output and the distinctive styles, hence a unique identity for the artist. So we contained a picture from Andy Warhol. And everybody knows Andy Warhol. Everybody knows about the soup. So if you see this picture, you know, ah, it's a wall. So the same thing goes for the Van Gogh picture or for a Monet. But can you tell the difference about the Willem Claesson Hedda picture painting or Rembrandt? Yeah, maybe because Rembrandt used lightning in a different way. It's more difficult to tell if something is photo realistic. Who made it? And you could ask yourself the same question about Pixar or DreamWork movies. Can you say, oh, this is a typical Pixar or this is a typical DreamWork movie? You are very quiet. I know questions. Everything is very clear. All right. Now, so what is the beer projects all about? Well, because we are a project, we want to have a result. And the result is in a render engine within Blender itself. So to get to this goal, we have a statement. We want an inclusive rendering solution. So that's inside of Blender that breaks rules. So we have to do something different that then is possible at this moment. We have to create a new paradigm or a new way of thinking. And it allows for an optimized workflow. Now, yesterday I heard something from Tom. He was talking about workflows. Everybody wants his or her workflow, but it has to fit some way into Blender. For NPR or artistic rendering, because we are a group, a small group, yes. But there's enough people in the world who are using it at the moment, because I display that. Beer is not intended to replace BI in our cycles. Well, we are referring to the beer project. We have no name for the render itself. So BI or cycles is still going to be in Blender. We do not want to have it to leave it. Now, we have some hurdles to come by. It's sometimes difficult for NPR artists to get to the goal we want, to get this fantastic render. And we only want to use this shader, but it's very difficult. All right. Why is it difficult? What are the problems currently? Well, NPR limitations in photorealistic renders because it's aimed for photorealism. So one of the things we have problems with are nodes. Because if you want to have a very good shader, like Halftone or the Xtune shader, we got on this subject in a moment, but if you want to have a specific shader, it's very hard to come by. And it's possible, yes, but we have to do a lot. Now, this is a typical example of Tune, but it's much, much, much bigger. It is a Tune shader created by Tomorov. He did a very, very great job, but it takes a while to create such a thing like this. And he made an excellent video explaining what he did, but it's pretty hard to get into, but it's all possible. So that's what we are aiming for, to do in maybe a different way. Now, another thing that we feel as a limitation is the strict combine algorithms. Well, because blender internal and cycles use a way to get from what is put in into the shader in the material to what is the output at the render time. Now, why is this a problem? Well, because for NPR, we maybe only have to use diffuse or glossy or transmission, and we don't need the rest. So it's taking bandwidth. I've written down how the blender internal is functioning. And if you want to have a blender internal combine pass, you have to do diffuse multiplied by ambient inclusion, multiplied applied by shader, added to specular, added to emit, added to indirect lightning, multiplied by color, multiplied by intensity, color value, multiplied by effector, added to quantity, environmental, added to lightning and intensity, multiplied by color, multiplied by color value, added to refraction and to reflection. Well, that's for us. There are a lot of stuff we do not need. So that's why we want to focus on something different. Now, third thing we really need. Well, we have the compositor. NPR uses the compositor in a very good way. Only it's sometimes slow. And, well, the question is, do we have to use the compositor at the compositor level or should we use it at shader level? Well, that's a second or third question we have about using blender at the moment. Now, we have unique problems in BI, use nodes, but still use the basic UI. Settings are everywhere. Well, you can argue about that, but it's sometimes because their blender exists for 10 years. Things are built because of a reason inside of it, inside of shaders. And, well, sometimes it's not very logical why you should take something, you have to do something, or, well, I don't know, to use the possibilities into the shader. And there are some limitations document in the bear proposal. I will get to that later. Now, for cycles, it's more trickier to use for NPR, like we want a shadeless shader. That's not possible. Patracing isn't power efficient for NPR workflow. Well, you could argue about that, but we view it like this way. And I've done the halftone shader which was made in cycles. I have a very good power graphic card unit. It was very difficult. And NPR and primitives were a bit difficult as well. Toon shader second stone is just value difference. Now, artworks origin were from 3D and styles expose them to have been done in blender. Generic styles, hence blender, which is a conflict with distinctive style, hence unique identity as seen. Now, let me explain. This is no BI or cycles bashing. We are just viewing upon our promise we have. Now, we have some solutions. We want something to get to our go. What is our go? It should be flexible. Services, 2D, 3D, artistic rendering output. It should be expandable. That means that we should, if you want another shader or something that's unique, you should, it has to be very easy to edit. And it should have a fast workflow. So, if you are going to create a shader, it should be very easy. Or is this of the solution? Well, it started in 2012. There was a big threat on Blender Artist. And there was a call out from Lee Pasi and from Bang Wikwang to ask people, well, we want to have an NPR stuff into Blender. How can we do it? These are the limitations. But we want to have everything from shaders. So, the shaders, the shaders are, the shaders, we have some shaders. I'm going to, I can't, the screen isn't working to do that. But I will say, what kind of shaders do you want to have inside of Blender? Well, of course, Celtune. That's already in there. But we want to have additions for any animation. We want to have control over the normals now. We know that there are projects currently ongoing, which is focusing on normals. But another problem we face is gradation control. Gradation control is like, oh, I want to have a high-dependent gradation. That's a pretty difficult thing to accomplish at the moment. Now, light color and shadow, we want to have more, we want to have soft Celtune shaders like in Disney animation. And, of course, watercolor shaders, that's very difficult at the moment, and shaders that are expressing like it's painted. Now, to get to the core of our thing, we think should be the solution. We have what makes Bear awesome for NPR, real-time preview. That means what you see is what you get. If you are creating a shader, it should be visible on your screen. So what you see on your screen should be the output of the render. Of course, we ought a better workflow, but that's where we think that a layer-shader system would be the solution to this, because if you look at Photoshop or GIMP, they use this as well, and they're pretty non-photorealistic, or photorealistic. It depends on how you use Photoshop. But that's something we are thinking about. This is a rendered result as preview. I told you that flexible, so you have only used the part of the shader. You want to use animating the shader, that's if you have an animation, it could change, and ease of adding a new shader. Now, we have defined something for what we have to use in our render, and we have a video demonstration of how we think the render should be made, and I'm going to explain you and let you notice what we are doing. Now, this is the bare demo. This is the bare bot. It's made by McClellan, and it's going to explain what we are visualizing and how to use the render layers. On the left, you see which primitives we are using. On the right, you see what we are modifying on the primitives. In this way, we use a shader. We're going to use the diffuse, and we're going to build the bare bot in something that is usable for us, and it's not photorealistic. To get to the left side, we use the primitives. What are primitives? A primitive could be a shader. It's like a base color, or it could be light dependent, it's eliminated color diffuse, or it could be few dependent, because if you look at a shader in your screen, it has to... Well, you can only show a few from view point. A few and lighting dependent gives the highlights and the specularities. And of course, we have some screen space shaders, like the halftone. Now, we see the halftone displayed in a moment. It's hatching. It's drawn by a pen or pencil. Color grading. Well, I was talking about that. Here you see the halftone on the head. And we want to have custom shaders as well, like using depth, or using few depth, or using a key shader, or using the height of the shader. Well, most things are in nodes as well, but we have a much broader perspective of how you can use it. Okay. This was how we visualized, how we could use the new blender renderer. Okay. So how bear differs from BI in cycles? Well, render passes. We do not use render passes, render passes are made in the shader itself. Compositor input. So that's at some times, we can put the compositor input at the shader level. It may not have nodes because we are going to make shaders. If you are questioning about, yeah, but why don't you use nodes? Well, we explained it, but to make a sidestep, Cinema 4D is using layers as well for its photo realistic shaders. Well, if that's good or not, I do not know, but we are going this route. Shader setup method is faster and it's easier to explain, easier to say which shader it should be. It should be very easy to copy one shader which you already made to a new shader and just add something or subtract something. Lightning management should be easy and world screen effects should be easy. The way forward, well, we talked about products, we talked about market demand, we talked about artists, but we still have developers and development opportunity. In any project, well, they are mostly one of the most important people. So how are we going to go to our goal? Well, at the moment, we have already defined some development targets and the first thing we want to do is proof of concept. That means a null render and an UI mock-up. At this moment, we are already starting with the UI, which is made in Python to see if everything is okay and to see if everything is working. But we are also going to make the null render and the null render is, in fact, the real renderer. What we are thinking about is using the OpenGL, which currently or which is to come into Blender. So there is a site project going on. That is a viewport project. And the viewport project is very important for us because if you want to have what you see is what you get, well, you should have the viewport project. But something not everybody knows is the OpenGL renderer is already inside Blender. There is already a functionality for it. So we are going to see what we are going to get and how far we are going to get. But we are calling out to others because our interest is the same as the game engine developers. I believe they want the same things like us. They want to have a higher level of OpenGL and they want to have to see what you see is what you get as well and involve more of the development community in general. Well, I explained to you that we have a fund, a small fund at the moment because the Blender NPR organization is selling freestyle courses and the reason is we want to get this project funded so when we get from Python to programming in C or C++ we can do it on a higher level instead of still staying in Python. Of course, you could get around that by making an external render but we don't want it external. We want it internal. Now, this is a call for actions. We are already started but we are really hoping that people will get on our bandwagon and will get onto our project which are related to us or will buy some more freestyle courses so we will be able to fund it later on. That's very crucial but we are definitely calling out to others please join our project. And of course, the grand summary, Bear is the project for an all-inclusive rendering solution in Blender. You can find us at blendernpr.org the Blender NPR Twitter account, the bear.blendernpr.org and the Facebook group that's very special because we use that for freestyle as well. We have a lot of discussions going on there but we have an own project site at the moment which we are using to get better interaction between project members. And of course, there is a Bear podcast which is done by Li Pasi and Bang Wikwang which explains where we are at the current project. And this is the end. 99 bottles of beer on the wall. Well, I don't want to count to 98, 97, 96 but if there are any questions, please do state them. Is this everything? No questions? Was it that clear? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Does it work? It works? Okay, so the question is did you consider using open-shading language and not preset for cycles? Yeah. What was the easiest with this approach for your goals and things like this? The reason is because... I have a loud voice. I don't need a mic. The reason was because what I stated cycles is not something you can use for NPR because you even can get a base shading. It's a shadeless shader. It's like full color, no diffuse, no nothing. Was this your question? It should be possible in open-shading language, I believe. Yeah, well, we have been looking at the open-shading language as well but not everything is possible. Trust me on this and even the open-shading language is difficult to use. Yeah. We will work on node presets and stuff like this and I believe it should help at some point for your project as well. And also projects like Uber shader. Yeah. All this should have been saved. Let me tell you that if you Google on halftone shader that's made in cycles and if you're gonna fire it up in cycles, it takes a few minutes to render. And that's a problem. We want to have speed of output and the speed of output is because we think and we believe that this is very usable for small startups on the internet which are small animation startups which are gonna use this solution to create some animation with it. So yes, we have looked at cycles but please do join our discussion and prove that we are wrong. Well, I'm not saying that we are wrong, just throwing ideas, you know. Yeah, but that's the main point. We want a solution and the solution is creating something with NPR and if there is a good solution, why shouldn't we use it? And then we can discuss later about this and some technical details of this. Maybe improve standard King Blender and not saying that it's useless or so, it's just like maybe it can improve Blender itself to make life easier for everyone. Maybe I can say something too. I really am a big fan of NPR in general or manga, cartoon, everything. I think the beer project has a lot of good aspects because we have to think about how do you make good editors and tools for artists to make content. But what I'm having a problem with is to put it so separately. But I don't see it as a separate thing. If you look at yesterday's screening of the Suzannas, it was a complete rinse between traditional, almost realistic computer graphics up to a cartoon style or to a paper style or the other styles you want. I think it's essential that Blender gives artists a tool to make what they have in mind. And I don't want to put artists in a box like, oh, you do photo realism, so you have to be here or you do non-photo realism, so you have to be there. It's a scale, it's a gliding scale that goes from one to another. There's maybe even a multi-dimensional scale because you can do many ways which you can apply computer graphics. Call for actions. We're calling out. You have real-time 3D, you have CLSL, you have game engines, you have rendering, you have cycles, you have freestyle, so you have a number of tools. And I think your proposal is not so much about NPR. The proposal is about to get a shader system which is a design based on making very efficient cartoon style films. That's it. This is fun. This is great. But that's a specific workflow and I want to help people to build workflows in Blender. Sorry to interrupt, but it's not only for the workflow alone. It's for the easiness of creating the shader itself. Of course, but if you talk to shader artists, they will always want to have easier ways to create shaders. And I think every shader artist will agree on having better tools to do it, but you need less notes or less buttons and less interface to do it. And your question is not a different one than the other ones. So putting it so separately makes your case very weak because your case is not separate. This is also our problem, right? That's why we're still coming out. And the other versus the rest of the world. So we're not against, no, because we are not against the world. We are the world. We want to get the world talking with the world. So that's why I'm standing here and that's why I want to go out for doing this together. But I had this discussion before on the forums and I didn't talk to you, but I talked to the others. I think we should do together is to set steps, especially to look at, okay, we have Blender internal, we have Cycles, we have the shaders, we have materials, we have the Viewport project. How do we design tools in Blender? How do we extend things in a way that all the artists will be able to use it, from the game artists, to NPR artists, to manga artists, to researchers, to architects, they should be able to use it. And that is not beer. The beer is the project name. So you said that you want to have it inclusive, but the inclusive method is by helping the Viewport project. Yeah. Exactly. But that's our view as well. Only we want to get in touch. And that's why we want to start after this presentation. This is the starting point to get in touch with the rest of the community in Blender. But it's not a we that is the Viewport project, which is an open project, you can join that. And you can join that as individual, as you. Yeah. Or as another developer. True. Or as a cartoon artist. But that's what I rather see. Of course, it's good that you say, well, we want to have more NPR features in Blender, but it feels like, as if you say, well, we have our own ideas if we want to realize it. This is fine, too. But then you should decide to make your own renderer. I said, well, we put a new renderer designer in Blender. Is it new? Question. Is it new? It's in fact not not that new because there's already an open GL render inside of Blender. The only thing that's new is the way we want to use the UI to create the shaders to use in open GL rendering. So it's not that new. It's already in Blender. I don't say this, but I mean, conceptually, you can put it as a choice for artists. And I'm not against that. I said that's what it might be all clear. Then you say, well, we have the interface for Blender. You can say, I'm going to do cycle stuff, or I'm going to do Blender internal stuff, or I'm going to do NPR beer stuff. And then you can say, well, we design it the way we want it. And then we try to make it optimal for our users. Yeah. That's what you proposed. But that's not inclusive. That is exclusive. So that means that you try to make it optimal. And I'm not against it. I say, but it's a matter of... We always can make it exclusive, but we don't want to. We believe that it's a very good addition to make something out of Blender that is widely used in mostly Asian countries, but is not in it at this moment. If you're looking at NPR solutions, and what I showed, not made in Blender, and we want to have it made in Blender. Of course, there are a lot of steps to cover to get to this point because it's not having only the functionality. But like I told, it's having courses, explaining how to use it. It's like having freestyle. It has a fantastic... A fantastic new opportunity to use the strokes. Marvelous. But how many renders have you seen which have been made by it? Now, that's something we want to... We do not want to. So, we know there's a demand for this. There are a lot of... Many people are just... want to use it for NPR rendering, and we showed it with the small movie we made for the Blender community. So, there's a demand. And if there is a demand, can we use it? Yes or no? Will it give addition to Blender? Yes or no? Yes. It definitely will give addition. And yes, we want to get into a higher level of industry and on a higher level of artistic users. I want to challenge the people who can make a Van Gogh render using Cycles or Blender internal. So, if it can be created in OSL, please, I challenge you to create something like that. Yes, it can be done, but is it easy as or no? No, not so easy because you have to use textures. Okay. But there is also no beer code, so you cannot prove that you can do it in beer either. So, it's not about that. It's about trying to... Not yet. Yes, but... I mean, if I wouldn't have Cycles and Blender and somebody would make a presentation, ah, I want to have Cycles and Blender, and we have a great plan and stuff, and we're going to crowdfunding and stuff, I would say, well, I first want to see it. What Brecht did was he coded the thing and said, look, this is what we could have. And then people say, oh, wow, right? So, I really wish you the success and the luck you need, but you should start getting coding. Get the code. We are. We are. We are. And then people will say, wow, that's it. Now we get it. Yes. And that's the same road which Freestyle traveled as well. It started outside Blender as a separate project and see where we are nowadays. Everybody is happy to have Freestyle. But where is beer? I can't... Ah-ha-ha. You said we are coding, but where is it? Beer is starting at the moment. And that's why we are calling out. Because we want to have this communication. We want to get... Let me visualize it. What I want to do with beer. I don't want to have beer here. I want to have beer here. In fact, this... People make it. No, no, no. I want to make it together. Of course, we will make sure that those things can be compatible. But our project is going on. And the viewport project is going on. So you can look at it and make sure that those things that happen in the project align with your ideas. But I think what you should reach out is within your user community, find the developers who really get this idea. Because it is a different idea. And I think you should have the space to realize it. But take that space. But you cannot expect that to happen by talking about it. No, no, no, no, no. That's very clear. But we are not expecting like somebody is waving with its magical wand. And then it's happened. But it will be a long road. And we know this. But we can travel along this road. And we want to not do this alone. Not by ourselves, but with others. But that's why I propose to find out if there is an intermediate way. Where you can say, you can still have your own space and take it whatever you want. Because that's your freedom. But we want to move on with Blender Internal. And we want to move on with the viewport project. So what are the small things we could do to make sure that NPR artists are still happy blender users. And that's what interests me more at this moment than making a project which is more for the mid or the long term. What are you proposing to get in touch with the people who care? So how can we get together? So on IRC or do we have to... There is a Blender NPR mailing list. Yeah. We are going to use this as well. Instead of talking about this project, I would rather talk about what can we fix in Blender Internal? What can we add? What can we fix better node shaders or the layer editor? Or what kind of little steps we can make to make their lives easier? Those steps are feasible. That's what we can start tomorrow. Fixing Blender Internal is going in depth in programming in C. And what we are currently doing is programming in Python, which is much, much more easier than using the OpenGL renderer. Well, it's more difficult. I've looked at the code, how Blender Internal was created, and it's daunting. It's very more difficult. That's what... But render coding is not easy. You need coders who understand this level. Anyway, we can talk about it. I want to give the microphone to one other person, or maybe it's already 11 or... Because about the developers, I got the impression that you had the problem of finding a developer for this project. Is that correct? Yes and no. We can find developers, but they are often paid. And that's normal. Everybody has to pay its bills as well. Yeah, of course. Have you already found the person who will do it, as soon as the 20,000 are raised, or the 25,000? No. We have currently 2,500 US dollars raised that's displayed on the Blender NPR.org organization. Why we want to do it in Python? Because you can't say, oh, this is the functional design. This is the technical design. Go program. It doesn't work in this way as well. So that's why we want to have something in Python which we can show to a coder, oh, this is what we want. Can you make it more easier? Can you make it more sexier? But if we want to get more funding, well, we have to think about other ways to get it funded. Because, of course, we can go to Uncle Tom, but I don't know. He can't wave with his wand either and has a lot of money. So we have to see where we can find each other. But everybody is welcome on the project to think about it and to get along with it. All right. Does this answer your question? So to sum it up, basically you haven't found a programmer yet. You're trying to get the money? I realized that? Yeah. Okay. Well, currently I was just telling to Tom, well, I'm looking into the code. There are others, but I don't have that much experience in C or Python. But still, I'm listening to what Tom says and I'm an artist, but I'm starting with coding. So, and that's, I think, the way to, if you want to achieve something, you have to get your hands dirty. And I'm willing to make my hands dirty. And others are as well. All right. In Blender, we also have a lock render project. There's Mitsubar render. People are, there's a talk today for V-Ray and there's other Octane. They're all render projects that use Blender and prove that it really can work. It's not a bad idea to look at that way to work with it. Okay. Hello. Have you seen the screening yesterday for the Susan Award? No, I haven't because I couldn't, it wasn't on the livestream. If you look at the movies that were made to a cycle, they're incredible. And there's nearly no limitations that you have from an artistical point of view. And you can do many, you can do your oil effect in the compositor. If you know how to do it, you put some time in it. And you can do everything with Python. There is no need for C++. Even watercolor? Watercolor shader is extremely difficult. If you want, okay, I'm an artist myself and I would need a shadeless system in Cycles. But there's probably much easier ways to do it. Write a little plug-in and build the freestyle that is built into Blender right now. It's amazing. But it's much easier to improve it step by step. And I cannot see the sense in B2 because it's just another word for NPR, which is rendering by the way. It's never really realistic. True. And we want to use a photorealistic engine to do not photorealistic things. If you collect money and do a separate project, the whole movement loses some speed. If we put the energy into the development of the existing technique, it will be much better for everyone. That's a possibility. But the existing techniques are there as well. I have to wrap it up. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are you living in Holland? I'm living in Gorogen. Pearl, Southern Holland. Do you live there? Yeah. I'm just Dutch. I'm born in...