 Welcome back to Why In The Morning, and if it's Tuesday, it's Entrepreneurship Tuesday, right here on Y254 channel. And Y254 channel is where you can find us across all our social media handles at Michelle, as she writes where you can find me across all of my socials. In this particular session, we dive into an interview that looks at changing perception of green spaces. All right, you and I know that if there's no green spaces, I don't know where you and I will be at, because the aspect of just relaxation, you know, these spaces, it's also incorporates a good mental and physical health, especially during this time of COVID-19, whereby we can use these spaces to exercise, just take a breather, just enjoying this space where you can run away from the heat, especially when the weather decides another tone. And we just run to the green spaces. And in studio, I am joined by none other than Phyllis Wamaida. She is an environmental advocate and a lawyer by profession. Happy Tuesday, how are you doing? I'm doing good, how are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me. You look fabulous. Thank you. So Phyllis, starting us off, for someone who's watching this, we'll be joining us through this conversation and they're wondering what are these green spaces you're talking about? And basically, we'll be just going through this conversation under the umbrella of Daima Coalition. Daima Coalition? Yes, yes, yes, it is. Yes, Daima Coalition, so take us through that. Okay, just to give you a small insight on what the Daima Coalition or the Daima green spaces is. Daima consortium or the Daima Coalition was formed a year ago, that is last year, November. And the reason for the formation of the Daima Coalition is due to the commission of the Nairobi Expressway that happened last year. And what happened was that when the Expressway was commissioned, 1.3 acres of the Hurupak were going to be halved off. So this brought about different conservationists as well as environmentalists to come together and see ways in which we can be able to protect the Hurupak because it's been shrinking since 1969. So we cannot afford to lose 1.3 acres. So we came together and we had an activity called the Daima Hurupak or the Hands of Hurupak last year on November 3rd. And from then, we've moved on to not just speak about the Hurupak, but we've also been focusing on other green spaces and seeing ways in which we can be able to increase green spaces in our cities and country at large. OK. I think you're on the lookout for us, the people who love green spaces. And it's actually important for mental and physical health as a seed. But some section of Kenyans will argue that the Nairobi Expressway project, the good intention part of it is that they tend to weigh down on the traffic. And just less traffic, hence the low prices of fuels, especially along Mombasa Road. So what's your take on that? My take on that with regards to the expressway, one thing that I would like to talk especially to the youth is when you look at any sort of development, one question that you need to ask yourself is, is this development sustainable? So when you're talking about the Nairobi Expressway, there has been a lot of issues with regards to its commission. Number one, the environmental impact assessment and audit process was not the environmental impact assessment process was not due for load as it should be as it is written in the EMCA as well as a constitution of Kenya. So the due process was not followed. So that is the first thing. The second thing is that the Nairobi Expressway is supposed to help decongest Nairobi. But the question is, how will it help do that? So I'm just going to give you a small scenario on what the Nairobi Expressway is about. So maybe you can get to understand what our position is. So basically the Nairobi Expressway is going to provide a medium lane, sorry, whereby private cars are going to be using the expressway itself and other public transportation are going to be using the normal routes. So what will happen is that we have 10% of Kenyans who use private means. We have 80% of Kenyans who use public transportation. We have 10% of Kenyans who walk. So the Expressway is only going to cater for 10% of Kenyans. So the first question we need to ask ourselves, is this a sustainable if it's catering for 10% of Kenyans? Of course it's not because we need a project that is first of all people oriented and at the same time, cater for most of the citizens. Another thing is that there is the 27 years that we have to pay the 62 billion, she leans for the Nairobi Expressway, and ways in which the government is going to be able to get this money is through the toll system. So we're going to be paying 600 one way. If you're using a small car and if you're using a larger car, then you're going to income maybe more cost other than 600 shelling. So the idea is that through this toll fee system, then you're going to recover the money during this 27 years. But the situation, or I'm looking at it from a hypothetical situation, what if we are not able to recover the money? What will happen to us as youth? Are we going to have increased taxes for us to be able to do that? What are we going to be able to do? So as to ensure that we recover the amount. So can we equate to us, the youth, to see ways in which we can be able to question the government, see if this is feasible? Is it sustainable? If it's not, let us raise our voice and say no to it. So you guys are actually requesting and the fact that access for clarity, access of information on how we tend to just implement this particular project. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And that has always been an issue because even the first time when they said they were going to hive off 1.3 acres of the Horupak, we would ask them, okay, can you kindly share with us the design so that you can be able to see this? The next thing we had was that the Horupak was not going to be hiked off and they were redesigned. But then the sharing with the public of the redesigns has been an issue. So we are not able to say for sure, is this expressway going to encroach in green spaces or not? So we are not fully able to see that because again, we've not been able to get the information as we showed. All right, so let's talk about the reimagining of green spaces by Citizen Project. So on your Facebook page that you're actually calling out on Kenyans to come up with, you know, just reimagining the spaces that you want to see, the green spaces that is, if it sparks, just a place where you can relax and enjoy those particular amazing green spaces. So tell us about this project and what happened, did you get any form of Kenyans who wrote in and told you, you know, this is a particular, you know, bring out their designs that they desire to see in their own country when it comes to green spaces? So the project on reimagining our parks definitely is currently still ongoing and we did get a lot of response, especially from the citizens and just to give you a small insight on what it's about, basically, we want to see ways in which we can be able to re-imagine and revitalize our parks. And we used Uhuru Park as one of our example because, you know, Uhuru Park has been there for 50 years, 50 plus years. So how can we be able to revitalize the park, especially the Freedom Corner? Because if you remember, Hungary Mathai was there when she was fighting for the Uhuru Park itself. So the Freedom Corner is very key, especially in matters advocacy and in protecting the park. So how can we be able to revitalize the place? You know, can we come up with drawings on benches? Can we have, you know, different drawings on how it could look beautiful? So those are some of the ideas that you were throwing out to the public and they could come up, you know, with their own imagination and what their parks look like. And also something that is important also about their imagining our parks is that we want to ensure that at least in most of our hoods, we're able to have a park. At least a park in our hood. So we're encouraging the public to look at any sort of green space or open space that they can be able to rehabilitate and turn it into a green space that their hood can be able to enjoy. So it's a very inclusive and engaging activity and we are currently going on with it. It will definitely go on for a very long time. All right. And just listening to you and how passionate about you, about these project fillers, it's amazing that you guys have been operating for approximately one year now. All right, so for person who's watching this conversation and they're wondering, who is eligible to be part of the Daima Coalition? So the Daima Coalition is open to the public. It is open to the public. We are a consortium of different environmental organizations, conservation organizations, as well as just environmental enthusiasts like me and you, you know. So if you would like to join us, definitely we do have a space for you. You can reach out to us with your ideas and definitely we will see how we can be able to carry it into fruition. And has the Daima Coalition stretched to other counties or are you guys just based within Nairobi? Currently, most of our activities are in Nairobi. However, we do want to continue stretching to the different parts of the country. All right, so I read your biography and you emphasize on how we can actually make our green spaces as a tourist attraction. How possible is that? I think it's very possible. I think it's very possible because we have a lot of green spaces in our country. But one of the issues that we have is one, there's the disregard of green spaces. You'll find like, no more people don't even, not no more people, but the public doesn't know what a green space is. And in most times, when the public doesn't know what a green space is, then they don't get to appreciate and understand the importance of a green space. So green spaces are definitely important. And if we do ensure that we conserve them, then definitely they're going to serve as a tourist attraction. Maybe I can use Carrora Forest as an example. You know the way Wangari Mathai fought for the Carrora Forest to what it is right now. So it is through community engagement that we're able to have tourists and they can be able to have millions of millions in just a month out of the income from the park itself. So you see, there's a lot of potential. And a lot of that you just went on a broader space because most of the time we talk about green spaces, we look at the parks, you know? And then we have our forests. A lot of creative forests, you know? And it's some, it's the longest. It's beautiful. It's the largest forest when it comes to ziplining, the longest ziplining in Eastern Africa, which has six lines. So we have a lot that, you know, we can offer to a tourist attraction. So let's look at ways we can change the narrative and perception when it comes to the safety of our green spaces. I tend to believe that the majority of Kenyans shy away from parks, especially when these particular parks, they're not, you don't pay for like an entrance fee. There's always an issue of security because it's accessible to everyone. So how can we change the perception and narrative and how can you come up with ways that we can actually offer security to Kenyans in these spaces? Okay. With regards to green spaces, I would like to use Karorazan example. Before Karorazan, before the Friends of Karorazan, Community Forest Association was formed, there were a lot of back and forth with regards to private developers wanting to get into Karorazan, seeing ways in which they can cut the trees and have their own development. However, once the Community Forest Association was formed, you could see the various changes that came into place. One, there was the collaboration with the Kenya Forest Service and other government agencies. And the collaboration between the two actually helped with regards to security because they could, one, work on putting up a fence, which can also be key in ensuring the security of the area. And two, there was no push and pull between the KFS and the Community Forest Association. So one, it is very key for you to have good relations with the relevant government agencies. And another thing that I borrowed from the Karorazan Forest experience is that if you look at the neighboring communities, the communities neighboring the Karorazan Forest, we have one, which is the Huruma Village, which is also an informal settlement that is around the area. So what the Community Forest Association did, they involved the communities around the forest. And once we involve the communities around the forest, then they are able to own the project, they're able to own the park or the green space itself. And in the end, they're going to protect it. So you need to involve the people who are around for them to be able to take it up, protect it and ensure that there's security because once the people take it up, then for sure no one is going to come and harm the place. So definitely engagement with the public is very important to ensure the security. All right. I'd like to find a couple of projects that you've engaged in, in that span of one year that you look back and you're very much impressed and happy to be part of Daima Coalition. Okay, the first ever Daima Uhuru Park activity last year, November 3rd was a very huge activity because that is where we had our stand and said, we need to have regard for the environment if you're talking about development, that is the expressway. And another milestone that we just had, which is on October 31st, we had the source of our trees event. And the source of our trees event basically was to protect the 100-year iconic fig tree that is in Westlands from being fell as a result of the expressway. So that was a very huge milestone because a week after our walk, we had a presidential decree by the NMS, the general body saying that the tree has been unmarked for felling and there'll be benches around the tree for Wananchi to sit down. And that was more than a win because we can see that environment has been, has not been compromised as a result of development. So that was one of the biggest wins, I will say. And also just to see the power of the youth because if you look at the project itself, it was 100% spearheaded by the youth. And seeing the results as well, I think it gives a lot of power to the youth that we actually have this power and this voice. Yes, and I'm very much curious on ways you mobilize and actually engage the youth to be part of the Emo Collegium because it's not something easy to, especially for the youth of nowadays. So just how do you mobilize and engage the youth to just persuade them to be part of this particular organization? The first thing, of course, we do reach out to the environmental enthusiasts, nature lovers, of course, those are some of the small niche that we need to fully empower because these are going to be our voices in terms of environmentalism. However, we also reach out to the general public because when you talk about environmental matters, they're not just for a particular group. Environmental protection or environmental conservation is something to be enjoyed by everyone. Absolutely. So the moment you let the public and the youth, just the general youth know that if you do not stand up, then it's going to affect you in this way, in this way, then people come to understand, okay, this is not just an environmentalist campaign, but it's a campaign for all of us. So yeah, just letting them know how important it is and how it's going to affect them in one way or another definitely does, you know, right level. All right. So like, apart from just pushing for accountability, to access information also from the government when it comes to protecting our green spaces, what are some of the steps that are actually a movement that you're partaking onto to ensure that our green spaces are actually being protected as an organization. So one of the things that we're doing, definitely advocacy and raising our voices, I think that is very much. Very, very important actually, yeah. And also just letting the public know the importance of green spaces. What are green spaces? What do they constitute? What kind of green spaces do we have? And one thing that IMA has is currently working on is documenting all of these green spaces, because we have green spaces in Kenya that are not documented as well. So how can you be able to document them and you can have a database whereby if you want to look at green spaces in Kenya, then you can be able to log onto there and you can see all the different green spaces in Kenya. So that is something that is very important and that's a niche that hadn't been done yet. So that's something that we're also working on. And you also want to work closely with the government to see ways in which we can be able to protect our trees, especially in matters development, because as you've seen with the Expressway, especially like from James Kishore, there are over 5,000 trees that have been just along that route. So how can we be able to account for these trees? Because you can tell us, they're going to cut trees in Waiakewe and plant them at the Nairobi National Park. It's impossible. No, it doesn't work. So we need to have a method or we need to come up with a certain document that you can be able to go off off to say that if you've cut trees here, then this and this are the ways in which you can be able to ensure that we reinstate the area. Come on an equal ground. Eh, caribou. Yeah, caribou. So what are the roles of the citizens when it comes to safeguarding and enhancing our green spaces? Our role and our key role is raising our voice because we as the public have a lot of power and we have a lot of strength. But sometimes I feel like we usually feel like we don't know what to do, especially in such kind of, you know, a situation of such magnitude. You know, you want to talk about the Expressway, but you're like, you know, if I rant over social media, what will I do? You know, no one will be able to hear me. You know, there's always that feeling that there's not much that you can do. But I really, I would like to let you guys know that there's a lot that you can do just by raising your voice, just by coming up with ideas and reaching out to us as a dame of green spaces. And not just us, we have other organizations that are doing amazing things to protect the green spaces. So as the public, we have the responsibility to raise our voices. We have the responsibility to come up with ideas, to ensure that we increase the number of green spaces that we have. And we also have a responsibility to ensure to keep the government accountable, especially in matters sustainable development, to ensure that in the event that there's disregard for the environment, then the public is able to stand up and say, this should not be done and we need our trees to survive. Okay, and how are you guys raising funds when it comes to running the organization? We fundraise, we normally do fundraise. Let's say if we do have an activity, we reach out to different donors who would like to help in one way or another. And we can say so far, we've been able to conduct our activities the way we've been hoping. And we definitely want to reach out to more people who would like to help us in one way or another so that we can be able to speak out for generations to come. Because that's what we're doing. When we're increasing our parks, basically we're taking care of the generations to come. Very true actually. And for someone who's watching this conversation on an aspect or from an angle of being an investor or someone who would like to just you know, be part of helping in terms of financially or any other way around it because it's not always about the money, right? So how can they help out? You can reach out to us at Daima Green Spaces because just reach out to us at Daima Green Spaces we will definitely help you. You guys will take it up from there. So tell us more about the anniversary of Hands Off who will be taking place on 21st of November. Yeah, so we're really excited. Take us through that and the activities that we'll actually be going down on that particular day. Yeah, so on 21st of November we're going to have our anniversary Hands Off Uhuru Park that is the one that I said on November 3rd last year. So we're going to have our anniversary on 21st of November and we're going to have it at the Freedom Corner Uhuru Park. And basically some of the activities that we're looking to, you know, talk about what we're going to talk about the history of the Uhuru Park. I came to realize there not so many people who even understand the history of the park, how it's shrunk when it started in 1969. So those are some of the things that we will be going through. We're also going to look at the life and works of Wangari Mathai because you can't talk about Uhuru Park without Wangari Mathai. What's your favorite quote by Wangari Mathai, by the way? My favorite quote has to be, if you do not raise your voice, then your environmentalism means nothing. Yeah, that is my key one. So that every time I don't raise my voice then I know I've done nothing. So yeah. So all a couple of activities that we'll be going down apart from just taking us through the history of how Uhuru Park came by. Yeah, some of the activities, definitely we'll have a family-funded activity. We're going to have music. And yeah, on top of that, we're going to do some activities on our reimagining the park. I had already mentioned that. So that will also be an interesting day to see how we can be able to put it into action, see how we can be able to revitalize the area, especially the Fidong Corner. Oh, that's amazing. So everyone is invited? Yeah, everyone is invited. It's a free park. There's no entry fee. It's a beautiful park. You're all invited to the Fidong Corner on 21st November. Okay. So what is the future of green spaces looking like? Especially in Kenya. In Kenya, I think the future is looking bright. The future is looking bright because the topic of green spaces is currently being very prevalent. And I'm happy to see that young people are actually taking it up and seeing the need of green spaces, especially now with the current COVID restrictions. You know, people didn't have a lot of access to parks. And I think this year especially has been a turning point because people have come to see the necessity of having green spaces and the necessity of having parks. And also the fact that the government is also welcoming such ideas, ideas on protecting green spaces, ideas on seeing how we can increase. The same is also very amazing. So seeing ways in which we can be able to bring the two together and increase the green spaces, definitely I see our future being more than bright if we continue with the same momentum that we have. And what about the IMO collision? Oh, future is more than bright. And that's because we are not going to stop until we increase our green spaces, until our green spaces are protected, until they are revitalized. So definitely we will be there for very long time. For very long time. All right, so how can guys reach out to you if they want to have, just remind us your social media handles. You mentioned them, right? So how can guys reach out to those particular social media handles? Kindly remind us. And so that people back at home can easily follow up. So you can reach out to us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Dayima Green Spaces. So come up with your ideas, DM us, and we'll reach out to you and we'll actualize them. All right, so guys back at home, that was fearless. She is an environmentalist and a lawyer by profession working with the organization Dayima Colleges. So guys, if you want to reach out to Dayima Colleges, head on towards their social media handles that is at Dayima Colleges and you can get further information from their website, social media handles. Dayima Green Spaces. Dayima Green Spaces on social media. Great, so as simple as that, you get more information on how you can be part of this amazing project and you're invited for the event on 21st. November. November. This, I feel this much. It's Saturday. It's Saturday. So pictures are there, you know. These pictures are part of... That's what the freedom corner is. Freedom corner is that. So, preparation. Preparation? No, this is... You know when you talk about revitalization of the park, you want to see ways in which you can enhance it. So this can be through benches, through different sitting arrangements, see ways in which you can just expand our functions there. So basically... Making the spaces very beautiful. Exactly, with more activities. So, there it is. For me, Saturday, November 21st. The status, you know. So guys, head on to Uhuru Park. An event of... The name of the event is Hands of Uhuru Park. So be part of that particular event and it's free of charge. There you have it. So make sure you stay tuned. We have more on Why in the Morning at Y244Channel so you can find us across all social media handles at Michelle Lashira. Make sure you don't touch that dial.