 Okay, we're back live here in Silicon Valley, California. This is SiliconANGLE.tv's theCUBE, our flagship program, we go out to the events and they distract us from the noise. This is a special broadcast that brocades headquarters in California at the Brocade Technology Analyst Day, and we're here at Rob Vitsky and Stu Miniman with Wikibon. Rob, welcome to theCUBE. You're with Internet too, so you know a little bit about the internet and going back in terms of all the challenges of interconnection now evolve to a fully connected world. And so one, first question I have for you is, how does Brocade fit into all this future networking? Obviously Ethernet is now being the preferred platform extending out over the years. Give us your update on Internet too and why Brocade today. Sure, so Internet too was formed by leading research universities in 1996 to make sure there was always a sandbox for the next generation of the internet. And what we've been really focusing on in the last year or so is how to introduce massive amounts of bandwidth band that's abundant again and take advantage of innovations like SDN to reopen the network for innovation, to rethink about the way applications interact with the network and how bandwidth can allow applications to do new and creative things. Brocade's part of that story in the new national innovation platform we're building. We're building a national layer two network, 100 gig backbone, SDN enabled between about 30 locations across the country. Brocade's one of the key partners in providing the technology for that. I wrote a, I guess it wasn't really a blog post back in the day, but back in 2001 we were doing some work around pre-Wi-Fi, long range wireless, which ended up becoming Wi-Max and now Wi-Fi. Called broadband starvation was the name of the web post, if you will. Talking about the freedom of what Internet can provide to people. Obviously more broadband, more freedom. So we're back to an era where today the iPhone was long, iPhone five was introduced and one of the big features was LTE, which is basically like, okay, more bandwidth, right? So obviously bandwidth equals freedom, bandwidth equals education, bandwidth equals a lot of good things. So that being said, what's your perspective around this new modern era of networking and software infrastructure? Because now the networking is converging with virtual machines. You mentioned sandbox that implies developers and or innovation. So share with us your view of software infrastructure. Why is software playing such a big role and why is SDN so hot right now? So I think one of the things we've been thinking about is we've introduced this new eight-terabit national network with 100 gig waves on it. Is the era of innovation where things really changed and moved quickly. Or era where we had two things happening really. We had abundance of bandwidth as opposed to bandwidth scarcity. And we had folks who were able to innovate. My boss tells a story about on a Friday afternoon someone said to one of his engineers, you'll never get video to work over IP. And that guy came back in on a Monday morning with a set of code loaded into the network stack and showed them the prototype of video over IP. We haven't had the ability to do that kind of innovation with massive bandwidth in a long time because the network stack has closed up. So for us, this inflection point of SDN and 100 gigabit kind of reopens the opportunity for innovation in a way we haven't seen in a long time. What cutting edge things can you point to right now that's really a leading trend that you can say this is an example of what could happen in the next decade? So I think you touched on it. Clearly virtualization of computing clusters and much tighter integration of the network with storage and compute and visualization are something that has already made a huge difference and will continue to do so. The Higgs boson that was announced just a couple weeks ago as the discovery in the physics community is the result of a massive parallel grid computing system run over networks like internet too and also building on innovations like the mosaic browser that was innovative and created by those guys at NCSA to visualize physics data out of CERN a generation ago. So I think those kind of innovations are exactly what we're about. And again, we see SDN as a gateway to that. So given let me ask a little philosophical question obviously in the academic community where you guys have been a key part of connecting the key institutions that are doing high end research. Computing power, HPC, high performance computing has always been in the academic world from looking at curing cancer to oil and gas simulations a lot of simulation type high end computing but now you've got network bandwidth. What kind of effect does that mean for creativity and developers? Well, so I think one of the things that we're going to see just to follow on that story about the academic community being the only place where high performance computing and high bandwidth is available. I think we saw an example of a gene sequencer that fits in the palm of your hand that would allow you to pump out huge amounts of data on a personal basis, one time use gene sequencer. Those kinds of things are going to be on networks and it's going to force applications developers just think about how to transport that data, how to store it, how to sort it, how to authenticate it in a way they never have to deal with and they scale they've never had to deal with before. And so you come back to what does it mean to the network folks? Well, we need the network to just be an extension of that application solution set as opposed to be a black box that's set apart into the side of those applications. With good comes the ugly, right? So let's go to the dark side and talk about when you have abundance of bandwidth and abundance of high performance computing the bad guys can compute passwords and now you have open security challenges. So how are you guys looking at that and saying okay, maybe network virtualization can be a solution for security? By bounding the platform, we were talking with Broke about their ASIC strategy. So you've got all kinds of new innovations around kind of things happening at the network all the way through the application. How do you guys look at the bad guys now? Because obviously there's some stuff going on in the dark side as well. Yeah, well, so one of the things I should say is internet too is the platform for these innovations. The campuses and the researchers and the corporate partners are the ones who are actually inventing this stuff. I think it's probably true that we've had an aha moment in the last year or two where folks have said, boy, this SDN thing could really change things. It's a new paradigm to think about networks. I'm not sure we've had an aha moment in the security space yet. Where we said- Well maybe it's aha, this is a real deal. We're going to get used to it. It's not bad. And so one of two things happen is we have a catastrophic event or someone comes up with a new paradigm and hopefully these networks and the new capabilities we have will be a place where they can actually innovate and create a solution to that new paradigm. All right, so Rob, I could focus on the tech for a second here, talk about the networking gear. Most of the customers I talk to and even the service providers are still going through that one to 10 gigabit transition. You guys are doing 100 gig. Pricing is, I mean, to be honest, very expensive at this point and there's research to go beyond. I mean, we were talking off camera beforehand about things like Terabit Ethernet. I remember three, four years ago, I went to an Ethernet summit and they were saying there's 10 companies in the world that need Terabit Ethernet now. It's Google, Facebook, some of the internet guys, kind of like yourself. So can you lay out for us, what do you see as a user of 100 gig? What's the maturity level? What are the biggest challenges you have? And we always need more bandwidth, but how fast is it driving in your environment and what are you seeing in that space? So we're in this really lucky position and we're the tip of the spear and our network serves a pre-market space where folks can try things out. The maturity of the 100 gig gear is really good. The 100 gig transponders that are our optical network seem to be rock solid. The 100 gig ports that are on several different vendors that we're using in our network seem to be rock solid. And in terms of supporting big flows across 100 gig interfaces, it seems to work. So I think that all works out on the commercial side, you ask the question about pricing. Again, we have the luxury of serving a very small community and focusing on hundreds of ports, not thousands or millions. And so we're being aggressive about pushing 100 gig ports out and making them as available as 10 gig ports so that folks will get on early adopters, but that's really the space we're in trying to encourage that. Okay, and you're starting to look forward past the 100 gig. Where do you see that today? So one of the things we've done in the last year or so is we've acquired a dark fiber capability with our own optical kit and absolutely, whether it's 200, 400 or terabit capabilities, we already have folks who are saying that they'd like to be able to have terabit capabilities within two years. One of our major partners in building this network, the Department of Energy's ESNet that connects all the national labs is clearly looking at terabit within a short period of time. Any interaction with, you know, talk about broadband, what's going on in the marketplace? Google made quite a big splash recently. Do you guys play in that space at all or what's the relationship? So there's some real synergies between the research and education community, which typically is the tip of the spear in terms of new deployments of broadband technology. You think about Ethernet in the dorm rooms being hundreds of thousands of ports of Ethernet in a time where dial-up was commonplace in the home. You know, the same thing is true today with next generation SDN, 10 gig and 100 gig technologies and wireless too. There are communities like Chattanooga, Tennessee, the Utopia Project in Utah that are thinking about how they leverage bandwidth abundance and think about technologies like SDN to introduce network innovation in communities. And clearly what Google's doing is a piece of that as well. There's a project sponsored by the White House called US Ignite, which actually has a program to incent applications development in communities related to SDN technologies. And the Mozilla Foundation in US Ignite are doing a lot of work in that space. So there's always a big conversation around net neutrality, obviously, and getting broadband. I mean, everyone wants broadband in every home at the highest speeds. There's always a talk of the US not as competitive as some other nations which we need to work on. And that's certainly that. But the balance between private and public funding and or deployment has been a big challenge hence the Google Fiber Project, which I think is just a policy gambit to kind of force the existing incumbents to move faster. Because again, Google makes more money if there's faster bandwidth because there's more clicks per second in their ads than ever before. And I'll see you with video and everything else. So where are we on the spectrum of success? I mean, obviously, you got Comcast, you got Verizon, you got the telcos. You know, we've seen the battleground of C-Lex back in the day. We saw what was happening with wireless. And today it's even amplified even further with Verizon, LTE, and AT&T. And now the iPhone 5 supporting LTE. It's obviously good that it's going that way. But those guys still got to run their base stages and connect to some backhaul. So there's all this stuff going on. So sort out for the people out there, where are we with national meaning, not government, but just overall in our country, where are we with broadband penetration, and then how much work, and what are the key work areas we have to do there? So I think the only thing to say about the US is it's uneven. And the story I tell is I have a little off-grid cabin that's solar-powered in southern Vermont where I'm going to have fiber to the cabin based on a stimulus grant project that Vermont telephone has received. Congratulations. My home in a fairly urban setting in West Hartford, Connecticut, my choices are cable modem or DSL. And you're far from the CEO, I can imagine, probably. And I'm just blocks from the CEO, right? So I think it's very uneven. And you look at other countries that are making major investments to bring fiber to the home across their country. They're going to have an advantage, to some extent. I think there is an enormous amount of funding in the US that goes towards broadband development through things like the Universal Service Fund, rural telehealth and other things. The rural stuff and the farm bill and what not. We've got to, yeah, I'm with Russ, exactly. We've got to do a much better job of setting a higher standard so that those dollars aren't spent on old technologies. So is wireless a way to do that? I mean, you know, obviously there's all kinds of frequency issues and the spectrum map has been a big FCC thing. I mean, is it going to be wireless? Is the answer going to be wireless to get to the homes, given that it's a trench and to dig into provision fiber? It's challenging. I mean, like you said, you've got DSL and you're essentially handicapped at that point. Right. And that's a US phenomenon. I've always been a fan of the infrastructure in the ground and I've always thought that the fiber was the right long-term strategy. The wireless guys are coming along though and the technologies and the LTE are certainly better than I think any of us would have expected a few years ago. Clear wire, that's not didn't do too well. No, but the performance you get on your iPad when you're walking around in an airport is often acceptable. It's not as good as it should be. But I still think that we've got to do a better job setting standards and policies that encourage investment and wired networks to the home. Yeah, well, I'm a little bit here in this area. I mean, I've written many times about the fact that we need to have essentially roads paved, if you will, in fiber into all the different communities. But, you know, a lot of the communities just can't handle the administrative piece. We saw it with the ISP market. I live in Palo Alto, California. They tried fiber. It's just, it can be challenging. Absolutely. Is it simply an economic issue or is it more of just no one can do it? I don't think it's a capability or a technology issue, if that's the question. I think there's just a bunch of incumbent interests that are very real constraints on what they can do. And we haven't broke through. It's another one of these aha moments. When's the aha moment going to come about how you do it differently and make it happen? Yeah, so Rob, any commentary on the education system and how we're doing it, really getting the internet to the school system out there. I saw you've got a background at UConn. Absolutely. So, you know, Go Huskies. So, you know, where do we stand? And what do you, I mean, education obviously is such a huge challenge for the US. Right. You know, what do we need to do? Well, I think, you know, the US still has an incredible education system. And, you know, we have a lot of opportunities to transform that. Internet 2's focused on, you know, really three factors in terms of what we do to service that community. Creating platforms for innovation. Enabling transformation. And things like these massively online courses and helping US institutions be leaders in providing those. And then also building the community of folks that will adopt and continue to expand and improve those technologies. I think, you know, we're doing okay, but we could do a lot better. And, you know, you look at what happened at Virginia Tech with the changing leadership there and then the change back in leadership a few months, sorry, University of Virginia a few months ago. You know, there are a lot of challenges in the higher education academy and we've got a lot of work to do. In terms of broadband, you know, there has been a $3.4 billion investment through the stimulus package in broadband networks. Again, extremely uneven in terms of what states invested where, but there's a massive amount of fiber being run to community anchors, institutions, schools, libraries, health clinics, and related government organizations. And so, you know, we're making some progress. They're very uneven, but there's a lot going on. Yeah, I think also too, you know, my experience in, you know, I've been a champion for broadband, spent a lot of my time, passion, trying to get wireless deployments with a lot of failure under my belt and as well a lot of my colleagues. There's a huge frustration around the grant process and all the work that's required to get the dollars when speed is the issue, right? So, that's one, one issue. So, comment on that and then two, just comment on your vision of the future. What's next for internet too and how are you guys going to take the success you've done academically and in communities and try to get that more mainstream? Yeah, well I think it's true that some of the grant processes both for, you know, commercial providers and for the educational institutions could be streamlined and sometimes they focus on the wrong outcomes. They're more based on processing inputs than on the outcomes that they're trying to achieve. In terms of what's next for internet too, you know, this is a real exciting time. You know, the investments we have in this new national infrastructure, mass amounts of capability, the opportunities that things like SDN present, transformation that's happening through things like massively online courses, move to cloud service providers and transformation of the IT infrastructure within the universities, all are opportunities and it's an extremely exciting time. And you hear in the valley here, folks say it's fun to be in networking again. I think that's very true about the innovation space where internet too lives too. It's a really great time to be part of this community. So, exactly, I mean, in networking we're talking with Jay Shree from Arista. She raised money for a company when networking was kind of like non-sexy now. You got Nestero being sold for a billion dollars. It's great and then with the wireless exploding, I mean, now if you think about what we're doing with our mobile phones, even a decade ago, it was like, okay, Wi-Fi and you had, eventually not even, you know, not a lot of data over the wire and then obviously you're seeing that advance. The question is, where is the infrastructure, you know, these three points of presence used to be kind of like, you know, the big discussion. Now you got Metropops, now you have a lot of, you know, backhaul type high performance, but yet at the last mile or the edge, it's still creeping along. What do you expect to have happen in the next decade? It's a great question. You know, I think that unless we get our act together in terms of changing the investment policy and, you know, get folks focused on uniform networks, we see a lot more unevenness like we see today, but I think you're going to see the result of some of the recent projects. You're going to see examples of really great connectivity and really great broadband and it will be hard for other communities and other folks not to follow and try to do the same thing. Well, Brocade's got some really good solutions for simplifying in the fabric, the provisioning and making all the dynamic north, south, east, west stuff happen more effectively. Hopefully, they'll streamline the app process and get the funding in. Rob Vitsky from Internet2, thanks for joining theCUBE. Thank you. This is SiliconANGLE.tv special edition here at Brocade headquarters for Brocade Tech Analyst Day. I'm John Furrier. We'll be right back with our next guest after this short break.