 hd to send down the heavenly wisdom from above to direct and guide us in all our consultations and ground that we having died fear always before our eyes and laying aside all private interests, and partial affections, the result of all our counsels may be to the glory of thy blessed name, the maintenance of true religion and justice, the safety, honour and happiness of the king, the public will, peace and tranquility of Saint Lucia and uniting and knitting together of the hearts of all persons and estates within the same in true Christian love and charity one towards another through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen. the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Ghost be with us all evermore, Amen. Please administer oath to the new senator. Felician Shelton Daniel do solemnly affirm that I will be faithful to be true allegiance to Saint Lucia that I will uphold and defend the constitution and the laws of Saint Lucia and I will conscientiously and impartially discharge my responsibilities to the people of Saint Lucia. Come Senator Daniel, announcements. Good morning again Senators. I have received correspondence from the speaker of the House of Assembly advising that the following motions and bills were passed in the House of Assembly and forwarded to the Senate for its concurrence. Public Finance Management Act Resolution of Parliament to authorize the Minister of Finance to guarantee borrowing by St Jude Hospital. Public Finance Management Act Resolution of Parliament to authorize the Minister of Finance to guarantee borrowing by the Millennium Heights Medical Complex. Public Finance Management Act Resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital or current expenditure building public health resilience coronavirus disease 2019 response project. Suppression of escalated crime police powers. Constitution of Saint Lucia Amendment Number 2. Credit reporting. Registration of supervised entities. Anti-terrorism amendment. Companies amendments. I've also received excuses from Senator Lisa Joahir and the Parliamentary Secretary in the Ministry of Education. Sustainable development, innovation, science and technology and vocational training who are out of state and so unable to attend today's sitting. Senators, before you or maybe a little later are copies of a Commonwealth message from Buckingham Palace and Commonwealth affirmation that's in observation over Commonwealth month. I wish to inform you Senators that I participated in the Taiwan Gender Equality Week 2023 in New York from the 7th to the 9th of March. The agenda included a Taiwan night which celebrated women in technology and it featured a fashion show and I also participated in a panel discussion about promoting gender equality in the digital age. Statements from Ministers, Parliamentary Secretary. Papers to be laid. Honourable Parliamentary Secretary in the Ministry of Tourism, Investment, Creative Industries, Culture and Innovation and Leader of Government Business. Thank you Madam President. Before I do Madam President I beg you to congratulate our temporary senator Senator Daniel for joining us this morning and I look forward to his contribution. I also wish to ask that we keep in our prayers our colleague cabinet member Honourable Joachim Henry who is recovering from illness. Madam President I beg to leave the following papers standing in my name. Statutary instrument number 22 of 2023. Tourism stimulus and investment with Gemma Landing Company Limited Order. Statutary instrument number 23 of 2023. Public Finance Management Act Resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital or current expenditure building capacity and resilience in the health sector to respond to the coronavirus. Statutary instrument number 24 of 2023. Tourism incentives. Statutary instrument number 25 of 2023. Price control amendment number 4 order. Statutary instrument number 26 of 2023. Excise tax amendment of schedule 1 number 4 order. Citizens by investment annual report number 2021 2022. Export St. Lucia annual report April 2020 to March 2021. Statutary instrument number 21 of 2023. Accreditation Act commencement order. Bills. Leader of government business. Madam President as should have been motions. I would like to at this point house or the senate sorry to suspend standing order 12. In order to change the order of the order paper of business in the stated therein and to allow the debate of the suppression of escalation of crime police powers bill to take place to proceed take precedence over the motions. Senators the question is that standing order number 12 be suspended in order to change the order of business as stated therein and to allow the debate on the suppression of escalated crime police powers bill to take precedence over motions. I now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye. As many as of contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. Leave is granted please proceed leader of government business. Madam President I beg to present for first reading a bill shortly entitled suppression of escalated crime police powers. Suppression of escalated crime police powers. Leader of government business. Madam President I beg to move for the suspension of escalated crime police powers bill to take precedence over motions. Senators the question is that standing order number 49 to be suspended in order to allow the honorable leader of government business to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting. I now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye. As many as of contrary opinion say no. I think the eyes have it. Leave is granted please proceed leader of government business. Thank you Madam President. Madam President I move for the beg to present for second reading a bill shortly entitled suppression of escalated crime police powers. Madam President this morning today is a day where as a country we are faced with an extraordinary serious very unique situation which requires extraordinary unprecedented and serious intervention. Madam President this bill as it is presented this morning is intended to allow this government and particularly the police to be able to address the situation that we are now faced with. A situation that we will all agree has caused quite a lot of anxiety, pain and concern for want of a better word to all facets of this country albeit it is concentrated in a particular area at this time but I think all of us as a nation can in some way relate to the issues, the concerns and the consequences if something is not done now and I mean right now. Madam President the situation I am referring to is a sudden escalation in violent crime particularly gun violence in the community of year 4 not necessarily started only in year 4 but has been elevated and escalated in recent days of the past week. Madam President this situation has threatened the safety and comfort of residents. Sports meets have had to be cancelled it has disrupted business activity it has disrupted the operations and the comfort of people who have to provide us with our health services at the hospital St. Jude Hospital. I am overwhelmed particularly the hospital with the cases the casualties that come in as a result of these incidents and so Madam President the situation is real the circumstances are exceptional and therefore consequently it calls for urgent decisive and firm action. It calls for responsible action and so we decided as a government that to ensure that the actions that will be taken are lawful and to ensure that procedures are followed in accordance with the law we have come to this house and the senate to pass this piece of legislation. Madam President this piece of legislation will take effect for a particular period of time and it will give the police police officers who are human beings specific powers that will allow them to conduct certain procedures and activities to help arrest no pun intended the situation as it is in view of. Madam President I want to say good morning we have a situation in the country that has made a difference in the world and in the different organizations in the society and it is worth it the world has been facing a situation where the police officers of the school have come to the hospital to do the operations and the government that is necessary to come to the parliament to pass the law that will provide the police with the ability to do certain things and the government will not be able to solve any problems and so Madam President in addition to this piece of legislation that we are asking to be passed today the government has embarked on a number of other initiatives to try to cope the problem not only in view of but the problem of crime and violent crime in the country is involved and is being engaged on the ground as is mentioned by the Prime Minister and we have to thank them for their prompt response all of the governments of the region were very prompt and willing to provide their support Madam President the French authorities have also responded and to them we also say thank you we also have to be mindful at the fire services the emergency services who are also under pressure we tend to think of the police in those situations but we must remember also that every time there is a casualty there is a report of a shooting or somebody is injured that emergency personnel are also in the line of fire because sometimes they get to the site even before the police and so they too have had to be and been under pressure to respond to these situations Madam President in addition we have to recognize that these interventions are basically short too what this bill seeks to do is to arrest the situation as it is right now this bill on its own Madam President is in no way going to be the panacea or the total solution for crime and deviant behavior as I mentioned there are a number of other initiatives that the government is undertaking but this bill requires or will provide the platform for the immediate and short term intervention that is needed Madam President just by way of example the other measures that the government is engaging in include improving or providing additional resources for the police and we heard mention of 150 bulletproof vests that have been given we have also heard that the training vote that was not funded at all zero funding for has now received financial support to the extent or to the tune of 300,000 dollars to increase our human capacity our manpower on the ground we have also no heard or we have also been told by the Minister for Health that work has commenced on a number of our primary healthcare facilities which only serve to help relieve our main hospitals from the stresses that can free them up to address and attend to emergencies so Madam President the grocery or northern the poly clinic the respiratory hospital a number of the other health service providers are getting an upgrade Madam President in addition we have interventions and improvements that have been undertaken in some of our police stations including the northern divisional headquarters in Grozely the view for police station that was somehow allowed to deteriorate to the extent that the police officers had to move to another temporary residence where it has been rented they need that space to operate how much it would have helped right now Madam President we will never know we also know that the other police stations and facilities that operate in other parts of the country once they are operational and well kept will relieve the central and the bigger stations or the bigger units that can give them some space to breathe pretty much like the way the health system works Madam President one other area that I think we must keep in mind as we discuss this bill and I believe that it is something we need to look ahead to do coming out of a background of education and dealing with the ripple effects of social issues in schools there is always going to be the psychological impact of these events on the minds of innocent persons particularly young persons children and we look also forward we also look forward to ensuring that the young persons elderly persons and other individuals who may not have been involved but are impacted by the gun violence and the other incidents will have to be considered for counseling and professional intervention because of the trauma that they may have experienced during that time and so Madam President I think that kind of trauma that kind of experience we may think that it may be limited to VIA4 but I can tell you some of us who don't live in VIA4 can also relate to what happens when these kinds of incidents take place I suspect Madam President even yourself would have had at least one relative who was a victim and I am sure you may still be experiencing some kind of emotional distress when these things happen in this very senate as well Madam President one of my colleague senators I am not even sure if she is I am going to muster the courage to be able to speak on this bill this morning because one of the shootings occurred in her workplace and I had to I was very moved because we have some serious connection when I saw her being interviewed on TV and having to explain and describe what happened Madam President these are very serious issues that impact on our lives and if people like us who are adults who are grown who have some measure of understanding and how we can cope are affected to that extent can you imagine what can happen to a 10 year old or 12 year old or 4 year old child who is living in the middle of one of those little spaces within the town and whose parent or friend or neighbor has had to go through this Madam President I say all of this to establish a basis for the urgency the importance and the need for us to move decisively and immediately to get this piece of legislation passed so that the police can be given the necessary powers to deal with the situation as is Madam President the bill provides quite a bit of detail and it was circulated I think that for the purpose of this conversation the bill makes provisions for a number of interventions and when it was first circulated there were some issues that were raised by various individuals and stakeholders and that resulted in some changes that led to some amendments that were made in the lower house when the bill was presented and that we thank those who had made the interventions to make those amendments and we look forward to getting that piece of legislation passed today so that the police can be given the necessary powers to be able to conduct the operations necessary once that is done Madam President the long term medium and long term strategies that will support that action to maintain a level of order confidence and peace in these communities will follow and so Madam President I know my colleagues will elaborate I want to present this piece of legislation the suppression of escalated crime police powers bill for consideration by this senate to be passed to achieve the bill that it was intended to achieve I thank you Madam President Senators the question is that the suppression of escalated crime police powers bill be read a second time we don't have government business thank you Madam President I sat and waited I want to see that as the revolver well I sat and waited look right I was just having a discussion with the independent but then you wanted me to go or not Senator I thought because put off your mic please the statement was read and presiding officer waited looked around there were no lights on the leader of government business light came on and I called him I will now have to ask the leader of government business whether he is ready to yield if he is not he has to continue so question is whether the leader of government business wishes to you Madam President please rise with a bit of clarity on many instances I have looked at the leader of government business format and what would happen he would read opening statements and then he would go on to explain in greater detail there are many times I put on my mic a bit too early so I thought that you were going on to do an extra explanation on the bill like you normally do so I didn't realize that you were that so thank you Madam President this morning I will be a little unconventional I stood read the bill provided a detailed explanation that went on for more than 10 minutes and then I took my seat my colleagues applauded that is very well understood I took my seat and I waited I waited and there was no other person so I sought your permission at this point I will not use Madam President proceed so Madam President having offered this explanation I wish to ask for the support of this chamber to allow this bill to go through and to be enacted for the purpose that it was intended for I thank you Madam President Senators the question is that the suppression of escalated crime police powers bill the second time I now put the question as many as of that opinion say I as many as of a contrary opinion say no I think the eyes have it the eyes have it officers with additional powers for the suppression of escalated crime and for related matters clause 2 interpretation clause 2 stands part of the bill clause 3 application of this act clause 3 stands part of the bill clause 4 oppose clause 4 stands part of the bill Madam President if we can yes please in clause 2 following amendment was proposed in the chamber and I need to inform the senate of these amendments the removal of chairperson means that the chairperson of the tribunal on the section 22 that's what it means and also in clause 2 e page 7 we should delete the words or c and replace with c and a just to make sure it's correct it should be c or a yes c or a so that means it's inclusive of all 3 also in part 1 designation of escalated crime area clause 5, 9, 1 has page 7 still senators yes we are still on page 7 we came out of that so it's on the purpose clause 3 application of this act clause 3 stands part of the bill clause 4 purpose so Madam President we now look at in clause 5 designation of the criminal escalated criminal area after the comma we should insert or add the words after consultation with the commissioner of police we are there senators the minister me after consultation with police my order publishing the gazette etc we are there we may proceed part 1 part 1 clauses 5 to 6 designation of an escalated crime area part 1 clauses 5 to 6 that is part of the bill part 2 clauses 7 to 14 Madam President police powers for suppression of escalated crime Madam President in part 8 we look at clause 7 under police powers for suppression of escalated crime the first line we should replace the word within with the word entering so it should read a person with whether within or entering outside so it means a person it would now read a person within or inside outside entering an escalated crime area shall stop shall stop if required to stop by a police officer okay senators we all have this a person whether within or entering an escalated crime area shall stop we are on senators that's it for you also clause 8 part 1 b the first line we should add the words or regulates after the word prohibit or regulate the use well regulate the use yeah after prohibit okay so b1 prohibit after prohibit the words are included regulate the use that's okay clause 8 page 9 madam president for b1 in the first line the word design should be added after the word object so we should insert that word could you read the entire sentence please senator 9 b1 okay so i'll just make sure i stick to my note so i get it right madam president again it now reads under b1 removes any sign instrument light or other object and you remove two and replace with design two inform another person of the prohibition or cordoned area so it will not be cordoned but cordoned with an ed cordoned area what clarification is it design or designed designed designed to consistent with cordoned okay just b sb okay page 9 it's a for a and it's b yes okay number one part two still in the clause page 10 um bear with me madam president we need to take our time about this one clause 10 2 yep the last line in clause 10 2 replace the words for a period as he or she thinks fit if you look at the last line there replace that with a slightly longer statement and it reads as follows for a reasonable period that allows him or her to exercise his or her functions and therefore if I can read the entire statement in accessing land or a building on the subsection 1 a police officer may enter into and remain in occupation of the land or building yeah so I can continue let me just start again I think read it over so everybody gets it so it should read on the page 10 10 2 in accessing land or building on the subsection 1 a police officer may enter into and remain in occupation of the land or building and instead of for a period there it should read for a reasonable period that follows him that allows him or her to exercise his or her functions part 3 clauses 15 to 19 madam cla can you read it yes but 3 clauses 15 to 19 offences for the suppression of escalated crime and detention but 3 clauses 15 to 19 since part of the bill aye madam the sum madam did we did we accept did we accept 8 to 10 to 10 to did we accept that part 2 was part of the bill because we did the amendments but I don't think we she didn't accept go back to part 2 okay part 2 clauses 7 to 14 stands part of the bill aye part 3 clauses 15 to 19 offences for the suppression of escalated crime and detention part 3 clauses 15 to 19 stands part of the bill aye madam the amendment there's an amendment in 19 and it's as follows 19 to we go to 19 to I'll just read it as was a person detained on the subsection 1 shall be detained in such place on the side of the escalated crime area and for a period not exceeding it's at 72 hours as authorized by the commissioner of police the proposal is the third line to replace 72 hours with 144 hours okay madam president may I suggest that we remain of the original wording of 72 hours the reason for that is that the constitution is expressed with regard to your ability to detain persons and it limits it to 72 hours unless you go to the courts to get an extension I believe as drafted originally it recognized that because it makes provision for an expatriate application to be made to extend the detention by going to 144 hours we risk falling afoul of the constitution madam president I just need to respond to that that particular situation can also create an issue where a third party, a judge or someone else other than the police can intervene and in that particular case if a suspect is apprehended say on a Thursday the 72 hours that have elapsed on a Sunday getting a judge or being able to access that particular third party may pose another problem which may force the authorities to have to release that person and if we have to think of the situation as is in Buford you would not want to be faced with that particular dilemma and this is why we thought it was better to allow yes we know it's not the best situation but to allow for that particular amendment to be made for that particular circumstance so I would hope that we can for that particular case agree to insert the 144 hours rather than leave it to a third party that could inconvenience everybody depending on the day that the person is arrested say on a Thursday I have to respond madam president because I recognize always but madam president I mean to be honest this is what currently applies there are ways and means of achieving the ends and securing the person for an extended period other than the 72 hours because this is the currently and defense attorneys face this all the time it's very common that persons are picked up on a Friday held over the weekend no access until Monday I'm not saying that's what we should be doing but the fact is we do operate already in a circumstance and there are ways and means of ensuring that a judge is available to get the extension if necessary I'm just giving the caution madam president and the House sorry the chamber will decide how they proceed yes the chamber will decide and so yes madam president I think that issue has been raised it was raised by an attorney who was part of the discussion we took that into consideration but due to the situation as it is if that happens then we're going to create a little bit of opening for a lot of things to go on but I think the honourable members position is well noted and I would wish to to say even with that in mind that we proceed respectfully we proceed question at three at four clauses so that we now can now move to under nineteen nineteen three if we look at the third line it has to delete the words of the following in the third line and in the fourth line we delete the words being conditions issued in written directions so that person and replace that with including the following so page 14 page 4 senators it starts with a judge may on the third line delete subject to any of the following these six words will be deleted and it continues as the judge things fit removing the rest the remaining being conditions issued in written directions to that person and is replaced by including the following on the same page senators nineteen four when I read three but the actual clause page 14 section 19 four ok are we on the same page page 15 page 15 page 3 page 4 పోట్గరెకనికీడాధాసందిని. ఆటరండిక్టక఑ందికీచారిందినిఔట్కడికితెప్గెకికి. పోమకీగికిటికయికరెటికు. నిఛటోలెయామ్. ఆనంత౏నోట్రతేనిపి. నినోటేనోతెనిరారంనేమేనోట్స్. strony�స్యేటెనింతుని. నోట్కొంనిదానోట్. నోట్లెరంన్. పినోట్టస్లడి. � మాిఫరికిస公 ఋిినేతిసాపిసికిందరందానికనినవిందిందరినిందికిందరందిందిని.   life in отв k Bu ko As many of that opinion say I, as many as of the contrary opinion say no, I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. Senators, I beg to report that the suppression of escalated crime police powers bill went through committee without amendments. The amendments were made in the lower house. Here we did not make any amendments so we cannot claim that we made amendments. Leader of government business. Madam President, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and that the bill be read a third time and passed. Senators, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the suppression of escalated crime police powers bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the question, as many as of that opinion say I, as many as of the contrary opinion say no, I think the eyes have it, the eyes have it. Be it enacted by the king's most excellent majesty by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St. Lucia and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the suppression of escalated crime police powers act 2023. Motions, Honourable Parliamentary Secretary in the Ministry of Tourism, Investment, Creative Industries, Culture and Information and Leader of Government Business. Madam President, just making sure that I have everything in the right order here. Stick your time, Senator. Motion, motion one. Verify with me before I read the motion. Central Hospital. In my name, now that I have the correct one. Whereas it is provided under section 65.1, the Public Finance Management Act 1501, the act that the Minister of Finance may by affirmative resolution of the Parliament grant a guarantee in accordance with an enactment. Whereas it is further provided under section 69.2 of the act that the guarantee issued by the government or a contingent liability created by the government in accordance with the regulations under the act and in accordance with another enactment shall be charged and paid out of the Consolidated Fund. Whereas it is provided under section 20a.1 of the St. Jude Hospital Act 1120, that the Minister of Finance may with the approval of the Parliament guarantee in the manner and on condition as he or she thinks fit the payment of the principle and interest of unauthorised borrowing by the hospital. Whereas it is further provided under section 20a.2 of the St. Jude Hospital Act 1120, that where the Minister of Finance is satisfied that there has been default in the payment of principle money or interest guaranteed, he or she shall direct the repayment out of the Consolidated Fund for the amount in respect of which there has been a default. Whereas the Minister of Finance considers it necessary to guarantee an overdraft facility in the amount of EC 3,500,000 from the Republic Bank Eastern Caribbean Limited, the bank to the St. Jude Hospital for the purpose of assisting with working capital requirements. Whereas the payment of the advances are on demand and whereas the interest is payable monthly at the bank's base lending rate from time to time less than 4% per annum with the present effective rate of 6% per annum. And whereas a commitment fee of $5,000 is payable on acceptance of the commitment letter, be it resolved that Parliament authorises the Minister of Finance to guarantee an overdraft facility in the amount of EC 3,500,000 from the Republic Bank Eastern Caribbean Limited to the St. Jude Hospital for the purpose of assisting with working capital requirements. Be it further resolved, a. that repayment of the advances are on demand, b. the interest is payable monthly at the bank's base lending rate from time to time less than 4% per annum with the present effective rate of 6% per annum, c. a commitment fee of $5,000 is payable on acceptance of the commitment letter. Be this further resolved, a. the interest is payable monthly at the bank's base lending rate from time to time less than 4% per annum, c. a commitment fee of $5,000 is payable monthly at the bank's base lending rate from time to time less than 4% per annum. how much pressure they are under and it is very important that we highlight the need for us to ensure that while we continue to grapple with the after effects of COVID and all the other issues that we face in the health sector that we continue to lend support and give these institutions the tools to operate. Madam President, it may appear that for some of us the effects perhaps psychological or otherwise of COVID psychological effects of other issues that land people in hospitals and the financial and other implications may not be very apparent to most of us but it is very clear that these somehow or sometimes amount to cost that is not on the forefront and is not always been discussed but in our recovery efforts Madam President we know that it's necessary to continue to provide finance and support for the various expenses and challenges that come with our health sector. Madam President, there are goods and services that we need that we continue to have to procure. You might, you will notice that we have another motion a little later Madam President that also is related to Mr. Deputy, my apologies. Mr. Deputy, you will notice that we have another motion that is also going to be related to health and health resilience. That one is particular to the millennium heights but it is important that we acknowledge the need to strengthen particularly our primary healthcare facilities. These days the grants are not coming as we would like to and so sometimes we have to find ways to finance our own health issues. We have also had conversation about universal health care which apparently was on the back burner for a while. We have to bring this back because we still have persons who are not able to afford basic health privileges, basic health care. There is also the misguided perception Madam President or Mr. Deputy that COVID is no more. People just move around and there is a sense of comfort that I think we should not get comfortable with because COVID is still with us. There is new variants and we have to be prepared in the event that there is some kind of outbreak. The external factors are still there. We do not control everything that happens even within our own region much less the external or the international region or international world. We have a tourism industry where we still have arrivals. People are still coming into the country. I know we have done a lot in terms of improving the screening and people are getting their vaccines and so on but the threat of COVID is still around and so we cannot relax and just concentrate on only a few things and leave our health sector unattended. Madam President, medical equipment needs to be provided. We also have non-communicable diseases still with us, diabetes, hypertension and if you have family members who suffer with these conditions you will be very much aware Mr. Vice President of the kinds of expenses that are incurred having to get insulin and we have to make those available to people either free or in some way that it can be accessed easily. We know the issues that we face with in terms of the equipment that is available in our various health care facilities and some of this will be used to purchase some of this equipment. I can provide a whole lot of examples Madam President but I want to make a basic point here perhaps and listen to my colleagues and then perhaps respond that this facility basically allows for us to be able to beef up and improve the services that we provide in our primary health care. The vaccine issues are still with us. We have an issue with persons who are still vaccine resistant. They still have this conspiracy theory, it's still there. Especially now that we don't have as many deaths and so on with COVID. People figure well you know what we're okay and so why get vaccinated now and so we have to continue to push the message, we have to continue to invest in pushing the message we should still encourage our citizenry to get vaccinated. And of course at some other point I will get to the vaccine too where we still have to continue to procure those and make sure that we have results in event we need more because we know that the last time we heard about procuring the vaccines didn't get it but I'll leave that one for another time because I'm sure there's enough that my colleagues may want to go to discuss in that regard. But Mr. Deputy, I wanted to provide this brief sort of background rationale for this particular motion to make sure that we have we have it clear in our minds that this is really to almost a proactive step in ensuring that we provide and boost our health care system. As we continue to recover from the effects particularly of COVID so I put this to the House, the Senate for its consideration. I thank you Madam President. Senators, the question is that the Parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to guarantee an overdraft facility in the amount of EC $3.5 million from the Republic Bank Eastern Caribbean Limited to the St. Jude Hospital for the purpose of assisting with working capital requirements. Be it for the result that repayment advances are on demand. The interest is payable monthly at the bank's base lending rate from time to time less 4% per annum with a present effective rate of 6% per annum. A commitment fee of $5,000 is payable on acceptance of the commitment letter. Senator Stannis? Mr. Deputy President. Mr. Deputy President, I rise to make my contribution to the motion as presented by the leader of government business to guarantee borrowing of $3.5 million to the St. Jude Hospital. Mr. Deputy President, the opposition understands the physical and operational constraints at the George Odlam Stadium which houses the St. Jude Hospital. It's been almost 14 years Mr. Deputy President since the dreadful fire destroyed St. Jude's and the hospital had to be relocated to the stadium. And therefore we are all aware of the conditions and the situation over there. We hear of the problems from the staff Mr. Deputy President, patients and the general public. The problems, the issues they are faced with on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. And of course for the past 14 years. And therefore Mr. Deputy President, we on this side of the house will and is in support of any assistance which the government can make available to St. Jude's in order to improve and further complement the services offered to the St. Lucian people. With that said Mr. Deputy President, I support the resolution to guarantee the borrowing of $3.5 million to the St. Jude Hospital. However Mr. Deputy President, I would like to raise a few issues on the borrowing, the resolution which the leader of government business are presented. And one of the issues I want to raise Mr. Deputy President is to ask the leader of government business what are some of the monitoring or reporting systems, if any, that are going to be put in place to ensure that those monies are spent for the right purposes. I know he gave an explanation as to what they were going to procure and so on. But is there any form of any mechanism of monitoring by the Ministry of Finance or any other agency to ensure that the monies are well spent? Will there be a quarterly or semi-annually report? Mr. Deputy President, and I am saying this Mr. Deputy President because you do not want people to believe or think that they can just go and use up the monies as if they are on a shopping spree. A lot of monies has been made available and we want people to be conscious that the hospital is going through difficult times and the money must be spent wisely. Mr. Deputy President, as if not, we may very well be back here in this honourable house in the next six months, in the next year, guaranteeing more monies. Mr. President, and I have no problems in guaranteeing more monies for St. Jude's. Mr. Deputy President, it's just that there must be proper oversight of the monies. So I don't know if the leader of government business in his rebuttal could assure the honourable chamber that there will be some form of reporting and monitoring system in place to ensure that monies are well spent from this guarantee that is boring. Mr. Deputy President, we hope, we also hope that the monies will not be used to create unnecessary positions and jobs for the boys and girls. Mr. Deputy President, we hope so. Mr. Deputy President, we hope that this money can be used to prioritise as maybe priority number one, the purchase or the proper repair of the floor model X-ray unit at the hospital. This one is very, very important, Mr. Deputy President because the current one has been done for almost a year. Mr. Deputy President, and only a portable X-ray unit is available and is very limited in what it can do at the hospital. Most of the X-rays at the hospital, Mr. Deputy President, have to be done at private facilities which is costing patients a lot more than if they have to get it done at the hospital. It is also a burden, it is also a cost as well to the hospital with X-rays because almost people in the South could tell you almost throughout the day the ambulances are moving from the hospital to those places where the X-ray units are available privately. So that is a cost to the hospital in terms of maintenance of the ambulance ambulances and so on. So we are hoping that the monies can be used to prioritise either the repair or the purchase of this X-ray unit. This is a very, very important piece of equipment that we believe should be given proper attention to. So Deputy President, we are also hoping that the monies can be used to prioritise the purchase of reagents which are desperately needed for doing some key lab tests. Labs are there, equipment are there. Mr. Deputy President, but there is a serious, serious shortage of reagents which are critical, which is probably the key ingredient in carrying out many of the lab tests at the hospital. So again, we need to prioritise and make sure we are able to get those to the staff and especially the security department staff at St. Jude's and the family of a security officer whom I was told passed away last night. And I'm hoping that it was not as a delay of the results of tests from a private facility which he was awaiting, but my sincere and deepest sympathies to his family, the security department and Mr. Deputy President. The operative issues are numerous, Mr. Deputy President. To private pharmacies, even when sometimes they are in critical care, the hospital doesn't have it and people are on the dying beds and families have to be running around trying to get the medication to bring in. That is a problem, Mr. Deputy President. And we are hoping that the monies can be used to procure more medication to have in the pharmacy at the hospital. You have a shortage, Mr. Deputy President of bedsheets, pillows, pillow cases and so on. And these are very critical. You will hear reports of families how to bring in those essentials from home into the hospital, Mr. Deputy President. So we are hoping that the monies can be used wisely to procure a lot more bedsheets, a lot more pillows, pillow sets and so on for the hospital. The cafeteria, Mr. Deputy President, is another issue with the staff at the hospital. And there are days at the staff, they have to push their hands in their own pockets to get certain food stuff, certain essential items for the cafeteria, Mr. Deputy President. And we are hoping that the monies can be used to beef up the supplies in the cafeteria of the hospital, Mr. Deputy President. Mr. Deputy President, I am saying all of this, not to criticise or to blame, but to bring forth some of the key constraints faced by the staff at Zanjoon on a daily basis. Bring forth the plight, the concerns, the complaints, the problems so that it can be addressed. And compounding all of this, Mr. Deputy President, you have the staff with all the operating problems, the physical problems, you have the staff who are still awaiting payment of salary increases and back pay. So this is something that the government needs to look into because the staff are very demotivated, they are frustrated and many of them are living in Zanjoon, Mr. Deputy President. And of course, if many of the staff live and you are not able to get replacement staff, this is going to hamper the quality of service delivered at the hospital. So this is something that needs to look into. I do not think the 3.5 million dollars is going to be able to help with salary increases and back pay, but the government should look at all the means of tackling this issue in order to bring some form of relief to the staff and good chair and ensure that they can continue to serve the people of the south. There is also an issue of the subvention for the hospital. What has happened to the subvention is there any increase to the subvention for St. Jude's, Mr. Deputy President. This is something that needs to be looked into in order to assist the hospital with taking care of some of the problems and issues it is faced with. Mr. Deputy President, this 3.5 million dollars is a help to St. Jude's, but it is just driving the money. It is not going to go very far. Mr. Deputy President. And if the government is to come back here next week, Mr. Deputy President, if the government is to come back here next month to guarantee a net 5, another 8, another 10 million dollars for St. Jude's, I will stand on my feet and all the wellness of the hospital can get work. Because I believe that staff, patients, the people of the south have gone through too much for the hospital to go through so much. And whatever efforts can be done to alleviate the problems and issues I will more and more guarantee the St. Jude's support more guarantee for St. Jude's hospital. As long as Mr. President, Mr. Deputy President, the money will be spent wisely in order to cure some of the problems which have just gone too far. Mr. Deputy President, make a mission on the cleanliness of St. Jude's. That's what St. Jude's had with the general hospital. And this I believe the St. Jude's in exercise was spent during the high school in Upper St. Jude's. So we believe that it was verifiable the St. Jude's in the presence where the staff in training and expertise and the government should look into the requirements in the St. Jude's in exercise. The application is now in Taiwan. So I don't want to mislead you under the leadership of the business or maybe access our DM at the geriatric while she is there to have a good attitude on that. Mr. Deputy President, it will be a remorse for me not to offend and express our gratitude to the staff and medical personnel of St. Jude's. For all what they're doing on the difficult circumstances for the St. Lucian people particularly the people of the south. We are forever grateful to them Mr. Deputy President. And once again Mr. Deputy President with these words I support the resolution and hope that the necessary oversight and priorities will be put in place to ensure that the money I use wisely. I thank you Mr. Deputy President. Thank you Mr. Deputy President. As I rise to make a very short presentation on the motion before us I beg leave of you Mr. Deputy President to extend condolences to the families in view for to over the last few days have lost loved ones and also to take this opportunity to implore the men and women of view for understanding as much that the issue of crime and gun violence is not isolated to the view for area but we must be honest in our deliberations to admit that the events of the last few days have been what we can consider unprecedented and what has caused quite a bit of unsettling within the community Mr. Deputy President it was in fact my intention this morning to present on the bill that we dealt with earlier but as the leader of government business alluded in his presentation the activities of the past few days have affected me in a very personal way and so whilst I stand here today understanding that I have a duty to country we cannot run away from the business Mr. Deputy President and so as a leader as a public figure I take this opportunity to implore our people that there are better ways to settle disputes there are better ways to deal with issues that arise ways that will not create an unsettling of an entire country an entire community Mr. Deputy President and it I think it's so connected that after we're dealing with the bill this morning that we are dealing with a motion to approve this overdraft for the St. Jude Hospital because they are one of the entities who have been in the middle of this of this situation for the last few days having to I mean I know of a situation where a young boy in the gun violence was affected, a very young child just being in a space where has always been safe for him and he had to be taken to the St. Jude Hospital Thankfully the injury was not very serious and thankfully as well that the medical team at St. Jude Hospital was able to deal with the issues presented and he is home doing physically well albeit very concerning about his psychological well being and that of his family and those around him so I just wanted to start by making that submission to the Deputy President Mr Deputy President healthcare is a national issue when we look at goods and provision of goods we look at the difference between public goods and private goods and of course healthcare is a public good and by that I mean a good or service that is provided to the public without the view to make a profit and of course the St. Jude Hospital is one such entity as other medical facilities around the island who are responsible for providing a service albeit not being able to make a profit but ensuring that it is provided in a manner where people are comfortable accessing the services and knowing that when they do access the service that they are getting the best service and so in order to be able to do that Mr Deputy President there needs to be resources made available to that entity to ensure that it can carry out its responsibilities and of course the responsibility to ensure that these services are provided at a standard that is good enough to ensure that the health and safety of its people are promoted falls directly under a government Mr Deputy President and so like we have done in the near past having come here to in the name of the St. Jude Hospital to ensure that equipment and services and are provided for the people and not just the people of the south Mr Deputy President and I have said here before that St. Jude Hospital is very dear to my heart as a daughter of the south of the island it is very dear to my heart Mr Deputy President but understanding that it is not just the south but St. Lucia on the whole and so I stand here today in support of the motion before Mr Deputy President as I start across here I listen to Senator Stanislas on the other side of the house Mr Deputy President and I must first admit that there are some issues that he raised that in my opinion are very vital issues the issue of accountability the issue of ensuring that that monies are used for the intended purpose which the bottom line of is to ensure that a better service is provided it is something that I agree to Mr Deputy President that there must be a proper level of oversight a proper level of accountability to ensure that there is maximum use made of the monies Mr Deputy President but the reality is that you know you wonder sometimes was were they there was he there was he there Mr Deputy President when scarce resources of this country at a time when the resources were even more contracted during the Covid period that monies were spent to procure vaccines that have not touched down on the island of St. Lucia was he there Mr Deputy President was he there Mr Deputy President when a cabinet that he sat in agreed to this exorbitant sums of money Mr Deputy President for contracts and consultancies for things like a move from the Victoria Hospital to the OKEU Hospital Mr Deputy President was he there and did he then recognize Mr Deputy President that the St. Jude Hospital already had an existing problems of no pillars Mr Deputy President in 2014 I born my daughter Mr Deputy President and I could not have delivered at the St. Jude Hospital from the national stadium Mr Deputy President I was transported to the Victoria Hospital it clearly says back in 2014 Mr Deputy President what a honey security problem seller St. Jude Mr Deputy President but the member opposite sat in a cabinet where these conditions existed at St. Jude Hospital kiss I fear about it kiss idea about it was he in the parliament and did he speak about it and did he then ask that these resources that were used to do things like fake vaccine contracts Mr Deputy President Mr Deputy President I carried my pillow to Victoria Hospital when I went there in 2014 I carried my pillow in that hired car from Viewfort my family, my husband and my mother they brought a bedsheets for me at Victoria Hospital my daughter is going to be 18 years old and she was born in Victoria Hospital my daughter is going to be 8 years 9 years Mr Deputy President so the problem existed but the member sat down in a cabinet and St. Jude Hospital was not a priority for that government Mr Deputy President and so once I agree that there are issues that need to be dealt with and they need to be dealt with with a level of experience Mr Deputy President was he there was he awake was he away is it a case of where it was not a priority for the government but we come here and we postulate we come here and for the sake of bad biting and for the sake of spreading that sense of lack of confidence Mr Deputy President they now ask the questions how convenient Mr Deputy President the member opposite spoke of demotivated staff he spoke of staff leaving the hospital this is not a thing of the last 18 months so pa kuma say alas this with more Mr Deputy President say sasio pa gaikis ja te ka feit and in between 2011 and 2016 under a previous Selnosia Labour Party administration under the national initiative to create employment there were additional solutions under that program who were deployed to senju's hospital who assisted in the delivery of better service at senju's hospital I know many young persons from viewport who under that program were assigned to senju's hospital but what did they do when they come in 2016 Mr President they dismembered them they dismembered these people was sent packing Mr Deputy President they contributed to a better level of service at senju's hospital I remember going to senju's hospital during the period and there were persons to meet you and greet you and direct you properly persons who were under that program the nice program a cabinet in a government where the member opposite sat they dismantled these programs and so it means that they decreased the level of service that was being provided by senju's hospital to the people of the south but now he comes into the honourable house and he postulates about what needs to be done and there is something very significant he said Mr Deputy President and I agree and I want to highlight it I want to ensure that it is reiterated he said that the 3.5 million dollars that is in this motion today is but a drop in the bucket and I am the first to agree that it is hands up at the front of the line cherry though it is a drop in the bucket but 3.5 million dollars as a drop in the bucket is something that this administration was continued to ensure that they put people first is coming to this house and saying let us start but did they start did they start 3.5 million dollars a few years ago and like he said if the house comes again and say let's borrow more he will agree let's borrow more and so the question is is it only now that we realize needs that level of assistance Mr Deputy President but I move on like I indicated before I agree that there has to be a high level of oversight and that the expenses that are going to be incurred that they need to be strategic and they need to be purposeful Mr Deputy President a few days ago I saw a young lady apparently she had access service at some healthcare facility I'm not sure if it's Andrews Hospital and she lamented the poor service and the lack of equipment and so on at the hospital and her post went on further to say that this is why the previous prime minister was introducing national insurance and I went back a few years ago when I sat in as a stakeholder representing the fishing sector at a consultation where the healthcare insurance was being discussed and I remember as well that sometime in 2016 just after the 2016 general elections the then prime minister indicated that Victoria Hospital and St. Jude Hospital along with many other health centers island wide not up to standard in terms of the services that they provide to the general public and again it concretizes what the point I made earlier that these issues have existed for far too long they've been there but Mr Deputy President when they demitted office in 2021 these facilities will know more the better than when they inherited office and the issue of the insurance was spoken about until 2021 what happened to it what happened to something that they deemed a priority during the campaign but it never materialized within more than five years in office but this administration Mr Deputy President who have always insisted that health the health of its people is a priority have continued to show that not just St. Jude Hospital but the health care health care on the whole in this country is a priority and we have seen the developments around the island we've seen the improvements to prime health care facilities Mr Deputy President we've seen almost every week the minister of health is in the media with a presentation of a new piece of equipment and a lot of pieces of equipment and some of them that I'm not even I don't have a medical background I remember opposite in terms of the different pieces of equipment and material indicated are necessary or required for the proper functioning of services provided at the hospital but I have seen over the last 18 months that very very regularly the minister of health I think he is probably one of the ministers who are always in the media because something is happening within the health care sector improvements to primary care health facilities equipment being presented to the hospitals and so on and so it means that things are happening and the improvement of the facilities and so on are happening Mr Deputy President and of course it's coming out of a period where we understand what transpired during COVID-19 and of course we understand as well that a lot of things that happened during COVID-19 were very reactive and so like I have said before we need to now put ourselves in a position where we are preparing for the eventuality and it's not that you're saying a lot of days are sky-fed but at the end of the day you have to prepare yourself for the eventuality of such a pandemic or other like occurrence if it does happen that you have created some level of cushion for your people where it comes to health care Mr Deputy President Mr Deputy President again like I started I want to end by saying that it's very important that there is a mechanism for monitoring budgeting and reporting as it relates to not just these monies being borrowed but the run-ins and the operations of the facility as a whole so that perhaps you can get a better understanding of how these things happen but we understand as well and in the lower house the Minister of Health made alluded to some figures and he indicated that there was a recorded drop from 69% of collection in 2019 to as low as 19% in 2022 in terms of collection of persons who access the facility at St. Jude's hospital and the ability to pay for the hospital to collect payment and we know that it is something that has existed of course if somebody goes to the hospital and they can't afford to do particular things they will not be turned away some persons really can't afford to pay but the hospital still has a responsibility especially to these people Mr Deputy President who cannot access perhaps private health facilities to ensure that they are well taken care of and so I think that it's also time that the hospital starts looking at some kind of mechanism that will either help in the increase of collection or some other means of being able to offset the cost of the services provided for individuals visa via what can be collected I remember back in the day there were initiatives such as that persons who could not necessarily pay with money they would probably use a better system I'm not sure if that still exists at St. Jude's and I remember as a child though I was never fortunate enough to attend St. Jude's Bazaar but I'm pretty sure many persons remember the annual Bazaar being held at St. Jude's at St. Jude's at the original site right there on the ground where the where the structure now the other structure now sits that used to be the house for St. Jude's Bazaar and maybe that is an initiative that the hospital can probably reintroduce to help with raising some much needed financing although we know it might be a stretch but we also need to start looking at some sort of mechanism to make the hospital a little more self-sustaining because as much as I like I started that government has a responsibility to ensure that these healthcare facilities provide the necessary services Mr. Deputy President but we also understand that the access of money the access of finance to even central government they continue to shrink over time and so we have to bear in mind that with these patterns we have to come up with other creative sustainable ways in order to be able to bring in much needed revenue these facilities to increase their efficiency Mr. Deputy President and so I am hoping that with this injection of funds that these very things can be done that the service provided that the number of tests or the number of the type of equipment and so on available at the hospital will increase which will reduce the occurrence of persons who really can't afford because I think our focus has to be on those persons who cannot simply walk into Tapio Hospital or go to the other x-ray or labs available at viewfort or in the north of the island to be able to carry out tests and so on some people really can't afford it and they rely solely on the services at reduced costs provided by the public facility Mr. Deputy President and so with this I wish to say again that I applaud the move by the government and of course it has not been a piecemeal approach in that sense it has been there we have seen over the last few months over the last few sittings that there had been other initiatives get towards Senju hospital which has led us to this point today and so it really in my opinion speaks to a real strategic focus of a government that has vowed to put people first to ensure that that the health care is one of the many main facets just like education and social programs and so on that this government continues to to support and ensure that are made available to the citizens of this country and so with this I thank you Mr. Deputy President Senator Fede thank you Mr. President note the rush with which I rushed to put on my mic you know these days Mr. Deputy President the opposition is constantly being bridled and they put a they attempt to cover a voices but Mr. President you know I want to before I begin beg you for a bit of latitude to express our sincerest condolences to the families of the victims of the spate of violence that is taking place in the south of the island right now it is indeed a travesty not to break your stride but can we just take a short break whilst we get the register the senators back in it was a slight interruption during the presentation or contribution by the Honourable Dominic Fede Senator Dominic Fede during his presentation we must show what the issues were it's about to resume thank you Madam President so I was expressing my deepest condolences to the residents of victims that have been caught in the crossfire of the spate of violence currently afflicting the south of the island right now I want to also express our deepest sympathy for those that are also going through other traumatic experiences as a result of this rather difficult time I rise today Madam President to make a few comments on the bill the motion rather that is before us to borrow 3.5 million dollars to operational to finance operational expenses at the Sinjood's Hospital my colleague Senator Herit Stanislas has done a most incredible and outstanding job in painting a very bleak picture of what obtains in one of the island's main hospitals Madam President the comments that I heard in criticism of the senator's attempt to song the voices of south members who are obviously very concerned about the debilitating circumstances and the very strenuous conditions under which they had to work was well intended I don't think he was trying to criticize I don't think he was trying to score political points what he was simply trying to do was to bring to this Senate's attention of the need for urgent and quick remedial action to take care once and for all of the many situations that are affecting the people the workers, the patients the wider communities of which we are here seeking to represent so that we can have policies that will address their situation that's what he was seeking to do he was trying to establish the status quo he was painting the picture he was reported to him by the staff of sinjuts the point is well noted that indeed the problems in our health sector sinjuts included are chronic there are decades old problems what I thought that the senator would have said was that the government of the day is going to sparing no effort to find solutions to the many problems that affect the nurses, the doctors the patients and the wider community there is need for there to be confidence there is need for inspiration there is need for hope and the petty politics is not going to solve the problem and so while we might say well you know I went to Victoria hospital and I carried my own pillows that doesn't solve the problem it is now time you are almost in government for two years to be on top of the situation to say well this is our plan this is how we are going to rectify a rather dire situation that is affecting the country the responsibility is yours the responsibility is yours the responsibility is yours you campaigned in an election you told the people that you had the answers for the many problems that the people voted us out for but yet you still want to go back and govern in the past you still want to go back and look to the mistakes for what the UWP has made and I am preempting the other speakers because I know that is how the political talk will go but madam president I am going to be the first to admit that both political parties have not adequately dealt with the sin judes problem that's a fact both political parties have not addressed the healthcare sector in a manner that is adequate so you could say what you want you could say I had five or twenty years right the people have also looked at you as a failure in addressing the problems so now what is important is how do we put our heads together and find solutions to address an untenable situation at sin judes that's what's important that's the critical thing the political crosstalk doesn't solve any of the problems that is afflicting us at this time and so in that vein madam president permit me to expound today on a few of these issues so the health sector has been plagued by under financing plagued madam president I know that you would know this better than most in this house based on your previous life and being a former minister of health and having to deal with inadequate budgets all the health centers around sin lusia dealing with two national hospitals one in the south one in the north having to import very expensive equipment having to compete with other ministries and other social sectors funding namely education social transformation poverty alleviation sports development hasn't been easy on this small island developing state to address the chronic need of the health sector coupled with that you've had a problem where you train up nurses and then you you're faced with a brain drain situation where you're attracted by bigger countries they've been lured by higher salaries, better working conditions and better contracts and they go away after they are trained and so whether it's flabo or labor in power those problems are going to persist so how do we get our way out of it how do we untangle ourselves how do we then manage and maximize the opportunities that exist amid all of these challenges that are currently facing the health sector presently how do we deal with this problem of under financing what is the strategy by the current St. Lucia Labour Party administration must be asked so that you can lay a solid foundation for any government that comes after you that is the important question what's the big plan what's the comprehensive development plan that's going to ensure that the fiscal strategy of the country that on the revenue side that you're going to do so well so that rather than coming to borrow and take a loan for just 3.5 million dollars that you can say we are able to finance this from our tax revenue because as my colleague has said that this is less than this is less than 2% of your total budget which is 1.8 billion and one would have thought right based on your your reluctance and your strong criticism of borrowing that you would go and pay this in cash because what you have been saying in previous sittings in parliament is that you have said in your own words that you admire the stewardship of the minister of finance because he hasn't borrowed so far that is ludicrous every government has to borrow every government must borrow in fact today you're coming for over 50 million one senate sitting emotions you're coming for 50 million dollars senator Jean Madam President the members mislead in the house you're standing on the point of order yes I'm standing on the point of order the members mislead in the house they have never been said that the minister of finance has not borrowed we cannot be coming here coming here unapproving resolutions and say the minister of finance has not borrowed the members mislead in the house we have persistently said to the member that what he claimed was the intention of the minister of finance to borrow can only be justified after the financial year I'm not late I have been here from October and so far we have approved resolutions we have passed resolutions to borrow but our assertion has always been that what the member presented as what was borrowed was an intention to borrow and we were about two weeks before the end of the financial year and it has not been achieved so the member needs to withdraw the statement that he made and be accurate in what he is presenting to this chamber thank you senator Fede senator Jean has indicated that you have mislead the housing by indicating that the government side has never said that the government would not borrow and so you have been asked to withdraw that statement which he made that the government side indicated that the government will not borrow so I am asking for your response now that you withdraw because I have not heard it in this house either Madam President unfortunately before I withdraw the statement I am going to say that that assertion is wrong and that I don't agree with your ruling but I will move on I withdraw the statement Madam President in the interest of my time I am not disrupting my thing the last time I sat here and I said to the same senator and you will remember very well I am waiting a bill here tomorrow that the government intends to borrow 505 million I remember that conversation very well she said oh he is misleading the house the member does not even know the government's budget I went downstairs I got the estimate page I brought the senator Fede we are not going on this trip no we are talking about money listen take a seat while I speak yes we are not going down this road again we have had this discourse I have ruled on it I kindly ask you to move on with your presentation no revisiting of this situation again at this moment so this is a money bill Madam President and a lot of my contribution has to do with financing the health sector because it is in that vein that we stand here today we are borrowing to finance the health sector how could I be asked to to shut up about the fiscal situation and financing of the health sector senator I think you should choose your words carefully I have not asked you to shut up and I think you should redraw that I have not asked you to shut up please redraw that I redraw the statement yes and I am advising you as I indicated earlier that this course that we have had in the past between you and senator I ask you not to go there to that discourse and that you move on simply thank you Madam President move on senator thank you and so here we are having a discussion about financing one of our hospitals the operational expenses and of course I mean the positions that the opposition will take is not always going to be accepted by the government they rise without any substantive evidence and ask us to redraw statements that have been said on the government side have been said out that the UWP has been borrowing but today we are coming to borrow in one go 50 million and they are well on course Madam President to borrow the 505 million that they planned on the outset of the budget which ends in a few weeks time on the 31st of March I remember coming here in one sitting and 100 million US was borrowed which is amounting to 270 million eastern Caribbean dollars and that was the sitting before I was told that they still had some ways to go in the financial year and so the government and so the government would not have reached that 505 million threshold but the records are coming out soon and we will see when the government is going to borrow and so Madam President financing the health care needs of the country has been undermined significantly over the years by fiscal challenges which governments have faced over the years slow economic growth has affected the taxes that has come through within the various financial years the other problem that we are seeing now and right in this motion we see a reflection of it is the fact that the interest rate that is inching up toward 6% in this very motion look at the terms carefully and we see a very very clear impact on the global inflation problem and so the analysis must be done to show what the measures that central banks around the world are going to that they have taken to try to curtail the global inflation problem what impact that is going to have on governments ability to be able to finance the health care sector that's the big question and so if commercial banks if central banks rather around the world in an effort to curb the inflation problem will raise interest rates what is that going to do to our ability to be able to source monies it is likely that that is going to make our ability to source money especially when borrowing more expensive simply economics and so as that happens what is the government's strategy to win this problem that we face these are the big conversations that we need to have not the the crosstalk that we want to have you are in government for over two years and you owe it to the people to have a strategy I heard the senator mention that the minister is seen very often getting donations from entities whether it's equipment or whatever but this does not solve the problem if you ask people in your community what they think of the health care sector regardless of which government is in power and we are here not to criticize what is going on why are we here we are here to have a big conversation on health care because unless we radically change what is happening now we will not arrive at good quality health care for the people of St Lucia I saw a report that suggested that St Lucia needs about 360 million to get not ideal but good quality health care and if I am not mistaken in the last budget the last one I remember in 2019 was probably 140 million that is being spent in the health sector if you have a different number please share it with the public but the point is whether you are at 160 million or 140 million we are about 200 million short in what we need in the health care sector to ensure that we can provide good quality health care for the people and so I have got news for you madam president for you I have got news for the senator that a donation here and there raising going back to the St. Jude's Bazaar is not going to help us to move the needle drastically because we need to ensure that we can finance the needs of these people and whether you want to call it universal health care or whatever name you want to call your program changing the name of it is not going to help it has to do with how do we finance what is taking place now that is the big question I believe madam president that any government that doesn't address this conversation whether you want to suggest that just by naming it something that you are going to solve health care no that is not going to solve it that is not going to prevent our citizens from going in front of a supermarket with a sheet and asking people to help them when their health care bill overseas is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars that is the reality that is what we face now this is this cannot be a political conversation anymore this has to be a real development conversation that looks at the problems within the health sector head on and my colleague did the most incredible job and it really is a crying shame that instead of saying my colleague here is right the senator is right in what he has done it identifying the problems that are afflicting the health sector he was excoriated he was asked where was he he was asked a whole ton of political questions that have nothing to do with ensuring that we can beat this problem which is going to affect whether it is UWP or the St. Louisian Labour Party Administration that is presiding over the management of the health care sector of the country so unfortunately I've heard nothing from the government to say to me to convince people listening that they are in charge of the situation that they are able to then rectify the problems that are afflicting our citizens in the country whether it is in Jews whether it is in our health centers whether it is improving and expanding the primary health care services whether it is at the Souffray hospital whether it is having sufficient beds whether it is having the reagents look I can go and find in the report that your team did mismanagement I can read out clauses but I'm not going to do that this is the report that was passed in the house this one that your team did that your team did on St. Jude's and to show you where supplies never made it to the island that you have paid for but that's not going to solve anything that's not going to solve anything what's going to solve it is a big conversation to radically turn our health sector on its head and unfortunately our health professionals are not impressed with what you're doing right now and that's why you have a lot of the challenges that are affecting them now you don't have reagents you don't have medication the problems are many and I'm not saying that we didn't have those problems too I'm not saying that we didn't have those problems too but there is a systemic problem there is a chronic problem that's affecting the health care sector that has plagued many ministers of health that's the point that's the point that's what we're trying to say so now how do we address it how do we beat this situation on its head how do we overcome it you can tell us all of our faults we're not perfect but you are in government for almost two years you're going to be there for July March 19 months but you're there for a long time now you've got to take responsibility and stop distracting the country from playing politics and so Madam President the position that the government has taken on borrowing and I say this unashamedly that created us while in government for borrowing and the position that they have taken on borrowing I think it has now tied their hands as it relates to it is now coming back to haunt them if I can use that that phrase because now they need to come to the house to borrow to fix a necessary problem and we support it we support the idea but what we cannot appreciate is the duplicity and the double standards with which they have conducted their affairs you cannot have one position in our position and then adopt another position in government and that's what we're saying is that with problems like these we need to ensure that we have the adequate amount of financing to be able to do that there can be no price on the people's health and so if you have to borrow borrow that's fine nobody is going to criticize you for that but what we do criticize is the fact that you have assumed an irresponsible and reckless position while in opposition and now you want to change your mouth to say you always meant irresponsible you are going to borrow in this year you plan to borrow the most that a government has ever borrowed outside a pandemic outside a pandemic or an economic disaster that's what you that's your record the most 505 million is what you intend to borrow right and if you have a policy that you feel that you need to in this fiscal year get some things done I have no problems with that Madam President on a point of order the member continues to mislead the house the member indicated that this government intends to borrow 505 million Eastern Caribbean dollars which is the highest borrowings by a government Madam President outside a pandemic whether it's outside or inside of a pandemic the records revealed from the estimates of expenditure that in the year 2020 to 2021 the government of St. Lucia borrowed 601 million 281 thousand 475 dollars whether it is inside or outside of a pandemic Madam President the records reveal Madam President that there was more Senators that's just important thank you very much Senators Daniel Madam President I rise just to seek some elucidation because I am hearing Senator Fede qualifying his claims of heavy borrowing he was careful to say outside a pandemic maybe I missed this but hasn't ended been declared authoritatively and formally to the pandemic because I am under the impression that as per our guidance from WHO from CARFA and from others that the world is still considered to be in a pandemic and no official end to the pandemic has been declared so can you clarify that for me as to whether the government of St. Lucia is still not subject to an influence by a pandemic Senators Fede your clarification please thank you very much Madam President I want to thank my learned friend for the question and I want to say to him that obviously in the year 2020 2021 the year that the Senators have quoted you would agree with me that we were in the middle and in the depth of the pandemic I want to say to you that when we look at the Madam President through you I want to say to the member that as we look at the public health indicators and the way that the public health officials address this issue the protocols are lax travel restrictions are there we are not coming to parliament with a mask anymore the number of COVID cases that we would have had in the year 2020 cannot compare it's chocolate cheese between I beg to guide you accordingly yes masks are not being worn etc but I concur that it has not been officially announced that the pandemic is over and so I think you should correct your statement for the record so Madam President if I can just give a bit more elucidation so Senator Daniel spoke about the world the only country of late that have gone through have a COVID problem is China St. Lucia hasn't had a major outbreak in COVID where did you have that and so therefore I understand that I understand the members question but let's qualify this we're talking about the fiscal position of St. Lucia we're talking about senator we're talking about the statement that you made that the COVID-19 period is over and I am saying to you I am saying to you just like the senator indicated as I last read from Paho from the director and WHO that COVID is not over I received that information myself so I'm saying to you it's time to correct your statement it is not over senator please correct that for the record Madam President would you agree with me if I say to you that the height of the pandemic has certainly subsided would you agree with that are you correcting your statement and do you also agree Madam President did you say no no I mean we're having a chat I'm not having a chat I indicated to you to correct the information for the record this is going to no problem so you do not want this to go down as your statement so correct it and so Madam President I'll correct it this way while the world is still on COVID watch it is clear that we are no longer in the height of the pandemic and so Madam President we cannot compare when a government's economy is shut down when the borders are closed and the impact that would have on a tourism dependent economy we cannot compare when the cost of health care during the height of a pandemic and the impact that that would have on government's own response and the money is required to what is happening now the economy is open the borders are open in a tourism dependent driven economy and so there can be no comparison to then and now is the point that we are making and so if you are I mean look the country is still for example responding to the some of the infrastructure requirements of hurricane to mass they are still building some hurricane to mass 15 minutes to complete your presentation am I going to say that the year when hurricane to mass happen that I can compare what level of financial resources that a government had to employ then versus now to the back end of the response obviously as you move away from the center of the disaster response you are going to have less to spend and I think this is the point senator that we are trying to establish through you Madam President the senator but moving on they they are the 3.5 that we are coming here to borrow I agree with my colleague it's a drop in the bucket and I wonder as we hear all of these problems that are affecting syndudes why why this is the amount that is being sought here for approval whether is it that the the syndudes management team would have indicated that this is okay or where they are requesting more is there a shortfall in terms of what they requested versus that is an important question because I certainly would have liked to have known whether they are requesting 10 million and they only got free because we are dealing with a particular financial problem in the country that is an important question and I wish that the government side could answer that maybe in the rebuttal by the leader of government business but this problem I do understand the issues that budgetary constraints can often have but it requires us to have a serious revenue conversation pertaining to how do we then better finance not just healthcare but how do we then better finance the operations of government how do we kickstart this economy so that the economic growth that we can derive from this strategy that the government would have or if there is a strategy we would certainly like to know on this end to improve the revenue grow the revenue so that we can address the situation where it was mentioned that better collections were necessary by the senator and yes that will help better accountability but again I would respond to that by saying how I started the big financial conversation the big revenue conversation the big economic conversation so that we can address the situation that is afflicting day thing so I do note here madam president that almost 54 million is being sought here today over various motions that's quite a bit of money and I look forward to debating the other borrowings that are going to be done on this bill they I mean other motions rather so not the positions to be in but I want to say that we in spirit support the borrowing to finance the operations we want to let the health sector employees know that we stand with them we are here to give whatever moral support that we can we are not the government but we are going to give whatever moral support that we can to make sure that the tools that they get that they require that we will raise our voices when necessary so that the government can do right by them and support them so I will end here madam president by saying that in spirit we support this but we have concerns about the bigger picture we have concerns about the government side side's own ability to get on top of the situation we have concerns about how duplicitous this government have been on borrowing and I think that today exposes that duplicity and exposes that double standard where governments have got to be very careful of positions that they may take in opposition because one day you are going to have to govern one day you are going to have to govern with the reality and one day you will have to deal with important matters like this I thank you very much madam president senator polius ok let me catch up thank you madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president madam president at the St. Jude Hospital, doctors, nurses, and all those who play a critical role in helping our citizens recover from whatever ailment, whatever illness that challenges them. So we recognize that and we appreciate what they've been doing given the circumstances under which they operate, under which they work. Madam President, I want to lend my support to this motion to allow the Minister of Finance to borrow in the sum of $3.5 million for the purpose of assisting with working capital requirements at the St. Jude Hospital. We welcome, Madam President, any intervention, any measure that is going to bring some form of relief to our people. We welcome it. However, we need to begin to look at the bigger picture. At the bigger picture, Madam President, we want to begin to look forward and we have to look forward to the day when this administration will make it possible for St. Lucians to enjoy quality healthcare facilities that go beyond the quick fixes to those that meet international standards, international health standards, and to those that can help to reduce the outrageous medical expenses that our people have to incur, particularly when they have to be flown over to Martinick for medical treatment. And at this point, let me extend my wishes to the member for Tassery Southeast. I want to wish him a speedy recovery. Today it is him, tomorrow it might be me or someone else. Whatever the former administration did or whatever they attempted to do to improve the quality of healthcare in St. Lucia would help to alleviate, would help to reduce the amount that we have to spend to receive medical treatment in other countries in our neighboring islands in Martinick. And Madam President, you would agree that not everyone can afford it. Very few of us can afford it. Very few of us can present the 10,000 euros or the 12,000 or 20,000 euros in order to receive that kind of medical treatment. What do we do for those who can't afford? What do we do for the minority? How can we assist them? How can we help them access better quality healthcare? This is what the former UWP administration sought to do. Madam President, I won't be too long on this matter. But just to reiterate my support, our support for the motion and also to remind us, to remind St. Lucia, to remind this government, to remind all of us that quality healthcare leads to a healthier nation. It leads to the longevity of our people, most importantly, to a well-fear nation. That's important. And we cannot play games with the health of our people. Whether it is this government or the former, any government, we cannot play games or political games with the health of our people. Until it hits us, a family member, our husbands, our wives, our children, to begin to act. No. So whether I am of this chamber today or on the other side, I will maintain my position. I will maintain my position. We need to give credit where credit is due. And we need to ensure that our people, our sons and daughters of Fair Helene, receive the best quality healthcare that is there. Madam President, to conclude, and we all hope that the monies to be borrowed will be used to augment the healthcare system in our country. And will be used also to make healthcare more affordable for all Saint Lucians. I thank you. Senator Daniel. Madam President, thank you so very much for recognizing me. And thank you for the welcome that you give as well as the fellow senators. As you know, I'm only here for one day. Barely enough time to get my feet wet. I had decided or thought that I would come in and listen and learn and try to see very little, if anything at all, because of my lack of familiarity with the processes and procedures here and said, you know, rather than come and try to jump in too early, it might be good to hold back a little. But then I figured why be here at all if I'm not going to add or contribute anything whatsoever. I must say I am very impressed and very pleased with the quality, the tone, and I just say the goodwill of the debate here, especially on this resolution, to borrow $3.5 million for the purpose of working capital in respect of St. Jude Hospital. And one of the tragedies of when you have to relocate and when you have to move from facilities that are in a bad state of disrepair and dereliction and deterioration and dilapidation is that even while you have to be undertaking the humongous expenditures of the new facility, construction, it's equipping, it's outfitting, it's staffing, and all the things that go with it, you have to be spending a lot of money on the very one that you know you have to leave. And sometimes even more so because it is in a dilapidated condition, money that you wish that you would have liked ideally to repurpose, to redirect to the new facility you still have. It's the reality you have to be spending it, especially on one that was not designed for that purpose, one that has had the ravages of weather, of time, of rust, of every sort. And I think this is the dilemma of the whole St. Jude Hospital matter that you have to be experts of millions of dollars on a new facility while at the same time recognizing it is what it is you have to stay and deal with the one that is. Now I have to tell you I'm a little bit surprised that the resolution as simple and straightforward as this has formed the depth of discussion that it has brought. You know I thought it was a straightforward matter that you know it's a hospital, it has need of working capital, it has need for expenditures, it has needs for procurements, for acquisition, for supplying the routine things that you find with any institution but more so with a hospital. So I'm thinking to myself, why is there the difficulty in understanding that this needs to be done, especially I'm hearing concerns as to whether the money will be spent for the purpose for which it is intended, as to whether the money will be spent properly, as to whether it will deal with this and with that. So I wonder the impression and please any other of my colleague's senators who want to educate me a little bit because I am the least of the apostles there, the least educated. Are they not already in place a sufficient framework of public sector financial accountability in terms of the finance management act, in terms of whatever it is that applies in that case, that we can know that when allocations are made, especially one which involves the Parliament of St. Lucia which means automatically it becomes a charge on the state, it becomes something that is the business of the state, it becomes something that may well if not now but later if not directly or indirectly involve the consolidated fund of the state that there will not be sufficient monitoring evaluation accountability and reports and so on to say hey we have guaranteed this money for you. If you default on it ultimately it is going to be a liability and a charge on the central government because why we may be dealing with a board, a statutory body whatever we call it at the end of the day the buck stops with the central government. There is a minister who would have appointed people to that board they would be answerable ultimately to him so I do not know what is the panic about the probability with which the money that is being guaranteed is going to be spent. To me it has to be of necessity spent in accordance with established public sector financial accountability procedures, laws, regulations, whatever that you have. Well taken. Well taken. But then I have to ask myself is maybe that uneasiness on the basis of things that have happened in the past. I mean when you have the absolutely loose way in which vaccines were procured or attempted to be procured that money is just going put in the hands of an agent or intermediary who is not in any way connected with the public financial procurements or disbursement systems of the state who has no track record or connection to WHO or PAHO or CAFA who are all there to help us and have helped other countries in the region to get the vaccines. You just put it in the hands of that person to get vaccines for us. I don't know if we ever got any vaccines. I heard we got some of the money back and I suspect the quantity that is still outstanding to us may well be roughly equal to what this resolution is seeking to provide. So perhaps there is an uneasiness about it. I was also surprised by the president to find that there seems to be a misunderstanding of an authorization of a minister to borrow money and the actual borrowing. There seems to be a misunderstanding of when we have a budget which to my knowledge we not recall the estimates of revenue and the expenditure which in effect outline plans for how you intend to spend money where you intend to spend it and how you intend to raise or to get that money. But you are going to get it by grants, by loans, by taxes, by whatever it is, the combination of the whole gamut of them that you are making a statement of intent. That an authorization to borrow does not represent the actual borrowing. Just like the estimates do not mean actual expenditure that is entered into. And so I mean I'm just wondering you know you you you authorize to borrow does that mean the borrowing will ever take place. So when you begin to already reckon an authorization to borrow or estimates as if they are already debt as if they are already things that are contracted and entered into. I don't know I would like to consider maybe I am the ignorant one in all of this and I do not and I do not understand it. So I hope that those things can be clarified but I believe some of the questions that are raised they are legitimate questions. They are the business of an opposition to where the government accountable even sometimes on points that may seem irrelevant. As we say to make sure that you remain faithful and that you remain you know have a certain fidelity towards proper and best practices. But it would be good if we had seen those best practices ahead to at other times. There is no telling for example I hear opposition members very often referring to the government and the government this and the government that. I am hoping that going forward that all legislators and this is someone who just passing through that they will develop that integrated sense of oneness when it comes to government. We here including yours truly was only here for today must understand that in the tripod of governance that is seen by our constitution. The executive aka the cabinet extended the public service the legislature which is two houses of our bicameral parliament and the judiciary the courts the judges the magistrates etc. That they all are parts of government and so they are a part of the government as well. And they have to make sure that when they come to this house and debate things that they have in their minds that we are part of the apparatus as well. The eyes do not always have it and need not always have it because we have committee stages where things are discussed. Amendments are made adjustments are made changes are put before they are brought before the people of St. Louis. So that is my little contribution in terms of asking about the monitoring and how the money is going to spend if it is well spent. If things are spent in accordance with the law whatever the mechanisms of accountability then there should be absolutely no issue or no problem with that. The financing plan doesn't this adequately say that this is a resolution to authorize the minister of finance you know to guarantee. Well you see that's the problem I believe you know. But this is the point too much extraneous references that go beyond an outside what we are dealing with we dealing with a resolution. Let us deal with that we're not talking about an overall fiscal management plan that is outlined usually in the budget the national budget for us to be going into a plan. That is where the different heads of a budget of how you're going to spend money the various heads on the way it will be spent how you're going to get that money. That is where the plan is there. But at the same time for the immediacy we need to talk about the needs of St. Jude Hospital to finance its day to day operations providing them the facilities of an overdraft and so on that they have to do so that they don't have to be running cap in hand to the accountant general and the minister of finance every day. That they will be doing things according to corporate governance in accordance with best practices and these are the things that we want them to be able to do. I am certain that whatever board they has as representation from the central government whether from the ministry of health whether from the ministry of finance. So that if the board is has any tendency to use the overdraft and the facilities and the guarantee in a manner that is not in keeping with the overlapping plans of and force in Jude Hospital. That the government takes responsibility for that they can be reined in finally madam president I want to say. You know we have to be very careful. When we come and pontificate and moralize about things which we were in a position to influence and to correct. You see this whole matter about awarding contracts. I think the issue that the senators brought is a very good one. It has to do with best practices and best value for money. How much best value for money was it in the culture of direct awards that we saw in this country. How much value for money can you assure yourself or guarantee yourself. When you are not engaging in any process of tendering or competitive bidding is just direct award after direct award after direct award. And you're not talking about for a few million or even five million or whatever direct award for how many tens of millions of dollars repetitively. And it seems like those direct awards were going to only one beneficiary or recipient almost all the time. And these are the things we need to tell ourselves when we circumvent and bypass the proven best practice and recommended means of fiscal management and accountability which involves tendering and competitive bidding. And we did that so continuously and repetitively for so many years whether we have robbed ourselves of the credibility of the legitimacy of the moral authority to talk about best practice. But despite this it serves no purpose to continue reproaching and reminding others of their errors although those who do not remember the past may well doom themselves to repeat it. But in this new dispensation we must all agree that if we are going to speak about best practice there has to be an acknowledgement of the history of bad practices of my practices that probably have landed us in a financial squeeze where maybe now we need to borrow more than we perhaps otherwise might. I did say finally but a little note after the finally. I have never and I'm not claiming to be one who has paid attention the most ever heard this government especially the prime minister and minister of finance ever say that they have no intention to borrow or that they will not borrow. I remember him saying that up to this point when I was listening we have not yet borrowed. I have never heard them suggest that borrowing is a nafima that borrowing is evil that borrowing is a no no that would be absolute madness on its own said to suggest that the government will not borrow and it does not have to borrow. What we need to make is the differentiation between getting parliamentary authorization to borrow whether for the annual fiscal budget or whether for these resolutions. Whether we should be speaking of them as if they are already fed up with. We may have something that changes we may have better tourism. We may have better hotel occupancy tax. We may have better collections. We may have unexpected aid that makes even the intent to borrow as stated in a document such as the appropriation bill which in fact all it does is that it authorizes the raising of revenue and the expenditure of funds. But it does not necessarily say that they will be contracted in fact that is why you end up having fiscal surpluses as well as you might end up having fiscal deficits at the end of the day. So we need to make those differentiations and stop making it sound like an authorization to borrow or an appropriation bill which gives the legal authority to raise money and to spend money that it means it has already and actually been done. I am a newcomer. I am just passing through. I don't want to pretend like I come here and I have any capacity to educate people. But just some observations that I thought I should share in acknowledgement and in gratitude for this honor and privilege that I have been granted for this day. Madam President, thank you. Thank you Madam President. Your light. Madam President, I did not intend to speak on this bill, on this resolution. Because when I saw this resolution to borrow 3.5 million EC dollars or to guarantee the borrowing of 3.5 million EC dollars కిని కిివిక్నిినింటి కాయకి ఆలిసిని. ఠాయచి ఴని రిల౿టకింటిచారిరంటికిటఙ హిసి. అంట౿కికిరంటికికికికిటా�aur. because madam president we all know that healthcare is expensive and quality healthcare madam president requires tremendous resources madam president 3.5 million dollars to meet working capital or operational cost or perhaps we could term it as short term obligations for a hospital is really a minute amount to be injected into such an institution madam president our citizens must realize that when they seek services from our health our public health institutions that they are really not paying the true cost of healthcare because madam president when we go to some private hospitals and i remember once going to a private hospital and after getting my bill an itemized bill where it showed the cost of every little piece of gauze that was used the little hand that they gave me the gloves that were used by the medical staff that was used in the process of providing health services to me at that time was itemized and i remember speaking to someone who worked in the public health system and was talking about the amount and the itemized bill and she said to me this is really the true cost of healthcare citizens go to our health institutions and have to pay 25 dollars for health services and leave in a better condition we know that they are not paying the true cost for health services some of us who have had to travel overseas and to get health services or health care we see there too the true cost of health care some of it mountain to the hundreds of thousands of dollars madam president we know that the san jude hospital is housed in the judge odd lam stadium and they are dealing with aging infrastructure they have to deal with maintenance of that in infrastructure compounded by the fact that the fact of escalating crime in that particular locality and so exacerbates the pressure of the hospital staff at the san jude hospital i hear and i want to add my voice assistance to the staff of the san jude hospital but madam president will the staff of the hospital forget the neglect that they suffered over the last five plus years when there was an opportunity madam president have been the completion of an existing structure to transfer the hospital to its original site it's madam president this is what it is abwet abwet big madam president there are no services no utilities in that box entire five-year governmental term more than five years more than five years i call it five plus overtime and the staff of the san jude hospital still have to endure the facilities in the judge odd lam stadium so now we crying for the staff but madam president history is extremely important i'm hearing like they don't want to hear about history but if we do not know our history we will not know where we will go in madam president and so it is important for us to highlight to the people of st lucia the poor planning and management of our country that we faced over the period 2016 to 2021 it is important to keep it in etched in the minds of our people that we had a government that did not have their interests at heart and so for the san jude hospital imagine madam president we came here a few months ago to amend the san jude act to cause the minister of finance to be able to guarantee borrowing of san jude we had to do that first thenization and now to allow them to borrow but to be guaranteed by the government of st lucia just three point five million dollars we want to talk about monitoring systems yes of course we need monitoring systems but didn't we need monitoring systems when we were giving what they call them an entertainer when we had a kovac system that provided us with an entertainer cement provider an entertainer stroke cement provider stroke whatever funds payment when we in the public service that you have a limit for you to give a supplier an advance payment before you can receive the supplies in this case we gave the to get our vaccine money back of people each time coming here we need to have a larger crowd to demand our money back because in top st lucia had that seven million dollars vaccine money we would not have to come and borrow three point five million madam president means that need the money most are the ones languishing i agree with the member on the other side that we do not know when it will be ours is from these hospitals and so we need to have the hospitals well serviced well resourced but madam president there's something called opportunity cost the money that we have taken and spent on all the things is reducing the amount that we could spend on the important things like health care madam president when we took thirty two million dollars and we gave to a man to put plastic grass madam president grass that has the potential children sick they gave them thirty two million dollars opportunity cost madam president thirty two million dollars to range development madam president time ago because i've been listening to this dahan mall this whole thing about dahan mall it was so confusing to me because when i do math that math produces logic it tells you right it's purchased by the government of st lucia for fifty five million dollars do the math by the government of st lucia that very same structure was a loss on that opportunity cost madam president cotton these monies we would have better health facilities in our country a box shopping done on st jude love st lucia we're not listening but madam president we were listening attentively so that was the measurement that was the yardstick no bill no st jude no vote a hundred and eighteen million dollars as every member in here any of us have a million dollars on our account or did they leave but no have a million dollars on our bank account madam president maybe some of them i don't know dollars in my possession nice lolly and tamarin balls to sell president is what is in that one hundred and eighteen million dollar box that has now behind to complete the hospital but for the wisdom of this administration and this prime minister the people of st lucia will see a st jude hospital fully furnished and providing quality services very very soon with international standards because the box didn't meet international standards the box madam president the box madam president the cladding we've seen the research shows adding is not even the nutella it was painted yellow too we by john john john just public the glemon echo the david we need to have more confidence in our people that our people know madam president extreme machine and reagents and so on and i've just been guided that stream machine at st jude hospital is fully functional at this time t by moon madam president pavini si amati because the business from the south know that the extra machine is functional let me go on madam president the floor mounted machine needs servicing was held with general electric which is the equipment supplier a meeting was held yesterday for servicing the mounted x-ray machine soon so there is x-ray service huh look at vini si akare le by bamoon come see the way you know we have the people so concerned about the people so yeah there is no shortage of critical pharmaceuticals at this time while from time to time we do have shortages of some pharmaceuticals due to supply chain issues whether we in the middle of covid or we in the beginning or in the end we still have issues supply chain issues war in ukraine we have covid still want to put it in context pre covid middle covid past covid post covid blasha we take kind of pity on the people of the south and you know make people believe that there are no services down there and even though there are no services down there but a president like i said before the opportunity cost of doing and everything is what is now on the plight of the san jude hospital we know of the wars of san jude we knew was happening with san jude yet still madam president what was the priority of the former government you know they want us to forget history we must never forget history the people of san blusher need to demand that they are put before horses condition first class in yote ka vini madam president the heart on the head and the fascinator you know i really don't see you can eat what they say the san jude derby derby oh while people in san jude hospital some of them had to be seated in wheelchairs while they were waiting for service because they are not adequate beds within more than 10 percent your coupé style your coupé they take out 2.5 percent and say oh because they promise that the people voted for emanation of that emanation of that yoti weight 2.5 percent 2 million dollars a year opportunity cost madam president now we're talking about a national health insurance and it would have been good to utilize that 2.5 percent of 52 million dollars as a national health insurance you know i don't know what kind of nomics it is when you whether it's the economics accounting management business science it makes it like a buoyant you know you want a reduction in fact the only if you have less revenue go into the government of senu sure to the consolidated fund right but at the supermarkets and where we have to go to get service we're not seeing the effect these are the things this is what the national health insurance madam president we're talking about the bigger picture we want to see the bigger picture but before we look at the bigger picture you know we must touch the trees before we see the forest right so the bigger picture must start with a single step which is give the senjud hospital a guarantee to raise its financing that's the step bigger picture not coming from the sky you know when they once said i remember seeing a rendering of the pearl of the carabin the pearl picture the pearl of the carabin up to a juco jordi lapani yo what's that half of what's the pearls i have the pearls right the pearls right you don't see pebbles you don't see stones you don't so that's the bigger picture but it starts it has to start with a single step don't come with your big grandiose things bigger picture starts with every little thing that we add to it so we need the national the implementation of the national health insurance needs to be hastened to provide the resources for health care and quality service to the people of sentlusha madam president lastly i just want to note that ever since i've been in this august chamber from october of last year almost every resolution that has come to us has been for health care and that shows the focus of the government and people of sentlusha of the government of sentlusha in particular the slogan of putting people first is not just a slogan but it is really put into action by these resolutions that will cause an improvement in our health care system in sentlusha so when we hear it was not covid because you're not in covid and you're not the point is of the things that could have been done in the past that were neglected must be done by this government and this government has taken the bold step to go into the borrowing give the resources to the various hospitals so that our people can get better services better health care and to take the the the the the problem that was used by my friend senator polius health is wealth healthy nation is a wealthy nation if we leave the health of our country to just languish none of us in sentlusha will be wealthy thank you very much madam leader of government business thank you madam president i would like to respond briefly to the contributions made by my colleagues and as fit would have it i'm about to rebut for yet another occasion my colleague leader of opposition business is absent i look forward to the day when that will not happen but i do thank his colleague for being here i'm understanding that senator stanislas had good reason not to be but with the leader of government opposition business madam president same old same old madam president the prime minister has been very very clear about the priorities or the focus of this government as far as what we believe must be given high and deliberate priority at least for now and i think senator john mentioned it towards the end of a presentation that there are two issues that the prime minister has been very clear about in terms of his policy focus and direction that we have in the last 18 months and a little bit more decided that must be priority and even in the next budget soon that will soon be delivered we will see that focus being again brought to the fore and that is madam president one health care and two national security and as consistent as we have been and as correct as the senator was most of the time we have come to this chamber to seek approval for borrowing health care has been one of the most well the main reason really and so that is very consistent and as far as national security before this motion our business this morning was to attend to that we have come before also to make amendments to the firearms act on other related legislation to be to be fought upon our national security because we recognize what the needs of our country is at this time so it's by no accident madam president that this motion and two others to come are focusing on health care madam president i just want to briefly touch on a few issues that were raised one by the first member of the opposition who spoke and has left i have to give him some credit because he attempted in the beginning to take to have a posture of empathy but you know the opposition has a way they can't help themselves even when they try their very best to see that they support a bill or motion that malady that tendency to find a low blow always comes in so i listened and the posture of empathy was there speaking about the these the issues that he would like to see addressed which in in the main will correct at san jude hospital at some point i wanted to ask him whether he had a short stint as a staff member because he seemed to have intimate knowledge of some of the needs of the hospital i know he's from so fray but clearly he had intimate knowledge and i had no issues with that reagents apparatus for ivy pharmaceuticals bedsheets pillows cafeteria supplies even made a suggestion about twinning with the taiwanese which is all good no problems with that but madam president i just want to for the benefit of the opposition ask the member that with all of those intimate details that he has of san jude that of course have been there for a while i would have expected him to have raised those issues when he sat in a cabinet he's now in opposition he sat in a cabinet where every monday decisions will be made about what we were going to spend on what we were going to decisions we're going to to decide on what we need to do as priority and i would like to find out where well my colleague said where was he but where was his voice then albeit okay maybe he has come to the realization you know elections have consequences and that's one of the consequences of elections sometimes it allows us to see things that we didn't want to see before so the reality is with him now and i hope that it's a good a rude awakening for all for all of his other colleagues madam president we then heard from the the leader of opposition business and while i ask the question of the previous senator stanislas i was hoping that the leader of government business would have taken a cue from his approach i must say senator polius had a completely different approach and i'll get to her shortly because clearly she didn't follow the cue of her leader at least not this time of her leader in this senate not this time but i i just hold my breath on that one madam president the leader of opposition business in his usual way went about raising some issues and many of them are issues that are not new so i don't want to go into the details of all of them in the interest of time but these issues he was raising madam president is exactly why we are here today that is why we came here today to address the issues that he had raised so i don't know why he was just you know going on and on about the issues we have recognized these issues are there and so we are here today to authorize for the money to be available to address those very issues but then he made a few other points that i have to address and one of them madam president is that he was making a suggestion to this government to in his his whole thrust about taking a whole comprehensive plan for health that he all of a sudden has that we should consider tax revenue in other words imposing a tax yes now governments will some from time to time have to introduce taxes i am not going to take the liberty to see that the liberal party government shall never impose or introduce a tax that's dangerous grounds just like the prime minister never said that he will not borrow but when the opposition in suggesting alternatives and ideas tells especially this opposition tells the government that they should consider a tax the first thing i thought about was oh i i just wanted to i i wanted to to leave him i didn't say anything but i suspect this opposition is looking for content for the press conference and that would be a juicy topic that the labor parties imposing taxes on the people of st lucer that is what they did when we had that oh that is 15 percent and we'll cut that there's too many taxes the people are the countries over burden with taxes that's what the leader use and one day lectures in 2016 too many taxes and he's going to cut that but today they're asking us to put a tax so that they can go and have press conferences and share it but madam president we're not dancing to the tune of the opposition this government came in with a mandate and we'll stick to it madam president he also tried to make an issue out of the borrowing and you know borrowing we said we wouldn't borrow and he went back to the tried to go back to the 508 million and i think senator john had to stand up and and and challenge it but madam president i think that we must remind the opposition that many of the times we came here and we are going to come back here a lot of what he's telling us that we are borrowing for as we will see in the next motion is to pay is to pay for the debt that his government and in his cabinet has incurred on us and when i say on us not on the government but on the people of this country and we have obligations to the creditors we have to pay back now if they had borrowed these monies and had spent these monies in a prudent way for us to have come here today and see well they used it for that and we now don't have to pay but madam president these monies were virtually squandered and now we have to come here to borrow money to pay those debts but you know they know what they did so they did what they did and every time we come to try and pay for what they did they tell us oh you borrow you have been with any puppy because you keep on with that puppy madam president i want to be to be brief so i need to wrap up interest rates you know when you're fishing for an argument all over the place interest rates you notice that the interest rates on this on this loan is almost six percent really i remember the the the former prime minister his leader on a post on a posting going on these days but i don't i don't want to go there he's on a post leader um coming to the parliament i was sitting on this side and telling the parliament that we're proud to be to be able to borrow that's the first time in the history of any parliament i've heard any prime minister saying to his people we are proud to be able to borrow how could you be proud to be able to borrow nobody wants to have to go and borrow if you can do without borrowing all the better you borrow when you need to but this prime minister was proud to be able to borrow because the interest rates were concessionary especially when there was the covid situation millions being borrowed that's the money that we were talking about and when they couldn't deal with the money is that they were justifying we we are proud to be able to borrow because the interest rates were so good but today he's concerned about interest rates you know the difference an election makes and i have told him he should not say mr speaker get used to mr or madam president because the people have answered the canaries they've done what they had to do madam president again when you know the whole argument had no focus the leader of government business then opposition business i'm sorry then try to bring in the issue of borrowing inside the pandemic and outside the pandemic and then in the middle of the pandemic and it was the pandemic and the pandemic and the pandemic so the argument has shifted from all different angles right first introduce attacks then you need to you need to to watch the interest rate and then borrow how much you're borrowing inside and outside and around and between the pandemic well the senator daniel being very alert of course really you know del del him a good blow when he stood on a point of order to make a very very valid point that no one has declared that there is no more no more pandemic pandemic because in fact in my in my explanation of the of the of the the motion i did indicate that covid is still with us and all of us have agreed so this thing about outside pandemic and inside pandemic madam president was just another way of trying to derail the argument that we are only here to authorize money for san jude hospital operations and so the opposition again has failed to convince anyone that they have any valid argument against what was there at least the leader of opposition business was not able to do that now it took us to the the senator polius who i think today had a very interesting approach so far very different and i i i crossed my fingers because we have more motions to come so i don't want to get too comfortable but i must see that her contribution focus on making it very clear that when there is need to borrow for a cause of health that she thinks it is justified i picked up the essence of that and i thought that argument was balanced and faith madam president however and that's i was saying when she started i know there was a point when something is going you know i know it was coming however i didn't miss the point that she made about her governments her then governments previous borrowing was and i noted it really allowing to reduce the amount of borrowing we had to do now so logical argument yeah i i i she can paraphrase and medical expenses very good thank you senator that the boring that took place previously by the uwp government was essentially a way of reducing the medical expenses that we would have had now so um she could stand on the point of illucidation i would love for that to happen but i got up from what she was saying that there was some merit in the borrowing that they have done before because we have been telling this opposition that you all have been you all were the ones who abuse the borrowing but when that was said madam president it took me straight to the point of well if that was the case i want to ask the opposition whether the seven million dollars and we put the vaccine argument the seven million dollars that was borrowed for the vaccine how did that help to reduce on the health care expenditure we have to be because we have to pay it back we want to be responsible clients if you borrow when we borrow it's not the uwp who borrows it's not the slp who borrows it's a government of st lucer that borrows so whoever is the government of the day has a commitment to repay the debt to whoever the creditor is and so now that we are in government and there is outstanding debt that is chipping away at our ability to take care of the health sector who is responsible now so i leave that question to be answered maybe in the next in the next debate but for now madam president i want to affirm this government's commitment to ensuring that our two priority areas of national security and health care are given the kind of treatment and priority that they deserve and that this motion accompanied by others makes it very clear that what we need to do and what we are going to do is to continue to provide the finance the resources the manpower the policy direction and everything else that the government in its capacity can do to take better care of our health sector our people and to make this this this entire approach to to um managing our our health our health care facilities and our health care system a better one i look forward to the benefits that will be accrued to the people of the the the staff and the hospital um the st. jude hospital the patients and everyone who is a stakeholder it is the hospital that i will go to if i fall sick because of where i live and i know that the staff there's the board and everyone associated with that facility will be very happy that this government is making an effort towards assisting them with the operations and i thank them the members in this senate for supporting this bill and that this this motion and that the the the people who it's intended to benefit will benefit i thank you madam president senators the question is that parliament authorizes the minister finance to guarantee an overdraft facility in the amount of three million five hundred thousand dollars from the republic bank eastern caribbean limited to the st. jude hospital for the purpose of assisting with working capital requirements be it for the resolved that a the repayment of the advances are on demand be the interest is payable monthly at the bank's base lending rate from time to time less four percent per annum with a present effective rate of six percent per annum and see a commitment fee of five thousand dollars is payable on acceptance of the commitment letter i now put the question as many as of that opinion say i as many as of a contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leader of government business madam president i move for the suspension of the senate until three p.m senators the question is that this sitting of senate be suspended until three p.m i now put the question as many as of that opinion say i as many of a contrary opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it well the senate has been suspended for lunch at this time and for the morning session so far we've heard all of the senators who made presentations including the new senator senator shelton daniel who was sworn in today with will be temporary um also of course well we didn't have any presentations as such from the independent senators but certainly the the opposition senators did make some presentations and they spoke on the on the the bill that you just heard three thousand five guarantee actually of three thousand five i said three thousand i'm sorry it is three million five hundred thousand dollars to guarantee a loan on behalf of the saint jude hospital and for you know lots of works and operations of that that hospital as a one me you can make by guarantee as he wants them to you guys see what a little bit of saint jude po epi operation not any senator nef bomatians as a senator shelton daniel quick one plus basically and they sent it so fast at government is present as a senator polin polin antoine qui has so business business government eq also senator lisa jahaway qui preprezant jodia so nukhadi view his here uh yone at these edges me మాలా నినిండినిమౡినిండిలౚలినినిమాండిలానిలిలా, వారినిండిలాలూడినిండిలిక౿మటి.