 Welgwm yn y Toffey TV, dwi'n mynd bai Matt Jackson. Just going to quickly talk about current evidence. We've checked out Matt's interview, all about how influential he was when we won the FA Cup. Single-handedly won the cup, I think, was the line you used. Matt, was that right? I might have been miscoachy, but... OK. Well, I mean, people can see it. It's on the video. I just wanted to get your thoughts on Carlo Ancelotti, really, coming in as evidence. My manager, obviously, when Michael Silver was shocked, and then your old team mate, big Duncan, took the game, you know, took for three games and was very good. I mean, when you played with Duncan, was there any inclination that he would be a manager? No, I mean, I think it was hard to say that he would be a manager in that regard. And ultimately, he hasn't been it. I'll put off a bit of a hazy. So, I said I was interviewed quite soon after. Maybe the day before, actually, Ancelotti was actually appointed saying, it's really big for Duncan now, you know, what his decision will be in terms of having had that little taste of it as much as he loves Everton and he's going to have this fantastic role under Ancelotti. At some point, do you have to go to come back? And it's a difficult decision, a tough one. I mean, he was always a great character, a lot quieter than, you know, people possibly would think with what he expressed when he went on to the field. And obviously, we all know him well within these sorts of environments in it. And he's loves to talk about the game. And you would know he would always have the passion and the drive to want to be the manager and he did a fabulous job in those games. And ultimately, I think Carlo has benefited from that bit of stability that Duncan brought in in terms of maybe not being the most technical performances from the lads, but at a time that was really tough, as it always is when there's a transition of managers going, got them to a point where it wasn't a panic, they're out the bottom three. It doesn't feel like a big crisis issue. And I think certainly Carlo and his staff have benefited from that. Were you surprised that Everton were able to guarantee a lot of you? I was a little bit. I was and I'm delighted with the impact he's had. And I'm delighted that he looks like he really fancies the job because he's been super successful. He's got that unbelievable CV. I presume there is no financial constraint that means that he has to take a job. So he's making it because he wants a job. Obviously, I know he's got his son as part of the coaching staff, which is great, and if it's about that transition, absolutely fine. But it looks like full commitment and that's all you would ask for this football club. He come out and said the other day that he actually wants to be longer than his four and half year contract because that's how much he's enjoying it. So I suppose that's great news for Evertonians to hear. And like you just said, he's managed, you know, your Ventus, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, PSG, Napoli, you know, big, big clubs. That was always a toughy at heart. Well, exactly, you know, he knows. But so financially, he's not had to come here for them. I'm sure he was quite well paid in other jobs. So it is about the drive at that age as well. Sixties still have that hunger and desire to do well. I don't think that will ever go. And I'd like to think if I was in that same situation that at some point you'd want to probably challenge yourself. Because you'd have known this wasn't going to be easy. You're not walking into a situation that's going to be a cake walk by any stretch. And I love the fact that he wanted to challenge himself and set himself a task. Whatever the motivations are, knowing that you've got to do that. You know, if you're a marino or an enchilotti, at some point, do you just go and take a league one job that they never do? But you know what I'm saying? How much of an impact can I make to a football team that is where it's a struggle? So I mean, we're not league one. No, no, that's not the point I'm making. And that is exactly why leading back to a dunx dilemma, you know, Robbie Fowler, Tony Grant out in Australia at Brisbane, I'm desperately trying to get that management foothold. Tony's been great for the football club in a scouting capacity. It's out there. They had to go to the other side of the world to get an opportunity to try to maybe come back. You know, it's hard, a brutal, brutal environment to earn a living in that coaching side. It's great for Duncan to be obviously working under enchilotti as well in terms of, you know, a sponge. He's had a little go on himself. He was able to fire the players up. And now he's got one of the most decorated managers to work under it. It's incredible for us. Obviously, there's been a big improvement. Everton are now seventh and in the hunt for Europe, which is great. You know, it's madder isn't it, Joe's, how foot he can turn. And just from it, because obviously you were out of it when you got into Europe, I've seen people not complain but are concerned about squad depth. But as a player, surely if the opportunity is there to get into that Europa League next season, do you want to do it regardless of the squad depth? Yes, I think to a certain extent that's the case. I think there's a problem with the Europa League in the way that it's looked on by football because the Champions League, rightly, is such a massive competition. So if it feels like an afterthought, then maybe that's not the greatest from a motivation point of view. And ultimately, if it is affecting what becomes Sunday fixtures, then it really does become an issue. Close to Sean Dyche up at Burnley and I know the problems that there may be. Burnley in Europe are fantastic. Why would the whole club, the whole town not embrace that European football? But ultimately, it almost becomes a pain because it so affects the bread and butter of everyday Premier League existence, which unfortunately is the livelihoods of so many people and the clubs themselves in these instances. I think with us, obviously, we've had more resources and Wolves are doing it really well this year. They've negotiated it well and they're into the next round. And then there's obviously, I think a few years ago, that would have definitely been the case because the prize money in the Europa League was nothing, but now it's the group stage, I think it's 12 million quid. So that's for FFP and there's also the prize of if you win it, you get in the Champions League, it's Chelsea with the benefits of France. And that is huge, but you still manage your squad, you know. Do you want your strongest team playing in that European tie on the Thursday night? Or do you want to see your squad being at its best on the Sunday for whatever that premise? So as a fan, you then have that dilemma. Obviously great when we mix the squad up and it'll be a bit of both, but then unfortunately you get a bit of both results and nobody likes that. No, I'm still want us to get in. I'm going to touch Carlo. He says he wants to play every three days. He would have a plan for sure. He'll be alright. And then obviously off the pitch the move to Bramley Mordoch having put plan and permission in now for that and hopefully we'll hear that in the summer. Gwdyswn park, I mean it's a, you know, what a stadium you played there many times. You'd be sad to see it go. Obviously from a historical point of view, of course. But when you see the experience that's on offer and again horribly the amount of money that good stadiums proper new modern stadiums are able to take that then makes a difference on the pitch. That's, you know, it's huge. But they do a brilliant job at Gwdyswn with that matchday experience. The staff are always magnificent, but you are left with what you're left with. You know, when you walk into the Gladys Street and send yourself back into the 1960s, it's not the full fan experience and it's not the experience that the fans deserve. Of course, we've all had great nights at Gwdyswn and great Saturday afternoons and, of course, you'll be nostalgic and whimsical about it. But ultimately, you also want to move at the time so the team can be as competitive as we want it to be. And it does look like the stadium's going to be magnificent down on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey down there, be lovely. Can I just ask you about Marcel Brands, about the director of football, because this is a role essentially you've done at Wigan Athletic. I know it might not be called that. Well, no, but you've been involved in all that academy recruitment. The fabric of a football club. So, because I still think here in this country, people still are unsure about the role, particularly in the Premier League, people still... I don't know, the manager should make all of these decisions, but you've seen it at both sides of it. The manager is often the one that is unsure about it. That's the difference in this country, that a lot of the resistance comes from the managers. So it's tough. Ultimately now, multimillion-pound businesses outside of football don't get run necessarily by the line managers. They get run by people at the top who have the good of the entire business at heart, because it's such an emotional game. And if you're the manager and you know that three games down the line from however good your position is, you're going to be under pressure. You're not looking at the long-term future of the football club. You haven't got the time to see the detail of what the progression of the under-17s through... You know, when you've got a fantastically funded academy, it has to lead to something. So there has to be somebody saying, okay, how do we look at the succession planning so that we aren't investing 2 million pounds a year into an academy that we'll never use? Because the manager, understandably, he's looking at Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, wondering whether he's got a job at the end of it. So it amazes me that there hasn't been the transition into every club doing it pretty much at every level, because short-term planning in football clubs is the most dangerous thing you can do. You have to have a long-term plan and you have to have a structure that's available. And you have to have succession planning of coaches so that you don't end up a point in the manager who is never going to like, you know, Roberto Martinez, Sam Allardice, football spectrum, we're caught in the middle. You'll have millions of pounds worth of wages and talent that is isolated one way or the other. And so if the succession planning is wrong for coaches and managers, it can get football clubs in a horrible, horrible position that takes years, literally years to recover from. I think, to be honest, I think that's where everything are. You know, we've had that situation where managers have come in and quite rightly say, you know, Ronald Coomer, Maziath, but a bit, we bought all kinds of players even out the door. We had Sam Allardice, you know, we'd already had Martinis, he's gone out with other Michael Silver's coming. When you're looking at the football club as a whole and how it moves forward, if you're... It makes so much sense to have someone who has a thread and sees where it's going and then try to make the manager fit the team, right, and the team fit the manager because, like you just said there, what manager buys eight players, nine players, doesn't work, he gets sacked, the next manager comes in and goes, well, I don't, them six can't play in my team. And then you're left with that right now, trying to get people out on loan because this manager doesn't want them and they're on big wages. So it makes sense to just have someone, a director of football, if you like, or a sporting director, with that one vision. The fabric of that is vital, vitally important. So at all levels, really at all levels, because so much money is off the picture any given time. That's the thing in Premier League clubs. And fans want an identity as well. They want the School of Science to produce footballers. And there's a snobbery to it at times at all clubs where they feel like they have a divine right and look at Marino going into spurs and the spurs fans are, well, we don't want that sort of football. Well, do you want success or do you want a little bit of defensive structure? So you have that all of the time. The one thing I remember saying in the interview that I did right before Angelotti signed was that I hoped that they didn't have a mad January where they signed a whole load of players quickly. And I was saying at the time that it felt like the club were going to be fine from a survival point of view. That was never any doubt. So spend four or five months finding out exactly what you've got before you then do the summer restructuring to say we now know exactly what we need. Because there's always players, and Calvert Llewans being the perfect example of it. Suddenly he's popped. We all know he's a good player and he's got an ability, but suddenly, bang, you can be a massive part of this as opposed to being, we know you're a good player, but we're not exactly sure what it is that you can do that's the best for us as a football club. Whereas Angelotti comes out and says, bang, I'm going to build something around you and you're a star for me. Brilliant. That's £100 million you want to have to spend. I mean, that's how ridiculous it is in the modern world, isn't it? It makes, I mean, that makes so much sense. Can I just ask you finally, because you've worked within an academy structure and players, the under-23 football, there's a huge difference between playing under-23 football and playing, say, Premier League football, even playing Championship football, you know, for these kids. There's a lad at Wigan, Joel Gellard, who's really linked with, you know, you probably know about him and, you know, can he step into the Premier League? Where's that gap? Because for me, the 23s, the gap's just too big. Is there any way we could bridge that gap, do you think, or...? Not really. OK. Not that isn't being done, because there's so much money being spent on the academies, people are absolutely desperate to find a way that that's the situation. Is it simply loans then? So, loans are, but so many loans, I mean, I've done it, that role, as you say, at Wigan, where we don't want to take lads on the first loan, because they come out of the 23 environment and can't go into that. You're playing for livelihoods, people. So, everyone thinks League One, League Two are cruising to that as an un-23 player. You just can't do it. But the mad thing is, you're talking about the transition from under 23s. You know, it used to be that if by 18, 19, you weren't on the fringes, you were never going to be a player. You know, you now got lads at 23, you've never played first-team football. So that was my point there. Which is amazing. And ultimately, be good enough. You know, if you're a young player, find a way to be good enough. You know, Tom Davis, find a way to influence enough to get yourself in that team. Cos it can be done. Do you think it should go back then to certainly under 21 level? But because we say this, when we talk about Everton's kids, is that if they're not banging on the door at 19, are they really going to be any good in two? Because we've got Anthony Gordon now who's 18, and he's played a couple of games already. And he's already come out and said, this kid is going to be a first-team player. Brilliant. We know that cos he's got the level. There's a couple of others that haven't knew you go yet. But there's lads in our under-23s who are 22 and have never played. And you're like, they're never going to play for us. The 22 years of age, you've never been involved. So how do we strip that back? Well, if you've got a succession plan that allows those players to develop and be sold as assets, which then funds the next ones through, cos the statistics tell you that everybody can't be a player. So there has to be players going out of the academy, which is absolutely fine, as long as you protect yourself with cell-on clauses so they become players elsewhere, that's absolutely fine. There's no problem with that, but don't have them sit and kick in their heels for three years. Don't have that development plan for them, then release them into the football wilderness. And they do go into the wilderness because you leave Premier League clubs at 23 and think, oh, I'll go and cruise it in the championship. And they don't. And you know what, within two years, they're not playing any football. That's the thing. And that's where it's wrong. And that's where it's hard. But to be one of the best footballers in the world to play Premier League football, it should be hard. But you've got to find a way. Don't feel sorry for them because it's not the system's fault. You've got to find a way in that system to be good enough cos everybody that's playing in the modern world has found a way to do it. You've just got to make yourself be one of those. And you might look back on opportunity and you might look back on, I was injured at the wrong time or whatever it might. I never, you know, I never... It was all a bit soft and I didn't know how important it was. Well, find out how important it was to make yourself a player cos there's nothing better to be doing. I mean, moron anter. Moron anter, this isn't it? Because you can sometimes go, oh, it's the system, not stopping these players. But I'm talking about Anthony Gordon, who ultimately is good enough because he's in the first team squad. This is where, you know, some of our... Some of our tonings will say, like, Tom Davis is a championship level player. And you're like, well, he's played over 100 Premier League games. So I think he would have been found out earlier if he was a championship player or did he not tend to subscribe to that? I'm not specifically talking about David. No, I know you're not. I just mean, if a player's played 100 out of games, that's 21. I mean, funnily enough, growing up, I was always told you do not consider yourself a player until you've played 100 games. That's why I kind of smile at that because it was something that was drilled into us. So, I mean, if you're getting that sort of exposure, and I think for someone, I know you're not talking specifically about Tom, but at some point, he has to become a major influence on the team. Because what we're really talking about is players being a major influence on the team. And that's what it comes down to. You know, you can put any player into a team environment. There's 10 other players and they're great. That's why it's often easier to go into teams that are doing really well because you're going into a team that knows what's doing. Going into a relegation threatened team as a young player is tough because it's hard. You know, players are looking after their own careers. They haven't got that bond of everybody looking after each other. So, it's tough in that environment. But for someone like a Tom who's game is based on obviously having the sort of power and that running ability and going box to box. But if you suddenly think he's going to be a super creative player that's spraying 200 passes a game and creating numerous chances, that's not and shouldn't be his niche in football. So, you have to accept players for what they are. And the athletic side of the game now is almost overtaken, that ability side. That's why the best athletes who can really play are such superstars because you have to have that athletic ability first. It's a tough one. It is a tough one. Are you still thinking you're going to be a player or... Is it someone else's fault that you're not? I might come and have a game footy with you later. You see. I'm not sure it'd get in our side. No, maybe not. Maybe not. I was just about to say, what can you do? Talk a good guy. That's the best way. That's the way. That's the secret. Big thanks to Matt. Massive thanks for coming in on this chat with us. Cheers. Make sure you subscribe. Give the video a thumbs up. And if you want more videos, tune in to Sean Payton. You can also find Matt on Sky Sport, co-commentate on Major League Soccer, which begins the first week in March. He's the man. Listen to it. See you later. Cheers.